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Can anyone explain this? I dare ya!

by MarkR
35 replies
  • SEO
    • |
I work on SEO all the time. I thought I understood it pretty well. I'm fairly successful with what I do. But I can't for the life of me figure out why this site is ranked # 1. It's not even due to anchor text in backlinks, they're not using geo targeting. there's no text on the site for the city name, no headings, no meta tags, nothing that references the city.

Search Google for - "senior care bloomfield hills" without quotes. Bloomfield hills is a city in Michigan, USA. It happens to be the city that the headquarters for this company is located in. I see nothing on their site that would allow them to rank for that term.

The first result (for me) is a site called ww w.com for care. com.

Any clue how they did that?
#explain
  • Profile picture of the author Mike Adams
    Run through some of the things that I listed here: http://www.warriorforum.com/adsense-...ed-inside.html maybe it will help.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Adams
    huh... the only thing I can think of is it is fully listed in the local business center.
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    • Profile picture of the author MarkR
      Good idea, but I checked that, they're not there either. Nowhere to be found.

      Is Google smart enough to look at some site to find a corporation's business address and automatically list them there? The site's contact page doesn't even give Google a clue where their headquarters are located. They use the contact page as a location finder, with no address listed.

      I'm perplexed!
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      • Profile picture of the author FrankBowman
        Originally Posted by MarkR View Post

        Good idea, but I checked that, they're not there either. Nowhere to be found.

        Is Google smart enough to look at some site to find a corporation's business address and automatically list them there? The site's contact page doesn't even give Google a clue where their headquarters are located. They use the contact page as a location finder, with no address listed.

        I'm perplexed!
        Don't forget, google will crawl your whois page, so if you're not using a proxy service to keep your info private, google will crawl and index it.

        Peace
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
        Originally Posted by MarkR View Post

        Good idea, but I checked that, they're not there either. Nowhere to be found.
        Check again. they are in there

        search for

        ComForcare bloomfields hills

        In Google maps.

        Mystery somewhat solved but in my neck of the woods they appear in position six or seven.
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        • Profile picture of the author MarkR
          @JoeCool (how've ya been?) Yes, that could be, but they've been in that location (Bloomfield Hills) for years.

          @Alex Brooks - OK, that may make sense, but if it was that easy, why wouldn't everyone be doing it. And why should that one strategy override the other sites that have properly optimized their site? That's not like Google to rank based upon one factor like that.

          @4morereferrals - Yep. I saw that, but then why wouldn't that page rank for the term instead of the home page, which has no keyword references on it?

          @FrankBowman - Got that, but the whois page references a totally different city, unless the whois page isn't current.

          @Mike Anthony - You're right, but my original question was for the search term "senior care bloomfield hills". It's easy to rank for the company name when the URL is the company name. This is different.
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          • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
            Originally Posted by MarkR View Post

            @Mike Anthony - You're right, but my original question was for the search term "senior care bloomfield hills". It's easy to rank for the company name when the URL is the company name. This is different.
            I think you missed what I was saying Mark. I AM talking about the original search term. We know for a fact that when a search is done with a geographic terms Google goes into local search mode. You can see the map load up top. Now tom may be right about putting two and two together but to me the most likely place for that to happen is not by reading titles on Yahoo but in Google's own internal map/business data base.

            A link to that site already exists in Google's maps database and it identifies the site with the local city. which are two of your search terms -"bloomfield hills".

            comforcare bloomfield hills - Google Search

            Check the third result in the maps displayed

            So what I am saying is that of course Google will rank a site higher that is already in its own system for the search term bloomfield hills. No reading of Yahoo titles necessary. Like I said who knows but that seems like QUITE a stretch

            Don't know if you are getting what I am saying now. The association exists most likely because the association is already made in Google maps and business directory with that location. Thats where the 2 and 2 is most probably made.

            Soo since the site already would appear in maps for the location then its just a matter of looking for the other search terms and putting the results together and voila!

            or something like that or entirely different. Its Google after all

            But anyway before you plop down A few hundred dollars believing in Yahoo's magical powers think through another possible and I think more likely reason.
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  • Profile picture of the author searchnology
    I don't see that listing from my location....could be that Google is showing you customzied results based on your search history.
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    • Profile picture of the author JoeCool
      Hi Mark,

      I checked their whois record and the domain name owner's listed address is in South Lyon, Michigan. Though that's not Bloomfield Hills, maybe the owner recently moved and updated his registration information?

      There has been talk that Google looks at whois data on a domain name as one of their 200+ ranking factors. That's the closest guess as to how I think they got there.


      Best Regards,
      ~ JoeCool
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  • Profile picture of the author Alexander CPA
    I believe you can set up your websites/companies location within google webmasters, which allows you to tell google where your website/company is located, which would allow you to rank highly for search terms, which contain your keyword(s) + the location.
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  • Profile picture of the author 4morereferrals
    ComForcare Senior Services |

    Did you see this page? Links to Bloomfield Hills ALL over it. Now why doesnt it rank?
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  • Profile picture of the author Tom Goodwin
    Since I was born and raised a few miles from Bloomfield Hills and competed against their highschools in athletics, I figured I should chime in :rolleyes:

    First, maybe different google datacenters, but the referenced site is #5 for me.

    Second, I ran the site with SEO Spyglass for a better idea of the backlinks. The site manages to have 47 yahoo directory listings (the gold standard of directory listings, not like the junk directories that most people link in from). Of those, there are EIGHT yahoo directory listings for this site in Bloomfield Hills Michigan.

    I think that about does it.

    Tom



    Originally Posted by MarkR View Post

    I work on SEO all the time. I thought I understood it pretty well. I'm fairly successful with what I do. But I can't for the life of me figure out why this site is ranked # 1. It's not even due to anchor text in backlinks, they're not using geo targeting. there's no text on the site for the city name, no headings, no meta tags, nothing that references the city.

    Search Google for - "senior care bloomfield hills" without quotes. Bloomfield hills is a city in Michigan, USA. It happens to be the city that the headquarters for this company is located in. I see nothing on their site that would allow them to rank for that term.

    The first result (for me) is a site called ww w.com for care. com.

    Any clue how they did that?
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    • Profile picture of the author MarkR
      Tom,

      First, your avatar totally rocks! (M - '79 Alum here)

      Second, you may have won the prize! (if I had one).

      I've installed, but never used SEO SpyGlass till just now. I found the eight references. If I'm reading that right, the bloomfield hills references are in the Yahoo Dir. "page title" of the pages linking to the site, not the "anchor text". I wouldn't have thought that's enough of a linking factor to matter. Is Yahoo Singapore/Canada/Ireland really that strong that they can get you ranked number one for a keyword / city name combination without even using anchor text? (Seems like a bit of a stretch to me) If so, I'm impressed. From your sig, it looks like you know more about this backlink stuff than I do!

      What's your opinion on why the home page ranks for the city name and not the page that references the city name on their site?

      Thanks for the detective work. That's the best / most plausible answer I've seen so far.

      Go Blue!
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      • Profile picture of the author Tom Goodwin
        '99 alum here (3rd generation ).

        You are correct that it is the yahoo directory page title. My guess is that Google is smart enough to put 2 and 2 together here in terms of local SEO, or at least for this particular situation. You are correct that it isn't in any sort of anchor text.

        In terms of how the site is able to pull off the ranking with this, my answer is that it is a very easy keyword ;-) If there were a group of sites where they actually did good on-page and off-page SEO for that particular term, I don't see how that would be enough. But, in this particular case, it was good enough.

        If we were going after something, like say "beverly hills plastic surgery" (just guessing, I watch too much nip/tuck), the competition would be much more fierce and this wouldn't do.

        As for why the other page doesn't rank, Google is odd sometimes. I sometimes get privacy pages to rank ahead of the main page for no apparent reason. Note though that almost all of the backlinks going into the domain go to the main page, so my guess is google just puts that as the authority page and figured that was the most relevant in this case.

        GO BLUE!

        Tom

        Originally Posted by MarkR View Post

        Tom,

        First, your avatar totally rocks! (M - '79 Alum here)

        Second, you may have won the prize! (if I had one).

        I've installed, but never used SEO SpyGlass till just now. I found the eight references. If I'm reading that right, the bloomfield hills references are in the Yahoo Dir. "page title" of the pages linking to the site, not the "anchor text". I wouldn't have thought that's enough of a linking factor to matter. Is Yahoo Singapore/Canada/Ireland really that strong that they can get you ranked number one for a keyword / city name combination without even using anchor text? (Seems like a bit of a stretch to me) If so, I'm impressed. From your sig, it looks like you know more about this backlink stuff than I do!

        What's your opinion on why the home page ranks for the city name and not the page that references the city name on their site?

        Thanks for the detective work. That's the best / most plausible answer I've seen so far.

        Go Blue!
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  • Profile picture of the author firstdandy
    Just Realized how powerful yahoo directory is.
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    • Profile picture of the author Tom Goodwin
      Originally Posted by firstdandy View Post

      Just Realized how powerful yahoo directory is.
      If you have the $299/year lying around to pay for it ;-)
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      • Profile picture of the author MarkR
        But, in this particular case, it was good enough.
        Tom,

        Thanks for that explanation. I agree that although "senior care" is very competitive, "west bloomfield" certainly isn't competitive. That's the key here.

        Thanks for all your help.

        EDIT: I meant "bloomfield hills" not "west bloomfield" above.
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        • Profile picture of the author Tom Goodwin
          Originally Posted by MarkR View Post

          Tom,

          Thanks for that explanation. I agree that although "senior care" is very competitive, "west bloomfield" certainly isn't competitive. That's the key here.
          See, local SEO is easy $$$ Just slap a city or county in front of an otherwise competitive keyword and you're good to go.
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        • Profile picture of the author 4morereferrals
          Originally Posted by MarkR View Post

          Tom,

          Thanks for that explanation. I agree that although "senior care" is very competitive, "west bloomfield" certainly isn't competitive. That's the key here.

          Thanks for all your help.
          Thought it was bloomfield hills?

          My wife is from there - have gobs of fam there and grosse point - though they are almost all migrating out to So Cal and Florida. Nice part of town out there in the detroit burbs - spent x-mas there many times btw.

          Jefferson Beach Marina and SunDog Marina were former family assets ;-)

          whatis it - the beach grille? rocks in the summer or it used to.

          Anyhow back to bidnizz - glad you got it solved ....
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          • Profile picture of the author MarkR
            Great conversation guys!

            Mike Anthony - Very plausible explanation .. I like it .... but .... "other" locations (birmingham, troy, west bloomfield) are in the Google Local Business results, but not the headquarters in "bloomfield hills". It's nowhere to be seen.

            Tom Goodwin - Yes, it's very easy for local SEO, but this listing must be done with the hard/expensive methods (assuming Yahoo Dir. is the culprit), instead of cheap/simple on-page SEO (keywords/page title/headings, etc.) like I would do it. Strange path to take, assuming it was intentional, and not an accident. LOL

            4morereferrals - My bad, it is "bloomfield hills" ... I get that and "west bloomfield" confused at times. Sorry.
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            • Profile picture of the author Tom Goodwin
              Hi Mark, when I said local seo ranking was easy, I didn't mean to infer that one should go about getting a yahoo listing. Standard good on-page SEO and standard off-page seo should work.

              In this particular case, I highly doubt it was intentional on the part of the target site. My guess is that they have not given any thought into ranking for any particular term, as 99% of companies haven't.

              Tom

              Originally Posted by MarkR View Post

              Great conversation guys!

              Mike Anthony - Very plausible explanation .. I like it .... but .... "other" locations (birmingham, troy, west bloomfield) are in the Google Local Business results, but not the headquarters in "bloomfield hills". It's nowhere to be seen.

              Tom Goodwin - Yes, it's very easy for local SEO, but this listing must be done with the hard/expensive methods (assuming Yahoo Dir. is the culprit), instead of cheap/simple on-page SEO (keywords/page title/headings, etc.) like I would do it. Strange path to take, assuming it was intentional, and not an accident. LOL

              4morereferrals - My bad, it is "bloomfield hills" ... I get that and "west bloomfield" confused at times. Sorry.
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            • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
              Originally Posted by MarkR View Post

              Great conversation guys!

              Mike Anthony - Very plausible explanation .. I like it .... but .... "other" locations (birmingham, troy, west bloomfield) are in the Google Local Business results, but not the headquarters in "bloomfield hills". It's nowhere to be seen.
              Alright! We are almost there. the only thing you are missing is that Google IS definitely associating west bloomfield with bloomfield hills. It

              A) brings up the west bloomfield address for the search "bloomfield hills" AND
              B) it states point blank

              Local business results for comforcare near Bloomfield Hills, MI

              Now unless I am missing something I see on google maps where bloomfield hills is pretty close to west bloomfield. So its identifying those locations as being in the area of Bloomfield Hills. Google maps doesn't map out areas based on town names but the whole area thats close together. I'm in orlando and If I do a search I will get back results for Sanford, Titusville, Kissimee.

              So yeah google is associating west bloomfield with bloomfield hills and the link in the maps is pointing right at the URL for the site you see ranking.
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              • Profile picture of the author 4morereferrals
                Ive seen several instances where google thinks FOR the user cuz they must think we are not smart enough to spell or type correctly [ many times true ] and its these times when technology and its attempt at artificial intelligence gets so maddening ...

                For example - Panic "Attack Heart" Symptoms keywords get lumped into the same kw's as Panic "Heart Attack" Symptons - it appears google feels the user is NOT spelling the common term Heart Attack correctly.



                Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                Alright! We are almost there. the only thing you are missing is that Google IS definitely associating west bloomfield with bloomfield hills. It

                A) brings up the west bloomfield address for the search "bloomfield hills" AND
                B) it states point blank

                Local business results for comforcare near Bloomfield Hills, MI

                Now unless I am missing something I see on google maps where bloomfield hills is pretty close to west bloomfield. So its identifying those locations as being in the area of Bloomfield Hills. Google maps doesn't map out areas based on town names but the whole area thats close together. I'm in orlando and If I do a search I will get back results for Sanford, Titusville, Kissimee.

                So yeah google is associating west bloomfield with bloomfield hills and the link in the maps is pointing right at the URL for the site you see ranking.
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                • Profile picture of the author MarkR
                  Mike Anthony - You may be absolutely right. But I disagree that this is a phenomenon that is related to the similar city names. My understanding is that Google only lists businesses that actually register with Google Local Business (GLB). The "bloomfield hills" location didn't register, because they don't show up. Also, I think GLB will show the "closest" businesses that registered with them that match the "senior care" keywords, until they show the "7 pack" of listings, if there's 7 close enough. So, if you look at the A/B/C/D, etc. listings, they are in incrementally larger distances from "bloomfield hills" - the original search term. And none of them are actually in "bloomfield hills". West bloomfield just happens to be close by, but the registered business is the third closest location, hence the "C" push pin marker.

                  4morereferrals - I've seen the same thing. The big G isn't a predictable science, that's for sure.

                  Strange stuff, but hey - it's Google! LOL
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                  • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                    Originally Posted by MarkR View Post

                    Mike Anthony - You may be absolutely right. But I disagree that this is a phenomenon that is related to the similar city names.
                    ???? Mark I never said a thing about similar names. If true it has to do with being classified in the same geographic area not similar names. Thats what Google maps does. It doesn't look exclusively at names. I have no idea where you got the similar name theory. It wasn't from me. It has nothing to do which branch registered either. If you look in the map results you will see several of the google map entries in the Bloomfield Hill area give a direct link right back to the identical URL that is coming up number one for you.

                    So does Google have enough existing data in its own database to indicate that comforcare is relevant to a local search in "bloomfield hills"? Yes fact - it does. It can see a branch in the geographic area of Bloomfield hills. Can it see that the site pointing from that data is aimed at the site you are questioning? Yes it most definitely can.

                    But hey if you think that Google is skipping off to Yahoo to read a title with no anchor text link to ascertain that it is associated with that search and not looking at its own data showing the same thing then fine. Go with it. Might even be right as thin as the premise is. Who knows? Good luck to you.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Tom Goodwin
                      Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post


                      But hey if you think that Google is skipping off to Yahoo to read a title with no anchor text link to ascertain that it is associated with that search and not looking at its own data showing the same thing then fine. Go with it. Might even be right as thin as the premise is. Who knows? Good luck to you.
                      To each his own, but Google seeing 8 yahoo directory links for site XXX in Bloomfield Hills, MI, and associating site XXX with Bloomfield Hills, MI, is certainly not a thin premise. Certainly not as thin of a premise as thinking that Matt Cutts is usually telling the truth ;-)
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                      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                        Originally Posted by Tom Goodwin View Post

                        To each his own, but Google seeing 8 yahoo directory links for site XXX in Bloomfield Hills, MI, and associating site XXX with Bloomfield Hills, MI, is certainly not a thin premise. Certainly not as thin of a premise as thinking that Matt Cutts is usually telling the truth ;-)

                        Well yeah to a person who thinks Google has duped the whole world with the nofollow tag I suppose it would be.

                        But yeah to each his own. I go with Google not totally ignoring the data and links it has in a local search business database when its conducting a local business search but thats just how I roll.

                        Incidentally Mark was the first to say it was a stretch. I merely agreed.
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                      • Profile picture of the author MarkR
                        Sorry Mike, I thought you were connecting the two city names that were similar. My bad.

                        If you look in the map results you will see several of the google map entries in the Bloomfield Hill area give a direct link right back to the identical URL that is coming up number one for you.
                        It's always fun when we all see slightly/vastly different Google results. When I search for "senior care bloomfield hills", none of the GLB 7-pack points to the site in question - the first organic result (for me). senior care bloomfield hills - Google Search

                        Maybe a screenshot would help. The site in the black circle doesn't show up anywhere in the red circle.
                        ]

                        Tom - ya, Matt Cuts, a topic for a totally different thread! LOL
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  • Profile picture of the author mark keeler
    Check out the number 1 listing. It's company that researches senior housing. Guess how many people are retiring? I have no idea, but more people are getting old. Fewer babies are being born. The Alexa ranking is 4191.

    Founded in 1994 to call attention to and award websites for excellence, Best of the Web (BOTW) continues that tradition by presenting the best resources on the Internet via the popular Best of the Web Directory. In addition to offering users relevant resources via the web directory, BOTW currently features a comprehensive Blog Directory focused on providing users with quality content from the blogosphere. And with our Senior Housing Vertical, we are creating a unique resource for individuals looking for information on assisted living facilities in their area.

    About Senior Housing

    With an easy to use directory structure, the Senior Housing Directory allows users to quickly and easily research and compare various housing options in their area. Users can also quickly locate facilities that meet the specific needs of the potential resident with powerful search functionality designed to match residents with the perfect housing option.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
    Mark You are not going to see it there. You see that it is in the database when you query for the geographic location in your search and the company name. The query tells you Googl e has the data to match the URL to the location long before you even queried.

    I'm running out of ways to explain it......... Okay let me explain it this way in reference to Tom's theory which may be right as well who knows?

    If you believe that google takes a look at Yahoo and sees a geographic relationship in the title then why is it not more likely that Google looks inside its OWN pages and sees the geographic relationship in its own data? It has several links sitting in its database that point back to te very same site and in close relationship to several addresses that are all in that geographic locations that is has "mapped".

    Perhaps Tom is right. I may be looking at it through a programmer's eyes. I'd rather any day to query my own database about the relationship with a geographic location than write an algorythm that goes out to an external page and reads a title page in order to associate the relationship and pull it into my database. From my programming perspective it just laborious and ten times more dicey.

    its especially note worthy that we all know for a fact that in this search Google is first doing just that - querying its own maps/business data.

    Now if Tom were proven right on this it would be interesting (and actually fun) because it would be the first bit of evidence ( it would have to be proven first not assumed) that content or the referring page besides the link itself can affect the serp and it would have all kinds of implications if I am understanding it properly.
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    • Profile picture of the author MarkR
      Mike, I hear you. I've always understood that if you search for "comforcare bloomfield hills" you'll see three of their franchises (located in birmingham, troy and west bloomfield --- none of which are in bloomfield hills) with URLs pointing to their main site. That's just not the search query I was researching.

      I was just looking for an explanation for how the main office location in bloomfield hills (which is not showing in the GLB) or the root URL ranks organically #1 (for "senior care bloomfield hills") when I couldn't see any "SEO" reason for it to be associated with the city of bloomfield hills.

      I'm going to live with the Yahoo directory explanation as the best theory I've heard, so I can sleep at night. LOL

      Thanks for everyone's input.
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
        [QUOTE=MarkR;1837530]Mike, I hear you. I've always understood that if you search for "comforcare bloomfield hills" you'll see three of their franchises (located in birmingham, troy and west bloomfield --- none of which are in bloomfield hills) with URLs pointing to their main site. That's just not the search query I was researching [/q/quote]


        Yeah You aren't getting that that search reveals the data that Google has to associate the company with that location before you do ANY search and I've run out of ways to explain it. Theres alot more that goes on behind the scenes with search engines and how they relate data with other pieces of data. Good luck to you man.
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