can you beat a keyworded domain?

seoweb2000

15 years ago

You need aged backlinks, so as your backlinks get older you will move up.
Try doing social bookmarking your site from many different accts, dont spam and book mark internal pages too.
Build blogs on blogger.com and wordpress.com, plus other Wp Mu sites and build backlinks to your site.
Make sure to link out from your site to some high pr site in your niche
Over time you will see results. gl

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itsHERO

14 years ago

Originally Posted by seoweb2000

You need aged backlinks, so as your backlinks get older you will move up.
Try doing social bookmarking your site from many different accts, dont spam and book mark internal pages too.
Build blogs on blogger.com and wordpress.com, plus other Wp Mu sites and build backlinks to your site.
Make sure to link out from your site to some high pr site in your niche
Over time you will see results. gl

Thanks for the method!

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jclz3d

15 years ago

Of course you can, with the right amount of off-site SEO you can beat any keyworded domain. The keyword domain is not the be all end all..

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dt1968

15 years ago

Can you get the keyworded domain in .org or .net? That would make things easier for you although with enough links you can outrank the .com keyworded domain with your current site.

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marketguy

15 years ago

Originally Posted by kvnkane

im trying to rank for a certain keyword but the keyword already has the .com taken. i bought a domain and created a website in a related niche but it doesnt have the keyword in the domain, however the sites like 5 days old and on the 4th page of google.

ive built some good content and im getting around 40 visitors a day which isnt too bad, so my question is would i be able to out rank the keyworded domain with enough backlinks pointing to my site?

although it is possible, my advice would be to get a .com domain with the keyword in it. as an example, if you keywords are "blue wooden shoes" you could get a domain like bluewoodenshoesguide(dot)com. google does not care if you add a word.

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outwest

14 years ago

Originally Posted by marketguy

although it is possible, my advice would be to get a .com domain with the keyword in it. as an example, if you keywords are "blue wooden shoes" you could get a domain like bluewoodenshoesguide(dot)com. google does not care if you add a word.

this is totally untrue

Google might look for kw in the URL, but unless its an EMD
kw in the domain does not help at all

even EMD the boost you get from them is not very much

you think you can just take your main kw and add letters to it, words in front of it, in back of it, and google will boost you in the serps for that?

I find that ludicrous, where is the proof of this
this is taking EMD to a whole new level because the kind of domains you are creating are certainly NOT EMDs

there is a lot of misinformation being spread on this board, I wish you guys who are obsessed with kw in the domain , would be screened somehow by a moderator

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MikeFriedman

14 years ago

Originally Posted by outwest

this is totally untrue

Google might look for kw in the URL, but unless its an EMD
kw in the domain does not help at all

even EMD the boost you get from them is not very much

you think you can just take your main kw and add letters to it, words in front of it, in back of it, and google will boost you in the serps for that?

I find that ludicrous, where is the proof of this
this is taking EMD to a whole new level because the kind of domains you are creating are certainly NOT EMDs

there is a lot of misinformation being spread on this board, I wish you guys who are obsessed with kw in the domain , would be screened somehow by a moderator

Where is your proof that it doesn't work?

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outwest

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeFriedman

Where is your proof that it doesn't work?

No thats not how it works

You have to prove it does work

I could say buy a monkey and feed it bananas boosts your serps,
Then if the other board members pooh pooh this statement ...........
so I can then challenge other board members by saying PROVE THIS DOESNT WORK?

thats ridiculous

I have a competitor in my new niche, he ranks 1,2 on Google for about 500 kws
this is all from THE SAME DOMAIN..........all those kws are pages on his domain and they are all 1,2 in that niche, all the same website

obviously the guy isnt putting his kws in the domain, how could he?
yes the kw is IN THE URL, since these are pages
that does boost your ONPAGE SEO ranking, KW IN URL.........but google doesnt care about kw in domain

Go look at Market Samurai
Onpage SEO factors on the SEO analysis

Do you see kw in DOMAIN as a ranking factor? NOPE
its not there
Kw in url, kw in Title, Kw in Header, Kw in Description

Where is the KW IN DOMAIN ....listing? Y or N? its NOT IN THE LIST

If this is indeed a ranking factor why is it not in the list? of Market Samurai Ranking Factors?

Everything else is there
PR
Domain Age
Backlinks to Domain
Backlinks to Page
Indexed Page count
Index in Yahoo or DMOZ

they are all there along with onpage SEO Factors
kw in url
Kw in Header
Kw in Title
Kw in Description

Where is the Kw in the Domain listing ???
If that is indeed a ranking factor?

They do not list it, because IT IS NOT A FACTOR

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MikeFriedman

14 years ago

Originally Posted by outwest

No thats not how it works

You have to prove it does work

I'm just saying that you crapped all over his idea for no reason at all and acted as if it was complete BS, but you have nothing to back that up.

Originally Posted by outwest

I have a competitor in my new niche, he ranks 1,2 on Google for about 500 kws
this is all from THE SAME DOMAIN..........all those kws are pages on his domain and they are all 1,2 in that niche, all the same website

obviously the guy isnt putting his kws in the domain, how could he?
yes the kw is IN THE URL, since these are pages
that does boost your ONPAGE SEO ranking, KW IN URL.........but google doesnt care about kw in domain

This does not prove that having a keyword in a domain name does or doesn't work. Just because you have one keyword in the domain does not mean that you cannot rank for 100 other terms. It is not a limiting factor.

By the way if you think that keywords in a domain play no role in ranking, have a look at the top 10 here.

penny stocks - Google Search

6 of the top 10 have the word in the domain (and are not all EMDs) and 1 has it in the URL.

Originally Posted by outwest

Go look at Market Samurai

Onpage SEO factors on the SEO analysis

Do you see kw in DOMAIN as a ranking factor? NOPE
its not there
Kw in url, kw in Title, Kw in Header, Kw in Description

Where is the KW IN DOMAIN ....listing? Y or N? its NOT IN THE LIST

If this is indeed a ranking factor why is it not in the list? of Market Samurai Ranking Factors?

Everything else is there
PR
Domain Age
Backlinks to Domain
Backlinks to Page
Indexed Page count
Index in Yahoo or DMOZ

they are all there along with onpage SEO Factors
kw in url
Kw in Header
Kw in Title
Kw in Description

Where is the Kw in the Domain listing ???
If that is indeed a ranking factor?

They do not list it, because IT IS NOT A FACTOR

Really? That is your proof. Because Market Samurai doesn't say so?

Since when did the guys that made Market Samurai get a hold of Google's ranking algorithm? Well, if it is not in Market Samurai than it can't possibly be a ranking factor.

By the way, the guys behind Market Samurai also tell you that the number of competing listings is one of the biggest factors you should consider when determining the level of competition a keyword has. So you should go back to using that too because Market Samurai says so.

Oh and one other thing. The same people that make Market Samurai also make a tool called Domain Samurai for finding keyword rich domains, so yeah, I think they do consider it a ranking factor. If they didn't, they would not have built a whole freaking tool around it.

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outwest

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeFriedman

Oh and one other thing. The same people that make Market Samurai also make a tool called Domain Samurai for finding keyword rich domains, so yeah, I think they do consider it a ranking factor. If they didn't, they would not have built a whole freaking tool around it.

You serious? They probably own a domain name service they steer you to.

I trust Market Samurai much more than I trust your opinion

I think the reason they put SEOC (competing sites) in there is because a lot of people THINK that information is important (and they do) because they have been fed all this misinformation

so in order to sell the software they say HEY WE HAVE COMPETING SITES DATA
all the people who think thats important (and there are probably more that DO think its relevant, than DONT)
Those people are tickled pink that Market Samurai provides this data

If kw in domain is important, again I ask why does Market Samurai not include that information in its stats? Believe me if it was widely known or commonly thought that this information is relevant THEY WOULD PUT IT IN THEIR STATS,

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MikeFriedman

14 years ago

Originally Posted by outwest

You serious? They probably own a domain name service they steer you to.

I trust Market Samurai much more than I trust your opinion

I think the reason they put SEOC (competing sites) in there is because a lot of people THINK that information is important (and they do) because they have been fed all this misinformation

so in order to sell the software they say HEY WE HAVE COMPETING SITES DATA
all the people who think thats important (and there are probably more that DO think its relevant, than DONT)
Those people are tickled pink that Market Samurai provides this data

If kw in domain is important, again I ask why does Market Samurai not include that information in its stats? Believe me if it was widely known or commonly thought that this information is relevant THEY WOULD PUT IT IN THEIR STATS,

It is pretty obvious you are just becoming a troll in this forum.

Did you look at the SERP I pointed out, which is pretty damn competitive by the way, with all the keyword rich domains at the top?

I love how you use information that favors your point of view and ignore anything that doesn't. So since for some reason you feel Market Samurai is an authority on getting good rankings... They don't have anything about the URL in their software, so that must not be a ranking factor. However, they highly stress the importance of the number of competing pages, but we can just ignore that?

And again the Samurai guys built a whole piece of software that is devoted to nothing but finding keyword rich domains. And no it does not point you to a domain service they own.

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madzstar

14 years ago

Yes u can and yes u will. Eerything has said that needs to b said. go with wat every1 said and ull be the best!

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MikeFriedman

14 years ago

creditcards.com outranks Visa, MasterCard, Discover, and Bank of America for 'credit cards'.

Citibank, created a subdomain 'creditcards' on their site. Wonder why they did that?

What is really silly about this whole conversation is just a few weeks ago outwest thought keyword rich domains were the greatest thing ever based on the exact same type of evidence.

http://www.warriorforum.com/adsense-...es-proves.html

Now that evidence is ridiculous.

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outwest

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeFriedman

creditcards.com outranks Visa, MasterCard, Discover, and Bank of America for 'credit cards'.

Citibank, created a subdomain 'creditcards' on their site. Wonder why they did that?

What is really silly about this whole conversation is just a few weeks ago outwest thought keyword rich domains were the greatest thing ever based on the exact same type of evidence.

http://www.warriorforum.com/adsense-...es-proves.html

Now that evidence is ridiculous.

A few weeks ago? try almost 3 months ago

I dont know why I posted that , I dont even remember making that post

creditcards.com
is AN EMD. That is also AN EMD .COM which IMO if EMDs do have any power its the EMD.COM that has teh power, not the net, org, info, etc etc etc etc and all the other extensions.

creditcards.com has about 250,000 backlinks 14 yr old domain
Visa? has about 5000 backlinks...............hmmm could that be the reason Visa is number 2 instead of number 1. Gosh, couldnt be. must be that creditcards.com has the EMD

EMDs are NOT What we are discussing
we are discussing adding a 1 before or after the EMDs or adding all kinds of other words before and after that EMD and saying THAT is equally important

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hammertorch

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeFriedman

creditcards.com outranks Visa, MasterCard, Discover, and Bank of America for 'credit cards'.

Citibank, created a subdomain 'creditcards' on their site. Wonder why they did that?

What is really silly about this whole conversation is just a few weeks ago outwest thought keyword rich domains were the greatest thing ever based on the exact same type of evidence.

http://www.warriorforum.com/adsense-...es-proves.html

Now that evidence is ridiculous.

now thats one hell of a proof, thanks mike for clearing this out.
@Outwest it's now your time to shine show us your proof too...

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outwest

14 years ago

Originally Posted by hammertorch

now thats one hell of a proof, thanks mike for clearing this out.
@Outwest it's now your time to shine show us your proof too...

what proof did he show? An old post of mine 3 months old where I now changed my view? Thats proof I used to be misinformed? So?
I made that post before I started using Market Samurai I mean REALLY using it, since that Post I have researched bout 30,000 kws and OBSERVED who is ranked where, and OBSERVED how many of those were EMDs (Rank #1,2,3) and also OBSERVED how often (ALL THE TIME) that
domains with the kw NOT in the Domain Easily outranked the EMDs..........as I said I see this all the time. And I am not talking about EMDs with no backlinks. Many times these EMDs had way more backlinks than the sites outranking them (that had no kw in the domain )

How is this possible. ? After a while you start to notice that KW IN DOMAIN MEANS NOTHING
................The ONLY time I have observed where KW in the domain makes ANY difference is
EMD.com...............................but then again even in those instances that is not necessarily true. Because if a guy is going to go out and buy the EMD.com he is sure as HELL going to put a BOATLOAD of backlinks and anchor text target that kw. So THE BACKLINKS may very well be why he is ranking NOT THE EMD

Now I see the light
You guys are still in the dark

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MikeFriedman 14 years ago

Mastercard.com has somewhere around 38 million backlinks and is still behind creditcards.com.

And I also pointed out creditcards.citi.com which is not an EMD.

Yet it is still on the first page with far less backlinks than most of the other listings.

Also the 'penny stocks' SERP is another example. timothysykes.com is #9 with far more backlinks than any other listing on the first page, yet it is outranked by mostly keyword rich domains.
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MikeFriedman

14 years ago

Originally Posted by outwest

I made that post before I started using Market Samurai I mean REALLY using it, since that Post I have researched bout 30,000 kws and OBSERVED who is ranked where

Well at the time of making this other ridiculous thread...

http://www.warriorforum.com/adsense-...emds-myth.html

You stated you had studied 10,000 KWs. Now it is 30,000 KWs. So in the last 6 weeks you have extensively studied the rankings of an additional 20,000 KWs. That is roughly about 475 KWs a day. Even if you work 12 hours a day, that is still about 40 KWs an hour.

There is no way you have studied that many KWs. Nice try though.

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Osman_M

15 years ago

Ofcourse you can. I did just a week ago. Somebody had already picked the .com for the keyword and I went ahead and picked up the .net. I beat him in 2 days.

Currently, Im number 1 for that keyword!

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kvnkane

15 years ago

ok thanks for the tips guys. what do you think if i used a hyphen? such as wooden-shoes.com would the keyword be ok?

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Barry Unruh

14 years ago

No, I'm sure Wikipedia ranks for all their keywords because.....wait a minute......

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lovboa

Banned 14 years ago

Why is everyone saying "Yes, you can, Yes it's beatable" as if having the keyword in the domain is even relevant to whether the site can be beaten or not.

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Bryan V

14 years ago

Usually EMD type sites are more focused on and off-page, so you may be dealing with someone who's hitting this KW harder. Keywords in the domain may help, but you need to analyze their backlinks to get an idea of what it's going to take to knock em down.

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Matt Baker

14 years ago

Do you mean a keyword rich domain? Yes of course you can beat that kind of domain..it possible and it happened many times.

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LetterCraft Inc.

14 years ago

You're going to find it hard (I didn't say impossible) to beat if it's an established EMD. If not, you're in with a decent chance.

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outwest 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Dev!l

You're going to find it hard (I didn't say impossible) to beat if it's an established EMD. If not, you're in with a decent chance.

depends on what you mean by established

if it has low backlinks, age of the domain has no effect
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outwest

14 years ago

Fact is you have NO PROOF IT DOES WORK EITHER

so stop acting so self righteous
Hell the guys who are in love with EMDs they can barely point to instances to prove THOSE WORK

I can see SOME justification for thinking EMDs work since google USED to put more emphasis on them

but changing the EMD by adding all kinds of other words in front or behind it is ludicrous to think thats the same thing as an EMD..........................those variations Change the domain to something that is NOT AN EMD

You show me documentation where google loves to see the kw in the domain, I would like to see it. Go ahead post it.
EMDs , fine, they were important before, but just having the kw in any form in the domain>? show me articles saying this is important

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Barry Unruh

14 years ago

Originally Posted by outwest

You show me documentation where google loves to see the kw in the domain, I would like to see it. Go ahead post it.

Here you go:

Originally Posted by Matt Cutts

Now if you are still on the fence, let me just give you a bit of color. that we have looked at the rankings and the weights that we give to keyword domains, & some people have complained that we are giving a little too much weight for keywords in domains. So we have been thinking about at adjusting that mix a bit and sort of turning the knob down within the algorithm, so that given 2 different domains it wouldn't necessarily help you as much to have a domain name with a bunch of keywords in it.

Not sure about you, but that basically states they are giving a preference, even if slight.

Ask and ye shall receive...

Search and you could have found! And before you scream that is ancient history...it is this year.

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outwest

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Barry Unruh

Here you go:

Not sure about you, but that basically states they are giving a preference, even if slight.

Ask and ye shall receive...

Search and you could have found! And before you scream that is ancient history...it is this year.

You are assuming
that (assuming Matt cutts word is God)
that he is talking about ANY KWS in the domain being relevant
as opposed to EMDs

he really does not make that distinction in the youtube video you pulled your quote from

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

All he says in the video is "kws in the domain"
he makes no distinction

so from that you assume ANY KWS in the domain

Ok lets say you are google algo writers
IF you are going to give weight to kws in the domain , would you give weight to ANY DOMAIN WITH THE KW in it, even with a 1 in front of it, whatever

so you are talking

Corvette Cars
One guy goes and buys Corvettecars.com
Next guy next day buys 1corvettecars.com
Next day someone buys corvettecarsSite.com
Next day ................... SomeCorvettecars.com
Next Day BuyCorvettecars.com
Next Day ...................CorvettecarsRock.com

within a month you have 200 domains new domains that all have the kw in the domain
so you are going to do what with those domains? How in the hell are you going to rank them any higher than anyone else? for what reason? it takes two seconds to create a new domain variation with the kw in it? Why should that be a ranking factor of any kind?

Its ludicrous to think they would even attempt to give anything but the EMD.com a boost
otherwise it becomes a joke

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MikeFriedman

14 years ago

Originally Posted by outwest

so you are talking

Corvette Cars
One guy goes and buys Corvettecars.com
Next guy next day buys 1corvettecars.com
Next day someone buys corvettecarsSite.com
Next day ................... SomeCorvettecars.com
Next Day BuyCorvettecars.com
Next Day ...................CorvettecarsRock.com

within a month you have 200 domains new domains that all have the kw in the domain
so you are going to do what with those domains? How in the hell are you going to rank them any higher than anyone else? for what reason? it takes two seconds to create a new domain variation with the kw in it? Why should that be a ranking factor of any kind?

Its ludicrous to think they would even attempt to give anything but the EMD.com a boost
otherwise it becomes a joke

Why is that ludicrous? Look at the opposite view. It is ludicrous to think that ONLY the EMD would get any kind of a boost. Why would they give out a ranking boost for something only a handful of people can take advantage of? That doesn't seem like a level playing field.

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outwest

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeFriedman

Why is that ludicrous? Look at the opposite view. It is ludicrous to think that ONLY the EMD would get any kind of a boost. Why would they give out a ranking boost for something only a handful of people can take advantage of? That doesn't seem like a level playing field.

What I am saying is how can they rank boosts in serps
lets say they have 200 domains for xyz kw, with variations of the kw in the domain?

who gets the biggest boost if any?
It becomes meaningless after a certain point if its so easy to go get a kw in the domain in ANY variation

Now the EMD.com
Yes I can see that getting a boost

why?
Because there is only one
and its USUALLY ...THE COMPANY

Dell computers? dell.com
Microsoft............Microsoft.com
Intel? Intel.com

there can only be one EMD.com and its usually a heavy hitter AUTHORITY site, though not always so yes I can see THAT getting a boost, because there is limited supply, and those sites carry weight

all the other 123kw.com's
no I cant see any reason to give those sites a boost since they can be reproduced in mass, there is infinite number of webmasters who could jump in line

so who gets a boost then? the first to register? its absurd

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paulgl

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeFriedman

It is ludicrous to think that ONLY the EMD would get any kind of a boost. Why would they give out a ranking boost for something only a handful of people can take advantage of? That doesn't seem like a level playing field.

Mike, that is one of the best takes I have ever read on the subject, and
one that I never even thought of. Gotta hand it to you on that one.

Paul

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outwest 14 years ago

Originally Posted by paulgl

Mike, that is one of the best takes I have ever read on the subject, and
one that I never even thought of. Gotta hand it to you on that one.

Paul

you guys fail to see the forest for the Trees
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outwest

14 years ago

i Used to think Mike knew his stuff but after this series of responses I realize he doesnt

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shakil754

14 years ago

In my experience google does look at the domain to see if it contains the keyword or not BUT the other factors that are equally important are On Page and Off Page seo.

By that I mean you have to have your site structure that google loves. I always go for a silo structure and make sure that the site is well optimized.

Then its a question of building backlinks and over time your ranking will improve

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hammertorch 14 years ago

I don' know but i guess although we do really have different opinions, but i guess i really would have to agree with Mike on this....

upon searching on google, for example try to search the keyword "warriorforum" and you can check what's next in the ranking in google. So I think mike has a point in adding a word after the keyword domain, but again this is just my opinion.
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outwest

14 years ago

who would be trying to rank for warrior forum? thats a ridiculous example

I can rank number 1,2 or 3 or very high with a domain that has a 1 to the keyword, does that prove anything? nope

Prove a domain WITHOUT the name in the kw would not rank equally high?

Just because you guys can go find domains with kw variations ranking high, how do you know WHY they rank high?

Certainly the domain has ZIPPO to do with it

but
since they are ranking high..........and since they have a 1 or whatever added to the kw in the domain name you say SEE SEE LOOK THATS PROOF

Really?
Prove that the domain name having the kw in it, HAS ANY RELEVANCE to why the site ranks where it ranks?

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SunnyDelight

14 years ago

of course you can. With the right SEO strategy you can. It takes more than a keyword rich domain to rank. But it is a plus to have keywords in your domain when trying to rank hugh in google.

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SunnyDelight

14 years ago

of course you can. With the right SEO strategy you can. It takes more than a keyword rich domain to rank. But it is a plus to have keywords in your domain when trying to rank high in google.

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outwest

14 years ago

Oh so now Matt cutts if he says something thats the law right?>

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MikeFriedman 14 years ago

Originally Posted by outwest

Oh so now Matt cutts if he says something thats the law right?>

While I do not listen to everything he says, he is just as reliable as Market Samurai.
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Barry Unruh

14 years ago

No, Matt Cutts is not the law, but you asked for any proof Google gave a preference to EMD's coming straight from a source at Google, so I provided it for your entertainment and education. (As Mike eloquently pointed out, just a few months ago you believed EMD's were crucial to business success.)

What you seem to misunderstand from everyone responding to you is the fact NO ONE is claiming EMD's give a big advantage. Everyone recognizes the preference has decreased in power.

Most of us agree there is not a compelling reason to focus on only EMD's since you can rank a non-EMD site almost as easily. The difference is very slight, as even Matt Cutts pointed out in his quote.

Most of the teachers I trust in the field have been pointing that fact out repeatedly over the last many months, but still agree there is a "slight" advantage.

What you seem to misunderstand is you have an inability to take criticism and to learn...but that's just my observation...and it is not the law either.

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outwest

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Barry Unruh

No, Matt Cutts is not the law, but you asked for any proof Google gave a preference to EMD's coming straight from a source at Google, so I provided it for your entertainment and education. (As Mike eloquently pointed out, just a few months ago you believed EMD's were crucial to business success.)

What you seem to misunderstand from everyone responding to you is the fact NO ONE is claiming EMD's give a big advantage. Everyone recognizes the preference has decreased in power.

Most of us agree there is not a compelling reason to focus on only EMD's since you can rank a non-EMD site almost as easily. The difference is very slight, as even Matt Cutts pointed out in his quote.

Most of the teachers I trust in the field have been pointing that fact out repeatedly over the last many months, but still agree there is a "slight" advantage.

What you seem to misunderstand is you have an inability to take criticism and to learn...but that's just my observation...and it is not the law either.

First of all that video is not new in fact I think it came out before Panda whatever the big one in May I think. (wasnt it May) or June whatever everyone cried about

Also he said nothing about EMDs in that quote or that video, go watch the video

There is a very good possibility that with the new Panda updates EMDs are no longer given any weight, considering the video is about 6 mos old

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Barry Unruh

14 years ago

Originally Posted by outwest

Also he said nothing about EMDs in that quote or that video, go watch the video

There is a very good possibility that with the new Panda updates EMDs are no longer given any weight, considering the video is about 6 mos old

I have watched the video, and read the text of the video.. Please look at this line once again:

"we have looked at the rankings and the weights that we give to keyword domains"

I'll agree he did not say EXACT...and he actually states we should not worry about it...but you keep arguing a point for the sake of argument without any substantial proof. Do I have any proof? Not at all, because I already stated the advantage is slight.

I have in other threads made it clear I will choose an EMD if it makes sense for the market and it is available. The one thing you have made clear in this thread is quite simple. You must either be 100% right, or......oh wait, there was not another option.

And since you asked for proof of our position, from Google...I now respectfully ask you to post yours. No more "I think"...Your proof sir...from Google's own mouth, but of course..you don't have it in any more clarity than we do. Which yes...does mean I realize there is just as much chance Matt is blowing smoke as telling the truth.

And on that note...I'm done with this thread, because it is truly a waste of my time. I'll come back and read your entertaining explanations...because that part is fun...ny

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dukestravels1972

14 years ago

Slightly off-topic here. But can someone tell me if using a hyphen to separate words in a keyword domain is just as good as having the desired (but taken) keyword domain url?

I took a chance and bought a two word keyword that is separated this way, because allinurl searches "in quotes" for it came up with both in top 5.

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KimboJim

14 years ago

EMDs add some power to the domain, but a lot of people exaggerate its power. Google uses about 100-200 different factors when figuring out who should by one top. While and EMD is one of those factors, I don't think it's all that important. Will it help? Yes. Will it guarantee you a top spot or make that domain invincible? Absolutely not.

The biggest factor is a good mix of NoFollow and DoFollow backlinks. Just keep pushing those to your website, and you'll be at the top in no time (that is, if you have good content).

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xnice

14 years ago

If you have enough back links, you can beat any keyword domain. Normally the EMD has a little back links, you can pass them anytime. Forget about what people say, you can make a case study by yourself and see results.

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outwest

14 years ago

Originally Posted by xnice

If you have enough back links, you can beat any keyword domain. Normally the EMD has a little back links, you can pass them anytime. Forget about what people say, you can make a case study by yourself and see results.

you guys are I assume talking about EMDs which
I do not dispute , have SOME benefit, (although very small)

what I am objecting to is these guys saying ANY KW IN ANY COMBINATION in the domain, even 1kw.com has anything worth mentioning as far as a boost (comparable to an EMD boost, which is small)

If you start butchering the domain to where its no longer an EMD? ya that helps in the rankings a LOT, LOL
NOT

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MikeFriedman 14 years ago

Originally Posted by outwest

you guys are I assume talking about EMDs which
I do not dispute , have SOME benefit, (although very small)

Wait, now EMDs do have a ranking benefit?

But just a week ago you started a thread saying they are worthless.

http://www.warriorforum.com/adsense-...ml#post5112518

You should run for office. You flip-flop as much as most politicians do.
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xnice

14 years ago

Originally Posted by outwest

you guys are I assume talking about EMDs which
I do not dispute , have SOME benefit, (although very small)

what I am objecting to is these guys saying ANY KW IN ANY COMBINATION in the domain, even 1kw.com has anything worth mentioning as far as a boost (comparable to an EMD boost, which is small)

If you start butchering the domain to where its no longer an EMD? ya that helps in the rankings a LOT, LOL
NOT

I do not know how your exp. about this. But I say the truth: "any keyword in any combination" will worth. EMD keyword with some extra words; good SEO onpage; some small backlinks packages, some guys can dominate many spots at low competition keywords. But they did not do this because the income can not pay all of fee. If the income is good enough, you can see a lot of sites with EMD keyword.

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outwest

14 years ago

I am willing to concede that teh EMD.com
has some benefit, albeit small

When you guys talk about EMDs you are talking
.COM, .NET, .ORG. .INFO, .CO.UK. etc etc etc and NOI am not willing to concede that all those domain extensions are given boosts by google , even with the EMD.

Only the .COM and I willing to concede any small boost
however any benefit, of any EMD.something, can easily be overcome with high PR backlinks of a competitor

you guys who rely on EMDs
IMO
are having a case of tunnel vision

First of all , Any normal kw , with any decent amount of search traffic, MOST of the time the EMDs are all gone. What do you EMD worshippers do then? go to the next kw? or do you have the courage to actually TRY TO RANK on SEO, Backlinks etc?

you think that the EMD will get you a boost that you dont have to backlink the site as much.
if the competition is so low that an EMD alone, gives you that much of a boost

you could most likely rank the same with ANY domain name

what about my example of creditcards.com?
you guys SCREECHED that this site was number one while mastercard and visa etc were not

Creditcards.com has 250,000 backlinks

The number 2 site has 5000 backlinks

Gosh, the EMD ....MUST be why Creditcards.com is number one then right? isnt that proof?

haha
Backlinks Rule
EMDs have very little benefit
the sooner you learn that the better

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MikeFriedman

14 years ago

I never said that an EMD or keyword rich domain was more important than backlinks. I don't focus on domains much at all myself. I think I own maybe 3 EMD's and maybe another 4-5 keyword rich domains.

I simply said that keywords in the URL do boost rankings. Does it guarantee a number 1 ranking or is it unbeatable? Of course not.

Originally Posted by outwest

what about my example of creditcards.com?
you guys SCREECHED that this site was number one while mastercard and visa etc were not

Creditcards.com has 250,000 backlinks

The number 2 site has 5000 backlinks

Gosh, the EMD ....MUST be why Creditcards.com is number one then right? isnt that proof?

Once again, you only read what you want to read. MasterCard has about 38 million backlinks. Still not #1.

Originally Posted by outwest

When you guys talk about EMDs you are talking
.COM, .NET, .ORG. .INFO, .CO.UK. etc etc etc and NOI am not willing to concede that all those domain extensions are given boosts by google , even with the EMD.

Only the .COM and I willing to concede any small boost

So I guess now you are going to try arguing that .com's rank better than anything else...

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outwest

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeFriedman

I never said that an EMD or keyword rich domain was more important than backlinks. I don't focus on domains much at all myself. I think I own maybe 3 EMD's and maybe another 4-5 keyword rich domains.

I simply said that keywords in the URL do boost rankings. Does it guarantee a number 1 ranking or is it unbeatable? Of course not.

Once again, you only read what you want to read. MasterCard has about 38 million backlinks. Still not #1.

So I guess now you are going to try arguing that .com's rank better than anything else...

Go back and look at mastercard

first of all 38 million backlinks? that could be part of the problem, spammy backlinks

second go look at them in Market Samurai
Onpage SEO for the kw Credit Cards is N N N N (this is for Mastercard) #3

While the number one site(creditcards.com ) is Y Y Y Y

Are you saying you dont know ONPAGE SEO carries a lot of weight?

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MikeFriedman 14 years ago

Both cardratings.com and Capital One have about the same or more backlinks and even better onpage factors than creditcards.com, yet they are both ranked farther back.

Go look at the 'penny stocks' SERP again.

The site that is #2, which is wikipedia, will be all N's too. Yet the site that is #9, timothysykes.com is all Y's, has far more backlinks, but is barely on the first page.

You can nitpick a single SERP to draw any conclusion you want.
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outwest

14 years ago

u cant outrank wikipedia very easily
I have that problem on one of my main kws for my new brick and mortar offline buss

the first site is wikipedia
16000 backlinks
no way

but
thats ok its avg 100 bucks per order profit and being number 2 would be fine with me
but that wont be easy either

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awddude

14 years ago

When I do my keyword research I often see look at the domain age of the top 10

It's usually a bunch of 10 year old sites, with 1 or 2 very new sites. When I look at the new sites, I notice it's because they have better optimization.

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Alexis Barnabe 14 years ago

Open Site Explorer

AS a matter of fast its hard to beat a keyword domain name. I can tell you that!
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- mosthost 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Alexis Barnabe
  
  Open Site Explorer
  
  AS a matter of fast its hard to beat a keyword domain name. I can tell you that!
  
  It looks like the links outgunned the EMD in your example.
  
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outwest

14 years ago

Links always outgun domain name

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lovboa

Banned 14 years ago

@ outwest, mike friedman

It seems you 2 are never going to come to an agreement...sigh
But thanks for the valuable info from both sides of the table

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outwest

14 years ago

Well my emd for my resort still sits at number 12 on Google woooohoooo

while the other resorts without the kw even in their url much less their domain, continue to trounce the emd...........wohoooo go emd's

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MikeFriedman

14 years ago

Originally Posted by outwest

Well my emd for my resort still sits at number 12 on Google woooohoooo

while the other resorts without the kw even in their url much less their domain, continue to trounce the emd...........wohoooo go emd's

That is a really bad example because your EMD resort site is awful. Last time I saw it you had a Wordpress site, but never even filled out the About page. It was still that silly About default page that comes with Wordpress.

It also was a PR 0 site with nowhere near the number of backlinks as the top sites.

The content was bad.

In fact, I would say the fact that it even got to #12 is a testament to the fact that EMDs do carry some ranking weight.

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michael scott

14 years ago

outwest, you just don't seem to get it no matter how much people try to explain it to you. EMDs are not the most powerful thing to rank #1, it's how you utilize the benefit. It's no different than having an optimized page title, content, or anchor text - it's just one of the elements Google looks for when ranking a page. You seem to think just because someone owns an EMD they have an automatic entitlement to page 1 but this is obviously not true when your competition is full of high PR links and good on-page SEO. By having the EMD, it only gives you a bit of a head start. But since you're still #12 even with an EMD boost, then maybe your SEO just plain sucks.

You've gone back and forth claiming EMDs are useless and months later claiming how your competition is stomping you because they have a EMD.... but I think you're just frustrated. The correlation data that MikeFreedman pointed out is obvious. Those are real examples of SEOs who know what they're doing. I suggest you go back to learning SEO from the very basics first before you continue building more sites.

Also, if you're still thinking partial match keywords suck, check out page 2 for "car insurance" on google. Again, it's the difference between real knowledge vs. a pseudo intellect. Now stop complaining and start studying.

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outwest

14 years ago

Originally Posted by michael scott

outwest, you just don't seem to get it no matter how much people try to explain it to you. EMDs are not the most powerful thing to rank #1, it's how you utilize the benefit. It's no different than having an optimized page title, content, or anchor text - it's just one of the elements Google looks for when ranking a page. You seem to think just because someone owns an EMD they have an automatic entitlement to page 1 but this is obviously not true when your competition is full of high PR links and good on-page SEO. By having the EMD, it only gives you a bit of a head start. But since you're still #12 even with an EMD boost, then maybe your SEO just plain sucks.

You've gone back and forth claiming EMDs are useless and months later claiming how your competition is stomping you because they have a EMD.... but I think you're just frustrated. The correlation data that MikeFreedman pointed out is obvious. Those are real examples of SEOs who know what they're doing. I suggest you go back to learning SEO from the very basics first before you continue building more sites.

Also, if you're still thinking partial match keywords suck, check out page 2 for "car insurance" on google. Again, it's the difference between real knowledge vs. a pseudo intellect. Now stop complaining and start studying.

Here is the bottom line
I USED to think EMDs mattered a lot and they USED TO

however presently so many of you guys focus so much on EMDs to the point of actively searching for kws based on whether the EMD Is available or not, which I think is nuts

I dont think Google values EMDs nearly as much as they used to. When I say EMDs mean nothing, Of course they give a little boost. I admit that.

What I dont agree with is searching for EMDs directly, because I know you guys who do this, if the EMD is not available, go on to the next kw, since you are so intent on the EMD

What if the EMD is not available, and the top 3 on google top 10 competition only have less than 30 backlinks. You could TROUNCE the competition with ANY domain name. But you guys would see right past that and say OH OPS EMD NOT AVAILABLE thats not a good one, Right?

Or do you have the courage to actually RANK a site and compete based on
1. backlinks
2. onpage SEO
etc etc etc etc etc

Thats my whole point, The slight advantage that EMDs may offer, is trumped very quickly by high PR backlinks and other factors

Your contention is
OOH NO NO NO, a good EMD is VERY DIFFICULT to outrank
(assuming I guess you are saying they have very thick backlinks etc etc etc)

Ok but then most of you guys who look for EMDs look for them specifically because you think you DONT have to backlink them as much, correct?

I dont know I just dont see EMDs being worth the trouble
I dont feel like buying a new domain for every kw that comes into my mind

And there is also the guys who go PAST the EMD concept and start *******izing the EMDs by adding x's , 1s, etc etc, extra words, which I think is just totally useless

but hey so what if we disagree, does everyone have to agree with you?

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Kris79

14 years ago

Yes, you can outrank BMD but you must pay attention.
First of all it's more important how many and what quality backlinks they have.
If they have poor quality backlinks and you can have better, you will outrank them.

But there is a catch to it: if they have KW in domain name, they probably targeting that KW harder, meaning their backlinks have KW as anchor text.

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can you beat a keyworded domain?

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