Please - Let the Jedi's Speak!

18 replies
Looking to hear from the Jedi out there....

I am a business guy. I am not a tech guy. To me, "code" is something the CIA breaks. I like websites, I have no clue what makes them work under the hood.

I am committed to building a new internet business that is going to require plenty of development work which I intend to outsource.

My business is going to require the development of a comprehensive authority site with an integrated membership capability offering an interactive web application utilizing a point and click intuitive graphical interface. This is targeted at a medical niche and the system will collect and store data relative to symptoms and system/user defined treatment programs plus it will provide the user and their care providers with comprehensive reporting capabilities. (I have an excellent wireframe mockup of the iPhone version of this system largely complete )

This web app will need to save user data to a database that can also be accessed via multiple front ends, with development of a mobile application expected to proceed concurrently with the initial web app release. I am targeting the iPhone to start with Android to follow shortly.


I anticipate using a premium Wordpress theme as a starting point and having it modified to fit my needs. I will then need to have the membership capabilities added in (plug-in, custom addition or combination?), the web app and database developed and the iphone application developed.



What programming languages are best for the various aspects of this project? What database software is best? What kind of hosting needs to be utilized? What other technical challenges do I need to anticipate?

These highly technical questions are critical at this stage and my lack of answers is halting action.

PLEASE - tell me what you think and WHY!







Thanks!

Terry Springer
#jedi #speak
  • Profile picture of the author wrongnumber
    Originally Posted by Tspringer View Post

    Looking to hear from the Jedi out there....

    I am a business guy. I am not a tech guy. To me, "code" is something the CIA breaks. I like websites, I have no clue what makes them work under the hood.

    I am committed to building a new internet business that is going to require plenty of development work which I intend to outsource.

    My business is going to require the development of a comprehensive authority site with an integrated membership capability offering an interactive web application utilizing a point and click intuitive graphical interface. This is targeted at a medical niche and the system will collect and store data relative to symptoms and system/user defined treatment programs plus it will provide the user and their care providers with comprehensive reporting capabilities. (I have an excellent wireframe mockup of the iPhone version of this system largely complete )

    This web app will need to save user data to a database that can also be accessed via multiple front ends, with development of a mobile application expected to proceed concurrently with the initial web app release. I am targeting the iPhone to start with Android to follow shortly.


    I anticipate using a premium Wordpress theme as a starting point and having it modified to fit my needs. I will then need to have the membership capabilities added in (plug-in, custom addition or combination?), the web app and database developed and the iphone application developed.



    What programming languages are best for the various aspects of this project? What database software is best? What kind of hosting needs to be utilized? What other technical challenges do I need to anticipate?

    These highly technical questions are critical at this stage and my lack of answers is halting action.

    PLEASE - tell me what you think and WHY!







    Thanks!

    Terry Springer
    depending upon your needs it looks like you might need a VPS hosting... and a single person wont be able to do this... iphone app need to be developed by an iphone expert.... and rest by a wordpress expert...

    PM me for more info...
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    • Profile picture of the author st8ic
      You want to create a web application for the medical industry with Wordpress?

      ...!?
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      • Profile picture of the author SEOwarez
        first of all as suggested a VPS is not a good solution for this kind of project. You need a dedicated server to take the workload. As for the development, i would suggest using PHP for the webinterface(s) and MySQL for the database. PHP is a very flexible programming language designed exclusively for web applications such as what you described. you want a CMS (content management system) and almost all of them are done with PHP and mysql. of course a good single developer could do this aswell, me included, but i doubt you could afford me anyways outsourcing this shouldnt be much of a problem. there are sites like rent-a-coder were you can place a project and programmers will approach you. if you find one who knows multiple languages, he can surely do the iphone app aswell, but for that you might need a second programmer.
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  • I think you need to hire a technical consultant or technical project manager, bring in a technical partner, or outsource the complete development to a team who will include that role and take you through it.
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  • Profile picture of the author ussher
    Originally Posted by Tspringer View Post

    ......I anticipate using a premium Wordpress theme as a starting point.........


    What programming languages are best for the various aspects of this project?
    You don't have a choice anymore. You will be using Php and Mysql as this is what wordpress uses.

    Wordpress is written in Php and uses the mysql database.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tspringer
    Thanks for all the opinions so far.

    I assumed wordpress would be good for the website itself but was not assuming that using wordpress for the site would dictate what language or system had to be used for the interactive web app.

    For hosting, I plan to outsource that. Perhaps a VPS to start and use a source that could upgrade me to dedicated servers as required?

    Project management, hoped to do that largely on my own as it would clearly generate a great deal of learning.

    With PHP, does it support and is it good with interactive graphical interfaces? One of the key parts of this will be really slick reporting capabilities.


    Terry
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    • Profile picture of the author wayfarer
      Originally Posted by Tspringer View Post

      With PHP, does it support and is it good with interactive graphical interfaces?
      PHP has nothing to do with user interfaces, nor does any other server-side language you may use. PHP usually comes bundled with the GD library, which can do image manipulation, but I can tell this is not what you're after.

      User interface elements are first designed (by a graphic artist), then sliced up and put together as HTML, CSS, images and sometimes JavaScript, to form the "front end" of a web application. PHP may be used to logically glue together these elements, but that's about it. The key thing to understand about the back end language (such as PHP), is that it is finished processing before anything begins to hit the browser, whereas with JavaScript, it executes during or after the HTML has been outputted, on the "client side".
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      • Profile picture of the author Tspringer
        Originally Posted by wayfarer View Post

        PHP has nothing to do with user interfaces, nor does any other server-side language you may use. PHP usually comes bundled with the GD library, which can do image manipulation, but I can tell this is not what you're after.

        User interface elements are first designed (by a graphic artist), then sliced up and put together as HTML, CSS, images and sometimes JavaScript, to form the "front end" of a web application. PHP may be used to logically glue together these elements, but that's about it. The key thing to understand about the back end language (such as PHP), is that it is finished processing before anything begins to hit the browser, whereas with JavaScript, it executes during or after the HTML has been outputted, on the "client side".

        Excellent. This really helps me!

        In looking to hire outsourced programming what specifically should I look for and ask? I assume its unlikely that a skilled programmer is also going to be a skilled graphic artists so I would seek 2 different individuals, what should I look for in a graphic artist given that the output is intended for an interactive web app?


        Terry
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        • Profile picture of the author wayfarer
          Originally Posted by Tspringer View Post


          In looking to hire outsourced programming what specifically should I look for and ask? I assume its unlikely that a skilled programmer is also going to be a skilled graphic artists so I would seek 2 different individuals, what should I look for in a graphic artist given that the output is intended for an interactive web app?


          Terry
          Correct. Designers are rarely good programmers, and programmers are rarely good at design, so you'll want to have at least 2 individuals working on it. Work with the designer first, to create mockups of the different pages that are required. Use that, along with the wireframe, as reference when explaining the project to the developer. Then, when additional design requirements arise, you can go back to the same designer for additional features, etc. I can't stress enough how important it is to have most of your design work done before programming starts.

          As far as what type of designer you need, find someone that has done a lot of user-interface stuff in his or her portfolio, but has also has lots of complete website designs. These designers are much more apt to understand the functional requirements of your application.

          As far as the technologies needed, first find a developer that you are confident can complete your project, according to their past record. Then, listen to them when they explain what technologies they would use. There is no one answer to the technology question, so you need to rely on the developer's knowledge, since you don't have much technical understanding of what is involved.
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    • Originally Posted by Tspringer View Post

      Thanks for all the opinions so far.

      I assumed wordpress would be good for the website itself but was not assuming that using wordpress for the site would dictate what language or system had to be used for the interactive web app.
      You can easily either embed the app in your WP install, or just host it in a subdirectory or subdomain, no hassle at all.

      Originally Posted by Tspringer View Post

      For hosting, I plan to outsource that. Perhaps a VPS to start and use a source that could upgrade me to dedicated servers as required?
      You might even be able to start off on shared hosting (if it has the right software that you need), then upgrade to VPS then to dedicated.

      Originally Posted by Tspringer View Post

      Project management, hoped to do that largely on my own as it would clearly generate a great deal of learning.
      Check out YouTube - SelfAssemblySites's Channel - we have a free website planning course (12 videos) - most of them should be useful to you.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ken Durham
    Interesting project. I've worked on something slightly similar in the past using smart-card ( Smart card - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ) technology.
    I'm not sure if your system will store client medical information or not, but if it does, and you transfer personal medical information electronically to a physician or medical care giver, then it may fall under the Health Information Privacy Act as a Health Care Clearinghouse, and require a considerable more amount of security than a regular website would.
    Understanding Health Information Privacy


    It sounds like you are talking a fairly intricate system, which leaves more security holes than an average website would have. If keeping and transferring personal medical information, it may be wise to thoroughly test your system and ensure that you cover your butt before opening your doors. Of course you will want someone experienced and knowledgeable in Internet security if this is the case.

    Ken
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    yes, I am....

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  • Profile picture of the author ussher
    @wayfarer love your writing style, really easy to understand.
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  • Originally Posted by pkenney17 View Post

    3. Hire a technology consultant to find good outsourced developer(s) for your custom needs (iPhone and PHP).
    * The good guys are always busy and expensive, but for a reasonable fee you can find someone who will guide you through the outsourced developer selection process. You will save money in the long run and launch closer to your desired live date.
    That's the crucial part of the sequence right there. No matter what way you go with the project, you have to have a technical expert of some kind to help with the big picture. What you call them and where you get them from is up to you, but you won't get away without it.
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  • Profile picture of the author ionisis
    Like i said in another thread:
    There are many great languages and frameworks, but you have to first consider what you may be planning to do that has never been done before. If you're planning to do something that is completely custom, or completely revoloutionary, then you will need a language/framework that has no bounds. This rules out .Net (or any microsoft based technologies).

    Most frameworks are php; but now you've got to consider if the FRAMEWORK will be your limiting factor.

    It also helps if you find someone who has done a project similar to yours, because they can copy parts of the old code, to speed up the development process.
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  • Profile picture of the author Terry Crim
    You are going to need more than you think you will with this project, especially if you are going to be collecting doctor and client information such as medical records and private information on patients.

    I would suggest not using wordpress for this.

    You will need an SSL certificate for sure and not one of the cheap ones.

    A VPS is minimum for this project due to the security issues, a dedicated is probably better but VPS is a minimum starting point.

    PHP, MySQL are pretty standard but it depends on exactly what it is you need. Ajax for the navigation and user interface.

    I would recommend finding a technical project manager, technical director or what ever you want to call the person. Someone that can work with you on developing out the project and then able to take that and get the outsourcing taken care of. A middle person between you and the outsourcers.

    The reason I suggest working with someone is they can speak the language of the technical side of things. It will NEVER just be one or two people you have to deal with to get your project completed. You may have to go through 10 or 15 people to find that one that actually can do what you need in the way you want it done, most will say anything to get the job then disappear as they find out it takes more work than pressing a few buttons to install a framework of some sort.

    Sounds like to me from your description so far you will need at least 2 graphic designers, one for the ajax and infrastructure for the interface, one for the graphics themselves. At least 2 programmers, one for the backend of the site itself and one for the mobile apps. Depending on what it is you may need a different person for each aspect.

    Since you say you are not technical it could overwhelm you pretty fast as you start working with one person on one part and then they disappear and you have to rush to find someone else while also finding someone for the other areas of the project.

    Also your budget for this project will have a GREAT DEAL to do with how fast you can reasonably expect it to be completed. Not what you think it should take. Having someone there to work with you can help shape reality into how long it really will take vs what you want it to take.

    Then on top of this is the legal area which you will need to have taken care of, documentation and website policies, and a REAL answer on EXACTLY the requirements you need to have in place for security. Maybe JUST having an SSL is not enough by law, I dunno and am just throwing out ideas off the top of my head.

    I have worked as a technical administrator for many individuals and corporations over the years. Problems tended to come up when there was not enough money to actually accomplish what needed to be done, time expectations and why it is taking 3 months to complete the backend when it should only take a week because I hired a programmer last week to build a site for me that was done in 3 days I don't know why it would take 3 months to do this... That sort of thing came up a lot due to unrealistic expecations on what really was needed vs what was thought was wanted.

    Also a big issue with changing ideas in mid stream about look or other areas. Once you instruct a designer, programmer or what have you and you made them understand what it is you wanted then they start work. If you come back and start changing things they get confused and usually end up quitting do to what is commonly known as project scope creep.

    It is hard for someone to understand that once the work is started, whatever you instructed them to do THAT is what they are going to complete. If you start making changes or decide you want it a different way after seeing what they created, that is a different project and something you have to pay extra as in rehire them to work for you again.

    All of those things like idea building, really understanding what it is you want from drafts etc... needs to be completed BEFORE actually hiring anyone to do any work. Once you hire someone that is NOT the time to start really developing your ideas out. That needs to be done before programmers, graphic artists etc... are hired and what a good project manager can do for you.

    But if budget is an issue and you plan on doing it all yourself, I would recommend talking to a lawyer you actually pay to sit in front of them, layout your project idea and what you have outlined so far and see from a legal stand point what is needed for security and legal documentation. Just having a privacy policy on your site is not going to be enough for this type of project and you should NOT get them from some site somewhere either.

    I recommend Brian Kindsvater which you can find in the members listing, I think it is just his last name as his username. He is a california attorney who actually practices law and has quite a good amount of legal information and documentation he sells from his own membership site. You may need to contact him directly to ask about your specific need and what he can produce for you.

    Also be prepared for going through 5 to 10 people before finding one good programmer, it is common and unfortunately business as usual when it comes to finding good outsource people.

    If you have any other questions about what I have outlined here feel free to PM me, I can give you some other suggestions and some experience of my own working on projects similar to yours.

    Hope what I posted here was useful to you.

    - T
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  • Profile picture of the author victorjames
    wordpress is what everyone is using now a days...
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  • Profile picture of the author Tspringer
    WOW!

    I gotta say... I have posted lots of questions on various subjects to the Warrior forum before but never have I learned so much and gotten such fantastic feedback. THANK YOU to all of you!

    Legal issues.... yes, I do plan on having a really great privacy policy and user agreement and I will be engaging an attorney to assist with this. As for the HIPPA rules and legal requirements, based on the research I have done so far my company and product would not be a covered entity as we would not be ruled a health care clearinghouse. This is because we would not be engaging in changing the format of health data collected from nor into any other type of "standard format".

    We will collect medical data from the user directly and the user will have the ability to share this data with anyone they choose, but this will not take place automatically nor will it involve changing the format of any collected data. The most likely use will be the user printing reports to share with their care provider or giving the care provider a link to online reporting. Yes, clearly this will require SSL and good security so that is something I will be taking into consideration.

    Budget..... always an issue. I am not broke, this is not a total bootstrap thing but given that I am self funding this, yes money will be tight. I see getting V1 of this out there as something in the high 4 figures to low 5 figures. Perhaps a tad more, but I needs funds for marketing.

    This business concept is not the only one I have planned. I have tons of ideas... tons of product and website concepts, and I plan to building them all out over time.

    This is why I am really looking at hiring a highly skilled and experienced lead web designer and programmer from the Philippines as a full time employee. I could then hire designers and mobile developers as required on a project by project basis but have my full time employee coordinate everything and do the actual web app and mysql work.

    That said, I may also look at using a project manager depending on costs.

    The scope of this project is not tiny, but its also not wikipedia. While a large amount of data needs to be collected and manipulated, the means of collection will be fairly consistent and the data itself very simple (primarily yes/no fields or data value range 1-10). It is key to have the data entry be totally intuitive and so simple it takes little to no time and I have factored this into the basic design.

    I do at this stage have a very comprehensive wire frame mockup that I did using Lucidchart. It uses graphic design basics I took from here and there online purely for mockup use.


    Terry
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