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Content writing for natural flow or keywords, which is better?

by mikehende
65 replies
  • SEO
    • |
I am being told my one writer that writing content for natural flow works better for ranking on Google than using kw's. I have seen other articles on the net saying the same thing, just write the article or page for the user and not focus on keywords.

However most if not all of the SEO tutorials I have seen advise to "sprinkle each of your researched keywords a few times in the content", the amount of times a keyword should be used depends on the length of the article but each keyword should be used a few times.

So which method works better for google ranking please?
#content #flow #keywords #natural #writing
  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    It's not an 'either/or' topic. Write for 'natural flow' (I call that 'readability') an use keywords naturally also.

    For an average size article I use keyword phrase in first and last paragraph and perhaps once in the middle depending on size of article. No more than that.

    In a longer (1000k +) article I use the keyword phrase plus secondary and tertiary phrases. I would not use the SAME keyword over and over and over but add 'long tail' and variations of the keyword phrase as they fit into the flow of the article.

    No sense in writing an article meant to pull in a certain target audience and NOT use keywords to provide focus.....and an article with the same keyword repeated over and over is keyword stuffed and not interesting to read.
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  • Profile picture of the author Coding Vidya
    Whatever the article that you or your content writer is going to write just write for natural flow based on readers.
    Try to write lengthy articles because if the article or post is short it's difficult to write add keywords also. If the content is long with natural flow automatically we can add the keywords without forcing.
    If the article is long then try to use 3 to 4 different keywords like primary keywords, LSI keywords and supporting keywords or Phrase keywords that makes the article look natural rather than keyword stuffing
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  • Profile picture of the author mikehende
    Thanks guys. I think the issue is knowing how many times to use each kw, is there a formula for this please, for example, you write a a 2500 word article, how does one know how many times to use the focus kw and how many times to use "each" of like 5 secondary kw's?
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    • Profile picture of the author DABK
      I am confused by your confusion and questions:


      There is no way I can write about wedding dresses or renovation mortgage loans or what have you without, naturally, using my keywords.


      And I use the keywords as many times as it is necessary to make my point.


      Title: FHA Renovation Loans for Mixed-Use Properties


      Yes, you can get FHA renovation loans for mixed-use properties. As long as you're dealing with 2 to 4 unit properties and the commercial space is less than 49% of the building, many lenders will treat it as a regular 2 to 4-unit building.
      And will approve anyone who qualifies for a 203K loan.


      203k loans are the FHA renovation loans. They come in two varieties: standard and streamlined.


      Your main issue is finding a lender that will treat your mixed-use property the same as a residential property. The FHA has been, for years, giving contradicting info. Some lenders take it to mean that the FHA does not want any value given to the commercial space, while others to mean that the commercial value (and the income from it) can be used to qualify the borrower for their renovation mortgage.


      One lender I know, communicated with the FHA about this issue, one of their people contacted the FHA's regional office in Philadelphia while another one contacted the FHA's Atlanta office.


      FHA Atlanta said no value can be given to the commercial space, the appraiser had to compare single family houses against the residential unit.


      FHA Philadelphia said value can be given to the commercial space, as long as the commercial space is 49% or less of the total building area and the commercial use does not interfere with the residential use. And the comparables had to be mixed-use properties similar in size and unit number.


      The lender was confused.


      I know lenders who do not bother to ask the FHA anything, they read the guidelines, made their own decision. They will give an FHA renovation loan as long as it aligns with the published guidelines... Which is exactly what the Philadelphia FHA office said.


      Did you notice how many times I wrote FHA? FHA mortgage or loan, fha renovation loans for mixed-use properties and such?


      Does any of it seem unnatural to you?


      Now, if I wanted to really push it, I'd have created further down section titles:


      203k Standard Loans for Mixed-Use Properties


      Documents You Need to Apply for an FHA Renovation Loan


      being two of the possible section titles. I know Yoast says you have to have the exact keyword at least appear in a subtitle at least once, and sometimes that can be done without seeming unnatural and sometimes it cannot. I do not force it, because Google's algo's gotten smart enough to know that 203K Standard Loans for Mixed-Use Properties is going to be covering one type of FHA renovation loan available for mixed-use properties.



      Originally Posted by mikehende View Post

      Thanks guys. I think the issue is knowing how many times to use each kw, is there a formula for this please, for example, you write a a 2500 word article, how does one know how many times to use the focus kw and how many times to use "each" of like 5 secondary kw's?
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      Originally Posted by mikehende View Post

      Thanks guys. I think the issue is knowing how many times to use each kw, is there a formula for this please, for example, you write a a 2500 word article, how does one know how many times to use the focus kw and how many times to use "each" of like 5 secondary kw's?
      we are talking specifically about "Keyword Density" here. Many an SEO person will say "oh this is BS" and there are a few ( me included ) that suggest this is a thing and has to be considered.

      Keyword density is not a set formula. It will change from term to term. The best thing to do is look at a specific term you are looking to rank for and to analyze the content for that term. I look at the first 4 pages in general... more often than not there is a bit of a pattern.

      So kinda why and how this works. Google and its ranking system is an algorithm. It is literally breaking down your written words into numbers. for ease of understanding we can assume it is looking at 1's and 0's. Does this page have X? how many? a number is then set.

      With MATH, here is basically less than ( > ), equal to ( = ), and greater than ( < ). easy enough... so in math you can very quickly identify an "exception". To much of something, or not enough of something. A term thrown around in the SEO world would be "Keyword Stuffing" meaning you have used the term to much. If there is such thing as to much, that means in turn there is such thing as not enough - just how math works.

      So as we are discussing here... if the average across Page 1 is about 5 times... then that is a safe number... but you see that #1 might have 7 and #8 might have 9, and #3 has say 3... you see that there is some amount of play in this. Like I said before you WILL see a pattern ( in most cases )

      If you are an algorithm geek ( like myself ) you will be able to see specifically when this became a thing. Prior to the Google Florida Update in 2003 "Keyword Stuffing" was a norm. If you look at that specific update.. you will see that Florida was really the birth of "Panda" and "Penguin" and "Bert" as a few examples, were there in function ( and not name ) all the way back then.

      We hear time and again the whining of oh the Algo has changed... and the absolute reality is, no it hasnt... the degree that they ( Google ) is "Enforcing" these things maybe... but the fact that these things have been identified as "Bad" goes back 20 yrs ago.

      ( FOR ME ) understand SEO is understanding how the values of each element interacts with one another. So we are looking at things like How many times a keyword is used, how spread out is the term, and so on.

      So lets get to what I believe to be a real interesting aspect in this subject specifically; How do you determine a pages keyword density?

      # of times the target keyword appears / # of words on a webpage
      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      = Keyword density

      which is all fine and dandy... but the reason we are trying to figure this out and maybe use this to our advantage is we have a value that Google wont find as being to much or to little.

      So understanding how many times a word appears when an end user is looking at the page is one thing... BUT that is not how a google spider will look at the exact same page. The spider is looking at the CODE of the page. Keyword density in MY BOOK, is the number of times the keyword appears in the CODE side of the page divided by the number of words in the Text of the page.

      So things like the Page URL, the Page Title, The Page Description, Imag Alts, The text itself, and anywhere else you might have the term tucked away. The easiest way to figure this out is to bring the html code into Wordpad or the like and use the "Find" function, and simply count how many times from top to bottom your keyword is in the code. then divide that number into the number of words visible to the end user.

      Hope that Helps!

      PS. "LSI Keywords" no longer exist. LSI Keywords was a MANUAL list of terms, and now with AI and all of that and the use of Hummingbird, and RankBrain, Google has a better grasp on "Synonyms"
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      • Profile picture of the author mikehende
        Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

        we are talking specifically about "Keyword Density" here. Many an SEO person will say "oh this is BS" and there are a few ( me included ) that suggest this is a thing and has to be considered.

        Keyword density is not a set formula. It will change from term to term. The best thing to do is look at a specific term you are looking to rank for and to analyze the content for that term. I look at the first 4 pages in general... more often than not there is a bit of a pattern.

        With MATH, here is basically less than ( > ), equal to ( = ), and greater than ( < ). easy enough... so in math you can very quickly identify an "exception". To much of something, or not enough of something. A term thrown around in the SEO world would be "Keyword Stuffing" meaning you have used the term to much. If there is such thing as to much, that means in turn there is such thing as not enough - just how math works.

        So as we are discussing here... if the average across Page 1 is about 5 times... then that is a safe number... but you see that #1 might have 7 and #8 might have 9, and #3 has say 3... you see that there is some amount of play in this. Like I said before you WILL see a pattern ( in most cases )
        I am having trouble with the MATH. Based on what I have gathered from the tons of research and articles and courses on the net. For a 2500 word page, having a focus kw in the Meta title and description, h1 title on the page, in 2 headings and 3 times in the page content is a good formula. Then one can add 4 other kw's, each with its own h3 heading and once in that paragraph. All of this using Yoast as a guide and staying within the green.

        Do you guys see anything wrong with that please? If yes, then how would you add a focus kw and 4 secondary kw's to the entire page please? The above is trying to have a natural flow on using the kw's in a way which makes sense, not stuffing.
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        • Profile picture of the author Blakers1
          You should look into the 'Rhinoplasty Plano SEO Contest' that Kyle Roof won with lorem ipsum on a landing page. All he had to do was add in keywords at certain points within the dummy content to rank top 3 against actual businesses in the area.

          I think you'll find a lot of the answers you're looking for if you research how that was done and check out the new correlational on-page tools that make it a fairly easy process for an experienced SEO.
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        • Profile picture of the author savidge4
          Originally Posted by mikehende View Post

          I am having trouble with the kw MATH. Based on what I have gathered from the tons of research and articles and courses on the net. For a 2500 word page, having a focus kw in the Meta title and description, h1 title on the page, in 2 headings and 3 times in the page content is a good formula. Then one can add 4 other kw's, each with its own h3 heading and once in that paragraph. All of this using Yoast as a guide and staying within the green.

          Do you guys see anything wrong with that please? If yes, then how would you add a focus kw and 4 secondary kw's to the entire page please? The above is trying to have a natural flow on using the kw's in a way which makes sense, not stuffing.
          Lets just assume for a moment that "kw" is the keyword you are targeting. The black bold ones are the ones you naturally wrote. The red one, that was the only one that was added. how many is that? FIVE right? its just not that hard.

          Just write the article... stop thinking about how and where and all of that. right now you are placing the KW's ( I need one here and there and over there and here ) and trying to fill in the words around it.

          SEO 101 - and not that you are going to read this anywhere. Left to right and top to bottom. The closer to the left top, the more value the term has... the closer to the bottom right, the less value it has. You ideally in a perfect world want to spread your Primary KW somewhat evenly from the top to the bottom.

          So with keywords in particular you have to pay attention to:

          "Keyword Density": how many times the word/term is used

          "Keyword Proximity": how a word or term is spread across the article from top to bottom.

          "Keyword Prominence": Usually done with Primary keywords ( with a caveat ) but placing a target keyword/term in the right places Title, Description, URL ( IE page title )
          As close to the top of the page as possibe ( in text ) H1, H2, H3 Anchor text and Alt text

          So the Caveat, is the secondary terms.. you want a target those as you go down the page.

          So your page structure might look like:
          • Primary
          • Secondary 1
          • Secondary 2
          • Secondary 3
          • Secondary 4
          • Back to Primary

          Using DABK's example... text, you can see how it somewhat follows this order.

          You are just making this harder than it actually is.

          You are going to talk about widgets H1 tag Widgets
          H2 What the widget does, H3 widget this and H3 widget that.

          The you are going to mention Red Widgets h2
          h3 Red widget does this
          h3 widget that

          And Blue Widgets h2
          h3
          h3

          And Green widgets h2
          h3
          h3

          And then you are going to summarize bringing the primary term down to the bottom... Our Widgets are perfect for you.

          easy easy
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  • Profile picture of the author mikehende
    Well right, I figure the content needs to have your preferred kw's at least a couple or few times in a 2500 word article.
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  • Profile picture of the author mikehende
    Wow, that is some explanation thank you!

    Yes, you are correct, kw density is what I was referring to but still what I cannot get a handle on is will google rank an article with no kw's higher and/or faster than one which is kw optimized?
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      Originally Posted by mikehende View Post

      Wow, that is some explanation thank you!

      Yes, you are correct, kw density is what I was referring to but still what I cannot get a handle on is will google rank an article with no kw's higher and/or faster than one which is kw optimized?
      Back when LSI was a thing... there was a manually created list... like a term such as "Boat" could have been raft or dingy or ship or skiff etc... But WE know each of those as much as they are the same, they are not... NOW with RankBrain etc.. Google better understands like and dislike terms.

      So a term like Dress, might be equal to say gown, or frock, or skirt, or muumuu etc.

      So we can hit up Google and look for Synonyms of terms... when doing this you cant just look at the list and start inserting terms... thesaurus.com takes I would say extensive liberty in listing terms... Looking up "Dress" and there are terms like drape, or robe, or uniform. not exactly terms you would use to replace "Dress"

      And the question being will Google rank no kw than one that is optimized.. There HAS TO BE keywords somewhere for Google to even know where to list the page right? It gets a bit complicated when a page with NO terms what so ever is ranking - BECAUSE it has a bunch of back links with the text in the link - the term carries right?

      And like I said.. a whole bunch of variables... and understanding how they play together - that is what SEO is.

      BUT all YOU can do is, control the controllable right? The page YOU are working on. Understanding what the overall average of a term in around the pages you want to rank with. Ensuring your page is not an "Exception" ( to much or not enough ) to the rest... but falls in what is "Normal" or "Average" amongst the pages for that search term. Once you are in the ballpark, you can play with adding and or subtracting... to figure out how that will adjust your SERP listing.

      But remember... I am suggesting looking at 40 ( FORTY ) different pages to get an understanding.. and YOU are saying "HEY!?!?! this one page is doing..." STOP looking at the ONE, and start paying attention to the overall picture. The ONE even for you looking at it.. stands out as an "Exception" and sooner or later will disappear... and someone somewhere will be whining/crying "Oh dang Google keeps changing the Algorithm"

      There is no sense in wasting time trying to figure out HOW someone is gaming Google... because over time, and the history of Google ( ever since 1998 ) has proven time and again... Exceptions will be removed - All these updates people talk about.. really look at them.. and what are they? How to identify "Exceptions"

      DONT be an Exception... Fall within the realm of AVERAGE, and it should work for you Today, tomorrow, and 10 yrs from now - the rules arent changing... its the level enforcement to the rules.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    No one can tell you exactly WHAT google will do.


    For an average size article I use keyword phrase in first and last paragraph and perhaps once in the middle depending on size of article. No more than that.

    In a longer (1000k +) article I use the keyword phrase plus secondary and tertiary phrases. I would not use the SAME keyword over and over and over but add 'long tail' and variations of the keyword phrase as they fit into the flow of the article.

    That is as exact as I can be because it is not a cut and dried issue. If you are reading an article and what you notice is the repetition of a 'keyword phrase' over and over....not good. That's common sense. As mentioned above, the keyword and variations of it can show in more than just your article text.



    Seems to me, if you look back over the years of 'google' what you see is that any time marketers find a way to manipulate google rankings, google makes changes and closes that loophole.
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  • Profile picture of the author mikehende
    I am thinking of trying an experiment, write 2 blogs, one without specific kw's and centered only on the topic say web design services. Then write another with same topic but using like 4 kw's focusing on kw density, wait one month to compare the page metrics of both, think this might work please?
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      Originally Posted by mikehende View Post

      I am thinking of trying an experiment, write 2 blogs, one without specific kw's and centered only on the topic say web design services. Then write another with same topic but using like 4 kw's focusing on kw density, wait one month to compare the page metrics of both, think this might work please?
      Absolutely...thats kinda the only way to learn this stuff... by experimenting. I have been at this for Y E A R S and experiment and tweeking constantly.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ali Salman Rattani
    In my view, keywords work better with a decent content length.
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  • Profile picture of the author appziyo
    honestly, i would prefer to write an article based on my natural writing flow. but i will use SEO writing tool to optimize it.
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  • Profile picture of the author mikehende
    Ok got it now Savidge4, will do just that thanks!

    To go one step further now please guys. So the article/blog/page content is written and you see the kw show up in SEMRush tracking at say position 90, what can you do from now on, on a weekly/monthly basis to keep moving that kw up?
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      Originally Posted by mikehende View Post

      Ok got it now Savidge4, will do just that thanks!

      To go one step further now please guys. So the article/blog/page content is written and you see the kw show up in SEMRush tracking at say position 90, what can you do from now on, on a weekly/monthly basis to keep moving that kw up?
      Most will reply add backlinks... I suggest increasing KW density and Proximity and the change in either direction will be fairly instant ( a few days ) if your position goes down... then revert back to what you had, if they go up... depending on where you fall say 50, you then want to again add more. you have to find the sweet spot.

      The other thing to mention... I dont think you can rank for a single page targeting a KW... it takes a collection of pages on the same basic topic.

      If you are targeting Widgets, one page is not going to just rank to page 1 if all the other pages on your site are finance and toasters and sweet tea. ., it just wont.. but if you have 5 and 6 and 10 articles on widgets - you start to get a chance.
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  • Profile picture of the author mikehende
    Thx. Aside from the back linking, where content is concerned, I guess it will mean having to keep rewriting [bogging] the existing content on a monthly basis as how much "new" content can there be?
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    • Profile picture of the author DABK
      You rank from adding backlinks, either external or internal. And from having your page convince Google that it is the best match for a particular search term.


      So, like Savidge said, play with the keyword density, set your site as a SILO, and interlink pages that are not part of the silo (accordingly).


      So, you're site will have the following pages
      Widgets
      Blue Widgets (has support pages: Blue Widgets Are Cool, A Blue Widget Saved My Life, etc... )

      Short Widgets (support pages)

      Invisible Widgets (support pages).


      Support pages are pages and posts related to the main page that link to it...


      Bruce Clay has good info on Silo structures. (Not an affiliate of his).


      How many posts you will have to write? Depends on how many keywords you have... More is better, when you're dealing with low numbers... But there's a point of diminished returns... Though, I am guessing, the returns will never go to 0. I never tested that, so just a guess.


      I do know that, depending on competition, not all keywords need the same number of supporting posts/pages.



      Originally Posted by mikehende View Post

      Thx. Aside from the back linking, where content is concerned, I guess it will mean having to keep rewriting [bogging] the existing content on a monthly basis as how much "new" content can there be?
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      Originally Posted by mikehende View Post

      Thx. Aside from the back linking, where content is concerned, I guess it will mean having to keep rewriting [bogging] the existing content on a monthly basis as how much "new" content can there be?
      I might suggest, not going in and "editing" or rewriting a blog post, but rather writing a new one... on the top of the old one, place a link to the new content with a link something like: "An updated version of Title" is available here.

      Read this again:

      Originally Posted by DABK View Post

      You rank from adding backlinks, either external or internal.
      and understand the above is an easy method to getting internal back links.

      In terms of how much new content is there? give me a subject any subject and I could easily write a new post every day.

      Do a search for whatever it is you are writing about and read a number of other peoples content, and from that formulate and write a piece for your site.

      A new piece of content once a week would be 52 pieces per year... 2 times a week 104, 3x a week and its 156... the ODDS that you write a piece that gets a decent/good rank increases with each and every piece you write.

      I would be looking at Google Analytics and looking at where each page is ranked you can then see how many impressions that page has gotten... further away from page 1 the less impressions you should get. BUT I see it all the time that a page of content on page 9 of google getting like 90 impressions means that particular keyword is of interest and not being answered.

      Because you have an existing site...you don't have to rely on "Tools" that tell you absolutely nothing about what people are searching for, and NOW you can use your sites data . to better guide exactly what content you should be writing.
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  • Profile picture of the author Soumya Suman
    Keywords are important but do not let them influence the way you write your content. Focus on answering the point to the given questions. When you deliver the correct answers, you are automatically using the keywords or the search terms being used by your prospective clients.
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  • Profile picture of the author Subho D
    Both natural flow and keywords are mandatory to rank in Google or any other SERPs. You have to write informative, and SEO-optimized content. Analyze the first result page properly, based on your target keyword, and try to add more information that is already there. Also, try to keyword naturally, and along with your target keyword, you have to add relevant secondary and LSI words. You can read about skyscraper techniques; I hope you will get more ideas.
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  • Profile picture of the author Claeshenry
    if u have wordpress and yoast plug in installed it helps you with this exact problem! for a 300 word page you should have around 2-3 keywords.
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    • Profile picture of the author DABK
      No, it does not help. It looks like it does, I know, but it oversimplifies things.


      It all has to do with the whole environment: look at what the top 3 positions do (it's not the same across industries and keywords), then do what they do, even if it contradicts Yoast's suggestions.


      Originally Posted by Claeshenry View Post

      if u have wordpress and yoast plug in installed it helps you with this exact problem! for a 300 word page you should have around 2-3 keywords.
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      • Profile picture of the author mikehende
        Originally Posted by DABK View Post

        No, it does not help. It looks like it does, I know, but it oversimplifies things.


        It all has to do with the whole environment: look at what the top 3 positions do (it's not the same across industries and keywords), then do what they do, even if it contradicts Yoast's suggestions.
        I am about to do the above [thanks]. First is there any tool available in which you can enter YOUR site's url and get a listing of every kw you are ranking for on Google? I tried SEMRush but it does not show some kw's which I am seeing from my own searches.
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        • Profile picture of the author DABK
          Hi to Google webmaster tools. Google will list there every word or phrase that got a page from your site to show up in the SERPs.


          And tell you the average position for the period

          Which means, check often.
          For some keywords appear at #204 only once every few weeks. (Not enough searches or competition keeps doing things.)

          No keyword tool is going to catch all keyword ranks.

          Google webmaster tools and analytics, can get you a good idea. If you want more, use more than one tool to check. Combined, they will give you a bit more. But why do you need to know every single keyword you rank for?

          Check for the ones you want to rank for. Use The webmaster tools to see additional ones and see if you could move those up (write a post for them, if you do not have one; improve SEO, if you already have a post/page for that keyword).

          Originally Posted by mikehende View Post

          I am about to do the above [thanks]. First is there any tool available in which you can enter YOUR site's url and get a listing of every kw you are ranking for on Google? I tried SEMRush but it does not show some kw's which I am seeing from my own searches.
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  • Profile picture of the author Khondoker Asim Arman
    It's also about quality and readability in content writing, not just optimizing keywords. Instead of writing for search engines, you should write for your reader (your target audience) and their search intent. As a result, using an exact SEO term -- especially repeatedly -- isn't always the ideal strategy, as it can make your material clunky or signal to your readers that you're writing for SEO rather than for them.
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  • Profile picture of the author Old Molases
    Natural flow matters the most. The new core vital update laid great emphasis on customer experience. Not only, average time spent on a website by a user also contributes to higher rankings.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    I have a simple question. Your keyword questions have been answered above - you've had some good advice.

    You started this thread on Feb 4 - today is Feb 10....almost a week.

    In that 6 days - how much NEW content have you written? How many articles on your blog have you updated?

    A new piece of content once a week would be 52 pieces per year... 2 times a week 104, 3x a week and its 156... the ODDS that you write a piece that gets a decent/good rank increases with each and every piece you write.
    You can still be planning and learning and testing while you add new content to your blog....but you NEED to be adding content. The more blog posts you write, the easier it becomes to write them.
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  • Profile picture of the author mikehende
    I had a new landing page of 350 words rewritten to approx. 2600 words and same deal for web design page.
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      Originally Posted by mikehende View Post

      I had a new landing page of 350 words rewritten to approx. 2600 words and same deal for web design page.
      TAKE THAT @Kay King!!!! LOL

      someone that is actually doing, and not puttering... Im in shock
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  • Profile picture of the author spartan14
    I think its a good idea to write naturaly and insert some keywords in the paragraps .Focusing too much on keywords its not good also writing article with less keywords its not good
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  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    had a new landing page of 350 words rewritten to approx. 2600 words and same deal for web design page.
    Yay, you - that is exactly what I wanted to hear....keep it going.

    If you run short of ideas for your niche (topics for articles, that is) I've found two sources that always get me back on track are:

    1. magazine racks in grocery stores

    Every magazine (and it seems every niche has its own publications) lists the 'features' of the month on its cover....those topics are what the publisher thinks are 'hot topics' for the niche. You can get some good ideas without buying a thing.

    If nothing else - you will notice topics repeated on multiple magazine covers....and might be good to try to relate your niche as it applies to those popular topics.

    2. the old fashioned library

    I've had topics I've written hundreds of articles for - and in a few cases, over a thousand articles. When i had a dry patch and ran out of ideas...I'd go to the library, pull books on the topic and just sit there leafing through and finding new sub-niches and new ways at looking at the topic. I would make notes, go home and start writing again.

    Sounds old school - and it is....but it works for me every time. I know other writers who do the same when they get stuck or feel their content is getting stale.

    If you have a strong keyword and want multiple articles using THAT keyword - approaching the topic from a different viewpoint, or having a new story to tell....can make the writing easier.
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      1. magazine racks in grocery stores

      Every magazine (and it seems every niche has its own publications) lists the 'features' of the month on its cover....those topics are what the publisher thinks are 'hot topics' for the niche. You can get some good ideas without buying a thing.

      If nothing else - you will notice topics repeated on multiple magazine covers....and might be good to try to relate your niche as it applies to those popular topics.
      I use Magazine apps this is my favorite right now ( https://us.readly.com/ ) $10 a month
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  • Profile picture of the author mikehende
    Well guys, I didn't bother you all here for nought. I have created my own tutorial in a Word doc for this from my research on the net, from Neil Patel Blogs, Yoast Tutorials and all info given here (thanks!] and now putting the info to use.

    I am not a writer myself so I am paying someone to do the writing, she likes to write using natural flow but I have asked her to include a few's in the manner discussed here.

    The main problem I have with long content is it seems some stuff might be a bit repetitive here and there.
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  • Profile picture of the author mikehende
    BTW, forgot to mention that when I had used the natural flow SEO page without my specific kw's, after 2 weeks I did not see anything showing up on google. However, when I had asked the writer to adjust the content including the focus kw I had wanted and following the instructions given here by Savidge and DBAK, that kw showed up in position 90 in 2-3 days.

    To test this again and this time be definitive, today I am going to use the natural flow 2500 word Web Design page she has written and give it one week. Then on next Friday I will replace it with the re-written version with my preferred kw's to see what happens, will report back on this.

    Meantime, I am seeking 2 things. To find some tool which will show every kw my site or any page is ranking for. Next for kw researching, is there any tool I can use which will show from a given phrase the most popular search search terms for the phrase please? Uing semrush and AHref and others doesn't do this accurately in my experimenting.

    For example, I want to know what the most popular search terms are for "Mac Repair", the results I am seeing I don't think is the most popular.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ronan Hickey
    The two are not opposities. An article should cover the topic it is about in natural language and this can include relevant keywords and search phrases. Relevant keywords can be included where appropriate and you should follow best SEO practices, but do not engage in keyword stuffing.
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      Originally Posted by Ronan Hickey View Post

      The two are not opposities. An article should cover the topic it is about in natural language and this can include relevant keywords and search phrases. Relevant keywords can be included where appropriate and you should follow best SEO practices, but do not engage in keyword stuffing.
      All of this sounds good and great... but what exactly are "best SEO Practices"? what is the number of times a kw can be repeated before it becomes stuffing?

      I can tell you from T O N S of testing as this I am assuming young man is suggesting is really the only way to determine what helps and in cases what may hinder your efforts.

      Each and every keyword is different - I suggest it is dependent on all of the pages that will be listed around it. you dont want to many instances and you dont want fewer. Because we are talking about a "Spider" or a mathematical equation to figure all of this out, to much or to little places you in what could be called a "Exception".

      What "Exception" specifically means... is for each term there is a variable that is set as we will call it "normal".. so anything way above normal, or way below normal is easily identifiable for the ranking equation. There is NO set rule on this.. it is again determined by the pages that are around your page amongst all of the others in the SERP listing.

      So tools like Yoast or what have you have a real GENERAL method to determine density. Chances are better than good using such a tool will not see you to page 1 UNLESS all of the surrounding pages are using the same tool.

      As far as I am concerned there is literally no reason to have a wordpress SEO plugin what so ever..they are down right useless once you understand what REALLY is going on with Google, and what they may or may not be looking at and how. Case and point the post above this one... Page 3 to page 1, by ADDING KW's... and I will absolutely bet the original text was within the Yoast parameters of "OK"
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  • Profile picture of the author mikehende
    Agreed with the general idea and about kw stuffing but I am going by what I see as working on my end. I have also tested on a site for a Plumber using a similar strategy. For a specific kw, he was on page 3 and we wrote a 350 word blog with the kw used in h1 title and in 2 subheadings and a few times in the content.

    At the end of that month in September the kw was on page one in 5th spot, this was the result of that test.
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  • Profile picture of the author FaheemAA
    I think you need to skip both methods (natural flow and keywords stuffing) of content writing in 2022. You can read in last few algorithm updates. Google is looking for informative content to rank top in search results. Informative content having simple formula, means Google users searching for!
    If your content go with exactly an answer of search query by google user than your web page will get SERP.
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    • Profile picture of the author DABK
      How do you skip natural flow and stuffing?
      Why can't you write informative content that flows?
      The part of your post I highlighted will get you broke.

      There are many pages that answer exactly what users search. Being in the SERPs on page 12 does you no good.


      Originally Posted by FaheemAA View Post

      I think you need to skip both methods (natural flow and keywords stuffing) of content writing in 2022. You can read in last few algorithm updates. Google is looking for informative content to rank top in search results. Informative content having simple formula, means Google users searching for!
      If your content go with exactly an answer of search query by google user than your web page will get SERP.


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  • Profile picture of the author waseem11
    | think good content writing and use the identified keywords in your content that will definitely increase the organic traffic on your website.
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  • Profile picture of the author mikehende
    On another note guys, how many of you use "how to" as main or focus kw's please or is it a good idea?

    Like if you are a web designer, should you use as a focus kw "how to design a website" or "what is web designing" e.t.c?
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    • Profile picture of the author DABK
      Who are you looking to attract?


      People who search for what is web design are not buyers of websites. They are people doing research, some of them will end up buying web design, but they're not there yet.


      You can get their email addresses and nurture them, some, if properly nurtured, will eventually buy from you.


      Same with how to design... They are closer to getting a site but still not ready to buy.


      How much does web design cost, how much does it cost to get a web site, cost of website, Chicago web designers... that kind of keyword is what people at the end of the buying cycle use.


      Originally Posted by mikehende View Post

      On another note guys, how many of you use "how to" as main or focus kw's please or is it a good idea?

      Like if you are a web designer, should you use as a focus kw "how to design a website" or "what is web designing" e.t.c?
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  • Profile picture of the author JanicesForum
    Key Words seem to be the old way of catching ranking. Now it's more of someone' s way they use their language. (the way they talk in 2022).
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  • Profile picture of the author mikehende
    Just reading this latest blog from NP: https://neilpatel.com/blog/do-guest-post-links-work/

    Instead, what we could do is look at the number of keywords a guest posting site ranks for. In theory, the more keywords a site ranks for, the better they are since they are liked by Google. I would think that a link from them would be more favorable.
    As I had mentioned, kw focusing according to "my" tests has shown to be favorable!
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      Originally Posted by mikehende View Post

      Just reading this latest blog from NP: https://neilpatel.com/blog/do-guest-post-links-work/



      As I had mentioned, kw focusing according to "my" tests has shown to be favorable!
      Thats not exactly what we are talking about here... NP is talking about how many pages over all a site might be ranking well with. Not specifically how many kw's that are on a page.
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  • Profile picture of the author dave_hermansen
    I always write naturally with zero regard for keywords or what phrases I am trying to rank for. The main purpose is to thoroughly cover the topic in a way that answers any question a visitor may have about the subject.

    AFTER I have created a page exclusively for the readers of that page, I'll go in and tweak it for SEO, inserting/substituting a targeted phrase here and there where it still appears natural and not forced.

    Usually, we create everything for people first. Then, when a site is finished (or close to finished), we'll start doing in depth keyword research. After compiling a list of the phrases we want to target, we'll select the already created pages that best match those search terms and tweak them for those words.
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  • Profile picture of the author mikehende
    ok, that's a good strategy I think and is one my writer is using now so yes, the final article/page will have both natural flow and kw's as DBAK has stated all along.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      I paid paid a kw researcher to find best long tail kw's for "Virus removal" and "Malware removal" and she did a heck of a job providing a large list but I still feel that there are more popular kw's than what's on the list but how do I find them, any ideas at all please?
      If you hired someone to find keywords on your niches - and she did a 'heck of a job'....why are you questioning the results? Why do you think there are 'more popular' keywords? What are your 'feelings' based on?

      You may be getting too specific about your 'topics/niches' in your posts by listing those niches. Those are not topics that are in any way emotional nor imaginative - they will be specific and descriptive keywords. The keywords most searched are likely on the list you paid for. How many of the keywords on the list have you used?

      I don't mean to be negative - but could you be over-thinking this? There is a point at which you take the answer and go with it.
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      • Profile picture of the author mikehende
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        If you hired someone to find keywords on your niches - and she did a 'heck of a job'....why are you questioning the results? Why do you think there are 'more popular' keywords? What are your 'feelings' based on?

        You may be getting too specific about your 'topics/niches' in your posts by listing those niches. Those are not topics that are in any way emotional nor imaginative - they will be specific and descriptive keywords. The keywords most searched are likely on the list you paid for. How many of the keywords on the list have you used?

        I don't mean to be negative - but could you be over-thinking this? There is a point at which you take the answer and go with it.
        All good points to note, no you're not being negative. Maybe being a PC Tech might have me over thinking this. I have used quite a few low completion kw's but looking at the long list the kw's just doesn't make me think that's what most searchers are typing on google. it's a gut feeling.

        I just found this article on the net:

        https://www.technibble.com/finding-t...esses-website/

        While those kw's are good which is what my list looks like, to me, they are not "long tail" kw's.
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  • Profile picture of the author mikehende
    Hey guys, another question on this please. How many kw's would you guys recommend be used and optimized in a 2k word landing page and in a 500 word blog? Thx.
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      Originally Posted by mikehende View Post

      Hey guys, another question on this please. How many kw's would you guys recommend be used and optimized in a 2k word landing page and in a 500 word blog? Thx.
      A landing page in theory is getting traffic sent to it correct? be it ad traffic or internal traffic... I would not focus on kw count in this case, and focus more on doing what the page should be doing, and that's converting.

      500 words 10 to 15 times in total,but that includes title, description image alt etc like I explained before.
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  • Profile picture of the author mikehende
    That's what I am figuring so like 4x or so in the content, thanks.

    I think I have been making a mistake in trying to optimize for too many different kw's in one article, I am going to test now one kw in a 500 word blog or 2 in a 1k word blog using each kw 3-4x in the page content.
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    • Profile picture of the author dave_hermansen
      Originally Posted by mikehende View Post

      That's what I am figuring so like 4x or so in the content, thanks.

      I think I have been making a mistake in trying to optimize for too many different kw's in one article, I am going to test now one kw in a 500 word blog or 2 in a 1k word blog using each kw 3-4x in the page content.
      That's what I would recommend - one targeted keyword phrase per page. That said, you definitely want to also use as many of the related keyword phrases that Google might expect to see on that single keyword phrase page as you can. Just do a search for the keyword phrase you intend to target and take note of the "related searches" that Google offers up at the bottom of the results page.
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  • Profile picture of the author mikehende
    Great tip, will do thanks!
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  • Profile picture of the author mikehende
    Hey guys, when writing a blog around a focus keyword which you already have a landing page for, Yoast is showing under "Improvements":

    Previously used key phrase. You've used this key phrase once before. Do not use your key phrase more than once.

    What do you guys do when writing multiple blogs pushing the same kw please?
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      Originally Posted by mikehende View Post

      Hey guys, when writing a blog around a focus keyword which you already have a landing page for, Yoast is showing under "Improvements":

      Previously used key phrase. You've used this key phrase once before. Do not use your key phrase more than once.

      What do you guys do when writing multiple blogs pushing the same kw please?
      Yoast can shove it? that's what I think... I will write 2 and 3 and 4 articles for a chosen keyword mixed in with parallel content. Each time changing the angle of the writing just a bit... same message different words.

      If you are ranking without to much trouble for a term, why would you not try and rank 2 and 3 and 4 pieces of content for the same term? Throw in a tweet and a video and a facebook page into the mix and you can control 7 of the 10 SERP spots no problem.
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      • Profile picture of the author mikehende
        Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

        Yoast can shove it? that's what I think... I will write 2 and 3 and 4 articles for a chosen keyword mixed in with parallel content. Each time changing the angle of the writing just a bit... same message different words.

        If you are ranking without to much trouble for a term, why would you not try and rank 2 and 3 and 4 pieces of content for the same term? Throw in a tweet and a video and a facebook page into the mix and you can control 7 of the 10 SERP spots no problem.
        Exactly, that is my thinking.
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    • Profile picture of the author DABK
      I am of the opinion that ranking several of your pages at the top of the SERP's for the same keyword only benefits you.


      If #1 gets 33% of the traffic, #2 gets 12% and #3 gets 8%, together they get $58% of the traffic and 58% is bigger than 33%. And, if your pages convert, the extra visits will make you a good chunk of extra money.


      Do you object to extra money?


      Originally Posted by mikehende View Post

      Hey guys, when writing a blog around a focus keyword which you already have a landing page for, Yoast is showing under "Improvements":

      Previously used key phrase. You've used this key phrase once before. Do not use your key phrase more than once.

      What do you guys do when writing multiple blogs pushing the same kw please?
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  • Profile picture of the author mikehende
    Yoast has an entire article on this though:

    https://yoast.com/use-focus-keyword-...active=181-365

    Ranking for your desired keyphrase

    What do you do if you want to rank for that particular keyphrase you've set your heart on? Imagine you're starting an online store for horse feed. You probably want to rank for [horse feed], but as you're just starting, that'll be pretty hard. Optimizing all of your posts for [horse feed] is not the right strategy. So what should you do? Your keyword research will give you some ideas about which other terms to target.
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      Originally Posted by mikehende View Post

      Yoast has an entire article on this though:

      https://yoast.com/use-focus-keyword-...active=181-365

      Ranking for your desired keyphrase

      What do you do if you want to rank for that particular keyphrase you've set your heart on? Imagine you're starting an online store for horse feed. You probably want to rank for [horse feed], but as you're just starting, that'll be pretty hard. Optimizing all of your posts for [horse feed] is not the right strategy. So what should you do? Your keyword research will give you some ideas about which other terms to target.
      So you start with a page about "Horse Feed" and then you have a bunch of separate pages for each type of horse feed.

      Horse Feed
      • Oats
      • Barley
      • Corn
      • Wheat
      • Milo (Grain Sorghum)
      • Molasses (Dried or Liquid)
      • Beet Pulp

      And then you have another page targeting horse feed... but parallel... and discuss what has to be included, and from here as above you then separate each topic on its own.

      Horse Feed
      • Water
      • Carbohydrates
      • Proteins
      • Minerals
      • Vitamins
      • Fiber
      • Pasture
      • Hays

      then you jump into some more specifics, and this would be ONE example... but yet another page targeting horse feed. Same could be done for Minerals, Vitamins, Proteins, Carbs, Fiber, etc...

      Horse Feed
      • Hay
        • Timothy Grass Hay
        • Orchard Grass Hay
        • Brome Grass Hay
        • Bermuda Grass Hay
        • Oat Hay
        • Ryegrass Hay
        • Fescue Hay

      and then you want to interlink all of these topic branches between themselves and all linking to the next and previous topic, and also back to the primary page "Horse Feed"

      In this instance without doing to much research, I have found 3 primary "Horse Feed" topics that are parallel to one another... and 21 sub topics. Probably at least 50 pages or so either on the topic of "Horse Feed" or very directly related to the topic. and again interlinked together ( correctly ) and you end up with some retty powerful "Horse Feed" targeted pages

      ( and while im typing all this in I thought of seasonal feed - because im sure its a thing.. what you feed a horse for each season Spring Summer Fall Winter )

      SEO is NOT a one page rodeo... It is multiple apon multiple pages of effort. Page Rank is all fine and dandy, but at the same time we need to be looking at DA or how Google might be looking at the site as a whole - How informative is the site as a whole?

      Your thinking a page, and should I add 2 and I am throwing 50+ pages of content as my idea of approaching the needs for a topic... you following?
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  • Profile picture of the author mikehende
    Yes, I am not a believer of having only one page for a kw. What I have been doing is after creating a few blogs based around the same kw, when creating blogs for other kw's I will still mention that kw a couple times in it and link back to one of those original blogs.

    The kw researching issue is still a pain in my side guys. I have been trying and trying to find a way to know which are the most popular search terms for a given topic or kw and cannot find this info anywhere, not even Google Trends can give this info.

    I paid paid a kw researcher to find best long tail kw's for "Virus removal" and "Malware removal" and she did a heck of a job providing a large list but I still feel that there are more popular kw's than what's on the list but how do I find them, any ideas at all please?
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  • Profile picture of the author Nft District
    I think writing a natural flow article with keywords will be better.
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