Return of the "Duplicate Content Penalty?

by Andy

Posted: 16 years ago 41 replies

NOW I know why I stopped posting here.

God bless,

Andy

#content #penalty #return of the duplicate

~kev~

16 years ago

The article you linked to is not very clear.

Were the articles posted on her site not listed in google?
Was her entire site removed from googles index?

If you post the same article on more then 2, 3, 4, 5,,,,, sites, what do you "really" expect? Google may index the same article a few times, but its not going to index "all" of them.

Duplicate Content is just that "Duplicate Content" - This is one of the many reasons why I do not submit to article directories.

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Alexa Smith

Banned 16 years ago

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~kev~

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

"Duplicate content" is multiple copies of the same text within one website.

I have to disagree with that statement

"Duplicate content" is multiple copies of the same text - regardless if its on the same site or not.

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scrofford

16 years ago

Originally Posted by ~kev~

I have to disagree with that statement

"Duplicate content" is multiple copies of the same text - regardless if its on the same site or not.

Well then you are wrong. Duplicate content is exactly what Alexa said: it's multiple copies of the same text within a website. It is a mistake to think you cannot post the same content on multiple different sites.

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~kev~

16 years ago

Originally Posted by scrofford

Well then you are wrong. Duplicate content is exactly what Alexa said: it's multiple copies of the same text within a website.

Once again - I disagree.

Originally Posted by scrofford

It is a mistake to think you cannot post the same content on multiple different sites.

This is being used to justify posting the same article on more then 1 site.

If it was accepted that posting the same article on more then 1 site resulted in duplicate content, then this whole mind set of submitting your articles to article directories would have to be thrown out.

As it stands right now, people can justify submitting their articles to more then 1 site, because its not going to be listed as duplicate content.

My opinion - submitting an article to more then 1 site, creates duplicate content across the internet.

Whether the article is posted on 10 sites, or 10 times on the same site, its still duplicate content.

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Kay King 16 years ago

If she had the content on her site - and had her newsletter online in a folder in the same domain....she was duplicating content within her domain. We don't know if that was the case because her post was nothing but general conclusions without facts. But that would do it.

When opinions are based on what the word "duplicate" means it will lead to a different conclusion as google has its own definition of duplicate content.

That's why this same old discussion will go on forever - and people will believe what they want to believe. That's fine but some will do more work than others think is necessary. Nothing wrong with that either.

kay
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- Kay King 16 years ago
  
  NOW I know why I stopped posting here.
  
  God bless,
  
  Andy
  
  Because if you don't get answers that agree with you, you change the post and take your pail and go home?
  
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  Andy 16 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Kay King
  
  Because if you don't get answers that agree with you, you change the post and take your pail and go home?
  
  Yeah Kay, that is exactly right. Believe it.
  
  Or maybe it was because of the attitude of some of the first replies to this post - rather than the content. Not to mention some judgmental attitudes subsequently posted.
  
  Quite frankly, I am somewhat LOATHE to open this subject up - so why did I do it? Because sometimes - just sometimes - the "current wisdom" gets overruled.
  
  Here is the support thread in the search engine's own site
  
  Duplicate content - Webmaster Tools Help
  
  "Duplicate content generally refers to substantive blocks of content within or across domains that either completely match other content or are appreciably similar. "
  
  Maybe I'm the one who cannot understand English but to me "across domains" implies they are looking at content on MORE THAN ONE domain. (please excuse the strong language as this is only directed at anyone who saw the original link and chose to ignore it.)
  
  @Steve missed? me? don't count it on. One thing I've learned through the years is I'm replaceable... usually with a cheaper model requiring less maintenance.
  
  Now. Since "duplicate content' is obviously a dead issue - would someone with the authority to do so PLEASE remove this thread?
  
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dave147

16 years ago

Originally Posted by ~kev~

Once again - I disagree.

This is being used to justify posting the same article on more then 1 site.

If it was accepted that posting the same article on more then 1 site resulted in duplicate content, then this whole mind set of submitting your articles to article directories would have to be thrown out.

As it stands right now, people can justify submitting their articles to more then 1 site, because its not going to be listed as duplicate content.

My opinion - submitting an article to more then 1 site, creates duplicate content across the internet.

Whether the article is posted on 10 sites, or 10 times on the same site, its still duplicate content.

Kev,
Do you believe there is a penalty for duplicate content across the Internet?

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~kev~

16 years ago

Originally Posted by dave147

Kev,
Do you believe there is a penalty for duplicate content across the Internet?

Please define the word "penalty".

penalty = an article not getting indexed?
penalty = your site getting delisted?
penalty = your ranking in the search engines being affected?
penalty = an article not showing up in the search engines?

Its like a game of football. One team might get a penalty, but what kind of penalty - off sides, roughing the quarterback, grabbing the facemask, roughing the kicker,,,,,.

When someone says their site got a penalty,,,,,,, ok? What kind of penalty is it?

So before I answer your question, "exactly" what kind of penalty are you asking about?

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dave147

16 years ago

Originally Posted by ~kev~

any or all of the above

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~kev~

16 years ago

Originally Posted by dave147

any or all of the above

The example I'am going to use spans several years, so just bear with me:

11-03-2004 - a guy is bragging on V7N that he has 140,000 pages indexed in google - v7n.com/forums/google-forum/15100-140-000-pages-indexed.html

The problem is, the so called "articles" are duplicate content pulled from other sites, like yahoo news.

07-26-2007 - the same site as above has been banned and delisted from google - v7n.com/forums/web-directory-issues/63040-uncoverthenet-com-banned-google.html

August 2010 - uncoverthenet.com was restored to google a few months ago, but only has about 3,000 pages listed in google. Which is a far cry from the 140,000 pages from 6 years ago.

The site is nothing but duplicate content pulled from other sites.

Draw your own conclusions.

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Kay King

16 years ago

Or maybe it was because of the attitude of some of the first replies to this post - rather than the content. Not to mention some judgmental attitudes subsequently posted.

I can understand that - but to agree you have to agree to certain definitions.

I had a couple online friends years ago when google implemented the "duplicate content penalty".

The "penalty" was a response to what was happening online - as many google changes are.

Those friends were earning more than I was with adsense then - one earning in the thousands and one 14-17000 a month.

Their sites had loads of pages - with the same 2-3 paragraphs and a feed on each page. Had you reduced the site to unique pages - they would have been 5-10 page sites. The purpose was (and it was sold as "a great idea" then) to make your site appear to be an authority with weight of hundreds of pages.

So the advice was to replicate the same pages with different file titles. It worked for a while - these guys were cleaning up with adsense.

And then the hammer dropped and they were banned along with many others who had followed the same advice.

Perhaps "within domain" would be a better phrase - but it also applies if you have a domain with a blog or newsletter on the domain where you place the same content on all three.

If you put a unique article on your site and then publish that article to EZA you are syndicating your article - not placing duplicate content on your site.

Sites that build using only content found on other sites or only feeds can be banned for lack of quality. Those sites get the google letter that tells them their adsense account has been canceled because the site doesn't offer a good advertiser experience.

So is that really a "duplicate" issue? Or an issue of a poorly built site with no unique content?

At google, change is the norm and I don't discount that something could happen in the future that might be a "duplicate" issue - but those of us who do publish the same article in directories and on our sites don't have a problem and haven't had a problem after doing it for years.

I honestly think it's fine for people to believe what they choose to believe. The worst that happens is someone does more work than they might have to - but that's not a biggie. There are other issues such as ranking, indexing, etc - but that's not usually what people are referring to.

For google "duplicate content penalty" referred to a specific activity - and that gets lost in the advice sometimes.

kay

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Kay King

16 years ago

Alexa -

I agree with you - but at some point it's simply not worth explaining again. That was my last try.

Look at the bright side - while others are frantically doing rewrites to be "unique" - we'll have many more new articles "out there" in the same amount of time.

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KenThompson 16 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

... but at some point it's simply not worth explaining again. That was my last try.

Evergreen questions, Kay. You'll see it again next month.

Ken
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Dennis Gaskill

16 years ago

.
Sigh . . . here we go again.

YouTube - Duplicate Content & Multiple Site...

So much better than opinion, don't you think? Even if opinion is more convenient.

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~kev~

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill

.
Sigh . . . here we go again.

3:00 - 4:00 discusses spreading the same content across multiple domains.

3:10 - 3:15 - Spreading the same content across multiple domains, with the goal of driving traffic to an ecommerce site, is a disservice to our users and to google.

3:16 - 3:17 - we like to take that content out or reduce its ranking.

And that is one of the reasons why I do not post my articles on any other sites besides my own.

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Dennis Gaskill

16 years ago

Originally Posted by ~kev~

You're free to draw your own conclusions. I just wanted to give everyone a factual and equal starting point, rather than everyone arguing from multiple starting points based often on unfounded opinion and rumor.

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~kev~

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill

You're free to draw your own conclusions.

My conclusion is this - based off the video you posted - and its been my opinion for a long time.

Article posted on your own site:

Due to the way sites show URLs, its possible that the article could appear 3, 4 or more times. Lets take wordpress as an example.

Lets say that you post an article on your wordpress site, under 1 category, and give it 5 tags. This means that the article could appear something like 8 or 9 times on the site

5 times - for each tag
1 time - under the category
1 time - under the date
1 time - on the page number
1 time - under the URL of the article
And on the home page

Then add to that, if the site shows both http and www results. So its possible that 1 article to be displayed 15 - 20 times on the same site.

The search engines will determine which URL is best and will display it. Your not going to get a penalty for that 1 article showing up so many times. If you did, wordpress would not be the favorite platform for millions of people.

Across multiple domains:

Just like the video said - posting the same article across multiple domains is a disservice to users and to google.

3:16 - 3:17 of the video - we like to take that content out or reduce its ranking.

It seems pretty cut and dry to me.

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Dennis Gaskill

16 years ago

Originally Posted by ~kev~

I think you're confusing links with content. The article may be linked to from multiple places, but there is actually only one post that is being referred to. The URL remains the same. That's how my blog works, anyway. It doesn't matter what categories the link is in, the link always goes to one exact URL. One item of content with a never-changing URL. It's no different than posting a page on a static site and linking to it from all your other pages. Multiple links is NOT duplicate content.

As for tags, that's for your own site searches and indexing at other sites. It does not create duplicate content. You are way off-base here.

Then add to that, if the site shows both http and www results. So its possible that 1 article to be displayed 15 - 20 times on the same site.

That's easily avoided through tags, or 301, or in your Google Webmaster account. Even if you don't bother with any of that, Google usually designates one as original. That's been covered in other videos they put out.

If you put out content across multiple domains, Google is very good at knowing which one is the original, according to Google engineer, Matt Cutts. To be safe, just wait until Google has indexed the content before submitting it to other places then you'll have the earliest post date. Note I said "post" date, not "indexed" date. They are two different things.

Or, do what you're doing. I'm not trying to convince you to change your mind or do anything different. I'm posting more for the enlightenment of others. You seem well entrenched in your position.

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~kev~

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill

I think you're confusing links with content.

No confusion here - I think we are talking about how themes display the content differently.

Some wordpress blogs display links to the articles (or previews) under the tags or category pages.

Some wordpress blogs display the content under the tags or category pages.

My self hosted wordpress blog displays the content (full article) under the tags and category pages.

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Dennis Gaskill

16 years ago

Originally Posted by ~kev~

Yes, but it's the same article each time. There are not multiple articles (duplicates) on the blog. There is only one article in the database. This is not duplicate content, Kev.

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~kev~

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill

This is not duplicate content, Kev.

Go to google, do a search for site:your blog name

Click on "cached" under the home page.

In your case, you have 10 articles on your home page.

The preview of "What Are You Afraid Of?" is cached by google under your home page, and under the url of the article. I do not see any tags for the article.

Google sees the text of the article twice - on the home page and under the URL of the article.

You do not consider this duplicate content?

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Dennis Gaskill

16 years ago

Originally Posted by ~kev~

No I don't, because Google is smart enough to know how blogs work. I have to go run some errands now, but if I have time when I get back I'll try to find the Google video that explains this.

Even if they did think you have duplicate content, all they do is list the original article and not list the duplicated content - there is no penalty for that.

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~kev~

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill

Even if they did think you have duplicate content, all they do is list the original article and not list the duplicated content - there is no penalty for that.

Like the guy said in the video posted above - sometimes the search engines will see several copies of the same article on a site. Its just the way things work - and not just with wordpress.

There is no penalty for having duplicate content on your site.

Take the SMF forum software as an example. For every post and thread there is a printable version. Google will ignore one or the other versions of the post.

Maybe we are using the term "duplicate content on your own site" like its a bad thing? If so - that is not my point at all.

Duplicate content on your own site = not a bad thing

Duplicate content spread out over 50 different sites = bad thing.

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Dennis Gaskill

16 years ago

Originally Posted by ~kev~

Duplicate content on your own site = not a bad thing

Duplicate content spread out over 50 different sites = bad thing.

All right, let's start from this point. If you get the content indexed on your site before you submit it elsewhere, your site will get the full credit for the original content. If you later syndicate that content, it can be on a million sites and Google will still credit your site with being the original content source. Your site doesn't get penalized for that. I'm not making this up, this is according to Matt Cutts.

The other sites don't get penalized for the duplicate content either, that part is a myth. They just don't get credit for it. Now, there is a caveat to that. If Google thinks you are stealing the content and/or violating someone else's copyrights, and/or spamming their search engine, then they will penalize your site for the content, but it's not because it's duplicate, it's because you're stealing or spamming. Syndicating your content through sites such as EZA does not draw that penalty -- unless you don't credit the author. If you have the author's links intact, you don't have to worry about any DC penalty.

If you choose to play it completely safe, no problems. We each have to do what we think is best. I'm just not seeing anyone legitimately using content as I've described being penalized for it by Google or any other search engine.

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~kev~

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill

All right, let's start from this point. If you get the content indexed on your site before you submit it elsewhere, your site will get the full credit for the original content................................ I'm just not seeing anyone legitimately using content as I've described being penalized for it by Google or any other search engine.

Not that I disagree with you, I just want to add this to the mix.

Go to google and do a search for - "Looking for a good quality 2 – 3 day pack? The Maxpedition Vulture-II might be just what your looking for." - with the quotes.

You should see 3 results: mybloglog.com, blogcatalog.com and tubongpinoy.net (who that is I dont know). You might see 4 results after this thread is posted.

The site the content was originally posted on is not listed.

Links to the original article are sent out to several RSS feeds, they were indexed, but the original was not. The blog the content was originally posted on pings the search engines with a sitemap update, and post are usually indexed within a couple of minutes.

"Why" the original article was not indexed, I do not know.

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Dennis Gaskill

16 years ago

Originally Posted by ~kev~

Not that I disagree with you, I just want to add this to the mix.

Go to google and do a search for - "Looking for a good quality 2 - 3 day pack? The Maxpedition Vulture-II might be just what your looking for." - with the quotes.

You should see 3 results: mybloglog.com, blogcatalog.com and tubongpinoy.net (who that is I dont know). You might see 4 results after this thread is posted.

The site the content was originally posted on is not listed.

Links to the original article are sent out to several RSS feeds, they were indexed, but the original was not. The blog the content was originally posted on pings the search engines with a sitemap update, and post are usually indexed within a couple of minutes.

"Why" the original article was not indexed, I do not know.

That's interesting. It does confirm what I said about making sure the original content is indexed before you syndicate it. That's not really way we use blogs though. I am going to assume that's an anomaly and not a frequent occurrence.

Most of the time the content I put on my blog I've already published on a static page on one of my sites, or it's a rewritten version. I guess I'm not going to worry about it. My blog is kind of a playground anyway. I just started it so I'd have my own name locked up as a domain before that urologist in Washington grabbed it!

Thanks for the conversation, Kev. Time for me to get some work done.

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~kev~ 16 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

So is that really a "duplicate" issue? Or an issue of a poorly built site with no unique content?

Is there a real difference between duplicate content, and no unique content?

I think both phrases - "duplicate content" and "no unique content" - describe the same thing.
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KenThompson

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

Perhaps "within domain" would be a better phrase - but it also applies if you have a domain with a blog or newsletter on the domain where you place the same content on all three.

kay

There is some kind of fine line with that. I've seen and still see sites with
a blog on the same domain. Various configuations such as the blog is on a
subdomain, etc. I've seen them ranking very well, and they have a good
amount of duplicate content between the static site and the blog. It's
just that the blog usually has a variation of the content that's on the
static site. Obviously the main content is re-written and placed on the
blog.

But it has also been known for quite some time that there is a percentage
of uniqueness that will allow content to be 'recognized' or considered as
unique.

So the 'same content' has some wiggle room in it.

I have to say I don't see this a lot. Certainly not an every day thing or
even weekly.

Ken

Edit - Kay, didn't read your last post until I posted this. You're right, though.

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Andy 16 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

...but to agree you have to agree to certain definitions.

I have no idea what you mean by this, but I think you have to agree if people are going to believe what they want to believe then I believe I don't have to agree to anything.

Originally Posted by Kay King

I honestly think it's fine for people to believe what they choose to believe.

And exactly what would be the penalty if you did not think this... honestly or otherwise? (and as a judge once asked me... so if you are saying you are being honest about this, should I assume you are not being honest about other statements? -- I"m just sayin')

My point is the only thing people believe is what they choose to believe. Whether they believe something does not change whether it is true or not.

Speaking of believing, my apologies if what I posted conflicts with what anyone wants to believe. Far be it from me to submit any facts that could upset someone's beliefs.

As for as this duplicate content "issue" is concerned...

I totally agree with everybody here no matter what they believe.

I just can't understand why anyone with a search engine would think that there would be a problem with the same content being returned in the first 2,3 or even 10 or more results when someone searches. I'm sure they have better things to be concerned about.

Nor can I fathom why anyone with a search engine would take issue with people trying to manipulate search engine results. It's just silly.

Forget I said anything. Really.

And mods... PLEASE DELETE THIS THREAD!
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VegasGreg

16 years ago

Originally Posted by ~kev~

That is/was a site that scraped news content. Scraped news sites are typically one or 2 lines per post and not complete and useful content.

Therefore Google considers them "spam" sites. That is why the penalties, not for having the same content as another site.

If you have full complete articles that are useful to the reader it does not matter (in the eyes of Google) if those articles are available elsewhere on the net.

Some article directories impose duplicate content penalties and will not allow content on their site if it is posted elsewhere. That is their individual policies, not based on the indexing into Google.

There are plenty of other threads here in this forum that prove this over and over and on the Google blog.

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~kev~

16 years ago

Originally Posted by VegasGreg

If you have full complete articles that are useful to the reader it does not matter (in the eyes of Google) if those articles are available elsewhere on the net.

When uncoverthenet.com was banned from google, they were scarping entire articles - the site was nothing but duplicate content taken from other sites.

It looks like they changed their format, and are posting just snippets with a link back to the source. This is probably why the ban was lifted, because they stopped scrapping the entire article.

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bgmacaw 16 years ago

Originally Posted by ~kev~

a guy is bragging on V7N
-------------------
Draw your own conclusions.

In general, bragging about how you've tricked Google in a public forum isn't a good idea. While that guy was yakking about how he pulled a fast one on Google, several people quietly built sites entirely of duplicate content and ranked for thousands of keywords.

Wanna see some of them? Pick a favorite song, Google on the lyrics, and see how much "duplicate content" appears.
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Kay King 16 years ago

But I just heard that Google may be penalizing people for placing articles on Ezine at all because they perceive it as a "link farm."

Where did she "hear" that? Is that why she drew the conclusions about her own site? People say it all the time - doesn't make it true.

I think her conclusions are wrong. She says "on my site and newsletter" - if the newsletter is online (which many are) she would be posting on the same (or across) domains. It would have nothing to do with articles posted in EZA.

kay
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Steven Wagenheim 16 years ago

Originally Posted by Andy

NOW I know why I stopped posting here.

God bless,

Andy

Guess you weren't missed much.
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Terry Crim 16 years ago

Duplicate content issues, from my experience are not a problem. I have seen the same article posted to several hundred sites by competitor, the content is good quality, relevant and from what I can tell link juice is flowing.

If anyone is concerned about this issue, dilute the duplicates with many more unique articles, blog comments, forum posts etc etc... that link back to your site. The more quality links you get back I think would counter act duplicate content issues. The SE's want to see activity around your site, not neccesarily ON your site but talk about your site, site content etc... independant of your www address. The more activity the more relevance your site becomes and higher PR you get.

I am posting for all that happen to read this thread as the original poster retreated but for him too if he happens to see this.

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fahadkhan14 16 years ago

Sometimes, duplicate content is not penalized and ranked by Google due to quality backlinks. I read a case about it
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Return of the "Duplicate Content Penalty?

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