Not Penguin- Google gets ready to go after links spam and TIERED LINK BUILDING -THIS SUMMER

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  • SEO
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Watched a video from Cutts today that really gives a forecast of what to expect. Usual Penguin stuff but at the 3:15 mark Cutt talks about going "upstream" to deny the value to link spammers.

I'm pretty sure that could only refer to tiered link building - the present rage among link builders. Pretty much would wipe out one of the few remaining values the most popular automation tools like MS, GSA, UD, Licorne and senuke have. Only underlines that whatever becomes popular among Imers and backlinkers WILL be targeted by Google. Expected but looks like it might be a bit sooner than I expected.

OH and forums where people share link spam package techniques get a special mention to be affected. By summer he indicates people who follow that advice are likely to see problems

#building #google #hats #hold #link #links #ready #spam #tiered #year
  • Profile picture of the author PerformanceMan
    I can feel it in my bones.

    Lucky for me (and you) that we've both been building 'high PR' links all year.

    People who have been banking on tiers are in deep doo doo. First Squidoo, and now this. You can be sure this is the real target of Penguin 2.0.
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  • Profile picture of the author nest28
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    • Profile picture of the author options
      Surely they are fighting a loosing battle. There will always be ways to game the system. You just adapt
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
        Originally Posted by options View Post

        Surely they are fighting a loosing battle. There will always be ways to game the system. You just adapt

        Sure but not necessarily ways where you can buy some software and push some buttons to rank. They don't have to cut out every way to game the system (notice theres nothing in these drumbeats of war about extinguishing all paid links). They just have to make it difficult enough that more people give up (and plenty did at P1) or decide what works takes so much time and money they will go more whitehat.
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        • Profile picture of the author options
          Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

          Sure but not necessarily ways where you can buy some software and push some buttons to rank. They don't have to cut out every way to game the system (notice theres nothing in these drumbeats of war about extinguishing all paid links). They just have to make it difficult enough that more people give up (and plenty did at P1) or decide what works takes so much time and money they will go more whitehat.
          True, but what is white hat nowadays ? every update they do just makes it easier to destroy your competition.
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          • Profile picture of the author nest28
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            • Profile picture of the author options
              Originally Posted by nest28 View Post

              No offense but I wouldn't want to be anyone's competition here. I mean what, my EMD 10 page site vs yours lol. These updates are targeted to site that should't be there in the first place.


              10 years from now all my favorite sites will still be right where there at and the only ones that will be gone were the crappy ones. IMDB will still be here, so will Youtube, Ted Talks and many others.

              You can't destroy them, you can't perform negative SEO on them, only these corny cookie cutter sites, that are using Fiverr will be gone.


              Anyway I'm outta here before somebody call me a bitch or a$ for speaking my mind. Do what you want people, good luck.
              10 years from now.... More like 10 days from now nobody can say for sure what will happen to their site. No matter how much authority it has.
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      • Profile picture of the author nest28
        Originally Posted by options View Post

        Surely they are fighting a loosing battle. There will always be ways to game the system. You just adapt
        I just watched The Matrix, for some reason your comment reminds of the part when Neo says to Morpheus "you mean to tell me I can dodge bullets' and Morpheus says "when the time comes you won't have to".


        I feel the same way about marketers here who still insist on dodging bullets (Google updates) when if you create a great website the right way you wouldn't have to.
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        • Profile picture of the author paulgl
          They have been discounting blog spam...er comments...for awhile
          now. They have also morphed the nofollow tag to be a signal
          for possible spam. Warned people about that crap all along.

          People still go for low hanging fruit that is just rotten fruit.

          I have never changed my feeling on backlinks. I don't think
          google ever has either. Their updates are more of a
          tightening the noose, not making another noose.

          But this good stuff to discuss, so let's go!

          Is SEO dead? No. But those with a certain mindset who
          were just blind will maybe wake up with a slap in the face.

          I know I have never called "link builders" seo people. There
          has and IS a big difference.

          Sorry, I can't help but mention my latest squidoo rant, similar
          topic:
          http://www.warriorforum.com/adsense-...oo-update.html

          Paul
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          • Profile picture of the author HanifQ
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            • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
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        • Profile picture of the author options
          Originally Posted by nest28 View Post

          I just watched The Matrix, for some reason your comment reminds of the part when Neo says to Morpheus "you mean to tell me I can dodge bullets' and Morpheus says "when the time comes you won't have to".


          I feel the same way about marketers here who still insist on dodging bullets (Google updates) when if you create a great website the right way you wouldn't have to.



          I don't understand why people rather constantly worry about G updates because they know the sites they make are crap and the methods they use to get them to the top of the SERPs are unethical, by Google standards anyway.


          Edit: I'm not Anti-SEO, I mean if people were just trying to get traffic to this really fantastic site they just made I wouldn't have a problem with it, but if your using some crappy software or service from Fiverr or the warrior for hire section to rank a poorly made EMD than cry when it tanks from a G update, than that's when it idk, pisses me off to see people talking about Google did them wrong, when in fact it was them who did it to themselves.
          Couldn't agree more. I love creating sites that go viral and not relying on back linking or google.
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        • Originally Posted by nest28 View Post

          I just watched The Matrix, for some reason your comment reminds of the part when Neo says to Morpheus "you mean to tell me I can dodge bullets' and Morpheus says "when the time comes you won't have to".


          I feel the same way about marketers here who still insist on dodging bullets (Google updates) when if you create a great website the right way you wouldn't have to.
          Couldn't agree more. build it right and never hide from the light.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by PerformanceMan View Post

      I can feel it in my bones.

      Lucky for me (and you) that we've both been building 'high PR' links all year.
      I aint going to lie I was thinking of trying alot more of tiered link building but not the way people here do it. I pretty much chucked GSA after backing it when the developer pretty much indicated he was fine with the fact that his filters did not work as advertised. Its become just an extreme blasting tool when I thought it would hone in on sites with authority if the filters worked. I guess the only thing that stopped me from diving big into tiered backlinking was content. I draw the line at scraping other peoples content and spinning it. I just cannot personally justify thinking its not a form of theft. I do use some paid for content and rewrite it but for big time tier scraping is the accepted practice

      Originally Posted by nest28 View Post

      On a more serious note, exactly how much longer do you think it will be before all known methods of SEO are targeted?
      Can't happen while Google relies on links. Maybe after. Google will go after any pattern like building because they can distinguish platforms , quantity and mass techniques but how can you have an algo destroy paid links for example? I give a webmaster $20 bucks and he refers to me in his legitimate blog. Theres no way to monitor that as long as the site is well done and legit.

      I never hear link buyers who buy those kinds of links screaming at an algo update. But I aint going to lie just because I use SEO networks - They will be doing something sooner or later with aged domains as well. They just won't be able to do it retroactively (it will have to be at drop time or when the domain falls out the index) so better giddyup if you been intending to use that. After that the picking will be slim for effective link building.
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  • Profile picture of the author PerformanceMan
    Cutts mentions 'advertorials' are going be cracked down on. I assume guest posts fall under this category too.

    He also specifically mentions people 'hanging out' at 'Black Hat Forums' and buying 'packages' are going to be hurting. LOL.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
    We already have a Penguin thread so I won't go on about it but in the video he mentions P2 will do a much deeper job than the first. Can you imagine the crying in here even greater than the crying at penguin 1?

    Thing that makes this more than the usual we are going to get them stuff is Cutts is putting down a time table on P2 AND the tiered thing. No sense in him doing that and saying by simmer unless this is ready to roll.
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    • Profile picture of the author PerformanceMan
      Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

      We already have a Penguin thread so I won't go on about it but in the video he mentions P2 will do a much deeper job than the first. Can you imagine the crying in here even greater than the crying at penguin 1?

      Thing that makes this more than the usual we are going to get them stuff is Cutts is putting down a time table on P2 AND the tiered thing. No sense in him doing that and saying by simmer unless this is ready to roll.
      He's very specific in the video. He indicates an end to 'Black Hats' who 'hang around' forums by the end of this Summer.

      If people were smart, they would get their ass*s to Flippa and dump their sites before this updates!
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  • Profile picture of the author GGpaul
    Thank goodness. I can finally crack down on these so called "gurus" and call em out on how they build their links. And how arrogant they get by boasting about how much they make every freaking month. Easy marketing tactic that a bunch of newbies get caught up with.

    "Oh damn! He has a maserati? By using SENUKE?! I WANT TO LEARN FROM HIM!"
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  • Profile picture of the author smodha
    I don't think Google will penalize tiered backlinks/link pyramids. I suspect they will "water down" the effects of it like they did with the EMD update (which by the way still rank).

    You can still use the methods but they won't rank as quick as the old days.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by smodha View Post

      I don't think Google will penalize tiered backlinks/link pyramids. I suspect they will "water down" the effects of it like they did with the EMD update (which by the way still rank).

      Well thing is lets say EMDs still work in some serps. When has google ever did one change and been done? There is always a version 2.0. Plus they never said EMDs would not rank they just turned the effect off so that in any serp an emd can be beat pretty easily with a non emd.

      You can still use the methods but they won't rank as quick as the old days.
      whatever floats your boat man but I used to hear people say that about link spam straight to your money site not too long ago and that turned out to be totally false.
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      • Profile picture of the author smodha
        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        Well thing is lets say EMDs still work in some serps. When has google ever did one change and been done? There is always a version 2.0. Plus they never said EMDs would not rank they just turned the effect off so that in any serp an emd can be beat pretty easily with a non emd.
        I don't see how Google can ever "punish" EMDs. Surely all new sites start off as an EMD before they have built enough authority and trust.
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  • Profile picture of the author smodha
    I won't lie Mike, I've done very well with tiered backlinks. It's not something I would ever do with client sites but it's a perfect strategy for my EMDs (I stopped building these in 2013 but they still rank well).

    I'm not overly concerned to be honest. SEO has and always will be a dynamic industry. As long as you are happy to change, you'll be fine.

    I thought Matt's point about multiple SERPs not ranking from the same domain was quite interesting.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by smodha View Post

      I won't lie Mike, I've done very well with tiered backlinks. It's not something I would ever do with client sites but it's a perfect strategy for my EMDs (I stopped building these in 2013 but they still rank well).
      Lots of guys have. Like I said nearly dived into it myself but then I realized some issues with my network was causing things to stall. Didn't need more juice just needed to reorganize which was a long beast by itself.

      I thought Matt's point about multiple SERPs not ranking from the same domain was quite interesting.
      This video had tons of stuff in it. Probably the most i have gotten out of a Cutts video reading between the lines. No doubt.

      I don't see how Google can ever "punish" EMDs. Surely all new sites start off as an EMD before they have built enough authority and trust.
      Not sure what you point is there. Turn off the effect is entirely different than a "punishing". SO yes they can turn down the effect entirely so that you rank on other metrics. All the big brands would still continue to rank for their name EZ PZ,
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  • Profile picture of the author Backlinko
    I use tiered link building all the time...

    Links from .edu sites, high PR resource pages, and authority blogs have tiers that would make the average SENukex user cry tears of joy.
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    • Profile picture of the author online only
      Originally Posted by Backlinko View Post

      I use tiered link building all the time...

      Links from .edu sites, high PR resource pages, and authority blogs have tiers that would make the average SENukex user cry tears of joy.
      I liked the "cream" version more tbh
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  • Profile picture of the author GodMode52


    This one will end in tragedy. Anyway learn from penguin 1.0, diluite your damn anchors and don't over optimize your site. Penguin 1.0 was about over optimizing crap (off/on site) , same goes for the EMD update.
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  • Profile picture of the author smodha
    I predict Penguin 2.0 to be EPIC...

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  • Profile picture of the author dp40oz
    The lesson that should have been learned from P1 is if you're a backlink builder focus on quality across the board and throughout all tiers of link building. The GSA crowd will probably feel the harsh effects just like the Xrumer crowd has over the last few years. I feel those of us who put care into our link building and push quality over quantity will be rewarded as we were after P1. I just feel bad for those who didn't see the writing on the wall a year ago.
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    • Profile picture of the author nik0
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      Originally Posted by dp40oz View Post

      The lesson that should have been learned from P1 is if you're a backlink builder focus on quality across the board and throughout all tiers of link building. The GSA crowd will probably feel the harsh effects just like the Xrumer crowd has over the last few years. I feel those of us who put care into our link building and push quality over quantity will be rewarded as we were after P1. I just feel bad for those who didn't see the writing on the wall a year ago.
      People are always looking for short cuts, even when they can get the SEO 100% free they still try to reduce the other costs like domains and content to zero.

      Once people start to realize that it takes money to make money then they will change their strategies but instead most people will just call it quit.
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      • Profile picture of the author chanel26
        Content is king.
        Focus on creating valuable content and never use any blackhat tactic.
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        • Profile picture of the author dcary13
          Originally Posted by chanel26 View Post

          Content is king.
          Focus on creating valuable content and never use any blackhat tactic.
          Said from the guys with 3 link phrases about the same sell topic to 3 of his sites
          in his sig....
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        • Profile picture of the author Oranges
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  • Profile picture of the author Slin
    Xrumer guys are still ranking, I don't use it, but i've seen other sites succeed.

    It's the scrapebox boys that got punished, as someone pointed out google punishes you for the no follow links. So scrapebox spam has issues.

    I don't understand how you could target tiered link building. Especially if you vary the sites and anchor text. I guess thats why the google guys have a high paying job there, but it seems like it'd be something really hard to code into an algorithm. Maybe no follow link juice will fall down further or something, so you can't spam links towards the buffer sites or something.

    But like someone here mentioned, there will always be a system to game.
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    • Profile picture of the author smodha
      Originally Posted by Slin View Post

      Xrumer guys are still ranking, I don't use it, but i've seen other sites succeed.

      It's the scrapebox boys that got punished, as someone pointed out google punishes you for the no follow links. So scrapebox spam has issues.

      I don't understand how you could target tiered link building. Especially if you vary the sites and anchor text. I guess thats why the google guys have a high paying job there, but it seems like it'd be something really hard to code into an algorithm. Maybe no follow link juice will fall down further or something, so you can't spam links towards the buffer sites or something.

      But like someone here mentioned, there will always be a system to game.
      Most of my sites have a about a 60% ratio of nofollow links and I've never been punished.
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      • Profile picture of the author nik0
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        Originally Posted by smodha View Post

        Most of my sites have a about a 60% ratio of nofollow links and I've never been punished.
        Lol what kind of spam links do you build that you end up with 60% nofollow?

        My sites have a dofollow ratio of 100% on average and never been punished either.
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        • Profile picture of the author smodha
          Originally Posted by nik0 View Post

          Lol what kind of spam links do you build that you end up with 60% nofollow?

          My sites have a dofollow ratio of 100% on average and never been punished either.
          I use blog comments and wiki blasts at tier 2/3. Let's see how far "upstream" Captain Cutts decided to travel

          I think the whole dofollow vs nofollow argument is a bit of red herring. Nofollow links are not as powerful as dofollow but I don't see why Google would punish you for either/or.
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          • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
            Originally Posted by smodha View Post

            Most of my sites have a about a 60% ratio of nofollow links and I've never been punished.
            That's awful. 60%? So you obviously think that blog commenting is link building.

            I cannot think of any other way you could end up with that many nofollow links.
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            • Profile picture of the author smodha
              Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

              That's awful. 60%? So you obviously think that blog commenting is link building.

              I cannot think of any other way you could end up with that many nofollow links.
              It's a link building strategy. I'm not saying it's the best and I'm sure the purists will huff and puff about it - but it works. Blog comments and Wiki blasts are low quality and perfect for the third tier hence the high % of nofollow.

              I don't build tiered links for anything other than EMDs (my personal sites). For my clients, I buy links and do manual blog comments.

              It's all about what works for you.
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              • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
                Originally Posted by smodha View Post

                It's a link building strategy. I'm not saying it's the best and I'm sure the purists will huff and puff about it - but it works. Blog comments and Wiki blasts are low quality and perfect for the third tier hence the high % of nofollow.

                I don't build tiered links for anything other than EMDs (my personal sites). For my clients, I buy links and do manual blog comments.

                It's all about what works for you.
                I'm confused. If you are just using them for a third tier, then your main sites wouldn't have 60% of their links as nofollow.
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  • Profile picture of the author SEODollz
    MATT CUTTS said.... (everything in bold is mine, thought it would be helpful to break it up)

    Opening and Disclaimers

    Hey everybody, today's webmaster video is answering the question: "What should we expect in the next few months in terms of SEO for Google?" Okay, so, first off, we're taping this video in early May of 2013, so I'll give you a little bit of an idea about what to expect as far as what Google's working on in terms of the webspam team. In terms of what you should be working on, we try to make sure that is pretty constant and uniform. Try to make sure you make a great site that users love, that they'll want to tell their friends about, bookmark, come back to, visit over and over again, ya know, all the things that make a site compelling. We try to make sure that if that's your goal, we're aligned with that goal, and therefore, as long as you're working hard for users, we're working hard to try to show your high quality content to users as well. But at the same time, people are always curious about, OK, what should we expect coming down the pipe in terms of what kinds of things Google's working on. One of the reasons that we don't usually talk that much about the kinds of things we're working on is that the plans can change. Ya know, the timing can change, when we launch things can change. So take this with a grain of salt. This is, as of today, the things that look like they've gotten some approval or they look pretty promising. Okay, with all those kinds of disclaimers, let's talk a little bit about the sort of stuff that we're working on.

    Intro to Penguin 2.0

    We're relatively close to deploying the next generation of Penguin. Internally, we call it "Penguin 2.0″. And again, Penguin is a webspam change that's dedicated to try to find blackhat webspam and try to target and address that. So this one is a little more comprehensive than Penguin 1.0 and we expect it to go a little bit deeper and have a little bit more of an impact than the original version of Penguin.

    Topic: Paid Ads/Coverage/Links

    We've also been looking at advertorials that is sort of native advertising and those sorts of things that violate our quality guidelines. So again, if someone pays for coverage or pays for an ad or something like that, those ads should not flow PageRank. We've seen a few sites in the US and around the world that take money and then do link to websites and pass PageRank. So we'll be looking at some efforts to be a little bit stronger on our enforcement as far as advertorials that violate our quality guidelines. Now there's nothing wrong inherently with advertorials or native advertising, but they should not flow PageRank and there should be clear and conspicuous disclosure so that users realize that something is paid, not organic or editorial.

    Topic: Examples of Specific Niches to Be Targeted

    It's kind of interesting. We get a lot of great feedback from outside of Google. For example, there were people complaining about searches like "payday loans" on Google.co.uk. So we have two different changes that try to tackle those kinds of queries in a couple different ways. We can't get into too much detail about exactly how they work, but I'm kind of excited that we're going from having just general queries be a little more cleaned to going to some of these areas that have traditionally been a little more spammy including, for example, some more pornographic queries. And some of these changes might have a little bit more of an impact in those kinds of areas that are a little more contested by various spammers and that sort of thing.

    Topic:Going Upstream and More Sophisticated Link Analysis

    We're also looking at some ways to go upstream to deny the value to link spammers--some people who spam links in various ways. We've got some nice ideas on trying to make sure that that becomes less effective and so we expect that that will roll out over the next few months as well. And in fact, we're working on a completely different system that does more sophisticated link analysis. We're still in the early days for that, but it's pretty exciting. We've got some data now that we're ready to start munging and see how good it looks and we'll see whether that bears fruit or not.

    Topic: Hacked Sites

    We also continue to work on hacked sites in a couple different ways, number one trying to detect them better, we hope in the next few months to roll out a next generation of hacked sites detection that is even more comprehensive, and also try to communicate better to webmasters, because sometimes they/we see confusion between hacked sites and sites that serve up malware, and ideally you have a one stop shop where once someone realizes that they have been hacked, they can go to webmaster tools and have some single spot they can go where they get a lot more info to sort of point them in the right way to hopefully clean up those hacked sites.

    Topic: Shout out to the Spam Lords

    So if you're doing high quality content whenever you're doing SEO this shouldn't be some big surprise you shouldn't have to worry about a lot of different changes. If you've been hanging out on a lot black hat forums and trading different types of spamming package tips and that sort of stuff then it might be a more eventful summer for you.

    Topic: Authority Sites

    But we have also been working on a lot of ways to help regular webmasters. We're doing a better job of detecting when someone is sort of an authority in a specific space, could be medical or could be travel or whatever, and trying to make sure that those rank a little more highly if you're some sort of authority or a site that according to the algorithms we think might be a little more appropriate for users.

    Topic: "Borderline Quality" Sites... Possibly Good for Sites that Were Pandalized

    We've also been looking at Panda and seeing if we can find some additional signals and we think we've got some to help refine things for the sites that are kinda in the borderzone/in the grey area a little bit. So if we can soften the effect a little bit for those sites that we believe have some additional signals of quality that will help sites that might have previously been effected to some degree by Panda.

    Topic: Ranking Multiple Pages of Same Domain for the Same Query

    We've also heard a lot of feedback from some people about that if I go down three pages deep I'll see a cluster of several results all from one domain. We've actually made things better that you're less likely to see that on the first page and more likely to see that on the following pages. And we're looking at a change which might deploy which would basically say that once you've seen a cluster of results from one site then you'd be less likely to see more results from that site as you go deeper into the next pages of Google search results. And that has been good feedback that people have been sending us. We continue to refine host clustering and host crowding and all those sorts of the things. But we'll continue to listen to feedback and see what we can do even better.

    Topic: Back to Hacked Sites

    And then we're going to keep try figuring out how to get more information to webmasters. I mentioned more information for sites that are hacked and ways they might be able to do things, we're also going to be looking for ways we can provide more concrete details, more example URLs that webmasters can use to figure out where to go diagnose their site.

    Conclusion

    That's just a rough snapshot of how things look right now, things can absolutely change and be in flux we might see new attacks, we might need to move our resources around, but that's a little about bit of what to expect
    over the next few months in the summer of 2013.
    I think it's going to be a lot of fun. I'm really excited about a lot of these changes
    because we do see really good improvements in terms of people who are link spamming or doing various black hat spam would be less likely to show up I think by the end of the summer. And at the same time we've got a lot of nice changes queued up that hopefully will help small/medium businesses and regular webmasters as well. So that's just a very quick idea about what to expect in terms of SEO for the next few months as far as Google.

    So, yeah was a mouthful.
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    • Profile picture of the author Fernando1954
      Originally Posted by SEODollz View Post

      MATT CUTTS said.... (everything in bold is mine, thought it would be helpful to break it up)


      Topic: Ranking Multiple Pages of Same Domain for the Same Query

      We've also heard a lot of feedback from some people about that if I go down three pages deep I'll see a cluster of several results all from one domain. We've actually made things better that you're less likely to see that on the first page and more likely to see that on the following pages. And we're looking at a change which might deploy which would basically say that once you've seen a cluster of results from one site then you'd be less likely to see more results from that site as you go deeper into the next pages of Google search results. And that has been good feedback that people have been sending us. We continue to refine host clustering and host crowding and all those sorts of the things. But we'll continue to listen to feedback and see what we can do even better.


      So, yeah was a mouthful.
      Well i hope they get this bit right, I have a site that is for a holiday apartment to rent.Plenty of original articles about the resort, sat middle of page 1 til around 6 months ago now you have to trawl through 10 pages of trip advisor before you find it.
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  • Profile picture of the author dcary13
    That "Borderline Quality" Sites thingy can become a great thing.

    I was never hard hit by Panda except 3 sites i never understood they got hit that hard.
    They ARE borderline sites at some degree but for sure not black hat or worthless.

    I already noticed they was coming back over the last 3 month, one site really good with the last panda.

    The point is, that i had not the time to change them. So, i think its already the first sign of better Panda signals dealing with sites which are not total crap.

    I think i will delay some other work and update that 3 sites now. With that and a Panda helping "borderline" sites they should go good.
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
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    I've tried to tell people on this forum for a while, stick with the same overall niche for backlinks & you can't go wrong. Google is all about relevancy.

    A site selling golf carts looks legit If they have links pointing to other domains/pages that are selling golf clubs, golf lessons, golf vacation packages, etc...

    Stop buying random links on IM forums & stay the hell away from fiverr, go straight to the legit link sources (same niche webmasters) If you have to buy links.

    As long as your links are on same niche sites, you'll most likely end up getting the benefit of the links for SEO + direct niche traffic which is a safety net for traffic.

    If you have a site that no webmaster would ever link to from a legit site, well, your screwed no matter what you do. You guys with the Amazon doorway pages know what I'm talking about (zero real content).
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    • Profile picture of the author smodha
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      I've tried to tell people on this forum for a while, stick with the same overall niche for backlinks & you can't go wrong. Google is all about relevancy.

      A site selling golf carts looks legit If they have links pointing to other domains/pages that are selling golf clubs, golf lessons, golf vacation packages, etc...

      Stop buying random links on IM forums & stay the hell away from fiverr, go straight to the legit link sources (same niche webmasters) If you have to buy links.

      As long as your links are on same niche sites, you'll most likely end up getting the benefit of the links for SEO + direct niche traffic which is a safety net for traffic.

      If you have a site that no webmaster would ever link to from a legit site, well, your screwed no matter what you do. You guys with the Amazon doorway pages know what I'm talking about (zero real content).
      Agree with Yukon. If you're building authority sites (or working on client sites like I do) then just go and buy the links from the same niche. There are millions of webmasters out there who will entertain you for some dollar.

      As you long as you're buying from high PR, relevant pages, you don't need that many links. I spend about $100/client per month on buying links. With the right amount of digging, that's all you need.
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    • Profile picture of the author nik0
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      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      I've tried to tell people on this forum for a while, stick with the same overall niche for backlinks & you can't go wrong. Google is all about relevancy.

      A site selling golf carts looks legit If they have links pointing to other domains/pages that are selling golf clubs, golf lessons, golf vacation packages, etc...

      Stop buying random links on IM forums & stay the hell away from fiverr, go straight to the legit link sources (same niche webmasters) If you have to buy links.

      As long as your links are on same niche sites, you'll most likely end up getting the benefit of the links for SEO + direct niche traffic which is a safety net for traffic.

      If you have a site that no webmaster would ever link to from a legit site, well, your screwed no matter what you do. You guys with the Amazon doorway pages know what I'm talking about (zero real content).
      Random high PR links on IM forums still work great and will always keep on working great so why waste time on contacting tons of webmasters in the hope someone sells you a link for 20 bucks.

      I mean if someone contacts me to have a link on one of my Amazon sites you really think I am going to sell them one for $20,- and lose traffic on them? Hell no, they can shove the 20 bucks in their ass. For $200,- I might give it some thought.
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      • Profile picture of the author yukon
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        Originally Posted by nik0 View Post

        Random high PR links on IM forums still work great and will always keep on working great so why waste time on contacting tons of webmasters in the hope someone sells you a link for 20 bucks.

        I mean if someone contacts me to have a link on one of my Amazon sites you really think I am going to sell them one for $20,- and lose traffic on them? Hell no, they can shove the 20 bucks in their ass. For $200,- I might give it some thought.
        Nobody with a real site & knows what they're doing wants a link on an Amazon doorway site. I kinda doubt you would need to weigh your options on whether to sell that link. Sure there's always people wanting to buy junk links, but I'm not talking about clueless link buyers, I'm talking about long term link building where the link buyer doesn't have to sit there wondering If the link will get them shit canned in the SERPs two algo. updates from now.

        Random forum links on IM forums are crap unless your niche is IM & that's only from direct same niche traffic, not SEO. The odds of finding high PR forum links is low, by the time the PR actually shows up the thread would most likely have multiple pages & paginated where your new link would show up on page/pagination #10 (or whatever number) of the forum thread. So in reality it's most likely a paginated page with a PRn/a.
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        • Profile picture of the author nik0
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          Originally Posted by yukon View Post

          Nobody with a real site & knows what they're doing wants a link on an Amazon doorway site. I kinda doubt you would need to weigh your options on whether to sell that link. Sure there's always people wanting to buy junk links, but I'm not talking about clueless link buyers, I'm talking about long term link building where the link buyer doesn't have to sit there wondering If the link will get them shit canned in the SERPs two algo. updates from now.
          Lol WHAT??? Amazon doorway site, yes, but why on earth wouldn't want someone that is in the same niche a link on such site? Purely cause it links out to Amazon? Oh come on, Amazon sites can be legit authority sites. A link on such site would be a LOT more legit/real then a link on a site that is solely used to sell links and also MUCH stronger then some home made blogging site that is PR1 or PR2 cause believe me, every legit blogger out there with a PR3+ site isn't going to sell you a link for a few bucks or they must be insane stupid and that's why I made my comment about contacting countless webmasters as it will take much more time then you make it sound.

          Originally Posted by yukon View Post

          Random forum links on IM forums are crap unless your niche is IM & that's only from direct same niche traffic, not SEO. The odds of finding high PR forum links is low, by the time the PR actually shows up the thread would most likely have multiple pages & paginated where your new link would show up on page/pagination #10 (or whatever number) of the forum thread. So in reality it's most likely a paginated page with a PRn/a.
          I thought you talked about buying random links from IM forums, as in people who sell back links at forums like me.
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    • Profile picture of the author Backlinko
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      I've tried to tell people on this forum for a while, stick with the same overall niche for backlinks & you can't go wrong. Google is all about relevancy.
      .
      Pretty much this. I've found that relevant links help you get ranked better in the first place.

      But more importantly, I think that they're going to use a lack of Linking Domain Relevancy as a penalty signal.

      It's the simplest and more reliable way to separate spammy links from the legit links: real sites naturally acquire most of their links from related sites. Spammy sites don't.

      It's not often that you have something so easy for Big G to target. But expect it to play a huge role in Penguin 2.0.
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  • Profile picture of the author SEODollz
    "We've got some data now that we're ready to start munging and see how good it looks and we'll see whether that bears fruit or not. "

    Disavow data perhaps? Muahahhahaha
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  • Profile picture of the author Backlinko
    "Try to make sure you make a great site that users love, that they'll want to tell their friends about, bookmark, come back to, visit over and over again, ya know, all the things that make a site compelling."

    To me, this was the most interesting quote. On the surface it sounds like generic advice, but it gives a clue to how they look at a site's popularity and legitimacy.

    It's already known that they use Chrome to track bookmarks and user behavior. These human interaction signals are going to become more important as they're impossible to game.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by Backlinko View Post

      These human interaction signals are going to become more important as they're impossible to game.
      Theres a guy out there with a copy of Zennoposter and a few thousand proxies laughing hilariously at you right now
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  • Profile picture of the author dennis09
    I have my own theory about this, but it boggles my mind that they still haven't targeted backlinks within spun content. That's a pretty big one.
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
      Originally Posted by dennis09 View Post

      I have my own theory about this, but it boggles my mind that they still haven't targeted backlinks within spun content. That's a pretty big one.
      Yeah, I always have people that tell me that Google cannot recognize spun content.

      Well, if a program can spin content, don't you think someone could write a program that can recognize spun content?

      Seems pretty simple to me.
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