How important are relevant links?

71 replies
  • SEO
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Okay, so all hot-shot SEO:ers recommend one getting relevant links. Yet the vast majority of websites I often see at the top have used forum profiles for building links to their websites.

I'm aware links from forum profiles are not great as they're of low quality. But analyze the following search result...

Google for "make money on youtube". The reason to why I'm not posting a link to the search result is because I'm still new here.

The dude ranking #4 has a few good backlinks, whilst the guy at the top only has spammy backlinks from forum profiles. Is this the future for Google, people just spamming their way up to the top?

One thing I just can't let go is that the guy ranking #4 has a .info-domain. Could that be the cause for him not ranking well? There's been some rumors about .info-domains ranking terrible, and that they've never worked before. I personally believe that the domain has nothing with rankings to do. But in this case, I'm kind of willing to make an exception...
#important #links #relevant
  • Profile picture of the author bigcat1967
    Is this the future for Google, people just spamming their way up to the top?
    It's not the future of Google - it's always been like that and G has always tried their best dealing with things like that.

    If you have a LOT of QUALITY content with a few backlinks - you can rank on the first page over time, but it requires a lot of patience.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sweely99
    Yeah. And patience I do not have
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    • Profile picture of the author paulgl
      Relevant backlinks are important. But, as is common, you err in assuming
      that backlinks are the reason a site is #1. There's more to it.
      There has to be. Or else google is just a place to list sites, in order,
      who have a high number of backlinks. That would not be very good
      for a searcher. Dot info has nothing do with anything.

      Why do people forget content and relevancy, and a dozen other things
      that send a site to the top?

      Paul
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      • Profile picture of the author sanmarino
        Relevant back links have been working for me.
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  • Profile picture of the author seomasterstroke
    The most important thing we all need to remember is that Google won't display all Back links.

    Everyone just assumes that link:domainname.com will show exactly what link has helped who rank high, this is wrong....

    Google has never and will never display all back links to a site for the fear of being reverse engineered.

    So its really hard to say why someone has ranked higher than the other...or pin point a certain link or a piece of content that's pushed one site ahead of the other...

    From my personal experience, yes google favors .com's a lot more than the others...not sure if it looks down upon .info....

    Relevant backlinks' fits Google's description of how you should get backlinks in the first place...you are supposed to have content on your site that makes people link to you...and if someone's linking to you, then there's a good chance that they are in the same niche or market...
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    • Profile picture of the author Sweely99
      Originally Posted by paulgl View Post

      Relevant backlinks are important. But, as is common, you err in assuming
      that backlinks are the reason a site is #1. There's more to it.
      There has to be. Or else google is just a place to list sites, in order,
      who have a high number of backlinks. That would not be very good
      for a searcher. Dot info has nothing do with anything.

      Why do people forget content and relevancy, and a dozen other things
      that send a site to the top?

      Paul
      I know there's more to it. If you looked up the website - you'd see that the dude had tons of relevant content whilst the guy at the top only has one page worth of content.

      Not only has the guy ranking #4 have content - he also has lots of links. Yet he does not seem to rank well. I haven't forgotten the relevancy and such.

      Originally Posted by sanmarino View Post

      Relevant back links have been working for me.
      That's nice to hear. Brings me some hope.

      Originally Posted by adityas View Post

      The most important thing we all need to remember is that Google won't display all Back links.

      Everyone just assumes that link:domainname.com will show exactly what link has helped who rank high, this is wrong....

      Google has never and will never display all back links to a site for the fear of being reverse engineered.

      So its really hard to say why someone has ranked higher than the other...or pin point a certain link or a piece of content that's pushed one site ahead of the other...

      From my personal experience, yes google favors .com's a lot more than the others...not sure if it looks down upon .info....

      Relevant backlinks' fits Google's description of how you should get backlinks in the first place...you are supposed to have content on your site that makes people link to you...and if someone's linking to you, then there's a good chance that they are in the same niche or market...
      What makes you think I used Google to see what backlinks my website had?
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      • Profile picture of the author seomasterstroke
        Originally Posted by Sweely99 View Post

        What makes you think I used Google to see what backlinks my website had?

        Do you think tools that you use crawl the web at the same rate Google does, or are they able to keep track of every link that leaves every web page on the internet?

        Don't you think there's a slight possibility that they might be using data from search engines like Google or Yahoo?
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        • Profile picture of the author Sweely99
          Originally Posted by brandonbaker View Post

          It depends how we're defining the word "relevant"?

          If you mean "relevant" in the sense of relevance anchor text, then relevance is extremely important.

          If you mean "relevant" in the sense of how relevant is the linking page to the target page, then no, relevance isn't very important.

          All those top sites you've found have extremely relevant anchor text, I'm willing to bet, on non-relevant pages.
          As relevant, I'm talking about the page you get the link from.

          Let's say you have a website about cars and get linked (with a great anchor text) from a website about fishes. That's not really relevant. But it still seems to work.

          Originally Posted by adityas View Post

          Do you think tools that you use crawl the web at the same rate Google does, or are they able to keep track of every link that leaves every web page on the internet?

          Don't you think there's a slight possibility that they might be using data from search engines like Google or Yahoo?
          Dude, I'm using Yahoo! Site Explorer.
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          • Profile picture of the author seomasterstroke
            Originally Posted by Sweely99 View Post

            Dude, I'm using Yahoo! Site Explorer.
            Dude, I rest my case

            Continue getting those links, I've heard Matt Cutts say 'Quality' links in his YouTube videos like a million times, but 'relevant' links...not too many...

            Best of luck, keep the forum updated on your progress....
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            • Profile picture of the author orvn
              Originally Posted by adityas View Post

              Dude, I rest my case

              Continue getting those links, I've heard Matt Cutts say 'Quality' links in his YouTube videos like a million times, but 'relevant' links...not too many...

              Best of luck, keep the forum updated on your progress....
              Dude, ever used the related: operator in a Google query?
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              • Profile picture of the author seomasterstroke
                Originally Posted by orvn View Post

                Dude, ever used the related: operator in a Google query?
                I'm not sure I understand what that has to do with anything?

                Did you know that even sites on the same Class C IP blocks may show up in 'related'?

                So there are many factors that run interference with related:, there have been instances of people reporting un-related sites showing up as related because of their common web hosts...so I say there's no definitive way to say one way or another about links....
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                • Profile picture of the author orvn
                  Originally Posted by adityas View Post

                  I'm not sure I understand what that has to do with anything?

                  Did you know that even sites on the same Class C IP blocks may show up in 'related'?
                  If you read the dissertation on the Hilltop algorithm that I posted above you'll see what I'm referring to.
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  • Profile picture of the author trytolearnmore
    According to Terry Kyle (Backlinks expert) relevant backlinks are NOT important
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    • Profile picture of the author Sweely99
      Originally Posted by trytolearnmore View Post

      According to Terry Kyle (Backlinks expert) relevant backlinks are NOT important
      What the h*ll! Then I've basically wasted my time getting all the backlinks I've gotten...
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      • Profile picture of the author brandonbaker
        Originally Posted by Sweely99 View Post

        What the h*ll! Then I've basically wasted my time getting all the backlinks I've gotten...
        It depends how we're defining the word "relevant"?

        If you mean "relevant" in the sense of relevance anchor text, then relevance is extremely important.

        If you mean "relevant" in the sense of how relevant is the linking page to the target page, then no, relevance isn't very important.

        All those top sites you've found have extremely relevant anchor text, I'm willing to bet, on non-relevant pages.
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    • Profile picture of the author JonWebContent
      Originally Posted by trytolearnmore View Post

      According to Terry Kyle (Backlinks expert) relevant backlinks are NOT important
      Then NEVER buy anything from this guy.

      Relevant backlinks are EVERYTHING and if ANYONE tries to tell you otherwise, they don't have a clue what they are talking about.

      Google is cracking down on people like this. Sites get banned DAILY from Google for using link farms.

      You need people linking to your website that operate a similar type of business or one with products/services related to what your website is about. This is absolutely 100% indisputable. Ignore the scam artists on this site because, in just a short period of time, I have found dozens of them. You will thank me for it later....

      Here is what you need and what you need to avoid:

      • Relevant and quality ONE-WAY backlinks on websites similar to yours
      • The backlink directing to your website should have a main keyword of yours included in the anchor text. For example, just a URL won't do you much good. But let's say your website sells domain names- instead of using the URL as the anchor text, it would be beneficial to you for it to say "Domain Name sales" or something like that.
      • Avoid link farms like the plague. These are ALL 100% scams and are no longer useful in terms of SEO. In fact, they can only do you harm. Stop buying from these people. I cannot stress this enough.
      • Generating backlinks is not EVERYTHING, but it is unquestionably important in terms of getting a high Google ranking and continuing to rank high. I would say it is close to 40% (maybe even 50%) of the work you need to do in order to rank high (quality content being the rest).
      Good luck!
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      • Profile picture of the author Sweely99
        Originally Posted by maahi View Post

        If you have relevant links that will help to link exchange.
        Uhm... yeah.

        Originally Posted by fundul View Post

        Backlinks have become so important to the scope of Search Engine Optimization
        The more relevant the site is that is linking back to your website
        then there's a good chance that they are in the same niche or market...
        Well, of course. Duh?

        Originally Posted by orvn View Post

        Dude, ever used the related: operator in a Google query?
        Yeah, but a lot of unrelated websites showed up.

        Originally Posted by adityas View Post

        I'm not sure I understand what that has to do with anything?

        Did you know that even sites on the same Class C IP blocks may show up in 'related'?

        So there are many factors that run interference with related:, there have been instances of people reporting un-related sites showing up as related because of their common web hosts...so I say there's no definitive way to say one way or another about links....
        That's what I said - unrelated websites started showing up.

        Originally Posted by JonWebContent View Post

        Then NEVER buy anything from this guy.

        Relevant backlinks are EVERYTHING and if ANYONE tries to tell you otherwise, they don't have a clue what they are talking about.

        Google is cracking down on people like this. Sites get banned DAILY from Google for using link farms.

        You need people linking to your website that operate a similar type of business or one with products/services related to what your website is about. This is absolutely 100% indisputable. Ignore the scam artists on this site because, in just a short period of time, I have found dozens of them. You will thank me for it later....

        Here is what you need and what you need to avoid:

        • Relevant and quality ONE-WAY backlinks on websites similar to yours
        • The backlink directing to your website should have a main keyword of yours included in the anchor text. For example, just a URL won't do you much good. But let's say your website sells domain names- instead of using the URL as the anchor text, it would be beneficial to you for it to say "Domain Name sales" or something like that.
        • Avoid link farms like the plague. These are ALL 100% scams and are no longer useful in terms of SEO. In fact, they can only do you harm. Stop buying from these people. I cannot stress this enough.
        • Generating backlinks is not EVERYTHING, but it is unquestionably important in terms of getting a high Google ranking and continuing to rank high. I would say it is close to 40% (maybe even 50%) of the work you need to do in order to rank high (quality content being the rest).
        Good luck!
        Ah, sweet! Thanks for that list. Makes me believe in myself
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  • Profile picture of the author bilzz
    Links are very helpful for sending websites to the high rankings on the web but the quantity of them is just only one single criterion in this regard. You know, although more links mean more and better positions and potentials for higher placements online and naturally, increased web traffic but other important factors, such as the relevancy of the links being established is also significant.

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  • Profile picture of the author orvn
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  • Profile picture of the author Harrysmith
    Relevancy affect in many ways, one of them is getting better ranking ( as per Google guideline) but most important is the targeted traffic which we will be getting from such relevant websites where we manage to have our link.. no matter whether it's from a profile page or from signature.
    .info domains can also be rank better if effective SEO strategies are implemented with continued efforts.
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  • Profile picture of the author JonWebContent
    Belief in ones self is 90% of the battle!
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  • Profile picture of the author Sweely99
    I sure hope so. Again, thanks for clearing that out.

    I work with SEO professionally but I still had some doubts surrounding that topic. All my competitors have links (with the correct anchor text) from irrelevant pages. And they rank well too... and that is making me mad
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    • Profile picture of the author JonWebContent
      Originally Posted by Sweely99 View Post

      I sure hope so. Again, thanks for clearing that out.

      I work with SEO professionally but I still had some doubts surrounding that topic. All my competitors have links (with the correct anchor text) from irrelevant pages. And they rank well too... and that is making me mad
      This could be a combination of a number of factors including age of site, title tag keywords, placement of keywords in the content (not really all that important as long as you aren't stuffing keywords), URL/Domain name (do they have a certain keyword in their domain name? It helps), etc....

      Get your link on relevant sites with a keyword included in the anchor text and write good content on your sites and I guarantee you will see results.

      Another thing to understand is just because someone ranks higher than you on Google doesn't mean they will get more clicks. Write a catchy title (with keywords) and description to increase clicks. As long as you are on Page 1 (sometimes Page 2 can be profitable too), you will be fine as long as your link stands out. So get creative. People don't just click on the first search result they see. They click on the one that interests them the most.
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    • Profile picture of the author Lyanna
      Originally Posted by Sweely99 View Post

      I sure hope so. Again, thanks for clearing that out.

      I work with SEO professionally but I still had some doubts surrounding that topic. All my competitors have links (with the correct anchor text) from irrelevant pages. And they rank well too... and that is making me mad
      I have noticed the same thing. I'm starting to think that a link is a link - so long as you have the right anchor text.

      If your niche is dental hygiene and your anchor text link comes from a high PR car insurance site, it is still considered relevant if you have anchor text "relevant" to your site.
      I've not done massive research but from what I can tell this does seem to be true.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sweely99
    Actually, I'm the one with a keyword in my domain. Too bad Google is starting to devalue that sort of thing.

    I've been getting my website listed on a lot of relevant and authoritative websites. That was about a month ago, I guess. So I assume I'll be seeing results soon.

    I've got about 100 indexed pages which each and one contains more than 300 words. And I'm a writer when I'm not doing SEO - so I know quality content.

    The title is as catchy as possible, believe me. I'm 18, I know that kind of stuff
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  • Profile picture of the author JonWebContent
    If you post the key-phrase and which link is yours I can do a quick check and see if I can figure out why they're beating you.

    But you are probably correct in thinking you will start to soon see results. Results won't always (if ever) happen overnight. You seem like you know what you are doing so I'm sure your patience will pay off!
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  • Profile picture of the author Sweely99
    It hopefully will. And I'm afraid I can't supply you with the URL/keywords as the website is written all in Swedish. But thanks for the offer, anyways
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    • Profile picture of the author JonWebContent
      Originally Posted by Sweely99 View Post

      It hopefully will. And I'm afraid I can't supply you with the URL/keywords as the website is written all in Swedish. But thanks for the offer, anyways
      Oh! Yeah, I would be of no help to you with that! But maybe in a few months you can give me some advice on planning my 2 week trip to Europe (planning on going in late May or early June)!
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  • Profile picture of the author peter gibson
    This...
    Originally Posted by trytolearnmore

    According to Terry Kyle (Backlinks expert) relevant backlinks are NOT important
    Then this...
    Originally Posted by JonWebContent View Post

    Then NEVER buy anything from this guy.

    Relevant backlinks are EVERYTHING and if ANYONE tries to tell you otherwise, they don't have a clue what they are talking about.
    OK. Slow down partner. I gave your other thread some latitude because you're new and perhaps trying to massage a rep here, but it really needs to be said that you should watch who's back you try to stand on in order to gain respect and authority regarding your opinions.

    1. Terry Kyle is not only a well known Backlinks/SEO Ninja, he's been conducting experiments regarding this very subject for a very long time, and publishing results as they occur. You can look at a bit of Terry's "street cred" here. In fact I think it's likely good for you that today is Xmas, because I personally know about 8 heavy hitting Warriors in the SEO world who would have already torn you a new one for trying to discredit his advice. He has a stellar reputation here and on his own forum, and if it comes to a choice between what he says and what you say, he's gonna win every time. Just sayin'.
    2. Link farms = "non relevant backlinks" in your arguments, yet they are NOT the same thing at all. This seems to be the biggest [read: extreme] alternative to your "relevant content only" commandment. Point in fact: Non relevant backlinks (that have nothing to do with "link farms") help to rocket sites to the top of SERPs all the time. If I was stupid enough to give up one of any random 10 niches I rank well for (which I'm not) I could show you with pages of examples as to how I know this intimately. But really, before you consider debating with me, offer some form of proof that backs up your blanket discredits, because I have around 5 years of case studies that says otherwise.
    My second point (above) is exactly why cats like Sweely have trouble against competition using "non relevant" links. And it has precious little to do with on page SEO in most cases. Most competition in my larger niches have picture perfect on page SEO, some very high PR "relevant" incoming links, .edu and .gov included, all with similar metrics to my sites; yet I'm consistently ahead in rank with sheer superior numbers of relevant + NON relevant incoming links (along with other factors of course). In some cases I'm ahead with far less content and newer domains. Again, I'm not just suggesting this, I've seen the results and replicated the case a number times. My bank account regularly thanks me for it.

    And I should also point out that Paul said the one thing here that is missing in these arguments all too often. It's not simply about backlinks, relevant or not. There are many factors involved that are necessary to maintain good SERP. But specifically to this "relevant vs non relevant" argument, it is deemed relevant by google Gods when you place your contextual anchor text on linking sites - thus that link becomes relevant. If your niche is dental hygiene and your anchor text link comes from a high PR car insurance site, it is still considered relevant if you have anchor text "relevant" to your site.

    I've just said "relevant" more in this post than I have in the entire year.

    Listen, I'm not coming down on you personally. That's my disclaimer. Having made that qualification, you really shouldn't come swooping into a forum and touting what you think you know as absolute fact - slamming someone in the process. What you have is a strong opinion on the matter, and as with everyone, opinions are like a$$holes, everyone's got one.

    You can discount what I'm saying as argumentative but that is truly not my intention here. Really mate, cool it with all these blanket statements and commandments about NON relevant content being "useless" and counter productive. They are part of a sound SEO strategy. Link farms? You're absolutely right that they can and usually are harmful. But there's a difference.

    Equating a link farm to a non relevant back link is like comparing a Toyota to a Twinkie and then slamming the Toyota because it tastes bad. I understand you have an opinion on the matter but my advice is to do so with a lot less exclamation points and CAPS LOCK emphasis. Otherwise you'll spend most of the time on Warrior being pwned by some pretty heavy hitters.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sweely99
    I have never been this confused before.
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    • Profile picture of the author peter gibson
      Originally Posted by Sweely99 View Post

      I have never been this confused before.
      This is nothing. Wait until you're married.
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  • Profile picture of the author saurish
    Relevant back links are far better, quick and everlasting than non relevant back links.
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    • Profile picture of the author peter gibson
      Originally Posted by saurish View Post

      Relevant back links are far better, quick and everlasting than non relevant back links.
      No. They. Are. Not. Jeez posts like this are seriously frustrating.

      It's people like you that make others confused. I mean why even bother posting?
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      • Profile picture of the author rtrube
        Originally Posted by peter gibson View Post

        No. They. Are. Not. Jeez posts like this are seriously frustrating.

        It's people like you that make others confused. I mean why even bother posting?
        Peter, I am going to sya that your previous post to the one above, and your description in a later post about your friend are the exact reason why I (as a former lurker...now a poster...) are glas that you do post, and that you post with extremely valuable information.

        I was in a similar situation as your friend - a site stuck in no mans land. I was doing all the "right" things, posting articles, relevant forum posts... and nothing. I then posted a video with link, and a couple of contextual links in completely unrelated places (by accident...), and within a couple of days, the video and my site were on the first page of G and Bing!
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  • Profile picture of the author peter gibson
    Originally Posted by Sweely99 View Post

    I have never been this confused before.
    OK, I'll try and be as clear as I can.

    Here's an example of what some of us are talking about. A friend of mine was whinging and moaning that his site - in a relatively small niche - was stuck at position 9 for his keywords. His niche is as NON IM as it gets. It's a medical micro niche. He had been working hard to increase google position for about 4 weeks. He added content, he wrote articles. He found "Relevant" blogs and posted relevant comments. Still, he didn't budge.

    I told him to try an anchor text link in his signature at a political forum he regularly contributes, as well as to one of my high PR health sites. Bear in mind that's only 2 more anchor text links. He whined some more, saying "but their not relevant to my niche!" Long story short he tried it.

    What happened? He sailed to position 3 within a day of doing this, and stayed there. He's now at #1 because he instantly stopped buying into the "relevant only" argument and started getting links where he could.

    The point is that he made that political forum and my health site a "relevant" link by providing contextual anchor text back to his site.

    So if you think that in order to get your "xyz" keyword to #1 you should only link from other "xyz" related sites, as some here are implying is "the only way to do it", you will consistently lose to the guy who's getting links from everywhere.
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  • Profile picture of the author JonWebContent
    Relevant links are better. Are they quicker to get? Absolutely not. But they are better. Also, page rank of the URL your link is posted on is just as important.

    Someone above made a statement about link building isn't everything and people put too much of an emphasis on it. He's right. It is important, but nothing beats good content. If you focus on writing good content (on and off site), everything will fall into place for you. You will be surprised at how many people end up linking to you naturally just because they find your content relevant to their topic.

    The link below is a great resource for people looking for a good linkbuilding strategy. The guy who wrote is goes into detail (it is a long read, but it's helpful).

    Link building strategy

    I strongly recommend checking that out. He goes into detail why certain things such as link farms and links to irrelevant sites do you no good. Give it a read. It should clear things up.
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  • Profile picture of the author El Zorro
    A backlink is a backlink.

    Being a relevant backlink can be better because it can draw direct visitors to your site. However, if it is just for SEO, look for high PR backlinks. Make sure the site backlinking to yours is not blacklisted or something

    Regards,

    El Zorro
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    • Profile picture of the author JonWebContent
      Originally Posted by El Zorro View Post

      A backlink is a backlink.

      Being a relevant backlink can be better because it can draw direct visitors to your site. However, if it is just for SEO, look for high PR backlinks. Make sure the site backlinking to yours is not blacklisted or something

      Regards,

      El Zorro
      I agree with that except for the "a backlink is a backlink" comment. You're right, high PR backlinks are the best and it is important to have your link on a non-blacklisted site.

      That said, if your URL is listed on a high PR site, there's a good chance that site draws high traffic so you definitely can increase your own traffic this way. A backlink on a completely unrelated site will never get you added clicks from that site because their visitors most likely won't have any interest in the products/services you are offering.
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      • Profile picture of the author FredJones
        Relevant linking is one of the most misunderstood things ever.

        A relevant link is not when a car page cp1 gives this link to a car page cp2 saying <a href="cp2">games page</a>.

        A relevant link is not when a games page gp1 gives this link to a car page cp2 saying <a href="cp2">games page</a>.

        A relevant link is yes when a car page cp1 gives this link to a car page cp2 saying <a href="cp2">car page</a>.

        A relevant link is yes when a games page gp1 gives this link to a car page cp2 saying <a href="cp2">car page</a>.

        To summarize the above, a link is relevant only when the destination receives the right anchor text, irrespective of the content of the source page. How much the link is counted is a very different question altogether.
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      • Profile picture of the author peter gibson
        Originally Posted by JonWebContent View Post

        I agree with that except for the "a backlink is a backlink" comment. You're right, high PR backlinks are the best and it is important to have your link on a non-blacklisted site.

        That said, if your URL is listed on a high PR site, there's a good chance that site draws high traffic so you definitely can increase your own traffic this way. A backlink on a completely unrelated site will never get you added clicks from that site because their visitors most likely won't have any interest in the products/services you are offering.
        So is it this^^^^ Or...

        Originally Posted by JonWebContent View Post

        Relevant backlinks are EVERYTHING and if ANYONE tries to tell you otherwise, they don't have a clue what they are talking about.
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        • Profile picture of the author paulgl
          There are some decent replies, and yes some cargo on junk.

          There has to be some logic and a little balance.

          People seem to be confused that irrelevant links=link farms.
          Hardly. I can't point out enough times on this topic, to just delete
          your sig here at the WF if you think google feels WF is a link farm.

          One thing I have learned here, and yes I will admit when I am wrong, is
          that relevant links are better to google. I always thought that a backlink
          is a backlink is a backlink. That is indeed true. Any link that google counts
          is indeed a worthy backlink. But backlinks are like votes. SERPs are not
          a democracy. Some votes count more than others.

          Higher PR votes certainly count, but higher PR and relevant is the most sought
          after. That's why I make more money selling links on my sites than any
          other revenue. People like the high PR and want relevancy. Google does not
          mind you selling links, but that is another story.

          Anyway, after deciding to do more research a while back, I am now in the
          camp that relevant links are a much higher vote when google looks at backlinks.
          Yes, it does indeed that I admit that I was wrong and am happy to give kudos
          to people here who argue with a little bit of authority.

          However, in the end, a backlink is still a backlink. Just because it counts less
          does not mean you should not go for as many backlinks as possible. Even
          non-relevant links.

          So keep the links in your sig here at the WF. They count. Not as much, but they are
          low lying fruit everyone should pick.

          Paul
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          • Profile picture of the author peter gibson
            Originally Posted by paulgl View Post

            However, in the end, a backlink is still a backlink. Just because it counts less
            does not mean you should not go for as many backlinks as possible. Even
            non-relevant links.

            So keep the links in your sig here at the WF. They count. Not as much, but they are
            low lying fruit everyone should pick.

            Paul
            This is exactly what I was eluding to really. Sure there is a strong case for high PR relevant links, but having said that, in certain niches these are near impossible to find, and suggesting that it's only worth it to concentrate on this because everything else is a waste of time is completely off the mark and negligent advice to let stand.

            There are niches wherein someone in top 5 position has all but exhausted any high pr relevant links. They still want to get to #1. There may be another case where most relevant high PR links will reject his link request, or take their sweet time approving it. Judging by what some have said here these guys can't compete. They may as well throw in the towel or spend far too many man hours creating truck loads of unnecessary content in the hope that it will pay off. Plenty of people here and elsewhere, me included, have shown that someone can certainly compete AND dominate, even when he has non relevant links. It happens on the regular.

            My biggest issue in this thread (and the other one I avoided) are all these unnecessary condemnations, generalizations, and the implications that have followed. Good people, people who walk the walk and talk the talk have shown that while it certainly matters - relevant linking is certainly not the only gig in town. Telling someone otherwise is doing them a disservice. A link is a link. A relevant high PR link is like finding the reddest apple in the barrel. It's a bonus. When you're hungry there's plenty of other apples to grab.
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        • Profile picture of the author JonWebContent
          Let me clarify something for Peter and Paul....

          On forum backlinks....

          Nobody really knows what success they place on the search engines. I suppose if it is plastered all over a junk forum (not this place), maybe it does you absolutely no good. Posting on a well respected forum (such as this) may do you a little good. I have seen nowhere that indicates negative results from forum posting. However, I'm not sure there's proof that it does you any good either.

          On relevant links....

          They are, without a doubt, beneficial- like Paul said. To suggest otherwise shows a true lack of SEO understanding and I would venture to guess that 100% of actual SEO experts would back me up on that. It's common knowledge amongst the SEO community (well, the white hat community) that your site will most definitely benefit from getting relevant backlinks on related sites.

          Also, page rank and anchor text are major factors like we have already discussed.

          The problem is there is a lot of "black hat" SEO types that will claim this is not correct. These are the same people that guarantee a #1 ranking on Google in a very short period of time. The problem is that is very misleading. I could write an article on golf and get ranked #1 on Google for the search phrase "golf clubs made for Warrior Forum members" within 24 hours after my article is accepted.

          The truth is NOBODY can guarantee a #1 ranking for a profitable key-phrase. All you can do is optimize your website as best as you possibly can (through proper content) and then build links and promote it off-site as best as you can. After that, you just have to hope the algorithms swing in your favor.
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          • Profile picture of the author peter gibson
            Originally Posted by JonWebContent View Post

            ... However, I'm not sure there's proof that it does you any good either.
            Then you haven't been following along.

            Originally Posted by JonWebContent View Post

            On relevant links....

            They are, without a doubt, beneficial- like Paul said. To suggest otherwise shows a true lack of SEO understanding and I would venture to guess that 100% of actual SEO experts would back me up on that. It's common knowledge amongst the SEO community (well, the white hat community) that your site will most definitely benefit from getting relevant backlinks on related sites.
            No one here has ever suggested a relevant link is NOT beneficial. No one here is showing any lack of SEO understanding to that extent, and if they did I'd have opened a new orifice for them to spew crap like that. I wonder why you would feel the need to say this.

            You, however, initially suggested that any links OTHER THAN relevant ones are useless, and when called on that assertion you spent time backpedaling in later posts. On top of this you've still allowed your insult to a valued warrior stand. This is my main point of contention. This is what I have a problem with.

            Originally Posted by JonWebContent View Post

            Also, page rank and anchor text are major factors like we have already discussed.
            I could really be sarcastic. I won't. It's Christmas. But, oh hell... Way to be Captain Obvious. OK that was a little sarcastic. Sorry mate.

            Originally Posted by JonWebContent View Post

            The problem is there is a lot of "black hat" SEO types that will claim this is not correct. These are the same people that guarantee a #1 ranking on Google in a very short period of time. The problem is that is very misleading. I could write an article on golf and get ranked #1 on Google for the search phrase "golf clubs made for Warrior Forum members" within 24 hours after my article is accepted.

            The truth is NOBODY can guarantee a #1 ranking for a profitable key-phrase. All you can do is optimize your website as best as you possibly can (through proper content) and then build links and promote it off-site as best as you can. After that, you just have to hope the algorithms swing in your favor.
            With this you make a very good point. Unfortunately what I've highlighted above is not all you can do, if you're so inclined. If someone has black hat skills and the morals of a small furry animal, they have other options. Most of these BH guys are using software like xrumer, bookmarking demon, senuke, e.t.c... and as sad as it is to say, they get results. They beat cats like you and I all the time. I hate it, but I can't deny it. I've seen it in action and it makes my stomach turn.

            At the point a webmaster considers black hat, it becomes a moral question along with a gamble. Take a chance with black hat stuff, maybe you get tanked and lose your shirt, maybe get to #1 in an extremely competitive niche and make heaps of cash. Some of these BH knuckleheads really know what their on about, which is at the least, unfortunate.

            Google employs a system, a set of algorithms that ensure the user will get the best possible results for their search queries. With any system, some people choose to game it rather than work within it. It sucks that the BH gang have got game, but I'd be remiss to deny that many in that community do, and no one else here should ignore it. Know the enemy, and all that.

            And who knows if their automated, happy crappy, link building, horse puckey will stick past a few more google updates. I'd love to think it won't, and in a perfect world they'll get tanked. In a perfect world I won't require fossil fuels for my Harley either. Problem is, this is not a perfect world.

            I do feel you though, it's irritating as hell that they make these shoddy promises and sometimes take advantage. It's just that people don't usually argue with results, and their bloody software and shady techniques can get results from time to time. All we can really do is keep pointing out that it is a big gamble. After that it's up to the morals of the individual.

            Can someone guarantee a #1 spot for "Kamikazee Bubble Gum Supply Trucks"? Sure. In fact give it 30 minutes and enter that in google, I'm almost sure this thread will be #1. For real niches it's a gamble, and you can either play the game with or without cheating. Both ways work, the honest way just guarantees we won't be risking our sites,efforts, and articles of clothing by trying.
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  • Profile picture of the author JonWebContent
    "To summarize the above, a link is relevant only when the destination receives the right anchor text, irrespective of the content of the source page. How much the link is counted is a very different question altogether."

    Exactly, however it is still important to have relevant links on related sites. That anchor text is crucial, but it also helps to get both a keyword-rich anchor text along with it being on a related site. When you get these kinds of links, you're doing something right.

    Really, it doesn't matter all that much if the site linking to you just has your URL in terms of SEO. It's debatable if it even helps at all because there's no keyword based off of that link to rank your site for.

    Quality links on high page rank sites with relevant anchor text is the way to go. Also, another thing that most SEO experts look for is how many other outbound links are on the page your link is on. It's generally better for your site to have a backlink on a page that is not plastered with a million other outbound links.
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  • Profile picture of the author kyleph
    In relevant link, you can earn not only links but also visitors for your site.
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  • Profile picture of the author JonWebContent
    "With this you make a very good point. Unfortunately what I've highlighted above is not all you can do, if you're so inclined. If someone has black hat skills and the morals of a small furry animal, they have other options. Most of these BH guys are using software like xrumer, bookmarking demon, senuke, e.t.c... and as sad as it is to say, they get results. They beat cats like you and I all the time. I hate it, but I can't deny it. I've seen it in action and it makes my stomach turn."

    This is where you are wrong. They DIDN'T beat you. You beat them. They just achieved a higher search engine ranking. Morals > Money and it seems like you would agree with me on this. I tell you what.......black hatters might make a few more bucks than me, but I promise you I sleep better at night than them!

    Google employs a system, a set of algorithms that ensure the user will get the best possible results for their search queries. With any system, some people choose to game it rather than work within it. It sucks that the BH gang have got game, but I'd be remiss to deny that many in that community do, and no one else here should ignore it. Know the enemy, and all that.

    This is true, but no matter how well you optimize your site and how many great backlinks you get, there's always the possibility of someone out there doing the same thing as you.......only better. I don't care what you sell, somebody can beat you at your own game doing things the right way. But even so, you can still make a lot of money online without having a #1 ranking for a highly profitable keyword. I know someone that runs a site that is not optimized at all because he doesn't care about the search engines. He gets enough traffic through local, offline marketing, having me write articles for him that link to his site, and his social media pages. He did no keyword research and his title tag is just a giant sales pitch, but it works for him.

    Google is doing a better job of shutting out the black hatters. I think in the next couple of years things will really change and it will be more difficult for these types of SEO's to succeed. Every year it seems they are improving in this area. Back in the day site owners would have gateway pages with keywords stuffed to manipulate the search engines. Google forced that practice to end. And in the last couple of years they have done a better job of cracking down on traffic exchange/link farms by holding no weight on these backlinks. It's pretty much impossible to create a computer program that will make it 100% impossible for black hat methods to succeed, but they are getting to closer to where it is really difficult on these types. That's a good thing.

    Just keep doing things the right way and your site will flourish........and you will sleep well at night knowing you're a man of integrity. I guarantee it.
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    • Profile picture of the author DannyDarwin
      Originally Posted by JonWebContent View Post

      "With this you make a very good point. Unfortunately what I've highlighted above is not all you can do, if you're so inclined. If someone has black hat skills and the morals of a small furry animal, they have other options. Most of these BH guys are using software like xrumer, bookmarking demon, senuke, e.t.c... and as sad as it is to say, they get results. They beat cats like you and I all the time. I hate it, but I can't deny it. I've seen it in action and it makes my stomach turn."

      This is where you are wrong. They DIDN'T beat you. You beat them. They just achieved a higher search engine ranking. Morals > Money and it seems like you would agree with me on this. I tell you what.......black hatters might make a few more bucks than me, but I promise you I sleep better at night than them!

      Google employs a system, a set of algorithms that ensure the user will get the best possible results for their search queries. With any system, some people choose to game it rather than work within it. It sucks that the BH gang have got game, but I'd be remiss to deny that many in that community do, and no one else here should ignore it. Know the enemy, and all that.

      This is true, but no matter how well you optimize your site and how many great backlinks you get, there's always the possibility of someone out there doing the same thing as you.......only better. I don't care what you sell, somebody can beat you at your own game doing things the right way. But even so, you can still make a lot of money online without having a #1 ranking for a highly profitable keyword. I know someone that runs a site that is not optimized at all because he doesn't care about the search engines. He gets enough traffic through local, offline marketing, having me write articles for him that link to his site, and his social media pages. He did no keyword research and his title tag is just a giant sales pitch, but it works for him.

      Google is doing a better job of shutting out the black hatters. I think in the next couple of years things will really change and it will be more difficult for these types of SEO's to succeed. Every year it seems they are improving in this area. Back in the day site owners would have gateway pages with keywords stuffed to manipulate the search engines. Google forced that practice to end. And in the last couple of years they have done a better job of cracking down on traffic exchange/link farms by holding no weight on these backlinks. It's pretty much impossible to create a computer program that will make it 100% impossible for black hat methods to succeed, but they are getting to closer to where it is really difficult on these types. That's a good thing.

      Just keep doing things the right way and your site will flourish........and you will sleep well at night knowing you're a man of integrity. I guarantee it.
      There is nothing immoral in getting backlinks from blog networks, link farms, buying links on high PR pages, forum sigs or anything else.

      Unless of course, Google is your God and will judge you in the afterlife.

      Spammy? Yes, forum link blasts can be spammy. Social bookmarking as well, but not necessarily. Spinning content and submitting to article directories? Nah...

      Smart? That depends on the results you're getting. You get results from your long term quality content strategy. Other people get results by creating 100 websites per day and backlinking them with forum blasts.
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      • Profile picture of the author affiliatelabel
        hey crew,
        What if i get an anchor text from a chinese website that is pr9? does language mean anything or does google say wow a major chinese news website likes such ans such?
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  • Profile picture of the author alejandro p
    The answer is simple. Get both.

    If you have good links backing your link profile, crap links pretty much can't touch you.
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  • Profile picture of the author veniclengs
    Relevant links to the site for several reasons. The main reasons are that helps search engines to find the "theme" of your website, and can invest in its class, which is suitable for the site. Although the number of backlinks are important, quality is important.
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  • Profile picture of the author orvinmarcantel24
    Banned
    [DELETED]
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  • Profile picture of the author ButterflyGarden
    I think the relevance of links help Google better contextualize a website.
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    • Profile picture of the author 4morereferrals
      Relevant links are better. Are they quicker to get? Absolutely not. But they are better. Also, page rank of the URL your link is posted on is just as important.

      Someone above made a statement about link building isn't everything and people put too much of an emphasis on it. He's right. It is important, but nothing beats good content.
      Says the dude with Quality Content Creation in their sig ... who later goes on to fess up that forum profile link spam is kicking their ass in the serps ...

      ... Never cease to be amazed.

      You can decide to be a Mantra Whore and feel all warm and fuzzy that you're uber-white-hat ... or you can decide to roll with what works and makes money and switch to what google wants next ... or not be subject to Google / SEO at all.

      If you sleep better at night knowing you only got links from relevant sites and you worked super hard for those - "quality links" - then by all means you go ... but those "relevant links" - backlinks placed on sites - related to your $$$ site arent the keys to your SERP Success ... and neither is "quality" or even "decent" content.

      If google truly cared about quality then wtf are shopping results in position #4?

      Google

      Whats quality?
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  • Profile picture of the author LadySara
    Thanks Peter Gibson and 4morereferrals. When checking the backlinks of sites ranked #1, I realized that many of them have a lot of irrelevant backlinks. This did get me confused, because many (most) SEO pros(?) preach that relevant backlinks are "holier than thou".

    Your posts cleared it up for me. There's definitely a difference when people who post speak from experience and seeing results, while others say things like, "I suppose", "makes sense", or "Most SEO experts agree".....

    Thanks.
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  • Profile picture of the author srbilles
    Why is it that everyone thinks that a relevant link is when it is placed on a site with relevant topics?

    Since when does LINK relevance have to do with Site Relevance?

    You can have a very relevant link on a site that is not in the same niche as your site.

    Site topics have absolutely nothing to do with LINK Relevance.
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  • Profile picture of the author websensible
    In my experience, relevancy is determined in this order
    1. Anchor Text
    2. Page Content (esp page TITLE)
    3. Domain/Site Content or theme

    If you can get all 3, great. But you don't need it to rank. Anchor text still rules.
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  • Profile picture of the author ablife
    I don't actually believe that forum links, social profile links etc are spammy links if the site they are linking back to offers incredible content. It's hard to get your site noticed unless you get links, so if you have amazing content on your site. Grabbing these links to help it along in the SERPS is perfectly fine to me.

    With regards to your initial question, from my own testing, quality and relevance beats the low end links, but quality and relevance means hard work. If Google still allow for profile links to work, I say use them.
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  • Profile picture of the author seonow123
    Relevant links means success in site promotion. As many relevant links your site has, your site become more popular in search engines.
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  • Profile picture of the author jazbo
    Yawn, here we go again. Just build links.
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    • Profile picture of the author inter123
      Yes.

      Originally Posted by jazbo View Post

      Yawn, here we go again. Just build links.
      The whole thing with Google is silly. I see competitors such as Tesco, Argos, Comet, etc (shops in UK) employing SEO firms who have created blog networks for backlinks. They get the few genuine links from customers but the vast majority is self made. And often they take genuine backlinks and redirect them to totally unrelated pages they want to rank for.

      It would be really unfair if they penalise the little guy who is providing decent content but is getting backlinks from unrelated blogs and the like.

      Luckily they could not care less at the moment.
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  • Profile picture of the author trytolearnmore
    Hmm.... whom should people believe:

    Terry Kyle - a backlinks expert, who got three of his websites (i think it was three) on Page 1 on google for the keyword "Backlinks", and who tells that "relevant backlinks aren't important"; or some unknown "experts", who say "relevant backlinks are important" based on... emm...hmmm... a hunch?

    Didn't want to sound rude, but guys if you have something to say on such an important topic as SEO, then make sure it is based on some facts.

    King regards,
    Andrii
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  • Profile picture of the author Sweely99
    Okay, so I'm insanely confused. Should I be getting relevant links or not?

    Just give me a simple answer. And by relevant links I mean links from pages who have a theme related to mine.
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  • Profile picture of the author telltimmy
    The important thing about backlinks are that they must be relevant links. This means that the sites that are linking to your site, must be about the same topics to let that backlink count.
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    • Profile picture of the author affiliatelabel
      Originally Posted by telltimmy View Post

      The important thing about backlinks are that they must be relevant links. This means that the sites that are linking to your site, must be about the same topics to let that backlink count.
      do you have proof of this remark? I see most big sites are ranked high with massive non relevant,
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      • Profile picture of the author Sweely99
        Originally Posted by telltimmy View Post

        The important thing about backlinks are that they must be relevant links. This means that the sites that are linking to your site, must be about the same topics to let that backlink count.
        Originally Posted by affiliatelabel View Post

        do you have proof of this remark? I see most big sites are ranked high with massive non relevant,
        This is the exact reason to why I've never really found a good answer. One tells me something - then someone else disagrees.
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        • Profile picture of the author trytolearnmore
          Originally Posted by Sweely99 View Post

          This is the exact reason to why I've never really found a good answer. One tells me something - then someone else disagrees.

          Final answer: NO, it doesn't have to be relevant links. Listen to experts (you can buy the product Backlinks Hydra and make sure for yourself)
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  • Profile picture of the author SamWilsonLaw
    Backlinks are important in my opinion - especially more important with competition.

    I've had pages rank in first place with and without backlinks... depends on the keyword(s).

    Better to have them than not is my best advice. Can't say for sure since I don't (haven't) work in the search engine secret society. Just test test and test.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sweely99
    Any updates on this one?
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  • Profile picture of the author PetterHedman
    Hi Sweely!
    Nice to see You here!
    Relevant links are better, but I usually go with irrelevant links if no good relevant links are to be found.
    To one of my webshops I have irrelevant links and im number 3 in a tough nische.
    Relevant is great but irrelevant links seems to do the job!

    Best of luck to your future!

    Petter
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  • Profile picture of the author moneymakerz
    Relevant links are very important. They were important earlier as well.........but now with google getting heavily on spam site, relevant links are getting more important.
    The 3 steps to link building in 2011
    good content
    relevant links
    buzz.....from facebook and other social media sites
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    • Profile picture of the author peter gibson
      Originally Posted by moneymakerz View Post

      Relevant links are very important. They were important earlier as well.........but now with google getting heavily on spam site, relevant links are getting more important.
      What in blue hell do spam sites have to do with links, relevant or not? Link from a spam site that's relevant in your niche and it's just as worthless as one completely separate from your niche. Jeez, really. I mean who is teaching this stuff these days?

      Originally Posted by moneymakerz View Post

      The 3 steps to link building in 2011
      good content
      relevant links
      buzz.....from facebook and other social media sites
      Lame advice. Period. Listen to this and you'll spend a full year doing what I can accomplish in a few weeks. Seriously. Buzz from Facebook - ergo social media? OK mate, keep on with that mantra. I really and truly hope you're one of my competitors.
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