Concerns About BuildMyRank.com Post Panda

15 years ago

This is the inherent risk that comes with any link building network. There's always the chance it'll be sniffed out and the links on them devalued, or worse, your sites penalized at Google's discretion (if there's enough of an obvious footprint).

The danger I see with any of these services comes with the fact that I'm seeing BMR mentioned more and more on this forum and others. The same happened with Linkvana a year or two ago and while many have had great results with Linkvana, I also know of people whose sites have taken mysterious hits since using such services and speculate that it was because of those.

So in short, you're absolutely right about the fact that there's reason to worry. And the more popular a service gets, the more likely it is that it may attract some attention on the other side over time. That's the nature of the business. Risk/reward.

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operandi 15 years ago

your sites penalized at Google's discretion (if there's enough of an obvious footprint).

Thats what I'm worried about.

I found other traces of the BMR network too, but I don't want to mention them.

I can see it would be easy for a search engine to trace a link back from your site to these strange highly uniform BMR article directories on disassociated domains that add no value at all.

I am seriously thinking about asking BMR to remove my articles from their network and hope no harm has been done with the ten that are out there.
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azmanar

15 years ago

Hi,

Does Google actually punish and consider all Article Directories (AD)
as dump farms, after the update?

Some popular assumptions about G include:
1. G will not index articles in ADs
2. G will undervalue backlinks from ADs
3. G totally ignores any links that come from ADs.

The last time I checked top 50 ADs, which is today - EZA (PR6), Squidoo
(PR7), Hubpages (PR6) and so many other ADs having PR4 or
better. Their Alexa rankings are still less than 1,500.

What does the above indicate?
- ADs are still relevant and ranked by G.
-There are still millions of visitors to ADs.
-ADs are spidered and indexed by G.

To reaffirm the 3 points above, use Quantcast and Alexa analytics.
See for yourself.

I thought G is about RELEVANCY. So if your articles are relevant and
unique, there are no reasons of not submitting them to ADs. At least to 40
of them and get good PR juice.

By submitting to ADs, at least you know your articles are posted and
grouped in relevant CATEGORIES. So the risk factor like what you've
been facing with BMR is ZERO, when using ADs.

Let me share with you how organic and relevant ADs are, no matter
what people are saying. When you submitted articles to ADs :-

1. Your articles are permanently there
2. Your articles are continuously indexed by SEs
3. Your articles sit in the right and relevant categories
4. Your articles are sent to thousands of relevant AD subscribers
5. Your articles are sent to thousands of relevant RSS subscribers
6. Your articles are syndicated as content to authority websites
7. Your articles are picked up by interested humans and posted on
their Blogs, Blog Networks, Autoblogs, Sites, Yahoo Groups and Forums.
8. Then RSS, Blogs, Sites, Yahoo Groups and Forums are continuously
indexed by SE's.

So, the easy-way-out of building backlinks by using BMR or
any other single interface link networks are risky.

Submitting to ADs will build real organic value for your content,
only when they are unique & relevant.

The question of duplicate content policy does not arise, when the
interest of people towards your content is more relevant to G.

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topan

15 years ago

Originally Posted by azmanar

Hi,

Does Google actually punish and consider all Article Directories (AD)
as dump farms, after the update?

Some popular assumptions about G include:
1. G will not index articles in ADs
2. G will undervalue backlinks from ADs
3. G totally ignores any links that come from ADs.

The last time I checked top 50 ADs, which is today - EZA (PR6), Squidoo
(PR7), Hubpages (PR6) and so many other ADs having PR4 or
better. Their Alexa rankings are still less than 1,500.

I agree with azmanar, and i thought G giving more value to backlinks from articles.

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Anthony Phillips 15 years ago

I think BMR is legit. As long as your SERP rankings keep increasing, why worry? Just another thing you're keeping on your plate. If your rank starts dropping, stop using the service.
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operandi

15 years ago

So, the easy-way-out of building backlinks by using BMR or
any other single interface link networks are risky.

Yes. The article directories are overt and legit (mostly).

BMR sites are also legit because they have unique content that has passed quality control, but they run them covertly as though they have something to hide (which they do - the extent of their network infrastructure). That is the problem.

They can be detected and analysed and then penalised for not offering value, being mostly less than 200 words long with one obligatory link, whereas a bonafide article directory will, by and large, host articles with a minimum legth and at least an attempt at enforcing quality, thereby providing value as you have described.

I feel confident in syndicating our articles to the major article directories. Sadly I don't have that level of confidence with the BMR network anymore.

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Derek S

15 years ago

Go take one look at Nytimes.com and you will see it pointing to articles about "house hunting", "bombers", "social media", "Jane Goodall" what do any of these stories have to do with each other or the domain (other than you know through BRANDING nytimes means news)

I know Matt Cutts gets his panties in a bunch when he sees sites blatantly being built for links through content syndication but google as a machine will never notice the difference between a BMR site and The New York Times. Only way this is possible is if 100% of the content was 100% scraped from other sites and i'm still not sold on duplicate content and the panda update.

Your articles are placed in an on topic section within the sites and the pages your post hopefully have your keyword in the headline making the page even more on topic to your niche. Google is very smart but also very very dumb the more you get to know their algo.

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KarimPPC

15 years ago

it's very obvious that BMR sites are not intended to be read by humans and if you land on one it's clear that it's a blog network.

You can't compare one feature of a BMR site and compare it with a legit site and say BMR must be legit.

Arguements to that effect that have been mentiond so far
*BMR sites have PR, EZA and other site have PR so they must be legit
*BMR sites cover a variety of unrelated topics, washinton times does the same and that's legit, so BMR must be legit too

This type of arguement is invalid, you have to look at the whole package, I'm sure google is sophisticated enough to assess websites and figure out if it's a blog farm or not.

Does it have high authority incoming links? Does it have readership/subscribers? Does it have tweets for authorative users? Does it go into depth on topics, or does it appear like text written for search engines? etc

The pagerank from BMR sites are inherited from expired domains, I have 0PR sites that outrank pr4 sites in target keywords, and I have high PR PAGES that I have to work to outrank PR0 EZA pages, so I don't think PR is relevant or useful any more.

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Dellco

15 years ago

Originally Posted by TigerUK

it's very obvious that BMR sites are not intended to be read by humans and if you land on one it's clear that it's a blog network.

You can't compare one feature of a BMR site and compare it with a legit site and say BMR must be legit.

Arguements to that effect that have been mentiond so far
*BMR sites have PR, EZA and other site have PR so they must be legit
*BMR sites cover a variety of unrelated topics, washinton times does the same and that's legit, so BMR must be legit too

This type of arguement is invalid, you have to look at the whole package, I'm sure google is sophisticated enough to assess websites and figure out if it's a blog farm or not.

Does it have high authority incoming links? Does it have readership/subscribers? Does it have tweets for authorative users? Does it go into depth on topics, or does it appear like text written for search engines? etc

The pagerank from BMR sites are inherited from expired domains, I have 0PR sites that outrank pr4 sites in target keywords, and I have high PR PAGES that I have to work to outrank PR0 EZA pages, so I don't think PR is relevant or useful any more.

This is the only WF thread on BMR that is not a glowing review.

The older ones on this forum should know what happened to Linkvana after it got too popular. But basically, it is tough to control the quality when you have so many clamoring to join now (after all the glowing reviews).

Catch-22 situation.

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akazo

15 years ago

I just cancelled my BMR subscription due to having 2 domains penalized from using the service. People who have never had this happen to them say that I just don't know how to do proper backlinking. Their argument is that Google won't penalize you for a few links or you could just create links to your competition and get them penalized.

I can only tell you the results I experienced. I had some sites do well from the links and some do nothing and some get hammered for the keywords I used in the BMR posts. There is risk when using the service.

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Bramantya Prakosa

15 years ago

Originally Posted by akazo

I just cancelled my BMR subscription due to having 2 domains penalized from using the service. People who have never had this happen to them say that I just don't know how to do proper backlinking. Their argument is that Google won't penalize you for a few links or you could just create links to your competition and get them penalized.

I can only tell you the results I experienced. I had some sites do well from the links and some do nothing and some get hammered for the keywords I used in the BMR posts. There is risk when using the service.

what do you mean by penalized?if it's de-indexing case or sandbox or it's just losing ranking?

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TBInternetMarketing

15 years ago

Originally Posted by akazo

I just cancelled my BMR subscription due to having 2 domains penalized from using the service. People who have never had this happen to them say that I just don't know how to do proper backlinking. Their argument is that Google won't penalize you for a few links or you could just create links to your competition and get them penalized.

I can only tell you the results I experienced. I had some sites do well from the links and some do nothing and some get hammered for the keywords I used in the BMR posts. There is risk when using the service.

How do you know you were penalized because of BMR specifically?
I stand to be corrected here, but I'm sure Google as gone on record saying you won't be penalized for off-page SEO. If it was that easy to do, surely I could then start building links from BMR to my competitors sites?

Basically, Google will only penalize you for factors that you can control (on-page SEO or the content of your site).

Just my thoughts though...

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rinor81 15 years ago

Saw results as well with BMR after using it for only a week. The keyword is only searched 1,000 searches a month so it's not that hard to control but still it got me ranked from #8 to #4 in Google...not bad for a week.
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arttse

15 years ago

You raised some interesting points.

A good quality site does not need to advertise or sell anything. Have a look at Wikipedia.

Further, a good quality site not only has outbound links, but also has lots of internal links. Again have a look at Wikipedia.

It's very obvious that blog networks sites (particularly the ones that have hundreds of unrelated posts/articles and every single post/article has only outbound links) will get devalued by google once they are discovered;

The other thing to consider is how often will your posts appear on these blogs? If it's more than ones, the "very little" link value diminishes even more.

You are much better off writing a high quality article with a view to getting it syndicated by relevant authority sites. One of these is equivalent to 500 unrelated non-authority sites that have been spammed to death by affiliate sites or made for adsense sites.

Originally Posted by operandi

Hi

Following the glowing reviews for BulidMyRank.com I subscribed to their free trial.

I have posted my 10 trial articles and been really happy with the service. In fact I've been so pleased that I have already written the next ten articles ready for when my subscription starts in a few days.

I wanted to check how my articles were doing, and unfortunately this is where things have started to go wrong.

I am now concerned about the safety of using this service and would like your opinions please, before I go and subscribe.

Here are my concerns:

1) I searched for an article title in quotes and easily found it. But the domain it was on had no relation at all to the subject of my post.

The domain name is associated with Java programming when my post was about insurance - uh oh!

2) So I looked at the other posts on the domain. All were about 150 - 200 words long and each had one link to the target site. Talk about uniformity! Uh oh!

3) None of the posts had any adsense or adverts which is understandable as these leave a footprint, but how many real blogs do not use adverts or adsense. Every blog I see is desperate for revenue to pay for hosting etc. By not leaving a footprint, they create an enormous footprint across the whole site - uh oh!

4) So I did a whois.sc search and found the IP address of the site and saw it was hosted in New Mexico.

5) I then found another of their sites and saw that it was also hosted in New Mexico (on a different ip address) and had the same article length and configuration and non monetising footprints. Uh oh!

6) None of the domain names I have found so far have any relation to the subject of my posts. They are just article directories, but peculiar looking because article directories are desperate to monetise, whereas these are just bland with uniform length articles. Uh oh!

So there are my concerns. Google is penalizing thin poor quality content. How save are our links on the BuildMyRank network when Google improves its detection and correlation of these content networks?

I found all this manually in ten minutes. So can someone working for Google.

Any thoughts? My subscription payment to them comes up in a few days.

Thanks

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operandi

15 years ago

It's very obvious that blog networks sites (particularly the ones that have hundreds of unrelated posts/articles and every single post/article has only outbound links) will get devalued by google once they are discovered;

That's the problem. The model is flawed unless you identify yourself as an article directory. I won't use any network like BMR again, and I regret using BMR now.

I just cancelled my BMR subscription due to having 2 domains penalized from using the service.

Its worrying that you've been penalized. Thanks for letting us know.

I've raised a support request to ask BMR to remove my articles and will not subscribe. I just hope those ten articles out there don't damage my domain that they point to.

Thanks for your posts so far. It would be good to hear other points of view too.

Thanks

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OneManSEO

15 years ago

Interesting. I've been using BMR because I viewed it as a simpler way to submit to an "article directory". I mean that is what it is really.

I'm not going to freak out and cancel or delete posts...but I will allow my current month finish and then cancel. I still do regular article marketing, but I liked the added punch BMR was giving - though perhaps its not worth the risk.

I'm also not liking the added expense of paying writers.

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operandi

15 years ago

Just to let you know that BMR deleted my posts as requested in a friendly manner so they are certainly reputable.

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KarimPPC 15 years ago

Originally Posted by operandi

Just to let you know that BMR deleted my posts as requested in a friendly manner so they are certainly reputable.

ive had many sites that get removed and then jump back again. But never removed from site:domain.com though, if you cant find your site when searching using that and your site is established, that could be indicative of a manual review slap from google. Ususally what happens is that the site gets sent right at the end of serps for your target keywords and pages, and that's indicitive of a algorithmic penalty.

Whichever penalty it is, my experience has been going back and deleting links never solvs the problem. deleting links will not bring back your site.

It's hard for me to understand why after 10 posts your site get penalised, because it's very ususal, has there been any other shady linkbuilding you have been doing? perhaps something as far back as a month or so, which google has found and now penalised you for.
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attorneydavid

15 years ago

I really think Google is being very careful with any links now even high PR since JCPENNEY. Alot of people have observed negative results from fairly high PR links now. I think it's all link age related with new links have a logarythmic decay penalty of some sort stuck to them. Google's primary weapon against link spam seems to be link age. Google has lots of patents with logarthmic properties.

I think anything effective might get dinged if you do too much of it, but any penalty related to this should decay in time.

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bhuff85

15 years ago

While I personally haven't experienced anything like what's being mentioned in this thread, I do have to say that if you're solely using BMR as the ONLY way to build backlinks, then yes - there may be some risk involved.

It's all about diversifying your links. Build your links from various sources and methods. Don't rely on one method (or as they say, "putting your eggs in one basket").

Honestly though, I highly doubt that Google is targeting a small website that has 10 links from a link network like BMR. They've got better things to do and worry about.

On another note, I have used BMR and have seen one of my domains climb to #1 for two different search phrases with roughly 5k exact searches per month, and the traffic is starting to roll in as a result. While I diversify my link building methods, I'm pretty sure that it helped give it that extra boost I needed to get to the top.

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KarimPPC

15 years ago

Originally Posted by bhuff85

Honestly though, I highly doubt that Google is targeting a small website that has 10 links from a link network like BMR. They've got better things to do and worry about.

Yes and no,

yes in that I dont think 10 links from BMR will kill a site, likely some other blackhat stuff took place, that google crawled around the time your BMR articles got published. You would have to be pushing the blackhat ban line pretty close for 10 links from BMR to flip the edge.

No in that, I don't think OP was alluding to a manual ban for a micro niche site, and based on the talks I've had with major SEOs who are acquaintances of Matt Cutts, it seems that Google prefers algorithmic penalties then having staff do manual reviews for bans, they generally don't like doing manual reviews because it's indicative of poor algorithm, which is like putting a band aid over a wound, they like to do most of the stuff via algorithm.

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azmanar

15 years ago

Hi,

Like some others said, BMR sites are just for backlinking purpose ONLY. Nothing more. Humans don't read those sites. What they really want are SPIDERS.

While popular Article Directories are visited by HUMANS to do research and reading on many subjects. So their PR and backlinking have more value than BMRs.

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operandi

15 years ago

It's hard for me to understand why after 10 posts your site get penalised, because it's very ususal, has there been any other shady linkbuilding you have been doing? perhaps something as far back as a month or so, which google has found and now penalised you for.

There seems to be some confusion here. My site hasn't been penalized for the 10 backlinks from BMR (which have now been removed). It was akazo who has had his sites penalized. This is what he said:

I just cancelled my BMR subscription due to having 2 domains penalized from using the service. People who have never had this happen to them say that I just don't know how to do proper backlinking. Their argument is that Google won't penalize you for a few links or you could just create links to your competition and get them penalized.

My site is a large authority site with a wide range of inbound links (we are in Google News and have 3,000 indexed pages) but we wanted to use BMR to help boost specific articles from positions like page three to page one for highly competitive keywords.

THis is why I looked into the way BMR works and came to the conclusion that it is too risky for us to use them after all the hard work that we've put into our site over the last 5 years.

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arttse

15 years ago

Focus on white hat. Then there will be no issues.

Just write quality original content and get it syndicated by using syndication/distribution services such as www.thephantomwriters.com

ps. I have no affiliation with this service or with TPW.

Originally Posted by operandi

There seems to be some confusion here. My site hasn't been penalized for the 10 backlinks from BMR (which have now been removed). It was akazo who has had his sites penalized. This is what he said:

My site is a large authority site with a wide range of inbound links (we are in Google News and have 3,000 indexed pages) but we wanted to use BMR to help boost specific articles from positions like page three to page one for highly competitive keywords.

THis is why I looked into the way BMR works and came to the conclusion that it is too risky for us to use them after all the hard work that we've put into our site over the last 5 years.

Thanks
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ThomPhelps

15 years ago

Originally Posted by arttse

Focus on white hat. Then there will be no issues.

Just write quality original content and get it syndicated by using syndication/distribution services such as www.thephantomwriters.com

ps. I have no affiliation with this service or with TPW.

Trying to Manipulate your ranking in the SERP'S in any way according to Google is not "legitimate" or "white hat". According to Google you should not do back link building in any manner except to have great content people will WANT to link to. Even posting articles on Article Directories such as EzineArticles is trying to Manipulate your ranking in the SERP'S. Unless of course you aren't using your AD posts to build ranking by using anchor text, just to gain readership.

Google basically says that if you provide great content, people will naturally want to link to you. We know this is not true of course. You can have great content and people may never find your website to "link to your content" unless you do "back linking"! The very thing Google says you should not do.

So, back link building of any kind is not "white hat" according to Google.

Thanks
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packerfan

15 years ago

I'll be keeping an eye on this. I use BMR a lot and have seen good results. I have one PAGE that I'm solely using BMR to rank as an experiment. So I'll see how that goes.

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AuthorityRush

15 years ago

My thoughts on this whole footprint and Google thing. First off you need to understand any backlinking network leaves a footprint. If the G wanted, they could figure out 90 of BMRs network tomorrow without batting an eye lash and close it down. So what to do? (yes, I am a client, really!)

You can decide you will do only good in the world and not use a backlinking servce of any kind. You and your site will be nice and safe in the middle of suburbia somewhere. Who knows where because no one will ever see you.

Or you can grab your balls and jump into the game and play full court. Now I am sure a ton of people will start giving me junk#^$ about what I am saying here. But come on. If I have a new non-ranking site, what choice do you really have? -But Bill, create a great site with great content and you will....ugh! Give me a break already! I am NOT saying produce junk. What I am saying is that every site needs to be kick started unless you are super lucky.

Play the game or get off the court! Simple really.

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rinor81

15 years ago

Originally Posted by StreetBacon

My thoughts on this whole footprint and Google thing. First off you need to understand any backlinking network leaves a footprint. If the G wanted, they could figure out 90 of BMRs network tomorrow without batting an eye lash and close it down. So what to do? (yes, I am a client, really!)

You can decide you will do only good in the world and not use a backlinking servce of any kind. You and your site will be nice and safe in the middle of suburbia somewhere. Who knows where because no one will ever see you.

Or you can grab your balls and jump into the game and play full court. Now I am sure a ton of people will start giving me junk#^$ about what I am saying here. But come on. If I have a new non-ranking site, what choice do you really have? -But Bill, create a great site with great content and you will....ugh! Give me a break already! I am NOT saying produce junk. What I am saying is that every site needs to be kick started unless you are super lucky.

Play the game or get off the court! Simple really.

First time I found a negative thread about the service, a bit worrying but I agree with you.

Saying build a site with great content and people will link to you and so on is pretty on paper and that's it, it hold nothing in reality and is not true. Diversify your link building so it will look better than just links from BMR but being a nice site will get you no where.

Big sites buy links, do aggressive marketing and get their PR, they wouldn't have been there if they haven't done things different and with power in this industry. I'll keep using the service and see what happens since I already read about people whom the service helped for.

Good Luck all,

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dp40oz

15 years ago

Originally Posted by StreetBacon

My thoughts on this whole footprint and Google thing. First off you need to understand any backlinking network leaves a footprint. If the G wanted, they could figure out 90 of BMRs network tomorrow without batting an eye lash and close it down. So what to do? (yes, I am a client, really!)

You can decide you will do only good in the world and not use a backlinking servce of any kind. You and your site will be nice and safe in the middle of suburbia somewhere. Who knows where because no one will ever see you.

Or you can grab your balls and jump into the game and play full court. Now I am sure a ton of people will start giving me junk#^$ about what I am saying here. But come on. If I have a new non-ranking site, what choice do you really have? -But Bill, create a great site with great content and you will....ugh! Give me a break already! I am NOT saying produce junk. What I am saying is that every site needs to be kick started unless you are super lucky.

Play the game or get off the court! Simple really.

Amen brother! If you didn't say it I was gonna. "boohoo my site got slapped by Google for posting to BMR." Are you kidding me! PM me I'll get you unsandboxed and you'll apologize when in 3 weeks those links you thought penalized you end up getting you to the 1st page. "oh no Googles gonna reverse engineer the BMR network and slap every site that used it"...Really?! Who? Those big bad Google detectives in the Dick Tracy outfit. Get a grip people the worst thing that will possibly happen is the links will have less value. There is no such thing as a bad link. Even the spammiest of xrumer or scrapebox links hold value after a certain amount of time. Like this gentlemen said, grab your balls and get in the game or play it safe and be left behind. Btw BMR is already showing me results after 4 days.

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ThomPhelps

15 years ago

Originally Posted by dp40oz

Amen brother! If you didn't say it I was gonna. "boohoo my site got slapped by Google for posting to BMR." Are you kidding me! PM me I'll get you unsandboxed and you'll apologize when in 3 weeks those links you thought penalized you end up getting you to the 1st page. "oh no Googles gonna reverse engineer the BMR network and slap every site that used it"...Really?! Who? Those big bad Google detectives in the Dick Tracy outfit. Get a grip people the worst thing that will possibly happen is the links will have less value. There is no such thing as a bad link. Even the spammiest of xrumer or scrapebox links hold value after a certain amount of time. Like this gentlemen said, grab your balls and get in the game or play it safe and be left behind. Btw BMR is already showing me results after 4 days.

I have been doing SEO for 13 years and have many sites in the number 1 spot or first page of Google in very competitive markets.

I have never had any issues with doing SEO and started using BuildMyRank about 7 months ago.

Two sites which I list below:

Hair Loss Treatment - Hair Regrowth products (7 months old)
Best eReader - eReader Comparison (4 1/2 Months old)

It was with these two sites that I heavily used BMR. Both sites keep bouncing around in the SERP's. They go from page 1 and 2 for certain terms then every page on the site will drop to under 700. They stayed there for about 3 months and over the last 2 months have come up to rank then drop off to under 700 FOR EVERY PAGE on the site. This keeps happening about every 7 days like a cycle.

If this is not caused by BMR, then what is causing it? The only common thread is many posts from BMR. It must be some type of penalty.

Even the BMR staff said the usage of BMR may have caused this so they seem to believe it can happen.

I have been diversifying the link profile for both sites but it does not seem to be working yet to stabilize the sites in the SERP's.

I would appreciate any feedback as I have never seen volatility like this before using BMR.

Thanks
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bhuff85

15 years ago

Originally Posted by ThomPhelps

I have been doing SEO for 13 years and have many sites in the number 1 spot or first page of Google in very competitive markets.

I have never had any issues with doing SEO and started using BuildMyRank about 7 months ago.

Two sites which I list below:

Hair Loss Treatment - Hair Regrowth products (7 months old)
Best eReader - eReader Comparison (4 1/2 Months old)

It was with these two sites that I heavily used BMR. Both sites keep bouncing around in the SERP's. They go from page 1 and 2 for certain terms then every page on the site will drop to under 700. They stayed there for about 3 months and over the last 2 months have come up to rank then drop off to under 700 FOR EVERY PAGE on the site. This keeps happening about every 7 days like a cycle.

If this is not caused by BMR, then what is causing it? The only common thread is many posts from BMR. It must be some type of penalty.

Even the BMR staff said the usage of BMR may have caused this so they seem to believe it can happen.

I have been diversifying the link profile for both sites but it does not seem to be working yet to stabilize the sites in the SERP's.

I would appreciate any feedback as I have never seen volatility like this before using BMR.

Have you continued to make posts on these sites through today? My guess is that some of those links that got indexed when they were on the homepage of their high PR blogs may have fallen off and Google removed those links after they recrawled the site. That might not be the case, but it's something to think about, especially if you've let the site sit without adding more links to it.

BMR is great, but I utilize it in addition to other linking techniques to keep things balanced. Seems to work out well for me overall.

Thanks
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ThomPhelps

15 years ago

Actually posts have continued on a scheduled basis with BMR. I am also having backlinks built in a variety of other ways so it is not just with BMR. I have someone who works fulltime building backlinks to all of our websites. With these two sites however I started building backlinks with BMR first.

This would not explain why EVERY PAGE that is ranking gets dropped. If it were just the devaluing of links, it would be for specific pages and not the whole site so I just can't understand what is happening.

Thanks
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OneManSEO

15 years ago

Originally Posted by ThomPhelps

Actually posts have continued on a scheduled basis with BMR. I am also having backlinks built in a variety of other ways so it is not just with BMR. I have someone who works fulltime building backlinks to all of our websites. With these two sites however I started building backlinks with BMR first.

This would not explain why EVERY PAGE that is ranking gets dropped. If it were just the devaluing of links, it would be for specific pages and not the whole site so I just can't understand what is happening.

I would look into what your full-time backlink builder is doing. I use BMR for all sorts of projects and I've NEVER had a site fall.

Also, I have experienced a dance with websites when I post 7-10 a day right off the bat. The most I post now is 4-6 per day, with nearly all of my projects set at 1-3 a day. I've found tremendous success with this strategy over the last few months, so I decided stick with BMR.

Thanks
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ThomPhelps

15 years ago

Originally Posted by OneManSEO

I would look into what your full-time backlink builder is doing. I use BMR for all sorts of projects and I've NEVER had a site fall.

Also, I have experienced a dance with websites when I post 7-10 a day right off the bat. The most I post now is 4-6 per day, with nearly all of my projects set at 1-3 a day. I've found tremendous success with this strategy over the last few months, so I decided stick with BMR.

This was happening even before my link builder started building back links to these sites. My back link builder is building a wide variety of links types, blog commenting, bookmarking, directories, forums, profile links etc..

I have looked at everything for these two sites. The only thing I can determine is that the over usage of BMR has caused penalties over and over again. This is actually what the staff at BMR said as well. If it is not this, what else could it be as the rest of the back link profile is fine.

There is no question that if you start using BMR too early on a site before it has aged, it will cause issues. Not at first, but over time. You will see great results using BMR for the first few months of a new site but after 2 months you will drop off. Be very careful how you use BMR and don't over use it. I understand this much better now.

These two sites are also written in html rather than using Wordpress. Not sure if that could cause any issues. I have never had any issues with my html sites in the past and in fact, have top rankings with many of them.

I am just trying to figure out how to get these two sites out of this constant penalty. Can anyone see any issue with these sites other than backlinks? I would really appreciate any feedback from a fresh pair of eyes.

Thanks
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dp40oz

15 years ago

Personally I would love if you all go on believing BMR is going to hurt your websites. Please by all means. The less people using the service the better it will be for the rest of us.

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ThomPhelps

15 years ago

Originally Posted by dp40oz

Personally I would love if you all go on believing BMR is going to hurt your websites. Please by all means. The less people using the service the better it will be for the rest of us.

I never said that BMR would hurt a website. I am still using the service for many websites but doing it much slower. BMR is a great service if done correctly.

I can show you straight from the BMR staff where they told me that adding links with BMR to a new site too quickly WILL get the site penalized. If the site is aged it is much harder to hurt it.

I THINK this is what happened with these two sites of mine. I just thought by now that the penalty would have stopped. That is why I am asking if anyone can see anything else that could be the issue so I can know once and for all what is causing this.

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dp40oz

15 years ago

Originally Posted by ThomPhelps

I never said that BMR would hurt a website. I am still using the service for many websites but doing it much slower. BMR is a great service if done correctly.

I can show you straight from the BMR staff where they told me that adding links with BMR to a new site too quickly WILL get the site penalized. If the site is aged it is much harder to hurt it.

I THINK this is what happened with these two sites of mine. I just thought by now that the penalty would have stopped. That is why I am asking if anyone can see anything else that could be the issue so I can know once and for all what is causing this.

In your PM to me you said your penalty knocked your sites down to 700-800. I have never seen a backlink penalty sink a site so deep. I do tests on this stuff all the time. I purposely link the hell out of test sites to see what the limits are. The only time Ive ever heard of penalties that harsh come with manual reviews or Panda penalties. Did this happen to your sites anywhere around the time of June 6th-23rd? I know you expressed that you couldn't imagine that panda would have hit these sites but IT IS a real possibility. This last Panda update knocked countless sites into oblivion for no good reason. There are tons of legitimate Warriors on here who's sites had no business being penalized who were caught in this awful Panda 2.2 net.

If your sites don't fall into that date range then it wasn't Panda. I just think telling people "Don't use BMR on new sites" is just false. I do it all the time with great results every time. You've had an odd experience but you are also making huge assumptions.

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dp40oz

15 years ago

Originally Posted by ThomPhelps

I THINK this is what happened with these two sites of mine. I just thought by now that the penalty would have stopped. That is why I am asking if anyone can see anything else that could be the issue so I can know once and for all what is causing this.

Ok just so you know I have somewhat of a clue what I am talking about here is some proof. Here are 2 sites that were penalized for link building.

Notice the #200 on the left. These sites dropped in the low 200-300's.

Now here is a Panda penalized page. Notice the #500 on the left. This page got completely creamed by google dropping down into the 700-800's.

I have about a hundred other real proof studies about this. I have never seen backlinking penalties drop you that deep. There is always tons of misinformation going around on this forum with no proof. I test backlinking penalties almost everyday. Here is proof.

Also ALL backlinking penalties seem to decay. So if you still stand by that BMR did this to you then wait it out a month or so and you'll be right back on top.

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ThomPhelps

15 years ago

Originally Posted by dp40oz

I have about a hundred other real proof studies about this. I have never seen backlinking penalties drop you that deep. There is always tons of misinformation going around on this forum with no proof. I test backlinking penalties almost everyday. Here is proof.

Also ALL backlinking penalties seem to decay. So if you still stand by that BMR did this to you then wait it out a month or so and you'll be right back on top.

Thank you for such great info. I appreciate it.

OK, you may be right here. Here is the info on the sites as I tracked it:

hairlosstreatment411.com:

Launched: January 2011

Started using BMR and it was ranking after about 3 months which was March. This lasted for around 1 month which was April. In April it dropped to under 700 for 2 straight months until June 3 or so. It stayed ranking until June 11 where it dropped to under 800. It has been ranking and dropping ever since.

bestereader101.com:

Launched: February 2011

Started using BMR and it was ranking after about 1 months which was March. This lasted for around 1 month which was April. In April it dropped to under 700 for 2 straight months until June 18 or so. It stayed ranking until June 23 where it dropped to under 800. It has been ranking and dropping ever since.

Does this sound like Panda? If so, what is causing the issue as the sites are 100% unique and actually have great content.

Thanks
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dp40oz

15 years ago

Originally Posted by ThomPhelps

Thank you for such great info. I appreciate it.

OK, you may be right here. Here is the info on the sites as I tracked it:

hairlosstreatment411.com:

Launched: January 2011

Started using BMR and it was ranking after about 3 months which was March. This lasted for around 1 month which was April. In April it dropped to under 700 for 2 straight months until June 3 or so. It stayed ranking until June 11 where it dropped to under 800. It has been ranking and dropping ever since.

bestereader101.com:

Launched: February 2011

Started using BMR and it was ranking after about 1 months which was March. This lasted for around 1 month which was April. In April it dropped to under 700 for 2 straight months until June 18 or so. It stayed ranking until June 23 where it dropped to under 800. It has been ranking and dropping ever since.

Does this sound like Panda? If so, what is causing the issue as the sites are 100% unique and actually have great content.

Thom those are the classic Panda 1.0 and 2.2 dates. The two biggest Panda releases. When a new Panda update gets run some sites get "let out of prison" so to speak for a week or so while Googles servers update, then BAM right back into oblivion. I will 100% guarantee you this is Panda related.

Now the question is what to do? I HAVE NO CLUE! Panda is the biggest pile of s$*% algorithm ive seen. I don't know of anyone who has noticed the SERP's getting any better, they are just different now. This last Panda update killed tons of great quality sites while leaving tons of garbage. The only advice would be to really analyze your site and see why Panda choose those ones and try and tweak them. My 1 Panda penalized site has the exact some structure, backlinking, style of content as 15 of my other sites and yet only one was penalized. Somebody on this forum put it best. Panda is like a drunk man wielding a gun. There is no rhyme or reason to the madness just hope you don't get hit.

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ThomPhelps

15 years ago

Originally Posted by dp40oz

Thom those are the classic Panda 1.0 and 2.2 dates. The two biggest Panda releases. When a new Panda update gets run some sites get "let out of prison" so to speak for a week or so while Googles servers update, then BAM right back into oblivion. I will 100% guarantee you this is Panda related.

Now the question is what to do? I HAVE NO CLUE! Panda is the biggest pile of s$*% algorithm ive seen. I don't know of anyone who has noticed the SERP's getting any better, they are just different now. This last Panda update killed tons of great quality sites while leaving tons of garbage. The only advice would be to really analyze your site and see why Panda choose those ones and try and tweak them. My 1 Panda penalized site has the exact some structure, backlinking, style of content as 15 of my other sites and yet only one was penalized. Somebody on this forum put it best. Panda is like a drunk man wielding a gun. There is no rhyme or reason to the madness just hope you don't get hit.

Thank you.

So do you think changing the site structure maybe going to Wordpress might help somehow?

Thanks
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dp40oz

15 years ago

Originally Posted by ThomPhelps

Thank you.

So do you think changing the site structure maybe going to Wordpress might help somehow?

Some people on this forum are reporting that changing site design and other things have gotten them back up to the top very quickly. I tried this and it seems to have helped but for me it was more like going from #890-#465 so nothing great.

Just remember Panda is run manually every 4-6 weeks. Which means they won't take you out of the penalty box until the next Panda update is run. This is also a reason why Panda is just a terrible idea. So Panda can catch a site that supplies many people with their livelihoods in its garbage algorithm. Penalize them for over a month and then when the next update is run and cleaned up say "Oh sorry the last update wasn't tweaked well enough, sorry it took us a month to run it again and realize your site is fine and sorry for the thousands of dollars you lost and all the people you had to lay off. Oh and sorry to their families also. But I Matt Cutts still stand by this completely arrogant public relations nightmare.".....Sorry now im just venting.

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ThomPhelps

15 years ago

Originally Posted by dp40oz

Some people on this forum are reporting that changing site design and other things have gotten them back up to the top very quickly. I tried this and it seems to have helped but for me it was more like going from #890-#465 so nothing great.

Just remember Panda is run manually every 4-6 weeks. Which means they won't take you out of the penalty box until the next Panda update is run. This is also a reason why Panda is just a terrible idea. So Panda can catch a site that supplies many people with their livelihoods in its garbage algorithm. Penalize them for over a month and then when the next update is run and cleaned up say "Oh sorry the last update wasn't tweaked well enough, sorry it took us a month to run it again and realize your site is fine and sorry for the thousands of dollars you lost and all the people you had to lay off. Oh and sorry to their families also. But I Matt Cutts still stand by this completely arrogant public relations nightmare.".....Sorry now im just venting.

Thank you for all of your feedback!

I think I will try a new design. Maybe go to Wordpress for these sites. I hope it helps.

I agree with you about Panda being a terrible idea. It has caused havoc on some great sites and left us with a lot of junk in the SERP's. Not sure I understand. Oh well, not much we can do but adapt.

Thanks

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ThomPhelps

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Originally Posted by [B

dp40oz[/B]]Thank you.
Thom those are the classic Panda 1.0 and 2.2 dates. The two biggest Panda releases. When a new Panda update gets run some sites get "let out of prison" so to speak for a week or so while Googles servers update, then BAM right back into oblivion. I will 100% guarantee you this is Panda related.

Now the question is what to do? I HAVE NO CLUE! Panda is the biggest pile of s$*% algorithm ive seen. I don't know of anyone who has noticed the SERP's getting any better, they are just different now. This last Panda update killed tons of great quality sites while leaving tons of garbage. The only advice would be to really analyze your site and see why Panda choose those ones and try and tweak them. My 1 Panda penalized site has the exact some structure, backlinking, style of content as 15 of my other sites and yet only one was penalized. Somebody on this forum put it best. Panda is like a drunk man wielding a gun. There is no rhyme or reason to the madness just hope you don't get hit.

After looking at this further, I have another site:

wartrolreviewed.com

I didn't mention this site with the others but it is the third site I used BMR heavily with. It has also had issues staying in the SERP's.

wartrolreviewed.com was launched December 2010 so is now a full 7 months old. I used BMR heavily on this site and then started diversifying the link profile over the last 3 months.

This site also has had the same problems as the other two I mentioned. Here is the history:

Ranked on page 2 and 3 in the 2nd and 3rd month
Stayed for 2 months
Dropped for 1 month to 700
Added more articles
starting to climb back after 1 month
went up for one day 6/7/2011 and dropped back to 700 on 6/8/2011
Back again on 6/12/2011
Dropped on 6/22/2011 under 700
Back again on 6/29/2011
Dropped Under 1000 7/8/2011

This site keeps doing the same thing as the other two. It ranks and then drops off under 700 and now under 1000!

Unlike the other two sites this one has always been done in Wordpress so site structure is not an issue.

There can only be one reason this site is doing this, and that is the backlink profile is too heavily saturated with BMR links. What else could the reason be?

I have other sites started around the same time that I DID NOT use BMR very heavily and they have stayed in the rankings just fine.

If it is Panda, why didn't these other sites get hit like this? They are the same type of affiliate sites with the same basic structure.

Nothing else makes any sense except it must be the backlink profile.

Thanks

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doitex

15 years ago

Originally Posted by StreetBacon

But Bill, create a great site with great content and you will....ugh! Give me a break already! I am NOT saying produce junk. What I am saying is that every site needs to be kick started unless you are super lucky.

Play the game or get off the court! Simple really.

Yes, that "create a great site with great content and you will..." is strange... why Google introduced AdWords?

If I have option to pay to Google for AdWords then I have similar option to pay to somebody for backlinks. Thats the same.

But I agree that backlinks should be incorporated in relevant content - no spam.

Thanks

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arttse

15 years ago

Syndication is white hat.

You are not forcing anyone to link to your site.

They decide if your content is worth it or not for publication.

Originally Posted by ThomPhelps

Trying to Manipulate your ranking in the SERP'S in any way according to Google is not "legitimate" or "white hat". According to Google you should not do back link building in any manner except to have great content people will WANT to link to. Even posting articles on Article Directories such as EzineArticles is trying to Manipulate your ranking in the SERP'S. Unless of course you aren't using your AD posts to build ranking by using anchor text, just to gain readership.

Google basically says that if you provide great content, people will naturally want to link to you. We know this is not true of course. You can have great content and people may never find your website to "link to your content" unless you do "back linking"! The very thing Google says you should not do.

So, back link building of any kind is not "white hat" according to Google.

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nordicempire

15 years ago

In my opinion, you can´t get penalized, but the value of the links may be equal to nothing.

If you really could get penalized, what would stop a company from registering, and then send out tons of backlinks to there competitors thus sandboxing all competing webpages?

At worst, you are wasting your own money by using blog networks, but I dont think Google can take the risk of sandboxing pages just because of "bad" backlinks.

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MaverickUK

15 years ago

Thom, how heavily is your sites relying on BMR? Another possibility is that once your links from BMR domains drop off the front page, it may lose some value. Going from say a PR4 page to a PR0 page must have some effect on the links effectiveness.

If let's say 60%+ of your links are reliant on BMR, then I would seriously consider this as a possibility. Diversify your links and build as natural as possible link profile.

I also noticed that you only have about 40 links on wartrolreviewed.com, the other 500+ are from one website. You should try diversifying your links, too.

Thanks

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Adie

15 years ago

3) None of the posts had any adsense or adverts which is understandable as these leave a footprint, but how many real blogs do not use adverts or adsense. Every blog I see is desperate for revenue to pay for hosting etc. By not leaving a footprint, they create an enormous footprint across the whole site - uh oh!

Well, I have my own network of blogs for backlinking purpose and they don't have adsense (around 60)

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dp40oz 15 years ago

Yea Thom I would say you and BMR just don't get along. If you think its hurting you just cancel your subscription. Most of us have no problems with it so I don't think going around blaming BMR is a great thing to be doing. If it is BMR thats causing this for you then I would say its due to poor link building execution.

BMR should be 1 aspect of your link building. Think of it as the icing on the cake. For every 100 links I build to a page, i'd say 1 of them is from BMR. That 1 BMR link though usually has more power then the other 100 but it blends into the link portfolio nicely. Anytime you rely on one thing for all your links you are leaving your link portfolio open to look completely unnatural. I wouldn't blame BMR for that. If you used Xrumer, Scrapebox, AMR ect.. for your sole link building efforts you'd probably have big problems also. Diversify and this will be a non-issue.
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grotto_from_canada

15 years ago

Thanks good idea

Thanks

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