are you affected by Google Panda update Oct 13 2011

15 years ago

Originally Posted by trustumar

Today i have noticed changes in google. It seems google is rewarding aged authority sites and penalizing those who are using private blog networks. Is there anybody else who observed this change?

How do you know they were penalized for using a private blog network? I use a private blog network to give my websites a massive boost in the rankings and have yet to see a penalty for doing so.

Noticed changes in Google? Google is CONSTANTLY changing. For some various keywords that I am not actively targeting I see constant fluctuations in the rankings. However, with keywords that I am purposefully targeting and WANTING to rank in the SERPs all I have seen is a rise.

I have even seen a rise for some pages that I haven't actively promoted with backlinks, BUT I still want to rank for that specific keyword.

-- Jeff

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trustumar

15 years ago

Originally Posted by theverysmartguy

How do you know they were penalized for using a private blog network? I use a private blog network to give my websites a massive boost in the rankings and have yet to see a penalty for doing so.

-- Jeff

Today i have noticed 2 sites dropped a little. They both were using private blog networks as their main backlinking strategy.

1 is hereshowtoloseweightfast.com the other is in mortgage niche. Yesterday it was ranking @ #1 for their main keyword but today it is @ #5.

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theverysmartguy

15 years ago

Originally Posted by trustumar

Today i have noticed 2 sites dropped a little. They both were using private blog networks as their main backlinking strategy.

1 is hereshowtoloseweightfast.com the other is in mortgage niche. Yesterday it was ranking @ #1 for their main keyword but today it is @ #5.

Sorry but going from #1 down to #5 is not a penalization. It is just a standard rank fluctuation. Those are very very competitive niches, of course there is going to be fluctuations.

If it was a penalty for anything really then it would have gotten hit quite a bit harder than that.

-- Jeff

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wyuguy 15 years ago

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- WakondaMarketing 15 years ago
  
  In my case, my sites improved in rankings. I don't know why most of my fellow marketers' websites went down in rankings. Weird.
  
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- ttkim 15 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by wyuguy
  
  I think the problem is it keeps the top position for a long time. but suddenly it drop
  
  It's a competitive market so it will fluctuate.
  
  It was #3 a moment ago when I checked with scroogle, and now it's showing at #4. Scroogle also shows 1 site with 3 pages ahead of it so it's not like it's suddenly falling behind a series of other websites.
  
  Thanks
  
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  gagan 15 years ago
  
  May be there is some kind of a update in progress. A couple of my sites are down in serps. They are older sites ranging from one to five years. (have been quite steady in their rankings) The only thing I could find in common was that they were all updated with new content with in last week.
  
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  blogworker 15 years ago
  
  Today i have noticed changes in google. It seems google is rewarding aged authority sites and penalizing those who are using private blog networks
  
  really?
  i don't see. how do you get that information? what is the reason for doing this by Google? how to know sites are penalized due to using private blog network?
  
  Thanks
  
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socomplete

15 years ago

No, not really, all of my sites are doing pretty well, I submit everything manually with unique content.

You can out rank amazon easily if you know what your doing. Alot of those amazon listings are extensions.

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jackwebson 15 years ago

Whether you use blog networks or link wheels the result will still vary on each sites. Some may be successful and others may not. I did a lot of case studies and still I'm not relying on those as I believe that SEO is uncertain.

All we need to do is use white hat tactics and follow Google's rules for SEO.

Jack
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Rageki

15 years ago

Originally Posted by socomplete

No, not really, all of my sites are doing pretty well, I submit everything manually with unique content.

You can out rank amazon easily if you know what your doing. Alot of those amazon listings are extensions.

I agree; I see websites with only 10 backlinks rank out amazon.

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ttkim

15 years ago

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packjack

15 years ago

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karismasand 15 years ago

Hi,

If you don't try to trick Google everything will be fine. In less than a month i jump on page 3 for a keyword that have 135.000 exact US searches.

If you don't buy links, if you don't spam if you make all manual you don't have to worry about Panda Update.

Good luck !
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julianbooth123

15 years ago

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dadoc 15 years ago

I have seen a significant drop in a few sites today. Other sites no problem and another site increased in ranking.

We are all at the mercy of the Big G...
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- AuthorityDomains 15 years ago
  
  I've noticed changes to SERPs too for quite a lot of our sites.
  
  Not sure what the pattern is yet
  
  Some have adsense, others don't and both affected
  
  Some dropped a few places that were no1 for over 1 year
  
  Some dropped a page or 2
  
  Some longtail traffic also lost
  
  Some sites haven't moved and are still in the same position.
  
  These sites haven't had any new links or content for a while. They are all unique content and have good domain/page authority with age.
  
  Only thing is most of these sites are niches and on the same web host
  
  I have noticed that a lot of brand/merchant sites have had a boost.
  
  Hoping its a temporary measure as I don't really think the sites ranking above our sites are more 'Relevant' to the visitor.
  
  Thanks
  
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coronaborcalis

15 years ago

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bummed.out 15 years ago

Yes, all my sites have dropped in ranking; it's unfortunate, some were number 1, 2 and 3 for their main keyword. Seems I'm not the only one, if that's any consolation.

My hope is that this is only temporary, since it seems to have affected many of us, and that the sites will bounce back.

Anyone have more insights into this?
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webdesigndevelopment 15 years ago

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- TheFBGuy 15 years ago
  
  I thought was losing my mind or dreaming, some of my sites got destroyed, along with the ones who were at the top with me, yay Google, lol!!
  
  The annoying thing about these changes is they are silent and don't say anything, checked their blog and no news.
  
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BillyBacklinks

15 years ago

yeah ive noticed the same thing with most of my sites, a lot of the main keywords have dropped out , being replaced by wikipedia and amazon. My other lsi keywords have dropped a couple of places too.

Seems strange as these sites have unique and well written content and are pretty well established.

as per previous posts id just stick with what you're doing and id expect them to bounce back sometime soon

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princee

15 years ago

Originally Posted by peterjamesmorris

Having done a little more digging, I'm sure this is going to be very temporary.

I have a UK domain name, and a UK focussed site and my site dropped in Google.co.uk. However, I've just noticed that at the same time it has leaped up to the very top of Google.com some of the same keywords! Previously, my site was nowhere to be seen on Google.com (quite rightly since it is targetted to the UK).

I've never seen a country specific non-US domain at the top of Google.com for anything, let alone a competitive keyword like this.

In short, there's no way it is a permanent thing.

Yes i should also say this even since last some days around 1 month i am experiencing major up and down my one keyword which was on 1st page went on 3rd than 7th and than no where in 100 but now its back on its position.

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carp104

15 years ago

Hey guys,

For some strange reason when I checked my niche sites today my top adsense site apparently fell from #2 to #10 over night for its main keyword, and then my top amazon site fell to the 2nd page for all 5 of its top performing keywords. these sites are completely laid out differently and the only thing similar between them is the backlink strategy.

I dont get it, I never see my competitors bouncing around like this. It seems like if I leave the site alone for a while it will slowly climb then when I build some backlinks or add content to the site it will take a huge plunge sometime shortly after. I only build 1-2 backlinks to each site per day, if that.

I build 90% of my backlinks with BMR and throw in some profile and blog links every once in a while. This is very discouraging, as I dont have many niche sites and planned on building 4-5 more over the next month but if they are this unpredictable then what is the point?

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d0rhk 15 years ago

I had 3 sites go from #1-2 to #10+ overnight as well... Huge setback and disappointment.

There must have been an update last night with the search alrgorithm.. so many other people are commenting on the update.
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Alex Lin

15 years ago

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carp104

15 years ago

Do you all use Build My Rank for linkbuilding?

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Dellco

15 years ago

Originally Posted by carp104

Do you all use Build My Rank for linkbuilding?

I have a suspicion that Google has taken notice of the latest HOT trend in SEO, which is private blog networks, and they are cracking down by demoting most of the URLs that were propped up with them.

Most people (including myself) fell anywhere from 1-10 spots, but some are still in denial mode....

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remodeler

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Dellco

I have a suspicion that Google has taken notice of the latest HOT trend in SEO, which is private blog networks, and they are cracking down by demoting most of the URLs that were propped up with them.

Most people (including myself) fell anywhere from 1-10 spots, but some are still in denial mode....

I wish that were true because it would be an easy fix. Unfortunately, it's not the case. I've had sites with no linkbuilding fall as well as sites with plenty of linkbuilding going on.

It's all guesswork unless you're the google employee that knows exactly what they did.

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carp104 15 years ago

I have seen this happen as well and like you suggested, within a few days it usually goes back. However in the past it usually only happened to one site at a time, not all of them.

We will see what happens but in the meantime I think I need to build a better SEO strategy as well, as I probably have too many of my links coming from BMR and not enough diversity.
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ttkim

15 years ago

Originally Posted by peterjamesmorris

I use Build My Rank on 2 of my sites. Today one fell, and the other one shot up.

A blog network can produce pretty good quality links, but should only be a small part of a diverse backlink portfolio anyway.

I've only been doing this 6 months, but I've already seen this happen 3 times. Each time so far it's been a temporary shuffling of the SERPs while they apply some update, and after a few days everything goes back to normal usually with a nice increase in traffic as well.

Given that my UK site is suddenly and inexplicably ranking at the top of Google.com (despite having a UK domain name, and not being anywhere to be seen on Google.com yesterday) I'm thinking it will be the same story this time.

So let's just chill and see what happens. Maybe take the time to do something constructive like add some good quality new content to our sites.

I heard that Google is starting to drastically take into consideration your location. For example, a lot of people from the UK will see co.uk results, despite searching on Google.com and not Google.co.uk.

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d0rhk 15 years ago

The only sites that dropped were the ones I didn't use BMR on

I consider a drop of 2-5 spots normal. I'm only concerned with my sites that went from top 3 to page 3.
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wyuguy 15 years ago

I dont use BMR, but my sites are dropped too.
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- carp104 15 years ago
  
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36burrows

15 years ago

This has nothing to do with BMR or any other network.

Geez, it's funny how people just start making things up without having any proof or evidence of anything.

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paulgl

15 years ago

Originally Posted by 36burrows

This has nothing to do with BMR or any other network.

Geez, it's funny how people just start making things up without having any proof or evidence of anything.

LOL!!! Over time you will learn to just ignore some threads as they
will drive you crazy. Or you risk developing the "paulgl syndrome."

Sad, really. It gives the wrong impression of the WF from passer-bys.

That the majority of the forum is full of illogical complaining, whining,
blaming everything on that mean google and their algorithms.

Forgetting, of course, that search results are dynamic, constantly
changing, for various reasons.

Paul

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carp104

15 years ago

Originally Posted by paulgl

LOL!!! Over time you will learn to just ignore some threads as they
will drive you crazy. Or you risk developing the "paulgl syndrome."

Sad, really. It gives the wrong impression of the WF from passer-bys.

That the majority of the forum is full of illogical complaining, whining,
blaming everything on that mean google and their algorithms.

Forgetting, of course, that search results are dynamic, constantly
changing, for various reasons.

Paul

The intention of this thread wasn't really to "whine" but I want to see if anyone has experienced anything similar and what the cause might be.

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alistair

15 years ago

Originally Posted by 36burrows

This has nothing to do with BMR or any other network.

Geez, it's funny how people just start making things up without having any proof or evidence of anything.

I don't use any private networks or such like and some of my sites have dropped so you're probably right.

But seeing that your certain of what it hasn't got to do with even though yiou haven't produced any proof or any evidence and are probably guessing, then maybe you could inform us of what it has got to do with?

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bhuff85 15 years ago

I've seen a few drops on some of my sites, but just like peterjames said, just keep adding content and continue to build links. Sometimes, you just have to ride out the storm.

Eventually everything will come back together, and when it does, you may find out that your rankings are a bit higher than they were previously.
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HelenAbell 15 years ago

I seem to have got away relatively unscathed this time, but I'm investigating some 'suspects':

-Avoiding having "tag clouds" which have allegedly fallen from favour, as they look too much like keyword stuffing..
-Increasing encouragement of social media links and not relying so much on forum back links?
- No follow on forum posts on your site that don't have replies... until they get replies?
- Avoiding duplicate content - ie. where you publish blog posts, and also have published articles with some of the same content.
- Avoiding having internal Search Results - which allegedly fallen from favour as Google wants to be the god of search?

Anyone had any experience with any of these ideas? I'd be interested to hear?
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jonnyhardbaked 15 years ago

All have experienced the same scenario. That's pretty normal because I'm doing some adjustments regarding on this update and finding it effective (but not 100% yet).

I'm going to share it if I found out that it is effective. My site dropped almost 50+ in SERP but now its getting back on its feet again with a quite high level competition keyword.
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munstersg01 15 years ago

Fight on and continue to add fresh unique content and build better quality backlinks and more backlinks.

Analyze those websites that have moved up instead and what could be done to improve the affected websites.

In addition, explore ways at which traffic could be driven from alternative means. For example, posting articles to document sharing sites always gives me a boost in traffic for awhile.

Social book marking also helps a little.

For income wise provide a service or sell a product to make active income while still build on your sites for passive income.

Algorithm and system changes, it happens, don't give up
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- carp104 15 years ago
  
  It doesn't seem like any of my competitors moved much, just my sites fell considerably. I will just keep my fingers crossed this is just some simple SERP shuffling, although since many of you are reporting the same problem it might be more serious than that.
  
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Jiminy 15 years ago

One of my sites dropped big time, from #1 - #5 spots for multiple keywords, all the way to deep google pages, like page 3, 4, 9, etc..
This particular site was mostly promoted using web2.0, could be an indicator. Hopefully things will stable out.
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- dadoc 15 years ago
  
  could google be devaluing web 2.0?
  
  A lot of sites got hit....
  
  We always try to stay one step ahead of the Gman.
  
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steady 15 years ago

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- athenistic 15 years ago
  
  I had one site take a big drop, a few hold steady, and several went up.
  
  The site that dropped has of course taken a severe traffic hit - I'm down to about 20% of what I normally see.
  
  BUT the traffic I'm getting is much, much more targeted. I don't think I'm going to have a problem recovering from this. I can't see that this is some sort of punishment.
  
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treezie 15 years ago

Yeah my rankings dropped too. Not too much...one keyword from #1 to #2 (#1 is now wiki, which was #2 before). Another keyword went from #6 to #11. I'm seeing about a 40% drop in usual traffic today. Hopefully it's just temporary or else I'm going to have do a lot more work.
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- carp104 15 years ago
  
  My traffic dropped over 90% today - definitely not a good day
  
  I have noticed that it looks like amazon sub-pages and wiki pages have took the top spots over niche sites. This hints towards a permanent change
  
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networm 15 years ago
Looks like Google have another updates. I have all my sites drop in rankings and after few hours...2 of them recovered while the other 2 significantly drop until now.

Google is doing a continuous experiment on the search results with their algorithm.
Code:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5RZOU6vK4Q
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- scruffy77 15 years ago
  
  opposite is happening to me... 2 of my newest sites jumped up a lot, just 5-10 manual backlinks a day
  
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WatchTheThrone 15 years ago

i am also getting very few traffic today Like 1/3 for a normal friday. My site is in spanish, so the update also applied to other languages.

I hope things come back to normal in the next days
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Chiayee 15 years ago

Strange.

For one of my money sites, it was ranked in top three for many profitable keywords.

Earlier this month I got quality backlinks from PR7, PR6 and PR 5 pages. I did it via sponsorship, not with private blog network, forum profile network, blog commenting and other usual stuff you know. And, there are not many links (less than 20) on the same page where my site is listed. I've actually got those links via personal connections. As mentioned, the links are high quality.

Still this site got hit. My competitors, who used spammy link building tactics are ranked. higher.

WTF?
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- carp104 15 years ago
  
  It sure is going to be interesting to see if this blows over and how long it will take. Does anyone notice any difference what so ever on your sites that actually improved in the SERPS? What are you doing differently to these sites both on-page and off-page?
  
  Thanks
  
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  Dellco 15 years ago
  
  Everyone keeps saying they HOPE things will recover, but I think the chances of things going back to what they were just yesterday are very slim, since according to here, Matt Cutts really did admit there was an update.
  
  http://www.warriorforum.com/adsense-...ge-update.html
  
  My traffic levels have now gone down to the levels about one year ago. That's one year of work gone!
  
  Newbies here should take the hint, CHANGE is a constant with Google, so make sure - you know exactly, what you are signing up for.....
  
  Thanks
  
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ProdigyMike 15 years ago

I got caught up in a little bit of this as well. Sites that have been performing very well got hit a bit, still "on the map" though thankfully
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TheAdsenseGuy

15 years ago

Hey Guys-

My sites just took a big hit too. I had multiple page one rankings on each site. Have 17 adsense sites. Here's what I've been doing. Maybe we can figure this out.

Out of 17 sites, only 2 are still ranked in the top 3 positions of page 1 of google. The rest (including previously ranked subpages) have had their rankings drop from 1 page to 3 pages. They were previously on page 1 of Google. This all hapened today and today my adsense income dropped like a rock.

So check this out. Over 2 months ago, I rebuilt these sites for Panda. They have between 18-30 pages of content. They have Google Adsense on them. Each page has a 1000 word article, a youtube video, an outbound link to an authority site and at least 2 pictures on each page. And i didn't put crappy $5 articles on the pages - I used a "real" writer and paid $30 for EACH article! - So I have quality content. So I'm having a problem believing that this was an ONPAGE Google update. But who knows!

Regarding Backlinking: I've been a heavy user of ALN (Authority Link Network). That is the "free" High PR blog network. Other people on this thread have said they use different blog networks and are experiencing rankings drops today.

Other than that, I use Web 2.0 blogs, press releases, PAD file backlinks, ALN, social bookmarks. I DO NOT use forum profile backlinks.

When I look at the big picture it almost looks like if you have adsense on your site or affiliate links, you're getting penalized! Of course it's too early to tell, but in time we'll figure it out.

All I can say is that i think we should all start to slowly move away from SEO. I think that within the next couple of years it will become impossible to "game" the search engines any longer. Google is getting smarter and smarter every day.

For the past couple months I've been diversifiying online income away from Google - Have you?

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Dellco

15 years ago

Originally Posted by TheAdsenseGuy

Hey Guys-

My sites just took a big hit too. I had multiple page one rankings on each site. Have 17 adsense sites. Here's what I've been doing. Maybe we can figure this out.

Out of 17 sites, only 2 are still ranked in the top 3 positions of page 1 of google. The rest (including previously ranked subpages) have had their rankings drop from 1 page to 3 pages. They were previously on page 1 of Google. This all hapened today and today my adsense income dropped like a rock.

So check this out. Over 2 months ago, I rebuilt these sites for Panda. They have between 18-30 pages of content. They have Google Adsense on them. Each page has a 1000 word article, a youtube video, an outbound link to an authority site and at least 2 pictures on each page. And i didn't put crappy $5 articles on the pages - I used a "real" writer and paid $30 for EACH article! - So I have quality content. So I'm having a problem believing that this was an ONPAGE Google update. But who knows!

Regarding Backlinking: I've been a heavy user of ALN (Authority Link Network). That is the "free" High PR blog network. Other people on this thread have said they use different blog networks and are experiencing rankings drops today.

Other than that, I use Web 2.0 blogs, press releases, PAD file backlinks, ALN, social bookmarks. I DO NOT use forum profile backlinks.

When I look at the big picture it almost looks like if you have adsense on your site or affiliate links, you're getting penalized! Of course it's too early to tell, but in time we'll figure it out.

All I can say is that i think we should all start to slowly move away from SEO. I think that within the next couple of years it will become impossible to "game" the search engines any longer. Google is getting smarter and smarter every day.

For the past couple months I've been diversifiying online income away from Google - Have you?

And how have you managed to move your income away from Google, exactly? Short of ditching Adsense and SEO since both involve Google? Even your affiliate sales would mostly have to come from Google SERP traffic (or Adwords).....

This update was like a tsunami and even big guns that went unscathed in the previous Pandas, did not survive this one. And we can certainly expect more of this volatility in the coming months and years, yes.

The collateral damage is far bigger than what you would infer from the forums, as many guys who were doing well have opted to keep quiet. I did notice many sites that were like permanent fixtures at the top got dropped, anywhere from a few spots to several pages down!

Thanks

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juicebrenner 15 years ago

It's a never ending battle in getting ranks higher and higher. A race too with many others trying to reach the top as well for the same keyword. I've had a site dance around when I first apply SEO to a dormant keyword. It started in a better place then went back, then eventually started to climb. It can be mind boggling with the SERPs. Google is one that seems to keep me on my toes. It always a challenge in trying to figure out the updates to the "T". If it was that easy we'd all be #1. Just keep building quality links and the rewards will flow.
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Steve Faber

15 years ago

Has anyone else noticed a very large drop in traffic today? I lost between 60 and 70% of my traffic on 4 different sites since yesterday. The traffic is usually fairly even, and always takes a dip on Friday - Sunday, but this is extremely unusual.

They are in totally different niches, hosted on 3 different servers, at 3 different hosting companies. They are all different ages, 7 years, 2years, and 1.5 years old. I use Google analytics on two of them, and Sitemeter on the other two. Two are word press blogs, one is a static site built with a Yahoo site building tool, and one is a Moveable Type blog.

I've seen this happen on single sites before, but this is the first time I've seen such a large, almost instantaneous drop on 4 sites at once, especially 4 sites with such disparate characteristics.

None of them are really thin affiliate sites. One has over 600 pages, some of them quite long, of entirely unique and themed content, and one of the others has over 200 pages. I have noticed after a quick look at the analytics, that I lost a page or two for several keywords, but I haven't yet done an in-depth analysis.

Anybody else notice a big drop today? I wasn't really affected by panda at all, so although this is not unheard of, it is definitely unusual for me.

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networm 15 years ago

That's an effect of the newest update on G's algorithm, it started yesterday. A lot were affected, including few of my websites but there are those who recovered in hours.

I think someone already posted about this algorithm update...
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kidder

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Steve Faber

Has anyone else noticed a very large drop in traffic today? I lost between 60 and 70% of my traffic on 4 different sites since yesterday. The traffic is usually fairly even, and always takes a dip on Friday - Sunday, but this is extremely unusual.

They are in totally different niches, hosted on 3 different servers, at 3 different hosting companies. They are all different ages, 7 years, 2years, and 1.5 years old. I use Google analytics on two of them, and Sitemeter on the other two. Two are word press blogs, one is a static site built with a Yahoo site building tool, and one is a Moveable Type blog.

I've seen this happen on single sites before, but this is the first time I've seen such a large, almost instantaneous drop on 4 sites at once, especially 4 sites with such disparate characteristics.

None of them are really thin affiliate sites. One has over 600 pages, some of them quite long, of entirely unique and themed content, and one of the others has over 200 pages. I have noticed after a quick look at the analytics, that I lost a page or two for several keywords, but I haven't yet done an in-depth analysis.

Anybody else notice a big drop today? I wasn't really affected by panda at all, so although this is not unheard of, it is definitely unusual for me.

You almost have to wonder if Google is looking at whois data and high rankings, if you have multiple sites you take a hit. I've had 3 unrelated sites go down the tubes with this update.

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fated82

15 years ago

2 of my profitable sites are still ranking well on the serps for their main keywords. In fact, most of my sub keywords shot up to page 2 ( usually page 3-4). Here is what I did.

- about 800-1000 words article
- keyword density of 2.5% - 3%
- each page links out to authority site & internal pages
- backlinks from BMR to specific pages I want to rank.

Google's main objective is to provide quality content when users do a search, so as long as we do what Google wants, it should be fine.

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Chiayee 15 years ago

Originally Posted by fated82

Google's main objective is to provide quality content when users do a search, so as long as we do what Google wants, it should be fine.

Sorry, I beg to differ.

Many site are built with valuable contents and quality backlinks, and they got hit.

I can quote two affected sites in the last updates:

DaniWeb IT Discussion Community
Ask the Builder - The Home Improvement Resource

Both are aged authority sites, with tons of top notch articles and backlinks from other authority sites.
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- markowe 15 years ago
  
  Yep, I have seen this same thing - my best-performing site dropped to the no. 2 spot for its main keyword (been there all year) and all the other keywords got kicked back to page two. And this is in Google UK, btw.
  
  My site is a built-out minisite, i.e. started life as more or less an MFA but has been beefed up a lot. Very diverse backlink profile including articles (incl. from private high-PR blog networks but also AMR-type sites), PAD backlinks, manual blog comments, Web 2.0 pyramid etc. I could still see why Google MIGHT want that kind of site out of the SERPS, but it doesn't make sense because some of my much crappier micro-niche sites are still holding firm. Obviously we are hoping this is temporary, that's a big earnings hit for me (about 50% on that site)...
  
  Sure there are threads like this popping up every day, "what happened to my sites", and it's usually just someone's site moving around. But this time obviously something is up, there is too much similarity among the reports, so obviously we want to get to the bottom of it, that's why we do SEO.
  
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rinor81

15 years ago

Originally Posted by peterjamesmorris

Exact same strategy that I use, but my main site still took a hit. My main keywords are still ranking number 1, but most of my product name keywords that subpages were ranking for have suffered.

The main keywords, but of course the product name keywords convert better...

Same here.

Have one site that got hit hard, main keyword stayed on page 1 on top while all inner pages with sub-keywords are down a few pages....so hurts...other sites seems to be intact so far...

From what I read here there is no real pattern to what has happened and all sorts of sites got hit...guess there are too many factors and we'll never know, just need to keep on building links and adding content....any other ideas?

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Young Samurai 15 years ago

I'm not sure I can take much more of this.

I've 3 sites which have still not recovered from Panda.

One of them resurfaced with high page 1 rankings for 4 or 5 days a couple of weeks ago (and approx. 1K visitors per day and some very welcome sales) but then it disappeared again to the outer limits.

A fourth - my best selling until 2 days ago - had 11 pages on the first page of Google and had been untouched by Panda. As of this morning not one of those 11 keywords/pages are on page 1. They've all dropped to pages 2, 3 and 4.

This past few months have been very frustrating and this only compounds the problem.
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dagaul101 15 years ago

It could possibly be that some of the links you are using with BMR have been penalised and you are reaping some of that penalty
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JamesPenn

15 years ago

My health blog had one of it's best Google traffic days ever yesterday.

It's an aged four year old blog that publishes only unique, original content and generates backlinks using guest posts and other bloggers linking back.

My high traffic continued until the early hours of the morning (UK time) and then at 5am it took a right dive.

See the attached screenshot showing my traffic by hour.

I've updated my Market Samurai rank tracker and I have a mixture of about 40% of my target keywords losing ranking by 3-20 places, and 20% of my keywords going up in rankings.

Unfortunately, all my #1 ranked keywords took a dive to the second page, and all the keywords that increased were in positions 20+ originally and only went up a few places, so they didn't reach the first page.

I hope this update is temporary!

James

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razorhound

15 years ago

Yep, noticed some changes in SERP. 1/3 down from #1-2 to #7-10, 1/3 not affected, 1/3 went from #4-6 to #1-4. Competitors are either gone or moved down a few spots. Hope this is not permanent.

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coronaborcalis

15 years ago

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dadoc 15 years ago

I can't see this as being permanent...makes no sense unless G has lost its mind. Sites in a lot of my niches getting completely jumbled.
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Dellco

15 years ago

Originally Posted by coronaborcalis

If its would be permanent I will go out from this business and sell all my site that still earn money.

I never thought that losing ranking in search engine is more hurt than losing girlfriend

Maybe Google wants to hammer home the message that SERP rankings are anything but stable, unless you are Wikipedia or Amazon.

A lot of newbies think internet business is stable stuff.....Maybe 5 years ago it was so, but not any more....

In a single day, a lot of top rankings went poof......

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athenistic 15 years ago

I have 5 new sites that I've been testing BMR on. All sites are 2-4 months old, and I've been building secondary keyword back links to them. (not my main keywords. It might be a bit of a strange test.)

All have been steadily rising for their keywords. As of this morning, the one that was getting the most traffic out of the group dropped anywhere from 1 to 7 pages for every keyword that I was targeting, but the rest either remained stable or gained position.

So, I don't think that networks can be blamed.
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Bhutto2k

15 years ago

Most of my websites dropped average 2-3 spots yesterday. Google definitely did something at the back-end.

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royroy

15 years ago

although my main website (12 yrs age in competitive niche) dropped few places #4 to #9 but still i can see funny things happened, for example in one of my keyword #1 reserved as usual for brand name website and #2 guess what ? affiliate link ranked in #2 in very competitive KW with its CJ unmasked extension,
i think (hope this is not a wishful thinking) this a temporary because this insane from big G makes no sense and the guys over there they are just updating there algorithmic data ....

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rosesmark

15 years ago

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TheFBGuy

15 years ago

Looks like update is not done yet.

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rinor81

15 years ago

Well, I guess if it happened to so many people who do things in different ways it must be temporary, especially when I see sites which I'm sure are new and are EMD's on page 1 but still not deserve to be there and my site with all its keywords that I promote is down or vanished...

Guess we'll have to wait, see and follow...let's just hope it's temporary.

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FredJones

15 years ago

Yes there have been some shift in rankings. I see some massive improvements for bigger sites. Interestingly, from what I have seen so far, EZA has moved up (I mean, they may have gone down for all that I know but a few ones that I knew seem to have improved - I don't have much on EZA so I'm not talking about many) !!

And Amazon? That's what has taken all the gold away with it. What improvements !! And all for pages that sell with not much "information content". Wikipedia has remained as solid as ever of course, it was solid anyway so nothing surprising about that.

Originally Posted by rinor81

Well, I guess if it happened to so many people who do things in different ways it must be temporary, especially when I see sites which I'm sure are new and are EMD's on page 1 but still not deserve to be there and my site with all its keywords that I promote is down or vanished...

Guess we'll have to wait, see and follow...let's just hope it's temporary.

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gagan

15 years ago

All I see is big product stores and brands taking up first page.

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WealthyBlogger

15 years ago

Originally Posted by gagan

All I see is big product stores and brands taking up first page.

This is pretty much what I'm seeing as well. for a major key word, my ten year old site consistently ranked #4 and #5 on page 1 of Google.ca and Google.com on searches in Canada.

Yesterday and today, the top 3 are still the same as what they were (wikipedia, about.com's niche site and another older site), but the rest are all brands and stores now, on page 1. Those used to be on page 2.

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W.P. Allen

15 years ago

How 'bout them apples:

Google's an a$$hole.

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Craig McPherson 15 years ago

Originally Posted by W.P. Allen

How 'bout them apples:

Google's an a$.

OUCH!!!!

I have also had my sites pants pulled down and severely spanked.
I mean big time

It is times like this that your list comes to the rescue.

Soldier on
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kindsvater

15 years ago

My impression: to fight spam and junk pages Google has over-emphasized "trustworthy" sites regardless of their actual content.

Large brand sites are now controlling significantly more real estate at the top of the search listings.

It is not a content issue. Some of these sites, like eBay, are throwing up short pages, duplicate junk, and "doorway" pages as fast as they can to take advantage of the situation.

While what you would normally consider quality content sites are pushed down. I am seeing this over and over for various product searches.

Brand reputation rules.

.

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Cool Hand Luke

15 years ago

Originally Posted by kindsvater

My impression: to fight spam and junk pages Google has over-emphasized "trustworthy" sites regardless of their actual content.

Large brand sites are now controlling significantly more real estate at the top of the search listings.

It is not a content issue. Some of these sites, like eBay, are throwing up short pages, duplicate junk, and "doorway" pages as fast as they can to take advantage of the situation.

While what you would normally consider quality content sites are pushed down. I am seeing this over and over for various product searches.

Brand reputation rules.

.

This is exactly what I've been noticing too. For example, one of my sites in the electronic niche went from #5 to #9 for it's main keyword, bumped by several VERY low quality (low information and not very relevant to the search) pages by Cnet, Amazon, and a 3-year old article by Yahoo that isn't even related! All of these pages are of less use to potential visitors than mine. I'm seeing a LOT of junk pages secure 1st page positions as well.

Google is shooting itself in the foot with this one, A LOT of relevant content by a lot of different sites got pushed down. I'd expect them to be "rolling back" some of these changes soon.

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outwest

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Cool Hand Luke

This is exactly what I've been noticing too. For example, one of my sites in the electronic niche went from #5 to #9 for it's main keyword, bumped by several VERY low quality (low information and not very relevant to the search) pages by Cnet, Amazon, and a 3-year old article by Yahoo that isn't even related! All of these pages are of less use to potential visitors than mine. I'm seeing a LOT of junk pages secure 1st page positions as well.

Google is shooting itself in the foot with this one, A LOT of relevant content by a lot of different sites got pushed down. I'd expect them to be "rolling back" some of these changes soon.

Perhaps they dont know what the algorithm will do in action until they actually implement it, then they go back to the guys who wrote it and say, WTF is this garbage that this thing is pushing onto the first page

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vij

15 years ago

Originally Posted by peterjamesmorris

Yes, I'm seeing this too, although I'm also seeing one or too very poor sites mixed in too, including one that doesn't even work (you just get a 404 error when you click on the link).

I'm sure they aren't going to leave things like that. Just need to wait and see what happens in the next week

Happens everytime. They do an update and leave sh1t floating around and then they do a second sweep to tone things down. But what's to be seen is if the sweep is going to make things better or...

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kindsvater 15 years ago

Definitely some ranking changes since yesterday.

Seems to be a continuation of the trend this year in Google:

Big brand sites have a more significant presence at the top of search.

Maybe Google should be renamed the AWE: Amazon/Wikipedia/eBay search engine.

.
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davidrock011 15 years ago

Ok, I have a health niche blog with all unique high quality articles. The blog is 1 year old.
The funny thing is that yesterday I had all time record in organic traffic. However, this morning I had a big drop in rankings. 3 keywords that were ranked #1 dropped to 3,4 place. Some long tails moved to the second page.
I would say that I am on 50% than regular traffic.
The site uses Adsense (3 units on every page).

Hope it's not permanent....
:confused:
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JSProjects

15 years ago

Depends on the niche. Google, IMO, has always given a slight preference to aged / authority sites in broad & competitive niches. I haven't seen any changes on my end. But I mainly focus on micro niches.

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bummed.out

15 years ago

No change over here, yet. All site's rankings are still down. Sigh. Revenue is about a tenth of what it would normally be. If this is temporary, how long, typically, do such shifts last before things bounce back?

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pilotemt963

15 years ago

I have noticed a change in my rankings also. Two of my top sites moved from #1 to #4 and #5.

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pilotemt963

15 years ago

One thing I noticed is that the sites that moved up for my keywords, are newer domains and they have only a fraction of the links and link diversity.

I'm going to try adding more content on a regular basis for the next little while and keep building links. Hopefully it will even out eventually.

Thanks
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ZypreX

Banned 15 years ago

[DELETED]

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oox

15 years ago

Originally Posted by ZypreX

I too have seen good results in my newer sites, I think it is because of both good content AND low volume link building focusing on quality. This really works for me anyway, and even with the october 13 update I dident really feel anything.

OOO really, maybe i should buy into the links you're sellin and the same will happen for me as you seem to be beatin everyone else on here

lmao

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moverspacker 15 years ago

Hi,

There is not effect at our websites. All of our websites are working well and have same position
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mkl3377

15 years ago

Just from my sites, a lot of my EMD affiliate product sites were hit. Google seems to be bumbing the big product store sites up the serps.(another crackdown on Affiliate sites?) My adsense sites seem to have remained relatively the same.(knock on wood). Hopefully it is just a temporary shift and things will be back in a few days...(fingers crossed)

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crescendo

15 years ago

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bcmwp 15 years ago

I've noticed a large change as well, and so far today, I have about 1/3 the visits I normally have for a Friday (it's 6:42).

I googled my sites for their main keywords, and found they went from 1>2, 1>3, 2>9 and 3>8. These are sites that have held their position for over a year.

So, something's up. The ads are paying fine, but the problem seems to be traffic.
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WealthWithin

15 years ago

Yep. Definitely an update. Lost a few #1 rankings in few sites, one site went from 100 visits to 14 visits.

This is not the typical google dance.

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treezie

15 years ago

Apparently Matt Cutts tweeted about this update

Google Warns of Another Algorithm Update | Vortex Blog

And Brett over at Webmasterworld predicted it...

prediction: Florida-like Update Before End of Year Google SEO News and Discussion forum at WebmasterWorld

What you can do...

http://www.wordpressseomarketing.com...gorithm-update

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Jasonsc

15 years ago

My main KW has dropped from rank 6 to 27 overnight. My competitors still have their rankings on the first page. Really hope this is temporary...

All my secondary keywords dropped completely off anywhere near the top.

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treezie

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Jasonsc

My main KW has dropped from rank 6 to 27 overnight. My competitors still have their rankings on the first page. Really hope this is temporary...

All my secondary keywords dropped completely off anywhere near the top.

Have your competitors been in the Top 10 longer? That's what I noticed for one of my keywords too...that I was the only one that dropped. But I also knew that I was the newest addition to the Top 10. I was #4, now I'm #11.

My other keyword, #1, dropped to #2, with Wikipedia taking over the #1 spot.

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RayW

15 years ago

A couple of my sites have gone down 1-2 positions and a couple other have moved up 2-3 positions. Anyone have any idea what kind of sites the update has effected?

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ruff

15 years ago

I think this is definitely an update. The rankings on my new site started dropping last Thursday (it's Saturday morning right now in PH). Much like what was experienced by many of what I read here. The site is 2 months old, so I'm guessing that's not authority so it got a really massive hit. I already managed to get to 2nd page on a really competitive niche (I was very serious about this site) but right now all of my pages were gone in the Google rankings. Market Samurai can't even find a single page from 1000 search page results. T_T

They are still indexed though, so I guess I'll try to work on it more for a few months and hope for the best.

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InitialEffort

15 years ago

I still need a little more data but this is what I am finding.

1. High PR links got more value

2. Link Diversity Counted for more - Multiple IPs, Multiple Anchors, Mix of Text and Contextual

3. No Onpage Changes were noticeable

4. Aged sites got valued just a little bit more

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George Curtis 15 years ago

Initial Effort,

I definitely agree. We are seeing more value with high PR links.

It was just a matter of time before Google started more and more looking at the COMPLETE link profile. The algorithm has improved, obviously.

It is UNNATURAL to have a brand new site and 10 PR6s pointing to it. By the same token... it is also unnatural to have 10,000 forum profile links pointing to a domain.

Gimmicks do work, but only temporarily.
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SilentX 15 years ago

How did you come up with these results so quickly? Can you provide any background to give your claims weight? Not trying to say you're wrong, just curious how you come to make these statements.
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InTheMaking 15 years ago

My sites were fine, (Which are thin affiliat/cpa/adsense sites)

My brothers however who builds legitimate websites took a huge hit on 2 of his websites.

One of his websites I personally did about 20-25 high PR guest posting contextual backlinks for over a months time to move up a couple spots jumped back 1 spot further then it was at the beginning.

Another website (making $400 or more daily) completely disappeared.

I can't make anything of it..
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RayW 15 years ago

Along with updating their algorithm, i think they may also be testing out new SERP formats - I just did a search recently and there were 20 results displayed on the first page as opposed to the usual 10! Anyone else see this too?
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d0rhk

15 years ago

Im gonna have to agree with the OPs findings.

I had sites that were cemented in the #1, 2 spots that were there for over 5 months. I never did any high pr backlinking, just some weird spammy things I picked up when I started making sites. They were there up until last night.

The sites I did do high pr backlinking on, varied the link profile greatly and just generally did way better seo on, moved UP in the rankings... some went up +10 spots overnight

(micro niche sites i'm building)

Overall it looks like people who rely on spam tactics or just generally poor link building techniques are getting hit.. HARD.

Spam comments, spam profiles, etc etc are all being de-valued and to be honest, I think some people are hurting themselves either in the long run or short run. Some people think getting 24624721477 xrumer links will put them ahead when in reality it'll set them wayy back.

Anyways thats all my $0.02 so think what you want

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Dellco 15 years ago

I don't think spammy link building tactics are the main reason, I've observed some sites (not mine) that were stuck in the top 3 for YEARS, and they have very strong/varied backlink profiles, now ditched back to page 4 (and lost their sitelinks as well).

This mega update probably affected 25-50% of the Web. Just wait for the statistics.
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carp104

15 years ago

All of my sites fell 4 to 12 spots for all my targeted keywords, literally overnight I have virtually lost almost all my online income, both with adsense and amazon.

I used primarily BMR building 1 to 2 links daily to each site varying the anchor text. Threw in some forum profile and blog comment links once in a while, apparently this isnt enough

Whatever happened last night was FAR WORSE than the panda update

Can those of you with sites that have risen please elaborate on your backlink strategy a little more? How many and what types of links are you building?

Thanks
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bcmwp

15 years ago

Originally Posted by carp104

All of my sites fell 4 to 12 spots for all my targeted keywords, literally overnight I have virtually lost almost all my online income, both with adsense and amazon.

I used primarily BMR building 1 to 2 links daily to each site varying the anchor text. Threw in some forum profile and blog comment links once in a while, apparently this isnt enough

Whatever happened last night was FAR WORSE than the panda update

Can those of you with sites that have risen please elaborate on your backlink strategy a little more? How many and what types of links are you building?

What is BMR building?

Thanks
1 reply

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ProdigyMike

15 years ago

Originally Posted by bcmwp

What is BMR building?

I think he is referring to the use of the Build My Rank blog network.

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InitialEffort

15 years ago

I am currently managing rankings for over 100 clients, so I have a macro view of what is happening and can quickly assess and compare many different websites. About 75% of my clients are up or stayed the same and about 25% are down slightly with only 2-3 being hit hard. I know I use different link building techniques than most people have accessible to them, which is why I am seeing different results than most. I was expecting to login to the forums and see rejoicing, but I found just the opposite.

So I analyzed and compared the sites that got hit hard vs the sites that had a sight decrease vs the sites that stayed the same vs the increases.

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outwest

15 years ago

Originally Posted by InitialEffort

I am currently managing rankings for over 100 clients, so I have a macro view of what is happening and can quickly assess and compare many different websites. About 75% of my clients are up or stayed the same and about 25% are down slightly with only 2-3 being hit hard. I know I use different link building techniques than most people have accessible to them, which is why I am seeing different results than most. I was expecting to login to the forums and see rejoicing, but I found just the opposite.

So I analyzed and compared the sites that got hit hard vs the sites that had a sight decrease vs the sites that stayed the same vs the increases.

you say you analyzed , what was the reason you think the sites that got hit, got hit?

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theverysmartguy

15 years ago

Originally Posted by carp104

All of my sites fell 4 to 12 spots for all my targeted keywords, literally overnight I have virtually lost almost all my online income, both with adsense and amazon.

I used primarily BMR building 1 to 2 links daily to each site varying the anchor text. Threw in some forum profile and blog comment links once in a while, apparently this isnt enough

Whatever happened last night was FAR WORSE than the panda update

Can those of you with sites that have risen please elaborate on your backlink strategy a little more? How many and what types of links are you building?

To use BMR properly you should utilize all 10 links every day. Focus on ONE keyword term and one page until you get the ranks that you want for it. After you have obtained the rank you want then move on to the next keyword and page.

-- Jeff

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Love2Blog

15 years ago

Originally Posted by d0rhk

Im gonna have to agree with the OPs findings.

I had sites that were cemented in the #1, 2 spots that were there for over 5 months. I never did any high pr backlinking, just some weird spammy things I picked up when I started making sites. They were there up until last night.

The sites I did do high pr backlinking on, varied the link profile greatly and just generally did way better seo on, moved UP in the rankings... some went up +10 spots overnight

(micro niche sites i'm building)

Overall it looks like people who rely on spam tactics or just generally poor link building techniques are getting hit.. HARD.

Spam comments, spam profiles, etc etc are all being de-valued and to be honest, I think some people are hurting themselves either in the long run or short run. Some people think getting 24624721477 xrumer links will put them ahead when in reality it'll set them wayy back.

Anyways thats all my $0.02 so think what you want

You are totally right, Google is hitting those sites that use link schemes hard, they've been for some time and I think a new update is being worked on to weed out even more of theses tactics and those useless link bombs, xrumer, profiles, SEnuke...all very harmful and dangerous and should be avoided like the plague.

Links to money sites should never be so aggressive and manual and spammy.

Who else but the site owner would put up 5000 profile links to the same site, totally obvious!!!

Quality, Slow and Steady VS Quantity and Super Fast - that's the only way to go these days.

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vij

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Love2Blog

You are totally right, Google is hitting those sites that use link schemes hard, they've been for some time and I think a new update is being worked on to weed out even more of theses tactics and those useless link bombs, xrumer, profiles, SEnuke...all very harmful and dangerous and should be avoided like the plague.

Links to money sites should never be so aggressive and manual and spammy.

Who else but the site owner would put up 5000 profile links to the same site, totally obvious!!!

Quality, Slow and Steady VS Quantity and Super Fast - that's the only way to go these days.

Trust me - on an established site, the penalties cannot be given out so very obviously. Penalties can happen for what you are stating but if they start implementing that across the board like a 'perfect science' then people will be spamming their competitors out of business. Again, I am not saying that there cannot be link based penalties, but you get my point---I hope.

Now, this is relevant:
http://www.potpiegirl.com/2011/10/ho...rithm-changes/

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Rick B

15 years ago

Originally Posted by vij

Penalties can happen for what you are stating but if they start implementing that across the board like a 'perfect science' then people will be spamming their competitors out of business.

I agree with you that Google won't Penalize sites for spammy links because competitors could spam your site but what I'm convinced Google is doing is drastically discounting the value of spammy links if not totally ignoring them.

So sites that were benefiting from lots of those types of links simply lost their benefit in this update. They weren't punished, they just lost their ill-gotten gains.

I know there are people who don't feel that explains their particular situation. It's unlikely that is the only thing that this update targeted but it sure looks to me like that was the major factor.

There have been very few posts here about sites with mostly spammy backlinks that are unaffected or up in traffic. For those few I'd bet they are either sites that have something else Google really likes about them, the vast majority of their backlinks are of a type that Google hasn't targeted yet, the poster is a seller of spammy backlinks so the post is suspect or there's some other logical explanation that doesn't mean that spammy links weren't discounted.

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bhuff85 15 years ago

I have to disagree. I have a few sites that have some high quality, high PR links pointing to them (in addition to links from article directories, web 2.0 sites, social bookmarks and some directories), and some of these sites took a dip. I have other sites that stayed the same. Some sites are older, while others are more recently created.

Either way, I just keep on trucking. Seems when I keep rolling along, things eventually come back to shape. Just gotta keep on building links and adding content to your website.
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jonkjonk 15 years ago

Very interesting. I saw this earlier today and didn't make much of it given none of my sites moved much if at all.

THEN I went to check the SERPs and while I seem to have the same position, the competition has been shaken up massively... wow. I did some competitive analysis on a Guru to pick some of his niches when I started and he has lost his number 1s
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RayW

15 years ago

After looking at quite a few sites that moved up and down in rankings after this update, I can come to one common theme among sites that went down in rankings: high ads-to-content ratio. Sites with lots of affiliate links and not a lot of content seem to have definitely taken a hit.
I don't think the update has anything to do with high pr backlinks.

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RayW

15 years ago

Originally Posted by peterjamesmorris

Those sites may have been hit, but i disagree that its about the content.

My site that took a hit has about 20 articles, hand-written, original and over 1000 words each. There are only 3 links in each article. Thats about 25,000 words and only 60 links. Doesnt seem like that's excessive.

3 affiliate links per article isn't a lot?...

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InitialEffort

15 years ago

@raxr - I will disagree, we currently own the top slots for some keywords that get between 100,000 exact match searches to 5 million exact match searches per month. When I say top positions I mean 1 through 5. We have some sites with pop-up ads, exit pop-ups, 50 affiliate links on the homepage etc.

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outwest

15 years ago

Originally Posted by InitialEffort

@raxr - I will disagree, we currently own the top slots for some keywords that get between 100,000 exact match searches to 5 million exact match searches per month. When I say top positions I mean 1 through 5. We have some sites with pop-up ads, exit pop-ups, 50 affiliate links on the homepage etc.

Did you get hit , with this update ? Initial ?

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ro1h02n4 15 years ago

Yup. One of the sites that produce me almost 30% of my AdSense earnings is now on 7th position. Until yesterday it was 1st spot for several moths for the main keyword.
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- rinor81 15 years ago
  
  Guys,
  
  You are talking here about a fall of 1-3 places...from #2 to #7 and so on...
  
  One of my sites got hit hard at all its inner pages and keywords...want to know what hard means?
  
  Keyword that was #8 is now #45
  
  Keyword that was #5 is now #38
  
  Keyword that was #4 is now #11
  
  Keyword that was #8 is now #20
  
  Keyword that was #10-#11 is now #138!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  
  If anyone suffered the most of this Google crap it's me and this is a money site for me.
  
  Now what's my next move? Keep on building links and adding content? What's Google's next move?
  
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ruff 15 years ago

Well, my site is fairly new, about 2 months old but I thought I was building it right with good quality content and multi-tier linking. I was on 2nd page of Google for one of the terms I'm targeting, so I really thought I'm already getting there. Then suddenly, the site and all of the pages got kicked out of the rankings. Can't even find it within the 1000th results.

The site is not spammy on ads in any way. I don't even have Adsense on it because I would like to use Adsense only after the site is getting enough traffic - which it did not get to have.

The site does not have high PR links yet. Aside from being unnatural, I'm not into that point yet in my link building activities.

So there, with this 1 site I think Google punished me for being very new to the game and having no high PR links. My only plan right now is to keep adding content as I always have and keep building links as I always have too - maybe even get into building high PR links.

In my mind, I haven't done anything wrong so if this does not correct itself within a few months, I will have to reboot everything and maybe will be left a little discouraged about the system. I guess in a way, that's the comfortable thing about being new.
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Oranges 15 years ago

<rant>
I'm completely screwed! Lost all my rankings, earnings! Feels like i was struck by lightening. I hate this BS! Dammit And Hey! Matt cutts and all his gay buddies and nerdy engineers, can now go back and play with their dildos, as the algo update is over and people are screwed to death!
</rant>
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outwest

15 years ago

Strangely none of the THIN one or two page EMDs i bought for backlinking my resort site, and I mean most of these have like 10 backlinks dropped at all, and I at least have 10 of these sites

is there a theme like , most of the sites that dropped for you guys are product theme sites?
I mean that kind of defines the site as an affiliate site, even without the product links being there

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Dellco

15 years ago

Originally Posted by outwest

Strangely none of the THIN one or two page EMDs i bought for backlinking my resort site, and I mean most of these have like 10 backlinks dropped at all, and I at least have 10 of these sites

is there a theme like , most of the sites that dropped for you guys are product theme sites?
I mean that kind of defines the site as an affiliate site, even without the product links being there

If those thin sites have no monetization on them, I bet they are safe. I'm also seeing thin sites and even parked pages ranking well now.

It seems a common denominator for the sites that fell, is either using Adsense or affiliate links.

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rinor81 15 years ago

This is idiotic...

Why would Google downgrade a site with AdSense? They make their money from this...

One of my sites that got hit is an affiliate site with Amazon...
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JRemington

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Dellco

If those thin sites have no monetization on them, I bet they are safe. I'm also seeing thin sites and even parked pages ranking well now.

It seems a common denominator for the sites that fell, is either using Adsense or affiliate links.

Half of the sites on the net then, at least. Still, I have no idea why Google would penalise adsense sites, they are the main earners from it.

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Dellco

15 years ago

Originally Posted by JRemington

Half of the sites on the net then, at least. Still, I have no idea why Google would penalise adsense sites, they are the main earners from it.

It would make sense if you remember that the Adsense dept is separate from the Search department. What the Search department wants is different from what the Adsense dept wants.

The Adsense dept will always tell you to MAX out your ad units and even place them above the fold.

But you know, this will get you in trouble with the Search dept (excessive ads lead to penalties).

This is an internal conflict within Google.

And one more thing, Google doesn't really need the money from Adsense for Content (the ads displayed on publisher websites). They have been moving away from this since years ago, and they are flush with money.

Too much money.

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MikeFriedman

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Dellco

And one more thing, Google doesn't really need the money from Adsense for Content (the ads displayed on publisher websites). They have been moving away from this since years ago, and they are flush with money.

Too much money.

This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

That would be like Apple saying they are going to stop selling the iPad because they have plenty of money already.

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stelweb

15 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeFriedman

This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

That would be like Apple saying they are going to stop selling the iPad because they have plenty of money already.

But if you think hard and long about it, you will also realize that adsense is the impetus for a ton of sites that look like crap. I guess the search team recently had their last straw and decided to do something about it. On the other hand, there are plenty of sites using above the fold adsense ads and are also good quality sites. If they have been hit too, i would only call it collateral damage and that is such a shame.

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vij

15 years ago

Its an update. A lot of my sites have dropped 2-3 places. Some results for my keywords have funny results. I expect another rumble before the final settle(if you know what I mean).

From the horse's mouth

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rinor81 15 years ago

My update:

It seems my main keywords which lead to the home page of the sites are intact, maybe lost 1-2 spots but no more....but one of my sites which brings good money suffered when all my inner pages and sub-keywords got hit bad that I can't find them anywhere and they were on page 1 prior to the update.

Ideas now that we know this was an update? Keep building links and adding content as before??

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- rinor81 15 years ago
  
  Update 2:
  
  One of my money site which I've mentioned got hit the most, I found the inner pages and their keywords and I can't believe it....
  
  Keyword that was #8 is now #45
  
  Keyword that was #5 is now #38
  
  Keyword that was #4 is now #11
  
  Keyword that was #8 is now #20
  
  Keyword that was #10-#11 is now #138!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  
  Now what the hell do I need to do? Remember this is a site with good content, links built manually and it is my money site....what should I do now? I simply want to cry....
  
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Oranges

15 years ago

From $100/day to $13 today!
I hate this game!

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Dellco 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Oranges

From $100/day to $13 today!
I hate this game!

Big drop there. Not easy to build up to $100.

That's why it's called a GAME....

Adsense-SEO game is strictly for those who like torturing themselves.
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Mega B

15 years ago

Have noticed a few changes but nothing major,if you keep building quality links and adding decent content you wont have anything to worry about,yes they do fluctuate but if you want to stay up at the top you have to remember SEO is a ongoing job.

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dagaul101

15 years ago

Google has always rewarded aged sites, but now it becomes more apparent as it punishes those that attempt to get high rankings too quickly, and unnaturally

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Jasonsc

15 years ago

Today one of my keywords (I guess you'd call it my main keyword) for which I have an exact match domain came back. It had been 6th, then dropped to 27th yesterday and now today is 2nd. However I was ranking top page for two other keywords as well and these are nowhere to be seen.

However, I do notice many other sites rankingwell that I've never seen before. They have exact match domains for the keywords.
It doesn't make sense that this update would give more weight to exact match domains, because that could mean very low quality sites ranking well more reasily and undermining a lot of hard work by google thus far.

Awaiting further information...

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stelweb

15 years ago

I saw deeply into what is happening atm. I looked up some of the kw [ that has the potential to make more than 100 dollars per day] in google and find that some of the sites ranking at the top that were using adsense got hit. Their competitors who were not using CPC came up. I guess this is a war against sites that use CPC for monetization. On the other hand, i am sure not all sites that use CPC will get hit. Only those that fit a profile G has in mind.

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Oranges

15 years ago

Originally Posted by stelweb

I saw deeply into what is happening atm. I looked up some of the kw [ that has the potential to make more than 100 dollars per day] in google and find that some of the sites ranking at the top that were using adsense got hit. Their competitors who were not using CPC came up. I guess this is a war against sites that use CPC for monetization. On the other hand, i am sure not all sites that use CPC will get hit. Only those that fit a profile G has in mind.

That's Pure BS!
To me it looks like a random update to confuse webmasters with what exactly works and what doesn't when it comes to SEO. And that is all done to stop people putting their efforts on SEO and start buying their PPC crap!

"Hey! Shopping and holiday season is on the door, let's screw some webmasters and force 'em to use PPC.":rolleyes:

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Rukshan

15 years ago

Yeah SERP has decreased! Now I'm adding more quality content to all sites. Let's see

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Steve Faber

15 years ago

1) People that are saying Google is penalizing sites that use Adsense need to take a step back and get away from the crack pipe. That makes absolutely no sense. They may be penalizing sites that are similar to the MFA sites from 5 years ago, but to think that they are penalizing sites simply because they use GOOGLE's OWN ADVERTISING PROGRAM just doesn't hold water. That is G's primary revenue source, and they are far from stupid over there in Happy Valley.

What I've noticed:
Lost major traffic on 5 of the 8 sites in my main portfolio. One site that has been getting over 250 visitors a day for years is now getting about 50, and one that was getting over 300 is now getting about 40. These sites have very little in common. I've used a different backlink profile on them. Some I've used both SEOL and BMR on, some of them one or the other, and others neither one.

3 are WP blogs, 1 is a MoveableType blog, and one is a static site built with a Yahoo Sitebuilder tool. They are hosted at three different hosting companies, on 4 different servers, and are in 4 completely different niches.

Age is between 7 years and 1.5 years. One has over 12,000 natural backlinks and I've not used any of the backlink networks on it. That site has over 600 pages of totally unique content, and has links to it from several big name authority sites, such as The Wall Street Journal and The Washington Post, although these are a few years old. That site has also not been updated in a long time. Tracking is Sitemeter.

One of the others has over 200 pages of unique, high quality content, with images (but no video). It is over 2.5 years old, and has a fairly high bounce rate, but an average time on site of over 4 minutes, which is very high. It went from over 300 visitors a day to 75. That one I've used BMR and SEOL on, in addition to plenty of natural link building.

I use no forum or other profile links for backlinking on any of my sites.

I really see no correlation between the amount of content, site/domain age, backlinking profile, monetization, etc.

One of my WP blogs that has only about 50 pages, but all high quality content, saw very little effect. It has plenty of affiliate links on it, and I've used BMR and SEOL on it, in addition to lots of natural link building. It's been getting over 300 uniques a day, and it still looks to be doing so. I haven't posted on it since December 2010, however.

Yes, it sucks, and hopefully for smaller marketers they are not giving an edge to the larger, Fortune 1000 sites with well established brand names, but we'll just have to wait and see how ti all shakes out.

I would suggest getting a hold of a copy of Google's 2011 Handbook for Manual Reviewers and looking at exactly what they want their human reviewers to rank sites on, then do exactly that. Here is an interesting blog post from Pot Pie Girl, where you can find a link to download it. She makes a number of other interesting observations about Google's algo updates as well.
Google Algo Changes and Google Manual Reviews - How It Works | PotPieGirl.com

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stelweb

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Steve Faber

1) People that are saying Google is penalizing sites that use Adsense need to take a step back and get away from the crack pipe. That makes absolutely no sense. They may be penalizing sites that are similar to the MFA sites from 5 years ago, but to think that they are penalizing sites simply because they use GOOGLE's OWN ADVERTISING PROGRAM just doesn't hold water. That is G's primary revenue source, and they are far from stupid over there in Happy Valley.

What I've noticed:
Lost major traffic on 5 of the 8 sites in my main portfolio. One site that has been getting over 250 visitors a day for years is now getting about 50, and one that was getting over 300 is now getting about 40. These sites have very little in common. I've used a different backlink profile on them. Some I've used both SEOL and BMR on, some of them one or the other, and others neither one.

3 are WP blogs, 1 is a MoveableType blog, and one is a static site built with a Yahoo Sitebuilder tool. They are hosted at three different hosting companies, on 4 different servers, and are in 4 completely different niches.

Age is between 7 years and 1.5 years. One has over 12,000 natural backlinks and I've not used any of the backlink networks on it. That site has over 600 pages of totally unique content, and has links to it from several big name authority sites, such as The Wall Street Journal and The Washington Post, although these are a few years old. That site has also not been updated in a long time. Tracking is Sitemeter.

One of the others has over 200 pages of unique, high quality content, with images (but no video). It is over 2.5 years old, and has a fairly high bounce rate, but an average time on site of over 4 minutes, which is very high. It went from over 300 visitors a day to 75. That one I've used BMR and SEOL on, in addition to plenty of natural link building.

I use no forum or other profile links for backlinking on any of my sites.

I really see no correlation between the amount of content, site/domain age, backlinking profile, monetization, etc.

One of my WP blogs that has only about 50 pages, but all high quality content, saw very little effect. It has plenty of affiliate links on it, and I've used BMR and SEOL on it, in addition to lots of natural link building. It's been getting over 300 uniques a day, and it still looks to be doing so. I haven't posted on it since December 2010, however.

Yes, it sucks, and hopefully for smaller marketers they are not giving an edge to the larger, Fortune 1000 sites with well established brand names, but we'll just have to wait and see how ti all shakes out.

I would suggest getting a hold of a copy of Google's 2011 Handbook for Manual Reviewers and looking at exactly what they want their human reviewers to rank sites on, then do exactly that. Here is an interesting blog post from Pot Pie Girl, where you can find a link to download it. She makes a number of other interesting observations about Google's algo updates as well.
Google Algo Changes and Google Manual Reviews - How It Works | PotPieGirl.com

Why would you say adsense is their primary revenue source? It is NOT. They make most of their income through ads shown on search [ not through the publishers ]. As for the recent changes, i am not saying every site using adsense is prone to get hit. I suspect those that use above the fold ads have higher chances of getting hit. That is just my opinion.

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Steve Faber

15 years ago

Originally Posted by stelweb

Why would you say adsense is their primary revenue source? It is NOT. They make most of their income through ads shown on search [ not through the publishers ]. As for the recent changes, i am not saying every site using adsense is prone to get hit. I suspect those that use above the fold ads have higher chances of getting hit. That is just my opinion.

Sorry, you are correct in that, but they make a substantial amount of revenue from the Adsense program nonetheless. Also, Google advocates above the fold placement in their heat map documentation, why would they penalize it? Not that they've never done anything contradictory before, of course.

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stelweb

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Steve Faber

Sorry, you are correct in that, but they make a substantial amount of revenue from the Adsense program nonetheless. Also, Google advocates above the fold placement in their heat map documentation, why would they penalize it? Not that they've never done anything contradictory before, of course.

Google search and adsense are entirely different things. Adsense gives us the heat map while the search team despises above the fold ads that look like something shoved into the throat of the searchers. They tend to think that the leaderboard ads on the right top or ads on the sidebar are much better choices. And rightly so, wouldn't you say? By the way, my site got hit too and it was using Infolinks above the fold. I guess we just got to wait and see what happens.

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Steve Faber

15 years ago

Originally Posted by stelweb

Google search and adsense are entirely different things. Adsense gives us the heat map while the search team despises above the fold ads that look like something shoved into the throat of the searchers. They tend to think that the leaderboard ads on the right top or ads on the sidebar are much better choices. And rightly so, wouldn't you say? By the way, my site got hit too and it was using Infolinks above the fold. I guess we just got to wait and see what happens.

Yes, I know search and Adsense are entirely different things.

If what you say is true, maybe the right and left hand over it the big G don't know what each other are doing. It's not great that the Adsense team advocates one strategy, while the search team penalizes it. Counter productive, don't you think?

Originally Posted by Chiayee

Sorry, I beg to differ.

Many site are built with valuable contents and quality backlinks, and they got hit.

I can quote two affected sites in the last updates:

DaniWeb IT Discussion Community
Ask the Builder - The Home Improvement Resource

Both are aged authority sites, with tons of top notch articles and backlinks from other authority sites.

DaniWeb is a very well known and popular site, obviously not spammy at all, with a PR6 main page and an Alexa rank of under 1,500. It makes one wonder what G is really looking for with all this.

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bcmwp 15 years ago

Steve,

I had the exact same experience. My four biggest earning sites were all hit hard, and three of them had very little in common (two of them were fairly similar). One was a squeaky-white SBI! site with lots of pictures. Another was built out of an old micro niche site that had been doing especially well.

What I've noticed from what people are saying is that there seems to be no pattern at all to what happened. One of my sites should have absolutely aced any manual review, but got hit. People have had micro-nice, authority, young, old, grey hat, white hat, outlinking, not outlinking, adsense, non-adsense, etc. sites all slammed. There just seems to be no pattern, and I have no idea what to fix.
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- Jasonsc 15 years ago
  
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  cagliostro 15 years ago
  
  To add my situation to the puzzle:
  
  9 websites, all hosted in the same ip/server.
  
  My main $ website, 7 years old, gets now half of the traffic. And money.
  
  My other 5 years old (travel) website lost a lot of ranking. My main keyword went from page 2 to ... i have no idea where (not in top 100 searches). Other keywords went several pages back.
  
  Other projects i run are ok for the moment. All my websites are running Adsense and Analytics.
  
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Dellco

15 years ago

My portfolio is very diverse as well, and use HTML/WordPress/Joomla. Most got hit (mostly small hits....a few bigger ones). When you add them all up, it is BIG.

The only ones that were not touched were EMDs, and those NOT monetized at all. Yes, I have sites I make not for money.....strange as that may seem around here.

Google seems to have valued EMDs perhaps even more, with this nonsense update. Considering most EMD sites are nonsense....

All those that were hit have one thing in common - monetization.

People who cannot understand why would Google hit Adsense sites really do not understand ALL the motivations of Google and other huge global companies....and should not sneer at those who suggest so, because strange as that may seem, Google is not all about the money, as I've said before.

And for someone who has sites with no monetization, I can understand why. Google definitely has their own agendas. Just (one) agenda can be seen here - Google.org - Google Technology-Driven Philanthropy

I'm willing to bet very few guys here even know about this. Google does not promote it at all.

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natethegreat7037

15 years ago

It cracks me up how much this update throws everyone into a frenzy. And then start suggesting all of these solutions to help fight it (I've seen about 18 different remedies).

First off, Google makes an absolute killing off of their ad sales so why would they punish people who promote them? In case you forgot, Google makes about 49% of the cpc...and you do the work promoting the traffic. Why would they stop doing that?? Here's an excerpt from Barrons, which mentions how google crushed wall street expectations:

Bottom-line earnings per share were reported at $9.72, significantly better than the Street/our estimates at $8.74/$8.92.
The 28% paid click growth in the third quarter was the highest paid click growth reported since the fourth-quarter of 2007 on our estimates. While there is likely a mix shift coming from more mobile searches, international and AdSense partners, the paid click growth was impressive.
With the higher volume and mix shift, cost per click was lower as a result, up 5% year-over-year (or down 3% excluding foreign exchange).
Mobile advertising continues to be a strong growth driver and likely drove a significant ramp in 28% paid click growth. Considering the near-term focus is on building the critical mass of mobile search than monetization, we think the $2.5 billion run rate signals that we are at an inflection point of mobile volume growth.
Display advertising continues to grow strongly and Google noted that its top 20 customers are now spending an average of $15 million compared to just $2 million in 2009.

So, it seems Google is just focusing on ways to EXPAND their advertising reach...Hm. After all, I've never seen a ton of insects in a tiny spider web.

So, here's a question: How does paid click growth happen? Chances are, you guessed it right.

Just ride it out for a few days, before getting hysterical.

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TheFBGuy 15 years ago

This little site with 9 high quality unique articles survived every Panda update... never thought I would see this day. That little site was as white hat as it gets. That's why I don't waste time building these large sites, but micro niche sites. Seems like this update has no regard for whatever you do whether it's white hat or black hat, so it's not clear what Google's main objective is so far.

Still accessing the situation... and what the next course of action should be. What are the new rules now? I really thought I had SEO figured out, damn. Any statement from Google?
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Texjd

15 years ago

Ran my reports this morning and about gagged on my coffee. The traffic was down across the board. My webiste are very diverse and many are 7-8 year old authorty sites that get a steady flow of fresh content that's all real deal. I don't use writers and most of my websites are about my areas of knowledge.

I went and checked a few serps and many of my #1 are now #5 or 6. Nothing disappeared nor got de-ndexed. My websites are diverse as you can get on different categories, format, location, and linkng.

Based on about an hour of analysis I see no one or even a couple of common factors.

I've been through this many times and I just continue to do what I do since I have no idea what the cause is at this point. Traffic down by 2/3, same with revenue.

I'm still on the frontpage so there is hope the websites will recover, but who knows.

I'm going forget about it for today and go on with my work and play.

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InitialEffort

15 years ago

Looks like my thread my merged, I also like how someone is reusing the heart image I made. Good stuff.

But my sites were relatively untouched as I described. I am very pleased with this update.

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dp40oz

15 years ago

Many people are running around like a chicken with their head cut off looking for answers as to why their sites got slapped in this last Google update. I completely understand, having a site/sites that you've put tons of work into get pushed down in the rankings is a terrible feeling and can be financially crippling, I have, and I constantly do experience this first hand.

The Reality

- Many Google SERP changes are there solely to help hide their algorithm.

They will push pages around to ensure that there is no absolute way to game rankings. Even if your page is aged and backlinked well. This has been a main job of Panda. Its not always that theres anything wrong.

- Panda's rules are there because thats what Google would like your site to be, its not necessarily what panda looks at though

Comparing sites with many colleagues over all the different Panda algos has left many of us with the same conclusion. The rules Google has told us will keep us safe are just their way of trying to get us all to "fall in line". Many great sites that follow every rule that Panda should like and reward, get penalized, just like many sites that break all rules stay at the top. Panda doesn't do what Google tells us it does.

- The rules are highly subjective as to keep us guessing and to give Google an excuse as to why sites were punished

With the rules set in place Google could make an argument that any site in the world could or should be penalized. Google could claim Apple.com has too much duplicate content, or pages with too little content if it wanted to.

- Don't kill yourself looking for answers

With any SERP change your site can come back in a few weeks and never be penalized again. On the other hand you may constantly be in a back and forth swing... who knows.

When it has been stated publicly that the algorithm has elements built in to keep you guessing, then trying to look for answers like 1 + 1 =2 is pointless. For site A, 1 + 1=2 about 90% of the time but for site B 1 + 1=2, 20% of the time. Its no fun for us but its how these things work.

It is what it is. SEO is a wild ride. To sustain a living, my advice is to have many different sites. Also developing a few tricks up your sleeve never hurts also.

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ElectronPlumber

15 years ago

Let's use the tremendous wisdom and experience on this forum to figure out EXACTLY what Google changed in their algorithm in the Halloween Massacre SERP update. Admins, please don't lump this thread in with the "Anyone Noticed Changes In Google SERPS" discussion that is mostly just people complaining.

Post what you know that can help this effort! If you have five sites that went down and five that weren't, please post EVERY DETAIL about the differences that you can think of.

Please post DETAILS of your experience and lets see if collectively figure this out. I'll keep this list updated as more people post.

FACTS:

There was a wide reaching algorithm update on October 14th at around 2am.
The change was confirmed by Matt Cutts via a Tweet, although not the wide reach.

SPECULATION:

On page SEO factors were reduced in value.
Proper spelling and grammar increased in value.
High PR backlinks increased in value.
Internal linking decreased in value.
Exact Match Domains increased in value.
Adsense and Ads decreased in value.

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stelweb 15 years ago

One of my sites got affected [say site1] while the other [let us call it site 2] did not. Actually, the traffic for site2 is up 400 percent.

Here are the differences:

site1:
1. monetized with CPC
2. crap comment links
3. decent content

site2:

1.not monetized yet
2.has only a few links [just directory submissions]
3.excellent content created by experienced professionals in the field [not professional writers]
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ElectronPlumber 15 years ago

My Experience:

Site #1:
One of my oldest and best sites was hit with now 50% lower traffic. I had done very little backlinking on this site other than some social media and manual blog commenting. It has about 600 pages of manual high quality content and is regularly updated. Many keywords that were ranking #1-3 are now ranking #3-7 instead.

What I noticed is that the few pages that have diverse external backlinks mostly maintained their positions. Pages with nothing other than internal backlinks dropped dramatically for their targeted keywords.

The site had Google Analytics and an approx 50% bounce rate, as it was heavily targeted to driving people off the page to Amazon.

Sites #2-5:
The sites used for my backlinking experiment all increased in value FOR THE MAIN PAGE that had 90% of the backlinking for the keyword that had been backlinked. All the other pages that relied on internal links and had no backlinks dropped dramatically. Almost all long tail keyword traffic due to on page factors died.

Sites #5-10:
Similar as the others, pages with external keyword focused backlinks regardless of the quality of the links (profile, blog comment, etc) stayed about the same, pages that had no external backlinks are no longer getting long tail keyword love.
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athenistic 15 years ago

[DELETED]

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- Charley Brown 15 years ago
  
  It should be interesting to see how this all plays out, but it looks like having quality articles on your site may be very important.
  
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outwest 15 years ago

The feedback I have read seems to say its more about high PR backlinks or having deep varied backlinks, and if you did not you got booted

then again some people insist thats the reason they got booted and google was targeting high PR backlink networks
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WealthyBlogger

15 years ago

Originally Posted by ElectronPlumber

Let's use the tremendous wisdom and experience on this forum to figure out EXACTLY what Google changed in their algorithm in the Halloween Massacre SERP update. Admins, please don't lump this thread in with the "Anyone Noticed Changes In Google SERPS" discussion that is mostly just people complaining.

Hey! I was one who started one of those threads... and I wasn't complaining

I was wondering about an observation and wanted to know if anyone else was experiencing the same thing.

But... to carry on there...

We have two sites that are both very old... ten years old. Get good traffic, lots of backlinks from both relevant and non-relevant websites all over the internet.

Interestingly, site #1:

The other day, Google Webmaster Tools was reporting about 18,500 backlinks. Today, Webmaster Tools is reporting a drop of about 1,000 backlinks.

Ranked highly on Google.CA and on .COM (searches within Canada) for major search terms in the site's niche up until two days ago. Didn't check yesterday, but Analytics shows a drop of 50% traffic from what is normal, yesterday.

Today, those same searches show site #1 on page two for those search terms, however some locations such as Vancouver BC, some search terms are still showing on page 1, but further down.

Some of the new sites on Page 1 of google are a bit odd to me. An online store for one, that has little content. As well, some brands in the niche that have always been on page 2 or 3 for this search term now occupy spots on page 1.

My site has TONS of content that has been built up over ten years. It is quality content.

Originally, it was a "directory" and "content" site, but with more of a focus on content.

What I have recently done:

Removed many of the outgoing links to other sites (over time, many of them had become dead so two weeks ago, I did a major clean up of those).

Added a new business directory as a subsection of the site, which added about 10,000 pages to the website.

Done some heav(ier) backlinking in the past month.

Cleaned up some duplicate meta descriptions that I discovered.

Interestingly - as I began to do this work, my site increased it's rank on page 1 for the major search term. Appeared I was doing everything Google was wanting me to do.

This site does have a lot of Google Adsense on it - we've used the maximum number of adblocks per page. If I don't, I keep getting messages from Google that I am "missing out on opportunities" - but I'm thinking that this is why my site took a big drop.

But if that is the case, it's odd that one part of Google is encouraging me to use the maximum number of Adsense blocks, while the other part of Google is penalizing me for that.

At this point, I'm thinking I'm just going to wait a couple of days and see what happens - I've seen situations like this with other web properties I have where they take a sudden dip, and then come back even stronger in the SERP's than before.

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amoeba 15 years ago

seems like google is really emphasizing on content quality over quantity. somewhere i read that Google is now giving less importance to bounce rate. but i have experienced exactly opposite of that.
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davidtong

15 years ago

@FBGuy: I'm no SEO expert, if you find something (like what the change was exactly), please do let us know. Much thanks.

*sigh* just when I started to figure out opt-in forms and consistent blog posting.

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coronaborcalis

15 years ago

Here is overview of my site that got hits and its written really well because I'm hiring professional writer to write content to make sure that visitor will gets what they are looking for and since lot of website reviewing my site organically so I don't make any backlink for the site and it was there on position one for year. But now drop like a stone

This one is really poor site that made for adsense and I only have couple article for this site and If I were visitor I will close the website in a second because its pointless site. For backlink I use spammy trick. but see the spike of the traffic.

So this statement is really true

When it has been stated publicly that the algorithm has elements built in to keep you guessing, then trying to look for answers like 1 + 1 =2 is pointless. For site A, 1 + 1=2 about 90% of the time but for site B 1 + 1=2, 20% of the time. Its no fun for us but its how these things work.

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Phil72

15 years ago

For no reason other than to join in on the global self commiseration... here is what happened to one of my sites I had been building up for nearly a year....

img822.imageshack.us/img822/1680/trafficdrop.jpg

300-400 per day down to 40-50 per day - with Adsense earnings following suit.

Thank you Google, though you simply run a search engine and we have no reason to expect free traffic from you, I still want to kick you in the nuts.

Commiserations all, I'm off to drink a lot of beer.

Thanks

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davidtong

15 years ago

I have a product review that has been ranking at #1 for a year at least, practically since the item came out... Lots of traffic to it etc...

Overnight, 2 Amazon listings + 2 lousy Youtube Videos outrank my long review.

I wonder if they're penalizing or 'disliking' pages with affiliate links.

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mekap04

15 years ago

Woah I thought my main site was just experiencing the Google dance but it may be something more. One of my sites also saw a drop in rankings and earnings as well -_-. Most keywords dropped 10 spots and a couple past 50+. This sucks cause I was experiencing my highest earning days this week. Hope it just temporary.

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TotalGaz

15 years ago

Originally Posted by peterjamesmorris

I have a UK domain name, and a UK focussed site and my site dropped in Google.co.uk. However, I've just noticed that at the same time it has leaped up to the very top of Google.com some of the same keywords! Previously, my site was nowhere to be seen on Google.com (quite rightly since it is targetted to the UK).

I've never seen a country specific non-US domain at the top of Google.com for anything, let alone a competitive keyword like this.

Same hing has happened to my UK domain. Was sitting nicely at #1 for google.co.uk dropped to 7 and jumped to #3 for google.com I picked it up with big drop in adsense earnings cos drop in placement. really hope it is temporary

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Zibblu

15 years ago

I've recently experienced the same thing ... I went from #8 to #175 for my main keyword on Google.com ... but on Google.ca I'm at #1! (which I think is actually an increase of a couple of spots, but I haven't been watching it closely as I only get a trickle from .ca vs. com)

Also my site is a .US so obviously it should be aimed at the .com/US market.. eh? (domain whois is in the US too...)

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wyuguy

15 years ago

I would like to know if the dropped domain is dead no chance to recovery ?
should we better start new domain from the very begining that make me crazy.

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uski

15 years ago

Calm down people. This is just a phase

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wolfmmiii 15 years ago

Originally Posted by uski

Calm down people. This is just a phase

Easier said than done. There are some of us that are making $xxx to $xxxx per day. This means that every day that passes, we miss out on that income.

I, myself, am not panicking yet. I'm just going to sit tight for a few days and let things settle. Then, I'll plot a course of action.
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retsek

15 years ago

Well my 5 biggest sites got a left hook from Panda 2.5
First time I've noticed any Panda related effects since February.

These are all quality, authority sites. Tons of long, unique and well written content you can't find anywhere else.

The main keywords on each site haven't budged. These are all 100,000 to 250,000 Exact Match.

All of the thousands on long tail keywords i used to rank for are now gone. That's 60% of my traffic!

What the frack does Google want?

I have other thin affiliate sites that weren't affected. One good example, is a 5 page site, 200 words each -- Making $150 per day with adsense. What the ****?

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outwest 15 years ago

so google doesnt want us to rank for long tails now? unless we backlink the crap out of them? how to do that on so many longtails?
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- Tina Golden 15 years ago
  
  Give it 2-4 weeks to level out. There is always some shaking up immediately after an update but the cream rises back to the top.
  
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Greenfatman

15 years ago

Nothing is safe anymore on google...I think facebook is changing the google way to rank sites,facebook is getting more and more traffic and Google is trying to get this traffic back ranking different sites on the top, if not working in few weeks they change the first page again, maybe your site will be back if the one is on the top doesn't bring views and traffic and they're spinning like that all the time.
Does it matter if you have quality content?

Yes it does in fact they swap the first spot with another quality site, it can be just to test or permanently.

How you SEO the whole thing?

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JRCarson

15 years ago

Yeah, I think the big question is are you doing questionable back-linking methods?

Otherwise...

You'll be back up in the rankings. They might have tweaked the algorithm to a point where all those pages don't look as strong until re-proven over a certain amount of time/visitors.

I've heard a few stories of people with massive sites that have gotten hit in the past (Panda and before) that just kept on writing and they came back into the rankings even stronger.

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retsek

15 years ago

Originally Posted by JRCarson

Yeah, I think the big question is are you doing questionable back-linking methods?

Otherwise...

You'll be back up in the rankings. They might have tweaked the algorithm to a point where all those pages don't look as strong until re-proven over a certain amount of time/visitors.

I've heard a few stories of people with massive sites that have gotten hit in the past (Panda and before) that just kept on writing and they came back into the rankings even stronger.

That's just the thing. On 3 of the sites, content has been written extensively on the topics. Any NEW posts will not add any significant value since everything is already been covered. This is why the sites were killing it in the long tail searches as well as the main keywords.

So is that what everyone else does? Say the same things over and over, just totally differently?

Also..

I've dealt with backlink penalties, reconsideration requests before since I have alot of sites. This isn't that. If it were a manual or automatic penalty the effects would have been seen on across all the keywords and not just the long tail ones.

I'm just going to wait it out for 2-4 weeks. If nothing improves, I'll start making onsite changes.

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Greenfatman 15 years ago

All that makes me wonder:

Is worth make an authority sites nowdays????

Just imagine the money you will spend on articles,backlinks and time and Google slaps the whole thing out to nowhere.
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uski

15 years ago

I have a great answer. I pay my copywriter hundreds of dollars (she writes for huge magazines like Vogue and Elle.). You need QUALITY content. Nobody want's to read some stupid article that your cheap asian writers wrote in 5 minutes (no disrespect). I have seen HUGE increase in traffic the last 48H while everyone else has been dropped from the serps.. Dp you REALLY think it is strange that huge brands like Amazon are ranking higher than you?.. C'mon think... THINK.... I love it that google focuses more on large companys and great WRITERS. The days of "get rich quick" are over. You need to INVEST in your online business.
I love it.

Thanks
2 replies

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uski

15 years ago

Originally Posted by retsek

yeah ok ....what makes you think I pay for cheap content?

I am going to sound like a douche no mather how I try to answer this...

Do you pay your writer(s) $10 or more per word for content?

I am sorry to break this to you but the days of B S content is over. Professionals are taking over... and I love it.

Flame on

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3 replies

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retsek

15 years ago

Originally Posted by uski

I am going to sound like a douche no mather how I try to answer this...

Do you pay your writer(s) $10 or more per word for content?

I am sorry to break this to you but the days of B S content is over. Professionals are taking over... and I love it.

Flame on

The amount you pay doesn't really mean much. You could be paying $100 and still be getting back crap. Many times I just write myself. I also have a full time writer for 3 of these sites. He works and studied for the industry and is in it for the recognition more than anything else. He was hyped when google rolled out that the Author Profile thing in the SERPs.

For my other content needs, I typically pay between $15 to $30 per 500 words depending on the service I use, the topic, etc. For distribution, I pay as low as $2.

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1 reply

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uski

15 years ago

Originally Posted by retsek

The amount you pay doesn't really mean much. You could be paying $100 and still be getting back crap. Many times I just write myself. I also have a full time writer for 3 of these sites. He works and studied for the industry and is in it for the recognition more than anything else. He was hyped when google rolled out that the Author Profile thing in the SERPs.

For my other content needs, I typically pay between $15 to $30 per 500 words depending on the service I use, the topic, etc. For distribution, I pay as low as $2.

You´re absolutely right.

You seem to have control of your situation. Good for you.

When I started in this IM business I read all these threads on forums online. I found that people payed people from asia to write their content for a low price.
That's nice and all but how do google feel about that?

So I contacted a writer in the REAL world and hired her. She wrote content and I put my Amazon affiliate links on the bottom of my site. Guess what.. I make thousands of dollars every day.. Is that strange? The answer is NO. "paper magazines" are DEAD. There are hundreds desperate PROFESSIONAL writers out there willing to write EXCELLENT content for you.

It takes money to make money.

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outwest

15 years ago

Originally Posted by uski

I am going to sound like a douche no mather how I try to answer this...

Do you pay your writer(s) $10 or more per word for content?

I am sorry to break this to you but the days of B S content is over. Professionals are taking over... and I love it.

Flame on

ya right for a 500 word article you pay 5000 dollars gimme a break thanks for my daily laugh

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uski 15 years ago

Originally Posted by outwest

ya right for a 500 word article you pay 5000 dollars gimme a break thanks for my daily laugh

What do you think my writer gets paid when writing for one of the most read magazines in the world? I don't care if this sounds like bragging.
It is a new day, that's all im saying..

(for the record she's getting thousands and thousands whenever she writes for these magazines.)

FYI i'm a multi-millionaire ... but then again... who cares what I write online? I am just trying to motivate you guys to make more money. Take notes.
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theverysmartguy

15 years ago

Originally Posted by uski

I am going to sound like a douche no mather how I try to answer this...

Do you pay your writer(s) $10 or more per word for content?

I am sorry to break this to you but the days of B S content is over. Professionals are taking over... and I love it.

Flame on

$10/word MAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Some of the highest paid FREELANCE writers only get UP TO about $1/word And that is on the extreme high end of the scale.

Then there are staff writers, and well, they get paid salary.

I am sorry, but you are highly diluted to think that some people get paid $10/word for web content.

-- Jeff

EDIT: BTW the norm for a lot of freelance work is about the 6 - 10cents / word. This is of course in the professional arena. Web content is usually around the 3 - 5cents / word.

-- Jeff

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remodeler

15 years ago

Originally Posted by uski

I have a great answer. I pay my copywriter hundreds of dollars (she writes for huge magazines like Vogue and Elle.). You need QUALITY content. Nobody want's to read some stupid article that your cheap asian writers wrote in 5 minutes (no disrespect). I have seen HUGE increase in traffic the last 48H while everyone else has been dropped from the serps.. Dp you REALLY think it is strange that huge brands like Amazon are ranking higher than you?.. C'mon think... THINK.... I love it that google focuses more on large companys and great WRITERS. The days of "get rich quick" are over. You need to INVEST in your online business.
I love it.

I know you're only trying to help and I can appreciatie that, but if only it was that simple. (I'm totally with you on creating good content BTW) If you have read any of the threads on here, as well as other forums, you would know that it has made NO difference as far as quality content.

Sites with 200 words on the page are ranking at the top in one of my niches. The content is garbage and keyword spammed. Others have mentioned the same thing. Doorway pages with little content are getting ranked.

At the moment this entire update has been indiscriminate in the sites it has taken down. Older sites, huge sites, ecomm sites, affiliate sites, adsense sites, etc. It's like a tornado went through the SERPs and turned everything upside down. But every time this occurs, things eventually settle back down in a few weeks. In most all cases your rankings come back and many come back even stronger than before.

You mention seeing huge traffic increases. Congratulations, you've escaped...temporarily.
Don't be surprised when another update occurs and you don't escape that one. It is simply a way of life when you live on SEO.

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retsek

15 years ago

Originally Posted by remodeler

You mention seeing huge traffic increases. Congratulations, you've escaped...temporarily.
Don't be surprised when another update occurs and you don't escape that one. It is simply a way of life when you live on SEO.

That's a great point.

Since February, I was never affected by Panda and the subsequent updates until now. I also thought, as uski thinks now, that I won't be affected because I invested time and money in producing good quality content.

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remodeler

15 years ago

Originally Posted by retsek

That's a great point.

Since February, I was never affected by Panda and the subsequent updates until now. I also thought, as uski thinks now, that I won't be affected because I invested time and money in producing good quality content.

I think everyone thinks like that until the day it also hits their sites. Spending thousands of dollars on content is no guarantee either. Google could care less how much time and money we all invest into our sites.

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uski

15 years ago

Originally Posted by remodeler

I think everyone thinks like that until the day it also hits their sites. Spending thousands of dollars on content is no guarantee either. Google could care less how much time and money we all invest into our sites.

How can you say this?!?! Who do you think google are working for ?!?! Are you mad because google dropped your site?
People need to wake up. Why do you think amazon and youtube are ranking higher than your "unique authority site"? Think about it for just 3 minutes.

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remodeler

15 years ago

Originally Posted by uski

How can you say this?!?! Who do you think google are working for ?!?! Are you mad because google dropped your site?
People need to wake up. Why do you think amazon and youtube are ranking higher than your "unique authority site"? Think about it for just 3 minutes.

I can say it because I've been through this many many times.

Am I mad because google dropped the rankings on one of my sites? Not really. I know they will come back. Now I'm not real thrilled with losing hundreds of dollars a day, but that is not the point.

If you think amazon content is high quality, then you might want to rethink your whole argument. Youtube? Come on.

I'm sorry, spending hundreds of dollars on a 500 word article is not going to guarantee your site will escape a google update in the future.

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TheFBGuy

15 years ago

Originally Posted by uski

How can you say this?!?! Who do you think google are working for ?!?! Are you mad because google dropped your site?
People need to wake up. Why do you think amazon and youtube are ranking higher than your "unique authority site"? Think about it for just 3 minutes.

Hahaha... breath, lol, and exactly why should Google care? You honestly think Google cares about you or your unique content? Everyone is like little flies to them, Google could care less of anyone and anything other than themselves and their properties.

I too thought my sites were untouchable, lol.

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remodeler

15 years ago

Originally Posted by TheFBGuy

Hahaha... breath, lol, and exactly why should Google care? You honestly think Google cares about you or your unique content? Everyone is like little flies to them, Google could care less of anyone and anything other than themselves and their properties.

Exactly. And the shareholders. Google could give a rats ass about our sites, regardless of what we want to try and think.

But let this guy believe he has it all figured out. The day will come when he finds out differently. And all of his $10 per WORD content will not save him.

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outwest

15 years ago

Originally Posted by uski

How can you say this?!?! Who do you think google are working for ?!?! Are you mad because google dropped your site?
People need to wake up. Why do you think amazon and youtube are ranking higher than your "unique authority site"? Think about it for just 3 minutes.

ummm because Google owns youtube
same reason the paid ads sit above the number 1 positions

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FredJones

15 years ago

Because Google is playing it safe. Because, they have no idea, just like before, the difference between quality content and carp. Because, they still depend upon TF-IDF (at hop 0), LSI (at hop 1) and Latent Dirichlet term vector space mapping with cosine or L1 norm/L2 norm based content similarity (at hop 2) for SEO at on-page level and "non-manipulatable" attributes like "site authority" and "domain age" at on-site level, apart form the standard off-page backlinking stuff. They still don't understand Natural Language Processing (none else do, but lets not pretend that Google does).

So it is of no wonder that a ton of crap from Amazon etc (not Amazon's fault, they had not meant those pages to be content site anyway but Google thought that was content and deserve search rank

) has started beating some solid websites (and I'm not talking of mine) with this update.

Really, with all sympathy to google because writing such complex algorithms on such massive scale and all the API restrictions that Hadoop-like map-reduce platforms bring in is no joke, I must say that at times I get feelings that these are almost too serious pranks to be true showing up straight from the realms of real life.

Originally Posted by uski

Why do you think amazon and youtube are ranking higher than your "unique authority site"?

EDIT: Do you think Google can parse videos? I haven't tried it, but hhas someone tried of late to try and rank a video for the keyword black goriphus (or any such arbitrary imaginary keyword - replace your real keyword if you want to do it) with the content being of blue widgets (replace this by a random thing that is nowhere related to your keyword in any sense) but every tag and everything else talking about black goriphus (the original keyword)?

The moment you start ranking in spite of competition, you shall realize exactly how much of video Google can "understand" today. I doubt whether it understands any - I suspect (with no evidence whatsoever so I may be proven wrong) that it is zero.

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FredJones

15 years ago

Agree whole-heartedly. When I was a beginner, I literally had to scrape all over the world (no, not read up but look at tons of sites and analyze) to realize that fresh content's a myth. But what had made me think that fresh content helps? That was all the bogus material flying around claiming you need fresh content. Luckily, my common sense and computer science background immediately had raised question marks and I could convince myself to go against "the intelligence" and yet start ranking - all with static sites and not "fresh-content" sites.

Heck, I don't write a review on the same model of camera every day, and nor do others. So what would happen if fresh content was the main objective? Every day you search, you get a new set of search results because they were fresh? And authority content sites that would come up with the first set of reviews would be lost in the next few days as it was "not as fresh as the next bunch of sites"? In my case, I have never faced any problem to rank static content ever - static content ranks perfectly well.

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

But I do agree with you on one thing. Not sure where people got this idea that they have to keep sticking more and more content every day on a site. Plenty of businesses have fairly static sites with maybe some news updates each week and they stay right there at the top. Worse because alot of Imers use blogs they have this strange idea that they have to keep adding posts rather than changing the post they have. I'm quite sure that many newbies end up losing rank because the content that was ranking them is rolling right off the page sometimes for inferior optimized content.

Originally Posted by MikeFriedman

I've never understood this belief that you constantly need to add new content to be liked by Google. For most business websites, that simply isn't practical, so it seems foolish that search engines would punish them for not updating their content every few days.

I do not know how this myth got started, but most of my sites and the sites of my clients never get updated. Maybe a couple times a year at the most. And even then, it is usually just changing some images around.

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uski

15 years ago

Originally Posted by remodeler

I know you're only trying to help and I can appreciatie that, but if only it was that simple. (I'm totally with you on creating good content BTW) If you have read any of the threads on here, as well as other forums, you would know that it has made NO difference as far as quality content.

Sites with 200 words on the page are ranking at the top in one of my niches. The content is garbage and keyword spammed. Others have mentioned the same thing. Doorway pages with little content are getting ranked.

At the moment this entire update has been indiscriminate in the sites it has taken down. Older sites, huge sites, ecomm sites, affiliate sites, adsense sites, etc. It's like a tornado went through the SERPs and turned everything upside down. But every time this occurs, things eventually settle back down in a few weeks. In most all cases your rankings come back and many come back even stronger than before.

You mention seeing huge traffic increases. Congratulations, you've escaped...temporarily.
Don't be surprised when another update occurs and you don't escape that one. It is simply a way of life when you live on SEO.

Thanks for this great comment! I totally see what you are saying and i agree. But I have 3 year old sites all of a sudden ranking really high (because of this update) and I see it as google comparing thin sites to "authority" sites. I have a site with NO TEXT at all, ONLY amazon widgets. It suddenly ranks #2 for a medium comp kw. This is just temporary. It is so transparent. Am I the only one who see´s this?

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remodeler 15 years ago

Originally Posted by uski

Am I the only one who see´s this?

I think what you're missing is that you escaped this time. But sooner or later you will wake up to find a new update that hits your high quality sites as well. It's part of this SEO game. I once thought just like you.

I had a site a few years back that was quality built (which is a subjective term at best) and had escaped the infamous Florida update and a few others after that. Then a couple of years ago it got hit in a minor update. It happens. Just read the various forums and you can get a good idea of what I'm saying.
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retsek

15 years ago

Well that's great for her.

The point is here, I'm competing with the likes of eHow, some random Wikipedia writer, Amazon product pages, outdated pages from the 90s and early 00s, and thin MFA sites with 500 words or less of content.

My content is better and more helpful to the reader by a good mile. Why is google giving it to these big brands and thin sites ? The fact that the thin MFA sites are ranking throws a wrench in your whole thing about google favoring big brands with "professional writers".

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uski

15 years ago

Originally Posted by retsek

Well that's great for her.

The point is here, I'm competing with the likes of eHow, some random Wikipedia writer, Amazon product pages, outdated pages from the 90s and early 00s, and thin MFA sites with 500 words or less of content.

My content is better and more helpful to the reader by a good mile. Why is google giving it to these big brands and thin sites ? The fact that the thin MFA sites are ranking throws a wrench in your whole thing about google favoring big brands with "professional writers".

Ok I see what you are saying... I checked my sites... All of them are now ranking below Amazon and random youtube videos.. But guess what, this happens almost 3-4 times a year. It is just google comparing "thin" sites to "thick" sites.

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boxoun 15 years ago

Btw Google doesn't rank YouTube over you. Google ranks YouTube videos related to search query. If you search for how to do something than Google will consider if video should be an option. So that means you should make a YouTube video or any video. Google doesn't rank YouTube they rank content from Y youTube. YouTube is user created content so they are still ranking your content not YouTube persay. Your argument that Google will rank YouTube over "your" content doesn't make sense. YouTube is "our" content.
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rekerlolz

15 years ago

I figure, the best way to beat out the updates or whatever people think is going on with they're website is to keep building high quality backlinks and keep adding some new content to your websites each week.

Getting ranked highly in Google is kind of like a battle, you gotta keep fighting if you want to win.

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TheFBGuy

15 years ago

Originally Posted by rekerlolz

I figure, the best way to beat out the updates or whatever people think is going on with they're website is to keep building high quality backlinks and keep adding some new content to your websites each week.

Getting ranked highly in Google is kind of like a battle, you gotta keep fighting if you want to win.

Lol, you guys keep wasting time. Instead of wasting time beating these stupid "algo updates", I encourage everyone to start looking for new ways and strategies that will work regardless of what Google does. Things such as "adding new content" and building "new high quality links" to please Google are simply not a wise thing to do anymore or how to build a business on a solid foundation, you guys keep running in a loop if you want. Hehehehe..

Edit: Like Albert Einstein said: "The definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing while expecting different results."

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Loloy Diango

15 years ago

Originally Posted by TheFBGuy

Lol, you guys keep wasting time. Instead of wasting time beating these stupid "algo updates", I encourage everyone to start looking for new ways and strategies that will work regardless of what Google does. Things such as "adding new content" and building "new high quality links" to please Google are simply not a wise thing to do anymore or how to build a business on a solid foundation, you guys keep running in a loop if you want. Hehehehe..

Could you please enlighten us a bit about what would those new ways and strategies be that will work regardless of what Google does?

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Mike Anthony

15 years ago

Originally Posted by TheFBGuy

. Things such as "adding new content" and building "new high quality links" to please Google are simply not a wise thing to do anymore or how to build a business on a solid foundation, you guys keep running in a loop if you want. Hehehehe..

You must be joking FB. My sites and my customers are rock solid and have not fallen anywhere based on high quality links. I've taken sites that were struggling to get to the top of Google and stuck high quality backlinks and they shot to number one and are sitting right there still. good content too.

But I do agree with you on one thing. Not sure where people got this idea that they have to keep sticking more and more content every day on a site. Plenty of businesses have fairly static sites with maybe some news updates each week and they stay right there at the top. Worse because alot of Imers use blogs they have this strange idea that they have to keep adding posts rather than changing the post they have. I'm quite sure that many newbies end up losing rank because the content that was ranking them is rolling right off the page sometimes for inferior optimized content.

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MikeFriedman

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

But I do agree with you on one thing. Not sure where people got this idea that they have to keep sticking more and more content every day on a site. Plenty of businesses have fairly static sites with maybe some news updates each week and they stay right there at the top. Worse because alot of Imers use blogs they have this strange idea that they have to keep adding posts rather than changing the post they have. I'm quite sure that many newbies end up losing rank because the content that was ranking them is rolling right off the page sometimes for inferior optimized content.

I've never understood this belief that you constantly need to add new content to be liked by Google. For most business websites, that simply isn't practical, so it seems foolish that search engines would punish them for not updating their content every few days.

I do not know how this myth got started, but most of my sites and the sites of my clients never get updated. Maybe a couple times a year at the most. And even then, it is usually just changing some images around.

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Chiayee

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

My sites and my customers are rock solid and have not fallen anywhere based on high quality links. I've taken sites that were struggling to get to the top of Google and stuck high quality backlinks and they shot to number one and are sitting right there still. good content too.

Mike:

I have a site (with medium competition) with good content. It was in page 1 but struggling to get to the top.

About 1-2 weeks before Panda, I managed to secure high quality one way links (PR5, 6 and 8) to the site. I did not use any artificial or spammy linking method. The ranking didn't move, and when Panda2.5 come it got hit hard.

Competitors with so-so contents and used spammy link building tactics were ranked high. I've seen this happen in some other products keywords in the same niche as as well (though I am not targeting them).

It's all too early to why some got hit while others manage to get by.

CY

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Mike Anthony

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Chiayee

...
About 1-2 weeks before Panda, I managed to secure high quality one way links (PR5, 6 and 8) to the site. I did not use any artificial or spammy linking method. The ranking didn't move, and when Panda2.5 come it got hit hard.

What kind of links were they chiayee? Unfortunately high quality means different things to different people. A lot of people think its just PR but theres also whether its in content ( Google calls editorial) and then there low OBL. I run my links lower than anyone I have seen. OBL is under ten on most sites and under 15 on ALL sites.

You are right that its too early to say which protects those sites but they have not moved. So its either the content or the links which is why I mentioned both. based on my experience its almost always an interplay between the two.

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Fraggler

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

A lot of people are making the connection between links and this update. Hard to tell really because a lot of MFA and affiliate product pages do in fact rely on weak link portfolios.

Yeah, there is a chance that some links have been adjusted. My sites have shifted so slightly, and I have heard others too have had small adjustments, so I thought any changes they made to counting something like article links would result in a much larger drop in rankings.

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Worse because alot of Imers use blogs they have this strange idea that they have to keep adding posts rather than changing the post they have. I'm quite sure that many newbies end up losing rank because the content that was ranking them is rolling right off the page sometimes for inferior optimized content.

If you are running a blog (like myself) and not just an affiliate site then the fresh content is there for the readers' benefit, not for SEO. I think the message got lost with the perception that Google prefers up to date sites, pushing inactive sites out of their index. It is just typical rubbish taught by opportunistic marketers selling to an uneducated audience - through no fault of their own.

A problem is that many people try and rank the homepage of a blog when the focus should be placed on key articles: squeeze pages; articles that can go viral; articles about key phrases with a large amount of search traffic.

The homepage of a blog should be kept as a portal page to push readers looking for more info onto other articles. It shouldn't matter if posts roll off. The homepage will generally have the most internal links point to it so it has stacks of link juice. I like to get as many links as possible on the homepage so they all get a good initial push. I don't build many off-site links to my homepage at all and even with the constant changing front page content the homepage still ranks for my goal keyword.

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Mike Anthony

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Fraggler

If you are running a blog (like myself) and not just an affiliate site then the fresh content is there for the readers' benefit, not for SEO. I think the message got lost with the perception that Google prefers up to date sites, pushing inactive sites out of their index. It is just typical rubbish taught by opportunistic marketers selling to an uneducated audience - through no fault of their own.

Very True troy. Sellers push backlinks and mass content but what I find over and over again is that some people who swear they now know SEO and drop all kinds of advice still don't know the basics. Take what you said about linking to articles. Many newbies are never taught to link to the permalinks of their articles. they simple post it on the home page and then link to the home page.

We'll see how things play out but I think Google may have got exactly what they wanted. Maybe a minor tweak but things just might stay this way - only they really know

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ephame 15 years ago

Interesting discussion, Panda affected some and some it didn't. That basically covers what i just read there.

And some random trolled some people for a while, then quit.

Me thinks Panda will affect some and miss some nearly every time it comes out because everyone is doing things differently with different sites so it should never affect everyone as a whole. Relax, be patient and work out how to get around it like everyone else will.

Until next Panda...
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ttkim

15 years ago

Why don't you make your whois private then?

I don't see this pattern with affiliate sites being hit. I wasn't hit, and my site is an Amazon affiliate site. My newest site went up from rank 35-40ish to 15 overnight. It's also gradually going up as we speak, but I also have a 2500 word review on it rather than the usual 500-word review.

A few of my competitors were hit, but most of them are still there.

Also, number of affiliate links shouldn't matter since I have 3 or 4 per review. If anything, it might be words per # of affiliate links though.

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outwest

15 years ago

Originally Posted by ttkim

Why don't you make your whois private then?

I don't see this pattern with affiliate sites being hit. I wasn't hit, and my site is an Amazon affiliate site. My newest site went up from rank 35-40ish to 15 overnight. It's also gradually going up as we speak, but I also have a 2500 word review on it rather than the usual 500-word review.

A few of my competitors were hit, but most of them are still there.

Also, number of affiliate links shouldn't matter since I have 3 or 4 per review. If anything, it might be words per # of affiliate links though.

That makes more sense
put 150 word review with 5 affiliate links ....ummmmmmm spammy

1000 word review with 1 or 2, that might fly under the radar

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ericnelsonator

Banned 15 years ago

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WealthyBlogger

15 years ago

Originally Posted by ericnelsonator

Sites that are more than 5 years old have not been affected. Sites between the age of 1-4 years are the only ones seem to have lost rankings.

We have two sites over five years old (1 is 9 years, the other 10 years old) that have been both affected.

For relevant search terms on the 10 year old site, the top three on page 1 are still the same. The balance of the page 1 results are kind of twisted and bizarre. One of the beneficiaries is a small online shop with little content, and their product is actually a sub-niche of the niche.

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Steve Faber

15 years ago

Originally Posted by WealthyBlogger

We have two sites over five years old (1 is 9 years, the other 10 years old) that have been both affected.

For relevant search terms on the 10 year old site, the top three on page 1 are still the same. The balance of the page 1 results are kind of twisted and bizarre. One of the beneficiaries is a small online shop with little content, and their product is actually a sub-niche of the niche.

I have a 7 year old site, with 600 pages of high quality content and 11,000+ almost entirely natural backlinks, that got crushed. Too many others have experienced something similar with respect to age and quality content.

The owner of DaniWeb posted on here and his site took a huge hit as well. That site is old, gets tons of traffic (Alexa of <1,500), has a great following, and is definitely well respected in it's niche, yet still ,they took a whack.

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theebookcavern 15 years ago

My site got hit with this update too. I've been running my site for 4 years and this is the first time I've ever experienced anything like this. Looks like a 45% to 50% reduction in traffic.

1 strange thing I noticed is that my rankings on Google.co.uk have remained static and only my rankings on Google.com have fallen. Unfortunately, my traffic is down evenly across all countries which suggest Google.com has a much bigger influence on UK searches than Google.co.uk.

Does not really make sense to me logically as my information is not location specific. It's fitness advice so should be just as applicable whatever part of the world you read it in.

Hopefully, as quite a few people seem to be saying, Google will re-adjust the results over the next few days and the cream will rise to the top. I write all my own content, ensure that it is 100% unique, post regularly to my blog and submit a lot of fresh content to article directories. Looking at it objectively, if someone arrived at my site after searching for my main keywords they would land on a page with relevant content to answer their query.

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- sandra98 15 years ago
  
  I had a few sites affected by the Sept 28th update (termed Panda 2.5). With the Oct 14th update, I have more sites getting affected.
  
  There is little overlap between the sites that got affected in the Sept 28th update and the Oct 14th update. I don't see a lot of feedback from others that their same sites were affected in both updates as well.
  
  The sites affected now are between 5 months to 1.5 years old. Newer sites less than 5 months old took a hit on Sept 28th, and they have not recovered much.
  
  For EMDs, the main keyword rankings are affected just a little. The inner pages took more of a hit. From what I've read, seems like EMDs do get some type of boost, and is perhaps comparatively more important now if these update algos remain.
  
  I have one site with an EMD that got to #1 for the first time ever. Because the traffic potential is so low, I use it as test case and throw different sorts of backlinks at it, the last being a massive profile and social bookmark blast.
  
  It's tough to run a business that relies so much on Google algos.
  
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RedWaterDub

15 years ago

Since the recent update to PANDA, I and many others have seen lost rankings...I think we need to update our pages.

I would really like some opinions on the following observations and add some more that I have left out?

1/ Now need more words for an article..I think 650-1000 words is now optimum. And of course it still needs to be relevant and high quality.

2/ Having one less than optimum page on your site will now hurt your whole site. ie: a post that is thin with quality or a page with an affiliate offer that is in your face without much useful information will hurt your whole site.

3/ Having outward links to spammy or bad neighborhood sites will harm your whole site. But having links (dofollow) to high quality authority sites is GOOD

4/ There has always been debates about duplicate content, but now there seems to be no doubt that it will harm your site. Scraped content, bad spinning etc..equals VERY BAD

5/ Speed of your site now counts for more..(having one slow page could harm your whole site)

6/ Certain niches are now being penalized..ie: **** Berry, male enhancement, get your ex back, and more...(over saturated niches)

7/ Single keyword targeted sites will also now be penalized..that means google sniper sites etc

8/ High bounce rate pages will also affect your rankings more than it used to.....

Is there anything I have left out? Do you agree or disagree with the above?

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MikeFriedman 15 years ago

Originally Posted by RedWaterDub

6/ Certain niches are now definitely penalized..ie: **** Berry, male enhancement, get your ex back, and more...(over saturated niches)

That's silly. Maybe your sites in those niches got hammered, but Google is not going to penalize the entire niche. They have to show something for those searches.

So if someone searches for "**** berry", they are going to show results for what?
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yukon

Banned 15 years ago

1/ Now need more words for an article..I think 650-1000 words is now optimum. And of course it still needs to be relevant and high quality.

Wrong, I'm ranking pages with less than 10 words on the page as plain text, been doing it for years.

2/ Having one less than optimum page on your site will now hurt your whole site. ie: a post that is thin with quality or a page with an affiliate offer that is in your face without much useful information will hurt your whole site.

Wrong, one crappy internal page on your site, has nothing to do with the rest of the sites pages & seo.

You rank pages in the SERPs, not sites.

3/ Having outward links to spammy or bad neighborhood sites will harm your whole site. But having links (dofollow) to high quality authority sites is GOOD

Why would you allow spam on your own sites/pages (doesn't make any sense)?

4/ There has always been debates about duplicate content, but now it DEFINITELY will harm your site. Scraped content, bad spinning etc..equals VERY BAD

Wrong, I've copied & pasted an entire public domain book on a site for testing, each page in the book is a page on my site (150+ pages).

I'm out ranking Google Books & everyone else for that specific book title. I copied the book from Google Books.

My entire test site (.info) is 100% duplicate content, & I'm still #1 in the SERPs. With a triple SERP listing to boot.

5/ Speed of your site now counts for more..(having one slow page could harm your whole site)

If your site is slow, it doesn't matter If your ranking #1 anyways. The traffic won't sit there all day waiting for a page to load, they will bail.

Webmaster 101...

6/ Certain niches are now definitely penalized..ie: **** Berry, male enhancement, get your ex back, and more...(over saturated niches)

I'm not in any of those niche, but I guarantee someone is ranking #1 for each of those keywords, so I have to call BS.

7/ Single keyword targeted sites will also now be penalized..that means google sniper sites etc

Every site has a root keyword (or should). All my sites have more than a hundred pages (more like thousand). I have no doubts anyone can rank a single root keyword with a small 10 page site. It happens everyday...

8/ High bounce rate pages will also affect your rankings more than it used to.....

Wrong, I've got Adsense pages with a nice CTR that still rank in Google SERPs.

.............

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yukon Banned 15 years ago

Originally Posted by high_plains_drifter

god im glad i wasnt the only one thinking 'wtf are you talking about' for most of those points

Lol,

I wasn't trying to be picky, I just didn't read anything I agree with.
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Becker13 Banned 15 years ago

Originally Posted by yukon

.............

Finally..lol

I am not sure where all this duplicate content and 1000 words nonsense came from. I have ranked empty sites with 3 pages in google.
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yukon Banned 15 years ago

Originally Posted by gtk29

I agree only on 1 point - duplicate copied content. Matt Cutts mentioned it himself in one of his videos.

I'm here to tell you I've tested 100% duplicate sites/content & still ranking #1.

Matt Cutts isn't looking out for you.

BTW, I'm not suggesting anyone copy a sites/content you don't have any rights to.

If it's public domain, you can copy it all day long, just do your own public domain research.
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RedWaterDub

15 years ago

I did not just make those point up you know....

I have gathered those points from several articles written by very experienced internet marketers....and they have come up with these theories through testing...

Just because a site using scraped duplicate content, thin pages with few words, a high bounce rate and loads slow is still ranking well...doesn't mean the points I raised are not valid..... just means the better quality sites haven't filtered thru yet I reckon.

Have a read of these articles where I got most of these points from....(the potpiegirl one is all about those saturated niches).

100k Blueprint Blog: How to Beat Googles "Farmer" Update
Warrior Forum post: http://www.warriorforum.com/adsense-...er-update.html
Nichebot post (Jim Morris): Google Algorithm Change Shift ‘N Update 2011 – Were you hit by the Farmer? | The Keyword Ninja | Stealth Training Grounds | SEO Keyword Research
PotPieGirl post (Jennifer Ledbetter): Google Panda Update - My Theory On What's Happening | PotPieGirl.com

Bottom line: Google is constantly changing its algo so that the searches result in better quality, more relevant pages are being found...so sites and pages that are still ranking well that lack that quality will eventually filter down the serps allowing room for the better quality sites to come thru...and all those points I made above amount to better quality so makes sense to me...

To rtailor...no your site will not be penalized for someone stealing your content as long as that original content was indexed on your page first.

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yukon

Banned 15 years ago

The thing is your acting like a web page with very little text is a bad thing & will get you penalized by Google, which is just wrong.

I have sites that only purpose is to distribute zip files, thousands of pages across all sites. Think image gallery type sites (almost no text).

I provide very good quality content inside my zip files & have email list + thousands of forum comments (in my niche) to prove it. Just because I don't have 1,000 words of text on my page doesn't mean I don't deliver quality, because I do, in fact I make it a point to over deliver. My quality zip files keep my traffic coming back day after day, year after year.

Lots of quality content doesn't need massive on-page text:

Download pages (me)
Videos
Image Galleries
etc...

All those thousands of sites still rank keywords every single day, & always will, even with very little text.

That won't change...

Even If I ran only article sites, I would still rank pages just the same regardless of how much text is on the page. I'll be doing the same thing (ranking low text count pages) this time next year...

Originally Posted by RedWaterDub

I did not just make those point up you know....

I have gathered those points from several articles written by very experienced internet marketers....and they have come up with these theories through testing...

Just because a site using scraped duplicate content, thin pages with few words, a high bounce rate and loads slow is still ranking well...doesn't mean the points I raised are not valid..... just means the better quality sites haven't filtered thru yet I reckon.

Have a read of these articles where I got most of these points from....(the potpiegirl one is all about those saturated niches).

100k Blueprint Blog: How to Beat Googles "Farmer" Update
Warrior Forum post: http://www.warriorforum.com/adsense-...er-update.html
Nichebot post (Jim Morris): Google Algorithm Change Shift 'N Update 2011 - Were you hit by the Farmer? | The Keyword Ninja | Stealth Training Grounds | SEO Keyword Research
PotPieGirl post (Jennifer Ledbetter): Google Panda Update - My Theory On What's Happening | PotPieGirl.com

Bottom line: Google is constantly changing its algo so that the searches result in better quality, more relevant pages are being found...so sites and pages that are still ranking well that lack that quality will eventually filter down the serps allowing room for the better quality sites to come thru...and all those points I made above amount to better quality so makes sense to me...

To rtailor...no your site will not be penalized for someone stealing your content as long as that original content was indexed on your page first.

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Mike Anthony

15 years ago

Originally Posted by yukon

The thing is your acting like a web page with very little text is a bad thing & will get you penalized by Google, which is just wrong.

I have sites that only purpose is to distribute zip files, thousands of pages across all sites. Think image gallery type sites (almost no text).

You point here is not only wrong - Its just TOTAL GARBAGE for most sites. So what if you distribute zip files etc. Thats a niche that doesn't require any content. We don't even know if its cracked or Warez stuff. Does that mean that most pages on Google are going to get anywhere with ten word pages?

Seriously stop junking up the forum with nonsense. We are most definitely in the time when good content (that Google can read) matters and ten word pages will not get you anywhere in 99% of the serps.

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yukon

Banned 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

You point here is not only wrong - Its just TOTAL GARBAGE for most sites. So what if you distribute zip files etc. Thats a niche that doesn't require any content. We don't even know if its cracked or Warez stuff. Does that mean that most pages on Google are going to get anywhere with ten word pages?

Seriously stop junking up the forum with nonsense. We are most definitely in the time when good content (that Google can read) matters and ten word pages will not get you anywhere in 99% of the serps.

Trust me I create 100% of my content myself, none of your crazy cracked ideas.

This is your problem & why I'll make money for years to come from content in my zip files, that I made years ago.

Your blind...

You can't see outside of the simple thinking, "Remove Your Blinders"! :rolleyes:

If you can't rank a web page with very little text, you need to hire someone to show you how. Let them know ahead of time that your only focused on what you do now.

I guarantee that I have more repeat traffic than you have, with your backlinking schemes. That's not even counting new traffic.

Don't hate something just because you can't comprehend it.

I have proof for what I say, all you have is a theory based on someone else wearing blinders.

Good luck with that.

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Mike Anthony

15 years ago

Originally Posted by yukon

focused on what you do now.

I guarantee that I have more repeat traffic than you have, with your backlinking schemes. That's not even counting new traffic.

Don't hate something just because you can't comprehend it.

I have proof for what I say,

Where?

P R E S E N T
IT

You go nothing but your claims of faking to be an editor on Wiki and pulling links there. Telling people at this stage in a thread like this that they are fine with 10 word pages is just downright harmful and totally irresponsible.

Every time you are asked to show some proof you run away claiming that you would never show your niche and keywords. You don't ever have to. Just show us in ANY even barely competitive serp where a site with what you claim ranks.

and nice try about me not knowing SEO. Who was it again that PMed ME and I had to explain to him how to do a whois lookup because he was claiming a three year old site was a new site ranking?

When people are losing ranking and real money its time to stop with the kid pretend to be an SEO stuff. No sensible person in this thread believes that answer to their problems is using ten word pages and duplicate content to rank. Add something constructive not just muddy up the waters.

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theverysmartguy

15 years ago

Originally Posted by RedWaterDub

I did not just make those point up you know....

I have gathered those points from several articles written by very experienced internet marketers....and they have come up with these theories through testing...

Just because a site using scraped duplicate content, thin pages with few words, a high bounce rate and loads slow is still ranking well...doesn't mean the points I raised are not valid..... just means the better quality sites haven't filtered thru yet I reckon.

Have a read of these articles where I got most of these points from....(the potpiegirl one is all about those saturated niches).

100k Blueprint Blog: How to Beat Googles "Farmer" Update
Warrior Forum post: http://www.warriorforum.com/adsense-...er-update.html
Nichebot post (Jim Morris): Google Algorithm Change Shift 'N Update 2011 - Were you hit by the Farmer? | The Keyword Ninja | Stealth Training Grounds | SEO Keyword Research
PotPieGirl post (Jennifer Ledbetter): Google Panda Update - My Theory On What's Happening | PotPieGirl.com

Bottom line: Google is constantly changing its algo so that the searches result in better quality, more relevant pages are being found...so sites and pages that are still ranking well that lack that quality will eventually filter down the serps allowing room for the better quality sites to come thru...and all those points I made above amount to better quality so makes sense to me...

To rtailor...no your site will not be penalized for someone stealing your content as long as that original content was indexed on your page first.

All of those people are all well and good, but in the end they are only SPECULATING.

The new update that JUST happened a day or 2 ago can't be properly tested for what is going to penalize people.

I am just going to keep doing what I have been doing all a long. I didn't get penalized for my sites. Some of them actually did go up in rankings. The only thing that bugs me is that my EPC has gone down on a few of my sites.

I am not worried, this has happened before, and it will go back up. Some of my niches have their up times and down times; this is most likely one of their down times according to past earnings.

Its not like the sky is falling or anything...

-- Jeff

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"Doing nothing is worse than doing it wrong."

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RedWaterDub

15 years ago

Yes..okay..I agree with you that quality information is not just words...but from what I have read, it seems to be the general consensus that since the recent panda update late last month...the quantity of information plays a bigger part to its overall quality...so that if you had a page that only had one article (say 500 words) and one picture and that's it..and it was ranking well...but then it fell in the serps..then a good idea might be to make that article longer (say 1000 words) and even (like you say) add some other stuff like a video and another picture or a graph...and it might pop up again.

So what i was really trying to say..is that if your site IS about text...then more of that text is better...

As for other pages affecting your whole site..well I find that hard to believe too but that's what they're saying....

But the whole reason I put this up is too see what everyone thinks because I don't know..I am only going off what I have read ...I need to do something to the pages that I lost serps in and if everyone agrees with those points then I would apply them..if not..well..what was it then?

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Mike Anthony

15 years ago

Originally Posted by RedWaterDub

Yes..okay..I agree with you that quality information is not just words...but from what I have read, it seems to be the general consensus that since the recent panda update late last month...the quantity of information plays a bigger part to its overall quality..?

Redwater Just disregard that total nonsense about copying public domain content and putting it on your site verbatim. Same goes for that garbage about ten word pages doing just fine in google. Anyone answering your points with that does not have one single clue about SEO in the real world 2011.

You would have to be in some scuzzy, crappy 1979 Chevy Impala broken down, I have fallen and can't get up, anemic, My momma washes behind my ears, baby, I forgot to take me Iron, lay down to the count of ten weak Serps to utilize ten word pages as a good strategy to regularly rank pages in Google.

People hide behind the fact that no one wants to share their niche but the flip side of that is that it makes people spin total garbage without having to show any proof.

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yukon

Banned 15 years ago

Nice, shows what were dealing with here, lol.

People like you are the very reason I would never show my sites. They can't think for themselves & feed off others ideas that make money online.

I don't understand that type of thinking so I won't act like I do.

My niche is the hobby niche, which is a billion dollar a year industry, that's all you need to know about my niche.

It's to bad your struggling with the concept of ranking low text pages & making money, plus retaining traffic (key).

Wish my competition was on this forum, to share the laugh.

BTW, you should know by now that I would never fall for your silly proof comments that you always add to every single thread you post in.

I think I've suggested this before, stop looking for others to prove things for you & do your own testing with your own sites. We have enough theories on this forum. :rolleyes:

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Redwater Just disregard that total nonsense about copying public domain content and putting it on your site verbatim. Same goes for that garbage about ten word pages doing just fine in google. Anyone answering your points with that does not have one single clue about SEO in the real world 2011.

You would have to be in some scuzzy, crappy 1979 Chevy Impala broken down, I have fallen and can't get up, anemic, My momma washes behind my ears, baby, I forgot to take me Iron, lay down to the count of ten weak Serps to utilize ten word pages as a good strategy to regularly rank pages in Google.

People hide behind the fact that no one wants to share their niche but the flip side of that is that it makes people spin total garbage without having to show any proof.

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Mike Anthony

15 years ago

Originally Posted by yukon

Nice, shows what were dealing with here, lol.

People like you are the very reason I would never show my sites. They can't think for themselves & feed off others ideas that make money online.

ROFL. Whatever. Again who PMed ME and had to have explained to him how to do a whois check properly ? Yet is now claiming that I am the one that can't think for himself? :rolleyes:. I have no problem making money. I rank real sites for real businesses not push around zip files and fake being a wiki editor to try and place links. I know how to both rank and make money without all that garbage. Its people that don't know how to build a real business that have to resort to all that.

So thanks for your concern but I am doing fine. Not a single one of mine or my customers sites dropped. I'm merely in this thread to combat foolishness at a time when it would hurt people to follow it.

Look I only spoke up to make newbies know that your advice of ten word pages and Wholesale copying of public domain content in order to rank was total and utter crapola. IF they want to follow your whole I rule the internet with crappy, public domain copied or nonexistent content techniques and think it will work for them then they can have fun with it.

Frankly though - I think its more likely you just finally exposed conclusively to anyone with an ounce of 2011 SEO knowledge that you don't have a clue about SEO in the real world though of course we will probably hear again from you otherwise - but of course with the same amount of proof.

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Talen

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Redwater Just disregard that total nonsense about copying public domain content and putting it on your site verbatim. Same goes for that garbage about ten word pages doing just fine in google. Anyone answering your points with that does not have one single clue about SEO in the real world 2011.

You would have to be in some scuzzy, crappy 1979 Chevy Impala broken down, I have fallen and can't get up, anemic, My momma washes behind my ears, baby, I forgot to take me Iron, lay down to the count of ten weak Serps to utilize ten word pages as a good strategy to regularly rank pages in Google.

People hide behind the fact that no one wants to share their niche but the flip side of that is that it makes people spin total garbage without having to show any proof.

Hmm, funny ...my 5 year old photo gallery about a specific destination ranks #2 on google for it's keywords and yet it has no words at all except for alt tags. It's highly relevant and what people want and it has done well through all the google changes.

You are speculating along with all the other "the sky is falling " people about what you think google wants...you have absolutely no clue because google has not shown it's hand in this at all.

Everyday someone starts a new thread saying things like..."gogle only wants 1000 word articles now" " google doesn't want duplicate , scraped or syndicated content" and yet people continue to rank this content non the less.

So where is your proof?

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Mike Anthony

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Talen

Hmm, funny ...my 5 year old photo gallery about a specific destination ranks #2 on google for it's keywords and yet it has no words at all except for alt tags.

Alt tags IS CONTENT :rolleyes:. The whole point of adding them is to alert Google to the content within them. Sheesh guys learn some SEO. Could you put pictures up and not use them? Yes but it would be poor SEO not to use content within the ALT tags. Having a Gallery with less than ten words of alt tags? Crappy SEO no matter who begs for it to be otherwise.

You are speculating along with all the other "the sky is falling " people about what you think google wants...you have absolutely no clue because google has not shown it's hand in this at all.

Garbage squared. Like I said for 99% of the sites people deal with here it is not speculation to say that having ten words of content is a downside to their SEO Ditto for your implication that duplicate content in public domain might be a good SEO factor. Requires no speculation just a rudimentary amount of SEO knowledge. If you don't have it then you can go and get it not object to the bare faced obvious.

Everyday someone starts a new thread saying things like..."gogle only wants 1000 word articles now" " google doesn't want duplicate , scraped or syndicated content" and yet people continue to rank this content non the less.

So where is your proof?

Along with SEO you should get some English reading lessons. I made none, ZERO claims that you needed a one thousand word article. I objected to the ten or less, nothing else and my proof is easy. Ton loads of sites that rank number one in competitive serpsthat have more than ten words and almost none that have less than ten. Now your up. or let me guess - You will come up with some dodge like comrade Yuke. And if you do try and take a stab at it don't try pointing to something with uber links (like Google.com) that no Imer here can get. (Even so Google has more than ten words on its .com site)

and you have to be seriously SEO deficient not to know that Duplicate content has been targeted this year. Every site tanked with it? Of course not. No factor at all? In you ever loving pipe dreams.

There is only one reason why someone should push or believe as you do that ten words should be used to rank a site.

BONE LAZINESS

Either that or extreme arthritis - nah scratch that you can get voice recognition - so its back to just bone laziness. Frankly this bone laziness is directly related to this thread because there are some of you that have always gravitated to the laziness do nothing way of making money that is SPECIFICALLY what Google is targeting.

A lot of people in this thread are probably feeling the effects of Google going after the lazy people who only want to throw up a site and the least content possible in adsense and affiliate sites. They did put some value in their sites but Google going after the bone lazies ends up getting them in the cross hairs. Speculation? Nah. Google made it very clear they want more relevant sites and for the average site you can beg all you want ......

Ten words on a page does not cut it.

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Talen

15 years ago

[quote=Mike Anthony;4879719]Alt tags IS CONTENT :rolleyes:. The whole point of adding them is to alert Google to the content within them. Sheesh guys learn some SEO. Could you put pictures up and not use them? Yes but it would be poor SEO not to use content within the ALT tags. Having a Gallery with less than ten words of alt tags? Crappy SEO no matter who begs for it to be otherwise.
[/content]

It is not 500-650 word articles it's a few words at most per page which is exactly what Yukon was talking about and you disagreed with...sheesh, make up your mind already. And for crappy seo it sure draws in the traffic and puts money in my pocket.

Garbage squared. Like I said for 99% of the sites people deal with here it is not speculation to say that having ten words of content is a downside to their SEO Ditto for your implication that duplicate content in public domain might be a good SEO factor. Requires no speculation just a rudimentary amount of SEO knowledge. If you don't have it then you can go and get it not object to the bare faced obvious.

Again mere speculation on your part from beginning to end. I have 1 site that is complete duplicate content and google loves it to death because it gathers massive information people are looking for into one specific place in an easy to search format related to education.

Along with SEO you should get some English reading lessons. I made none, ZERO claims that you needed a one thousand word article. I objected to the ten or less, nothing else and my proof is easy. Ton loads of sites that rank number one in competitive serpsthat have more than ten words and almost none that have less than ten. Now your up. or let me guess - You will come up with some dodge like comrade Yuke. And if you do try and take a stab at it don't try pointing to something with uber links (like Google.com) that no Imer here can get. (Even so Google has more than ten words on its .com site)

Perhaps reading comprehension is needed by you. I said that everyday someone like you touts what they believe google is looking for and what google does not like without any real proof at all....seems you forgot the backlink thread already.

Furthermore I don't need to prove it because it's a fact and it exists...

and you have to be seriously SEO deficient not to know that Duplicate content has been targeted this year. Every site tanked with it? Of course not. No factor at all? In you ever loving pipe dreams.

Really? As stated before my education site which is comprised of only duplicate content has received a page rank of 5 and tons of traffic from google this year and continues to do so. Did I say duplicate content is no factor at all? No, I did not. But duplicate content used in the correct manner works quite well.

There is only one reason why someone should push or believe as you do that ten words should be used to rank a site.

Again you are making things up. I never suggested that ten words should be used to rank any site...I am saying you can ( and I have ) ranked sites very well going against the bull**** theory that content needs to be a minimum of 300 words.

BONE LAZINESS

Pull your head out of the sand and look around for once

Either that or extreme arthritis - nah scratch that you can get voice recognition - so its back to just bone laziness. Frankly this bone laziness is directly related to this thread because there are some of you that have always gravitated to the laziness do nothing way of making money that is SPECIFICALLY what Google is targeting.

Yes, we all can't be SEO guru's like you...

A lot of people in this thread are probably feeling the effects of Google going after the lazy people who only want to throw up a site and the least content possible in adsense and affiliate sites. They did put some value in their sites but Google going after the bone lazies ends up getting them in the cross hairs. Speculation? Nah. Google made it very clear they want more relevant sites and for the average site you can beg all you want ......

a no value site will always do poorly I agree but not all sites are made the same.

Ten words on a page does not cut it.

It sure does...is it the norm , no, but just because you don't agree doesn't make you right nor do you know anymore about what google really wants than anyone else here.

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Lares 15 years ago

Lost about 50% of traffic.

I really doubt this will be permanent since most sites on 1st page are duplicate content, some not even 100 words long. I also noticed 2 spun articles i post to ALN are now outranking my money site on 1st page for that specific keyword.
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Mike Anthony

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Talen

It is not 500-650 word articles it's a few words at most per page which is exactly what Yukon was talking about and you disagreed with...sheesh, make up your mind already. And for crappy seo it sure draws in the traffic and puts money in my pocket.

Talon rest of your post isn't worth responding to so I'll respond to this and move on. I made very clear that what Yukon proposed in regard to light content of ten words or less does not apply to 99% of websites . When you learn some maths then you will realize that leaves 1%.

It total garbage and will forever be to tell people in this thread based on a VERY few exceptions that they are going to rank with ten words or less of content. That I even have to repeat this again is an indication of how awful this forum has become because of garbage posters. Bring back the spmmers at least they don't spew nonsense.

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yukon

Banned 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Talen

Hmm, funny ...my 5 year old photo gallery about a specific destination ranks #2 on google for it's keywords and yet it has no words at all except for alt tags. It's highly relevant and what people want and it has done well through all the google changes.

You are speculating along with all the other "the sky is falling " people about what you think google wants...you have absolutely no clue because google has not shown it's hand in this at all.

Everyday someone starts a new thread saying things like..."gogle only wants 1000 word articles now" " google doesn't want duplicate , scraped or syndicated content" and yet people continue to rank this content non the less.

So where is your proof?

Finally, someone that knows seo is more than silly 1,000 word articles that people don't read.

If you can get them to understand articles mean nothing when ranking a web page, your a better man than I!

It's the backlink schemers that keep the nonsense bouncing around this forum.

They want everyone to believe their way (this weeks backlinks scheme) is the only way to rank a web page. They only do this because they see dollar signs, instead of providing quality content (not only articles) to their traffic.

It's obvious the differance between guys on this forum that own websites & the schemers that don't know how to do their own testing.

Oh well, that just makes yours & mine own sites that much easier to rank in the SERPs, with these jokers spreading false info.

************************************************** *****

Anyone new to this forum, don't fall for the weekly backlink schemes in folks forum sigs.

Do your own testing, you'll save money by not having to fix the weekly schemes/problems.

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Mike Anthony

15 years ago

Originally Posted by yukon

Finally, someone that knows seo is more than silly 1,000 word articles that people don't read.

Strawman to save yourself from embarrassment. NO one insisted anywhere that articles HAD to be 1,000 words. They just didn't buy your utter foolishness that they should bother with trying to rank 10 word pages. Thank God there are people here who know how to do more than pimp zip files and fake being Wiki editors while having to be schooled in multiple Pms how to do something as easy as determining the age of a domain.

Fact is that 95% plus of the people in this thread have written content websites and telling them that they can rank with ten words or less and duplicating verbatim public domain content given that fact is rank foolishness that no amount of spinning can get you out of.

The people who junk up this forum are always those trying to tell people how to do the least to rank rather than what will work for most people.

This aint the WSO section. Take the

"how to rank in 3 minutes"
"BE number one on Google with two minutes work"
and
"How to rank with ten words or less and duplicate content"

over there with the rest of the junk.

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yukon

Banned 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Strawman to save yourself from embarrassment. NO one insisted anywhere that articles HAD to be 1,000 words. They just didn't buy your utter foolishness that they should bother with trying to rank 10 word pages. Thank God there are people here who know how to do more than pimp zip files and fake being Wiki editors while having to be schooled in multiple Pms how to do something as easy as determining the age of a domain.

Fact is that 95% plus of the people in this thread have written content websites and telling them that they can rank with ten words or less and duplicating verbatim public domain content given that fact is rank foolishness that no amount of spinning can get you out of.

The people who junk up this forum are always those trying to tell people how to do the least to rank rather than what will work for most people.

This aint the WSO section. Take the

"how to rank in 3 minutes"
"BE number one on Google with two minutes work"
and
"How to rank with ten words or less and duplicate content"

over there with the rest of the junk.

Closed to prepare for even better things (LOL)

Enough said...

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Mike Anthony 15 years ago

Originally Posted by yukon

Closed to prepare for even better things (LOL)

ah....... school let out early today (secret safe with me man)
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- Michael McCloud Banned 15 years ago
  
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  Mike Anthony 15 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Michael McCloud
  
  - at any rate, I liked your comment about not needing to update a site so often. In fact, I liked that one a lot! That was you, no?
  
  Yep. I don't know many real business sites that have ranked for years that change their content five times per day. I have sites that stayed rock solid over this update at number one no major content change in last week. But to be accurate I said a few times a week. I can reel them off to you if you need the education. Just a few examples -
  
  Software sites rarely post five posts a day, not even three. Some of you go to them several times a week and the sales page they rank with is almost always the same with a few changes here and there.
  
  Local businesses don't have the time to change their pages every day and some not even every week but there they are ranking for their local area and keywords. Go figure.
  
  Several online stores change their home pages very little except to add sales information.
  
  In fact I can't thing of any big, medium, or even small offline business ranking in Google at the top that posts several articles a day. Of course they don't use spammy backlinks like some Imers do.......
  
  So yeah I see sites DAILY that rank with the same page day in and day out without always updating . You just have to put on the glasses and look in serps sometimes.
  
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- Mike Anthony 15 years ago
  
  Looking over things Its becoming clear there is far more chatter about this update among Imers. This looks aimed at the heart of many of the things that internet marketers have been doing online. I haven't seen many real business sites being hit but lots of people running review sites, selling info products around a niche with opt ins, MFAs etc.
  
  As usual some good sites might be caught in the cross hairs but looking like Google is cleaning house for the christmas season.
  
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boxoun 15 years ago

Analysis of first page on average, has over 1000-1200 words of content. Not an opinion but results of large sample size meta analysis conducted by respected researchers. How you use that information is on you.
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JSProjects

15 years ago

I disagree with a number of different points. Though, #6 definitely stands out. Google is definitely not going to penalize an entire niche. it makes zero sense at all.

Thanks
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RedWaterDub

15 years ago

Originally Posted by JSProjects

I disagree with a number of different points. Though, #6 definitely stands out. Google is definitely not going to penalize an entire niche. it makes zero sense at all.

Perhaps I wrote that point wrong, there seems to be a common trend between those over-saturated niches and article directory sites that have many articles in those niches losing big time. see...Google Panda Update - My Theory On What's Happening | PotPieGirl.com

And If you notice sites like hubpages have banned those niches all together.

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Greenfatman 15 years ago

I'm just in a thread someone posted he have content of 500 words which word cost $10 dollars... 500 word = $5000 per article he found this lady making content for big magazines and hired her for all this crazy money and he said he just put amazon link after the content and he makes thousands of dollars per day.

Please don't follow yukon strategy 10 words content, that makes me laugh he probably is a great IM with a lot experience on find easy keywords to rank.
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tomaz 15 years ago

Originally Posted by RedWaterDub

S

1/ Now need more words for an article..I think 650-1000 words is now optimum. And of course it still needs to be relevant and high quality.

I'am not shure!
Website CoolNailsArt - Nail Art - Nail Art Pictures - Nail Art Gallery - Cool Nail Designs and Nail Art have 5# position with keyword nail designs (about 80.000 searches per month). Website haven't any good content.
I have website with good content (500 word articles) which was on top 5 position, but now is droped on 20 to 25 positions.
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mentormatt8

15 years ago

This is all sand in your eyes folks, from Google.

The real deal is what happened to Amazon.com the last week of September, and first two weeks of October.

They got an early Christmas!!!

Check this out: Amazon.com Site Info

Compare the "Reach" and the "Search %" tabs... Search went down, total traffic way up, almost like last year's Xmas season...

I predict many of our sites will get back to "quasi normal", but Amazon will have an awesome Xmas season... starting right now.

Thanks

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ruff

15 years ago

I don't believe it is because of Adsense and other ads.
I don't even have Adsense on my site!
About 2 to 3 links only to an Amazon affiliate offer throughout the whole site - that's it.
But all pages are nowhere to be seen on serps... but still indexed, that's for sure.
I hope this helps the experts crack this down.

From what I read, I can only conclude to myself that this is Google's way to test me and my website. I guess I just injected some positivity on that statement but I sincerely hope all of those affected in here can recover back soon.

Thanks

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jbgal

15 years ago

I just found this thread today and I'm thinking "Whew! At least it's not just me..."
3 days ago I just had my all-time highest daily income and 2 days later my earnings drops by 90%! !@#$%^& GOOGLE, MY FAMILY'S GOTTA EAT!!! (Sorry, I just had to shout that out somewhere and where better than here LOL) I wonder why IMers go crazy over SEO. It's all so volatile and others are right when they say we are completely at Google's mercy. But I'm a firm believer that what doesn't kill you only makes you stronger. So I'm doing to continue what I've always been doing with seo BUT I've also learned my lesson and will start on other projects that don't involve G^^*&%$#$#!!!

Thanks

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Becker13

Banned 15 years ago

Originally Posted by trustumar

Today i have noticed changes in google. It seems google is rewarding aged authority sites. Is there anybody else who observed this change?

same it is happening everywhere, even if the authority site is not really even targeting the search. I personally like it alot as a authority site owner

Thanks
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jbgal 15 years ago

Becker,

I've been following your blog and you and/or Alex are using BB, right? Have your BB sites been affected at all by this most recent update? Because I've been using BMR and all my top authority sites have dropped huhuhu

JB

Originally Posted by Becker13

same it is happening everywhere, even if the authority site is not really even targeting the search. I personally like it alot as a authority site owner
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jbgal

15 years ago

And while we're on the subject of SEO, can you guys help me out with this thread:

http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...-software.html

It's been nagging me for weeks now, I'll even paypal anybody $5 who can give me the right answer LOL

Thanks

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kindsvater

15 years ago

I am looking at a Google search for a toy with 2 Adwords ads at the top of the page: Amazon and eBay,

that page ALSO includes Amazon and eBay Adwords ads along the right-side of the page

(yes, they are allowed to double-their ads)

and of course Amazon and eBay are doing quite well in the SERPS.

That is 6 top listings for Amazon / eBay. Actually 8, as eBay has 3 SERP listings on the first page.

Takeaways:

Buy stock in Amazon and eBay.

Your affiliate business is being destroyed.

But you may want to sell on Amazon and eBay.

If you can no longer compete in SEO against Amazon / eBay by having better content, or more specific page backlinks, or longtail keywords, then it is close to checkmate for a massive chunk of traffic.

How are you going to get a higher search ranking?

Get your own trusted PR9 site with tens of millions of pages and backlinks? That sells products and is not an affiliate site? Good luck.

.

Thanks
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Mike Anthony

15 years ago

Originally Posted by kindsvater

If you can no longer compete in SEO against Amazon / eBay by having better content, or more specific page backlinks, or longtail keywords, then it is close to checkmate for a massive chunk of traffic.

How are you going to get a higher search ranking?

I'm seeing some evidence of what you are talking about but it is not across the board. Some non AMazon, Ebay and other commerce powerhouse are in fact outranking the biggers sites. However not so much affiliate pages or MFAs (Where I am looking anyway).

Still too early to say but it does appear like this either indirectly or directly targets those kinds of sites. The problem is if that holds up Google won;t be adjusting it too soon because a lot of the times the searcher actually does want to get straight to where they can buy especially if you take into account we are in the Christmas retail season.

IF (big if) things hold out that way then might have to reevaluate how keyword research is done and not target the long tail product niches as much.

Thanks
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WealthWithin

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Still too early to say but it does appear like this either indirectly or directly targets those kinds of sites. The problem is if that holds up Google won;t be adjusting it too soon because a lot of the times the searcher actually does want to get straight to where they can buy especially if you take into account we are in the Christmas retail season.

IF (big if) things hold out that way then might have to reevaluate how keyword research is done and not target the long tail product niches as much.

This is what I've noticed too. Focusing on product related keywords with text content could become harder.

Thanks

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Mike Anthony

15 years ago

Originally Posted by peterjamesmorris

To be fair, I think you're right - it might be nice for people who type in those product keywords to see a review and rating before they buy, but I think they've already made the decision to buy (which is why we target those keywords in the first place). However, I guess from Google's point of view, someone would type "product name review" if they wanted more information about the product.

Yeah if those results hold then don't expect Google to look back and do a correction like they did before. They will be quite happy to get rid of product affiliates and MFA sites.

Originally Posted by Fraggler

This is the first blog I made to make money so the linking profile is as rough as guts. Most of the original links have disappeared but it still has a fair chunk of crappy blog comments and profile links. These have been replaced by article directories, syndication, forum discussion, BMR, high pr rentals, and finally natural blog and facebook links.

I'll post an update in a couple of days just to see how much of this actually sticks.

A lot of people are making the connection between links and this update. Hard to tell really because a lot of MFA and affiliate product pages do in fact rely on weak link portfolios. Panda has always been mostly about content but there is good evidence that they have also been going after link schemes as they have both slapped sites and sent notices to those who were slapped. Thing is google will never really come out and say that their algo has been changed in regard to links - defeats the purpose. They are more likely to talk about content because it encourages people to add better content but telling people about links just tips off the link spammers.

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hobokook

15 years ago

Hi,

I'm literally losing sleep over this issue.

I run a fitness blog over at fitmole.com and my goal on that site is to provide nothing but high quality 100% original content. There is ZERO duplicate content on that site and there is no adsense. Everything is written by me and is 100% original. There are a few affiliate links, but that is for only products I truly believe in.

My site is about 4 months old and for the past 2 months I was ranking high on page 1 for terms like "Ryan gosling workout" , "Jason statham workout", and "beyonce workout".

But as of the past 3 weeks, they simply dropped off page 1 and I couldn't even find them in the first 30 pages of Google.

Does anyone have any idea as to why my rankings would just drop off like that. It's killing my traffic levels.

Any help is appreciated. Thanks

Thanks
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Nick Walker 15 years ago

There was a change to Google's algorithms very recently.
To get back to page 1, you either need lots of quality backlinks from edu / gov or other contextual backlinks.
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stelweb

15 years ago

Originally Posted by hobokook

Hi,

I'm literally losing sleep over this issue.

I run a fitness blog over at fitmole.com and my goal on that site is to provide nothing but high quality 100% original content. There is ZERO duplicate content on that site and there is no adsense. Everything is written by me and is 100% original. There are a few affiliate links, but that is for only products I truly believe in.

My site is about 4 months old and for the past 2 months I was ranking high on page 1 for terms like "Ryan gosling workout" , "Jason statham workout", and "beyonce workout".

But as of the past 3 weeks, they simply dropped off page 1 and I couldn't even find them in the first 30 pages of Google.

Does anyone have any idea as to why my rankings would just drop off like that. It's killing my traffic levels.

Any help is appreciated. Thanks

Affiliate sites have gotten hit in the past few weeks. The only way to bring back the rankings i suppose is to remove those affiliate links. I know that is just unacceptable. But i see no other way. Here is one suggestion for you. Concentrate more on getting the readers to subscribe to your newsletter. Remove majority of the affiliate links off the site. Promote the products through the newsletter instead. I know this seems to be a radical move but this is just one of the solutions. I am sure there is some other solution. But if nothing works out, you are better off experimenting with what i have said.

Thanks

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seobuzz

15 years ago

I don't know why one of my website is improving traffic from the day you mentioned (Oct 14), may be because of minor Panda update. My site always benefits whatever there is update from Google.

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roynetwork7

15 years ago

I also noticed a change. 2 of my #1 sites moved to #6 and #8.

major blow.

Thanks
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WealthyBlogger 15 years ago

Another interesting observation... while I am lower in Google since this update, I've risen in Bing.

Go figure. Unfortunately, Bing doesn't seem to bring me much traffic.
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Fraggler

15 years ago

I'd like to see at least the start of the working week's worth of traffic before doing too much analysis but I have so far seen a 30% reduction in traffic with comparing the same day last week on my diet blog (previoulsy between 2500 to 3400UV/day).

A few people are basing their drops on a couple of the quiet dats of the week. Wait until Monday/Tuesday before seeing the real damage.

The traffic drop has come from a lot of keywords losing a few places, not massive changes. Last Saturday (+10GMT) I received traffic for 506 different keywords; this Saturday was 411. A lot of little changes adds up fast!

The interesting thing is that one of my major goal keywords jumped up from #5 to #2 for both the singular and plural version. A few other big keywords returned to #1 after a couple of weeks down a spot.

Some context:

The site does have a lot of limited release PLR on it but for the last few months I have hired dedicated writers so a new article is added 5 days/week.

The site has 'social proof' with regular facebook comments and likes (as well as tweets and +1s) so I would like to believe it passes at least some of the quality tests. Navigation is clear and siloed for lack of a better word.

This is the first blog I made to make money so the linking profile is as rough as guts. Most of the original links have disappeared but it still has a fair chunk of crappy blog comments and profile links. These have been replaced by article directories, syndication, forum discussion, BMR, high pr rentals, and finally natural blog and facebook links.

I'll post an update in a couple of days just to see how much of this actually sticks.

Thanks

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AMSLLC

15 years ago

Two of my big performing sites are down traffic by 60-80%. Going through my analytic stats it seemed to have happened on around the 13-14th of Oct.

One of my sites is a very aged site over 7 years and the other is less than 1 year. They both have a bunch of quality unique content as well.

Well, seems like Google did another algorithm change that we now have to figure out and adapt to.

Can't wait to see all the WSO's that come out on this one.

Thanks

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davidtong

15 years ago

I think folks get too concerned pleasing search engines than their customers after learning SEO tactics hence we fall into this trap of being affected by a 3rd party so drastically.

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Rick B

15 years ago

One thing I can say for sure is that Google is not penalizing sites with Adsense or Amazon links. I have sites that have shot up in Google traffic in the past few days and several of them have the maximum Adsense units on each page and Amazon Ads on a large percentage of the pages.

The sites that have improved all have two things in common. They have a high percentage of backlinks from authority sites and their other backlinks are mostly "natural". They are links from people who liked the content, not from "artificial" links at blogs with dozens of junk links on the same page, not from hundreds of forum profiles and not from links on crappy articles duplicated at hundreds of crappy sites.

So my guess is that Google is further attempting to rank sites based on how well they are liked by people that are trustworthy. That's what is in their best interest in their quest to offer search results to the best possible content.

The reason that brand sites are doing so well is that they have backlinks from many authority sites and from millions of people who liked their content. Your site's content may be better but you don't have their backlinks. I suspect that Google is aware of this problem and will most likely continue trying to account for it in future adjustments to their algorithm.

About a year ago I decided to totally give up on any "artificial" backlinking and concentrated on content that people would naturally want to link to. That seems to be working better than ever. It also allows me to concentrate on content creation. No more time or money invested in pursuing what appears to be becoming worthless backlinks. No more writing content for SERPS. No more keyword stuffing. Just great content that people want to tell their friends about.

The only challenge I see is the promotion of newer sites. Obviously, you have to get some traffic in order to get people to see your content and give you those first backlinks. I've got some ideas for doing that naturally too but in my case I think I'll just keep building my authority sites.

[ 3 ] Thanks
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vij

15 years ago

I dont think solely relying on natural linking will work unless you already have a large real authority site.

Anyways, the G search results seem to be stuck now... Is this the calm before the storm. There are a lot of results that are looking skewed, G might do another sweep.

Thanks
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36burrows

15 years ago

Originally Posted by vij

I dont think solely relying on natural linking will work unless you already have a large real authority site.

Anyways, the G search results seem to be stuck now... Is this the calm before the storm. There are a lot of results that are looking skewed, G might do another sweep.

Yes, the roller coaster has just begun. There will be a correction soon, even Google can't deny that this update didn't go as planned.

Well, at least I hope so...hehe

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Rick B

15 years ago

Originally Posted by vij

I dont think solely relying on natural linking will work unless you already have a large real authority site.

Natural linking won't be fast, but it looks like it may possibly be becoming the only thing that will work. There's no doubt that big authority sites have an edge simply because their large amount of existing traffic makes natural backlinking more likely to occur.

Smaller and newer websites will require advertising. This need not necessarily be paid advertising. Social networking is one way off the top of my head that would get you that initial traffic. Make sure that you have an easy way for visitors to your site to "like" your pages at Facebook. Add Google Plus buttons. Get Tweets at Twitter. These things will bring in that initial traffic that will lead to more natural backlinks that Google will recognize as real people voting for your site.

Write content that other webmasters might want to link to and then contact them suggesting that their visitors might find your content useful.

I'm sure that others could come up with many more ways of driving that initial traffic.

Thanks
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vij

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Rick B

Natural linking won't be fast, but it looks like it may possibly be becoming the only thing that will work. There's no doubt that big authority sites have an edge simply because their large amount of existing traffic makes natural backlinking more likely to occur.

Smaller and newer websites will require advertising. This need not necessarily be paid advertising. Social networking is one way off the top of my head that would get you that initial traffic. Make sure that you have an easy way for visitors to your site to "like" your pages at Facebook. Add Google Plus buttons. Get Tweets at Twitter. These things will bring in that initial traffic that will lead to more natural backlinks that Google will recognize as real people voting for your site.

Write content that other webmasters might want to link to and then contact them suggesting that their visitors might find your content useful.

I'm sure that others could come up with many more ways of driving that initial traffic.

Umm, still doesnt apply to all situations IMO. An ecommerce site? An Amazon affiliate site etc... Could take years even if it gets there.

Thanks
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OmarNegron 15 years ago

Thanks for all the great information on this thread. I knew something was up when I checked some rankings on Oct 14 (early morning) and I had to double check because I didn't believe it. (NOT in the good way though).

Anyway hopefully we can all keep updating on each-others progress.

- Omar
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rakesh1600193

15 years ago

I was affected due to Google Panda But I never left using my basic and some advanced techniques And I am back to my results as quick as previous.

Thanks
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Therlos 15 years ago

Did you guys recognize that google webmaster tools shows MANY more of you backlinks now? It used to show me like 100 for most of my sites, now it shows me like 1,5 k.
So that's probably to give you the possibility to correct your link profile. Maybe they really started to punish you for bad links.

Daniel
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Rick B

15 years ago

Some of the highest traffic pages at my sites are those that have been sitting there unchanged for years. I've sometimes even seen traffic decrease when I've added content to a page.

I just keep doing whatever I feel improves my visitor's experience at the site and while there are momentary ups and downs, the income just keeps going up year after year.

The key is ... does the new content make visiting your site more pleasurable. If so, the traffic will eventually come.

Thanks

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shozib

15 years ago

Well my website is not down to number 10 of google page

What to do guys!

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nicnac03

15 years ago

Yes, My newer site has been affected. It was ranking #3 now it's down to number 9. I'm going to add some content and do more backlinks and see how that goes.

Thanks

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milodigital

15 years ago

I have a new site. First time I have outsourced backlinking. Over 60% of backlinks have vanished. Could they have been de-indexed?
Just when you seem to be getting somewhere.........

Thanks

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FreeMeal

15 years ago

I have three amazon review style sites, they all been wiped out. Not in the top 1000 anymore. It started a few months ago when my hompages all of a sudden stopped ranking for any of my keywords. Then, a couple of nights ago, the inner pages (all product name based) vanished from the first 1000 in SERP's too. Pretty much dead in the water as far as google are concerned ATM.

Thanks

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high_plains_drifter

15 years ago

my sites are doing fine over the last few updates

my sites just consist of good, quality content that reads well (and i mean native english reads well) and makes sense.

Chuck a little bit of link building on the sites, be consistent, and it always works for me.

I even have an autoblog in a niche that has gone from strength to strength after the panda update. I put it down to people visiting my site and getting what they need or came for.

I really cant think of any other reason why i would rank so well

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RayW

15 years ago

This is why you shouldn't rely on Google for most of your online income... luckily, i don't.

Thanks
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Jasonsc

15 years ago

Originally Posted by raxr

This is why you shouldn't rely on Google for most of your online income... luckily, i don't.

Care to elaborate?

Thanks
1 reply

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RayW

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Jasonsc

Care to elaborate?

Having a website(s) isn't the only way to make money online... maybe not even the best way to make money online.

Thanks
1 reply

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sandra98

15 years ago

Originally Posted by raxr

Having a website(s) isn't the only way to make money online... maybe not even the best way to make money online.

Any tips on what to do?

After this traffic fiasco, I've been thinking about doing PPC and developing more referral traffic sources. But it still involves promoting a website.

Thanks.

Thanks
1 reply

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RayW

15 years ago

Originally Posted by sandra98

Any tips on what to do?

After this traffic fiasco, I've been thinking about doing PPC and developing more referral traffic sources. But it still involves promoting a website.

Thanks.

Selling services on the Warriors-For-Hire section, Elance, or Odesk... or my personal favorite, Fiverr

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markowe

15 years ago

I never noticed Webmaster Tools showing all those backlinks now! Pretty sure that's a new development. Man there is some ugly viewing for some of my sites

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Chiayee

15 years ago

I was listed as site sponsor (those sites don't openly sell links, I've got the links via personal connections), with less than 30 outbound links. In fact for one of the PR 7 where I am listed, there's only 5 links.

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Roberto L

15 years ago

I just back from vacation without any SEO works during it so the rank falls but everything seems fine, the PR showing from the third party was not shown last two or three days but now it is back.

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kulonuwun

15 years ago

unique content is still the king. to do this, usually i hire writer or translate other language to english

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wyuguy

15 years ago

what you guys going to the do for the dropped domains, keep adding content and backlinks and hope for recovery , or just abondon them ,or do a 301 to new domain ?

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OmarNegron

15 years ago

Originally Posted by wyuguy

what you guys going to the do for the dropped domains, keep adding content and backlinks and hope for recover , or just abondon them ,or do a 301 to new domain ?

I think the best thing to do is if the website is worth it, add content but most important continue to back link it. You really have to asses your websites and see if they are worth it. If so, go for it.

Thanks
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wyuguy

15 years ago

Originally Posted by OmarNegron

I think the best thing to do is if the website is worth it, add content but most important continue to back link it. You really have to asses your websites and see if they are worth it. If so, go for it.

I just wonder if the panda penalty hold forever, I know a -50 penalty is almost no chance to save.

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mooble 15 years ago

most of my sites (which is a lot) took a big hit. My traffic dropped OVER 50% since then, and sales are terrible. It's amazing how important it is to be in the first few positions. Those took work and if this sticks i will be quitting this gig for good. I can look back at what it took to put them there int he first place and realize how much more it will take to bring them back from that, and know it's just not worth it. Very depressing.
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vij 15 years ago

Originally Posted by wyuguy

I just wonder if the panda penalty hold forever, I know a -50 penalty is almost no chance to save.

Its not a penalty, its an update.
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o2webtech

15 years ago

Yes, Changes are affected on the ranking of websites but it can be earned again by deploying quality SEO.

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davidtong

15 years ago

Just an update... If your site already has some level of followers, the traffic should and will return, but the organic traffic due to SERP drop may take longer.

I scheduled an article to be published this morning (630AM GMT+8) and by noon, my WP stats went back to the usual 1500-2K levels.

Adsense clicks and CPC were actually higher the since Panda 2.5, but my Amazon clicks dropped by half since Panda 2.5 because of the loss of rank/traffic my previously top-ranked reviews received.

Let's just keep monitoring...

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davidtong

15 years ago

This post has been bouncing between #1-3 the past 15-20 MONTHS... Post panda 2.5, dropped to #13, single digit visit as a result...

FYI: My site was down on Oct 10, server transfer.

Other than having FOUR YT videos ranking, I don't really have an issue with the other sites outranking me as they're pretty good anyway, but still hehe.

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Apollo-Articles

15 years ago

Hey,

I've taken a big hit on two of my sites, I think this has prompted me to leave SEO and focus on article syndication/paid advertising.

Sam

EDIT: What I'd love to know is how we're supposed to backlink according to Google? Has anyone seen an increase in traffic/ranking since the change?

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stelweb

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Apollo-Articles

Hey,

I've taken a big hit on two of my sites, I think this has prompted me to leave SEO and focus on article syndication/paid advertising.

Sam

EDIT: What I'd love to know is how we're supposed to backlink according to Google? Has anyone seen an increase in traffic/ranking since the change?

These panda updates have very little to do with links. It has a lot to do with the content and on-page stuff on the web site.

Thanks
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cooler1 15 years ago

Originally Posted by stelweb

These panda updates have very little to do with links. It has a lot to do with the content and on-page stuff on the web site.

Why are sites with poor content ranking high then such as filler sites?

This update is a blow especially with christmas coming up. I only had 2 sales today, and a big decrease in traffic.

Originally Posted by Europe Classifieds

I think you (and all) should wait for this week to see how traffic and ranking goes.

Why, have Google said they are making more big tweaks later in the week?
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Chiayee 15 years ago

Originally Posted by stelweb

These panda updates have very little to do with links. It has a lot to do with the content and on-page stuff on the web site.

Do you have any sound proof/data to support this claim??
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- stelweb 15 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Chiayee
  
  Do you have any sound proof/data to support this claim??
  
  I believe that only from the research i have done. Sites with both natural links and crap links have been hit. A lot of sites have lost traffic because of changes in the long tail search results. But that does not mean the KWs have undergone no changes.
  
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Apollo-Articles

15 years ago

Originally Posted by stelweb

These panda updates have very little to do with links. It has a lot to do with the content and on-page stuff on the web site.

My website is well optimised for on-page seo, with 100% unique content I've written myself. Both sites have around 40 pages.

I think it's clear this latest algo change is built to boost authority sites which is why we've all seen drops.

Whether it's to do with private blog networks I don't know.

Sam

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stelweb

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Apollo-Articles

My website is well optimised for on-page seo, with 100% unique content I've written myself. Both sites have around 40 pages.

I think it's clear this latest algo change is built to boost authority sites which is why we've all seen drops.

Whether it's to do with private blog networks I don't know.

Sam

It is true that the sites with higher trust are getting a flood of long tail traffic as a result of panda 2.6.

Thanks

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ruff

15 years ago

My site went back up in rankings today after being nonexistent after last week's update. Did you guys see the same on your sites?

I just did what I did before, nothing special. Maybe it's just a Google test if the same thing happened to your sites.

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jackwebson 15 years ago

Good for you ruff. The Google Algorithm update has a lot of surprises which can be beneficial or disappointing as well. We are still uncertain of the next generation of SEO methods.
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cooler1

15 years ago

Originally Posted by ruff

My site went back up in rankings today after being nonexistent after last week's update. Did you guys see the same on your sites?

I just did what I did before, nothing special. Maybe it's just a Google test if the same thing happened to your sites.

Mine haven't. They're in the same positions as after last weeks update. Could it be that Google haven't updated all sites yet? Or maybe that's just wishful thinking.

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ruff

15 years ago

Okay, so it's not the same for everyone. I just thought that I'm bringing in good news since we all got kicked out by Google at the same time and I just happened to check mine first. In any case, keep at it. I'll keep monitoring mine.

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RayW

15 years ago

Is there anyone whose sites actually moved UP in rankings?

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mikekiske

15 years ago

My site with 180, well-written, nearly 99% unique articles also got hit very hard. My daily visitor took a nose dive from around 1500 UV/day to just 300 UV/day.

On the other hand an Amazon affiliate site with only one article (keyword on domain with 1300 monthly global search term) moved up to #1 spot, beating Amazon and Cnet.

What's wrong with the Big G?

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TheFBGuy

15 years ago

Not going to write an essay, so here is a quick summary.

After my weekend analysis, this update was MOSTLY a "roll back" to previous updates. From what I have gathered, for the moment these current search results are here to stay until there is another big shake up, meaning those who lost their rankings such as myself, unfortunately it's going to stay that way... unless of course you try and rank higher again.

What does this roll back in a nutshell mean? It means many things, but the most obvious one to take away is that EMDs are once again have become more relevant, so relevancy was a big thing in this Panda update. This update also places a bit more emphasis on authority. Relevance is the only reason why I personally only work with EMDs.

There was really no specific target, on page or off page. Sites across the board were affected, some moved up and some tanked. This update had no regard of what kind of site you had, Adsense included.

I know some terrible things have happened in the last few days, I mean this update has financially crippled a lot of people, almost killed my Adsense business. If it wasn't for my Facebook operations, I would be crippled as well.

However it's not the end of the world. Regardless of what update Google does, you can still easily rank, as long as it's core principle remains at the center, which is this simple formula. Good "relevant" content + Good backlinks or "votes" = higher rankings for that/those specific relevant term(s). Throw in some new ideas of your own too in regards to your ranking.

This is why you build many niche specific sites of different variety, 3 - 20 pages max and move on, heck even 1 page as long as it well optimized and relevant. Do not waste time building these big sites with "tons of pages/content" if you want to win this "Google game."

Here is an interesting video for those interested:

How Google Improves Search

Now dust yourselves and get back in the game, and play to win. Make a few tweaks to your sites, and build links, don't waste time adding new content.

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Blue Collar Marketer 15 years ago

I find it hard to believe that this update is a rollback.

I lost around 75% of my income on the 14th, yet I have never been affected by any updates thus far.

As a result it is hard for me to see where this rollback is rolling back too. I must not be in that "MOSTLY" majority you speak of.

I think the best thing for everyone to do is seriously look at diversifying income if you haven't already.

It's easy to just build more sites of course but I feel like I'm constantly looking over my shoulder now.
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OmarNegron

15 years ago

Originally Posted by TheFBGuy

Not going to write an essay, so here is a quick summary.

After my weekend analysis, this update was MOSTLY a "roll back" to previous updates. From what I have gathered, for the moment these current search results are here to stay until there is another big shake up, meaning those who lost their rankings such as myself, unfortunately it's going to stay that way... unless of course you try and rank higher again.

What does this roll back in a nutshell mean? It means many things, but the most obvious one to take away is that EMDs are once again have become more relevant, so relevancy was a big thing in this Panda update. This update also places a bit more emphasis on authority. Relevance is the only reason why I personally only work with EMDs.

There was really no specific target, on page or off page. Sites across the board were affected, some moved up and some tanked. This update had no regard of what kind of site you had, Adsense included.

I know some terrible things have happened in the last few days, I mean this update has financially crippled a lot of people, almost killed my Adsense business. If it wasn't for my Facebook operations, I would be crippled as well.

However it's not the end of the world. Regardless of what update Google does, you can still easily rank, as long as it's core principle remains at the center, which is this simple formula. Good "relevant" content + Good backlinks or "votes" = higher rankings for that/those specific relevant term(s). Throw in some new ideas of your own too in regards to your ranking.

This is why you build many niche specific sites of different variety, 3 - 20 pages max and move on, heck even 1 page as long as it well optimized and relevant. Do not waste time building these big sites with "tons of pages/content" if you want to win this "Google game."

Here is an interesting video for those interested:

How Google Improves Search

Now dust yourselves and get back in the game, and play to win. Make a few tweaks to your sites, and build links, don't waste time adding new content.

Interesting stuff. I must say I think you hit the nail on the head with this one.

- Omar

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Mike Anthony

15 years ago

I dunno but I have the sneaking suspicion that what many are calling great content really doesn't match what Google calls great content.

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TotalGaz

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

I dunno but I have the sneaking suspicion that what many are calling great content really doesn't match what Google calls great content.

What's gets me with this update is I have personally written 160 articles ranging 500-1000 words of my personal health knowledge as a practising healthcare professional which is why I was ranking #1-3 for keywords.

Now a EMD domain with only two articles which is 2 years newer than mine dropped me from #1 to #7

For me I don't think people have gotten better info (content) with this update for my situation.

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Mike Anthony

15 years ago

Originally Posted by TotalGaz

What's gets me with this update is I have personally written 160 articles ranging 500-1000 words of my personal health knowledge as a practising healthcare professional which is why I was ranking #1-3 for keywords.
.

Gaz I've sent you a PM. Time to get my hands dirty and lets see if we can get some people back on track rather than just tossing ideas around.

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Rick B

15 years ago

Originally Posted by TheFBGuy

This is why you build many niche specific sites of different variety, 3 - 20 pages max and move on, heck even 1 page as long as it well optimized and relevant. Do not waste time building these big sites with "tons of pages/content" if you want to win this "Google game."

This is yet one more opinion that may be true for one person and not for another. I think that many of you are missing the point of what Google is doing.

My situation is exactly the opposite. My small niche specific sites all disappeared into the dumper and my large multi-hundred and multi-thousand page sites are doing much better than they were before.

Other than their size, the only difference between those sites are that the backlinks to the large ones accrued naturally over several years while most of the ones to the smaller sites were artificially placed over shorter periods of time.

My point is that I firmly believe that this latest shakeup was mostly Google further downgrading the value of backlinks that they believe are artificial. They are getting much better at telling the difference between a link that someone gave you because they liked your site and one that you got because you or someone you hired placed it there.

That's the way I see it anyway so for the time being I'm growing my larger sites that are doing well and building the others with quality content that real people will link to. In other words, I'm going to give Google exactly what they want and bet that I continue to be rewarded for it.

At the same time, I've been working for the last few years at finding sources of traffic other than the search engines.

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RayW

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Rick B

My point is that I firmly believe that this latest shakeup was mostly Google further downgrading the value of backlinks that they believe are artificial. They are getting much better at telling the difference between a link that someone gave you because they liked your site and one that you got because you or someone you hired placed it there.

I completely agree. This is very much in line with the other Panda updates that were focused on downgrading low-quality content. Discrediting links that seem artificial is another way of downgrading low-quality content.

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athenistic 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Rick B

My point is that I firmly believe that this latest shakeup was mostly Google further downgrading the value of backlinks that they believe are artificial.

I'm not completely convinced yet, but this idea seems to hit home with me. Also thinking that having some balance in link text might be another part.
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Mike Anthony

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Rick B

My point is that I firmly believe that this latest shakeup was mostly Google further downgrading the value of backlinks that they believe are artificial. They are getting much better at telling the difference between a link that someone gave you because they liked your site and one that you got because you or someone you hired placed it there.

Thats a very key similarity that exists between affiliate , review and MFAs that needs to be explored. Most of those site owners do use very similar kinds of links.

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ttomp13

15 years ago

One of my buddies took a really large hit on his quality site which has 1,000+ LIKES on Facebook.

Meanwhile, one of my trash sites went from zero to hero.

Google seems to do this every few months. If the past represents the future,
things will go back to normal in the next few days / weeks.

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Rick B

15 years ago

Originally Posted by ttomp13

One of my buddies took a really large hit on his quality site which has 1,000+ LIKES on Facebook.

Meanwhile, one of my trash sites went from zero to hero.

Anything can be proven by handpicking two sites. That doesn't prove anything.

First of all, Facebook likes are nofollow backlinks and have little or no effect on search position at Google. So if your buddie's site has 1000 Facebook likes and a bunch of artificial backlinks, it would still follow that his site's traffic fell due to Google devaluing junk backlinks.

Secondly, your site may have very few backlinks but their quality in Google's opinion is better than average so it's traffic increased due to all of the other sites being devalued. Plus, while you should be congratulated for tripling your traffic, the numbers are low and an 80 visitor per day increase isn't enough to prove anything. One new link from a decent site could bring in more than that.

I have no way of knowing whether those things are true or if there's some other explanation but I worry that isolated examples like this might convince others that Google is not doing what's in their best interest ... namely improving their SERPs by devaluing artificial backlinks.

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rimam1

15 years ago

I haven't read anything about this shakeup on SearchEngineJournal, SearchEngineLand, SEOBook, SEOMoz, or Sphinn.

I would have thought someone would say something by now.

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DireStraits

15 years ago

Originally Posted by rimam1

I haven't read anything about this shakeup on SearchEngineJournal, SearchEngineLand, SEOBook, SEOMoz, or Sphinn.

I would have thought someone would say something by now.

I don't think there's much to be said that hasn't been said many times before, on this subject, to be honest.

There are only so many ways you can say "S**t!", "Ahhhhh!", "Oh noes!", "Now what?!", "Google does evils!11", "WTF", and so on.

And there's really only one lesson to be learned from these ongoing changes: there's no way to truly safeguard your sites from Google's flak; being too reliant on the Big G for your traffic is plenty risky, so avoid reliance as much as possible and don't take anything for granted.

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theebookcavern

15 years ago

Originally Posted by DireStraits

I don't think there's much to be said that hasn't been said many times before, on this subject, to be honest.

There are only so many ways you can say "S**t!", "Ahhhhh!", "Oh noes!", "Now what?!", "Google does evils!11", "WTF", and so on.

And there's really only one lesson to be learned from these ongoing changes: there's no way to truly safeguard your sites from Google's flak; being too reliant on the Big G for your traffic is plenty risky, so avoid reliance as much as possible and don't take anything for granted.

Totally agree with you Michael.

This is the first time I've been hit negatively by a Google update (looking like a 40% reduction in traffic for me). At first I was really disappointed and felt that Google had done a number on me. However, now that I've had a bit of time to reflect I can see that I've been the master of my own downfall.

When I started my website I was very new to blogging and actively engaged with the blogging community. I did guests posts, I read and commented on other blogs daily and I was rewarded for it with people reading and commenting back on my posts. Although I was relatively small, I had a really good community feeling going and it was really satisfying to get feedback on my posts.

As my traffic numbers grew, I started to get selfish. I stopped reading and commenting on other blogs and focussed purely on my own content. I was still getting a few comments but as my traffic grew, the number of comments fell. My writing style also started to change. Instead of writing things that would engage my readers, I was writing things to please myself and rank well in Google.

The worst part was that whilst this was happening, engaging with my readers had become even easier. Facebook and Facebook fan pages had taken off in a big way and Twitter had become extremely popular. However, I was ignoring these free tools which would allow me to engage with my readers on an even deeper level and instead I was just blindly writing content the way I wanted to write it.

Now that I have the benefit of hindsight I can see that if I had focussed on engaging my readers and building a loyal readership then the impact of a drop in Google rankings would have been much less severe. I would have still lost some new visitors but I would have had a lot of extra regular readers eager to view my next post, share it with their friends and give me some feedback.

A perfect example of this is AskMen. I'm sure they get a lot of traffic from Google but they also do a great job of engaging their readers. They have an extremely popular newsletter, they have the Great Male Survey, they have polls, they have jokes and they just keep you coming back for more. Even if Google completely de-indexed AskMen I would still visit the website regularly. Although they have a lot more resources than me, AskMen is the style of website I ultimately aspire to have.

So what have I done to start moving in the right direction? For starters, I've scheduled time each day to read and comment on blogs. I've also set up a Facebook Fan Page and Twitter account so that I can engage with my readers and share the stuff in my niche that I find useful and interesting. I will still write for my main website as I do now but with these extra tools I can let my readers know if I have had a good/bad workout, quickly point them in the direction of useful videos or articles and have much more open communication with them.

Ultimately, Google doesn't owe us anything. Organic search traffic is a free gift they have given us and it's our responsibility to ensure that we turn every visitor possible into a regular reader.

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fancydressqueen

15 years ago

Originally Posted by theebookcavern

Totally agree with you Michael.

This is the first time I've been hit negatively by a Google update (looking like a 40% reduction in traffic for me). At first I was really disappointed and felt that Google had done a number on me. However, now that I've had a bit of time to reflect I can see that I've been the master of my own downfall.

When I started my website I was very new to blogging and actively engaged with the blogging community. I did guests posts, I read and commented on other blogs daily and I was rewarded for it with people reading and commenting back on my posts. Although I was relatively small, I had a really good community feeling going and it was really satisfying to get feedback on my posts.

As my traffic numbers grew, I started to get selfish. I stopped reading and commenting on other blogs and focussed purely on my own content. I was still getting a few comments but as my traffic grew, the number of comments fell. My writing style also started to change. Instead of writing things that would engage my readers, I was writing things to please myself and rank well in Google.

The worst part was that whilst this was happening, engaging with my readers had become even easier. Facebook and Facebook fan pages had taken off in a big way and Twitter had become extremely popular. However, I was ignoring these free tools which would allow me to engage with my readers on an even deeper level and instead I was just blindly writing content the way I wanted to write it.

Now that I have the benefit of hindsight I can see that if I had focussed on engaging my readers and building a loyal readership then the impact of a drop in Google rankings would have been much less severe. I would have still lost some new visitors but I would have had a lot of extra regular readers eager to view my next post, share it with their friends and give me some feedback.

A perfect example of this is AskMen. I'm sure they get a lot of traffic from Google but they also do a great job of engaging their readers. They have an extremely popular newsletter, they have the Great Male Survey, they have polls, they have jokes and they just keep you coming back for more. Even if Google completely de-indexed AskMen I would still visit the website regularly. Although they have a lot more resources than me, AskMen is the style of website I ultimately aspire to have.

So what have I done to start moving in the right direction? For starters, I've scheduled time each day to read and comment on blogs. I've also set up a Facebook Fan Page and Twitter account so that I can engage with my readers and share the stuff in my niche that I find useful and interesting. I will still write for my main website as I do now but with these extra tools I can let my readers know if I have had a good/bad workout, quickly point them in the direction of useful videos or articles and have much more open communication with them.

Ultimately, Google doesn't owe us anything. Organic search traffic is a free gift they have given us and it's our responsibility to ensure that we turn every visitor possible into a regular reader.

Fantastic post, at least someone is taking something from this latest update. Im doing my best to be inspired by your reaction but it's still tough after a major traffic hit.

I run an online costume shop and with Halloween fast approaching I stocked up only to be hammered with my natural listing positions nose diving and now being left with a stack of seasonal stock that will likely be left with me for a year. A harsh learning experience im sure, but just goes to show that I shouldn't depend on Google for my traffic.

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theebookcavern

15 years ago

Originally Posted by fancydressqueen

Fantastic post, at least someone is taking something from this latest update. Im doing my best to be inspired by your reaction but it's still tough after a major traffic hit.

I run an online costume shop and with Halloween fast approaching I stocked up only to be hammered with my natural listing positions nose diving and now being left with a stack of seasonal stock that will likely be left with me for a year. A harsh learning experience im sure, but just goes to show that I shouldn't depend on Google for my traffic.

Hey Fancydressqueen,

Sorry to hear that it's hit you so hard. I know it's not ideal and will cost you a bit more than organic traffic but are Google Adwords or eBay options for selling your Halloween stock online? I remember when I was a student and also when we've had fancy dress parties at work eBay is the first place myself, my friends and my colleagues have looked for a costume. Alternatively, you could try the offline route and see if there's any demand at your local market perhaps?

Thanks,

Tom

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fancydressqueen

15 years ago

Originally Posted by theebookcavern

Hey Fancydressqueen,

Sorry to hear that it's hit you so hard. I know it's not ideal and will cost you a bit more than organic traffic but are Google Adwords or eBay options for selling your Halloween stock online? I remember when I was a student and also when we've had fancy dress parties at work eBay is the first place myself, my friends and my colleagues have looked for a costume. Alternatively, you could try the offline route and see if there's any demand at your local market perhaps?

Thanks,

Tom

Hi Tom,

Been on eBay for years and well....don't get me started! Local market is a great idea and is one that has already been considered. If city centre shop rents and business rates weren't crazy expensive that might have been an option, but sadly we operate on the net for a reason.

Still, I now have plenty of time to work on my main site and improve content (though it is pretty much all static due to the product pages not needing to change for any reason) and figure out what to do as an alternative method for sourcing traffic.

Things were all going so well after a long period of website work and developing links....then a kick in the balls and another experience to add to the growing list. Lets hope we can fix the issues and rank up again soon enough (positive thinking = wishful thinking).

P.S - Google haven't completely kicked me to the curb, I must add. For anyone selling products that they have in stock I highly recommend getting them uploaded to Google shopping. I might have lost major ranking positions but my Google shopping results have held firm (though the recent changes with the submission details was a pain) thankfully.

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theebookcavern

15 years ago

Originally Posted by fancydressqueen

Hi Tom,

Been on eBay for years and well....don't get me started! Local market is a great idea and is one that has already been considered. If city centre shop rents and business rates weren't crazy expensive that might have been an option, but sadly we operate on the net for a reason.

Still, I now have plenty of time to work on my main site and improve content (though it is pretty much all static due to the product pages not needing to change for any reason) and figure out what to do as an alternative method for sourcing traffic.

Things were all going so well after a long period of website work and developing links....then a kick in the balls and another experience to add to the growing list. Lets hope we can fix the issues and rank up again soon enough (positive thinking = wishful thinking).

Sorry to hear you've not had good experiences with eBay. From a customer point of view they've always been 1 of my favourite places to shop for fancy dress. However, I have used them to sell as well and know from experience they don't make it easy.

I know it's frustrating but there's still a lot of options there to generate traffic in the run up to Halloween. Google Adwords, Facebook ads, email newsletter ads, promotions with other websites (e.g. offer them a discount code on your Halloween range if they plug your website) all have potential to generate sales.

Tom

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fancydressqueen

15 years ago

Originally Posted by theebookcavern

Sorry to hear you've not had good experiences with eBay. From a customer point of view they've always been 1 of my favourite places to shop for fancy dress. However, I have used them to sell as well and know from experience they don't make it easy.

I know it's frustrating but there's still a lot of options there to generate traffic in the run up to Halloween. Google Adwords, Facebook ads, email newsletter ads, promotions with other websites (e.g. offer them a discount code on your Halloween range if they plug your website) all have potential to generate sales.

Tom

Hi Tom,

I still use eBay as part of my selling strategy but with so many sellers selling in volume and not paying VAT when they clearly surpass the criteria for paying its hard to compete with pricing. Still, it does help to keep things ticking over in times like these.

Your other suggestions are also note worthy. I have stuck to the free options in most cases (article writing, guest content posting, organic search traffic) as it has yielded great results for me in the past. Obviously with this hit it's time to reassess and check out other options.

Nice chatting with you, must now get some sleep and wake to fight another day. Please do keep us updated on your progress and I hope all returns back to normal for you sooner rather than later.

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teatree

15 years ago

Originally Posted by fancydressqueen

I run an online costume shop and with Halloween fast approaching I stocked up only to be hammered with my natural listing positions nose diving and now being left with a stack of seasonal stock that will likely be left with me for a year. A harsh learning experience im sure, but just goes to show that I shouldn't depend on Google for my traffic.

There's a way out of your particular predicament, but you will need to move fast (and this applies to everyone who actually stocks physical products.

The solution is Amazon's sellers program. Register and list all your stock on there. Yes you will have to pay them a commission for each sale, but at least you will shift your stock and release the capital. (Maybe you could adjust the pricing to cover the commission).

Then promote the hell out of your amazon listings.

P.S. Here's a great post by someone who actually sells physical products on amazon, which might help you:

How to Sell Your Own Products on Amazon – A Success Story

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ttomp13 15 years ago

UPDATE:

Matt Cuts has said that with the 2.5 update that we would see fluctuations for the next few weeks.

Source: A few sites have taken a hit on Google.

So things aren't even close to being solidified. I noticed that a few of my keywords which fell off to
page #2 or #3 are back on page #1 again. Not back in their #1 spot like they should be but we
are seeing movement.
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- Mike Anthony 15 years ago
  
  UPDATE Panda 2.5 came out in September.
  
  2.5 DID NOT COME OUT LAST OCTOBER 14th. THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT 2.5
  
  Can we have a better source Ttom. Same might apply to this update but just to be clear any information about 2.5 is already three weeks old.
  
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  ttomp13 15 years ago
  
  DELETE.
  
  I ranted... Some people here should have been swallowed at birth. I'm just going to move on.
  
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fancydressqueen

15 years ago

Originally Posted by peterjamesmorris

What a fantastic post, theebookcavern. I think you're right, being a leader in your market in that way is the key.

By the way, I'm seeing a shift in traffic again (in the right direction). My keywords that went down haven't yet recovered, but my long tail traffic has gradually returned over the last few days. I'm actually close to pre-update traffic levels again. Has anyone else seen this?

Nope, rankings are down by around 50+ places across the board. Did you do anything over the last few days to effect the change or did you just let mother G nature take her course?

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Mike Anthony

15 years ago

Originally Posted by theebookcavern

Ultimately, Google doesn't owe us anything. Organic search traffic is a free gift they have given us and it's our responsibility to ensure that we turn every visitor possible into a regular reader.

Best post of the thread by far. Major props bookcavern

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ttomp13

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Best post of the thread by far. Major props bookcavern

On the contrary; If we didn't use Google, Google wouldn't make money. My
websites have provided Google Co. with revenue. If you're using AdSense and
you have made money, your site has also provided Google Co. with revenue.

Google's top people make big Bone. If they feel like tossing me some of this
Bone, then that is their right. Without the little guys like you and I, along
with that people that use Google, Google is nothing.

So, you're right; Technically speaking, Google doesn't owe us anything. Just
like a singer doesn't have to thank you for coming out to their concert.

But morally, what's the right thing to do?

You're creating quality content*, I am creating quality content, and my friend with
1,300+ Facebook Likes on his site profile is obviously creating quality content,
but we're all getting hammered by Google.

It's like paying $50.00 to see your favorite singer live, and at the end of the
concert, they say, "Hey! **** you for coming!" Sure, the singer can say **** you,
but seeing that you just paid $50.00 to see them live, is it really the just thing to do?

*For those not creating quality content, you know who you are, and you know
why you were slapped.

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Mike Anthony

15 years ago

Originally Posted by ttomp13

On the contrary; If we didn't use Google, Google wouldn't make money. My
websites have provided Google Co. with revenue. If you're using AdSense and
you have made money, your site has also provided Google Co. with revenue.

the economic reality is that Google is not going to go under because a few sites don't rank. Ranking does nothing more than take their traffic (Google searchers) and aims it at your site. They'd rather the searchers click the adwords showing on their result page.

I can understand your perspective but you need to understand theirs. If you are deriving traffic from them to get those adsense links clicked then they may not see you as such a valued partner as you think. I think they have done more than enough to indicate that their bottom line is not dependent enough on adsense users not to tick off a large group of them

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ttomp13

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

the economic reality is that Google is not going to go under because a few sites don't rank. Ranking does nothing more than take their traffic (Google searchers) and aims it at your site. They'd rather the searchers click the adwords showing on their result page.

I can understand your perspective but you need to understand theirs. If you are deriving traffic from them to get those adsense links clicked then they may not see you as such a valued partner as you think. I think they have done more than enough to indicate that their bottom line is not dependent enough on adsense users not to tick off a large group of them

You think I don't get this? I do . But does it make it right? That's the point I
was trying to make.

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theebookcavern

15 years ago

Originally Posted by ttomp13

You think I don't get this? I do . But does it make it right? That's the point I
was trying to make.

Hi ttomp13 - I wasn't trying to say what google has done was right but I don't think it's that simple.On the 1 hand they may have crippled a small business but on the other hand they could have given the rank to someone more deserving.Looking at my main keyword that has dropped I would say all but 1 of the sites are at least as good as mine.Personally I would prefer my site to be top of the pile but if I'm operating in a monopoly situation like google has I have to accept that my level of organic traffic is not fully in my control and instead focus on things that are in my control such as fully engaging every visitor to my site.

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ttomp13

15 years ago

Originally Posted by theebookcavern

Hi ttomp13 - I wasn't trying to say what google has done was right but I don't think it's that simple.On the 1 hand they may have crippled a small business but on the other hand they could have given the rank to someone more deserving.Looking at my main keyword that has dropped I would say all but 1 of the sites are at least as good as mine.Personally I would prefer my site to be top of the pile but if I'm operating in a monopoly situation like google has I have to accept that my level of organic traffic is not fully in my control and instead focus on things that are in my control such as fully engaging every visitor to my site.

100% Agree - If people are more deserving and they have a more quality site, then that would be one thing. Although the rankings have likely improved in some areas, there are other areas that need to be adjusted.

Yeast Infection Cure for example. See Google Results.

Yeast Infection Cure
The line-height in the content is different for crying out loud. Lol

But it
still ranks on page #1 above Earth Clinic.

Yeast Infection Cures
Earth Clinic is actually one of my favorite home remedy sites. It's user
submitted content that goes on forever, but it's well organized and very
beneficial. Feel free to check it out.

As you can see, some changes do need to be made.

Regardless, I see this as an opportunity.

1. Normally, I write 2 articles a day, 5 days a week. This time around, I will
be focusing on 1 quality article each day. I will write on Tuesday, Wednesday,
and Thursday.

2. Friday will be my guest post day. I will get 1 quality backlink a week from
posting a guest post on another blogger's website.

3. I haven't been making Youtube videos lately. I am going to begin making
Youtube videos again, and posting them on Mondays. I will link these videos
directly to my squeeze page.

4. Focus on muscle building again. Instead of writing articles like a nutty
professor, I will begin focusing on muscle building again. The more muscular
I am, and by posting vids on Youtube 1 time a week, means the more
sign ups I will get.

This is an opportunity, folks.

It's time to switch it up. You can no longer make good money just for having
written content, unless you're lucky enough to avoid each Panda update.

Times have changed.

For me, times changing actually means producing less written content,
producing more video content, and proving (by building muscle) that I know
what I am doing to my audience.

For those of you still using AdSense...

One day, Google might decide to smack you with a Panda update. My advice
to you is to capture those emails while you have the organic traffic.

Just last week, I sent out 1 email, and within 24 hours, I had 150 Clickbank
hops automatically to my bud's product. (Sadly, his page didn't convert.) Point being, the
power is in the List. The list is something Google can NEVER take away from
you!

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Mike Anthony 15 years ago

Originally Posted by ttomp13

You think I don't get this? I do . But does it make it right? That's the point I
was trying to make.

I know but I just can't figure how you think it is wrong for them not to give you their traffic to make money off of. They can do what they want with their own traffic, Now if you have your own traffic then I can see you wanting more per click but complaining about them not sending you their traffic by reducing your rank has nothing with them being morally wrong.

There no sense griping about it . Its their search engine traffic . You either play the game or not which is one of the reasons bookcaverns post was so on target.
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boxoun

15 years ago

Originally Posted by DireStraits

I don't think there's much to be said that hasn't been said many times before, on this subject, to be honest.

There are only so many ways you can say "S**t!", "Ahhhhh!", "Oh noes!", "Now what?!", "Google does evils!11", "WTF", and so on.

And there's really only one lesson to be learned from these ongoing changes: there's no way to truly safeguard your sites from Google's flak; being too reliant on the Big G for your traffic is plenty risky, so avoid reliance as much as possible and don't take anything for granted.

Things are being said. Unlike many people in this forum, those companies rely on real data and stats before making opinions. People here touting quality content as if I don't have garbage ranking high over my other quality sites. If anything, this update makes me want to continue producing garbage

I agree with you that building business around Google is stupid.

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Lares 15 years ago

Well one of my site that was unaffected October 13/14 dropped yesterday from 1st position to 2nd page.

SERPs are totally random. Amazon gained most for now. I see it on number 1 spot for every product in my niches.
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Mike Anthony

15 years ago

Originally Posted by rimam1

I haven't read anything about this shakeup on SearchEngineJournal, SearchEngineLand, SEOBook, SEOMoz, or Sphinn.

I would have thought someone would say something by now.

Frankly it seems to be nowhere near as big a story outside of IM niches which was what I was just referring to with someone by PM awhile algo. Anywhere heres one reference

Google Panda 2.5.2 Update - October 13th

Also I think some people are forgetting how search engines work - An algo isn't always something that you flick a switch and it organizes existing crawl data. Sometimes the algo has to go out and look for new metrics on sites. So sites that get crawled often would begin to see the changes quicker while sites that may take a few days to get crawled will not see changes until they are crawled and indexed again. So who knows a few of the sites that are tanking might see a rebound when they are crawled and indexed again. It doesn't have to be a correction for the serps to change - just more sites getting crawled.

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Fraggler

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Frankly it seems to be nowhere near as big a story outside of IM niches which was what I was just referring to with someone by PM awhile algo.

There are some angry people over at Webmaster World about the update - and those guys despise affiliate sites. :p

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Mike Anthony

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Fraggler

There are some angry people over at Webmaster World about the update - and those guys despise affiliate sites. :p

Troy I see people in those threads with adsense and affiliate sites. Not saying it s 100% IMer sites but like Rimam I am not seeing this being blown up as a big story much where as you know the bigger updates were all over because they affected a wide sector of businesses. Maybe the algo has not worked itself through all my niches but I am not seeing a big change in any serp I am in with my sites.

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ExploringInfinity

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Troy I see people in those threads with adsense and affiliate sites. Not saying it s 100% IMer sites but like Rimam I am not seeing this being blown up as a big story much where as you know the bigger updates were all over because they affected a wide sector of businesses. Maybe the algo has not worked itself through all my niches but I am not seeing a big change in any serp I am in with my sites.

It's definitely not just IM sites, because all of the sites of mine that were hit were NOT IM related at all..

And the one site that doesn't seem to have taken any loss (so far) is my one IM site...

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Fraggler

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Troy I see people in those threads with adsense and affiliate sites. Not saying it s 100% IMer sites but like Rimam I am not seeing this being blown up as a big story much where as you know the bigger updates were all over because they affected a wide sector of businesses. Maybe the algo has not worked itself through all my niches but I am not seeing a big change in any serp I am in with my sites.

Yeah, perhaps. I don't pay much attention to the SEO news sites so I don't have a guage for its impact.

I might have jumped the gun too on the impact on my sites. It looks like it may be a few key keywords dropping from #1, but still top 5, causing a bigger drop in traffic than I was expecting.

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Mike Anthony

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Fraggler

I might have jumped the gun too on the impact on my sites. It looks like it may be a few key keywords dropping from #1, but still top 5, causing a bigger drop in traffic than I was expecting.

I wouldn't worry about it too much now Troy. Like I was saying in another post there is nothing to say every site out there has been recrawled and indexed. It will probably take a few more days to see where everything settles out or maybe even another week.

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ttomp13

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Rick B

Anything can be proven by handpicking two sites. That doesn't prove anything.

First of all, Facebook likes are nofollow backlinks and have little or no effect on search position at Google. So if your buddie's site has 1000 Facebook likes and a bunch of artificial backlinks, it would still follow that his site's traffic fell due to Google devaluing junk backlinks.

Secondly, your site may have very few backlinks but their quality in Google's opinion is better than average so it's traffic increased due to all of the other sites being devalued. Plus, while you should be congratulated for tripling your traffic, the numbers are low and an 80 visitor per day increase isn't enough to prove anything. One new link from a decent site could bring in more than that.

I have no way of knowing whether those things are true or if there's some other explanation but I worry that isolated examples like this might convince others that Google is not doing what's in their best interest ... namely improving their SERPs by devaluing artificial backlinks.

My buddy has 1,000+ quality facebook likes... I know these are nofollow...
That wasn't my point. My point was that if he is getting likes from actual
people on Facebook, it must mean his content is good. Which it is.

Meanwhile, one of my trash sites (built with all profile backlinks) shot up
in the rankings.

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MDSEO 15 years ago

this update definately killed one of my side businesses... i mean went from like 200 hits a day to like 15... why cant they just leave stuff alone and quit messing with it. dont they realize some people have bills to pay!
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MaverickUK

15 years ago

Google has updated Panda to penalise websites that have crappy content?

YAY!

It's strange how i've never been affected by Google Panda and i'm fairly confident it's because the quality of content on my website is high. There has to be some sort of correlation of no Panda infractions and the fact the information on my websites is of high quality - either that or i should put the lottery on

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W.P. Allen

15 years ago

Originally Posted by MaverickUK

Google has updated Panda to penalise websites that have crappy content?

YAY!

It's strange how i've never been affected by Google Panda and i'm fairly confident it's because the quality of content on my website is high. There has to be some sort of correlation of no Panda infractions and the fact the information on my websites is of high quality - either that or i should put the lottery on

I have a 7 year old site with hundreds of articles that are 100% unique and high quality that got hit really hard. So I don't think it has anything to do with quality.

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MaverickUK

15 years ago

Originally Posted by W.P. Allen

I have a 7 year old site with hundreds of articles that are 100% unique and high quality that got hit really hard. So I don't think it has anything to do with quality.

I really do think it's related to quality in some aspect, not sure which, yet. However you must remember that Google is just an algorithm, they are susceptible to making mistakes as with humans. Plus i strongly believe their 'bot' is more idiotic than many people can fathom.

Hopefully they will rectify their mistakes on websites that truly deserve to be ranked. In all honesty, i actually quite hate Google, but hey, you gotta be in it to win it.

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Ele-Jota 15 years ago

Something VERY interesting happened - VERY depressing too...

My site has been affected throughout, most keywords have gone down a few places, and my traffic has also gone down accordingly. BUT there is something which, apart from making me feel awfully depressed, has also caught my attention.

My site is a WP site with excellent on page seo, unique content and fresh updates a few times a week. There is ONE page though, which is the MOST important, the sales page of my ebook.

This particular page is the ONLY one that is very different from the other ones because:

- it has no no sidebars (it has been laid out like a squeeze page)
- it has no ads
- it had no social media buttons (until yesterday)
- it contains a clickbank product
- its content is constantly copied (duplicated) by hopeful affiliates who think this is the way to go making sales... (I have given up emailing them now, it is a waste of time).

Well, this page has been COMPLETELY wiped out of Googleland since the 14th. Makes you think.... I have now added a Facebook like button at the bottom, and asked my friends to click on "like", as a desperate attempt to rescue it from hell...LOL

Can't think of any quick way of getting it back, as Google seems to have taken a serious dislike on it since the update. Was number 1 page for most targeted keywords before... * sigh *

One year worths of work out of the window...yay!! Luckily my home page is still alive...so will try to get more leads from there I guess...

Something good will come out of this, I am sure ... ! (....let's hope!...)
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Justin Lavoie

15 years ago

My site went down the drain 2 weeks ago. I was getting some very good results, a couple keywords slowly getting to the top 10 with 2-3 KW in top 5.....I lost everything in a matter of hours, site disapeared from top 500...

However, this morning I kinda crashed the place getting tons of keywords back on the top, much better than it was 2 weeks ago, best results ever. I did some minor changes yesterday which might have helped but still, my site is only 5 months old with PR2.

I guess there is always hope somewhere, you just gotta keep doing the right things.

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prince007

15 years ago

Yes, my own websites and all my client websites have seen increased in SERP around 9-10 am - GMT, Friday 14th Oct. 2011. However, one of my main keyword drop from 3rd to 8, actually it was thin affiliate website. All other affiliate websites have quality content, authority links and all varieties of links have seen improvement in ranking. All of my client website who are into ecommerce, have seen improve in ranking.

My one site which is in weight loss niche is no 1 now, getting traffic of around 1300-1400 per day as compared to 800 per day before updates.

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Justin Lavoie

15 years ago

Dolors, give it a few days or a week or two. I really don't think you have wasted a year... I think some major changes are happening right now and if your site is of high quality, youre gonna bounce back quick enough. Thats my understanding right now of the process going on and many people seem to think the same thing...

...however, at the end of the day, google is still the only one in control, nobody has the perfect recipe.

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Ele-Jota

15 years ago

Originally Posted by wolfez

Dolors, give it a few days or a week or two. I really don't think you have wasted a year... I think some major changes are happening right now and if your site is of high quality, youre gonna bounce back quick enough. Thats my understanding right now of the process going on and many people seem to think the same thing...

...however, at the end of the day, google is still the only one in control, nobody has the perfect recipe.

Thank you Wolfez.

Yes, we all need to wait before jumping into any conclusions... And yes, Google is in control, whether we like it or not!

Let's see what happens in a few days :-)

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36burrows

15 years ago

Yes, we've all been affected in one way or another.

Time to man up, pick up the pieces and move on.

I know it sucks to lose years worth of work in literally one night, but if this is something you truly want, you'll find a way to make it happen.

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IM Gigi

15 years ago

It is definitely important to be consistent, more than anything else. With my Sniper sites, the first tweak I had to make a year ago was to begin adding relevant, consistent content and backlinks. The days of putting up a site and walking away are long gone.

Learning to think like Google is impossible - but if you focus on giving value to the customer and understand you need to be in it for the long haul, you will always end up okay. Yes, my connected FB pages have helped save me and my sites from a complete drop in sales, but it still hurt!

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cagliostro 15 years ago

In my main niche (travel) i have lost many-many keywords for now.

What puzzles me is that the top 10 travel websites haven't been touched and they belong to big players like LonelyPlanet.com and TimeOut.com.

Also some junk websites between them, so let's not talk please about "quality" any more. Guess what ? All of them have huge ammount of backlinks, some really strong backlinks.
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mosthost

15 years ago

I can honestly say I don't see this "quality" upgrade that some people are claiming. I still find lots of poorly conceived and written articles when I search. Google should head back to the drawing board.

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mrmatt

15 years ago

I have had my butt kicked.

Never paid much attention to rankings. Just checked in daily to see earnings on adsense. Although from the times when I did check they have all dropped from top 3 spots to bottom of the page or even to page 2.

Should have flipped them when I could have. HA HA HA

My adsense is down over 80% since the change. I have not built links to any of these sites in over a year.

My clients sites where I used BMR have all moved up the ranks.

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FreeMeal

15 years ago

my few amazon review sites which all completely disappeared from google a few days ago have all now reappeared back roughly to the positions they were previous for the keywords i was trgeting. Still no sign of the long-tail product names. Things are shifting about happening no doubt.

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nicnac03

15 years ago

Interestingly enough, a page that I put up about 6 months ago with ZERO backlinks is now sitting pretty in position 5 for it's targeted keyword. /shrug

Time to do a little backlinking.

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Galyna

15 years ago

Originally Posted by trustumar

Today i have noticed changes in google. It seems google is rewarding aged authority sites. Is there anybody else who observed this change?

Yes! 2 of my main income websites got slapped! 80% of Google traffic drop.
My referal traffic is now more than from Google.

One website was on # 2 for 6 months. After this Panda update, it's #10 - almost disappeared!

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mrtrance

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Galyna

Yes! 2 of my main income websites got slapped! 80% of Google traffic drop.
My referal traffic is now more than from Google.

One website was on # 2 for 6 months. After this Panda update, it's #10 - almost disappeared!

I have similar drops to many of sites that are Adsense sites with just 1 Adsense block and have same theme/setup. Typically sites ranking #1 or #2 (unique content, updated recently, and with 10+ pages of content) for months on in have dropped now to #8-#10 and some back to top of page 2. Then there are others that I have not touched in almost a year with like 1 page of content and nothing happened to them or move up a few spots. I have another site that was MIA from the SERPs for like 5 months and all of sudden after the update came back to page 2.

So it seems to be all over the place on what got hit and didn't and we can't really say "it was because of this or that" that is causing the drop.
I haven't done any new backlinks to the sites that dropped to see if they might recover again soon. But, I might build some edu/gov backlinks to see if that helps them or not to move up again. Anyone done any new backlinks in the last couple of days and noticed any changes to their sites?

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John Ralph

15 years ago

I have about 25 microniche sites, I would say they have all stayed about the same. Averaging roughly the same per month, I had a bit of a dip a few months ago but things evened themselves out. I haven't touched the sites in a long time. So all in all it is going ok!

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nicnac03

15 years ago

Hey guys, I just checked my webmaster tools and google has stopped giving me stats after the 14th. This is for all my sites. You think that has any correlation to the crazy rankings the past few days? Maybe they know the rankings will be out of whack and so didn't bother to record stats since they're messing with stuff?

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kidder

15 years ago

They have a unique position and responsibility, when they shake up the results real people get hurt. I think Google needs to be very careful, their time is coming and they will end up getting regulated.

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mikekiske

15 years ago

my site still shows no signs of recovering to it what used to be :sigh:
All my targeted keywords now languishing in SERP, the visitors dropped to just few hundreds.

I wonder it is to do with SEO Search Term Tagging 2 Plugin because a friend of mine who installed it on his site also had the same problem?

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cooler1

15 years ago

When the last Panda update was rolled out about 6-7 months ago, wasn't there some fairly big changes about 1 or 2 weeks later where a lot of the effected sites moved back up the SERPs, if i remember correctly?

Unfortunatly most people seem to reckon this latest Panda update will stay like this for the foreseeable.

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fancydressqueen

15 years ago

Originally Posted by cooler1

When the last Panda update was rolled out about 6-7 months ago, wasn't there some fairly big changes about 1 or 2 weeks later where a lot of the effected sites moved back up the SERPs, if i remember correctly?

Unfortunatly most people seem to reckon this latest Panda update will stay like this for the for the foreseeable.

This is the unpredictable nature of the beast. Making a prediction is exactly that, we don't know for sure. Unless you work behind the scenes we just don't know what will happen and when.

Keep working hard on your sites, improve where you can and keep your fingers crossed for more news in the near future.

Thanks

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supershoesclub

15 years ago

[DELETED]

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Giani

15 years ago

I have seen reduced number of visitors to my few sites and was really concerned, Seems Google is dancing again.

.

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mrtrance

15 years ago

I've noticed in a niche that I work in the #1 site that was ranking for last 6 months was dropped on 10/14 to the #3 position. Then when I checked the SERPs this morning they have gone back up to the #1 spot again. They were in the #3 spot all weekend long. For the same keyword I am targeting my site stayed on at this same position on page 2 before and after the October update. So I don't know if things are shifting again and sites are moving back to their previous positions, but let's hope that it starts to happen to several of my sites where I was #1 and now on page 2. Maybe it takes time for the datacenters to update again?

Anyone know why that site went back up to the #1 spot again? I'm sure it wasn't additional content or any backlinks that they did since it would not show up that fast. Their site is on a everyday product with affiliate links. Each post talks about a specific brand or model and will links to various stores like Best Buy, Amazon, Buy.com.

The site hasn't added any new content since 8/2010.

Thanks

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Matt Ward

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

UPDATE Panda 2.5 came out in September.

2.5 DID NOT COME OUT LAST OCTOBER 14th. THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT 2.5

Can we have a better source Ttom. Same might apply to this update but just to be clear any information about 2.5 is already three weeks old.

The quote ttomp13 is talking about is here: https://twitter.com/#!/mattcutts/status/121480187375398912

Dated Oct 5th... meaning the "next few weeks" would have meant the Oct 14th shakeup. Cutts wasn't saying that there would be changes to the Oct 14th update...

Misleading post...

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ttomp13

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Matt Ward

The quote ttomp13 is talking about is here: https://twitter.com/#!/mattcutts/status/121480187375398912

Dated Oct 5th... meaning the "next few weeks" would have meant the Oct 14th shakeup. Cutts wasn't saying that there would be changes to the Oct 14th update...

Misleading post...

I swear... What do you have to do to get people to listen around here? Do I
need to post a screen capture for every little statement I make? Apparently so.
I'm not an idiot, folks. (Been in the game for 3+ years). Definitely not a pro, but
definitely not an idiot.

If the statement was old, my bad... But it doesn't mean fluctuations are no
longer taking place.

Obviously, fluctuations are still occurring....

Oh... Just so I don't get hammered again... 96.6% of traffic is from Google.
(Just so you know I didn't get traffic from Stumble or Digg for a few days
or something.)

Fluctuations are still taking place.

I have seen a number of my rankings go from the #1 spot (before the 14th)
to page #2 or #3, and then back to page #1 again. I would have screen
captured this too, but didn't know my rankings were going to disappear
the 14th, and thus, I can't prove what my rankings were beforehand.

By the way, this is one of my garbage sites. It has good content, and it's
all unique, but I was just creating the content for the money. The content
is useful, but there are better sources. This was NOT my main site that got hit.

All I am trying to point out here is that fluctuations are still taking place.

PS: Matt Cutts does say, "Next few weeks." So if "few weeks" only means 13 days...

Cutts posted fluctuations would be occurring for the next few weeks on the 5th.
It is now the 18th...

I wonder what Cutt's definition of a "few" is?

Regardless, I've shown you physical evidence that changes are still taking place.

Thanks
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Mike Anthony

15 years ago

Ttomp your post about an update that quotes Matt Cutt was wrong. That referred to the 2.5 update as has been pointed out.

Can there be fluctuations now? Yes. in fact there are always fluctuations in serps. Some times theres a drop because a site has been crawled before another one. So no one is claiming that people can't get back rank but that does not mean that Matt Cutt said so as you reported for this update

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ttomp13

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Ttomp your post about an update that quotes Matt Cutt was wrong. That referred to the 2.5 update as has been pointed out.

Matt Cutts stated on 5 Oct via web

Weather report: expect some Panda-related flux in the next few weeks,
but will have less impact than previous updates (~2%).

October 5th + Next Few Weeks can be either less than > October 18th < or greater than.

If October 5th to October 18th (13 days) is a "few weeks" for Cutts, then I am
wrong. But I see a "few weeks" as 3 to 4 weeks, right?

So explain to me how I am wrong. If I am, I apologize for sounding arrogant,
but I just don't get how my original post was incorrect?

(If I am wrong, I guess Matt Cutt's is wrong too...?) Lol. I am just saying
what Matt Cutt's said.

Even if I was referring to the 2.5 update, (which I believe 2.5.2 is what rolled
out on the 14th, right?) then we should still see adjustments from the 2.5.0
update regardless, since a "few weeks" hasn't happened yet. (depending on
Cutt's definition of "few weeks.")

This isn't a guess... These are facts straight from Cutt's himself. My traffic
graph backs up Cutt's statement. It all comes back down to Cutt's definition
of "few weeks."

To continue, I don't see what the difference is. Who gives a rats ass what
Cutt's said? If fluctuations are occurring, (more than normal) then we can
only assume that they will continue to occur until things begin to settle down.

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MDSEO

15 years ago

Originally Posted by ttomp13

Matt Cutts stated on 5 Oct via web

Weather report: expect some Panda-related flux in the next few weeks,
but will have less impact than previous updates (~2%).

October 5th + Next Few Weeks can be either less than > October 18th < or greater than.

If October 5th to October 18th (13 days) is a "few weeks" for Cutts, then I am wrong. But I see
a "few weeks" as 3 to 4 weeks, right?

So explain to me how I am wrong. If I am, I apologize for sounding arrogant,
but I just don't get how my original post was incorrect?

Even if I was referring to the 2.5 update, (which I believe 2.5.2 is what rolled
out on the 14th, right?) then we should still see adjustments from the 2.5.0
update regardless, since a "few weeks" hasn't happened yet. (depending on
Cutt's definition of "few weeks."

lol... google makes my head hurt!

[ 1 ] Thanks
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carp104 15 years ago

My sites are still down in the SERPs and haven't budged since they were hit Oct 14th.

I am just going to keep working on my sites for now and hope things get better over the next few weeks. If not then I seriously need to change tracks in the IM business. Just when I though I had this figured out and started to get a few sites making half-way decent money and got very excited and planned out 5 more sites, this happens.
- Thanks
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Mike Anthony 15 years ago

Originally Posted by ttomp13

So explain to me how I am wrong. If I am, I apologize for sounding arrogant,
but I just don't get how my original post was incorrect?.

I'll try one last time but I still don't think you will get it. October 5th Matt said there would be fluctuations to the update done in LATE SEPTEMBER.

Around the 14th Matt stated that there was NEW update (some people call it Panda 2.52). IT WAS NOT a fluctuation on a previous algo update but a NEW update.

Will there be fluctuations here? Maybe but claiming that Matt cutts has stated that there will be for THIS update as another poster besides me indicated as well is misleading. there. Run with it some more its been explained now three times.
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hamburglar

15 years ago

The authority website I am building has not been affected. Actually improved.

Details:
50 pages worth of content
3 youtube videos based on niche
age: 3 months.

I think the key is to get in touch with the target market through forums and really provide unique content. That is what I have been doing for the past 3 months. Eventually you will not need Google but rather have a community of your own.

Regards,
H

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ttomp13

15 years ago

Originally Posted by hamburglar

I think the key is to get in touch with the target market through forums and really provide unique content. That is what I have been doing for the past 3 months. Eventually you will not need Google but rather have a community of your own.

Right on, brother.

Although I still believe my rankings will return, as well as the rankings of
many others, people should take this time to reflect.

Are you building a brand?

When I think of quality websites, I think of websites that are branded.
Shoemoney, Problogger, Smart Passive Income Blog, and on a lower scale,
the Bad Blogger, for example.

To build a brand, you should be working on Youtube and Facebook. Guest
posting is also a good idea.

You should be in constant contact with your readers. This means having a
blogging, video, and guest posting schedule. This also means checking and
responding to emails on a regular basis.

My new post panda schedule:
Monday - Video
Tuesday - Blog Post
Wednesday - Blog Post
Thursday - Blog Post
Friday - Guest Post

Readers are looking to read from users who have actually experienced and/or
attained the desired outcome that they, themselves are trying to experience.

Your goal should be to establish credibility.

You do this by proving that your techniques are worth using, because you,
yourself have accomplished a goal that the reader is trying to accomplish.

Gone are the days of throwing together a good, factual article. People don't
want to read a fact book. People want to read other people's experiences.
People want to be talked to like they're your friends. And for me, my subscribers
are.

To be successful, you should do everything in this paragraph...

When you prove you're credible using your blog, Youtube, and Facebook,
you will begin to build a brand. When people see that you're unique and have
accomplished what they're attempting to accomplish, they will come to you
for questions. Answer their questions to establish trust, and always friend
them on Facebook. From there, people will subscribe to you. When this
happens, you will be on your way to success.

Being successful in this game is just like picking up girls. Get in, get the contact information,
and get out of the situation. Then, when they need you, always respond.

You want to make good money online?

- Have a posting schedule.
- Prove you're credible.
- Use Blogging, Youtube, and Facebook.
- Build a brand.
- Respond to all reader comments.

And remember... If you can't wear it on a T-shirt, you won't get it in cash.

Thanks

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blogworker

15 years ago

No, not really, all of my sites are doing pretty well, I submit everything manually with unique content.

comes here again.
what i want to add is that, after the first update that we should realize that only original content can keep alive forever. if you insist on this, your site will never be punished by google.

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Cool Hand Luke

15 years ago

Originally Posted by blogworker

comes here again.
what i want to add is that, after the first update that we should realize that only original content can keep alive forever. if you insist on this, your site will never be punished by google.

:rolleyes:
That is absolutely, 100% FALSE.

A lot of people with great, original, unique content got hit hard. Not just in this update, but many before it. Are you even reading the thread?

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Oranges

15 years ago

Originally Posted by blogworker

comes here again.
what i want to add is that, after the first update that we should realize that only original content can keep alive forever. if you insist on this, your site will never be punished by google.

Really?
Check this out! Metformin side effects - Google Search

Read the content of that #1 site, your myth will be busted!

[ 1 ] Thanks
4 replies

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36burrows 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Oranges

Really?
Check this out! Metformin side effects - Google Search

Read the content of that #1 site, your myth will be busted!

Thanks Google.

You guys really got things figured out over there.
- Thanks
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ttomp13

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Oranges

Really?
Check this out! Metformin side effects - Google Search

Read the content of that #1 site, your myth will be busted!

I think we should all strive to produce content like the #1 site.
The #2 site obviously doesn't produce more quality content than the #1 site.
It's clear to me that the #1 site is well written, and deserves to be #1.

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Dellco

15 years ago

Originally Posted by ttomp13

I think we should all strive to produce content like the #1 site.
The #2 site obviously doesn't produce more quality content than the #1 site.
It's clear to me that the #1 site is well written, and deserves to be #1.

Many here have sites just like that, so it's a bit ironic....

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ttomp13 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Dellco

Many here have sites just like that, so it's a bit ironic....

I'm sure this is probably true, but just so people are aware, many legit sites
did get hit.

For example: GeekSyrup IN | Blogging | Reviews | News

I ran into that site a few days ago after looking for Panda information. To me,
this site produces awesome, quality, and informative content. Unsure as to
why it was hit...

I'm going to bed, but I have noticed an increase in traffic on my site and my
friends site which were both hit by Panda 2.5.2.

Expect rankings to continue to fluctuate. I wouldn't be surprised to see
quality sites which were accidentally hit go back to where they were
originally, if not higher.
- Thanks
- 1 reply
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- rinor81 15 years ago
  
  22,000 exact searches a month in the US and these are the garbage sites which are #1 and #2 on Google???
  
  So what? Everything we thought we knew about SEO is gone? Or is Google just trying to fool us because it's working....can't believe it!
  
  Keep writing content, keep building links and keep thinking how to make money not just from Google, if you have some ideas please let me know...
  
  Thanks
  
  Signature
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Mike Anthony 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Dellco

Many here have sites just like that, so it's a bit ironic....

No lie. I get Pms all the time from people needing help and that site is better than many of them. Now the thing is it reads horrible but theres no algo that can read and appreciate quality. So it does have the content to rank and theres little else to do but get a manual reviewer but Google isn't going to pay for the cost of manual reviewers to go after all the long tails in the world.

Maybe thats why they are going after scuzzy links. If links are really from quality sites then it eases the work for them since a good site will normally only link to something at least readable. People think that links are different from content quality to google but links are how Google can get human reviewers for free. They'll keep increasing their hunt to eliminate scuzzy links. No doubt about it. the alternative is too expensive.
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vij

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Oranges

Really?
Check this out! Metformin side effects - Google Search

Read the content of that #1 site, your myth will be busted!

Since the update lot of EMDs may have received a boost. Google wants to give a push to brands and EMD is probably a loose generic definition of that.

Thanks
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Oranges

15 years ago

Originally Posted by vij

Since the update lot of EMDs may have received a boost. Google wants to give a push to brands and EMD is probably a loose generic definition of that.

Forget about the EMD thing, did you even read the content? Its TheBestSpinner produced spun article for Christ sake! As they "ALL" say panda update thrive on quality content blah blah blah! Gawd gimme a break!

It was just a random update to confuse people that what works and what doesn't!

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vij

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Oranges

Forget about the EMD thing, did you even read the content? Its TheBestSpinner produced spun article for Christ sake! As they "ALL" say panda update thrive on quality content blah blah blah! Gawd gimme a break!

I know. I even saw a parked EMD at 1 :p

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Mike Anthony 15 years ago

Originally Posted by vij

Since the update lot of EMDs may have received a boost. Google wants to give a push to brands and EMD is probably a loose generic definition of that.

You might have a really good point there that explains why Google although saying they want to limit the effect of EMDs hasn't been able to yet.
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GlobalTrader

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Oranges

Really?
Check this out! Metformin side effects - Google Search

Read the content of that #1 site, your myth will be busted!

Weird? The first time I clicked your link Wikipedia was listed as number 1 then about 10 minutes later it was the site I "think" you are referring to - they must really be be turning the dial on this one.

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Oranges

15 years ago

Originally Posted by GlobalTrader

Weird? The first time I clicked your link Wikipedia was listed as number 1 then about 10 minutes later it was the site I "think" you are referring to - they must really be be turning the dial on this one.

Yeah, i was talking about the EMD .org one.
LOL if they are turning the dial on this one, then there are thousands of them floating everywhere after this update.

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whoismarktaylor

15 years ago

It's clear Panda is clearing out the crud.

It makes sense to serve up the best, most relevant pages to it's inventory ( the searcher ) and Google has a simple decision to make.

Google knows the days of backlinks are coming to an end!

If your relying on backlinks... its only going to get harder. And that makes sense.

Social indicators ( people sharing, liking and +1'ing your stuff ) this is where Google and the like are going.

Lets face it, if 50 people are 'talking' about your new content... and im looking for information about it, do i really want to see something written 6 months or 2 years ago with a gazillion links OR do I want want to see the buzz.... what people are saying now.

I'm certain that long term... affiliate only sites will see less traffic from Google. The set it and forget it approach will see long term decline and ALL the search engines will start to favour those people who engage their target market...

Back to fundamentals..... 'serve your market'

Mark

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vij

15 years ago

Originally Posted by whoismarktaylor

It's clear Panda is clearing out the crud.

It makes sense to serve up the best, most relevant pages to it's inventory ( the searcher ) and Google has a simple decision to make.

Google knows the days of backlinks are coming to an end!

If your relying on backlinks... its only going to get harder. And that makes sense.

Social indicators ( people sharing, liking and +1'ing your stuff ) this is where Google and the like are going.

Lets face it, if 50 people are 'talking' about your new content... and im looking for information about it, do i really want to see something written 6 months or 2 years ago with a gazillion links OR do I want want to see the buzz.... what people are saying now.

I'm certain that long term... affiliate only sites will see less traffic from Google. The set it and forget it approach will see long term decline and ALL the search engines will start to favour those people who engage their target market...

Back to fundamentals..... 'serve your market'

Mark

I dont think backlinks will ever become totally useless. But we could see increased importance of social signals. Even social signals can be gamed easily you know. I worked with some big clients who have thousands of FB likes and good social presence most of which have been gamed.

Originally Posted by merry0780

I have not seen any changes to my site and my keywords in search engines

Maybe because of your dynamic signature link strategy :p
Why would you link the singular and plural anchor text to the same page from your signature?

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boxoun

15 years ago

Social signals can be gamed. It already is with twitter. I don't get those who tout social media as if it can't be? Also, not everything is social. Information on bleaching anus will never be shared or liked. Product niches maybe but the information type of sites aren't social friendly. Google will continue to use links in some aspect. Otherwise I might have to start printing shirts with bleach anus and start my brand.

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vij

15 years ago

My best site that wasnt affected on October 14th fell from #1 to #3 just sometime back.

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mrtrance

15 years ago

So it seems the effects are still being seen even today 5 days after the initial change in the results. I did notice changes here and there where some thin sites ranking #8 moved up to #2 spot tonight that were at the old spot the last 4 days. So who knows how the results will be in a few days from now since things are constantly changing.

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Oranges

15 years ago

Originally Posted by peterjamesmorris

yes, a super-thin site took my place on the first page. one of the worst websites I've seen - 1 page of about 70 words lol

just have to wait and see what happens.

ROFLMAO! 70 words?

In my 5 years of IM i have never seen such a bizarre update from G.
WTH their nerds been smoking off late eh?:confused:

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Oranges

15 years ago

Originally Posted by peterjamesmorris

Was exagerrating (forgot that doesn't come across properly in text form)! Although only slightly, it is one page with 3 reviews- each "review" is about 70 words long, then a couple of paragraphs which have been copied and pasted from Ezine articles

Don't think they will leaving results like this up there long, so some of us may recover yet lol

You never know with G lol

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GetKane

Banned 15 years ago

I responded on this thread about having a tattoo of my brand and the comment was deleted?

Really?

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bmcgoff

15 years ago

This update killed two of my best sites. What's funny is they were replaced by exact copycat sites with crappy content and thrown together layouts. I mean these sites that are ranking above mine are terrible. My content is unique and well written and my sites look pretty nice.

Hoping this is temporary but haven't seen a comeback yet!

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stelweb

15 years ago

Originally Posted by bmcgoff

This update killed two of my best sites. What's funny is they were replaced by exact copycat sites with crappy content and thrown together layouts. I mean these sites that are ranking above mine are terrible. My content is unique and well written and my sites look pretty nice.

Hoping this is temporary but haven't seen a comeback yet!

They are just about to enjoy the honeymoon period. I am sure they will be down soon.

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Chris Sweeney

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Oranges

Really?
Check this out! Metformin side effects - Google Search

Read the content of that #1 site, your myth will be busted!

Haha true, that content is wwwweeeeaaaakkkk! Take a look at that site's backlink profile though. Not so weak. Whoever is doing the SEO for that site is smart. Here's a few points to take away from the methods that site is using.

1) First, like many are saying, his content on-page is obviously not the best quality.
2) He's using high PR home page backlinks and/or a private blog network.
3) He's using high PR Blogroll/footer links (PR is on homepage AND on many inner pages)
4) The pages he's linking from are not relevant to his money site AT ALL.
5) He's using MINIMAL anchor text variation
6) I see minimal, if any, crap links pointing to his site, i.e. blog comments with thousands of OBLs, crappy profile links, etc.
7) About 95% of his links come from only 2 IPs.
8) 99% of his links come from .com domains, and the remaining 1% come from .net/.org/.ca/.md.
9) 99% of his links come from USA IP addresses.
10) 99% of the domains where his links reside aren't listed in the DMOZ or Yahoo directories.
11) The domain is only a year old (Oct. 5, 2010).

Everybody should keep those things in mind when trying to rank your next sites. That being said, maybe we can now better understand what Google does and does not care about in terms of ranking.

- Quality links are the key.
- Links don't have to be from relevant sites/pages.
- Of course your content on your money site should be quality for your visitors, but it obviously doesn't need to be quality in order to fool Google's algo.
- Don't worry so much about varying your anchor text because it's obviously not that important. (It's probably still a good idea to vary it a little though in case Google decides to weight varied anchor text heavier as a ranking factor in the future).
- Don't waste your time with crap links. (Again, sure, throw in a few of them for the sake of link/IP diversity, but those crap links won't help you rank for real money-making terms.)

Thanks
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GetKane

Banned 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Chris Sweeney

Haha true, that content is wwwweeeeaaaakkkk! Take a look at that site's backlink profile though. Not so weak. Whoever is doing the SEO for that site is smart. Here's a few points to take away from the methods that site is using.

1) First, like many are saying, his content on-page is obviously not the best quality.
2) He's using high PR home page backlinks and/or a private blog network.
3) He's using high PR Blogroll/footer links (PR is on homepage AND on many inner pages)
4) The pages he's linking from are not relevant to his money site AT ALL.
5) He's using MINIMAL anchor text variation
6) I see minimal, if any, crap links pointing to his site, i.e. blog comments with thousands of OBLs, crappy profile links, etc.
7) About 95% of his links come from only 2 IPs.
8) 99% of his links come from .com domains, and the remaining 1% come from .net/.org/.ca/.md.
9) 99% of his links come from USA IP addresses.
10) 99% of the domains where his links reside aren't listed in the DMOZ or Yahoo directories.

Everybody should keep those things in mind when trying to rank your next sites. That being said, maybe we can now better understand what Google does and does not care about in terms of ranking.

- Quality links are the key.
- Links don't have to be from relevant sites/pages.
- Of course your content on your money site should be quality for your visitors, but it obviously doesn't need to be quality in order to fool Google's algo.
- Don't worry so much about varying your anchor text because it's obviously not that important. (It's probably still a good idea to vary it a little though in case Google decides to weight varied anchor text heavier as a ranking factor in the future).
- Don't waste your time with crap links. (Again, sure, throw in a few of them for the sake of link/IP diversity, but those crap links won't help you rank for real money-making terms.)

https://flippa.com/148355-890-month-...-00-hours-work

You hit so much on the you might as well say, "Can't touch this".

Thanks

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Oranges

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Chris Sweeney

Haha true, that content is wwwweeeeaaaakkkk! Take a look at that site's backlink profile though. Not so weak. Whoever is doing the SEO for that site is smart. Here's a few points to take away from the methods that site is using.

1) First, like many are saying, his content on-page is obviously not the best quality.
2) He's using high PR home page backlinks and/or a private blog network.
3) He's using high PR Blogroll/footer links (PR is on homepage AND on many inner pages)
4) The pages he's linking from are not relevant to his money site AT ALL.
5) He's using MINIMAL anchor text variation
6) I see minimal, if any, crap links pointing to his site, i.e. blog comments with thousands of OBLs, crappy profile links, etc.
7) About 95% of his links come from only 2 IPs.
8) 99% of his links come from .com domains, and the remaining 1% come from .net/.org/.ca/.md.
9) 99% of his links come from USA IP addresses.
10) 99% of the domains where his links reside aren't listed in the DMOZ or Yahoo directories.
11) The domain is only a year old (Oct. 5, 2010).

Everybody should keep those things in mind when trying to rank your next sites. That being said, maybe we can now better understand what Google does and does not care about in terms of ranking.

- Quality links are the key.
- Links don't have to be from relevant sites/pages.
- Of course your content on your money site should be quality for your visitors, but it obviously doesn't need to be quality in order to fool Google's algo.
- Don't worry so much about varying your anchor text because it's obviously not that important. (It's probably still a good idea to vary it a little though in case Google decides to weight varied anchor text heavier as a ranking factor in the future).
- Don't waste your time with crap links. (Again, sure, throw in a few of them for the sake of link/IP diversity, but those crap links won't help you rank for real money-making terms.)

Absolutely right on that! But the point is that can G defend their "QUALITY" crap in this case? It baffles me that how fragile we webmaster are, played like toys in the big hands of those nerdy G engineers who tweaks the algo. everyday from their cafeteria with a cup of cappuccino.

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Chris Sweeney

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Oranges

Absolutely right on that! But the point is that can G defend their "QUALITY" crap in this case? It baffles me that how fragile we webmaster are, played like toys in the big hands of those nerdy G engineers who tweaks the algo. everyday from their cafeteria with a cup of cappuccino.

Yeah I hear ya on that! I'm still not quite sure what to think of this algo change because it's hard to pinpoint any specific reasons why some sites are falling and some similar-quality sites have improved in ranking. I guess we just have to wait and see what happens over the next couple days/weeks while Google recrawls the web :-/

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mileagedriver

15 years ago

I feel the difference but my keyword holds a good position from Oct 13. I think Panda started to consider good and reputed websites.

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danieldavis

15 years ago

Hi...
yes google panda update i noticed it .

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blend

15 years ago

The google pand update has a lot of to do with ages doamins. That i'm sure of after a little investigating!

Blend

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Finkle 15 years ago

Originally Posted by blend

The google pand update has a lot of to do with ages doamins. That i'm sure of after a little investigating!

Blend

Age is not a factor. We have two sites that are both about three years old that also use identical WP templates. One has had very positive results while the other has had very negative results.
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remodeler 15 years ago

Originally Posted by blend

The google pand update has a lot of to do with ages doamins. That i'm sure of after a little investigating!

Blend

Pure inaccurate speculation. I've got a 7 year old site get hit, but not one that is 6 yrs old. I've got a couple of new 3 month sites get hit, but not a few that are 6 months at the moment. All of this is simply guesswork.
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Finkle

15 years ago

Here's what I've noticed:

We have three sites that have been severely impacted by this update. From what I'm seeing, our one site that has a lot of repeat visitors, page views, time on site, etc... has greatly benefited from the update with about a 40% increase in traffic.

On the other hand, two of our sites that have much poorer visitor stats have just gotten annihilated, with some top five keyword rankings dropping into the seventies and traffic decreases from 50% to 70%.

The other factor that may or may not be in play are BMR backlinks. The two sites that got hit the hardest have a lot of BMR links while the other site that has done really well has very, very, few, maybe a dozen. We also have one other site though that has a total of about 70 BMR backlinks that seems not to have been affected at all by the update.

Anyway, if the Panda update is about qualitative issues, then I suggest everyone take a look at their user stats to see if this might not be the primary issue? After all, If I were Google, this is the one factor I would weigh most heavily to determine if a site is truly relevant or not.

Thanks

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FreeMeal

15 years ago

Could it be that Google has placed more weight/value on the total amount of back-links across an entire domain, rather than to an individual page?

This could explain why the top ten SERP's are filled with the big stores such as amazon, walmart etc for longtail and product name keywords (which is usually easy to outrank them on) even though those actual product pages have none, or very little back-links to them.

This also seems to coincide with a lot people losing their longtail and product name traffic with this recent panda update too.

Thanks

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bhuff85

15 years ago

For me, I've noticed the following:

- My sites are all across the board. Some were hit. Some weren't. Some improved, some stayed the same. Needless to say, they all followed the same backlinking and on-page SEO approach.

What does that mean, exactly? Not much, really.

While a lot of people will try to figure out the problem, I'm going to move ahead and continue with the way I do things. To me, it's a lot easier to keep on trucking then spend hours (or days) trying to figure out what "might" have happened.

Besides, by the time you end up figuring out the issue, things will change yet again, only to start an entire thread all over again trying to figure out the reason for that change. No matter how broken it may seem, it will always fluctuate. Nothing is forever in SEO.

I'm just saying - I would use the time to improve what you already have and continue to build. Having a website lose its ranking is never fun, but why not add more value so it can eventually bounce back? Or, better yet, try other methods of traffic generation that you never have before.

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ttomp13

15 years ago

Originally Posted by bhuff85

For me, I've noticed the following:

- My sites are all across the board. Some were hit. Some weren't. Some improved, some stayed the same. Needless to say, they all followed the same backlinking and on-page SEO approach.

What does that mean, exactly? Not much, really.

While a lot of people will try to figure out the problem, I'm going to move ahead and continue with the way I do things. To me, it's a lot easier to keep on trucking then spend hours (or days) trying to figure out what "might" have happened.

Besides, by the time you end up figuring out the issue, things will change yet again, only to start an entire thread all over again trying to figure out the reason for that change. No matter how broken it may seem, it will always fluctuate. Nothing is forever in SEO.

I'm just saying - I would use the time to improve what you already have and continue to build. Having a website lose its ranking is never fun, but why not add more value so it can eventually bounce back? Or, better yet, try other methods of traffic generation that you never have before.

WHO MOVED MY CHEESE?

[ 9 ] Thanks
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Bryan V 15 years ago

@ttomp13 - LOL at the video

Oh man I love cheese. I hope Hem made it.
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- Mike Anthony 15 years ago
  
  Perfect video ttom.
  
  Thanks
  
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marketguy 15 years ago

Originally Posted by ttomp13

WHO MOVED MY CHEESE?

Thank you for that video.
I think, we all need a reminder from time to time.
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mrmatt

15 years ago

That video was awesome. So spot on.

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theebookcavern

15 years ago

Hi guys,

Just wanted to give you a bit of an update and some hope for your own sites. My main keyword was relegated from position 5 to position 13 on Friday 14th October. A couple of days ago it climbed up to position 12 and as of this morning it's now on position 11.

1 of my main competitors has also moved from the second page to position 8.

Cheers,

Tom

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rinor81

15 years ago

Originally Posted by theebookcavern

Hi guys,

Just wanted to give you a bit of an update and some hope for your own sites. My main keyword was relegated from position 5 to position 13 on Friday 14th October. A couple of days ago it climbed up to position 12 and as of this morning it's now on position 11.

1 of my main competitors has also moved from the second page to position 8.

Cheers,

Tom

Hey Tom,

Nothing is still known as of now....I have a keyword which was #4 prior to the new update, it then fell to #12, then moved up to #8 and now again it's on #12 spot....

What can we do? Keep on building links, adding content and monitor Google day by day until we see the end results.

Thanks

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justinpaul

15 years ago

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cagliostro 15 years ago

Some update of from my small 7 websites adsense empire (2 niches).

1. It seems that old domains are LESS affected by changes, still some traffic and ranking is dropped.

2. Exact domains seem LESS affected by changes.

3. I had an old domain that has some so-so content that has been neglected for a year or so. Last week has been getting 20% more traffic and generate some Adsense income !!!
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bmcgoff

15 years ago

Quick update:

Of my two top sites that got hit hard, one is back and better than ever. The other one, unfortunately, isn't. It went from having two main KWs at the #1 spot to no KWs in the top 200. Sucks. But, another site that fell out of the rankings just before the update is ranking higher than ever now. This site is relatively new and pretty competitive.

So yeah, I would stop analyzing and start building links!

-Brock

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christiehemme

15 years ago

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Lares 15 years ago

2 of my websites are back too. Better than before. Few more to go.
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razorhound

15 years ago

Noticed some movements, 7 sites back from sandbox (page50+) and 1 is gone. Anyone else?

Bryan

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bummed.out

15 years ago

One site bounced back to where it was, thank goodness! The others are still at the lower positions.

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Chris Sweeney 15 years ago

Yup, several of mine are on their way back up too.
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vij

15 years ago

Hint of returns. Nothing major yet.

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Michael R.

15 years ago

OK, read through the whole thread, took some time

Bottom line is, nobody knows why his/her site lost rankings. It doesn't matter if you have good or bad content, good or bad on-page SEO and what your backlink scheme looks like.

For everyone who has a background in computer science, think about that:
You have an algorithm that looks at a huge network of websites and tries to rank these websites for a lot of different keywords. This algorithm will obviously need to store a lot of data. Now you change this algorithm and the way it valuates websites. Do you think the new data that is needed to compute the new valuation can be collected in a few minutes or hours? No, I don't think so. Keep in mind that to evaluate a single site, you also need to look at the valuation of all sites that link to that site. And at all sites that link to these sites and so on.

So what will happen is that the algorithm shuffles all websites around without a visible pattern until it revaluated all sites in the network. Only after the revaluation of all sites, you will be able to see the real results of the algorithm update.

What do you think?

Maybe it's only what I WANT to think because my main money site dropped from #1 to page 3 to page 5 for many keywords.

Thanks
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kindsvater

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Michael R.

Bottom line is, nobody knows why his/her site lost rankings. It doesn't matter if you have good or bad content, good or bad on-page SEO and what your backlink scheme looks like.

For everyone who has a background in computer science, think about that:
You have an algorithm that looks at a huge network of websites and tries to rank these websites for a lot of different keywords. This algorithm will obviously need to store a lot of data. Now you change this algorithm and the way it valuates websites. Do you think the new data that is needed to compute the new valuation can be collected in a few minutes or hours? No, I don't think so. Keep in mind that to evaluate a single site, you also need to look at the valuation of all sites that link to that site. And at all sites that link to these sites and so on.

So what will happen is that the algorithm shuffles all websites around without a visible pattern until it revaluated all sites in the network. Only after the revaluation of all sites, you will be able to see the real results of the algorithm update.

What do you think?

I think you're not giving webmasters, or Google, nearly enough credit.

I know exactly why certain of my pages dropped and there is no need to wait for some algorithmic re-ranking and new search valuation to try and figure this out.

Google has already said Panda is manually run. It is not part of what you are discussing - the regular algorithm which results in continuous changes in the search criteria.

So if your web pages were hit in a Panda update, you need to change the pages to fix the problem, hope those changes are seen by Google before the next Panda update, and then wait.

From what I have seen Google is able to compute a lot faster than what you "think" its computers can handle.

Obviously there is a "pattern" and not some random reshuffling that occurred. Those are not random results at the top of the search listings.

And yes, I have the computer degree.

.

Thanks
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mrtrance

15 years ago

Originally Posted by kindsvater

I think you're not giving webmasters, or Google, nearly enough credit.

I know exactly why certain of my pages dropped and there is no need to wait for some algorithmic re-ranking and new search valuation to try and figure this out.

Google has already said Panda is manually run. It is not part of what you are discussing - the regular algorithm which results in continuous changes in the search criteria.

So if your web pages were hit in a Panda update, you need to change the pages to fix the problem, hope those changes are seen by Google before the next Panda update, and then wait.

From what I have seen Google is able to compute a lot faster than what you "think" its computers can handle.

Obviously there is a "pattern" and not some random reshuffling that occurred. Those are not random results at the top of the search listings.

And yes, I have the computer degree.

.

So what sort of changes do you recommend? It just seems just about very type of website content and those with all types of backlinks got hit. No one size fits all here.

I compared 3 sites of mine with same theme,setup, 1 adsense block, same backlink strategy, etc. and site #1 has 8 posts, Site #2 9 posts and Site#3 12 posts in 3 different niches. The only real difference can be that Sites #1 and #2 had some wiki .edu backlinks and #3 didn't. After the update site #1 went from position 6 to position 11 (page 2), site #2 stayed at it's position 4th spot, and site #3 went from position 2 to position 8. And add to the mix a site that has different theme, but only 1 post on the hompage and just had some simple backlinks like comments,profile links (nothing new in the last 4-6 months), etc. moved up from position 9 to postion 5.

So based on that how can we tell what needs to be fixed?

I've noticed nothing has changed in the past week in the SERPs not only for my sites that dropped or a few that moved up, but the SERPs are exactly the same for the last week. Nobody seems to be moving at all in either direction.

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Conjur

15 years ago

Originally Posted by kindsvater

I think you're not giving webmasters, or Google, nearly enough credit.

I know exactly why certain of my pages dropped and there is no need to wait for some algorithmic re-ranking and new search valuation to try and figure this out.

Google has already said Panda is manually run. It is not part of what you are discussing - the regular algorithm which results in continuous changes in the search criteria.

So if your web pages were hit in a Panda update, you need to change the pages to fix the problem, hope those changes are seen by Google before the next Panda update, and then wait.

From what I have seen Google is able to compute a lot faster than what you "think" its computers can handle.

Obviously there is a "pattern" and not some random reshuffling that occurred. Those are not random results at the top of the search listings.

And yes, I have the computer degree.

.

It is not quite as simplistic as that. For example, some of my pages were on page 1 and getting lots of traffic from a broad assortment of keywords. Some of these are still on page one (for their targeted keyword) and still getting traffic for that keyword, but getting no traffic for the broad range of related keywords they benefited from before. So what change would you suggest in those circumstances?

Also, the pages that now rank 1 for those keywords (where I've checked) range in quality from good to completely appalling!

One example, for a fairly competitive keyword, is that the number 1 result is now a Squidoo page, very poorly put together and a clear affiliate page. But the sales link on the page is to an expired domain?? The owner had probably given up and now has no idea he is losing sales.

This is just one example, but if this is the quality result Google was aiming for then they have totally messed up this latest update.

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ttomp13

15 years ago

Hey, guys.

I don't know if you're interested, but I just wrote a post about Google Panda 2.5.2, and
I figure a lot of people who are stressed out about what they will do next can benefit from
reading my article.

Feel free to check it out, and provide Facebook Comment below the article.

Google Panda 2.5.2: What Now? Who Moved My Cheese?

Thanks
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OmarNegron

15 years ago

Originally Posted by ttomp13

Hey, guys.

I don't know if you're interested, but I just wrote a post about Google Panda 2.5.2, and
I figure a lot of people who are stressed out about what they will do next can benefit from
reading my article.

Feel free to check it out, and provide Facebook Comment below the article.

Google Panda 2.5.2: What Now? Who Moved My Cheese?

Cool post man. I enjoyed it.

=-)

Thanks
1 reply

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ttomp13 15 years ago

Originally Posted by OmarNegron

Cool post man. I enjoyed it.

=-)

Cool, man. Thanks.

If you guys like the post, share the love with Facebook and other 2.0's.

I just added you on Facebook by the way.
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optimalinks 15 years ago

Thanks ttomp13 for the post; and the reminder to find and keep finding new sources of cheese.
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Conjur

15 years ago

My site was hit quite badly on the 14th and has not recovered. It's almost 2 years old, and has over 500 pages of what I consider to be high-quality content. I hadn't done any aggressive link building, but had still accumulated a reasonable number of back links, mainly to internal pages, each of which was optimized for a particular key word.

As a result, the traffic I had been getting from Google was based on quite a diverse range of keywords. Take a look at the exact impact and draw your own conclusions:

Date / Visits / Keywords
Sep 28 / 369 / 283
Oct 5 / 349 / 265
Oct 12 / 417 / 306
Oct 19 / 55 / 49

Pretty grim. Clearly (or that's how I see it) Google has suddenly decided to send many of the long tail key words to other sites. Also, my rankings for those key words that I was actually targeting is jumping around quite a bit, relegating me to page 2 or worse from page 1.

So I consider the hit I have encountered to be both on the long tail key words and my specific targeted key words. Not sure how I'm going to react to this and recover, but I though the above statistics would be useful for people to think about as they figure out what is happening!

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rimam1

15 years ago

Michael R.

That's a pretty sophisticated analysis. Not sure if it's correct or not, but it's worth considering. I would think that Google would have done all of that re-valuating before rolling this change out, but maybe not. The best thing to do is to stay calm, watch what's happening, create a good user experience, and rely less on Google.

Raza

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Chris Sweeney

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Michael R.

OK, read through the whole thread, took some time

Bottom line is, nobody knows why his/her site lost rankings. It doesn't matter if you have good or bad content, good or bad on-page SEO and what your backlink scheme looks like.

For everyone who has a background in computer science, think about that:
You have an algorithm that looks at a huge network of websites and tries to rank these websites for a lot of different keywords. This algorithm will obviously need to store a lot of data. Now you change this algorithm and the way it valuates websites. Do you think the new data that is needed to compute the new valuation can be collected in a few minutes or hours? No, I don't think so. Keep in mind that to evaluate a single site, you also need to look at the valuation of all sites that link to that site. And at all sites that link to these sites and so on.

So what will happen is that the algorithm shuffles all websites around without a visible pattern until it revaluated all sites in the network. Only after the revaluation of all sites, you will be able to see the real results of the algorithm update.

What do you think?

Maybe it's only what I WANT to think because my main money site dropped from #1 to page 3 to page 5 for many keywords.

I totally agree with you that Google needs to "re-evaluate", or re-crawl, all the sites on the web. Once a major algorithm update is put into play, the dust and rankings will bounce around and will not settle until the web is fully re-crawled, not just once, but 2 or 3 times (or even many more), in order for all the juice to be re-allocated according to the new factors of the algo.

Why does it need to be re-crawled 2 or 3 (or even more) times instead of just once?

Well let's use an analogy. If anyone is familiar with tuning a guitar, you will know it's always good to tune it twice, or even 3 times. The reason is this. You start by tuning the first string and work your way all the way down to the last string. By the time you get to that last string, though, the first string may have come a bit out of tune since you adjusted 5 other strings since that first one. Tuning those 5 other strings would change the tension on the neck of the guitar, in turn changing the pitch of that first string. So then you need to go back and re-tune that first string again, and all the rest as well, until the tiny adjustments that you're making by tuning certain strings barely changes the tension in the neck and therefore barely changes the pitch.

Google is much the same with their algorithm during major updates (or even all the time). Let's say Google starts crawling at site A and finishes at site Z. Site A's value of juice affects site B, which affects site C, etc. etc. etc. However, if site Z links to A, Google doesn't know that at first until it gets to site Z, and then crawls back over to site A (which now has additional juice from the link from site Z), which then shoots a little more juice to site B, then a little more from B to C, etc. etc. etc. Once it gets to Z again, if it doesn't find any additional links, there's no need for Google to allocate any more juice (sure, it may crawl the link, but it already applied the juice, so it doesn't need to do that more than once or twice [which, by the way, is why link wheels don't continuously flow large increasing amounts of juice through the wheel]). In other words, once Google doesn't find any more new links into any of those sites, then the rankings will be much more steady. Make sense?

Sorry, I hope I didn't confuse the crap out of a bunch of people, but hopefully some of you understand what I'm saying. It's kind of hard to put into words without using visuals.

Thanks

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mrtrance

15 years ago

Two of my Adsense niche sites that were at #2 spots and sitting now at #8 have not budged at all. I hoping for some movement on these sites soon since they have a diverse backlink profile and have good unique content. I've started getting some edu backlinks to these 2 sites to see if I can build some authority links and if that will move it back up.

It's just frustrating not being able to do something to get sites to move again. I hate these big drops which move sites from top of page 1 to bottom of page 1 or page 2. A few spots OK, but there is no way that the other 7 sites in front of me did as much backlinks or added content.

Are you guys continuing with your regular backlink strategy right now for sights that got hit?

Thanks
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TheFBGuy 15 years ago

Originally Posted by mrtrance

Are you guys continuing with your regular backlink strategy right now for sights that got hit?

Me, I am just observing them for now, while focusing on sites that moved up or remained unmoved by this update.
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JimmyR

15 years ago

Damn you guys are seeing the upward movement/correction that I was hoping for. Instead, mine main site actually dropped a second time! They were slowly improving after the Oct 14 hit, but now even worse. I can't for the life of me work out what's different with this site than the others.

I have a big feeling most of this is related to external links though. I am in the middle of some tests which I hope are conclusive...

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ttkim

15 years ago

I guess I'll also give updates on two sites. Maybe we can gather some information or see a trend.

I created one affiliate site about 3 months ago. It used to be as high as #3 before getting hit by the -50 filter. Soon after that, it disappeared from the SERPs but it was still indexed. I'm assuming it was a penalty for unnatural backlinks (tried out a bunch of WF services and most were disappointing). In any case, two months later (aka today), it came back ranked at #8. I'm assuming this is because of the most recent Panda update, but I'm not entirely sure since I did make some changes to my sites two days ago.

Rather than simply nofollowing the affiliate links, I created a PHP redirect that takes them to Amazon. I nofollowed that and also used robots.txt to prevent that folder from being crawled. I'm not sure if this is why I came back in rankings or if it's just the recent update. The interesting part is my inner pages. I'm ranked #8 for my homepage and behind 7 other affiliate sites. However, I am ranked #1-5 for most of my inner pages when I google "product keyword". I'm almost always ahead of my competitors. If I'm not first, it's usually Amazon or some other sites that are ahead of me so I'm assuming these other affiliate sites definitely got slapped for their inner pages. I have 14 product reviews that are 1000+ words with pictures and videos. I also have 6 other informational posts.

As for my second site, which I created about 1.5 months ago, it finally hit page 1 two days ago. In other words, it improved during the initial stages of the update. However, it disappeared from the SERP completely yesterday only to come back today at #10. This is a crappy affiliate site with 700-word reviews. I have nothing but reviews on this site, and each review has 1 photo. I also simply nofollowed the affiliate links rather than redirecting them.

Thanks

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Stevie G

15 years ago

From what I have seen all the sites that have been slapped seem to meet the two following criteria:

1) Google knows they are linked (either through adsense or analytics)
2) They have similar backlinking profiles (in y case they were all using mainly BMR).

Perhaps google have just looked at these factors to identify people who are obviously backlinking thier own sites.

Any thoughts on this?

Thanks

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dudeshane01

15 years ago

My pages climbed the SE ladder last week.
A lot of them were dancing crazy and have returned to gain some positions now.

Thanks
1 reply

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neil_patmore

15 years ago

2 of my sites were negatively affected on October 13. One has a couple of pages still ranking high with others on pages 9 and 10. The other tanked big time, position 500, 900 and nowhere to been seen Traffic dropped from 2500 unique visits per day to around 200. Earnings dropped the same percentage. Site still ranks #1 on Bing and Yahoo.

There were some 400 and 500 errors which I've fixed up but I think the big thing is the affiliate links and the redirects and here's why:

I was lucky enough to get a copy of the Google Raters Guide from PotPieGirl's site before Google politely asked her to remove the link. It's full of gems for what Google is looking for in a site, but the most worrying part of the 125 page document is in the Part 4: Webspam Guidelines.

In it there is a disturbing statement that simply says:

"If a page exists only to make money, the page is spam."

So who cares if your site is full of quality articles? Who cares if your on-page SEO is 100%? Who cares what your backlink profile looks like.

If you put up a site full of quality articles with the sole intention of making money, you are a target. This isn't what Google wants, no matter how quality your lovely little articles are.

When Google says the site should be for users this is what it means, the first objective of the site should not be to make money.

Or at least it shouldn't appear to be :-)

Secondly, I believe redirects are playing a big part:

Section 3.3 of the Webspam section talks about the 'Sneaky Redirects'

"We call it a sneaky redirect when a page redirects the user from a URL on one domain to a different URL on a different domain, with spam intent." - Remember, making money is spam.

"Some sneaky redirects take users to well-known merchant websites, such as Amazon, eBay, Zappos, etc." In my case, this is BINGO. As I'm sure it is with many of you.

The problem is, I only use a 'sneaky redirect' so that I can send US visitors to Amazon.com and UK visitors to Amazon.co.uk, enhancing the users' experience. If this indeed is part of why I've been penalized I'll be forced to choose one over the other and with a site that ranks (sorry, ranked) high in the UK and US Google, this is going to be counterproductive and result in a worse user experience. Go Google!

I've made many changes to the site including removing half of the affiliate links, solving the errors, adding more video, reducing site wide internal linking and adding more authority external linking. Overall, I've made the affiliate links less obtrusive to give a general feeling of a site that isn't there to make money.

We'll see what happens next but for now, as per that great 'Who Moved my Cheese' video posted by ttomp13, I'm going back to my Xcode and NimbleKit coding, Google can play football on his own but I'll leave you with this once again:

"If a page exists only to make money, the page is spam."

"If a page exists only to make money, the page is spam."

"If a page exists only to make money, the page is spam."

Thanks
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rinor81

15 years ago

Originally Posted by neil_patmore

2 of my sites were negatively affected on October 13. One has a couple of pages still ranking high with others on pages 9 and 10. The other tanked big time, position 500, 900 and nowhere to been seen Traffic dropped from 2500 unique visits per day to around 200. Earnings dropped the same percentage. Site still ranks #1 on Bing and Yahoo.

There were some 400 and 500 errors which I've fixed up but I think the big thing is the affiliate links and the redirects and here's why:

I was lucky enough to get a copy of the Google Raters Guide from PotPieGirl's site before Google politely asked her to remove the link. It's full of gems for what Google is looking for in a site, but the most worrying part of the 125 page document is in the Part 4: Webspam Guidelines.

In it there is a disturbing statement that simply says:

"If a page exists only to make money, the page is spam."

So who cares if your site is full of quality articles? Who cares if your on-page SEO is 100%? Who cares what your backlink profile looks like.

If you put up a site full of quality articles with the sole intention of making money, you are a target. This isn't what Google wants, no matter how quality your lovely little articles are.

When Google says the site should be for users this is what it means, the first objective of the site should not be to make money.

Or at least it shouldn't appear to be :-)

Secondly, I believe redirects are playing a big part:

Section 3.3 of the Webspam section talks about the 'Sneaky Redirects'

"We call it a sneaky redirect when a page redirects the user from a URL on one domain to a different URL on a different domain, with spam intent." - Remember, making money is spam.

"Some sneaky redirects take users to well-known merchant websites, such as Amazon, eBay, Zappos, etc." In my case, this is BINGO. As I'm sure it is with many of you.

The problem is, I only use a 'sneaky redirect' so that I can send US visitors to Amazon.com and UK visitors to Amazon.co.uk, enhancing the users' experience. If this indeed is part of why I've been penalized I'll be forced to choose one over the other and with a site that ranks (sorry, ranked) high in the UK and US Google, this is going to be counterproductive and result in a worse user experience. Go Google!

I've made many changes to the site including removing half of the affiliate links, solving the errors, adding more video, reducing site wide internal linking and adding more authority external linking. Overall, I've made the affiliate links less obtrusive to give a general feeling of a site that isn't there to make money.

We'll see what happens next but for now, as per that great 'Who Moved my Cheese' video posted by ttomp13, I'm going back to my Xcode and NimbleKit coding, Google can play football on his own but I'll leave you with this once again:

"If a page exists only to make money, the page is spam."

"If a page exists only to make money, the page is spam."

"If a page exists only to make money, the page is spam."

Thank you for your post!

From my experience, I have only 4 sites that I SEO now and target keywords to, 3 of them stayed as they were and only 1 was hit...thinking about it, the site has affiliate links which are not cloaked and I guess visible to Google so I'll fix that....see if it helps and add from each page a link to an authority site so it won't look as if I'm trying to make money....great post.

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Mike Anthony

15 years ago

Originally Posted by neil_patmore

In it there is a disturbing statement that simply says:

"If a page exists only to make money, the page is spam."

Neil I think you might be over focusing on that line rather than the whole thing. Later on it indicates that neither affiliate links or the presence of PPC by itself marks the site as spam. The key word there is ONLY.

Still there is no doubt about it now. Google is definitely after MFAs. They want sites that have content aimed at helping the user to have adsense ads. If the page is not very helpful and has adsense ads their instruction to their raters is pretty much to mark as spam so they can deep six them.

If you own MFAs you would be best advised to widen your strategy.

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rinor81

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Neil I think you might be over focusing on that line rather than the whole thing. Later on it indicates that neither affiliate links or the presence of PPC by itself marks the site as spam. The key word there is ONLY.

Still there is no doubt about it now. Google is definitely after MFAs. They want sites that have content aimed at helping the user to have adsense ads. If the page is not very helpful and has adsense ads their instruction to their raters is pretty much to mark as spam so they can deep six them.

If you own MFAs you would be best advised to widen your strategy.

I don't get it.

Google approves AdSense and makes money from it as well but if you have it on your site then it's bad and you'll get downgraded? Doesn't it contradict one another?

Also, what does MFA stand for please?

Thanks,

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MarathonMan

15 years ago

Originally Posted by rinor81

I don't get it.

Google approves AdSense and makes money from it as well but if you have it on your site then it's bad and you'll get downgraded? Doesn't it contradict one another?

Also, what does MFA stand for please?

Thanks,

Google's Adsense and Content Quality divisions don't exactly have the same goals in mind. I just got an email from Adsense this morning telling me to add more ads to one of my Panda-hit sites.

Thanks

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razorhound

15 years ago

Originally Posted by rinor81

I don't get it.

Google approves AdSense and makes money from it as well but if you have it on your site then it's bad and you'll get downgraded? Doesn't it contradict one another?

Also, what does MFA stand for please?

Thanks,

MFA = Made for Adsense

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Zeb

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Neil I think you might be over focusing on that line rather than the whole thing. Later on it indicates that neither affiliate links or the presence of PPC by itself marks the site as spam. The key word there is ONLY.

Still there is no doubt about it now. Google is definitely after MFAs. They want sites that have content aimed at helping the user to have adsense ads. If the page is not very helpful and has adsense ads their instruction to their raters is pretty much to mark as spam so they can deep six them.

If you own MFAs you would be best advised to widen your strategy.

Was just about to mention that Mike. It is no way that monetizing your sites is considered spam.

One tip for MFA sites that i read in the document is that google asks it's evaluators to see if you take away adsense ads on a page, does the article help it's readers? does it answer the readers questions? from this statement, we can conclude that google is emphasizing on quality content, as it always has.

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Zeb

15 years ago

Originally Posted by peterjamesmorris

Google's own 2011 guidelines that they use to train their manual raters in order to look for spam got leaked. Download here:

http://www.warriorforum.com/adsense-...uidelines.html

It's pretty clear about what Google does and doesn't see as spam. If you want it, get it quick - its been taking down from a lot of places because of complaints from Google.

Yes i had read it yesterday and my point sticks.

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Zeb

15 years ago

Originally Posted by peterjamesmorris

I was agreeing with you, not disagreeing with you. What you were saying is correct and it's in Google's literature for everyone to see.

I was trying to back you up (and help everyone else out by posting some useful information). I didn't say anything about disagreeing with you at all!

geez

I wasn't implying any ill manner to your post anyways. Just mentioned that i had read it and my previous point is still the same. No harm intended. Relax mate.

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GlobalTrader 15 years ago

Originally Posted by neil_patmore

In it there is a disturbing statement that simply says:

"If a page exists only to make money, the page is spam."

Let me get this straight? If a page exists only to make money, but you are willing to pay the big G to place it into their adwords system they will then elevate it to the status of approved spam??
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seocatalysts

15 years ago

Many are affected badly while some of getting recovery in traffic drop....

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Bryan V

15 years ago

Some sites of mine are back from the grave (rank 400-500) and some took the places of those in the grave.

Some sites I did heavy linking to recently, seems to just have rolled back to where it was 1-2 months ago.

Off to find some new cheese!

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roynetwork7

15 years ago

I was influenced by the latest panda. my site got promoted to position 4 in the search results from position 7 and that because im doing only white hat SEO.

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MarathonMan

15 years ago

For those wondering about backlinks:

I have NEVER created a single artificial backlink for any of my sites - least of all comment, blog, and crappy forum links. The reason behind this is that i know Google is smart, and it seems beyond stupid to think you can game the SERPs with 50,000 auto-generated crap links.

My sites all generate organic links on their own, and enjoyed excellent SERP positions for ages.

However, several of my sites were hit, and hard by Panda 2.5.2. One site that was hit shares the same layout type, bounce rate, time on site, and even a similar topic to one that wasn't hit at all (and actually gained).

Thanks
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bmoney76

15 years ago

Originally Posted by MarathonMan

For those wondering about backlinks:

I have NEVER created a single artificial backlink for any of my sites - least of all comment, blog, and crappy forum links. The reason behind this is that i know Google is smart, and it seems beyond stupid to think you can game the SERPs with 50,000 auto-generated crap links.

My sites all generate organic links on their own, and enjoyed excellent SERP positions for ages.

However, several of my sites were hit, and hard by Panda 2.5.2. One site that was hit shares the same layout type, bounce rate, time on site, and even a similar topic to one that wasn't hit at all (and actually gained).

I've done a little analysis of some of the more commercial queries where I dropped and from what I can tell the sites that seem to be benefiting the most from this update are very thin in terms of content but most do have a lot of backlinks (most not quality). I even found one site that was ranking for a real good commercial keyword that was a splog, setup strictly for link juice to other sites. Seriously terrible site. The articles are totally unrelated to each other.

Hard to really say at this point but I can't think this update is finished. I could provide examples of queries but from the comments here and on other boards most others are seeing the same thing.

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ttomp13 15 years ago

What you can learn from Charlie Sheen.

"One Speed, One Gear, Go!"

Charlie Sheen Parody - Bi-Winning (Official Song)...
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neil_patmore

15 years ago

I totally agree Mike / Zeb. I wasn't suggesting that by monetizing a site you are spamming in Google's eyes.

But what I am suggesting is that there is a difference between monetizing your great blog and creating a great blog to monetize. If Google thinks you have created the blog soley to monetize and make money then you are a target, no matter how great it is.

This is what I'll be focusing on in future, creating a great blog to monetize, but giving the appearance that I've monetized a great blog. Confused? So am I :-) ...

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Michael R.

15 years ago

Obviously there is a "pattern" and not some random reshuffling that occurred. Those are not random results at the top of the search listings.

If you see a pattern, you're more than welcome to share it.

From what I have read in this thread, the update affected a lot of different types of sites. Some thin sites were hit, some authority sites were hit, some with good content, some with bad content, some with many good links, some with few poor links, and so on and so on.

When I look at the only one of my sites that lost rankings, I can also see different things that could be a reason. But then again I see sites at the top of the rankings that are much, much worse than my site.

The thing about the shuffled rankings during re-evaluation of sites was just an attempt to explain something that looks like randomness to me. It can be totally different, of course.

I didn't want to say that Google doesn't know what they are doing or have limited computing power.

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rinor81

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Michael R.

If you see a pattern, you're more than welcome to share it.

From what I have read in this thread, the update affected a lot of different types of sites. Some thin sites were hit, some authority sites were hit, some with good content, some with bad content, some with many good links, some with few poor links, and so on and so on.

When I look at the only one of my sites that lost rankings, I can also see different things that could be a reason. But then again I see sites at the top of the rankings that are much, much worse than my site.

The thing about the shuffled rankings during re-evaluation of sites was just an attempt to explain something that looks like randomness to me. It can be totally different, of course.

I didn't want to say that Google doesn't know what they are doing or have limited computing power.

I agree 100%

One of my sites got hit while other didn't and I use the same backlinking strategy and all look a like give or take...also, see authority sites on the niche I got hit on, just because they are big sites and stores....and here and there sites worse than mine above my pages which got hit....so how is this a good update when there is nothing clear here?

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PicktownChris

15 years ago

So where is the new cheese? haha!

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ttomp13

15 years ago

Originally Posted by PicktownChris

So where is the new cheese? haha!

You have to find it... But for me, the new cheese is Youtube, Aweber, and
Facebook.

Youtube - Some of my videos have 100,000+ views. Why not take advantage
of this, and create more videos?

Aweber - I have been blogging for 3 years, and I have just now started
capturing email subscribers. I should have began building a list a long time ago.

Facebook - Communicate with your readers, and allow them to share your
content with their friends.

The 3 things above alone are enough to run a business --- you don't even
have to have a blog.

1. Create Youtube videos.
2. Send the Youtube viewers to a squezee page.
3. Capture emails.
4. Communicate with your list.

You don't even have to blog to make money, folks. I think a lot of people
see written content as the only way of making money online. You could make
videos on Youtube, work on Aweber, and communicate on Facebook, and
build a million dollar empire.

Anyway, this is what I am going to do for my new cheese. I say this, because
I know a lot of people here are too lazy / shy / scared to make videos on
topics --- Mainly, because they don't know enough about the topic to cover
it on video.

Well, I wish you all the best. Like I said, there is new cheese out there. If
Internet Marketing isn't for you, you could always try real estate --- I have
been looking into tax liens, myself.

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peterlaz

15 years ago

You tube as new cheese? The days are numbered. Don't forget that youtube is owned by Google.

First they chased away the affiliates from Adwords, than natural search. Next is Youtube. Google has already made statement to that effect. The cleanup is about to start.

When Amazon pages rank above affiliate pages, the writing on the wall is clear. Get a full time job!

What took me four years to build is now down in the train.

Thanks
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rinor81

15 years ago

Originally Posted by peterlaz

You tube as new cheese? The days are numbered. Don't forget that youtube is owned by Google.

First they chased away the affiliates from Adwords, than natural search. Next is Youtube. Google has already made statement to that effect. The cleanup is about to start.

When Amazon pages rank above affiliate pages, the writing on the wall is clear. Get a full time job!

What took me four years to build is now down in the train.

That' kind of sad what you're saying here and I'm sorry to hear that....but you don't think there will be new ways to get the sites back or work at internet marketing?

I don't think SEO companies will close or people here will give up, people will look for new ways and other paths to push their sites and business higher...this is the world of internet marketing, it's never really gone but always changes from time to time...you really see all the people here stop doing what they're doing? No!

And that should give you strength to keep on, follow the forum and see how people succeed at other ways for you to try too.

Good Luck.

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ttomp13 15 years ago

I'm sorry that you're upset, but Youtube and Email Marketing is extremely
effective. In fact, Youtube is the WHOLE reason the first site I ever made
actually made money.

Youtube -

Some of my old videos, (which I regrettably deleted) had 500,000+
unique views on Youtube. I was making $5 - $10 a day with AdSense, all by
sending traffic to my blog with Youtube, and all by promoting 1 product on
my blog.

You say Google is going to target Youtube next? I am not sure where you
received this information, but if it's true, Google is targeting the SPAM on
Youtube; Not videos with quality content.

You're probably thinking; "But Panda hit tons of sites with quality content."
The difference is, Youtube has a rating system. You seriously think Google
is going to remove or de-rank videos that have good ratings?

Furthermore, some videos, like Rebecca Black - Friday have really really
bad ratings, but the video is still entertainment for many. You think Google
is seriously going to remove these videos? No...

Google, if you're right on the targeting Youtube deal, is looking to remove
5 second videos that say, "Click the link in the description," and other spam-
type videos... But I just want to say that I haven't heard anything about
Google targeting Youtube. If people have been hit, it's because they're
doing something against Youtube's guidelines.

Example Video I Made: How to use Proactiv Part1 HD - YouTube

Email Marketing -

It's dead? Are you kidding me? My friend just sent out an email to his
subscriber list of 1,700 and made $250. Email Marketing is the only
guaranteed way that you will always have someone to sell to.

If people are complaining about low open rates, then they're not doing it right.

1. You have to tell people when you're going to send out emails.
2. You have to send the emails when you say you're going to.
3. You have to respond to all subscriber questions.
4. You have to provide a reason for opening the email.

Example Site That Would Have High Open Rate: Fit 2 Fat 2 Fit

PS: I sent John Chow an email a few weeks back asking him if email marketing
was dead, and he said, "No." I asked him because like yourself, I was told by
my up-line Beach Body Coach that email marketing was dead... Fact is, email
marketing just wasn't working for my up-line coach.
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Bryan V

15 years ago

Originally Posted by peterlaz

When Amazon pages rank above affiliate pages, the writing on the wall is clear. Get a full time job!

What took me four years to build is now down in the train.

Doom and gloom indeed.

There have always been plenty of Amazon pages that rank higher than affiliate pages.

And renouncing all types of ways to generate income and traffic because your site took a hit? If it was anything worth saving, I would do everything I could to get the rankings back for my FOUR YEARS of work.

After continuing building links to my sites, many are back to original positions and many are ranking better than before. Some took a major hit, but I'll also get them back up or just replace them with something better.

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PicktownChris

15 years ago

So where is the new cheese? haha!

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boxoun

15 years ago

Google tweaked and I saw some recovery but not full. Haven't done anything new since 14th. Still loss of long tail.

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peterlaz

15 years ago

email marketing is no longer effective in the days of social media. It used to work for specific niches but not for physical products. In any case the rate of emails being opened has dropped recently.

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peterlaz

15 years ago

peterjamesmorris

Thanks for the link. Got a copy of the guidelines.

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Andy Hart

15 years ago

WOW so much doom and gloom in this thread, we might as well just pack up and go home

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TheFBGuy

15 years ago

A few tweaks here and there and a change in my linkbuilding and on-page strategy, my sites and pages are beginning to shoot up in the rankings. Come on people, stop wasting time waiting for things to "go back to normal", lol. And if you want to quiet, go right ahead.

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Websitemaker 15 years ago

TheFBGuy, can you please tell us some more about that few tweaks ? :confused:
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ttomp13

15 years ago

Originally Posted by TheFBGuy

A few tweaks here and there and a change in my linkbuilding and on-page strategy, my sites and pages are beginning to shoot up in the rankings. Come on people, stop wasting time waiting for things to "go back to normal", lol. And if you want to quiet, go right ahead.

Hey TheFBGuy,

I 100% believe that there is a way to gain Google Rankings back, as DaniWeb
and many other sites have been able to do so in the past.

If you have developed a strategy or maybe a step-by-step plan for getting
rankings to shoot back up, you should share that strategy with us.

At the least, you should post the strategy on your blog so it will go viral, and
you can get the benefits of getting new, quality backlinks.

We're all interested in your strategy, and at this point, any information will
be beneficial.

Thanks
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TheFBGuy

15 years ago

ttomp13 and Websitemaker: can't say for sure if this is the newest Panda antidote, lol. I am thinking about creating a PDF, and if I do so, I will share it here for free, so stay tuned.

... and by shooting, I am talking about jumping multiple pages and fast, well, jumps such as from page 4 to page 2 in just over 24 hours, and this was with a .INFO domain as well as others. Been testing this since Monday. No hype, no BS or anything to sell. Anyway stay tuned.

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mrtrance

15 years ago

Originally Posted by TheFBGuy

ttomp13 and Websitemaker: can't say for sure if this is the newest Panda antidote, lol. I am thinking about creating a PDF, and if I do so, I will share it here for free, so stay tuned.

... and by shooting, I am talking about jumping multiple pages and fast, well, jumps such as from page 4 to page 2 in just over 24 hours, and this was with a .INFO domain as well as others. Been testing this since Monday. No hype, no BS or anything to sell. Anyway stay tuned.

Any new news or update for us on how your sites recovered from the Panda update?

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gtk29

15 years ago

@TheFBGuy Do not torture us and tell us the strategy which made you circumvent latest Panda update

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Michael R.

15 years ago

A few tweaks here and there and a change in my link building and on-page strategy, my sites and pages are beginning to shoot up in the rankings. Come on people, stop wasting time waiting for things to "go back to normal", lol.

I'm also trying to tweak the pages that dropped. A bit difficult without knowing why they dropped in the first place. Moreover I have about 100 inner pages that ranked at the top of the first page for their keywords. So a lot of work.

I think the pages are already well optimized, so I only added some content here and there, nofollow'd a few links and added some links to authority sites. In addition to that, I optimized the page load speed of some pages and started to build more and more diverse links.

But I don't really see any effects, yet.

Here a very "motivating" screenshot from Traffic Travis for the rankings of 20 of these keywords. Seems like the software doesn't have enough colors to display more than 12 different keywords

.

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sovereignn

15 years ago

My rankings have all gone back up in the past three days

I haven't published any new articles or any new backlinks

today was actually my most profitable day yet

Also I use blog networks for backlinking so those who say they got hit, it doesn't seem so

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Conjur

15 years ago

Originally Posted by sovereignn

My rankings have all gone back up in the past three days

I haven't published any new articles or any new backlinks

today was actually my most profitable day yet

Also I use blog networks for backlinking so those who say they got hit, it doesn't seem so

It is good to hear that some people are moving back up - my traffic is still way down, and I'm reticent to start changing things until there is a clearer picture of why this is happening.

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Thinking_man_too

15 years ago

I had one of my top 4 sites trashed. site was 1.5 years old. several hundred pages of original content. There were 50 -100 first page long tail keywords and regular keywords. about 75% dropped in ranking by 50 places or more.

I have started going page by page and making changes. What I have seen:

1) if a page had more then one or 2 affiliate links or links to amazon it got trashed. So as I rewrite pages I cut it down to one sale related link. (For example if I have a page on the top 10 wordpress plugins and 4 of those are plugins you buy, yes I had my affiliate link in there. Now I remove the entire link from all but the best one. People will have to go find the link themselves if they want it. It is a bit of a diss-service to the reader but if I leave the link in, even without my affiliate link, I believe google will see it as a link to a sale page and slam the article).

2) Pages that had been ranked high but had no backlinks (yes I had many keywords on the first page with no backlinks. The site was somewhat of an authority site and all it used to take was original content and great on page seo) were hit hardest. i will get to backlinking those later.

3) right now I am making minor changes and reposting and resubmitting to social bookmarking sites. That has gotten a lot of the pages moving back up.

I disagree with sitting on my hands and waiting to see what happens next.

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TheFBGuy 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Thinking_man_too

I disagree with sitting on my hands and waiting to see what happens next.

Lol, that's the spirit.
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boxoun

15 years ago

As stated before, my keywords are back at one but still no sign of ling tail traffic. Any theories as to how I can fix?

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ZypreX

Banned 15 years ago

[DELETED]

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ttomp13

15 years ago

Originally Posted by ZypreX

I think that if you keep your content good and have quality backlinks you will be fine with the google panda update.

I want to say that I agree with you, but earlier in this thread, a Warrior pointed
out the website Metformin Side Effects dot Org. If you look at the search
results, you will see that this site definitely does NOT have quality content
compared to other sites.

Also, if you look at the websites backlink profile, you will see that these links
are artificially obtained.

The good news is that this website was in the #1 spot for the past few days,
and at this very minute, it is in the #3 spot. This tells me that Google is still
making some changes, or that the changes are not fully established around
the web.

Hopefully, this website drops of the rankings completely. Unfortunately,
Google has trouble devaluing sites that are using home page backlinks on
Class C IP addresses. If Google could devalue these links, then the organic
results would be vastly improved.

At the end of the day, if you don't artificially generate backlinks, and you do
continue providing good content to your readers, you will eventually win. At
least, that's what Matt Cutts, myself, and others would hope for.

Quite frankly, I wish SEO didn't exist. If there was a way to have the search
engines literally pick out the best content and display it in first place, the
results would be vastly improved.

Thanks
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vij

15 years ago

Originally Posted by ttomp13

Quite frankly, I wish SEO didn't exist. If there was a way to have the search
engines literally pick out the best content and display it in first place, the
results would be vastly improved.

That would be a lottery. Only 10 of the great 1,000 websites in your niche will make it, and that wouldn't be you even with a great site :p

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Bryan V

15 years ago

Originally Posted by ttomp13

Quite frankly, I wish SEO didn't exist. If there was a way to have the search
engines literally pick out the best content and display it in first place, the
results would be vastly improved.

If search engines use any metric of your webpage that you can influence (on-page, off-page, bounce rate, social signals) SEO will always exist.

If you let "search engines pick out the best content," SEO would still be figuring out the metrics engines use to determine the best content or it would be copying and improving what's on the top 10 to kick someone off. Similar game.

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Oranges

15 years ago

Originally Posted by ttomp13

I want to say that I agree with you, but earlier in this thread, a Warrior pointed
out the website Metformin Side Effects dot Org. If you look at the search
results, you will see that this site definitely does NOT have quality content
compared to other sites.

Also, if you look at the websites backlink profile, you will see that these links
are artificially obtained.

The good news is that this website was in the #1 spot for the past few days,
and at this very minute, it is in the #3 spot. This tells me that Google is still
making some changes, or that the changes are not fully established around
the web.

Hopefully, this website drops of the rankings completely. Unfortunately,
Google has trouble devaluing sites that are using home page backlinks on
Class C IP addresses. If Google could devalue these links, then the organic
results would be vastly improved.

At the end of the day, if you don't artificially generate backlinks, and you do
continue providing good content to your readers, you will eventually win. At
least, that's what Matt Cutts, myself, and others would hope for.

Quite frankly, I wish SEO didn't exist. If there was a way to have the search
engines literally pick out the best content and display it in first place, the
results would be vastly improved.

That site is still on #1.
Checked with Rockford, IL IP in US.

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ttomp13

15 years ago

Is it just me, or are Exact Match Domains in the non-product related industries seeing a
climb in the rankings?

Example: Wall Mounted Pull Up Bar as an EMD would fall in the rankings, because it's
product related, and a site like Amazon would rank above it. Same for any other
product.

Example: Melatonin Side Effects, Birth Control Side Effects, Accutane Side Effects are
all ranking really well on page #1 for EMD, even with very little content on the site.

Thanks

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peterlaz

15 years ago

Thanks for all the suggestions and encouragement.

Since the first Panda update, I am seeing a trend here. Google wants to get rid of affiliates. They would love affiliates to go away and then all of the online retailers would have to buy Adwords ads to get traffic.

If you care to read the document "2011 Google Quality Raters Handbook" you will realize affiliates have been marked unless you are a company with deep pockets.

All my articles are original content (each about 700 - 1000 words) and each of my site has nothing less than 100 posts. The articles are well researched and no one can argue their value to users who are searching for unbiased independent reviews. My sites often outranked Amazon on many keywords. Now even the long tail keywords are trailing behind. My only standing site is an EMD which has seen an increase in traffic.

I have added new content and built backlinks during the past 3 months without much upward movement in traffic. If anything they have been temporary.

As for alternative traffic what choice do you really have? I have tried Bing and Facebook PPC without much success. The revenue can't cover costs. It is a loosing proposition. As for email marketing they don't work for electronics niche. So much product changes are taking place in the electronics world that subscribers don't really bother with the emails anymore! My email list is no longer as effective as it used to be 2 years ago.

I have been wondering why only Google has the biggest share of search engine traffic? What is Yahoo and Bing doing? Why can't they too send a decent number of visitors to your site? If you are not on the first ten on the SERPs then you get nothing. Imagine the number of sites competing for this positions. There are no clear cut rules on how you appear on the top ten. Above all keeping your position is also difficult as thousands of affiliates are also vying for the top ten positions, and the unpredictable algorithmic changes by Google create nightmares.

I am at a cross-road here. I have given my best to do what I have been doing. A lot of time and money have been wasted. A lot of Gurus have taken me for a ride. So much have been spent on content writers, graphic designers and VAs to build backlinks. The whole thing looks like some kind of "dark science"

If I continue building backlinks and add more contents will there be any reward for me at the end of the day? Affiliates are treated as spammers ("If a page exists only to make money, the page is spam", pg 95, 2011 Google Quality Raters Handbook). Is this the kind job you want to do? Your work considered as a spam (as decided by Google) and you are being treated like some kind crook!

Google has a hidden agenda. Like any business they serve their shareholders first, followed by their top executives and lastly all the low paid employees. You don't figure at all in their scheme of things. Neither do they owe us any living!

Thanks
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Bryan V

15 years ago

Originally Posted by peterlaz

Google wants to get rid of affiliates. They would love affiliates to go away and then all of the online retailers would have to buy Adwords ads to get traffic.

If they wanted all retailers to buy into Adwords, Amazon would not take countless top rankings. G would not know if you're an affiliate if you, for example, used your site to collect e-mails and sell to your list.

You can always create your own products, and not be an affiliate.

Affiliates worldwide are not closing up shop.

I think you are taking this too far. You make it sound like there's absolutely no way for anyone to make it anymore.

You mentioned your EMD is ranking well. Why not try another one of those in the time being to get your hopes back up. I would imagine in your 4 years you've weathered some storms already.

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Blue Collar Marketer

15 years ago

I agree, definitely going too far.

Did you actually read the whole thing? I don't think you did.

5.1.2 Not all Affiliates are Thin
Some affiliates are created to help users. Anyone can become an “affiliate” of merchant sites such as Amazon and link to Amazon products. Webmasters may do this to show products they like or to help users find a good deal.
For example, if the affiliate offers price comparison functionality, or displays product reviews, recipes, lyrics, etc., it is usually not a thin affiliate, and, therefore, not spam.

Your post in general is bordering on sensationalism. Google doesn't hate affiliates because a lot of affiliates prop up the search engines with decent quality. Sure there are spammy affiliates but those will be weeded out under the criteria listed in the guide book.

As big as Amazon is they cannot rank for every term under the sun.

Nor do they deserve to based on relevancy in most cases.

If I wanted to know the best manual coffee machine for under $150 with a premium milk frother attachment for example then Amazon is unlikely to come in the top 10. The same would be true if I was looking for spare parts for my lawn tractor or wanted to know why a particular brand was worth staying away from.

Even if Amazon did rank for such terms it would be so untargeted to the original keyword that you could easily outrank them if you were providing that sort of "value".

I think that is the point here, provide value, and build a community and there are going to be an endless amount of searches that people will find your site for. Long tail keywords will be in your content naturally if you strive to produce that sort of quality. No one should have to buy some fancy pants LSI creator tool and tediously insert the suggestions.

Google themselves say that the majority of searches are "one-off" searches (the percentage escapes me now) so you definitely can't underestimate the power of tapping into it.

Build a site you can be proud of and people won't need keywords to find it. They'll merely recommend your domain name to friends or be repeat visitors themselves. Remember, social media doesn't mean buying a bunch of google +1s on Fiverr, though some people will argue that sort of gaming has its place.

It has never been a better time to truly create something that you are proud of. Why not let Google rank your content on its merits instead of trying to essentially trick them with backlinks? We are all guilty of it but evidently the game is changing significantly.

If your site is of a high quality then I'm sure it will come back eventually.

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ttomp13

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Blue Collar Marketer

Build a site you can be proud of and people won't need keywords to find it.

EXACTLY, BROTHER.

For 3 years now, I have been trying to reach the end of the rainbow... But
unless you create content you're actually proud of, you're never going to
reach that rainbow.

IT'S ABOUT WORKING SMARTER, NOT HARDER.

Monday - Video.
Tuesday - Blog Post.
Wednesday - Blog Post.
Thursday - Blog Post.
Friday - Guest Post.

With a strategy like this, you can easily build a successful business online,
just as long as you're building quality content.

I think bloggers are under the impression that they need to write 5 - 10 posts
a day to be successful... And if all you're doing is blogging, then you probably
do.

But if you implement a video and a guest post once a week into your arsenal,
you will be on your way to success.

Fit 2 Fat 2 Fit is a prime example of a site where the guy probably doesn't
even know what the **** Panda or SEO is... SEO? What the **** is that?
Lol... Quite frankly, that's how it should be.

To get back to your point, build something you're proud of. Don't just build a site
because... "Oh.. It has good Niche power." Who gives a ****? Do you seriously
want to write about yeast infections all day?

If you are into what you're talking about, your readers will be too... Do something
or write something amazing, and the links will begin to flow your way.

Thanks
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Blue Collar Marketer 15 years ago

Yep, and I'm sure he is probably doing better than the majority of people that write content just for the sake of getting it ranked.

If we all did this then inevitably the web would be full of better stuff for Google to find and present to the users.

Look, I'm no angel here I don't exactly make all my income from authority sites but it's almost like I've seen the light and couldn't go back now, but why would you?

As with most reputable pursuits in life, the winners should be the ones who put in the most effort. I don't see why it should be any different online.
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mosthost

15 years ago

It's time to quit building websites and start building a real business. Businesses have to pay for promotions and marketing.

Google planned this outcome the whole time. First, they'll take anyone into their ad program and allow just about any types of pages to rank. After they have dominant market share, they close the gaps and buddy up with their corporate pals. The little guy gets shafted. The worst part for the little man is that he feels so disheartened because he was one of the pawns that helped build the G-beast in the first place.

Welcome to business and the real world. Google built their empire on the backs of website owners and now they don't really need any of us. If we want to survive, we adapt!

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ttomp13

15 years ago

I am loving all of the recent comments, guys. A lot of you seem motivated to
start fresh, and begin this new journey of QUALITY over QUANTITY. Those
who have the best game plan and those who execute that game plan will
succeed, with or without Google's help.

It looks like the next step for all of us is to delete this thread from our
bookmarks, and begin spending our energy on creating quality content.

It's been great discussing Panda with you all.

peace

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PicktownChris

15 years ago

My opinion is similar to what Peterlaz said in his post.. I think Google is favoring the big companies and pushing out the smaller affiliates... I don't do affiliate marketing so I don't quite know how it works, but I do know that search engines favor big clients heavily.

For example, I have a friend who works for Yahoo. He told me that in his department, unless you spend 10K / mo on advertisements, they have little to no interest in you. They have some clients paying in the big industries like automotive paying 100K / mo... Now you take google which is a much bigger market share than yahoo, and I can almost guarantee that big companies like Amazon are working with Google to get the higher rankings and push out the spammy affiliate sites.

One common thread I am seeing is everybody getting hit by the recent panda update are affiliate / adsense sites.. None of my websites got hit by this update and none of them have affiliate / adsense in them. They were built for actual businesses. However, I do use a lot of the same SEO of the websites that did get hit (article marketing, web 2.0, bookmark links, profile links, pyramids, etc)...

Ironically one website I am working on didn't get hit at all on Google on the 13th but dropped a lot on Bing on the 13th (but then later rebounded)... probably just a normal Bing dance, but I thought that was funny...

My best guess is, if you are doing Affiliate / Adsense for income, you better be working on a plan B just in case you don't rebound...

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TheFBGuy

15 years ago

Ahh... life at Google sure looks fun, eh? Lol, Google giving webmasters, businesses, and affiliates headaches with these algo changes while taking very good care of their employees. I wonder if these employees even have any idea what Panda is and what happens, hahaha.

Working at google.avi - YouTube

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Wakunahum 15 years ago

Almost all my sites took a fairly big hit in traffic on the 13th.

I haven't figured out how it's all related since some of these sites are very old with a large volume of pages (200+), some are small mini sites, some have massive backlinks, while others I have never built a single backlink at all to (in my earlier days of building sites when I didn't know what I was doing).

The only relationship that the sites that were hit on my accounts are the ones on the same Google Analytics account. Possibly on the 13th, these sites were given a manual penalty. Who knows?

As of yet, all these sites gained significant traffic since the Panda updates and this is the first downturn.
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Oranges

15 years ago

Originally Posted by TheFBGuy

Ahh... life at Google sure looks fun, eh? Lol, Google giving webmasters, businesses, and affiliates headaches with these algo changes while taking very good care of their employees. I wonder if these employees even have any idea what Panda is and what happens, hahaha.

Working at google.avi - YouTube

I hate those employees LOL!

Lucky bunch of nerds!

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JamesPenn

15 years ago

I got hit 10 days ago.

I went from 1,000-1,500 visitors per day to 180-220 per day.

I've sat tight since to see if there is any return since I don't think my site should have been penalized (but, let's face it, who does?) but there's been nothing.

After reading this thread, and some more reading away from the WF, here's what I plan to do to recover, and then improve, my rankings.

On Site

1. Remove excess ads and affiliate links.

My site is a content site. It has over 250 unique "how to" or informational blog posts. For example, "How To Use Tea Tree Oil For Your Hair".

On this page I currently share info on the benefits of tea tree for hair and how to use it etc. Within the article I link to pure tea tree oil, a tea tree shampoo and a tea tree conditioner on Amazon. I'll cut this down.

On all my "Hair Care" posts I also link to a hair oil affiliate program. I'll cut this down, too.

2. Increase page views and time on site

I'll do this by adding more links to relevant posts within - and at the end - of blog posts.

3. Increase page load speed.

Google Webmaster says my site is slower than 92% of other sites. I'll have to improve this and I've already taken a few actions to do so but any more tips would be appreciated.

Off Page

1. ONLY quality links.

The majority of my links are from high quality sources, such as guest posts on authority blogs, but I did get a little lazy and hired someone to generate what is probably poor quality links.

2. Increase social interaction on G+, Facebook, Twitter etc

I think we can all agree that increased legitimate social interaction can only be a good thing.

I'll let you know how these updates affect my rank.

James

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remodeler

15 years ago

Originally Posted by JamesPenn

I'll let you know how these updates affect my rank.

I'd be interested in knowing what effect it has. I've been doing a few of these things as well in the past week with little result up to this point. Still a little too early for the changes to have much effect though.

Thanks
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mooble

15 years ago

what's funny is the "old" panda didn't hit me at all, i didn't even know it happened. This one, however, has completely destroyed my business. My traffic is down 80% and has been since it hit. Almost all my sites have dropped many ranks, and several have disappeared altogether. Very depressing time in life, because i was really starting to crank things up. I've seen no signs of improvement at all in this past weeks. No signs of hope.

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carguy88

15 years ago

JamesPenn-

3. Increase page load speed.
Google Webmaster says my site is slower than 92% of other sites. I'll have to improve this and I've already taken a few actions to do so but any more tips would be appreciated.

If your page loading speed is really that slow, Google will definitely slap you down for it.

For Wordpress blogs, try a plugin like "WP Supercache" (tried it, some improvement, didn't like it) or "W3 Total Cache" (recommended by an SEO geek, haven't tried it).

The two best permanent solutions are:
1. Change your htaccess file (root directory level only) to automatically cache your pages (between updates) and serve from cache only. Lightening fast! (actual code for this below)
2. Host your blog on a really good host, like Media Temple -- blogs need massive servers/SQL resources, which you can't get for $8/mo. I pay $20/mo. for MediaTemple and it can take a page one Digg hit without any problem.

HERE'S THE ENTIRE CODE FROM AN OLD HTACCESS FILE THAT I USED EARLIER THIS YEAR--

# BEGIN Caching code
# year
<FilesMatch "\.(ico|pdf|flv|jpg|jpeg|png|gif|swf|mp3|mp4)$ ">
Header set Cache-Control "public"
Header set Expires "Sat, 18 Jun 2011 20:00:00 GMT"
Header unset Last-Modified
</FilesMatch>
#24 hours
<FilesMatch "\.(html|htm|xml|txt|xsl)$">
Header set Cache-Control "max-age=86400, must-revalidate"
</FilesMatch>
<FilesMatch "\.(js|css)$">
SetOutputFilter DEFLATE
Header set Expires "Sat, 18 Jun 2011 20:00:00 GMT"
</FilesMatch>
# END Caching code

# BEGIN WordPress
<IfModule mod_rewrite.c>
RewriteEngine On
RewriteBase /
RewriteCond %{REQUEST_FILENAME} !-f
RewriteCond %{REQUEST_FILENAME} !-d
RewriteRule . /index.php [L]
</IfModule>
# END WordPress

BE SURE TO CHANGE THE DATES FOR BOTH "Header set Expires..." lines (to expire 10 months from now) and remember to change these dates every 10-11 months (I think you are only allowed to set the date within 12 months, not sure.)

THAT'S IT!
GOOD LUCK.

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Lares 15 years ago

I really see no patterns here. All sites reacted different. They are all build in same way, same link building (more or less), same number of affiliate links on page, even most use same theme.

Site: 1
This one was hit October 7/8th but only inner pages and secondary keywords on homepage. I thought its just because its new but maybe they tested their update before. Anyway, inner pages returned October 20th a little higher than before.

Site: 2
Survived October 13 but got hit October 16 for all keywords. Also returned October 20th.

Site: 3 and 4
Inner pages got hit on October 13, some lost 2-3 positions, some drop to 2nd and 3rd page and some just disappeared. I have been building a lot of bookmarks to those last days but they improved just a little.

Site: 5
Down. Market Samurai says its on 4th page but i cant find it anywhere.

And 2 of sites were totally unaffected.
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- PicktownChris 15 years ago
  
  Lars, one variable could be the keyword itself... Is there any pattern with the amount of traffic the keyword gets with how hard it got hit?... I would guess that Google is working from the top down, so higher ranking keywords would get hit first and hardest... or maybe keywords in different industries...
  
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homeotreatment

15 years ago

Friends,
Am Abbas form Pakistan. i have a website. my website loose its page impressions 75% down. from last 10 days. I think i just submitted more than 55 Articles to different Directories to boost up my website traffic in just 5 days and i have 12000 back links in just 3-4 days. is this any kind of pnelaty from google??? is google treat this like an unnatural???? please help me to find answer about this.

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wyuguy

15 years ago

Are your guys' dropped sites have something in connection like Adsense or analytic or webmaster tool ?

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J3thro M

15 years ago

Maybe google is giving more weight now to the bounce rate of each website for a certain keyword. And from there, google will determine which site is deserving to put on top of the rankings? ? ?

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The Artful Surfer

15 years ago

I've lost a ton of long tail traffic, and also I'm seeing utter crap sites and squidoo and zimbio pages outranking my quality sites. What gives? It's ridiculous.

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ExploringInfinity

15 years ago

Originally Posted by The Artful Surfer

I've lost a ton of long tail traffic, and also I'm seeing utter crap sites and squidoo and zimbio pages outranking my quality sites. What gives? It's ridiculous.

Yup, it seems the same story is coming in from a lot of people.

Ohhhh sheit it might be time to do things differently again.

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rinor81 15 years ago

Originally Posted by ExploringInfinity

Yup, it seems the same story is coming in from a lot of people.

Ohhhh sheit it might be time to do things differently again.

But if crappy sites are above our quality and well link-built sites...how should we act differently? Do a worse job than before to get crappier and be back on top? :confused: I agree, this is idiotic and I don't know what Google is trying to achieve or if he's finished achieving it...
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DPM70

15 years ago

For me, the longtail searches have been hit hard (but only on one site in one niche in particular). It has resulted in a 50% - 60% drop in traffic. It's almost as if the G is targeting anyone targeting longtails because they see them as the minnows. The one's going after the crumbs.
The sites I see at the top for those longtails I used to rank for are what would be described as authority sites - Yahoo Answers, Youtube etc. It's like Google said: "OK we'll give these other minnows a chance to beat them to improve search results - and they did that for a year - but now they've rolled back to where we were a year ago. I kind of wonder if this is damage limitation for the whole Panda thing in the first place. And they're slowly but surely simply rolling back the clock.
The main keywords that I tried to rank that site for are all still there and ranking well. But the longtails are where 60% of my visitors came from and they made up 60% of my income.

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Conjur

15 years ago

Originally Posted by DPM70

For me, the longtail searches have been hit hard (but only on one site in one niche in particular). It has resulted in a 50% - 60% drop in traffic. It's almost as if the G is targeting anyone targeting longtails because they see them as the minnows. The one's going after the crumbs.
The sites I see at the top for those longtails I used to rank for are what would be described as authority sites - Yahoo Answers, Youtube etc. It's like Google said: "OK we'll give these other minnows a chance to beat them to improve search results - and they did that for a year - but now they've rolled back to where we were a year ago. I kind of wonder if this is damage limitation for the whole Panda thing in the first place. And they're slowly but surely simply rolling back the clock.
The main keywords that I tried to rank that site for are all still there and ranking well. But the longtails are where 60% of my visitors came from and they made up 60% of my income.

I agree that the long tails, or related keywords, seem to be what is impacted. And in my case that accounted for close to 80% of my traffic as I focused more on putting up quality content than building back links to support particular keywords, although the links do accumulate when others link to the site.

But I don't agree that the results for long tail searches are better. I'm seeing lots of crappy sites getting number 1 position, although I do notice Yahoo answers etc. in the top 5. Sites with broken links, sites that are clearly Adsense driven with no valuable content, and so forth!

Whatever the objective, Google is failing to serve up improved results for the searches I've tried, and for which I previously received traffic. Basically they are returning rubbish as search results! I'm sure they had honorable intentions, but this time they have really messed up their quality of results for many searches.

Hopefully they understand that and will do something about it. For my personal searches, I'm getting higher quality results from Bing right now, and I'm sure that is not something which Google intended!

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rinor81 15 years ago

I too see bad results for various searches but not all...

So the question remains if Google finished the update fully or not....do you really think this will last? What's the good thing that came out of this update? Nothing.

I'll continue my backlinking and content adding, only 1 site of mine got hit but all sites are the same and are promoted the same....maybe because the site that was hit is a technological device so maybe for products Google goes for the big guns and authority stores like Amazon, Cnet, Engadget and so on...

Maybe for niches which are not products and are more wide we can still be on page 1...
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Lew11is22

Banned 15 years ago

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rinor81

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Lew11is22

No, not really, all of my sites are doing pretty well, I submit everything manually with unique content.

You can out rank amazon easily if you know what your doing. Alot of those amazon listings are extensions.

I do everything manually as well including my blog network posts....other than this everything is done by me...still, my site got hit and sites like CNET, Engadget, Amazon are above me when previously I was ranked #2 and all my inner keywords were on page 1, now on pages 2, 4, or beyond...

Also, you see that it's not only me that got hit but a lot of people here but there is no clear pattern to why...it's not that clear for now but we have to try more....can't let Google shut us down!

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JawadAshraf

15 years ago

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rinor81

15 years ago

Originally Posted by JawadAshraf

Who cares about panda update.... at-least I don't. Because I know how to OVER TAKE panda forever. So, I am not worry about it and its not any dangerous thing for me because my proven SEO technique works ALL time whenever I apply it gives me top rankings for my targeted keywords. I always welcome panda...

Talking is great but care to share with us these techniques? Help some friends figure out?

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Bryan V 15 years ago

Originally Posted by rinor81

Talking is great but care to share with us these techniques? Help some friends figure out?

I think the goal is to sell you the stuff in his sig. :p
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- rinor81 15 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Bryan V
  
  I think the goal is to sell you the stuff in his sig. :p
  
  Is it working?
  
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TotalGaz

15 years ago

This post gives me hope. Took 16 days for labnol.org to come right after a panda update

Website Traffic Improves Two Weeks After Google Panda (Farmer) Update

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FlippinIt 15 years ago

Originally Posted by TotalGaz

This post gives me hope. Took 16 days for labnol.org to come right after a panda update

Website Traffic Improves Two Weeks After Google Panda (Farmer) Update

If this update has similar effect, there's 1 more week to go.
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ccronje

15 years ago

First ever post in the Warrior forum.

Just wanted to add some comments of my own here.

Some of my sites were severly affected, others not at all. If I look at my personal website profile it's pretty clear that all the sites that were affected are those that contain lots of affiliate links. I have 1 large adsense site and a whole bunch of local lead generation sites that weren't affected at all. All of my sites have the same backlink profiles across the board, so I don't think it has to do with backlinks. I also seem to have a big drop off in long tail and brandname keyword traffic like some others have said here.

With regards to this statement from the raters guide:

"If a page exists only to make money, the page is spam"

To be honest, this applies to every page at Amazon if you take it out of context like that.

Thanks
1 reply

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FlippinIt

15 years ago

Originally Posted by ccronje

First ever post in the Warrior forum.

Just wanted to add some comments of my own here.

Some of my sites were severly affected, others not at all. If I look at my personal website profile it's pretty clear that all the sites that were affected are those that contain lots of affiliate links. I have 1 large adsense site and a whole bunch of local lead generation sites that weren't affected at all. All of my sites have the same backlink profiles across the board, so I don't think it has to do with backlinks. I also seem to have a big drop off in long tail and brandname keyword traffic like some others have said here.

With regards to this statement from the raters guide:

"If a page exists only to make money, the page is spam"

To be honest, this applies to every page at Amazon if you take it out of context like that.

Well, Amazon is a large corporate client of G so it would be logical to keep your top customers happy, right? However, I think lowering amazon's SEO ranks would be much more profitable for G as they will likely spend more on ad spends, HAHA.

But the big question is, how would any site keep producing good content and user experience for the Internet without getting some sort of funding to keep it running? Even NGOs need money to operate. Of course, this argument can be a bit lob sided from a marketer's perspective

.

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brightgravity

15 years ago

have the rubbish sites stayed on top of the quality ones for you guys?

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PicktownChris 15 years ago

do the "Rubbish" sites have affiliate links in them like your "Quality" sites?
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snowcloud

15 years ago

yes i was affected and i am losing money rapidly

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Cool Hand Luke

15 years ago

Guys: Quit whining, and continue linking.

This is what I'm doing to ALL of my sites, including the couple of them that were hit by this update.

And you know what? They are already starting to rise back up the SERPs.

This kind of thing happens. When it does, move forward.

Thanks
3 replies

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mrtrance

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Cool Hand Luke

Guys: Quit whining, and continue linking.

This is what I'm doing to ALL of my sites, including the couple of them that were hit by this update.

And you know what? They are already starting to rise back up the SERPs.

This kind of thing happens. When it does, move forward.

Any particular type of links you are building that is working or just a mixture of links of articles/blogs/comments/profiles, etc.?

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boxoun

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Cool Hand Luke

Guys: Quit whining, and continue linking.

This is what I'm doing to ALL of my sites, including the couple of them that were hit by this update.

And you know what? They are already starting to rise back up the SERPs.

This kind of thing happens. When it does, move forward.

They are starting to rise up because of tweaks. Here you think your efforts had anything to do with it.

We'll stop whining if you stop pretending you know how to fix it.

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Christoffer

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Cool Hand Luke

Guys: Quit whining, and continue linking.

This is what I'm doing to ALL of my sites, including the couple of them that were hit by this update.

And you know what? They are already starting to rise back up the SERPs.

This kind of thing happens. When it does, move forward.

Hi Cool Hand Luke

I totally agree that is important to move on with the backlinking and just move on. Is there any types of backlinks you don't use any longer after these Panda updates and do you prefer some types of backlinks more than others?

Cheers,
Christoffer

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Mario29

15 years ago

My observation is that the main keyword SERP has not dropped, but the overall traffic dropped. I am assuming that is long tail keywords, which I don't bother to check and verify. But sad thing is that at the end of the day I lost more than 50% of revenue, especially starting today..

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Alstonian

15 years ago

For the benefit of new guys here like myself, is there a guidelines of tweaking that i can follow. Greatly appreciated!

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Cool Hand Luke

15 years ago

Originally Posted by mrtrance

Any particular type of links you are building that is working or just a mixture of links of articles/blogs/comments/profiles, etc.?

I wouldn't personally do profile links ever again, but BMR, social bookmarking, and a couple of other tricks are working great for me.

It's weird, a lot of my sites rose significantly, and picked up a lot of longtails, where as a couple of them fell (and are now coming back up). Hard to tell what this update was about, but considering the similarities between all of my sites, I'd say there is a major X-factor we haven't pinpointed yet.

Oh well, like I said, continued linking is getting them all higher than ever.

Originally Posted by boxoun

They are starting to rise up because of tweaks. Here you think your efforts had anything to do with it.

We'll stop whining if you stop pretending you know how to fix it.

:rolleyes:
Apparently you don't know the definition of irony. Heres a good example: you saying that you know for fact that my sites are rising because of "tweaks" and not my continued, successful linking when in fact, you have no idea, nor could you possibly ever get one, yet you are somehow trying to tell me I'm the one with misguided assumptions...

Do you work for Google's webspam or algorithm teams? Yeah, I didn't think so. So you're just talking out of your a** without anything to back it up. Got it.

Keep whining though, I'll enjoy the money I'm making in the meantime.

Thanks
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AToZ 15 years ago

I don't get this either I have a lot of affiliate sites and what's been destroyed by this update is just random.

Sites with the same amount and placement of affiliate links, and same SEO done to them have random results now, some are just #1 some thrown back to page 5 etc, there seems no logic, or nothing specific being targeted.
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coronaborcalis

15 years ago

My site still drop 50% traffic since 14 October, is there anyone who already recovered from this Panda?

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mikeavery10

15 years ago

I am frustrated with recent Panda updates. One of my sites down grade from PR 5 to PR 3. Dramatically my traffic also going down.

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NativeRem

15 years ago

Question: Should we be worried that our website has been HUGELY rewarded by this latest update (specifically the iteration of 2.5 that hit October 13th/14th?) We've seen an increase of 65% in traffic, 2f% in revenue, 29% in orders. However, our Paid Search is now falling rapidly (clearly as an outcome of our increased Organic numbers). Sitewide, we're not going up a ton, it just seems to be that Organic search is now pulling in larger numbers than our two leaders, e-mail and PPC. My worry is that this is a temporary lift and we're about to get bombed. We've gone to ranking number 1 for a VERY competitive search term: Natural Remedies. Any input would be great. We've built our site on VERY strong SEO, tags, and a huge set of content (instead of only product pages, we actually have more informational pages than products). We got killed by the initial Panda update early this year because we have VERY poor backlinking (no black hat sites, just a VERY small number of links, not many from high PR sites). We have been rebuilding our Organic numbers for quite some time, and we really seem to be at a peak we haven't seen before. Hence the worry...when will the other shoe drop?

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mgreener

15 years ago

Originally Posted by NativeRem

Question: Should we be worried that our website has been HUGELY rewarded by this latest update (specifically the iteration of 2.5 that hit October 13th/14th?) We've seen an increase of 65% in traffic, 2f% in revenue, 29% in orders. However, our Paid Search is now falling rapidly (clearly as an outcome of our increased Organic numbers). Sitewide, we're not going up a ton, it just seems to be that Organic search is now pulling in larger numbers than our two leaders, e-mail and PPC. My worry is that this is a temporary lift and we're about to get bombed. We've gone to ranking number 1 for a VERY competitive search term: Natural Remedies. Any input would be great. We've built our site on VERY strong SEO, tags, and a huge set of content (instead of only product pages, we actually have more informational pages than products). We got killed by the initial Panda update early this year because we have VERY poor backlinking (no black hat sites, just a VERY small number of links, not many from high PR sites). We have been rebuilding our Organic numbers for quite some time, and we really seem to be at a peak we haven't seen before. Hence the worry...when will the other shoe drop?

Hi,

The truth is that this will continue to fluctuate FOREVER. Google will always be updating and changing their algorithms. Best long term strategy is to continue adding quality content, building quality backlinks and social engagement.

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Conjur

15 years ago

Originally Posted by NativeRem

Question: Should we be worried that our website has been HUGELY rewarded by this latest update (specifically the iteration of 2.5 that hit October 13th/14th?)

It's interesting to hear from the people who have benefited from the Oct 13 / 14 change. Most, including myself, were badly hit.

As to whether you should be worried, you say your site has good content and good on-site optimization - both of which should help you in the long-term.

What I'm seeing is that the search results for long-tail terms have changed significantly. Many of us were benefiting from those pre Oct 14 and have lost a lot of traffic as a result. Your site must be one of those which is benefiting. However, more than half of the searches I've done on such terms have returned very poor pages in the first two or three positions. In other words, Google is not achieving what it wants - and they are providing a bad user experience for searchers.

Assuming this is happening to most people (and others here have pointed out that their search experience is similar) that's not something Google will let stand for long. Which means they are probably working on a fix for it which they will roll out when it's ready. I wouldn't be surprised if we see another big change soon - their first agenda item is providing good search results and they are failing woefully at that for many terms right now.

If that change is indeed in the works you may or may not experience some surprises depending on the nature of their tweaks.

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ale88

15 years ago

The Panda algorithm is designed to create panic. Period

Given the inability of the algorithm returns a good ranking in the SERPs and Mats citing Cutts who once remarked that "the algorithm is still not as smart as humans," and in the battle to combat spam and junk sites to deliver content quality g00gle has changed the approach to organizing information which is to reverse the workload prompting users to improve the content of their sites and away from spam, autoblogs and optimized sites for positioning only. If google would speak for itself "I want more quality web sites, nose what is human quality but you know what I mean if they want to do it away."

Then thousands of people come forward to say, the SEO is dead! Now we have to offer quality content and daily, let people 5 post per day to 800 words!

And it happens to the psychological effect sought g00gle. Of course, those who write quality and offer value will be rewarded but as a normal part of the algorithm of search engines and not by settings Panda, but even so it is necessary to position the traditional link-building and campaigns to get backlinks that both We talked throughout the forum and something that is still important if you want to win the competition!

Remember what I say, many websites that met suggested that Panda has been penalized and many other sites that break all the rules at this time are in the Top 1.

Then we discover that behind Panda before a series of complex mathematical formulas "with more than 200 factors under scrutiny" to imagine is an algorithm, this time it's something much more abstract and subjective bit stiff.

Makes sense, of course. Thus, the algorithm is not something that can be done "de-engineering" and detect the pattern is therefore always a mystery and belief rests positioning as stated in the belief that quality content and less link position-building will be achieved. It is important to emphasize this last part because many webmaster have given up with the link-building is only now believe content and interaction with users.

G00gle rules are very subjective so even "Panda is executed manually" and resulting in giant excellent excuse to reward or harm the web sites you want and avoid, by the way, questions and judgments of regulators EU tried in several cases through the justice find an explanation of the algorithm.

Do not waste time looking for answers to Panda

Ultimately this scenario will certainly leave many out of combat without ever fought and the opportunity to see your long-term business value by building quality content but do not forget a good promotion of the site with link-building campaigns .

What do you think??

[ 1 ] Thanks
2 replies

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FlippinIt

15 years ago

Originally Posted by ale88

The Panda algorithm is designed to create panic. Period

Given the inability of the algorithm returns a good ranking in the SERPs and Mats citing Cutts who once remarked that "the algorithm is still not as smart as humans," and in the battle to combat spam and junk sites to deliver content quality g00gle has changed the approach to organizing information which is to reverse the workload prompting users to improve the content of their sites and away from spam, autoblogs and optimized sites for positioning only. If google would speak for itself "I want more quality web sites, nose what is human quality but you know what I mean if they want to do it away."

Then thousands of people come forward to say, the SEO is dead! Now we have to offer quality content and daily, let people 5 post per day to 800 words!

And it happens to the psychological effect sought g00gle. Of course, those who write quality and offer value will be rewarded but as a normal part of the algorithm of search engines and not by settings Panda, but even so it is necessary to position the traditional link-building and campaigns to get backlinks that both We talked throughout the forum and something that is still important if you want to win the competition!

Remember what I say, many websites that met suggested that Panda has been penalized and many other sites that break all the rules at this time are in the Top 1.

Then we discover that behind Panda before a series of complex mathematical formulas "with more than 200 factors under scrutiny" to imagine is an algorithm, this time it's something much more abstract and subjective bit stiff.

Makes sense, of course. Thus, the algorithm is not something that can be done "de-engineering" and detect the pattern is therefore always a mystery and belief rests positioning as stated in the belief that quality content and less link position-building will be achieved. It is important to emphasize this last part because many webmaster have given up with the link-building is only now believe content and interaction with users.

G00gle rules are very subjective so even "Panda is executed manually" and resulting in giant excellent excuse to reward or harm the web sites you want and avoid, by the way, questions and judgments of regulators EU tried in several cases through the justice find an explanation of the algorithm.

Do not waste time looking for answers to Panda

Ultimately this scenario will certainly leave many out of combat without ever fought and the opportunity to see your long-term business value by building quality content but do not forget a good promotion of the site with link-building campaigns .

What do you think??

Was this translated from other language?

Thanks
1 reply

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ale88 15 years ago

Originally Posted by FlippinIt

Was this translated from other language?

yes, is translated from spanish
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- Michael R. 15 years ago
  
  Matt Cutts confirmed "minor changes" ironically, it has a huge impact to most sites.
  
  Sorry, don't get what you mean. Did he confirm that he said "minor changes" ironically (source?) or do you think his confirmation of minor changes was ironic?
  
  Thanks
  
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JRemington

15 years ago

Originally Posted by ale88

The Panda algorithm is designed to create panic. Period

Given the inability of the algorithm returns a good ranking in the SERPs and Mats citing Cutts who once remarked that "the algorithm is still not as smart as humans," and in the battle to combat spam and junk sites to deliver content quality g00gle has changed the approach to organizing information which is to reverse the workload prompting users to improve the content of their sites and away from spam, autoblogs and optimized sites for positioning only. If google would speak for itself "I want more quality web sites, nose what is human quality but you know what I mean if they want to do it away."

Then thousands of people come forward to say, the SEO is dead! Now we have to offer quality content and daily, let people 5 post per day to 800 words!

And it happens to the psychological effect sought g00gle. Of course, those who write quality and offer value will be rewarded but as a normal part of the algorithm of search engines and not by settings Panda, but even so it is necessary to position the traditional link-building and campaigns to get backlinks that both We talked throughout the forum and something that is still important if you want to win the competition!

Remember what I say, many websites that met suggested that Panda has been penalized and many other sites that break all the rules at this time are in the Top 1.

Then we discover that behind Panda before a series of complex mathematical formulas "with more than 200 factors under scrutiny" to imagine is an algorithm, this time it's something much more abstract and subjective bit stiff.

Makes sense, of course. Thus, the algorithm is not something that can be done "de-engineering" and detect the pattern is therefore always a mystery and belief rests positioning as stated in the belief that quality content and less link position-building will be achieved. It is important to emphasize this last part because many webmaster have given up with the link-building is only now believe content and interaction with users.

G00gle rules are very subjective so even "Panda is executed manually" and resulting in giant excellent excuse to reward or harm the web sites you want and avoid, by the way, questions and judgments of regulators EU tried in several cases through the justice find an explanation of the algorithm.

Do not waste time looking for answers to Panda

Ultimately this scenario will certainly leave many out of combat without ever fought and the opportunity to see your long-term business value by building quality content but do not forget a good promotion of the site with link-building campaigns .

What do you think??

I think you are a Spanish speaker who used Google translation to put your points into English. Am I right? Tengo razon?

Otherwise, some good points in here man and yes, we do have to try not to waste time looking for answers.

Thanks
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Rollmodl 15 years ago

Didnt even know there was an update or notice any changes. Just keep creating great content.
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autumnsmith

15 years ago

unfortunately, the impact may seem to continue. In addition, I have observed that PR and article publishing sites are affected too as even EZA has been losing its organic traffic. Is it still related to the said changes? Matt Cutts confirmed "minor changes" ironically, it has a huge impact to most sites.

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mattlaclear

15 years ago

Just keep backlinking folks. Nothing to see here.

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David Tan

15 years ago

my sites are all doing alright, if not increase in traffic

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AToZ

15 years ago

Does anyone know exactly, what the October 13th update went after?

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stelweb

15 years ago

Originally Posted by AToZ

Does anyone know exactly, what the October 13th update went after?

1. it has been ensured long tail traffic goes towards the sites that have more trustrank,
2. on-site issues such as thin or shallow content have made entire sites get hit leading to low traffic.

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1 reply

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AToZ

15 years ago

Originally Posted by stelweb

1. it has been ensured long tail traffic goes towards the sites that have more trustrank,
2. on-site issues such as thin or shallow content have made entire sites get hit leading to low traffic.

Mine got hit and they're not thin or shallow.

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1 reply

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autumnsmith 15 years ago

Originally Posted by AToZ

Mine got hit and they're not thin or shallow.

mine as well. Nobody can actually point out the actual changes
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- rinor81 15 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by autumnsmith
  
  mine as well. Nobody can actually point out the actual changes
  
  I agree.
  
  I have a site that got hit and other did not but all are promoted and look the same, the others did not change and are on page 1 on Google for their keywords.
  
  I'll just keep on building links and adding content, don't see anything else we can do at this point, do you?
  
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  reneeunderwood 15 years ago
  
  mine #1 keyword gone out of the window to "not in top 100". how could that happened? all long tails KWs seem to drop drastically and traffic down down down......
  
  Thanks
  
  1 reply
  
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  robftprod 15 years ago
  
  I thought my little experiment my help those struggling with the "Why??"
  
  Back in April/May I had 5 of my ebook sites hit by Panda 2.
  Some of these sites were 8 years old and had 100% unique articles and info.
  They all had well over 10,000 backlinks built patiently over the years.
  Most ranked for 10-25 keyword phrases in the top 2
  
  Within a week all of these established whitehat promoted sites were down to
  40-50 in the rankings.
  
  I waited for a few weeks to see if it was temporary.
  
  Some moved a bit, but nothing made it back to page one or two
  
  I tried an experiment. I took one of the sites and had it completely
  redone. Turned it into a blog with a static sales page.
  
  Drip fed a ton of original content, created 302 redirects from the old html
  site and started a varied, consistent backlinking.
  
  This site started to slowly move up month to month.
  
  On about October 14th I noticed that my revamped site is now ranking
  4-8 for it's major keywords.
  
  Here's the strange thing. Another old html site that I hadn't changed since
  the Panda slap is now ranking #1 for about 12 keywords. And all the
  major keywords are on the first page.
  
  This site has made me very little money for 5 months and is now making
  really good money!
  
  What does this mean?
  
  I don't know, and I don't think anyone can explain this.
  
  Just keep on building sites, some will work long term, others won't
  But no-one knows for sure.
  
  Rob
  
  Thanks
  
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Safia

15 years ago

The only sites that dropped were the ones I didn't use BMR on

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davidtong

15 years ago

Update...

2+ weeks after... One of my severely affected post (#1 dropped to page 3 or so) is back up to #2 without me doing anything to it...

2 of my formerly #1 posts are now #5 and 6, but 1-4 are all amazon product links, at least I moved ahead of the YT videos now.

My other KWs are still wayyy down, but that's alright..

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15 years ago

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TheFBGuy 15 years ago

Would someone be kind enough to answer my question?

Google has over 70% market share in Search, complete domination, and won't lose market share any time soon. Most casual searchers are content with Google. Then why constantly tweaking and releasing these "algo updates"? Will users really move way from Google if there weren't all these algo updates?

Let's be honest here, are these updates all really aimed at improving search? Or is there another motive? If confusion among SEOs, webmasters and internet marketers is one of those objectives, then Google is doing great job, lol.
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DPM70

15 years ago

Do you not want to improve your company in any way you can? Would you sit static and still with your current income generators? While everything around you is constantly changing? It happens in all businesses that want to stick around for a while. It's called "Change". Those businesses that don't change and adapt to market forces become stagnant and die. This is what Google is doing. And it will take the likes of you and me out in the "click of your fingers" if you are impacting negatively on their goals.

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timpears

15 years ago

This may have been said before, but with nearly 600 posts, I didn't read them all.

In the last twelve months there have been over 500 updates to Google's algorithm. So to attribute any changes to Panda or any other named update is a little overboard I think. They make a change more than once per day on average.

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BDubC

15 years ago

Don't use a bunch of tools if you don't know what you are doing. Use diverse higher quality backlinks and unique content. Google won't mess with you.

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neil_patmore

15 years ago

Looks mine was a manual penalty after all. Google replied to a reinclusion request stating that some or all pages violate the quality guidelines. Removed every bit of on page optimisation and filed another request. Don't know what else I can do.

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peterlaz 15 years ago

This is the standard cookie-cutter reply one gets from Google. Is it too much to ask what exactly was violated? Why can't they pin-point the violation? Is it on-site or off-site violation? Is it too many affiliate links? Who decides what is too many?

They used Quality Score to weed out affiliates from Adwords. Today you see e-commerce sites hardly having any content and often does not contain the product you are searching for. They don't add much value other than parading their stuff.

If you are an affiliate you have a poor quality score, you have violated quality guidelines, ...

Panda is all about weeding out duplicate content and content farms. When did "quality violation" came into the picture?
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winnershah

15 years ago

Hi,
Everyone, one of my friend told me that google has stopped PR And link building
is this true. if yes than all are the SEO persons what have to do for this problem.
if it possible pls provide me the link where this news is published by google please ans me as soon as possible... i am waiting for your ans and link.

Thanks & Regards
Winner Shah

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3 replies

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FlippinIt

15 years ago

We are waiting for the link from your friend, where he/she got the info from.

Originally Posted by winnershah

Hi,
Everyone, one of my friend told me that google has stopped PR And link building
is this true. if yes than all are the SEO persons what have to do for this problem.
if it possible pls provide me the link where this news is published by google please ans me as soon as possible... i am waiting for your ans and link.

Thanks & Regards
Winner Shah

Thanks

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Zeb

15 years ago

Originally Posted by winnershah

Hi,
Everyone, one of my friend told me that google has stopped PR And link building
is this true. if yes than all are the SEO persons what have to do for this problem.
if it possible pls provide me the link where this news is published by google please ans me as soon as possible... i am waiting for your ans and link.

Thanks & Regards
Winner Shah

Your friend is scare mongering you. Like a bunch of other warriors here too. :rolleyes:

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agmantz 15 years ago

Originally Posted by winnershah

Hi,
Everyone, one of my friend told me that google has stopped PR And link building is this true.

Yep... Your friend might be the best person to asked for the news link.

Kindly share once you have it.
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CanadaSEO

15 years ago

Not only affected, it changed entirely everything. geez!

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PicktownChris

15 years ago

Has anybody had a drop in the rankings from the Oct 13 update on a website that does NOT have affiliate links on it?... I am still thinking that is the common thread with the Oct 13 update... None of my websites dropped but I don't have any affiliate links on them.. However I use a lot of the "easy" link building techniques with minimal unique content... so if it was the link building or the content, then my sites should have dropped...

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Stephen Crooks

15 years ago

Originally Posted by PicktownChris

Has anybody had a drop in the rankings from the Oct 13 update on a website that does NOT have affiliate links on it?... I am still thinking that is the common thread with the Oct 13 update... None of my websites dropped but I don't have any affiliate links on them.. However I use a lot of the "easy" link building techniques with minimal unique content... so if it was the link building or the content, then my sites should have dropped...

There is a lot more going on under the hood than something as simple as whether there are affiliate links or not. My opinion and this is based on researching my own sites that have been affected negatively and positively by Panda is this.. It does have a bearing but only based on what Google deem as the intent of the searcher and what they want to show them as a result. I have written a blog post about the Panda update if you care to read Panda Update – How to beat the Panda | The Internet Marketing Challenge Blog

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PicktownChris

15 years ago

Steve, I read your blog post and it had some good points.. one thing I would like to quote:

"little doubt in my mind that the Panda update is doing a better job at matching searcher intent with the content that will help them best."

To me that is saying bounce rate could be a bigger factor now with the new Panda update.... That makes sense to me because if someone found what they were looking for, then they are going to stay on the website longer, and there are many ways for Google to see how long they stay. Those sites that are made just for affiliate links / adsense in my opinion are easier and easier to spot, and I know when ever I land on one of those pages, I leave right away (high bounce rate)... My websites have a low bounce rate so that could be a big factor to why I didn't get dinged by the update at all..

Originally Posted by Steve Crooks

There is a lot more going on under the hood than something as simple as whether there are affiliate links or not. My opinion and this is based on researching my own sites that have been affected negatively and positively by Panda is this.. It does have a bearing but only based on what Google deem as the intent of the searcher and what they want to show them as a result. I have written a blog post about the Panda update if you care to read Panda Update - How to beat the Panda | The Internet Marketing Challenge Blog

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1 reply

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Stephen Crooks

15 years ago

Originally Posted by PicktownChris

Steve, I read your blog post and it had some good points.. one thing I would like to quote:

"little doubt in my mind that the Panda update is doing a better job at matching searcher intent with the content that will help them best."

To me that is saying bounce rate could be a bigger factor now with the new Panda update.... That makes sense to me because if someone found what they were looking for, then they are going to stay on the website longer, and there are many ways for Google to see how long they stay. Those sites that are made just for affiliate links / adsense in my opinion are easier and easier to spot, and I know when ever I land on one of those pages, I leave right away (high bounce rate)... My websites have a low bounce rate so that could be a big factor to why I didn't get dinged by the update at all..

I suppose it does raise the question of how Google can measure what is the best fit for a searcher's intent algorithmically.. I suppose bounce rate could be a small factor but we are back in the realms of guesswork and opinion with all due respect.

What you say makes perfect sense and things like time on site and bounce rate would indicate to Google whether a web page is a good fit for a keyword or not. I just think it is probably more to do with offering a better fit of the type of content (or mixture of content), i.e. video heavy, image heavy or a mixture. The normal SEO rules will still apply but if your page is just an article with little else, it is not going to compete with other pages that have a mixture and vice versa.

This is based on what I have seen with my own sites and I know there is a lot of contradictory evidence out there as well. Remember, Panda is a manual incremental update and as such is rolling out slowly. This can account for these contradictions.

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treezie

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Steve Crooks

I suppose it does raise the question of how Google can measure what is the best fit for a searcher's intent algorithmically.. I suppose bounce rate could be a small factor but we are back in the realms of guesswork and opinion with all due respect.

What you say makes perfect sense and things like time on site and bounce rate would indicate to Google whether a web page is a good fit for a keyword or not. I just think it is probably more to do with offering a better fit of the type of content (or mixture of content), i.e. video heavy, image heavy or a mixture. The normal SEO rules will still apply but if your page is just an article with little else, it is not going to compete with other pages that have a mixture and vice versa.

This is based on what I have seen with my own sites and I know there is a lot of contradictory evidence out there as well. Remember, Panda is a manual incremental update and as such is rolling out slowly. This can account for these contradictions.

A good way to measure searcher's intent in the algo: see if the user goes back to the search page and clicks on any of the other sites in the SERPs. Cuz if the user found what he/she is looking for, there is no need to go back to the search page and look at another site for the same query.

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Do

15 years ago

One of my sites have 2 keywords sit on the 1st of google for nearly a year, recent google panda dropped me to #3, and #5. I immediately gave some boost, 1 week later, back to #1.

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miker501

15 years ago

I can;t really see why bounce rate is a factor, perhaps my logic does not align with Google's.

Surely if someone finds a page that is EXACTLY what they want, then they have no need to delve deeper into the site. Bounce rate as we know is when the searcher leaves the entry page back to Google or presses the 'back' button, but they could stay on that page for 10 mins and it would still be considered a 'bounce'.

Perhaps time on site is more important that bounce rate??

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1 reply

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PicktownChris

15 years ago

I think it would be the combination of both bounce rate and time on site... If Google sees most people going to a website and only staying on a few seconds before they bounce off of it, then Google is probably smart enough to know that the people are not finding what they are looking for... however if the people stay on there a long time and don't bounce off right away, then Google will see that site as having the information they are looking for... To me bounce rate and time on site go hand in hand... and I think it is one of the major factors with the new panda update...

Anybody with a low bounce rate / long visitor visits get penalized by the new Panda update?

Originally Posted by miker501

Perhaps time on site is more important that bounce rate??

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4 replies

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Chris Sweeney

15 years ago

Originally Posted by PicktownChris

I think it would be the combination of both bounce rate and time on site... If Google sees most people going to a website and only staying on a few seconds before they bounce off of it, then Google is probably smart enough to know that the people are not finding what they are looking for...

I can see your logic behind that, and I used to think that as well. However, now I feel it really depends on what the user is searching for. ALL THE TIME, I do searches and find exactly what I need within 2 seconds of hopping on the site, so I then hop back off the site. For example, just the other day, I was unsure of a certain song lyric. I Googled it, clicked through, found what I was looking for within 3 seconds, so I left the site. Although I only spent a few seconds on the site and jumped off quickly, I found EXACTLY what I wanted/needed; I feel that both Google and the search result I clicked through to served me quite well. I think Google is smart enough to understand that not all search queries require several minutes for a user to find what they're looking for on a webpage. Therefore, I don't believe they weight bounce rate and time on site so much as ranking factors.

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Conjur

15 years ago

Originally Posted by PicktownChris

I think it would be the combination of both bounce rate and time on site... If Google sees most people going to a website and only staying on a few seconds before they bounce off of it, then Google is probably smart enough to know that the people are not finding what they are looking for... however if the people stay on there a long time and don't bounce off right away, then Google will see that site as having the information they are looking for... To me bounce rate and time on site go hand in hand... and I think it is one of the major factors with the new panda update...

Anybody with a low bounce rate / long visitor visits get penalized by the new Panda update?

It sounds reasonable that such logic might be built into the search algorithm. And it might explain why some were hit and others not. But what it does not explain is the poorer quality of results for positions 1 - 3 since October 13. And as the previous poster pointed out, giving readers exactly what they want might hurt you even though they are leaving your site perfectly happy with the experience and with their answer, which is what Google is supposed to facilitate!

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FlippinIt

15 years ago

Originally Posted by PicktownChris

I think it would be the combination of both bounce rate and time on site... If Google sees most people going to a website and only staying on a few seconds before they bounce off of it, then Google is probably smart enough to know that the people are not finding what they are looking for... however if the people stay on there a long time and don't bounce off right away, then Google will see that site as having the information they are looking for... To me bounce rate and time on site go hand in hand... and I think it is one of the major factors with the new panda update...

Anybody with a low bounce rate / long visitor visits get penalized by the new Panda update?

What would be considered a good low bounce rate / long visitor visits?
My site's average bounce rate for the past month is 57.44%. The keyword which I want to rank for my domain has 2.44 pages/visit, 1.56 average time on site, bounce rate, 39.38%.

I use "featured" type, slideshow theme on my site and I find that it has much lower bounce rates than inner pages.

I dropped 4 spots since last update while other long tails dropped significantly more.

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agmantz

15 years ago

Originally Posted by PicktownChris

...
Anybody with a low bounce rate / long visitor visits get penalized by the new Panda update?

I don't know if you call it penalized... I have a site with a bounce rate 40 to 60 percent, One of my main KW drop from #1 to #4.

I think bouce rate is not one of the main factor for me.

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1 reply

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thedog

15 years ago

Hitler's reaction to Google's panda update -...

So... looking to the future, with my new sites... do I just add backlinks slowly?

Can I still use backlinking services?

I used 3 separate services on 3 keywords... for which I have an EMD... all 3, banished by google.... one of the service providers, said that I should bounce back in the next update.

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mbarty2010

15 years ago

Originally Posted by thedog

Hitler's reaction to Google's panda update - YouTube

So... looking to the future, with my new sites... do I just add backlinks slowly?

Can I still use backlinking services?

I used 3 separate services on 3 keywords... for which I have an EMD... all 3, banished by google.... one of the service providers, said that I should bounce back in the next update.

LOL at 3:10

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backlinksninja

15 years ago

My experience with all my good content sites has been extremely positive post panda. One website was on and off page#1 now sitting firmly at position 5 not only for the main kw but also for LSI kws....

However, one of my favourite adsense autoblog site fell heavily from 4000 uniques to about 900.

This proves that it is good time for content sites :-)

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PicktownChris

15 years ago

My average bounce rate is 32% and average length on site is 4 min 32 sec ...

I think Google is smart enough to know the difference between an informational search vs a search with high commercial intent... So my guess would be Google's update wouldn't apply to keywords that have no commercial intent (the searches that are just to look up a quick piece of information that would have a high bounce rate because the person found what they were looking for)... So the theories of bounce rate and time on site playing a major role would really just apply to those keywords with high commercial intent (the ones that everybody is trying to monetize)...

If there are still some "crap" sites out there ranking in the first spot... maybe they somehow found a way to artificially inflate the time on site / bounce rate to be favorable and that's why they are ranked high... afterall, the only people that are going to know those numbers are google and the owner... So if all of the other factors are saying that crap site shouldn't be ranked high, then maybe its the factors that you cant see that are keeping it ranked high...

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1 reply

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FlippinIt

15 years ago

Just experienced further drops and some Google Dance. Which is better than seeing it stuck!

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1 reply

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W.P. Allen

15 years ago

Google's a mess and their search results suck. Try using Bing for a week. You'll never go back to Google.

Also, when Facebook develops their own search engine Google will be destroyed.

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2 replies

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rinor81

15 years ago

Originally Posted by W.P. Allen

Google's a mess and their search results suck. Try using Bing for a week. You'll never go back to Google.

Also, when Facebook develops their own search engine Google will be destroyed.

Will be interesting if Facebook will have its own search engine, how to rank there high and how this whole Google VS. Facebook war will have its impact on internet marketing...

Any ideas if and when it will happen? Will it affect Google hart to hit it?

I thought the Yahoo + Microsoft collaboration will give Google a fight but not even close...now interesting to see how it will turn out on the Facebook side....

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FlippinIt

15 years ago

Originally Posted by W.P. Allen

Google's a mess and their search results suck. Try using Bing for a week. You'll never go back to Google.

Also, when Facebook develops their own search engine Google will be destroyed.

I rather not see Google getting destroyed, a balance would be the best. That way marketers have more power to change things and switch sides when another panda comes a long.

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andy25i

15 years ago

No.. i am working ok. Its only for website like article websites which have got plenty of duplicates contents.

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Chris X

15 years ago

A couple of my sites got hit but not that bad. I was ranking on page 1 - went down to the top of page two.
Did a little link building use SENukeX and I'm back

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g_noe

15 years ago

Panda is kind to me so far...

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1 reply

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rinor81 15 years ago

Well, I am pissed!

Have a site which was hurt badly and had a keyword in UK with 6,600 searches per month exact for months on position 2 of Google...after the update that keyword went down to #5....a few days later to #7 and today it's #10.....

I'm so angry, the sites above me are Wikipedia and other authority sites that don't even have the exact phrase and inner pages....Google just let them be up there because they're big, not because they are more suitable than my site...

All the inner pages and their keywords are down from page 1 to page 4, 5, and beyond...I know I need to just keep building links and so on but the revenue is down now because all the traffic is down...I don't know where it will stop...so frustrating!!!
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trolo

15 years ago

My automotive site is also affected after the updation of google panda. isitors have drop down. My site have fresh content. Dont know where I went wrong can anybody suggest me what changes I have to do to overcome form this. The name of my site is indiandrives[dot]com. waiting for your reply guys.

Thanks
3 replies

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rinor81

15 years ago

Originally Posted by trolo

My automotive site is also affected after the updation of google panda. isitors have drop down. My site have fresh content. Dont know where I went wrong can anybody suggest me what changes I have to do to overcome form this. The name of my site is indiandrives[dot]com. waiting for your reply guys.

You have a very nice site and I see the amount of traffic is very good...only comes to show that even good, big and quality sites got hurt and not only small niche sites...no one really knows what is the pattern of this update, my site got badly hurt as well - keep on building and adding content...nothing more I can offer for now...make the site more user friendly perhaps in the eyes of Google...

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PicktownChris

15 years ago

The first thing I see when I go to yoru website Trolo is a a big ad for a blackberry... If I am looking for cars and I see that, I would most likely bounce off of your site really quick...

Originally Posted by trolo

My automotive site is also affected after the updation of google panda. isitors have drop down. My site have fresh content. Dont know where I went wrong can anybody suggest me what changes I have to do to overcome form this. The name of my site is indiandrives[dot]com. waiting for your reply guys.

Thanks

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andyj00

15 years ago

Originally Posted by trolo

My automotive site is also affected after the updation of google panda. isitors have drop down. My site have fresh content. Dont know where I went wrong can anybody suggest me what changes I have to do to overcome form this. The name of my site is indiandrives[dot]com. waiting for your reply guys.

One thing I would say is be very careful of that image next to the ads half way down the page. This is against TOS and if Google catch up with you - you could be in trouble.

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thedog

15 years ago

3 of my main longtail keywords are gone... I was moving up the rankings, hit page 1 for both of them for a couple of days around the 20th October... now, they're gone.

I used 3 sepearte warrior backlinking services... how can I tell if one of these has hurt my site... I have my suspicions which one (the cheapest)

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paul nicholls

15 years ago

many things have been said about why sites have dropped in rankings etc

i like to keep things nice and simple

i am a niche marketer and yes i do have a few sites which make money with adsense and amazon

but... all i do now is work on 1 site and building it out.

Who do you think google will value more, someone that makes a new post every 7, 14, 30 days or someone that posts everyday?

im making new posts nearly every day and my site is doing awesome and constantly being found for new keywords

by making a new post every single day its impossible for you not to start getting good traffic because you are forcing the spiders to crawl your site every day looking for new content to index

forget all the other palava

work on 1 site

build it really big into an authority site

post every single day with fresh unique juicy content

PS: if your not convinced if it will work for you....try it for a month and see for yourself

paul

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markowe

15 years ago

Originally Posted by paul nicholls

by making a new post every single day its impossible for you not to start getting good traffic because you are forcing the spiders to crawl your site every day looking for new content to index

forget all the other palava

work on 1 site

build it really big into an authority site

post every single day with fresh unique juicy content

PS: if your not convinced if it will work for you....try it for a month and see for yourself

Yeah, this works. Of course, someone will come along and say, yeah, but my quality, authority site got hit too or, yeah, but let me go head to head with your site, and I will just use high power backlinks and beat you every time.

But for others like me, who really find it easier to produce decent content in a given subject area than constantly be messing around with backlinking schemes of one sort or another, it is going the way you say - just work on the content and watch the results, much easier. This way you can rank page one for a whole new bunch of longtails every single time you produce any new content. It all adds up.

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imintern 15 years ago

Originally Posted by paul nicholls

Who do you think google will value more, someone that makes a new post every 7, 14, 30 days or someone that posts everyday?

The one that makes a new post every 7th day. That's what I do and besides I also try to build quality links.

But when I see a site with a single page or another whose last blog post was published at the end of 2009 beat me to the top positions, I feel helpless. My site is a combination of a HTML site with a blog attached to it and has more than 300 pages and blog posts between them. It was at the #1 position on Google for more than 2 years until the October 2011 Panda update. Lost the ranking and 70% of the earnings.

It's a hopeless situation. I don't know what to do. My site, believe me, is better than theirs, from every perspective.

At the moment I am just doing what I have been doing for months ... adding good content, building links steadily. And praying.
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Cataclysm1987

15 years ago

Here's an interesting thing I noticed.

It's not just aged authority sites that got a boost. It was aged links as well.

In other words, if there are links pointing to your sites that are 5 or 10 years old, that is worth 50 or 100 of my brand new links in Google's eyes, making it even tougher to take down big authorities.

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superb8effect

15 years ago

Yes. I had sudden drops on traffic since 13th.

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NativeRem

15 years ago

I'd like to repost a question here, and also include my site this time to get some feedback. Question: Should we be worried that our website has been HUGELY rewarded by this latest update (specifically the iteration of 2.5 that hit October 13th/14th)?

We've seen an increase of 65% in traffic, 25% in revenue, 29% in orders. Obviously, our Paid Search is now falling rapidly (clearly as an outcome of our increased Organic numbers). Sitewide, we're not going up a ton, though we do show a small increase, it just seems to be that Organic search is now pulling in larger numbers than our two leaders, e-mail and PPC.

My worry is that this is a temporary lift and we're about to get bombed. We've gone to ranking number 1 for a VERY competitive search term: "Natural Remedies". Any input would be great. We've built our site on VERY strong SEO, tags, and a huge set of content (instead of only product pages, we actually have more informational pages than products, around 5 info pages to 1 page of products).

We got killed by the initial Panda update early this year because we have VERY poor backlinking (no black hat sites, just a VERY small number of links, not many from high PR sites). Perhaps our lack of content farmed links is finally paying off...? We have been rebuilding our Organic numbers for quite some time, and we really seem to be at a peak we haven't seen before.

Hence the worry...when will the other shoe drop? Site: nativeremedies[dot]com.

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PicktownChris

15 years ago

Congrats on the high rankings.. It looks to me like your website is an actual website selling products, not a website with affiliate links trying to sell a product..

What is your bounce rate / visitor length on site?.. I bet they are good...

Your website has great on page seo, great content, no affiliate links, and presumably good bounce rate, visitor length on site... All of that is what Google is looking for to determine that it's giving a visitor a good user experience...

I bet having your website listed in the BBB helps a lot in making it look legitimate in Google's eyes... how many affiliate websites are in the BBB?... Also having a copyright on your name I bet helps as well...

I would stay 100% legit with that site if I were you... Are you doing anything with facebook / twitter?...

Nice Job!

Originally Posted by NativeRem

I'd like to repost a question here, and also include my site this time to get some feedback. Question: Should we be worried that our website has been HUGELY rewarded by this latest update (specifically the iteration of 2.5 that hit October 13th/14th)?

We've seen an increase of 65% in traffic, 25% in revenue, 29% in orders. Obviously, our Paid Search is now falling rapidly (clearly as an outcome of our increased Organic numbers). Sitewide, we're not going up a ton, though we do show a small increase, it just seems to be that Organic search is now pulling in larger numbers than our two leaders, e-mail and PPC.

My worry is that this is a temporary lift and we're about to get bombed. We've gone to ranking number 1 for a VERY competitive search term: "Natural Remedies". Any input would be great. We've built our site on VERY strong SEO, tags, and a huge set of content (instead of only product pages, we actually have more informational pages than products, around 5 info pages to 1 page of products).

We got killed by the initial Panda update early this year because we have VERY poor backlinking (no black hat sites, just a VERY small number of links, not many from high PR sites). Perhaps our lack of content farmed links is finally paying off...? We have been rebuilding our Organic numbers for quite some time, and we really seem to be at a peak we haven't seen before.

Hence the worry...when will the other shoe drop? Site: nativeremedies[dot]com.

Thanks

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Daniel Wilson

15 years ago

[DELETED]

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sandra98

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Daniel Wilson

Hi!

Is it just me or Panda blew off the "strategy" keyword? I had two domains ranking high with keywordstrategy.com domain names and both got to the 10+ page of Google.

Daniel

I doubt that Google would penalize websites for having a nice word like "Strategy" in their domain name. Doesn't seem reasonable.

Thanks

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sandra98

15 years ago

Here is a podcast James Martell did about the Panda 2.5 update. James has been in affiliate marketing for a number of years, so its great to hear his take on things.

Affiliate Buzz #226 – Yet Another Google Panda Update - James Martell | James Martell

Thanks
1 reply

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Lares

15 years ago

Originally Posted by sandra98

Here is a podcast James Martell did about the Panda 2.5 update. James has been in affiliate marketing for a number of years, so its great to hear his take on things.

Affiliate Buzz #226 - Yet Another Google Panda Update - James Martell | James Martell

Well in this 30 min long audio all he says its that sites that got dropped didn't vary anchor text. But this is known for a long time. I have very varied anchor text on all of my websites, probably bellow 30% for main keyword. All i see that sites that are above me are aged 5-15 years, they have a lot of pages indexed (many thousands or millions) and millions backlinks to whole domain.
Some of those sites have 0 backlinks, and not even optimized properly. Some are not even relevant. All i see that large authority sites got boosted a lot and everything else dropped.

Thanks
1 reply

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thedog

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Lares

Well in this 30 min long audio all he says its that sites that got dropped didn't vary anchor text. But this is known for a long time. I have very varied anchor text on all of my websites, probably bellow 30% for main keyword. All i see that sites that are above me are aged 5-15 years, they have a lot of pages indexed (many thousands or millions) and millions backlinks to whole domain.
Some of those sites have 0 backlinks, and not even optimized properly. Some are not even relevant. All i see that large authority sites got boosted a lot and everything else dropped.

This is what happened to me I reckon.

Do you guys think that using more varied anchor text from now on will fix this?

Thanks
1 reply

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Chris Sweeney

15 years ago

Originally Posted by thedog

This is what happened to me I reckon.

Do you guys think that using more varied anchor text from now on will fix this?

Nope, not at all. Take a look at this post from a few pages back: http://www.warriorforum.com/adsense-...ml#post4898977

The guy barely varies his anchor text. What he does have, though, are a ton of powerful, high PR backlinks.

[ 1 ] Thanks
1 reply

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Ben S

15 years ago

You are completely right in your assessment Chris.

I guess I have two questions though:

a) Is theoretically throwing a bunch of high PR links at a Panda slapped site going to fix the problem?

and

b) How long before Google finds that site you mentioned and penalizes it for on-page factors, or does the sheer amount of high quality links protect it? (i.e it might be ruled as spam under a manual review?)

Thanks

Thanks
3 replies

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Chris Sweeney

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Ben S

You are completely right in your assessment Chris.

I guess I have two questions though:

a) Is theoretically throwing a bunch of high PR links at a Panda slapped site going to fix the problem?

and

b) How long before Google finds that site you mentioned and penalizes it for on-page factors, or does the sheer amount of high quality links protect it? (i.e it might be ruled as spam under a manual review?)

Thanks

a) Theoretically, yes, but in reality, no, because Google has a link age filter in place. A website won't receive full benefit of a given link's juice right away. Rather, the juice is slowly dripped. This is in place, like many of their other filters and algorithms, to deter spammers from throwing a bunch of high quality links at their money sites to gain a quick high ranking.

b) As long as everything else on your site is legit, and no one reports your site to Google for whatever reason, then you have nothing to worry about. However, under a manual review, if Google sees that a lot of your links are coming from high PR homepages and the like that have no theme or aren't relevant to your site, they will assume them as rented/purchased links and will most likely penalize you. But again, I wouldn't worry about it.

Thanks
2 replies

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Ben S 15 years ago

Cool, thanks for you reply.

So with that in mind, I guess the best thing to do with a Panda-affected site is to improve the quality of the links, post well and post regularly and hope for the best
- Thanks
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mrtrance

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Chris Sweeney

a) Theoretically, yes, but in reality, no, because Google has a link age filter in place. A website won't receive full benefit of a given link's juice right away. Rather, the juice is slowly dripped. This is in place, like many of their other filters and algorithms, to deter spammers from throwing a bunch of high quality links at their money sites to gain a quick high ranking.

b) As long as everything else on your site is legit, and no one reports your site to Google for whatever reason, then you have nothing to worry about. However, under a manual review, if Google sees that a lot of your links are coming from high PR homepages and the like that have no theme or aren't relevant to your site, they will assume them as rented/purchased links and will most likely penalize you. But again, I wouldn't worry about it.

What is your take on blog comments from PR 3-6 pages with low OBL (50 or less)? Are those good to get and will help to move sites up the SERPs?

Thanks

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Mike Anthony

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Ben S

a) Is theoretically throwing a bunch of high PR links at a Panda slapped site going to fix the problem?

Its not theoretical as I indicated in another thread I have brought back sites of even some people in this thread with just a few PR links with low outbound links

Thanks
2 replies

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DPM70

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Its not theoretical as I indicated in another thread I have brought back sites of even some people in this thread with just a few PR links with low outbound links

So this would work for a site that has lost a lot of longtail keyword traffic on inner pages but still ranks well for it's main keywords (which is what has happened to my site - and by the sounds of it - many others)

The trouble is, without backlink 50 - 100 inner pages manually, is there a service that could throw a few good PR links at each page? I think this is a service that is lacking - anybody know of one?

Thanks

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mrtrance

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Its not theoretical as I indicated in another thread I have brought back sites of even some people in this thread with just a few PR links with low outbound links

What is your take on getting high PR(3-6) blog comments to use for improving rankings?

Which link is more effective...a PR6 blog comment with like 75 OBL vs a PR 3 with like under 10 OBL? Would it make more sense to get more of the PR3 type instead of the PR6 or it looks more natural to use both?

Also as far .edu blog comments many of them are nofollow even if they have PR(2-4). Are these still effective to get even when they are nofollow, but still have PR and low OBL?

Thanks

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ttomp13 15 years ago

Are you guys STILL tripping about this?

It's time to cut your losses and move on.

Look, my earnings dropped from $600 to $200 a month. It sucks ass... But
sitting here trying to figure out what happened isn't going to change anything.

If your site got hit, it's time to create a new one that actually abides by
Google's Quality Guidelines.

And don't spit any bull **** my way...

If you were hit, you were doing something Google didn't like.

So

- Make a new site.
- Be sure it's a topic you really enjoy.
- Be sure it's a site that can eventually go viral.
- Be unique and do something great.
- Use Youtube.
- Use Twitter.
- Use Facebook.

Don't rely solely on Google.

I talked to a few of my fitness buddies who blog, and they don't even know
what Panda is... Why? Because they have never tried to game Google.

Stop whining and move forward.

Sitting and waiting is the WORST thing you can do!

Time to develop a new gameplan, folks.
- Thanks
- 2 replies
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- MaverickUK 15 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by ttomp13
  
  Are you guys STILL tripping about this?
  
  It's time to cut your losses and move on.
  
  That's by far the stupidest advice I've seen in a while. To tell people to cut their losses really isn't a good suggestion to make, not when getting your site back after being hit by Panda is relatively easy in many cases.
  
  If your site got hit, it's time to create a new one that actually abides by
  Google's Quality Guidelines.
  
  If you were hit, you were doing something Google didn't like.
  
  Lol. So you're basically saying that the Gooogle algorithm isn't susceptible to error? It's a robot, so to speak, even these can make the wrong calls believe it or not.
  
  Don't rely solely on Google.
  
  And why not? If your website (as stated by you) doesn't go against the Google Quality Guidelines then what is there to worry about? You have contradicted yourself here, in one hand saying that Google won't penalise your site unless it fails to pass the Google Quality Guidelines, yet on the other hand you say don't rely soles on Google.
  
  Make your mind up!
  
  Thanks
  
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- remodeler 15 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by ttomp13
  
  Are you guys STILL tripping about this?
  
  It's time to cut your losses and move on.
  
  Look, my earnings dropped from $600 to $200 a month. [/B]
  
  Thanks for the great advice. So I guess that for one of the sites I have that went from $9000 to $3000 a month, I should just "cut my losses and move on". That's a great way to run a business isn't it? Don't try to figure out what is/has happened, just close up shop and start a new one. Who cares about the time and money you've invested, just start a new one.
  
  Have you also considered that perhaps some higher quality sites were unintentionally hit with this update? I can only speak for myself, but not everyone who was hit was somehow "gaming" google with their business.
  
  It's easy to make statements like that when you're only talking about a couple hundred dollars. Thankfully, I've not acted on your cut your losses advice the past month and instead focused on a positive way forward. I will never quit on a site that has proven remotely successful.
  
  [ 1 ] Thanks
  
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clr06160

15 years ago

Panda kicked all my sites down and put my income at a quarter of what it used to be. So, Google is definitely pandering to the big boys as these big corporate sites beat me with one paragragh and I have 50-100 unique articles on the same subject. I used to be #1, but now gone or on the first page bottom. Google is going to make enough people angry that they won't stay #1 forever. Anyway, got to keep keeping on. what else can you do.

Thanks

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peterlaz

15 years ago

One of my site has been experiencing about 80% drop in the traffic since Oct 12. I added new posts but does not seem to be indexed by Google . After monitoring the site for 2 weeks I filed a reconsideration. The reply is appended below. What does the reply mean and what happens next. Anyone with similar experience care to comment? Thanks

Reconsideration request for http://www.XXXXXX.com/: No manual spam actions found.

We received a request from a site owner to reconsider http://www.XXXXXX.com/ for compliance with Google's Webmaster Guidelines.

We reviewed your site and found no manual actions by the webspam team that might affect your site's ranking in Google. There's no need to file a reconsideration request for your site, because any ranking issues you may be experiencing are not related to a manual action taken by the webspam team.

Of course, there may be other issues with your site that affect your site's ranking. Google's computers determine the order of our search results using a series of formulas known as algorithms. We make hundreds of changes to our search algorithms each year, and we employ more than 200 different signals when ranking pages. As our algorithms change and as the web (including your site) changes, some fluctuation in ranking can happen as we make updates to present the best results to our users.

If you've experienced a change in ranking which you suspect may be more than a simple algorithm change, there are other things you may want to investigate as possible causes, such as a major change to your site's content, content management system, or server architecture. For example, a site may not rank well if your server stops serving pages to Googlebot, or if you've changed the URLs for a large portion of your site's pages. This article has a list of other potential reasons your site may not be doing well in search.

If you're still unable to resolve your issue, please see our Webmaster Help Forum for support.

Sincerely,

Google Search Quality Team

Thanks
2 replies

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Ben S

15 years ago

It is the standard reply that everyone gets when they file for reconsideration and the reason has nothing to do with spam.

Then you get the deliberately open-ended and vague instructions on how to possibly rectify the issue and then fobbed off to the webmaster forum.

Just hang tight and keep doing what you are doing.

[ 1 ] Thanks
1 reply

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Chris Sweeney

15 years ago

Originally Posted by mrtrance

What is your take on blog comments from PR 3-6 pages with low OBL (50 or less)? Are those good to get and will help to move sites up the SERPs?

Yeah they're just as good as any other PR link, but they're either really hard to find with low OBLs, or the ones that do have low OBLs are usually moderated and won't be approved.

Thanks
2 replies

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cagliostro 15 years ago

One thing i'm sure by now after the "Panda" is that junk backlinks have no power (devaluated) for our website and we have been pushed from 3-4rd page to 8+ page for several keywords.

No punish, just no value backlinks. So no more Fiverr backlinks for us. Back to manual backlinks from related pages.
- Thanks
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thedog

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Chris Sweeney

Yeah they're just as good as any other PR link, but they're either really hard to find with low OBLs, or the ones that do have low OBLs are usually moderated and won't be approved.

I found a load of pr4-pr5 .edu, dofollow domains... with low obl.

There's around 4 sites... some pages have low pr.

I've a list of around 15 of them.

Is it bad to keep posting on these?

I've 4 different sites I'm currently using on these sites.

Thanks
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mrtrance

15 years ago

Originally Posted by thedog

I found a load of pr4-pr5 .edu, dofollow domains... with low obl.

There's around 4 sites... some pages have low pr.

I've a list of around 15 of them.

Is it bad to keep posting on these?

I've 4 different sites I'm currently using on these sites.

Have you seen any big movement in the SERPs for your sites when using these links? When you say low OBL on these pages how many is low?

Thanks
1 reply

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TheFBGuy

15 years ago

Forgot to share this, so here it is, how my sites starting shooting to the top (not everything, but this WILL help you

):

Step 1:

Spend 1 week, create 20... yes 20 web 2.0 properties and populate them with unique and relevant articles, and make sure they are READABLE, otherwise some of these web 2.0 sites may delete your web 2.0 site. Sprinkle your money site/links within the articles on these web 2.0 properties with your anchor text creating what Google loves "contextual backlinks".

You can use automated tools to do this, but you risk your accounts being deleted...

Step 2:

Head on over to socialadr.com follow their instructions and submit all your web 2.0 mini websites. That's it.

A lot of work initially... i know lol, but your site will shoot to the top without you lifting a finger again as far as backlinks are concerned for that site. No pain, no gain.

EDIT: 20 DOFOLLOW web 2.0 properties

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Dellco

15 years ago

Originally Posted by TheFBGuy

Forget to share this, so here it is, how my sites starting shooting to the top (not everything, but this WILL help you

):

Step 1:

Spend 1 week, create 20... yes 20 web 2.0 properties and populate them with unique and relevant articles, and make sure they are READABLE, otherwise some of these web 2.0 sites may delete your web 2.0 site. Sprinkle your money site/links within the articles on these web 2.0 properties creating what Google loves "contextual backlinks".

You can use automated tools to do this, but you risk your accounts being deleted...

Step 2:

Head on over to socialadr.com follow their instructions and submit all your web 2.0 mini websites. That's it.

A lot of work initially... i know lol, but your site will shoot to the top without you lifting a finger again as far as backlinks are concerned for that site. No pain, no grain.

EDIT: 20 DOFOLLOW web 2.0 properties

What are these 20 DoFollow web 2.0 properties if you could list them down? There are very few good ones that are actually DoFollow.

Thanks
1 reply

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TheFBGuy 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Dellco

What are these 20 DoFollow web 2.0 properties if you could list them down? There are very few good ones that are actually DoFollow.

Sure. 1... 250 - 400 word READABLE article for each of these.

Google Love <3 <3 <3

blogspot.com
typepad.com
wordpress.com
tumblr.com
posterous.com
sites.google.com
weebly.com
squidoo.com
freewebs.com

Others:

tripod.com
springnote.com
multiply.com
blog.com
webnode.com
yolasite.com
jimdo.com
hpage.com
ewebsite.com
gather.com
ucoz.com

All are DO FOLLOW.

Yes, they will have no PR initially of course, but you have a stable powerful link base, with each mini site becoming powerful, thanks to socialadr.com... you will gain PR over time. Real humans posting your links to their social bookmarks... really powerful.

Again, a lot of work, but Google will love you <3 <3 <3 for this.

Blog comment on a few EDU/GOV or other high PR low OBL sites as well, and you are golden.
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mrtrance

15 years ago

Originally Posted by TheFBGuy

Forgot to share this, so here it is, how my sites starting shooting to the top (not everything, but this WILL help you

):

Step 1:

Spend 1 week, create 20... yes 20 web 2.0 properties and populate them with unique and relevant articles, and make sure they are READABLE, otherwise some of these web 2.0 sites may delete your web 2.0 site. Sprinkle your money site/links within the articles on these web 2.0 properties with your anchor text creating what Google loves "contextual backlinks".

You can use automated tools to do this, but you risk your accounts being deleted...

Step 2:

Head on over to socialadr.com follow their instructions and submit all your web 2.0 mini websites. That's it.

A lot of work initially... i know lol, but your site will shoot to the top without you lifting a finger again as far as backlinks are concerned for that site. No pain, no gain.

EDIT: 20 DOFOLLOW web 2.0 properties

So setup 20 of these with just 1 post and have anchor text with your keyword in the content? Does it matter if I use 1 manually spinned article for all of these sites or would we need to have 20 unique posts for each site?

Thanks
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TheFBGuy

15 years ago

Originally Posted by mrtrance

So setup 20 of these with just 1 post and have anchor text with your keyword in the content? Does it matter if I use 1 manually spinned article for all of these sites or would we need to have 20 unique posts for each site?

No, each post has to be unique and readable. A quick 250 word low quality unique article is easy to write, add a youtube video/picture, and you are done. No more than 1 hour of your time.

This is a very powerful method done the right way, if you are one of the people who post the same 1 article to 20 sites, you are using this method wrong. The way I have outlined is how it's done. If you want to post 1 article and spam the web, you might as well use software like SENuke, risk half of them being deleted or not being indexed.

90% of my mini sites have not only been in indexed, but ranking. Google perceives them as important, this is what you want... just one of these links is more powerful than say 25 blog comments a day

Edit: (vary between 2 - 3 anchor texts)

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mrtrance

15 years ago

Originally Posted by TheFBGuy

No, each post has to be unique and readable. A quick 250 word low quality unique article is easy to write, add a youtube video/picture, and you are done. No more than 1 hour of your time.

This is a very powerful method done the right way, if you are one of the people who post the same 1 article to 20 sites, you are using this method wrong. The way I have outlined is how it's done. If you want to post 1 article and spam the web, you might as well use software like SENuke, risk half of them being deleted or not being indexed.

90% of my mini sites have not only been in indexed, but ranking. Google perceives them as important, this is what you want... just one of these links is more powerful than say 25 blog comments a day

Edit: (vary between 2 - 3 anchor texts)

So should we setup these 20 sites sort of our own mini blog network and keep posting to them every time we want to promote a url from our money site? So if I want to rank the homepage or an internal page of a money site then each time do 20 posts across the 20 blogs with a link pointing to that page/url and submit the new blog url thru socialadr? Do you do any other backlinks or promotion to these 20 blogs besides submitting to socialadr.com?

So we reuse this same 20 blogs for every niche we have and make a new post instead of constantly make a new set of 20 blogs for each money site? Is that how you are doing it?

Thanks
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TheFBGuy

15 years ago

Originally Posted by mrtrance

So should we setup these 20 sites sort of our own mini blog network and keep posting to them every time we want to promote a url from our money site? So if I want to rank the homepage or an internal page of a money site then each time do 20 posts across the 20 blogs with a link pointing to that page/url and submit the new blog url thru socialadr? Do you do any other backlinks or promotion to these 20 blogs besides submitting to socialadr.com?

So we reuse this same 20 blogs for every niche we have and make a new post instead of constantly make a new set of 20 blogs for each money site? Is that how you are doing it?

20 web 2.0 sites is not a rule, it can be any number you wish depending on your needs or strength of your competition.

The web 2.0 properties are to be created for each NEW individual money site, yes. They act as what Amit Singhal calls "little voices", vouching for your money/main site to the Search Engines, and the way I have showed you, with time these "little voices" grow louder. Yes in a sense they are your own mini blog network.

HOWEVER...

If you also dont want to keep creating new web 2.0's for your money sites, then I suggest creating some WordPress sites on FREE hosting, which contain NO ADS:

Step 1: Get FREE hosting with any of the sites below or all of them.

besthostingpro.com
1freehosting.com
000webhost.com
uhostall DOT tk
2freehosting.com
byethost.com

Step 2: Sign up, etc.. get a generic name, e.g: allabouttheweb.besthostingpro.com (they even let you host your own domains )

Step 3: Install WordPress

Step 4: Now you have a fully functional WordPress site just like your main money site.

Step 5: Feel free to install ANY plugins you'd like, and configure everything.
(research the plug in: Web Traffic Genius. If you can't find it, PM me)

Step 6: Create categories specific to any money site you own.

Step 7: Done

Now you are free to reuse these and post any content you want to the specified categories instead of creating new web 2.0's for each new site. You also have a bit more control than the web 2.0 sites.

... and there you have it, your own mini fully functional WordPress sites/mini powerful blog network.

An alternative to socialadr.com is socialmonkee.com

Disclaimer: Not responsible if one of your free hosted WordPress site's outranks one of your main pages/sites on your paid hosting

Implement, take action and make it happen. These actions have been responsible for my .INFO Adsense site to rise to the top.

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DireStraits

15 years ago

Originally Posted by TheFBGuy

No, each post has to be unique and readable. A quick 250 word low quality unique article is easy to write, add a youtube video/picture, and you are done. No more than 1 hour of your time.

This is a very powerful method done the right way, if you are one of the people who post the same 1 article to 20 sites, you are using this method wrong. The way I have outlined is how it's done. If you want to post 1 article and spam the web, you might as well use software like SENuke, risk half of them being deleted or not being indexed.

90% of my mini sites have not only been in indexed, but ranking. Google perceives them as important, this is what you want... just one of these links is more powerful than say 25 blog comments a day

Edit: (vary between 2 - 3 anchor texts)

Wait, wait, wait.

You're alleging, then, that a person who syndicates long, informative, high-quality articles to multiple sites is necessarily "spamming the web", whereas he who submits - by your own confession - short, low-quality tripe isn't, so long they're unique?

Nonsense.

Since you mention it, though, I can tell you that the majority of my sites' pages containing syndicated (non-unique) content are not only indexed but also ranking highly, and many (most!) of the backlinks from which they do so come from those subsequent, syndicated copies!

I guess that craps all over the idea that syndicated content isn't worth a damn for backlinks, or that it can't rank, or that it'll get you penalised.

Also, backlinks from blog comments can very powerful if they're from context-relevant, high-PR pages on which there isn't already a zillion other OBLs. Manage that and you'll most likely find they (along with backlinks from syndicated articles published on relevant sites) absolutely wipe the floor with those from generic, so-called "web 2.0" sites.

Thanks
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TheFBGuy

15 years ago

Originally Posted by DireStraits

Wait, wait, wait.

You're alleging, then, that a person who syndicates long, informative, high-quality articles to multiple sites is necessarily "spamming the web", whereas he who submits - by your own confession - short, low-quality tripe isn't, so long they're unique?

Nonsense.

Since you mention it, though, I can tell you that the majority of my sites' pages containing syndicated (non-unique) content are not only indexed but also ranking highly, and many (most!) of the backlinks from which they do so come from those subsequent, syndicated copies!

I guess that craps all over the idea that syndicated content isn't worth a damn for backlinks, or that it can't rank, or that it'll get you penalised.

Also, backlinks from blog comments can very powerful if they're from context-relevant, high-PR pages on which there isn't already a zillion other OBLs. Manage that and you'll most likely find they (along with backlinks from syndicated articles published on relevant sites) absolutely wipe the floor with those from generic, so-called "web 2.0" sites.

...

LOL.

Not "alleging" anything, therefore didn't bother reading the rest of your post. Since you assumed I made allegations, it's safe to say everything else you said in response to me are more assumptions.

If you needed clarification, you could have simply asked sir.

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DireStraits

15 years ago

Originally Posted by TheFBGuy

...

LOL.

Not "alleging" anything, therefore didn't bother reading the rest of your post. Since you assumed I made allegations, it's safe to say everything else you said in response to me are more assumptions.

If you needed clarification, you could have simply asked sir.

Apologies if I sounded brash.

Anyway, this could turn into a discussion of semantics, but whether I should've used the word "alleging" or "implying" or "connoting" or whatever really makes little difference: it seems to me that the crux of your comment was pretty clear-cut.

There are an awful lot of baseless myths pervading not just the confines of this forum but the internet marketing world as a whole, and many of the most baffling involve SEO, one way or another. The problem with SEO stuff is that it's difficult to prove either way, so common sense coupled with consensus of opinion (among those without any obvious direct financial incentive to perpetuate myths for their own selfish gain) goes quite a long way.

Duplicate content penalties, link-juice bonuses for backlinks attached to spun/unique content, "Sandboxes", mysterious discrepancies between the "rankability" of different gTLDs, intrinsical link-juice bonuses from backlinks from .gov and .edu domains, etc., etc., etc. The list of "bafflements" goes on and on. It's literally endless, and endlessly exasperating.

Every day these myths are parroted by those either with a malicious intent or the innocently naïve. Whatever the "motive", the result is the same: they are immensely damaging and collectively they're responsible not only for wasting vast amounts of people's valuable time, but often - rather disconcertingly - misguiding people down an expressway to absolute failure.

My point, for anyone interested, is simple: much of all online SEO-related information is shortsighted and misguided, wholly outdated, or flat-out corrupt. Be careful to whom you listen, and if you want a more informed point of view, consider investing in an up-to-date book on the subject from an orthodox publisher that has a good reputation to uphold and won't knowingly print any gibberjabber from any old Tom, Dick or Harry, or allow their books' information to be skewed by the blatant self-interest of their authors.

Thanks

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Love2Blog

15 years ago

Originally Posted by peterlaz

One of my site has been experiencing about 80% drop in the traffic since Oct 12. I added new posts but does not seem to be indexed by Google . After monitoring the site for 2 weeks I filed a reconsideration. The reply is appended below. What does the reply mean and what happens next. Anyone with similar experience care to comment? Thanks

Reconsideration request for http://www.XXXXXX.com/: No manual spam actions found.

We received a request from a site owner to reconsider http://www.XXXXXX.com/ for compliance with Google's Webmaster Guidelines.

We reviewed your site and found no manual actions by the webspam team that might affect your site's ranking in Google. There's no need to file a reconsideration request for your site, because any ranking issues you may be experiencing are not related to a manual action taken by the webspam team.

Of course, there may be other issues with your site that affect your site's ranking. Google's computers determine the order of our search results using a series of formulas known as algorithms. We make hundreds of changes to our search algorithms each year, and we employ more than 200 different signals when ranking pages. As our algorithms change and as the web (including your site) changes, some fluctuation in ranking can happen as we make updates to present the best results to our users.

If you've experienced a change in ranking which you suspect may be more than a simple algorithm change, there are other things you may want to investigate as possible causes, such as a major change to your site's content, content management system, or server architecture. For example, a site may not rank well if your server stops serving pages to Googlebot, or if you've changed the URLs for a large portion of your site's pages. This article has a list of other potential reasons your site may not be doing well in search.

If you're still unable to resolve your issue, please see our Webmaster Help Forum for support.

Sincerely,

Google Search Quality Team

Google is telling you that your site is not penalized and did not fail a manual inspection by a human. Your rankings are falling purely based on automatic filters from the Google algorithm, this could mean low quality links, a new site without trust, low quality content, bad on site seo, slow loading and performance problems and other such issues.

Add more unique high quality content, check your on site SEO and do internal linking and get better quality links to your site, that is always the best remedy for falling rankings.

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mbarty2010

15 years ago

Here are some sure shot tips for ranking higher (I use these methods);

1) Each post should have atleast 1200 to 1500 words (proper English without spelling and grammatical mistakes)

2) Use a single page for targetting multiple keywords which convey the same intent. Don't create multiple pages for just the sake of targetting these additional long tail keywords. For example:

how to lose weight and how to lose weight fast and lose weight should be targetted in the same page and not in different pages.

3) Don't keep writing about the same keyword again and again in scores of pages. They just don't help. Broaden your niche and write about related topics.

For example, instead of writing 50 pages about how to lose weight, start including related content like diet & fitness, body building etc.

4) Remove unecessary links in your Blogroll and footers that point to external websites.

5) Use rel="nofollow" for all external website links.

6) Use atleast one image in each blog post. Image file name should have the blog title and so should the alt text of the image.

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Gametimeson

15 years ago

Anyone familiar with Google places noticing a difference in the activity of this section?

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chrome

15 years ago

I have over 100 automated blogs which were created early in 2011 most were created in January just before Panda unleashed its mayhem. However, all blogs have continued to rise in ranks over the last 10 months and now have several thousand first page rankings.

Traffic has increased by a minimum of 12% month over month.

I attribute the success of these sites to two things. The quality of the automated content and the scheduling of certain types of links at certain times of the first two months of the sites inception. All links were done through Fiverr providers and the content was generated through Content Revenge (disclaimer...I own Content Revenge).

However, this method was created after several years of playing cat and mouse with Google and I have to say that Panda is indeed rewarding this method and our sites.

Thanks
1 reply

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Chris Sweeney

15 years ago

Originally Posted by thedog

I found a load of pr4-pr5 .edu, dofollow domains... with low obl.

There's around 4 sites... some pages have low pr.

I've a list of around 15 of them.

Is it bad to keep posting on these?

I've 4 different sites I'm currently using on these sites.

It's not bad, but I wouldn't say you'd get any real benefit if you post the same link on the same page more than once. You can post your link on two different pages on the same domain, but you still won't get full benefit either, since the link is coming from the same IP (you'll still benefit from those links though, just not as much as a link of same PR & OBL & trustrank etc. as a page on a different domain/IP. I'd still say go for it.

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commoditytrainer

15 years ago

That is the key is adding the Youtube video, I would even use a picture unless the property will not let you or you they want you to pay to upload the video. Google's update pretty much is picking on new domains. We have noticed aged domains are very easy to rank and new domains are more difficult, but obviously possible.

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becanada

15 years ago

The july panda update penalized sites linking to OTHER sites penalized in the july panda update - IE ezinearticles.com got wacked ; so did my ranking [was #3 in "internet marketing" worldwide] ; in oct ezine's got better; so did mine.

I have an RSS based article search engine rewriter that feeds off of ezine's and others ; re-builds the material/summary and creates a listing 4 times per day --- talk about new content - over 50,000 article summaries in 75 different channels updating every 6 hours - all with internet marketing type content.

Ok - maybe over did it?

However- and here is the BIG ONE - Google also employs real people to review sites from time to time - both line - if you have value; provide something that adds to the web, real content [or at least REALLY READABLE] ; you will be fine...

And of course link your ass off ; on the highest PR sites you can like a mad man!
Get on a high PR - .gov or .edu - LINKGASM.
FYI ; Warriors is PR 5.
D

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sciaq

15 years ago

Hi guys, just wondering if any of you have any clue whats going on with my site:

I was ranking 6th for my money keyword with my domain, after the October update rankings completely disappeared. Did a bit of tweaking and my domain is not in the top 500 but the blog post of the article im using as my front page for my domain is ranking 35th, the article its self has 0 back links with the domain having 300+

Any ideas whats up? is just my homepage banned?

Thanks

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bummed.out

15 years ago

This morning, I was sh*t upon by Google again. My one site that "survived" the Oct. Panda update dropped from spot 2 to spot 6. Result? Almost no traffic. Total day's revenue thus far: Less than 3 dollars. Amazing, the difference between position 2 and 6, isn't it?

I put a fair bit of work into my sites, for what they are - small, niche sites - I don't think it's that my content sucks; I'm a good writer...but I've waited long enough to see if things "bounce back". Time for more quality linking than what worked before.

Thanks

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eguy

15 years ago

I got dropped almost out of top 10. Not sure what happening. But my site was having down time often thanks to my host Dreamhost (a top worst host on the Internet). I think down time has an effect these days.

Thanks
1 reply

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razorhound

15 years ago

Originally Posted by eguy

I got dropped almost out of top 10. Not sure what happening. But my site was having down time often thanks to my host Dreamhost (a top worst host on the Internet). I think down time has an effect these days.

Uptime is always important. Time to join hostgator I guess.

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SuzanneH

15 years ago

Here's a great video (with a written transcript) from seomoz.org on their view of Panda, what it does and what people can do about it:

How Google's Panda Update Changed SEO Best Practices Forever - Whiteboard Friday | SEOmoz

Suzanne

Thanks
2 replies

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dennis1212 15 years ago

WOW- quiet on the panda thread................hehehe

everyone must be rebuilding and rethinking their sites.

I got hit hard on the 14th and it was really the first time I was ever hit... it is just amazing the crap thats getting above everyone

just got my PR lowered by -1- across the board .......bout 10 pr4's became 3's, 20 pr2's became pr1 etc.

well time to get back to revamping, cleaning up and redesigning my 900 page monster; lol

hope all is good with everyone!!!

Dennis
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PicktownChris

15 years ago

Wow, thanks for sharing that video.. I think that answers the question completely... plus it supports a lot of my theory about bounce rate etc..

Originally Posted by SuzanneH

Here's a great video (with a written transcript) from seomoz.org on their view of Panda, what it does and what people can do about it:

How Google's Panda Update Changed SEO Best Practices Forever - Whiteboard Friday | SEOmoz

Suzanne

Thanks

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SuzanneH

15 years ago

@Chris: My only issue with bounce rate is that a high bounce rate doesn't necessarily means it's a bad page. I have particular calculator that ranks #1 in Google SERPs. The bounce rate is high because people come in, use it and then go about their lives. They just needed that one particular calculation, at that moment in time. However, the % of return visitors to that page is very high compared to my other pages.

From what I understand, Google does check bounce in the sense when a user clicks a link in Google search results and then bounces back to the search results and clicks another link because the first link didn't give them what they wanted. And now Google is going a step further by asking you if you want to block the website you just bounced out of.

@Dennis: Just wait till the next Panda update! I'm sure they'll be another thread started! :-) So far, my site has *not* been effected by Panda (in a negative way), but I've been following threads here and in Google's Webmaster Tools forum. You just never now if/when you're going to be hit. I've fixed up a few things on my site, but right now I'm in a "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" mode.

Suzanne

Thanks
1 reply

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dennis1212 15 years ago

@suzanne - the problem I too have with bounce rate theory is that the front end of my website is html and services an offline service need. It is extremely common and natural for a potential client in my industry to bounce in and out of 5 sites in order to grab a few numbers to call, or to form an opinion and return to the few better sites to dig deeper. 90% just start calling the numbers they scraped and are in a hurry, so they make their decision on that.

In fact a manual review might not even realize which site is the best without understanding the industry and spending 20 minutes in my site and competitor sites.

Feedback from my clients have been phenominal as far as it is clearly the best site they looked over. I tend to get the smarter and more savvy clients and the idiots just hire anybody based on price. - not how long they been in business or how many credentials they carry.

currently I have a 1 page emd adsense at the top of one of the toughest most competitive terms...it has around 8 generic backlinks and no social,
then comes a generic directory, then 2 business less than a year old - my site is 10 years old.

granted things have gotten dusty over the years and it is harder to clean up a 1000 page site. Makes me wanna go get a couple emd's and rank 1 since the hard, expensive and honest way is letting me down at the moment.
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xtortionx50

15 years ago

Google tends to change there policies frequently. I had my adwords account disabled from which I believe due to low grade keywords I was trying to use. I'm still not sure why, So Im not surprised that they are cracking down harder on sites now.

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Lares

15 years ago

hey guys.

Did anyone have any luck recovering inner pages that got hit on October 13/14th?

Its really pissing me off seeing facebook copy/paste notes outranking my unique content. 1 month passed and still same sh**** results.

1. Amazon
2. Random authority site - duplicate content
3. Facebook notes - duplicate content
4. Facebook notes - duplicate content
5. Facebook notes - duplicate content
6. My inner page - unique content - i used to be 2nd

I guess it would be much easier to just make those duplicate facebook notes. You make them faster, you don't need to do any SEO and they rank higher anyway.

Thanks
3 replies

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theebookcavern 15 years ago

I've not managed to recover from this update yet. In fact my traffic dropped WOW between October 14th and November 13th. It's only been the last couple of days where it has actually increased. It's up about 5% WOW which is a start but still a long way to go before it reaches pre-October 14th levels.

On the topic of Facebook notes I have heard good things from quite a few people. Could you not create a unique Facebook note based around the topic of your webpage that targets the same keyword and then include a few links within the Facebook note back to your webpage?

They don't take long to create so worst case scenario you will lose an hour of your time and best case scenario you will be able to bump 1 of the other Facebook notes out of the top 5 and hopefully get some clicks back to your website from the note.

Tom
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wolfmmiii

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Lares

hey guys.

Did anyone have any luck recovering inner pages that got hit on October 13/14th?

Its really pissing me off seeing facebook copy/paste notes outranking my unique content. 1 month passed and still same sh**** results.

1. Amazon
2. Random authority site - duplicate content
3. Facebook notes - duplicate content
4. Facebook notes - duplicate content
5. Facebook notes - duplicate content
6. My inner page - unique content - i used to be 2nd

I guess it would be much easier to just make those duplicate facebook notes. You make them faster, you don't need to do any SEO and they rank higher anyway.

I'm seeing lots of this too. I really don't want to resort to ranking facebook notes but current ROI really dictates that I do.

Thanks
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ttomp13 15 years ago

To have a business that will bring you wealth and success for a lifetime, you
have to adapt to the cards that you have been dealt.

By writing my post, I knew that I was going to receive negative feedback...
Your income and business just got hit... BIG TIME...

Who wouldn't be upset?

I don't have any problem with you working to get your traffic back. But at
some point, it is a smarter move to cut your losses, and move on.

I know that it is hard to hear, because you have probably put a lot of work
into your business, but...

What if your traffic and income doesn't return?

Then you have just spent all of that time trying to get things back to the way
they were, when you could have developed a new, and more stable way of
making money online.

Adaption at the right time will bring you success.

If you are currently using a strategy, getting traffic back, and seeing positive
results, by all means, keep at it.

Otherwise, move on.

If you would like to rely solely on Google for traffic, go for it. Just know that
this isn't the smartest business decision.

Want my advice?

Diversify your portfolio.

Even if you do abide by Google's guidelines, a number of things can occur,
and cause you to lose traffic.

The more diverse your traffic sources, the more stable your business will be
in the future.

**********

You think multimillionaires just have 1 source of income?

**************

The above article isn't pointed directly at anyone on here. Actually, the
article is posted at EVERYONE here.

Take it for what it is.

Don't like it?

Like it?

I don't care.

It's not my business.

It's yours.

**************

Don't bother replying to me, guys.

I just thought I would look into this thread, and sure enough, I was so
disappointed when I saw that many people were still sitting and waiting
for their traffic to return.

I had to do something, because many people here are doing nothing.

I can't just let people sit here, and wait for things to get better.

If you have managed to get your traffic back up to where it was prior
to Panda 2.5.2, that's great!

If your traffic is still low, then please move on. Everything is out of your
control at this point... So take control by starting fresh, and with a new
strategy involving multiple traffic sources.

Alright, guys.

I have already spent more than enough time here... Which is why I don't
post on here too often.

If I can just reach out to ONE person on this forum, and allow them to
better themselves and their business through my words, I have completed
my job here.

Taylor Thompson
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IMKid 15 years ago

yup I'm seeing a lot of these too in my niches
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mrkcans

15 years ago

Yes, very much affected. My sites and my clients sites suffered because of that Panda

. Anyway, we can do nothing about it.

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chrislangley

15 years ago

I think Google has always rewarded aged sites, it would make sense for them to stick with those that have been around for sometime rather than an upstart

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Iriss

15 years ago

It's interesting how when you call something a Panda, it is a cute little innocent creature.

What would you think of this "Panda" upgrade if they never chose to name it a cute name?

You'd be thinking that Google changes algorithm to sort out thousands of wrongfully linked sites. Hmm, that cant be good for reputation.

Thanks

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SuzanneH

15 years ago

From what I've read, the Panda update is named after a Google employee by the name of Navneet Panda.

Suzanne

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HorseStall

15 years ago

It seems affiliate sites were hit hard by Panda. It is frustrating, because I have some sites that have great content but are large, and I think to some extent the shear size of the sites are hurting the entire site.

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delboy2010

15 years ago

I have always stated that as long as you write unique content on your blog and bookmark it as you go along, and continue to create a collection of varied links REGUARLY.