AdWords Tips From a $5,000/mo Affiliate

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Hey Guys,

So I just hit the $5,000 a month mark as an AdWords affiliate. Figured I'm come by and share some of what I learned =)

Tip #0 - Don't Be Afraid to Pay for Traffic

Most beginners are so focused on bum market, SEO and other free traffic sources that they put almost no attention on paid traffic.

Yet paid traffic is just so much easier to scale than free traffic. If you find an offer that converts at $0.40 a click, then as many clicks as you can get for $0.20 you're doubling your money. It's that simple.

Tip #1 - Know Your Earnings Per Click

The most important number is not conversion. It's not your payout either.

It's your earnings per click.

Let's say your product sells for $40 and your conversion rate is 1%. Then your EPC is $0.40.

You know that for every click under $0.40, you're making money.

This is crucially important for affiliates. You should not be looking at payouts or conversion rates like it's the golden egg. What really matters is your EPC.

Tip #2 - Quality Score

Quality Score is one of the most misunderstood aspects of AdWords marketing. There are two phases to quality score:

Phase One, the Pre-Run scan. Before you get any traffic, the AdWords bot scans your site and decides how relevant your landing page is. It gives you a score that is generally between 6 and 8.

Phase Two, this is your on the run score. Your QS is calculated in real time on a per click basis.

Phase One quality score is only important for getting your ad to run. Often times if your QS is too low, you ad won't even show. The key here is keyword relevance. Have your KW in your title tag, H1 tags and body text. It's all about your landing page.

Once you get a 7 or 8 in phase 1, then phase 2 is all about CTR. Your landing page becomes just 20%-30% of the equation. Most people put way too much emphasis on it at this point.

You now want to optimize for Google's eCPM. What Google effectively earns per 1000 impressions they give you. For example:

Advertiser 1: 1% CTR, 0.50 Per click. For every 1,000 impressions Google gives him Google makes $5.
Advertiser 2: 3% CTR, 0.25 Per Click. For every 1,000 impressions Google gives him, Google makes $7.5.

What's amazing is that Advertiser #2 will actually rank higher than advertiser #1, get more volume and pay half of what Advertiser #1 is paying. That's because Google's eCPM is higher for them and it's in their best interest to rank your ad higher. They make more money charging you less.

So the most important thing to optimize for in the later part of the game is your CTR. If you can write great ads and beat out your competition in CTR, then you're well ahead of the game.

Tip #3 - One Keyword Per AdGroup

Each Ad Group allows you to write a unique ad. Most people lump together somewhat related keywords and write one ad for all those keywords. For example:

How to Get a Girlfriend
Where to Meet a Nice Girl
Meet a Girlfriend
Tips for Getting a Girlfriend
(Plus 10 more)

They put them all in one Ad Group and write one ad for it.

This is a great way to both kill your quality score and your CTR. Instead, it's crucial to write just one ad per keyword so that your ads are laser targeted, your QS is high and your CTR is off the charts.

(By the way, I've gotten 25% CTRs before, which is insane.)

Here's how to do it.

Tip #4 Edit in Excel, Upload in AdWords Editor

Most people trying out AdWords try to do it in the web interface. This is an insanely slow way to do things. It'd be impossible to do most of the advanced techniques, and one keyword per adgroup would be suicide.

I often launch with as many as 5,000 keywords; doing that in the web interface would take months.

Instead, you can edit everything in excel and then just copy and past it into AdWords editor.

You can do all your keyword research, group them into Ad Groups and then just copy and paste. You can write all your ads in excel and just copy and paste it into AdWords editor.

Doing this, creating 1 keyword per adgroup takes about 10 minutes once I have my keyword list. I can write ads for 200 keywords in about an hour.

It's much faster, more streamlined and you'll make far more money.

-----------------------------

I'll leave it at that for now =)

Best wishes,

- Derek


#adwords #tips
  • Profile picture of the author neslo1963
    That is amasing, that this is possible. It depends on what language and subjects I think. But it is great that it is working so well for you
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  • Profile picture of the author Derek Pankaew
    I'll also add for affiliates: Stop promoting Clickbank and start promoting CPA.

    Let's say you're promoting a really good Clickbank product getting a 2% conversion. The payout is $25. Your EPC is $0.50.

    Well, EPCs on CPA programs can range anywhere from $1 to $5. *Earnings per click.*

    I send traffic, 25% of it converts on a lead that pays $5. My EPC is $1.25. They never have to pull out their credit card. It's sooo much easier to make money.
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    • Profile picture of the author wm00
      How do you deal with the low QS for CPA offers? Most of the have just one page with an image on it and almost no text at all. I generally get very low QS when I use direct linking for CPA offers.

      Originally Posted by Derek Pankaew View Post

      I'll also add for affiliates: Stop promoting Clickbank and start promoting CPA.

      Let's say you're promoting a really good Clickbank product getting a 2% conversion. The payout is $25. Your EPC is $0.50.

      Well, EPCs on CPA programs can range anywhere from $1 to $5. *Earnings per click.*

      I send traffic, 25% of it converts on a lead that pays $5. My EPC is $1.25. They never have to pull out their credit card. It's sooo much easier to make money.
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    • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.
      Originally Posted by Derek Pankaew View Post

      I'll also add for affiliates: Stop promoting Clickbank and start promoting CPA.

      Let's say you're promoting a really good Clickbank product getting a 2% conversion. The payout is $25. Your EPC is $0.50.

      Well, EPCs on CPA programs can range anywhere from $1 to $5. *Earnings per click.*

      I send traffic, 25% of it converts on a lead that pays $5. My EPC is $1.25. They never have to pull out their credit card. It's sooo much easier to make money.
      what a gem of a thread. Big eye opener. I am still focused on clickbank but what you say really makes me think now.

      My "problem" is that i am basically a virgin when it comes to CPA...and i never thought that CPA/PPC would even be worth it. So this all basically free offers/trials and people filling out forms or submitting emails?

      The biggest problem with clickbank is the very bad conversion rates observed (1:85 typical) and i wonder what conversion rates you get with CPA.
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  • Profile picture of the author Andy Hart
    Great stuff there derek, you can tell you are actually walking the walk and not just spouting rubbish, thanks

    Andy
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    • Profile picture of the author jeswarrior
      I haven't used Adwords for awhile but I might start using it. So, 1 keyword per adgroup. Does that also mean that I have to create landing pages tailored to each keyword or just point the ads to the same landing page?
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      • Profile picture of the author Derek Pankaew
        Originally Posted by jeswarrior View Post

        I haven't used Adwords for awhile but I might start using it. So, 1 keyword per adgroup. Does that also mean that I have to create landing pages tailored to each keyword or just point the ads to the same landing page?
        Hey Jes,

        No, you don't. I mean, ideally you do, and I've done it a couple times by hand, but with any significant number of keywords doing that is nearly impossible.

        There are a couple tools I've heard of that can automate it. SpeedPPC from my understanding does it, but it uses PHP variables to insert the keyword (not as good.) LPGen hard codes the keyword in, but my friend's been having nightmares trying to get it to work.

        Short answer is: In an ideal world yes, one LP per KW, but in reality no, just 1 KW per ad group and 1 landing page per theme. (ie. One landing page for each major different arena you're targeting.)
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      • Profile picture of the author Saidar
        Originally Posted by jeswarrior View Post

        I haven't used Adwords for awhile but I might start using it. So, 1 keyword per adgroup. Does that also mean that I have to create landing pages tailored to each keyword or just point the ads to the same landing page?
        Have a look at what I have done on my insurance website...

        My normal domain... http://www.autoinsurancequotes.co.za

        Now, at the end of the domain, enter "?kw=x" , where x is the keyword that you are using to send the visitors to your website.

        Example: BMW Insurance

        By using this technique your CTR will dramatically increase
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        • Profile picture of the author steve39
          Hi Derek,

          Excellent info. Thanks for that. I think one of the problems I have is stepping out of my comfort zone and trying PPC and CPA. Like a lot of individuals, I am still doing bum marketing and Clickbank.

          Do most CPA networks require that you have a well established site with a certain level of traffic? That is the impression I get from looking at a few applications.

          Steve
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          • Profile picture of the author Derek Pankaew
            Originally Posted by steve39 View Post

            Hi Derek,

            Excellent info. Thanks for that. I think one of the problems I have is stepping out of my comfort zone and trying PPC and CPA. Like a lot of individuals, I am still doing bum marketing and Clickbank.

            Do most CPA networks require that you have a well established site with a certain level of traffic? That is the impression I get from looking at a few applications.

            Steve
            Hey Steve,

            Yes and no. What they really want to know is that you're not some fraudster in China who plans to fake IP addresses and fill out fake leads.

            The most surefire way to do that is to only accept established affiliates. That's why most networks are so selective. If there weren't fraud concerns, most networks would just accept anyone who could send traffic. Money's money =)

            If you're just starting out, you can get accepted to just about any network if you attend a convention somewhere. Once a rep meets you in person and knows you're a real person, they'll give on an account instantly.

            I also highly recommend Meetup202.com (no www) for meeting affiliate marketers nearby. If an established marketer would vouch for you, you can get accepted as well.

            Or you could just apply for 20 different CPA networks and you'll get in to at least 5.

            Good luck =)
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            • what daily budget you recommend for starters Derek?
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              • Profile picture of the author Derek Pankaew
                Originally Posted by AllThingsArePossible View Post

                what daily budget you recommend for starters Derek?
                No budget. If it's not profitable, spend no money. If it's profitable, spend as much money as you can.

                I'm usually willing to lose up to $200 to get a campaign to break even. Let's say I run a campaign and it's 80% return to start. So I spend $100, I make back $80.

                That means that with increased CTR, increase clickthrus and increased conversion rates, that campaign could easily be a campaign that doubles my money down the road.

                So I might spend something like $50 a day to begin testing and getting data. Once I have data, when it's profitable I jack up my limits and spend as much as I possibly can.

                If it's not profitable, but is only losing a little bit of money, then I tweak until it's profitable.

                If the ROI is ridiculously bad - For example, I spent $30 and made $1.75 - Then I just ditch the campaign.

                Cheers,

                - Derek
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                • Profile picture of the author FredJones
                  Originally Posted by Derek Pankaew View Post

                  No budget. If it's not profitable, spend no money. If it's profitable, spend as much money as you can.

                  - Derek
                  Derek, from your description is appears that you still have to spend say $100-$200 to even identify whether the niche is profitable. And you may have to spend a couple of thousand for even identifying one profitable niche if you are not experienced enough to spot much of it from intuition.

                  Added follow up email services to that and so on (or do you actually make profit-per-click even without follow-up?) - everything together makes it tough. Surely it means a rather high expenditure even at start up?

                  Would not mind doing that after I have my first 4-5K, since I can probably afford to experiment a little then. But before that?

                  Of course, I realize that investing $4-5K for online business is also way cheaper than a physical business.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Derek Pankaew
                    Originally Posted by FredJones View Post

                    Derek, from your description is appears that you still have to spend say $100-$200 to even identify whether the niche is profitable. And you may have to spend a couple of thousand for even identifying one profitable niche if you are not experienced enough to spot much of it from intuition.

                    Added follow up email services to that and so on (or do you actually make profit-per-click even without follow-up?) - everything together makes it tough. Surely it means a rather high expenditure even at start up?

                    Would not mind doing that after I have my first 4-5K, since I can probably afford to experiment a little then. But before that?

                    Of course, I realize that investing $4-5K for online business is also way cheaper than a physical business.
                    Hey Fred,

                    Well, if you're careful you can succeed without blowing that much money. I was fortunate enough that my first campaign was successful right off the bat. My next 5 of so were flops, but I only lost maybe $30-50 on each. Then I figured out how to make a certain campaign work in a broad market and started to make good money off that.

                    So my "schedule" looked something like:

                    Campaign 1: Successful, $50-$75/day
                    Campaign 2: Flop, Lost $30
                    Campaign 3: Flop, Lost $50
                    Campaign 4: Flop, Lost $60
                    Campaign 5: Flop, Lost $30
                    Campaign 6: Flop, Lost $40
                    Campaign 7: Success, $20 a day profit
                    Campaign 8: Success, $30 a day profit
                    Campaign 9: Success, $120 a day profit

                    Something like that. I've never blown 1K on testing before. I'm sure if you tried to break into insane markets like **** you'd probably need a 5K testing budget, but if you're not doing anything off the charts you can get a sense for whether something's working or not pretty quickly.

                    More often than not the main issue isn't that your traffic isn't converting, it's that you're not getting enough traffic. In those cases you just scrap the campaign entirely without spending much money.

                    If you're getting traffic and it doesn't convert at all, then you can scrap it as well. Spend $50, toss it away.

                    But if you're getting traffic and you're making some money, then it's your call on whether to tweak or not. Really though, 70% of the time you can figure out whether or not a campaign is profitable pretty much right off the bat.

                    That said, I definitely don't recommend starting without at least $2,000 in the bank. Most networks will pay you at Net 30 terms until you get to $1,000 a week in gross revenue. That means you actually get paid 30-45 days after you generate your income.

                    If you only have $200 to start with and you double that every month, you're only going to make $200 your first month, $400 the next month, etc. It'll take you forever to get to anywhere significant.

                    With $2,000 - $5,000 to start, you should have enough startup capital to get you to at least Net 15 Bi-Monthly, if not weekly payments. Once you can start cycling your income back into your ad spend, then budget becomes a complete non-issue because your earnings cover all your expenses.

                    I started out writing articles on the Warrior Forum by the way. $7 an article, write 4-5 articles an hour, making $30 an hour or so. Saved up enough money to start playing with PPC. That's one way to build up a bit of cash to start.

                    Cheers,

                    - Derek
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                    • Originally Posted by Derek Pankaew View Post


                      Tip #4 Edit in Excel, Upload in AdWords Editor

                      Most people trying out AdWords try to do it in the web interface. This is an insanely slow way to do things. It'd be impossible to do most of the advanced techniques, and one keyword per adgroup would be suicide.

                      I often launch with as many as 5,000 keywords; doing that in the web interface would take months.

                      Instead, you can edit everything in excel and then just copy and past it into AdWords editor.

                      You can do all your keyword research, group them into Ad Groups and then just copy and paste. You can write all your ads in excel and just copy and paste it into AdWords editor.

                      Doing this, creating 1 keyword per adgroup takes about 10 minutes once I have my keyword list. I can write ads for 200 keywords in about an hour.

                      It's much faster, more streamlined and you'll make far more money.
                      This tip is pure gold! Ever since I started to use excel & adwords editor in 2008, I saved so much time while adding so many campaigns much faster than ever.

                      Originally Posted by Derek Pankaew View Post


                      That said, I definitely don't recommend starting without at least $2,000 in the bank. Most networks will pay you at Net 30 terms until you get to $1,000 a week in gross revenue. That means you actually get paid 30-45 days after you generate your income.

                      If you only have $200 to start with and you double that every month, you're only going to make $200 your first month, $400 the next month, etc. It'll take you forever to get to anywhere significant.

                      With $2,000 - $5,000 to start, you should have enough startup capital to get you to at least Net 15 Bi-Monthly, if not weekly payments. Once you can start cycling your income back into your ad spend, then budget becomes a complete non-issue because your earnings cover all your expenses.
                      When I started I had so much lesser than that & scaling up was very slow, this is really good advice.

                      Originally Posted by Derek Pankaew View Post


                      I started out writing articles on the Warrior Forum by the way. $7 an article, write 4-5 articles an hour, making $30 an hour or so. Saved up enough money to start playing with PPC. That's one way to build up a bit of cash to start.
                      Great tip for earning start up capital!
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                    • Wow Derek! You're doing really well man, congratulations.

                      I'm trying to expand into PPC myself, if you'd be interested in coaching me shoot me a PM (can show you what I do too) or just flat out pay ya. PPC is something I need to learn and I've been putting it off for too long.

                      Originally Posted by Derek Pankaew View Post


                      I started out writing articles on the Warrior Forum by the way. $7 an article, write 4-5 articles an hour, making $30 an hour or so. Saved up enough money to start playing with PPC. That's one way to build up a bit of cash to start.


                      - Derek
                      And a damn fine writer you were too Those WoW articles are still getting hits daily.

                      George
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                      Clickbank #1 Bestseller
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                    • Profile picture of the author studytour
                      Hi,

                      Have you tried using software like affliate prophet of peter yoon?
                      It says you can save a lot before and after the campaign.

                      regards
                      Studytour

                      Originally Posted by Derek Pankaew View Post

                      Hey Fred,

                      Well, if you're careful you can succeed without blowing that much money. I was fortunate enough that my first campaign was successful right off the bat. My next 5 of so were flops, but I only lost maybe $30-50 on each. Then I figured out how to make a certain campaign work in a broad market and started to make good money off that.

                      So my "schedule" looked something like:

                      Campaign 1: Successful, $50-$75/day
                      Campaign 2: Flop, Lost $30
                      Campaign 3: Flop, Lost $50
                      Campaign 4: Flop, Lost $60
                      Campaign 5: Flop, Lost $30
                      Campaign 6: Flop, Lost $40
                      Campaign 7: Success, $20 a day profit
                      Campaign 8: Success, $30 a day profit
                      Campaign 9: Success, $120 a day profit

                      Something like that. I've never blown 1K on testing before. I'm sure if you tried to break into insane markets like **** you'd probably need a 5K testing budget, but if you're not doing anything off the charts you can get a sense for whether something's working or not pretty quickly.

                      More often than not the main issue isn't that your traffic isn't converting, it's that you're not getting enough traffic. In those cases you just scrap the campaign entirely without spending much money.

                      If you're getting traffic and it doesn't convert at all, then you can scrap it as well. Spend $50, toss it away.

                      But if you're getting traffic and you're making some money, then it's your call on whether to tweak or not. Really though, 70% of the time you can figure out whether or not a campaign is profitable pretty much right off the bat.

                      That said, I definitely don't recommend starting without at least $2,000 in the bank. Most networks will pay you at Net 30 terms until you get to $1,000 a week in gross revenue. That means you actually get paid 30-45 days after you generate your income.

                      If you only have $200 to start with and you double that every month, you're only going to make $200 your first month, $400 the next month, etc. It'll take you forever to get to anywhere significant.

                      With $2,000 - $5,000 to start, you should have enough startup capital to get you to at least Net 15 Bi-Monthly, if not weekly payments. Once you can start cycling your income back into your ad spend, then budget becomes a complete non-issue because your earnings cover all your expenses.

                      I started out writing articles on the Warrior Forum by the way. $7 an article, write 4-5 articles an hour, making $30 an hour or so. Saved up enough money to start playing with PPC. That's one way to build up a bit of cash to start.

                      Cheers,

                      - Derek
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  • Profile picture of the author Fox30
    Nice write up. I highly recommend SpeedPPC. It is really an incredible tool.
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  • Profile picture of the author Derek S
    Derek (nice name)

    I can create an adwords campaign in my sleep at this point and don't understand why people are so afraid to use this tool. I'm lazy and want auto pilot so writing articles always seemed trivial to me lol.

    Plus once you master AdWords it will never cost you a thing! I made over $200,000.00 last year with with just one of my campaigns and I only invested in around $60,000 in AdWords. My products where found and even featured on the news a few times because of an advertisement I had on AdWords.

    Derek man you have some very powerful results in front you you:
    i) What keywords convert
    ii) What Sales Copy Converts

    I agree with everything but one part of your method...

    If I where you at this point I would drop promoting other peoples products, take what works and run with it on your own. Letting others do the affiliate work for you in addition to personal sales.
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  • Profile picture of the author Derek Pankaew
    Hey Derek,

    Yeah, I can totally see that. At the moment I'm still focused on mastering traffic generation. I feel like I'm only at 20% with AdWords. I know guys doing 10K a day on AdWords, so in a way I still feel like a beginner.

    I also want to learn media buys, co registration and a slew of other traffic techniques before promoting my own product. But at some point, yes =)

    Cheers,

    - Derek
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  • Profile picture of the author mmickey
    very good post

    you may want to try out some other networks like Yahoo or MSN
    and PPV for much cheaper traffic source
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    • Profile picture of the author Derek Pankaew
      Originally Posted by mmickey View Post

      very good post

      you may want to try out some other networks like Yahoo or MSN
      and PPV for much cheaper traffic source
      Yeah, Yahoo and MSN have been a pain in the --- to work with. I'll upload a spreadsheet, they'll send me back 20% of my keywords with errors, I'll fix it, they'll send it back with more errors ... ...

      Haven't really spent much time trying to get it to work. I probably will at some point =)

      I'm trying out PPV. Haven't had much success yet.

      - Derek
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      • Profile picture of the author jbsmith
        All great tips - what is missing is the secret sauce of how to write compelling Adwords ads, most people get this wrong, get poor CTR and lower quality score as a result.

        What would you recommend as the best resources (paid or otherwise) for writing Google Ads out there today?

        Cheers,

        J
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        • Profile picture of the author Derek Pankaew
          Originally Posted by jbsmith View Post

          All great tips - what is missing is the secret sauce of how to write compelling Adwords ads, most people get this wrong, get poor CTR and lower quality score as a result.

          What would you recommend as the best resources (paid or otherwise) for writing Google Ads out there today?

          Cheers,

          J
          Yeah - My secret sauce is stealing other people's ads.

          Go into your market, do 10 searches on related keywords and steal all the ads that look good. Reword, mix and match until you have two ads that you think will perform. Run those ads.

          Come up with as little as you possibly can yourself

          That said, "exposed" and "scam" ads have the highest CTRs for me.

          Example:

          Is Resveratrol a Scam?
          Warning: Read This Review Before
          You Buy Resveratrol! Visit Now...

          Resveratrol Scam "Exposed"
          Warning: Read This Review Before
          You Buy Resveratrol! Visit Now...

          Also, I use the registered and trademarked symbols in my ads liberally. They stand out.
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          • Profile picture of the author sree94
            Originally Posted by Derek Pankaew View Post

            Yeah - My secret sauce is stealing other people's ads.

            Go into your market, do 10 searches on related keywords and steal all the ads that look good. Reword, mix and match until you have two ads that you think will perform. Run those ads.

            Come up with as little as you possibly can yourself

            That said, "exposed" and "scam" ads have the highest CTRs for me.

            Example:

            Is Resveratrol a Scam?
            Warning: Read This Review Before
            You Buy Resveratrol! Visit Now...

            Resveratrol Scam "Exposed"
            Warning: Read This Review Before
            You Buy Resveratrol! Visit Now...

            Also, I use the registered and trademarked symbols in my ads liberally. They stand out.

            This is BY FAR the best way to get clicks, at least in my tests

            Problem is, some vendors won't allow their affiliates to market by using these type of ads. They think it waters down their brand

            It's their sandbox, you have to play by their rules unfortunately
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            • Profile picture of the author Derek Pankaew
              Yeah. Offers are a dime in a dozen though. If one advertiser won't let you trademark bid, find another offer. You're the one with the traffic. You call the shots. In every market, there are hundreds of offers for you to choose from, especially in mainstream markets.
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              • Profile picture of the author FredFarnes
                Originally Posted by Derek Pankaew View Post

                Yeah. Offers are a dime in a dozen though. If one advertiser won't let you trademark bid, find another offer. You're the one with the traffic. You call the shots. In every market, there are hundreds of offers for you to choose from, especially in mainstream markets.
                I'm really not finding many offers in the Forex/Trading/Stocks arena.

                Is that not main-stream enough? NeverBlue has an Etoro offer, nothing else. That one does not allow brand-name marketing, and there would probably not be much benefit to using it. Actually, if a reader saw the brand name, they could just go to the vendor website.

                I'm starved for good opportunities. Lots of ClickBank tr*sh, but not much CPA. Do you see many offers in my niche with the other CPA networks that you are on?

                Thanks for any input.
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              • Profile picture of the author mediaguy
                Originally Posted by Derek Pankaew View Post

                Yeah. Offers are a dime in a dozen though. If one advertiser won't let you trademark bid, find another offer. You're the one with the traffic. You call the shots. In every market, there are hundreds of offers for you to choose from, especially in mainstream markets.

                Well said - very well said. Oh I remember the days of being begged to run specific offers for some of these companies. CPA Empire - Azoogle - Date.com oh wow the list goes on and on. But you have to understand that you are in control no matter if you are or you are not sending traffic to them at that time. For ever Niche there is at least 5 different companies with that product so keep looking.

                And when signing up to these networks - speak with authority - speak as if you will bring them in tons of traffic and sales. But at the same time be humble and get to know your rep very well.

                When you sign up to a network make sure you call them right away and ask to speak with a (AM) and then explain to him or her that you just signed up and want to get started right away.

                Sorry to hijack the thread but one more thing Derek - if one ad network is paying $5.00 the others will too. Back when I was doing PPC - Email - Banners - Pops - I would always make sure I got the best pay out.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sean Donahoe
    I tip my hat to you Derek, I have been preaching this for years to other marketers. Bum marketing, SEO and other forms of free traffic are great and should not be ignored but the plain and simple truth is that PPC, PPV and other paid forms of marketing are the easiest ways to get traffic as long as you watch that all important EPC!

    Nice work and thanks for sharing.

    All the best,

    Sean Donahoe
    The Manic Marketer
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  • Profile picture of the author jeswarrior
    That's sweet stuff Derek. Thank you for your tips. Now, when are you coming up with your own Adwords Tips Unleashed WSO so we can buy it?
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    • Profile picture of the author Saidar
      Hello Derek

      I've payed a lot of money for the information that you just now gave away freely! Everyone appreciate this guy for the information is worth thousands...

      I've one question, which CPA network or whatever you call it do you prefer? I have absolutely no experience except with clickbank

      Thanks
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      • Profile picture of the author Saidar
        I don't know of any CPA network that you can directly send the traffic to the CPA site, without having your own site, so if you know of any such CPA network I would appreciate it if you could give me their name
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        • Profile picture of the author Derek Pankaew
          Originally Posted by Saidar View Post

          I don't know of any CPA network that you can directly send the traffic to the CPA site, without having your own site, so if you know of any such CPA network I would appreciate it if you could give me their name
          You can do that with any CPA network.

          The issue isn't the CPA network, it's how you're sending traffic. Google AdWords won't allow you to direct link to an affiliate page. You can get away with iframing the offer for a few days, but usually your campaign will get slapped at that point.

          Some CPA networks allow you to do what's called "White Labeling" which is creating your own website and passing the data. Instead of having to direct them to the advertiser's site to fill out the info, you just have them fill it out on your site and then pass on the lead and get paid.

          Neverblue is a great network for white labeling. Smaller networks will often do it too. Large networks like Azoogle are harder to work with for that.

          That said, they probably won't give you white labeling access until you get to at least $100 a day.
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          • Profile picture of the author Saidar
            Originally Posted by Derek Pankaew View Post

            You can do that with any CPA network.

            The issue isn't the CPA network, it's how you're sending traffic. Google AdWords won't allow you to direct link to an affiliate page. You can get away with iframing the offer for a few days, but usually your campaign will get slapped at that point.

            Some CPA networks allow you to do what's called "White Labeling" which is creating your own website and passing the data. Instead of having to direct them to the advertiser's site to fill out the info, you just have them fill it out on your site and then pass on the lead and get paid.

            Neverblue is a great network for white labeling. Smaller networks will often do it too. Large networks like Azoogle are harder to work with for that.

            That said, they probably won't give you white labeling access until you get to at least $100 a day.
            Thanks for the info!

            Okay, here is the deal. I'm a student, capital is a MAJOR problem, I don't have thousands of dollars to get started.

            What are my options? I've been digging into SEO for the past two months because I felt that you need a lot of money to make any money with adwords. But if they pay weekly maybe it can work.

            Do I need a website about a certain nich, then the CPA network will give me ads relevant to the niche to display on my website?

            If I try to get into neverblue, what niche site do you reccomend I build and show them?
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            • Profile picture of the author Saidar
              By the way I would love a way other than clickbank, personally I hate selling all those bull$%^ products to honest people.

              I was one of those people, when I first started I bought a lot of products with my freakn food money that didn't help me a bit. So would love a way out of the whole clickbank "train"
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          • Profile picture of the author roley
            Originally Posted by Derek Pankaew View Post

            Google AdWords won't allow you to direct link to an affiliate page.
            Can you clarify this point?

            Do you mean Google wont allow you to link to one of your pages on your website which has affiliate links on? i.e Customer clicks ad and arrives on your website with affiliate link which needs to be clicked

            Or are you saying Google wont let you link directly to a merchants website using an affiliate link. I.e Customer clicks ad and arrives at merchant
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      • Profile picture of the author Derek Pankaew
        Originally Posted by Saidar View Post

        Hello Derek

        I've payed a lot of money for the information that you just now gave away freely! Everyone appreciate this guy for the information is worth thousands...

        I've one question, which CPA network or whatever you call it do you prefer? I have absolutely no experience except with clickbank

        Thanks
        Hey Saidar,

        Neverblue is probably the easiest network to get accepted into if you're just getting started. I like a variety of networks for different factors.

        Neverblue: Easy to get into, okay payouts and doesn't scrub. AMs take a while to respond though.

        Azoogle: Very responsive AMs, but restrictive in terms of traffic. (No PPV, etc.)

        Ads4Dough: Extremely personal AMs, the manager is an active super affiliate himself and really understands how to take care of affiliates. You can also get on weekly payments much faster than most networks.

        I've worked mostly with Neverblue and Azoogle. If you're starting out, getting into smaller networks can help a lot with cashflow if they'll do weekly payments faster. Most starting affiliates can't really float advertising money for 30 days before getting paid and having weekly wires can make a big difference.

        Believe it or not, payouts aren't really as high a factor for me. Good support is perhaps the #1 most important thing for me. I'm running a $4 offer that I'm making $70 a day ish with Neverblue, knowing full well Hydra Media pays out $5 right now simply because their support is better and ... Well, I'm too lazy to switch over to hydra ;P

        Anyway, post if you have any questions I'll be happy to help =)

        - Derek
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  • Profile picture of the author Tensor
    Hey Derek, great thread.

    What format of LP have you had the most success with in converting these <$5 CPA offers? Do you do a standard presell/review type page that you would use for a $50+ product?
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    • Profile picture of the author Derek Pankaew
      Originally Posted by Tensor View Post

      Hey Derek, great thread.

      What format of LP have you had the most success with in converting these <$5 CPA offers? Do you do a standard presell/review type page that you would use for a $50+ product?
      Hey Tensor,

      I've used both full page review sites as well as extremely simple "everything above the fold" landing page.

      Again, the best way is to see what other affiliates in your niche are doing and just copy it. In fact, if you can take the same style and do it better than other affiliates that's even better.

      - Derek
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      • Profile picture of the author Tensor
        Can you please give us an example of a LP click-through rate and and affiliate conversion rate you need to achieve positive ROI. I assume both would need to be >30%.

        Thanks.
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  • Profile picture of the author Derek Pankaew
    Hey Tensor,

    30-40%% CTR, 30% CR on a $4 offer (EPC is $1.20 ish.)

    Really though; earnings, CTRs and CRs depend entirely on the market.

    - Derek
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  • Profile picture of the author Kezz
    Thanks for this info Derek, this is really great. It's those little nitty gritty elements that really make or break you, so it's so valuable to get some insight on those elements.

    Someone told me that even if you don't use a website during your actual promotion, that most networks want to see a high quality site as part of their decision whether to take you on or not.Is this the case when applying to join networks?

    If so, does the website you show to a network need to be IM related, or does a non-IM website do the job also provided that it shows you are legitimate and professional?
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  • Profile picture of the author Bruce NewMedia
    Thanks Derek, this is awesome information!

    I'm just curious about a broader issue:
    Did you have any kind of PLAN when you entered CPA marketing and using Adwords?

    Or did you just keep trying different things until something started to click?

    If you were starting again from scratch, would you completely skip Clickbank offers or just try a few that seemed to have potential? I'm noticing more and more IMer's regarding Clickbank offers as either not reliable payouts or not converting as well as before? Thanks.

    also, when you say you 'hit $5K a month mark as adwords affiliate' does that mean how much you spend or is it related to your earnings?
    _____
    Bruce
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    • Profile picture of the author Derek Pankaew
      Someone told me that even if you don't use a website during your actual promotion, that most networks want to see a high quality site as part of their decision whether to take you on or not.Is this the case when applying to join networks?
      Maybe if you're new. Networks know that established affiliates would never reveal an active landing page.

      Here's the site I submit: Derek Pankaew - Performance Marketer - As you can tell, the design is extremely impressive

      When I apply for a network, I always call them right after I apply. Drastically increases your chances of getting in.

      How do you deal with the low QS for CPA offers? Most of the have just one page with an image on it and almost no text at all. I generally get very low QS when I use direct linking for CPA offers.
      You can't direct link for long in Google. Yes, your QS will get slapped or your entire campaign will get shut down period.

      One alternative is to iFrame to offer page on your own domain. Generally you can get away with iframing for a few days to a week, max before you get slapped.

      Direct linking and iframing are for testing only to see if an offer converts before you spend time building a real landing page.

      You can iframe for an unlimited period of time on the content network. You can also direct link if you get Whitelabel access once you hit $150+ a day.

      (Whitelabel = host your own CPA page and pass the data along and get paid. No landing page needed, but it's your site the forms are hosted on.)

      Did you have any kind of PLAN when you entered CPA marketing and using Adwords?

      Or did you just keep trying different things until something started to click?

      If you were starting again from scratch, would you completely skip Clickbank offers or just try a few that seemed to have potential? I'm noticing more and more IMer's regarding Clickbank offers as either not reliable payouts or not converting as well as before? Thanks.

      also, when you say you 'hit $5K a month mark as adwords affiliate' does that mean how much you spend or is it related to your earnings?
      Yes - I had a mentor who was making 10K a day. Working to hit that level in a few months

      Yes, absolutely skip Clickbank. Wouldn't even touch it. Bad tracking, bad conversion model. Most of all, the Earnings Per Click are far far lower than on CPA offers.

      5K is my net profit.

      Best wishes,

      - Derek
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  • Profile picture of the author pegasuspress
    Originally Posted by Derek Pankaew View Post

    You can do all your keyword research, group them into Ad Groups and then just copy and paste. You can write all your ads in excel and just copy and paste it into AdWords editor.

    Doing this, creating 1 keyword per adgroup takes about 10 minutes once I have my keyword list. I can write ads for 200 keywords in about an hour.
    derek, that's pretty impressive if you can really write that many keyword ads that quick and efficiently! There's no way I could churn out that many ads. For one thing, it would probably drive me nuts after about an hour of that kind of writing.

    It sounds like you've really got the whole process down flat and nailed at this point. Why not just hire yourself out doing custom KW ad campaigns for clients? At the speed you work at you could probably make close to $1K a day even if you charged just $.50 for each keyword/ad, which I don't think would be unreasonable.

    I'd be happy to pay you $5 per keyword/keyword ad for a batch of 10 as soon as you want to do them, just to see how it works out. If the results are promising we can always discuss lower rates for higher volumes of ads later. (I'd go broke real quick paying $5/ad on volume.)

    When I think about it, churning out keyword ads is one of my least favorite ways to spend my time. So, it's one of those things I'd just as soon pay somebody else to do anyhow - as long as they know what they're doing. And it sounds like you know exactly what you're doing!

    Get back to me on my offer, as I'm serious about it. I can just send your payment via PayPal if you have an account with them.

    Rich Cowen
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    • Profile picture of the author Derek Pankaew
      Originally Posted by pegasuspress View Post

      derek, that's pretty impressive if you can really write that many keyword ads that quick and efficiently! There's no way I could churn out that many ads. For one thing, it would probably drive me nuts after about an hour of that kind of writing.

      It sounds like you've really got the whole process down flat and nailed at this point. Why not just hire yourself out doing custom KW ad campaigns for clients? At the speed you work at you could probably make close to $1K a day even if you charged just $.50 for each keyword/ad, which I don't think would be unreasonable.

      I'd be happy to pay you $5 per keyword/keyword ad for a batch of 10 as soon as you want to do them, just to see how it works out. If the results are promising we can always discuss lower rates for higher volumes of ads later. (I'd go broke real quick paying $5/ad on volume.)

      When I think about it, churning out keyword ads is one of my least favorite ways to spend my time. So, it's one of those things I'd just as soon pay somebody else to do anyhow - as long as they know what they're doing. And it sounds like you know exactly what you're doing!

      Get back to me on my offer, as I'm serious about it. I can just send your payment via PayPal if you have an account with them.

      Rich Cowen
      Hey Rich,

      I decided not to do client work anymore a while back. I'm currently working on several campaigns that I believe I can get to 1K+ a day passive. Thanks for the offer though =)

      Maco:

      So you're still getting impressions and clicks but your conversion just dies? Is this on the search network or content network?

      On search that's very strange. It's happened to me once, but I knew exactly why that happened (the product went on TV.) It would be very strange for a keyword that's converting to suddenly stop converting if you didn't change anything and the traffic is the same. Unless it's a seasonal item.

      Are there competitors? See what they're doing. If in doubt, yes, pause it for a little while then run it again. That said, don't get too hung up over one campaign. Hammer out 3 campaigns a week and you'll have at least one keeper every other week or so.
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  • Profile picture of the author maco
    Thanks for the info. Very good.
    My experience with adwords promoting clickbank and Amazon products is it goes extremely well for a month, I get very good conversion, than it dies. I still get good clicks but no conversion. To date I am not able to work out why. Shall I have the adds running for 2 week, turn off for two weeks and turn on again?
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  • Profile picture of the author Hudu
    Great tips! I just payd to Adwords and it was a little succes. I got my money back from adsense and some new actice members, which was nice
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  • Profile picture of the author Learnanew
    Awesome tips Derek, thank you for this again.

    I'm curious about the remark you said about **** though, will it be hard to promote even if you use broad weight loss keywords?

    Thank you for your time, it's a pity you don't do coaching.
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  • Profile picture of the author Derek Pankaew
    I'm curious about the remark you said about **** though, will it be hard to promote even if you use broad weight loss keywords?
    Yes. Very, very hard.

    If you're willing to pay $10 a click to start for 2 weeks while you get your CTR up to higher than *anyone* else's ad so you can reduce your bids to $1 eventually, then *maybe* you can play in general weight loss.

    I said in **** you'd a 5K testing budget. That's just to get the campaign to profitable. Once you did that, you'd probably want another 10K-100K to spend as quickly as you can once it IS profitable. ie. Once you're making money, you want to be able to take the cap off and let the traffic roll in.

    In other words, ****/weight loss is a giant market where most of the players are the "big boys." Not saying don't do it, but you need a very strong plan.

    Fred: Hmm, haven't seen many Forex offers around. Not many stock trading ones either. There's a $90 Robert Allen offer that's floating around that seems to be doing pretty well though.

    With Forex stuff, you're probably better off going direct with private affiliate programs.
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    • Profile picture of the author oohah
      Hi Derek,

      Thanks for this informative post. I have a question about CPA (Cost Per Action, correct?) offers.

      Can you give me an example of what you consider to be a good CPA offer to promote , not one that you are using of course!

      I guess what I want to know is: What is the action that you like to promote? Zip submit, email submit, etc.

      The reason I ask is that it seems to me that a lot of these offers, if I am finding what you are talking about, are zip submits etc., but they actually are asking for more than that. The person has to complete more information, etc. and it seems to get shady.

      Is what I am asking clear?

      Thanks,

      Ken
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  • Profile picture of the author JRG
    Great post man, thanks!
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    • Profile picture of the author tUNU52
      This thread will be very helpful for me as a beginner. I am going to start AdWords Affilite very soon. Thanks for nice guidance.
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      • Profile picture of the author Gooddeal86
        holyshxt only 2-3 months and u r already making 5000/mo with ppc.
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        • Profile picture of the author Derek Pankaew
          Originally Posted by Gooddeal86 View Post

          holyshxt only 2-3 months and u r already making 5000/mo with ppc.
          Yeah - I had a mentor. He makes $10,000 a day. He's 16. Nuts.

          If we take Derek's example...its enough for him to discover just 1 more keyword block/offer thats converting and you already increased your profit by 500$ or more.
          Yeah, totally. By the way, I encourage you to think in terms of income per day rather than per month.

          If you think in terms of per day, it's very casual to think "Cool, this campaign should do $50 a day or so in a week."

          It's much scarier to think "I'm going to increase my income $1,500 a month in a week." One seems very easily doable, the other seems extremely difficult. It's a subconscious thing.

          Almost all the top marketers talk in terms of income per day. They say "I'm building a 1K a day campaign" rather than "My new campaign should make 30K a month."

          Cheers =)
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          • Profile picture of the author Gooddeal86
            tho i hope i can do that, i'm weak in making landing page
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          • Profile picture of the author Learnanew
            Originally Posted by Derek Pankaew View Post

            Yeah - I had a mentor. He makes $10,000 a day. He's 16. Nuts.



            Yeah, totally. By the way, I encourage you to think in terms of income per day rather than per month.

            If you think in terms of per day, it's very casual to think "Cool, this campaign should do $50 a day or so in a week."

            It's much scarier to think "I'm going to increase my income $1,500 a month in a week." One seems very easily doable, the other seems extremely difficult. It's a subconscious thing.

            Almost all the top marketers talk in terms of income per day. They say "I'm building a 1K a day campaign" rather than "My new campaign should make 30K a month."

            Cheers =)
            Slightly curious Derek, how much did you pay to get mentored ( Sorry if this sounds slightly rude or presumptious.) Because the way I'm looking at it coaching/mentoring seems to be the way to go rather than buying a 2000 dollar course on PPC.

            If so , where do you find people willing to mentor you?
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  • Profile picture of the author Johnny12345
    Derek,

    Great info. Thank you.

    1) Do you ever use the AdWords content network? I've heard that you can direct link without getting slapped (but I haven't tried it, so I don't know).

    2) It would be great to see what one of your landing pages looks like. (Maybe one that the offer is ending on or that you are going to kill?)

    Johnny
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  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Deegan
    Huge thanks Derek. The info and your story are very awesome indeed. Could you share abit more on your offer a selection and your initial testing process?
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  • Profile picture of the author Derek Pankaew
    I guess what I want to know is: What is the action that you like to promote? Zip submit, email submit, etc.

    The reason I ask is that it seems to me that a lot of these offers, if I am finding what you are talking about, are zip submits etc., but they actually are asking for more than that. The person has to complete more information, etc. and it seems to get shady.
    Hey Oohah,

    Not 100% clear. If you're doing email/zip submits, make sure you get paid on a first page submit, NOT a second page submit.

    Some email/zip submits actually pay you when they submit their email on the first page, AND put in their address on the second page. You want to use submits that convert on just the email.

    But naturally in either case they're going to ask for more info after they pay you. They need to make conversions afterall

    Do you ever use the AdWords content network? I've heard that you can direct link without getting slapped (but I haven't tried it, so I don't know).
    Yes I do - I'm not making big money on it, but I think it has great potential. You can't "direct link" per se, but you can iframe indefinitely.

    Direct Link: Put merchant's URL in your display URL, put your tracking code as your destination URL which redirects to the merchant's URL. This won't work - You'll get an incorrect destination error.

    iFrame: Put your own domain in the destination/display URL, use a full <frame> or <iframe> to basically make your merchant's page your page. On search this will get slapped fast, but on content you can get away with it forever.

    It would be great to see what one of your landing pages looks like. (Maybe one that the offer is ending on or that you are going to kill?)
    Resveratrol.TheQualityReviews.com

    Was making $50-$75 a day until RezV went on Oprah.

    Could you share abit more on your offer a selection and your initial testing process?
    Mingle with affiliates and ask your affiliate manager about what's converting. Then test like a mad man

    Btw about 4/5 campaigns will fail. The 1 that succeeds is worth it.
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    • Profile picture of the author friendclk
      Originally Posted by Derek Pankaew View Post

      Yes I do - I'm not making big money on it, but I think it has great potential. You can't "direct link" per se, but you can iframe indefinitely.

      iFrame: Put your own domain in the destination/display URL, use a full <frame> or <iframe> to basically make your merchant's page your page. On search this will get slapped fast, but on content you can get away with it forever.
      Don't you think there is a huge lack of security by using an IFrame? I've heard you can get in a lot of trouble by iframing a companies site. When you iframe, and if the customer buys something, the purchase is still being made on your website even though you Iframed, which means it lacks the Secure Connection of the companies page where they enter their personal information or even worse, credit card information.
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  • Profile picture of the author Derek Pankaew
    Originally Posted by honestbizpro View Post

    Hey Derek, awesome contribution...thanks.

    Do you have some favorite tools you use and or "competition observation" tools?
    My favorite tools are my brain, creativity and the Google Keyword Tool

    I use Quantcast for demographic data and Compete for competition spying. But honestly, honestly honestly, your #1 tool is your brain. Anyone can use these tools, but few people can think outside the box.
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    • Profile picture of the author jstover77
      Banned
      Hey Derek, great info! Will this strategy (one keyword per ad group) work well with just a website that sells services such as mine? I am guessing it will cause it increases your quality score on each ad group.

      Also, if I only want to spend $100 a day, and you have 150 keywords, how do you control you spending limit.

      Thanks,
      John
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  • Profile picture of the author Finch
    Excellent stuff here, probably the first thread of genuine use to PPC newcomers I've seen on the boards!

    I wouldn't personally go as far as including a separate ad group for every single keyword. I prefer to bundle keywords together in small groups of 4 and 5.

    If I could add anything to that list of advice, I'd say it loud and clear - TRACK YOUR CONVERSIONS!

    If you have hundreds of keywords and only a small group of them are converting, the difference between profitability and rinsing your account is as simple as knowing which ones are making the conversions.
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    • Profile picture of the author Derek Pankaew
      Originally Posted by Finch View Post

      Excellent stuff here, probably the first thread of genuine use to PPC newcomers I've seen on the boards!

      I wouldn't personally go as far as including a separate ad group for every single keyword. I prefer to bundle keywords together in small groups of 4 and 5.

      If I could add anything to that list of advice, I'd say it loud and clear - TRACK YOUR CONVERSIONS!

      If you have hundreds of keywords and only a small group of them are converting, the difference between profitability and rinsing your account is as simple as knowing which ones are making the conversions.
      Wow, holy crap, I can't believe I missed that one. Yes, track your conversions like a madman.

      I use Prosper 202, self hosted. Basically the Tracking 202 family is the #1 tracking system in the world, IMO. Personally PRO isn't quite where I want it to be yet for me to use, but I'll probably switch over in a few months. For now, I use Prosper 202 which is free.

      John: Start with your most promising keywords if they're high volume. If you have 150 low volume keywords, just launch them all. You can easily have 150 keywords that don't even get $100 a day in volume. If they're high volume, launch a few at a time starting with the most targeted ones and see if they convert.
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  • Profile picture of the author plepco
    Dude...this is gold. Great post.
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  • Profile picture of the author Derek Pankaew
    Hey Lidango - I think I'll pass for now. I'm super busy at the moment; I don't really want to be a marketing "guru" anyway. At least not yet =)
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  • Profile picture of the author Samos
    Derek Pankaew You are my #1 inspiration for now I have launched my first Adwords campaign today but my ads are still waithing to be reviewed .

    I am hoping I will make $300 / month very soon. Which is my goal for now.
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  • Profile picture of the author Derek Pankaew
    The biggest problem with clickbank is the very bad conversion rates observed (1:85 typical) and i wonder what conversion rates you get with CPA.
    It really depends on the offer, the traffic source and whether or not you're preselling with an LP. Again, it's not the conversion rate that matters, it's your earnings per click that's most important.

    I have some offers that convert as high as 30%. Those are pre-sold lead submits. I've had offers convert as low as 5%. I think generally my conversion rates have been over 5%. But again, the EPC is more important than any other number.
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  • Profile picture of the author MikeMorgan
    Hey Derek,

    You have really dropped very practical and useful tips .

    You really deserve to get $5,000 .

    And , what I think is that you have a winning formula in your hand .

    What you really need now is to master powerful scaling techniques to easily boost your earning to $20,000+ a month .

    Mike
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    CPA Game Changer - Coming Very Soon !

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    • Profile picture of the author Derek Pankaew
      Hey Mike,

      For sure. I'm working on several campaigns right now with $1k/day potential. I've pretty much shifted my focus from $100/day to $1,000 a day, so anything I even bother spending time on now has the potential to make five figures.

      Shift in mindset =)

      - Derek
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      • Profile picture of the author Learnanew
        Yep, thanks for the tip on the weight loss niche Derek, I guess I was just running an uphill battle with that one for now. I'll pick a less competitive niche and come back to this one when I'm a bit more experienced with google adwords.

        Thanks again.
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  • Profile picture of the author Gooddeal86
    derek, u have to create landing pages for all the campaigns?
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    • Profile picture of the author Derek Pankaew
      Originally Posted by Gooddeal86 View Post

      derek, u have to create landing pages for all the campaigns?
      For Google Search absolutely. For Google Content (which I haven't made money on yet) I often don't. For other traffic sources I often don't, sometimes I do.

      It's a case by case basis. But for AdWords yes, absolutely.

      EDIT: Actually, if someone who really knows content network would like to exchange notes on search vs content, I'd be very, very interested.
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  • Profile picture of the author kckaz
    Derek..excellent thread. Are you doing any backend offers to your ever growing list?
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  • Profile picture of the author Lightlysalted
    This is an excellent thread. You provide some good observations about doubling your money, and it is important to be able to get a feel for your average click activity. It also depends upon the niche that you are targeting and "Free Stuff" is clearly no going to pay as well as "Debt Consolidation". I would always use google keyword checker to find the average CPC for niches i want to target with my sites.
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  • Profile picture of the author SoundsGood
    Wow, great stuff...

    Derek, how do you suggest we get the user from Google to the CPA?

    Should we:

    A) Send them directly to the merchant?

    B) Send them to the merchant through a re-direct on a domain name we own?

    C) Send then to a landing page (on a domain name that we own) then have then click on something that sends them to the merchant?

    D) Something else ??


    Thanks in advance!
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  • Profile picture of the author LeivaMatias
    Hey derek,

    I was running on that rezervatrol keyword. I had a great CTR, 9/10 quality score...

    That keyword was still very expensive compared to others.

    How consistent are your campaigns? I have 20 campaigns running right now, but they are up and down.

    i have 5-10 consistent ones.

    Is that pretty normal in terms of consistency?
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    • Profile picture of the author Derek Pankaew
      SoundsGood: You can't really send them directly to the merchant on Google. On MSN and Yahoo you can, but not so much on Google. That includes domain redirects.

      Leiva: Yeah, pretty up and down =) I've had days where I wake up at 10:00am and I've already made $200, and I've had days where I'm watching my stats in dismay as they get worse and worse over the day.

      Hard to say how long campaigns last. Don't have enough experience to answer that question yet, I've really only been doing this 2-3 months. I'll get back to you on that =)
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  • Profile picture of the author Marian Berghes
    Thats why Im gonna start PPC soon

    Things are so much easier and faster to scale up once you find stuff that works...Instead of writing another 100 articles/blog posts etc...you just add more keywords and increase budget etc...

    At first I didn't believe the guys that told me that if you get a good course on PPC and follow it you can get to 10.000$/month in 4-6 months...but more and more people started to do this.

    If we take Derek's example...its enough for him to discover just 1 more keyword block/offer thats converting and you already increased your profit by 500$ or more.
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  • Profile picture of the author Marian Berghes
    have you tried expanding your best offers to yahoo and msn and see how they compare? Or you want to master google first?

    Also, how long did the mentor stay with you? And did you have any knowledge prior to mentorship regarding ppc>cpa?

    EDIT: Also, how much time do you work per day? Cus I heard some crazy stories like 15 hours a day/12 hours etc...and that would be the time you should put in if you want to succeed.

    All the best.
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    • Profile picture of the author Derek Pankaew
      Originally Posted by Marian Berghes View Post

      have you tried expanding your best offers to yahoo and msn and see how they compare? Or you want to master google first?

      Also, how long did the mentor stay with you? And did you have any knowledge prior to mentorship regarding ppc>cpa?

      EDIT: Also, how much time do you work per day? Cus I heard some crazy stories like 15 hours a day/12 hours etc...and that would be the time you should put in if you want to succeed.

      All the best.
      Hey Marian,

      The mentor stayed with me for a couple weeks to a month. Really it was the first day that made the most impact, because he explained and showed me his whole system start to finish and explained all my questions.

      No, I didn't have any knowledge prior to that. I did have a little bit of AdWords experience and a lot of copywriting experience.

      I *do* want to master Google first, but I'm playing a bit with MSN. They're completely different animals - You can't really just "port" a campaign over, you pretty much have to start from scratch.

      (Well, you don't have to, but it's better to.)

      I work 10-12 hours a day pretty often. I've pulled my share of 14 hour days. I wouldn't say you "have" to work that hard, but it's not a lax/easy job
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  • Profile picture of the author Marian Berghes
    Its not like Im scared to work or stuff...but the main point of me doing internet marketing of any form is to make as much money as I can WHILE still having the TIME to actually ENJOY them.

    Now for me...you can make 40.000$ a day...but if you work 12-15 hours EVERYDAY for it, then no I don't want it.

    I would be much happy with 10k$ per day (witch btw is STILL HUGE) and only working like 6-8 hours or some stuff.

    Again, I don't know if its even possible to reach a point in this CPA business where you can make that kinda of money with 6-8 hours of work per day.

    Im just thinking that once you get to a certain level, you can hire people and you can "slow" your growth abit so that you can enjoy that money to its fullest.

    To me money isnt everything, the EXPERIENCE they bring is. (travelling, doing crazy stuff, vacations etc...)
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  • Profile picture of the author Derek Pankaew
    Hey Marian,

    Totally hear you on the experience part. I'm actually a *highly* spiritual and adventurous person and I live a very active life outside of marketing.

    That said, most internet marketers I know just spend their time marketing =)

    Can you make $10K a day 100% passive? It's tough. Honestly, most people making 10K a day are doing either:

    1) Fads like ****, RezV, Grants, Ringtones etc that will die quickly but have a lot of volume, OR

    2) They're doing media buys, which also dies quickly once you've exhausted an audience or they get used to your banners.

    In other words, the most common methods of making 10K/day are not passive. That said, if you have passive income in mind rather than sheer volume, with a lot of work you could probably get enough profitable campaigns going that you can do 10K a day on solid long term campaigns.

    Rather than the amount of hours you put in, I think your commitment is more important. If you're working 12 hours a day but you're dicking around on forums or watching Lost, you'll probably make less progress than a highly focused marketer working just 6 hours a day.

    Anyway - For me, building campaigns has become a creative process. It's not really "work" anymore. My friend and I are actually planning a trip around the world entirely working from our laptops funded by affiliate marketing. We need to be at 30K/mo to do that, and we're looking to hit that by mid August the latest.

    If you're committed, you can make it happen. Massive action baby =)

    - Derek
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    • Profile picture of the author Lothar Evers
      Originally Posted by Derek Pankaew View Post

      Anyway - For me, building campaigns has become a creative process. It's not really "work" anymore. My friend and I are actually planning a trip around the world entirely working from our laptops funded by affiliate marketing. We need to be at 30K/mo to do that, and we're looking to hit that by mid August the latest.- Derek
      Thanks Derek,
      it is really great to read your experience and values. In my working experience it is this very moment when you do not have to distinguish anymore between (hard) work and mission, that makes us happy and committed.
      Hope your trip around the world becomes reality. Would be great to meet and host you if you should include Germany!
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  • Profile picture of the author Marian Berghes
    In my opinion Coaching and mentoring was always better then any 2k$ course out there IF you know witch mentor to get.

    And yeah derek, I heard that too...that they die somewhat quickly but you can make boatloads of money before they do

    I was just checking out some of the super affiliates blogs and it seems that majority of them are a One-Man Team, and they don't even work full work days most of the time (they do mention that it happens to have 13-14hrs days, but not in a row)...so again I come to my first thing...once you got the "systems" in place and you can outsource at least 50% of the work things might get better.
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    • Profile picture of the author SoundsGood
      Originally Posted by Marian Berghes View Post

      In my opinion Coaching and mentoring was always better then any 2k$ course out there IF you know witch mentor to get.
      How do we know which mentor to get?
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  • Profile picture of the author Marian Berghes
    For me a good mentor is the representation of what you want to become some day, or something close.

    Ex: Example...you know a guy that makes 10k$/month and lives in a house near the beach etc...all that stuff...if you would want something like that...ask him to teach you step by step.

    Don't go with a mentor and let him consult you once a day, or once a week or sht like that...go with a mentor that HAS TIME to teach you and DOESN'T do it for the soul purpose of getting your money.

    You should talk on the phone or via skype or some sht multiple times a day...so that he literally takes you BY THE HAND in almost everything.

    And also, you don't need to get a mentor like ex: Frank kern...just go with a person you like as a person, that makes far,far,far more money than you and that is willing to spend a couple of HOURS PER DAY helping you get off the ground.

    He should be your safety net, when you have a problem you need to know that he WILL be on the other side of the phone all ready to help you.

    Another example: guys like Eben Pagan or Filsaime said in some interviews/presentation that even now, when they do millions of dollars per year they still call theyr mentor from time to time just to get some oppinions from him or ask him for advice in a certain topic and they would gladly help them even if they do make millions of dollars per year and most people would think that they wouldn't need any help.

    Now THATS the type of mentor you want.

    Remember in IM the connections/friends you make over time can count as much or more then the money you make


    EDIT: Of course this is if your a total newbie...if you do know some stuff here and there and maybe already made a small amount of money online...then yes, you don;t need him for hours a day, a few short phone-calls would be enough.
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    • Profile picture of the author SoundsGood
      Originally Posted by Marian Berghes View Post

      go with a mentor that HAS TIME to teach you and DOESN'T do it for the soul purpose of getting your money.

      You should talk on the phone or via skype or some sht multiple times a day...so that he literally takes you BY THE HAND in almost everything.

      ...that is willing to spend a couple of HOURS PER DAY helping you get off the ground.

      He should be your safety net, when you have a problem you need to know that he WILL be on the other side of the phone all ready to help you.
      Sounds perfect. Know anyone like this that I can work with?
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      • Profile picture of the author Gooddeal86
        yea in serious need of good mentor. total noob in ppc
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  • Profile picture of the author Marian Berghes
    no sry...thats just something you need to research on your own...you can even look on the forum, maybe you may find somebody.

    If not, start looking trough IM blogs...both general and -personal- blogs, cus you can tell what kind of person he is most of the time just by reading a guys blog
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  • Profile picture of the author YesReportsDotCom
    Derek, Thanks for all this Great Info!

    Earlier Today; I was down, real down.

    Your post was Clean and Not trying to sell me anything; that is Re-Freshing!

    Thanks Derek!
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    • Profile picture of the author Mathias
      Hi Derek and thanks for this amazing post!

      Btw!

      What is your Mentors name?
      Does he have a website?
      Does he teach others/or want to?

      :confused:
      And the final question is if its possible for a total newbie that has pre studied google adwords and how everything works about CTR, LP, Quality Score etc before starting, can start with a budget as low as 495$?

      If that is the case, should i promote CPA offers to begin with instead of Clickbank products?

      /Thanks in advance

      /Final Thoughts: Ask the right question to the right person at the right time! The time is NOW for me!
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      • Profile picture of the author Derek Pankaew
        Slightly curious Derek, how much did you pay to get mentored
        Free man. What the heck am I going to pay someone who makes $10K a day when I'm making $0? Mentors do it out of just being goodhearted pretty much

        If so , where do you find people willing to mentor you?
        Meetup202 | Local Affiliate Marketing Meetups

        These are the affiliate marketing meetups all around the world. Usually there's at least a couple super affiliates there.

        This will get you in the room with them, whether or not you can get them to mentor you is up to you =) People skills.

        By the way, if you have to drive 10 hours to get to a meetup ... Do it.

        What is your Mentors name?
        Does he have a website?
        Does he teach others/or want to?
        I don't think he'd want me to share. He doesn't teach, he just happened to be staying with a friend of mine when he was in SF.

        And the final question is if its possible for a total newbie that has pre studied google adwords and how everything works about CTR, LP, Quality Score etc before starting, can start with a budget as low as 495$?

        If that is the case, should i promote CPA offers to begin with instead of Clickbank products?
        1) Yes, you can. Choose a network that will give you weekly payments quickly. Work with SMALL networks, not big networks to start. Test small before you scale, work quickly. You can definitely make it work on AdWords.

        If you find it tough to start with AdWords with $495, you could use the blackhat Yahoo coupon trick.

        Yahoo coupon trick: Find a Yahoo coupon online for $75. The coupon will give you $75 in free advertising credits, but you need to deposit $30.

        Use PayPal to generate an unlimited number of virtual credit cards, open X accounts and turn your $495 budget into a $1,700 budget.

        Not endorsed or recommended by me, but it is an option ; )

        2) Yes, CPA. Do not touch Clickbank. Do. Not. Touch. Clickbank.
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        • Profile picture of the author SoundsGood
          Originally Posted by Derek Pankaew View Post

          2) Yes, CPA.
          Any particular products? ...segments? ...type of offer? ...etc?
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          • Profile picture of the author Derek Pankaew
            Originally Posted by SoundsGood View Post

            Any particular products? ...segments? ...type of offer? ...etc?
            Man ... Stop asking me that ;/ if I knew something would convert, I'd be doing it. If I were doing it, I wouldn't share it. As much as I love you guys, I'm not going to share my converting markets for more people to hop into.

            What I don't know converts but I think "might" convert is just as good as your guess. Really, the only way to know is to test. I've done as many as 8 campaigns without finding a converting campaign. You just need to keep digging until you hit gold.

            Test test test and test some more.

            Basically, get into markets that other people are making money in. Auto insurance, credit reports, debt consolidation, health, whatever. Opt for markets that have competition rather than markets that don't.

            But in the end, just test your ass off. Don't mean to sound harsh, but you're not gonna make it by asking other people what works, you gotta figure it out for yourself.
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            • Profile picture of the author Learnanew
              Originally Posted by Derek Pankaew View Post

              Man ... Stop asking me that ;/ if I knew something would convert, I'd be doing it. If I were doing it, I wouldn't share it. As much as I love you guys, I'm not going to share my converting markets for more people to hop into.

              What I don't know converts but I think "might" convert is just as good as your guess. Really, the only way to know is to test. I've done as many as 8 campaigns without finding a converting campaign. You just need to keep digging until you hit gold.

              Test test test and test some more.

              Basically, get into markets that other people are making money in. Auto insurance, credit reports, debt consolidation, health, whatever. Opt for markets that have competition rather than markets that don't.

              But in the end, just test your ass off. Don't mean to sound harsh, but you're not gonna make it by asking other people what works, you gotta figure it out for yourself.
              Thanks again for everything Derek.

              Now I just gotta get my ass off of this forum and start testing.
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              • Profile picture of the author Derek Pankaew
                Originally Posted by Learnanew View Post

                Thanks again for everything Derek.

                Now I just gotta get my ass off of this forum and start testing.
                Do it man ; )

                Originally Posted by Best Affiliate View Post

                would anyone recommend PPC Classroom? I get a lot of emails from them and they seem to sell out every time they have a class. Just wondering im looking to get into PPC affiliate marketing as well looking for good affiliate products. Thanks in advance
                I've heard good things about it, though I've never used it myself. It's definitely worth the $50 a month or whatever it is they charge.
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              • Profile picture of the author steveweber
                Hi Derek,

                One more quick question if I may. In 202, I'm lost on how to use the Global Tracking Pixel.

                Right now I am using CJ only. I don't think I can expect that most vendors will allow me to put a tracking pixel or URL on their thank you page.

                How then can conversions be tracked without the tracking on the thank you pages? It seems like the whole system of tracking would rely on that.

                Thank you very much for your help. I really do appreciate you!

                Steve
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                • Profile picture of the author dsm091
                  Derek,

                  Clickbank sucks. I joined offerati but I am still not making sales. One of my campaigns is pushing 6% ctr now. Market health is not working either. Do I just keep testing and switching campaigns after a week or 50 bucks or so? Or do I push it and change the ads up?

                  I am willing to put in the effort here to make some sales. I just cant seem to figure it out. Just keep trying??

                  Jayson
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                • Profile picture of the author Derek Pankaew
                  Originally Posted by steveweber View Post

                  Hi Derek,

                  One more quick question if I may. In 202, I'm lost on how to use the Global Tracking Pixel.

                  Right now I am using CJ only. I don't think I can expect that most vendors will allow me to put a tracking pixel or URL on their thank you page.

                  How then can conversions be tracked without the tracking on the thank you pages? It seems like the whole system of tracking would rely on that.

                  Thank you very much for your help. I really do appreciate you!

                  Steve
                  I don't use tracking pixels at all.

                  Prosper 202 assigns a unique SubID to each visitor. The SubID is appended to your click thru link. When you make a sale, the SubID is recorded. You re-upload that SubID into Prosper and Prosper gives you all the data about where that sale came from.

                  Originally Posted by dsm091 View Post

                  Derek,

                  Clickbank sucks. I joined offerati but I am still not making sales. One of my campaigns is pushing 6% ctr now. Market health is not working either. Do I just keep testing and switching campaigns after a week or 50 bucks or so? Or do I push it and change the ads up?

                  I am willing to put in the effort here to make some sales. I just cant seem to figure it out. Just keep trying??

                  Jayson
                  Yup. Remember - About 5-8 of my ideas will fail before one actually hits. So if you "fail," just keep on trying again.

                  Affiliate marketing is a bit like banging your head against a drywood wall. It hurts for a while as you bang your head into it, but eventually it'll go through ; )

                  What a terrible analogy

                  Originally Posted by thenicer View Post

                  @Derek Pankaew

                  May I know where you get the landing page? Who provide the landing page? Written buy your own or provided by merchant?
                  I do all my landing pages myself.
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            • Profile picture of the author SoundsGood
              Originally Posted by Derek Pankaew View Post

              Man ... Stop asking me that ;/ if I knew something would convert, I'd be doing it. If I were doing it, I wouldn't share it. As much as I love you guys, I'm not going to share my converting markets for more people to hop into.
              I wasn't asking for the exact things you are promoting... just some vague tips to point us in the right direction.

              Originally Posted by Derek Pankaew View Post

              Basically, get into markets that other people are making money in. Auto insurance, credit reports, debt consolidation, health, whatever. Opt for markets that have competition rather than markets that don't.
              Thanks!
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  • Profile picture of the author bannor32
    Thanks for the tips. Adwords is such a tough nut to crack. By using your recommendations it gives newbies a fighting chance of making a go of it without losing their shirt. Thanks very much for sharing.
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  • Profile picture of the author Best Affiliate
    would anyone recommend PPC Classroom? I get a lot of emails from them and they seem to sell out every time they have a class. Just wondering im looking to get into PPC affiliate marketing as well looking for good affiliate products. Thanks in advance
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    • Profile picture of the author mediaguy
      Originally Posted by Best Affiliate View Post

      would anyone recommend PPC Classroom? I get a lot of emails from them and they seem to sell out every time they have a class. Just wondering im looking to get into PPC affiliate marketing as well looking for good affiliate products. Thanks in advance

      As far as the learning experience goes - yes I would recommend them but one thing I hate is I have used them in the past and now I get 3-4 emails a day from them trying to sell me some one elses product or service which leads me to believe that they are not actually making money with PPC but making money more on the lines of with there sign up list. They know people are hungry for money or the means to make money so they exploit that to the end of days... Now mind you I only paid $1.00 to get into to there course lol... which was awesome - so now all I do is just read what notes I took down that month. But forget a course - just do it - the best way is just to do it - take a little from everyone and try different things out and add your own spin to it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Marian Berghes
    As far as forums and communities around PPC i only know 2 that I consider to get in: PPC Coach or PPC Classroom...both have made alot of newbies from 0$ to thousands a day, all the coaches are guys that either are super affiliates or know theyr stuff.

    Still trying to decide
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  • Profile picture of the author Gooddeal86
    yea i'm in ppc coach just recently. its good tho, they hav heaps of tools and guides to use.

    need an affiliate meetup in Australia! common
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  • Profile picture of the author helenback
    good tips
    my post before yours, "paying too much for ppc" ask some of the questions you answered, but how do you edit your bids, if you have alot of keywords do you still do it manually?
    helen
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    • Profile picture of the author Derek Pankaew
      Originally Posted by helenback View Post

      good tips
      my post before yours, "paying too much for ppc" ask some of the questions you answered, but how do you edit your bids, if you have alot of keywords do you still do it manually?
      helen
      Hey Helen,

      Use AdWords editor. You can select a campaign and see all the keywords in that campaign simultaneously.

      Sort by Clicks or Impressions first and tweak the bids on your top performing keywords first. Do these by hand. You can choose amounts yourself or do percentages (advanced bid changes on the bottom.)

      Then sort by ad position. You don't actually know if a term is good or not until you get it to page 1 and start getting some traffic, so anything position 8-12 increase the bids.

      Basically, stop using the web interface and start using AdWords Editor.

      DSM: Awesome man =)
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  • Profile picture of the author helenback
    often launch with as many as 5,000 keywords; doing that in the web interface would take months.

    sorry to post again but please can you tell me how you edit 5000 keyword bids,
    can you show me your method
    thankyou helen
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    • Profile picture of the author dsm091
      Derek,
      You just made my week. I have been doing really crappy lately on my sales. I am in the weight loss niche and software for Spyware. I stick to what I know and I am just starting out. After reading this thread I pulled out my credit card and signed up for google adwords. I set a limit of $50 bucks a month to start testing.

      I am absolutely amazed at how easy this is to get clicks. I had the websites and landing pages done but the traffic I was getting from Articles was minimal. I wrote some ads last night over a beer and basically looked at the other ads in my niche. I used the keyword tool and went after the lowest competition. I added all of those keywords to my adds. I created 5 variations of each ad and let them run.

      I checked them this morning and I paid $1.56 for 9,625 views and got 2 clicks. Man this got me excited. To me $1.56 is totally worth it for that many views. Now I just need to figure out the ad design to make people click on them. I will never go back to article writing. Too much work!

      Thanks again!!
      Signature
      We need men who can dream of things that never were. John F. Kennedy

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  • Profile picture of the author Johnny12345
    Derek,

    I heard a webinar with Aymen, the CPA Arbitrage Conspiracy guy. He said two things that really caught my attention:

    1) He said anyone who promotes a product with reviews -- without buying/trying the product first -- should be ashamed.

    2) He said the United States government is cracking down on phony review sites.

    Do you have any thoughts on these two points?

    Thanks,
    Johnny
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    • Profile picture of the author Derek Pankaew
      Originally Posted by Johnny12345 View Post

      Derek,

      I heard a webinar with Aymen, the CPA Arbitrage Conspiracy guy. He said two things that really caught my attention:

      1) He said anyone who promotes a product with reviews -- without buying/trying the product first -- should be ashamed.

      2) He said the United States government is cracking down on phony review sites.

      Do you have any thoughts on these two points?

      Thanks,
      Johnny
      Hey Johnny,

      Integrity and values is really completely up to you. I've found that there are many, many, MANY grey lines in affiliate marketing when it comes to integrity.

      If you promote a rebill product like ****, RezV, etc as a "free" bottle that's actually a rebill, some might say you're scamming people. Others don't care.

      Personally, I don't do rebills.

      On the other hand, some people don't do Payday loans because they know the default rate is high and they feel responsible for damaging people's financial future.

      For me personally, with a payday loan you're an adult making a fully informed financial decision. Unlike rebills which are often unclear, with payday loans you make a clear choice to borrow money and if you fail to repay that was your responsibility. Also, if I'm bidding on "payday loan" terms, I'm really just taking someone who would likely have gotten a loan somewhere and moved them to my offer instead.

      So, in my personal code payday loans are fine while rebills are mostly out of integrity. That's just me though - Many marketers have it the other way around.

      For me, doing review sites without really trying the product isn't all that big a deal. When I check in with my gut instinct, it doesn't tell me "I'm doing something wrong." That's the signal I listen to. That's the signal that tells me not to do rebills; and it doesn't really go off for review sites.

      I guess that's my 2 cents on the matter. That said, you really do have to decide for yourself. There are many, many grey lines in this business. Once you really start marketing, you'll see just how much shade shit people will do to make money. Not just affiliates - Networks and advertisers too.

      Anyway. G'luck with your decision =)
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  • Profile picture of the author Marian Berghes
    Your LP doesn't really have to be a review at all...you can just pull some articles from directories or something and use them on your landing page to a create a small website but filled with call to action everywhere.

    Hope this makes sense.
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  • Profile picture of the author SoundsGood
    I'm new to Adwords (haven't even started yet ) but not to affiliate marketing. For me... if an offer looks fishy, or if it looks like something I myself would not be comfortable doing, I don't promote it. Simple as that.
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    • Profile picture of the author chaumi
      Got to say a massive thanks to Derek for this. Been struggling to work out QS, getting wiped for a 1/10, why it's a 1/10 etc for weeks...

      and I've seen a 7/10 yesterday go to a 10/10 this morning thanks to changes implemented yesterday thanks to Derek's info.

      Cheers
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      • Profile picture of the author Mathias
        Hi Derek and everyone else, i just almost finished my CPA site so i am gonna be excepted by the networks, what do you guys think of my site?

        Can i be excepted by OppBizNetwork and Neverblueads with this site? :confused:

        This is not for promoting my site, its for reviewing only.

        w w w dot mbconsulting dot se
        Sorry but i am missing some post to be able to link
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      • Profile picture of the author Derek Pankaew
        Originally Posted by chaumi View Post

        Got to say a massive thanks to Derek for this. Been struggling to work out QS, getting wiped for a 1/10, why it's a 1/10 etc for weeks...

        and I've seen a 7/10 yesterday go to a 10/10 this morning thanks to changes implemented yesterday thanks to Derek's info.

        Cheers
        That's a sweet testimonial

        Hi Derek and everyone else, i just almost finished my CPA site so i am gonna be excepted by the networks, what do you guys think of my site?

        Can i be excepted by OppBizNetwork and Neverblueads with this site?

        This is not for promoting my site, its for reviewing only.

        w w w dot mbconsulting dot se
        Sorry but i am missing some post to be able to link
        Yeah you'll probably be fine. Neverblue accepts most apps, never heard of OBN.

        I just started with Adwords and, though I know the basics, I'm no expert. My campaigns just got approved and I started getting traffic (the past 2 days). I have a review site comparing 3 Clickbank products. I have about 20 to 30 keywords per 3 adds and have 6 adds running. I haven't made any sales, but have gotten a few subscribers through opt-in.

        I'd really like to know what to do to improve conversion and, well, basically, start making sales. I can send you the site in a PM if you wouldn't mind giving me some pointers.

        Awesome post by the way.
        Thanks =)

        1) Don't promote clickbank. Already went over that; you're fighting a *way* uphill battle.

        2) Way more keywords, way more ads.

        Unless you're bidding on uber-volume keywords, 40 keywords isn't going to get you nearly enough traffic to make any money. Start with 400 instead, make sure they each at least get 1,000 searches a month.

        As a guideline, you want your total impressions in the Google Keyword Tool to be at least 500,000 for it to be worth your time. Anything less I wouldn't do it at all.

        1 keyword per ad group, 1 ad per keyword.
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        • Profile picture of the author Mathias
          Thanks Derek.

          Sorry! I ment TheBizOppNetwork.com :rolleyes:
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        • Profile picture of the author kennyk3
          Originally Posted by Derek Pankaew View Post


          1) Don't promote clickbank. Already went over that; you're fighting a *way* uphill battle.

          2) Way more keywords, way more ads.

          Unless you're bidding on uber-volume keywords, 40 keywords isn't going to get you nearly enough traffic to make any money. Start with 400 instead, make sure they each at least get 1,000 searches a month.

          As a guideline, you want your total impressions in the Google Keyword Tool to be at least 500,000 for it to be worth your time. Anything less I wouldn't do it at all.

          1 keyword per ad group, 1 ad per keyword.
          Thanks so much for the help. When you say 1 keyword per ad group, does it matter how many ads. As in, 3 ads per 1 keyword. Or is it one ad per one keyword?

          Thanks again!
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          • Profile picture of the author dsm091
            Derek-

            Another question for you. How long do you stick with a product if you are not making any sales? I have 46 clicks and no sales over 3 days. Do you change the product?

            I have 3 campaigns running and all of them are getting clicks but no sales. One is clickbank, one is offerati, one is blue penguin so I am not just using clickbank. I have 5 ads in each campaign that are rotating and google does a good job of putting the best one out there more often.

            Do I let them ride? Do I change the keywords? Thanks!!
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          • Profile picture of the author naonline
            Originally Posted by kennyk3 View Post

            Thanks so much for the help. When you say 1 keyword per ad group, does it matter how many ads. As in, 3 ads per 1 keyword. Or is it one ad per one keyword?

            Thanks again!
            You should always split test with 2 ads per adgroup. Make sure you set ad serving to 'rotate' and not 'optimize' in your campaign settings.

            Don't edit an ad, add a new one first then pause the one that's getting the lower ctr.

            Nick
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  • Profile picture of the author kennyk3
    I just started with Adwords and, though I know the basics, I'm no expert. My campaigns just got approved and I started getting traffic (the past 2 days). I have a review site comparing 3 Clickbank products. I have about 20 to 30 keywords per 3 adds and have 6 adds running. I haven't made any sales, but have gotten a few subscribers through opt-in.

    I'd really like to know what to do to improve conversion and, well, basically, start making sales. I can send you the site in a PM if you wouldn't mind giving me some pointers.

    Awesome post by the way.
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  • Profile picture of the author ManAbout
    Derek,

    A couple of questions:

    1) You mention having a lot of keywords. My question is, how?? How closely related should they be to your product? I have been doing PPC for a while now, not selling anything, just for my own niche dating sites. I do fine with those. But, I am using less than a 100 keywords. How do you find 5000 keywords for a niche??! If you take Resveratrol for example. Are there that many relevant keywords?

    2) I already have an Adwords account, one that I have had for a number of years. As I said, I am using it to send traffic to my dating sites. Should I use the same Adwords account for trying out PPC marketing? I don't want to adversely affect my current campaigns or Adwords account by experimenting with PPC.

    Thanks!
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  • Profile picture of the author Marian Berghes
    there are different strategies...some people like to use loads of keywords some people use fewer, depends on your "system".

    You will see in different courses that some of them tell you to start out with 50-200 keywords and use broad match while others might use 1-2k and use phrase and exact match...depends how you learn.

    I have 2 PPC>CPA courses now (that im learning before diving in ) and they both are made by guys that do 10-20k$/day, but they each have 80% different systems.
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  • Profile picture of the author askloz
    Nice one Derek, but you know what? After reading all these pages, you dont mention anything about geo targeting, to laser targeted towns, cities, boroughs, countries (like UK which pulls out cheaper clicks when using Adwords in the US), to bring down your cost and increase your CTR even more...

    When ya double your monthly commissions, let me know.
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    • Profile picture of the author Derek Pankaew
      Originally Posted by askloz View Post

      Nice one Derek, but you know what? After reading all these pages, you dont mention anything about geo targeting, to laser targeted towns, cities, boroughs, countries (like UK which pulls out cheaper clicks when using Adwords in the US), to bring down your cost and increase your CTR even more...

      When ya double your monthly commissions, let me know.
      That is a sweet tip. Thanks bud

      Hi Derek,

      It is so great article.. But if I can jump here and ask you if you can help me survive my one month campaign witch it is not making any click so far..

      I started mine on about a month with selective keywords..

      No results !!! even my site not shown in google search engine..

      Derek .. I am a newbie ,, so please help me step by step..

      Your quick help most appreciated..

      Anwar
      Ummm ... You're gonna have to give me more info to help you. What kind of keywords, what your bids are, how much competition, etc.

      If you're bidding on "Debt Relief" for 0.20 cents, you're not gonna get any clicks that's for sure.

      Thanks so much for the help. When you say 1 keyword per ad group, does it matter how many ads. As in, 3 ads per 1 keyword. Or is it one ad per one keyword?

      Thanks again!
      What Naoonline said =)

      Another question for you. How long do you stick with a product if you are not making any sales? I have 46 clicks and no sales over 3 days. Do you change the product?
      A good rule of thumb is 2x the payout per keyword. So if my payout is $25, I'll spend $50 to see if it converts.

      You can do it on a per keyword level or a per "group of keywords" level. For example, if you're doing dating all your "dating tips" keywords combined and all your "get laid" keywords combined.

      That said, I'll often times kill something just on "gut feel." ie. "This campaign ain't working, it's gone."

      1) Is there a maximum CPC that you should keep your bids under, or does it depend on the product? I start to get nervous with any CPC over $0.25.

      2) When do you pull the plug on a campaign if it is not profitable? After spending say $50 dollars? Or after sending a certain number of clicks to your landing page, 100, 1000 or what ever?
      1) Totally depends. On zip submits I may need to get $0.05 cent clicks to be profitable. On debt relief, $2 clicks might be profitable.

      2) See above - 2x payout is the rule, though I make exceptions on judgement calls.
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      • Profile picture of the author Learnanew
        One last question from me Derek.

        When picking out new offers to promote is it best to test 3 different offers in the same niche, e.g do ****, green tea diet, and another diet pill cpa offer, or go all over the place and pick 3 offers from completely different niches.

        I feel like I'm delving too deep into this and should just go and test, but I'm pretty anxious about losing alot of money.

        Thanks again Derek.
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        • Profile picture of the author Derek Pankaew
          Originally Posted by Learnanew View Post

          One last question from me Derek.

          When picking out new offers to promote is it best to test 3 different offers in the same niche, e.g do ****, green tea diet, and another diet pill cpa offer, or go all over the place and pick 3 offers from completely different niches.

          I feel like I'm delving too deep into this and should just go and test, but I'm pretty anxious about losing alot of money.

          Thanks again Derek.
          Yeah just test. Really, action is #1.

          To answer your question, I'd test 3 different offers in the same product range. ie. I'd test 3 different **** products rather than testing 3 different diet products. That's because I already know **** will out pull just about any other diet product.

          Have your "feet" dipped in many different pools. Promote many different offers. Test like a mad motha ****er =)
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  • Profile picture of the author macclub
    Hi Derek,

    It is so great article.. But if I can jump here and ask you if you can help me survive my one month campaign witch it is not making any click so far..

    I started mine on about a month with selective keywords..

    No results !!! even my site not shown in google search engine..

    Derek .. I am a newbie ,, so please help me step by step..

    Your quick help most appreciated..

    Anwar
    Signature

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  • Profile picture of the author DrAl
    Derek, I have spent the last few months learning all I can to get started in the adwords CPA arena and I got to say the information is concise and to the point and really informative. Awesome
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  • Profile picture of the author ManAbout
    1) Is there a maximum CPC that you should keep your bids under, or does it depend on the product? I start to get nervous with any CPC over $0.25.

    2) When do you pull the plug on a campaign if it is not profitable? After spending say $50 dollars? Or after sending a certain number of clicks to your landing page, 100, 1000 or what ever?
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  • Profile picture of the author Lillian
    Great post. Learned a lot. Thanks
    Signature

    Lillian

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  • Profile picture of the author elitepostings
    Tip #0 - Don't Be Afraid to Pay for Traffic

    Most beginners are so focused on bum market, SEO and other free traffic sources that they put almost no attention on paid traffic.

    Yet paid traffic is just so much easier to scale than free traffic. If you find an offer that converts at $0.40 a click, then as many clicks as you can get for $0.20 you're doubling your money. It's that simple.





    Paid traffic is the best traffic to get anyone rolling.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kezz
    Hi Derek,

    Not to ask you to share too many secrets, but I was wondering if you wouldn't mind giving some of your thoughts on what is most important for a CPA landing page or landing site?

    I'm kind of getting the idea that landing pages are somewhat redundant now, given the low quality score you'll get, and that a landing site with content is more effective.

    If that is the case, I'd love it if you could share some of what you believe to be the key principles for effective landings sites.

    Thankyou!
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    • Profile picture of the author Derek Pankaew
      Originally Posted by Kezz View Post

      Hi Derek,

      Not to ask you to share too many secrets, but I was wondering if you wouldn't mind giving some of your thoughts on what is most important for a CPA landing page or landing site?

      I'm kind of getting the idea that landing pages are somewhat redundant now, given the low quality score you'll get, and that a landing site with content is more effective.

      If that is the case, I'd love it if you could share some of what you believe to be the key principles for effective landings sites.

      Thankyou!
      Heh, yeah working on that one. I was actually doing some greyhat style Quality Score stuff that just got slapped last week. (Stuffing content into 1x1 pixel <div> tag overflow:hidden.) It worked for a while but not so much anymore.

      What converts and what Google wants are two different things:

      1) Generally, everything above the fold, proof elements and big fat buttons get the highest CTRs. Big, fat buttons.

      2) What Google wants is *NO* advertising, *PURE* content that you're giving to your visitors.

      So you could put a bunch of content below the fold. That's one way to do it. Big one button LPs definitely don't work on AdWords anymore, but I'd want the *MAIN* elements above the fold.
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  • Profile picture of the author debtfreehispanic
    Great info Derek, I am going to start using Adwords and I think the Excel idea is going to work for me. Thanks for sharing.
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  • Profile picture of the author steveweber
    Hi Derek,

    Do you suggest prosper202 or tracking 202? ....and why.

    Thanks!
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    • Profile picture of the author Derek Pankaew
      Originally Posted by steveweber View Post

      Hi Derek,

      Do you suggest prosper202 or tracking 202? ....and why.

      Thanks!
      Well they're really the same. Prosper 202 is self-hosted, tracking 202 is hosted on 202's servers. I recommend using Prosper so the data stays on your end, your uptime depends on your server, etc. It's just more secure.

      At the moment I can't really recommend Pro yet ... I love the 202 guys but pro just ain't where it needs to be for me to give props yet :/

      If you're asking why use Prosper at all - It's basically the best tracking software out there. Period. And it's free.

      - Derek
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  • Profile picture of the author AndrewL
    What type of products are you selling that is high enough profit to justify buying your traffic?
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    • Profile picture of the author socksiong
      Hey Derek, thanx for the post! I was just thinking about the 1 keyword per adgroup thing when I was on my way to work today. Would you recommend dynamic keyword?

      Noob Qns:I'm a noob to warriorforum, how do I thank someone for a post?
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    • Profile picture of the author Derek Pankaew
      Originally Posted by AndrewL View Post

      What type of products are you selling that is high enough profit to justify buying your traffic?
      Tons of products have high enough profit to work with AdWords. I'm obviously not going to reveal what I'm actually promoting right now, but as I mentioned in my first post the most important number is your earnings per click.

      If your EPC is $0.60, then every click you can get for $0.30 means you're doubling your money. It's not hard, it's just math.

      Hey Derek, thanx for the post! I was just thinking about the 1 keyword per adgroup thing when I was on my way to work today. Would you recommend dynamic keyword?

      Noob Qns:I'm a noob to warriorforum, how do I thank someone for a post?
      Nah - I recommend hard coding the keyword into your ads. You'll subtly write better ads because they'll be more tailored.

      I also think it's better for Quality Score to actually hard code your KW into your ads.

      I know 3 guys that have had their servers hacked and their data stolen from using Prosper202..its not that the program is bad is just that some hosting companies have no idea about security.

      How about StatsJunky? I see alot of super-affiliates use it. And it really seems v good.
      Yikes!

      I've actually never met anyone who uses StatsJunky. I tried to get a feel for it from their site but wasn't really impressed. I'd love to check it out though; Prosper does have it's limitations.

      Hi Derek,

      If all your ad groups point back to the the same landing page on your site, how can you use subID's to track conversions? You'd need a different landing page with a unique subID for each ad group's ad...correct?

      Thank You!
      Aaand that's one of the limitations I'm talking about ; )

      Yes, if you want to track conversion rate on your ads you will need to generate a seperate tracking link for each ad. Obviously, if you have 1,000 keywords that is a major pain in the ass.

      I just use one link across the whole campaign. When I split test ads, I track CTR but not conversion rate. I do track conversions on a keyword level, just not on an ad vs. ad level.

      If you're asking how to track conversions on the keyword level, the keyword variable is inserted into the URL dynamically with {keyword}
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      • Profile picture of the author ClearWater404
        Originally Posted by Marian Berghes View Post

        ...

        How about StatsJunky? I see alot of super-affiliates use it. And it really seems v good.

        have used StatsJunky for just over a month.

        I love the sleek interface and how the information is presented. Makes it easy to work with,

        BUT

        have been trying to get their support to implement keyword tracking properly on my setup, working with cloaked links (php redirects), but their support is not good: they don't know how to set this up properly and I have been told that a "developer" would get back to me once they figured out how to do it. Has been a month now and I am still waiting...

        not very impressive.

        However, I would love it to work, as all my stats (revenue and expenses) from all sites and networks would be in one place, with stats down to the keyword level, including impressions, CTR, conversions...etc
        my 2 cents
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        • Profile picture of the author Derek Pankaew
          Hey Guys,

          Sorry I neglected this thread for a couple weeks. Been really busy.

          For example, even a tip like "avoid weight loss, loans, ringtones" would be good, but even more helpful might be "go for email/zips" or "teeth whitening" or whatever.

          I'll have no more than about $100/day to spend. I know that's not a lot but I don't think I could make the progress with much less (some may disagree).
          Avoid all 3 you mentioned *UNLESS* you can find a unique angle that will set you apart from your competition. Don't pay $2 per click on words like "**** Berry" - That's suicide.

          If you can find keywords where you're paying $.50 cents or less per click, go for it.

          Now, according to the given stats and EPC and bids, those niches MUST make money, otherwise there wouldnt be such high bids, right?

          I would like to know whether you're currently doing some of those niches (mind you, i am not an adwords newbie either ...
          Nah, I'm not doing any of the big rebills. I might make more money if I did

          The CPCs are insanely high, but many of the affiliates are just idiots. If you watch the front page for "Resveratrol," you'll see that nobody stays on page1 for more than 2 weeks. People just come, blow their budget and leave, then the next guy comes and takes their place.

          Do you actually do A/B testing of ads, and if so, how do you manage it for thousands of keywords and ad groups (assuming 1 ad group per keyword)? Do you just focus on the most productive or do you work your butt off at all of them?
          Just focus on high volume ones. Also, group your ads. So over 100 keywords I might have 200 different ads, but they're really just 2 ads multipled 100 times. If I find 1 variation converts better than the other, I can delete the other ad from all the adgroups simultaneously.

          When (and if) doing A/B testing of two ads, by how much percentage and for how long does B need to beat A before you decide to scrap A, keep B and bring a new challenger into the mix?
          :::SplitTester.com::: =)

          What do you do when an A/B isn't showing conclusive results for a good while, as in neither A nor B seem to pull out ahead *or* they both get spikes and seem to pull out ahead of the other at random times without a clear winner?
          If you're making money, let it run. If you're losing money ... Then I wouldn't let it run.

          I find very few offers that are in between crappy zip submits and offers with insane CPC's (****, Debt, etc..)

          Do we just need to dig deeper, or think out side the box to lower ad spend?
          There are actually quite a few offers that are outside of that box. You just need to dig deeper.

          Also, even in the "big offers" there are many untapped subniches. For example, in debt I did a "Single Moms in Debt" landing page for a while. I didn't manage to make that work, but that's just an example.

          What would you advise on using to get LPs for CPA offers ? Currently, this is what slowing my campaign launches.
          Copy someone or make your own =)

          Derek,

          I think with your methodical approach you really should be cranking into image ads on the content network - this is where you can really get some volume and less competition.

          I'll add to that, it is worth building a huge list - then you can leverage that 5k a month into much much more with the use of auto responders and email offers....

          Well done
          Man, I've tried content network soo many times now and still haven't made money.

          I'm determined! I will make it work - Eventually ...

          How do you seperate your keywords using the match types..
          i know you use one keyword per ad but do you group that one keyword using all three match types under 1 ad..for instance
          1 KW per adgroup with all match types in that adgroup.

          at this point...i'd say dont bother with broad matches. You can try those later, but phrase/exact...then test a little...then try broad if you feel brave.
          I've actually made a lot of money from Broad matches ... I'd say just bid less but stick it in there and see what happens anyway.

          Cheers,

          - Derek
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          • Profile picture of the author Derek Pankaew
            Finally Decided to Do Mentoring

            Hey Guys,

            I've gotten so many PMs and questions over the last couple months that it doesn't really make sense for me to keep turning everyone down anymore.

            I've decided to just charge for coaching. $47/month, get all your questions answered, members-only forum, 3 training videos when you join, new training video every 2 weeks and a coaching call every month.

            Read more here, signup here.
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  • Profile picture of the author Marian Berghes
    I know 3 guys that have had their servers hacked and their data stolen from using Prosper202..its not that the program is bad is just that some hosting companies have no idea about security.

    How about StatsJunky? I see alot of super-affiliates use it. And it really seems v good.
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  • Profile picture of the author ManAbout
    I just got accepted to a couple of networks. And my first observation is that the EPC seems so, well, low! How does one really make money off these things? Even for a niche like dating the EPC is only around 0.20 to 0.30.

    The only offers that seem to have high EPC are in health/beauty and IM. And I am sure everybody and their dog is running PPC ads for them.

    So, back to my question, how can you MAKE MONEY with this?

    Confused....
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    • Profile picture of the author Derek Pankaew
      Originally Posted by ManAbout View Post

      I just got accepted to a couple of networks. And my first observation is that the EPC seems so, well, low! How does one really make money off these things? Even for a niche like dating the EPC is only around 0.20 to 0.30.

      The only offers that seem to have high EPC are in health/beauty and IM. And I am sure everybody and their dog is running PPC ads for them.

      So, back to my question, how can you MAKE MONEY with this?

      Confused....
      Good question. Answer:

      EPC Stats From Networks Are 100% Absolutely Useless

      The EPC stats you see on networks are the overall stats for an offer throughout a wide range of promotional tactics.

      For example, one person may be paying 0.005 per visitor using PPV ads. They only need an EPC of a penny to double their money. They run thousands of visitors to the offer every day and drag down the EPC of the offer as a whole.

      The EPC numbers provided by the networks include EPCs from veterans and newbies alike. Often times newbies will send a bunch of crap traffic and then leave, sometimes blowing thousands of dollars in the process. This also lowers EPCs.

      In short, EPCs from networks are guidelines, nothing more. I often get EPCs that are 5x what the network stats say they are because the quality of my traffic is high.

      And to answer your question, there's probably a way to make money with any offer on the network.

      G'luck.
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  • Profile picture of the author mediamogul
    This is all tremendous info! Thanks Derek and all the others for enlightening me!
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  • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.
    this is one of the most inspiring threads *ever* - as someone re-locating back to EU i always had problems with CPA networks - but i JUST made it into Neverblue.

    I think i do have the experience with Adwords to try this...and needless to say i am very hyped. I should have read the whole thread before i asked you some questions in the PM.

    Priceless information in this thread.

    I am planning to use my own tool affiliatesitequick to make the landers - but now i am unsure whether this falls under "white label"..i will just try this. I use it for clickbank for years already and i am positive it will work with nerverblue also. this would allow me to immediately build high quality score landers based on the affiliate links on neverblue.

    Derek: What is your experience on content network with banner creatives? I just made a new campaign in a pretty competive niche (no, its not ****)...and i use content network but keyword based. I uploaded all available banner creatives to adwords - and i use a "clone" lander on my domain. I will monitor how it goes.

    Add: I am also looking into option slike craigslist advertising...aka "free trial samples for XYZ" or similar. The problem really is that some of the good looking products are in VERY competive markets like "weight loss"and adwords might be very tough in those niches.
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    • Profile picture of the author Derek Pankaew
      Originally Posted by GeorgR. View Post

      this is one of the most inspiring threads *ever* - as someone re-locating back to EU i always had problems with CPA networks - but i JUST made it into Neverblue.

      I think i do have the experience with Adwords to try this...and needless to say i am very hyped. I should have read the whole thread before i asked you some questions in the PM.

      Priceless information in this thread.

      I am planning to use my own tool affiliatesitequick to make the landers - but now i am unsure whether this falls under "white label"..i will just try this. I use it for clickbank for years already and i am positive it will work with nerverblue also. this would allow me to immediately build high quality score landers based on the affiliate links on neverblue.

      Derek: What is your experience on content network with banner creatives? I just made a new campaign in a pretty competive niche (no, its not ****)...and i use content network but keyword based. I uploaded all available banner creatives to adwords - and i use a "clone" lander on my domain. I will monitor how it goes.

      Add: I am also looking into option slike craigslist advertising...aka "free trial samples for XYZ" or similar. The problem really is that some of the good looking products are in VERY competive markets like "weight loss"and adwords might be very tough in those niches.
      1) Mentioned earlier, I haven't made money with content network. I've done banner creatives and broke even before, but not profitable.

      2) My opinion is that Craigslist isn't worth the time. I don't know anyone making more than $20-$30 an hour doing Craigslist. It would be just as easy to setup a campaign that would make you $50 a day. IMO my time is much better spent elsewhere.

      It's not whitelabeling btw - That's just building your own LP. Whilelabeling is when you control the offer page itself and pass data to the merchant.
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      • Profile picture of the author Thumoney
        Originally Posted by Derek Pankaew View Post

        Originally Posted by GeorgR. View Post

        Derek: What is your experience on content network with banner creatives? I just made a new campaign in a pretty competive niche (no, its not ****)...and i use content network but keyword based. I uploaded all available banner creatives to adwords - and i use a "clone" lander on my domain. I will monitor how it goes.
        1) Mentioned earlier, I haven't made money with content network. I've done banner creatives and broke even before, but not profitable.
        I have made profits on the content-network using banner ads. In fact my ROI is often better than on search here (not always of course, it depends on the product and the targeting (placements, keywords), and then on the creatives).

        The most difficult part is to keep the campaign running on a high volume. I know many say CTR is not that important on content, but what I observed in about 10 campaigns I run with volumes over 100 clicks a day is: Those campaigns that have a CTR of 0,5% and above stay in the game AND get cheaper CPCs. One campaign runs with $0.07 avg. CPC that started out with $0.40 and a volume of over 100,000 impressions a day.

        A small tip I like to mention: don't turn content campaigns that get a good volume off (unless it costing you terribly of course ). Because the moment you do it, you starting over again from scratch with it, fighting for positions and volume again. That was an info I first got from Glen Levingston's website in a webseminar and it looks true in my experience!?
        What you can do is set the budget to $1 or use ad-scheduling instead.
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  • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.
    Derek,

    i chose CPA since it is interesting to offer free trials.

    What is your view on using the term "free" in ads for CPA trial offers? ( I know its a big no-no otherwise.)
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    • Profile picture of the author Derek Pankaew
      Originally Posted by GeorgR. View Post

      Derek,

      i chose CPA since it is interesting to offer free trials.

      What is your view on using the term "free" in ads for CPA trial offers? ( I know its a big no-no otherwise.)
      You know, Perry Belcher says Free is a red flag, but I've also talked to six figure affiliates who say otherwise. I've never gotten slapped for using Free.

      I think it's fine.

      Default Re: AdWords Tips From a $5,000/mo Affiliate
      I have a question about Adwords and landing pages. I apologize if this has already been addressed.

      Does Adwords allow you to send directly to the merchant's site with your affiliate code in it? For example, if I am sending dating traffic to eharmony, can I send direct to their join page? Or do I have to send to my own landing page, and then encourage them to go to eharmony?

      Thanks!
      You need your own landing page.

      There are a couple blackhat ways to get around it, but you'll get caught in the end.
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  • Profile picture of the author ManAbout
    I have a question about Adwords and landing pages. I apologize if this has already been addressed.

    Does Adwords allow you to send directly to the merchant's site with your affiliate code in it? For example, if I am sending dating traffic to eharmony, can I send direct to their join page? Or do I have to send to my own landing page, and then encourage them to go to eharmony?

    Thanks!
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  • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.
    no, adwords doesnt allow using those links, and there are two reasons speaking against it:

    a) The affiliate links you get are usually encoded, so if you use a link like
    www.xvcsjw.com/?c=127&s=21 it would do a redirect to the real URL. Therefore your display/destination URL and the real (vendor) URL wont match. AW would complain because you used xvcsjw.com but the ad would actually land somewhere else.

    b) Let's say the real URL (after redirect) is www.somecompany6512.com Adwords doesnt allow multiple advertisers using the same URL. Even if it were the case that its allowed to use the vendor url..its VERY likely someone else would already use that URL. (In that case the one with the highest bid would stay and the others would not be displayed at all) correct me if i am wrong.
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  • Profile picture of the author garyv
    Hey Derek - Awesome tips!

    Question - have you tried building your own opt-in list thru ppc and then promoting CPA to your list? Just wondering if this might also be profitable, and a way to get more for your ppc money?

    Nice Thread - I'm going to have to increase my CPA efforts after reading this. Thanks for sharing.

    edit - also do you use a seperate domain name for every offer you promote?
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    • Profile picture of the author Derek Pankaew
      Originally Posted by garyv View Post

      Hey Derek - Awesome tips!

      Question - have you tried building your own opt-in list thru ppc and then promoting CPA to your list? Just wondering if this might also be profitable, and a way to get more for your ppc money?

      Nice Thread - I'm going to have to increase my CPA efforts after reading this. Thanks for sharing.

      edit - also do you use a seperate domain name for every offer you promote?
      1) No I haven't tried building a list and doing list > CPA, though I've heard of other people doing it profitably.

      2) Yes, different domain for every offer. I probably go through at least 5 domains a week.
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      • Profile picture of the author Learnanew
        doing list > CPA

        Sorry Derek, could you expand on this a little more?
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        • Profile picture of the author Derek Pankaew
          Hey Learanew,

          I was answering GaryV's question about whether or not I've used AdWords to build a list and then promote CPA offers. The answer was no, I haven't, although I have heard of other people doing it successfully.
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  • Profile picture of the author ManAbout
    Derek,

    You are a question answering machine.. so here are a couple more.. LOL

    1) We talked about EPC, and you said they were garbage. So, how about your own conversion ratio? What do you typically see on your offers? 1%? 10%?

    2) Regarding the domains for each offer, have you seen much difference in the CTR depending on the domain extension, i.e whether it is .com or .org or .info etc..

    Thanks!
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    • Profile picture of the author Derek Pankaew
      1) 20% - 30% on lead gen offers. 3% on sale offers.

      2) Never tested it.

      Good luck man =)
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  • Profile picture of the author ManAbout
    Derek,

    What are you using to create your landing pages? Also, do you know if there is a template out there for those review type landing pages?
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    • Profile picture of the author Derek Pankaew
      1) Dreamweaver

      2) I wouldn't use a template. If in doubt just base it off someone else's site. But don't use templates.
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  • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.
    Derek,

    i already made a few sites. You know what i did? I use their "email templates" and use them to build VERY simple sites around it. I got "great" quality score this way.

    Now..i have questions about particular programs i am promoting right now:

    The #1 EPC campaign for me is a "colon cleanse" product with a EPC of $1.887 and about $30 per sale, according to stats.

    I am bidding more on this compared to what i usually bid for clickbank products, but of course my bid is still BELOW the EPC If the EPC is only halfway "right" then this should work?

    Another niche i am promoting is screensavers, the EPC is way lower - but i personally very much like the banners and can see that they have a high CTR.

    I made landing pages for all of the products and the i THINK the landing pages are good. For the screensavers i bid less of course compared to the colon cleanse. The screensaver banners i put on Google content network - but also planning to get banner space from webmasters.

    Now, my question: Do you have thoughts about those niches, words of caution, things like that?

    Thank you!
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  • Profile picture of the author Myheavens
    Hello Derek Pankaew..Thanks for this amazing thread..My question is most people are running towards health,dating niche but why not in electronics n physical products ?? Suppose I want to promote a physical product say "hair strainer" ..You know that there are many types of it n suppose I create a review landing page of three best strainers..will this works ??

    In short. I want to know from you how can i promote electronics products via landing page + adwords ?? Please advise me
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  • Profile picture of the author Derek Pankaew
    Now, my question: Do you have thoughts about those niches, words of caution, things like that?
    Wait so - You're making money? Why ask for words of caution at all then?

    I mean, I could think of words of caution for both. Colon cleanse is immensely competitive, screensavers the EPCs are so low you may not make money. But hey, if you've already made it work, just keep doing what you're doing.

    Just one more word of caution - Be a little more protective of your markets If you have something that's working, don't post it on public message boards. Warrior Forum is pretty friendly, but the affiliate marketing/CPA world is total cut throat. People steal other people's stuff *all the time*.

    Hello Derek Pankaew..Thanks for this amazing thread..My question is most people are running towards health,dating niche but why not in electronics n physical products ?? Suppose I want to promote a physical product say "hair strainer" ..You know that there are many types of it n suppose I create a review landing page of three best strainers..will this works ??

    In short. I want to know from you how can i promote electronics products via landing page + adwords ?? Please advise me
    You could probably do it. It really depends on the mindset of the viewer. If they're in a "review" mood, then yes you can do a review landing page.

    In other words, for hair strainers if they don't really know what they're looking for, then a review page would do a great job of pre selling them.

    On the other hand, if they're in a BUY mood, say they're searching for the Nintendo Wii, and you try and sell them with a Nintendo Wii review - Well that wouldn't really make any sense. In this case they're looking for the Wii with the best games, the fastest shipping or the cheapest price. Your selling point isn't the review, it's what you can provide for them that others can't.

    Personally I've never done physical products, so I can't advise you too much.
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    • Profile picture of the author SoundsGood
      Originally Posted by Derek Pankaew View Post

      If you have something that's working, don't post it on public message boards.
      Exactly. Send the info directly to me via PM.
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  • Profile picture of the author Blake Turner
    Very good info you are sharing Derek. Thanks for taking the time to do it. I have not ventured into CPA yet... But it is on my radar screen!
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    • Profile picture of the author dsm091
      Derek,
      You stated that you always build a landing page. What about affiliate network landing pages. There is no way that I could build a landing page like theirs.

      I buy a domain and forward that to the landing page using the affiliate link. I mask it and so it still looks like my domain. Is this ok to do? Or will I be shut down by google?

      Jayson
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      • Profile picture of the author Derek Pankaew
        Originally Posted by dsm091 View Post

        Derek,
        You stated that you always build a landing page. What about affiliate network landing pages. There is no way that I could build a landing page like theirs.

        I buy a domain and forward that to the landing page using the affiliate link. I mask it and so it still looks like my domain. Is this ok to do? Or will I be shut down by google?

        Jayson
        You'll get shut down in about an hour.

        Learn to build landing pages buddy You're gonna need a lot of them ...
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        • Profile picture of the author dh5114
          Originally Posted by Derek Pankaew View Post

          You'll get shut down in about an hour.

          Learn to build landing pages buddy You're gonna need a lot of them ...
          I just bought a course suggesting just that - buy a cheap domain and forward with your aff. id masking it so it looks like it's yours.

          this is such a crap... I need a coach...
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          • Profile picture of the author SoundsGood
            Originally Posted by dh5114 View Post

            I need a coach...
            I'm with ya...
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          • Profile picture of the author Derek Pankaew
            Originally Posted by dh5114 View Post

            I just bought a course suggesting just that - buy a cheap domain and forward with your aff. id masking it so it looks like it's yours.

            this is such a crap... I need a coach...
            The Chris Carpenter/Google Cash method worked like ... 4 years ago. It's probably not a crap course, just a really old course.

            Still works on MSN and Yahoo.
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            • Profile picture of the author dh5114
              Anyway, thanks for info...

              This place is HUGE and one can easily get lost here ... and what's the worst part - switch from doing it to reading it. This is what I'm currently fighting with.

              Just a quick question - why are you so against CB? I mean, 90% of online courses talk about getting started with CB. What's so bad about it that CPA is so much better?

              Thanks, Damir
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          • Profile picture of the author mediaguy
            Originally Posted by dh5114 View Post

            I just bought a course suggesting just that - buy a cheap domain and forward with your aff. id masking it so it looks like it's yours.

            this is such a crap... I need a coach...

            Seems like the course you are using is out dated... I have been there too. I use to run PPC campaigns back in 2000 and things where a lot different back then and the money was very easy to make. But as it stands now google wants content - not shared advertisers using others content... So it's best to create your own landing pages - and keep it simple and content rich and you will get a very good QS!
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        • Profile picture of the author dsm091
          Originally Posted by Derek Pankaew View Post

          You'll get shut down in about an hour.

          Learn to build landing pages buddy You're gonna need a lot of them ...
          Been running 4 campaigns for weeks now and have not been shut down. But I will take your advice and start coding tonight.

          URL redirects are allowed for tracking purposes but domain forwarding is not.

          But if you look at this domain:

          Work From Home

          My display URL is the same as the landing page. Am I still going to get shut down?

          Jayson
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  • Profile picture of the author Bruce NewMedia
    Derek, Like others here, I just want to say 'thanks' for answering all these questions.
    I for one hope you hit a $1000K a day soon !!! :-)

    Nice guys should finish #1
    _____
    Bruce
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  • Profile picture of the author ManAbout
    But wouldn't the doman redirect method work for forum links for example? And for offline marketing? Though you would need to find a network that allows offline marketing. The AM at Neverblue told me that they don't allow it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Derek Pankaew
      Wha? I've never heard that before. Yeah, if the offer allows it you can do domain redirect. Would work for forums, articles, SEO, etc.

      I'm just saying it doesn't work for AdWords. Google doesn't allow it.
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      • Profile picture of the author AbhijeetM
        Hi Derek,

        Great article. The tips are very useful. I have question.

        You talked about 1 keyword per adgroup and I agree 100%. However, here's the problem. I am a complete newbie and starting with a new adwords account. I've got about 500 keywords to test initially, which would mean 500 adgroups. Now the problem is how do I scale up if the campaign goes profitable ? You know that the new adwords account have a 1000 adgroup per campaign restriction. And this campaign could easily have 10,000 keywords later on. So how would I scale up ? I'll have to create keyword groups later, isn't it ?

        One solution to the above problem which I thought of was that since I have divided my keywords into 16 different themes, I could start with 16 different campaigns which had those themes. Later I could easily add more keywords to those campaigns. But then, for a new account, I am not sure if this is an appropriate method to start with. Many of those themes have only 20-25 keywords. Plus managing 16 diff campaigns initially...well, am not sure.

        So what do you suggest ? How should I start ?
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        • Profile picture of the author leonardos
          Hey Derek,


          Thank You So Much for share your valious insider tips! I can't believe you are giving away at no cost these gold nuggets!

          BTW, You inspired me and I decided to take masive action in the PPC to CPA biz model.

          However, I have a huge problem: I can't speak in english yet, and I know CPA managers use to do a phone call to new applicants (You recommended we should phone them before, even).

          So, I think my best question here is:

          Do you know some reliable CPA networks with spanish speaking managers/support?

          I have no problem at all with interviews, but unfortunately I can't keep a fluent conversation in english at this moment.

          I really appreciate your help (and the one of everyone else ;-)


          All the best for you and yours,


          Leonardo
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        • Profile picture of the author jbsmith
          Sorry to reply before Derek, but I have quite allot of experience pulling Adwords traffic into different campaigns and I wouldn't worry about what you mention below...simply because for any campaign you will easily wittle half to 3/4 of the keywords down as NOT profitable, so you might start with 500 and find that right away 100 reach your criteria for being NOT profitable, you pause them and add 100 more, then over another week you find that another 100 can be eliminated, etc...

          On my campaigns it is rare to find more than 100 keywords that are consistently profitable, on some it is even less -- the process is one of quickly testing and refining the list to find the most profitable keywords.

          Jeff

          Originally Posted by AbhijeetM View Post

          Hi Derek,

          Great article. The tips are very useful. I have question.

          You talked about 1 keyword per adgroup and I agree 100%. However, here's the problem. I am a complete newbie and starting with a new adwords account. I've got about 500 keywords to test initially, which would mean 500 adgroups. Now the problem is how do I scale up if the campaign goes profitable ? You know that the new adwords account have a 1000 adgroup per campaign restriction. And this campaign could easily have 10,000 keywords later on. So how would I scale up ? I'll have to create keyword groups later, isn't it ?

          One solution to the above problem which I thought of was that since I have divided my keywords into 16 different themes, I could start with 16 different campaigns which had those themes. Later I could easily add more keywords to those campaigns. But then, for a new account, I am not sure if this is an appropriate method to start with. Many of those themes have only 20-25 keywords. Plus managing 16 diff campaigns initially...well, am not sure.

          So what do you suggest ? How should I start ?
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          • Profile picture of the author AbhijeetM
            Originally Posted by jbsmith View Post

            Sorry to reply before Derek, but I have quite allot of experience pulling Adwords traffic into different campaigns and I wouldn't worry about what you mention below...simply because for any campaign you will easily wittle half to 3/4 of the keywords down as NOT profitable, so you might start with 500 and find that right away 100 reach your criteria for being NOT profitable, you pause them and add 100 more, then over another week you find that another 100 can be eliminated, etc...

            On my campaigns it is rare to find more than 100 keywords that are consistently profitable, on some it is even less -- the process is one of quickly testing and refining the list to find the most profitable keywords.

            Jeff
            Thanks for the reply, Jeff. Appreciate it. So let me see if I understood your suggestion correctly. You are saying that there is no need to start 16 different campaigns and I should just go with the one single campaign because I will be adding and eliminating keywords constantly. Right ?
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          • Profile picture of the author Derek Pankaew
            Hi Derek,

            Great article. The tips are very useful. I have question.

            You talked about 1 keyword per adgroup and I agree 100%. However, here's the problem. I am a complete newbie and starting with a new adwords account. I've got about 500 keywords to test initially, which would mean 500 adgroups. Now the problem is how do I scale up if the campaign goes profitable ? You know that the new adwords account have a 1000 adgroup per campaign restriction. And this campaign could easily have 10,000 keywords later on. So how would I scale up ? I'll have to create keyword groups later, isn't it ?

            One solution to the above problem which I thought of was that since I have divided my keywords into 16 different themes, I could start with 16 different campaigns which had those themes. Later I could easily add more keywords to those campaigns. But then, for a new account, I am not sure if this is an appropriate method to start with. Many of those themes have only 20-25 keywords. Plus managing 16 diff campaigns initially...well, am not sure.

            So what do you suggest ? How should I start ?
            Originally Posted by jbsmith View Post

            Sorry to reply before Derek, but I have quite allot of experience pulling Adwords traffic into different campaigns and I wouldn't worry about what you mention below...simply because for any campaign you will easily wittle half to 3/4 of the keywords down as NOT profitable, so you might start with 500 and find that right away 100 reach your criteria for being NOT profitable, you pause them and add 100 more, then over another week you find that another 100 can be eliminated, etc...

            On my campaigns it is rare to find more than 100 keywords that are consistently profitable, on some it is even less -- the process is one of quickly testing and refining the list to find the most profitable keywords.

            Jeff
            Yeah, absolutely.

            I also think you should just launch stuff for a different reason. One of the biggest, BIGGEST mistakes I consistently see newbies making is stalling, trying to get it perfect.

            In other words, don't try and get a perfect list of 5,000 keywords or perfect ads or perfect landing pages and spend weeks before launching ONE campaign.

            I'd rather you just find 500 keywords, launch it in a few days, let it run while you work on another, launch another, check on #1, tweak, check #2, tweak, etc.

            Speed is very important. Just do things quickly, once you find something that's working then expand on it.

            In other words, don't worry about it and just get your campaign lauched ASAP. Think about "what ifs" less and take more action ; )

            Been running 4 campaigns for weeks now and have not been shut down. But I will take your advice and start coding tonight.

            URL redirects are allowed for tracking purposes but domain forwarding is not.

            But if you look at this domain:

            Work From Home

            My display URL is the same as the landing page. Am I still going to get shut down?

            Jayson
            Not clear on what exactly you're doing - So your display URL and your destination URL are different?

            In my experience that doesn't work - Let me know if I'm reading you correctly.

            Do you know some reliable CPA networks with spanish speaking managers/support?
            Off the top of my head, no :/ but your english seems fine. Just apply to like 10 networks and you'll get approved for at least 1-2.
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            • Hi Derek - thanks for sharing your landing page example. Would you be able to give an example of adword text that you would run. I saw your Resveratrol example earlier in the thread that leverages the words "scam" and "exposed" but it'd be great to see another technique for product promotion that uses different angles than that. Thanks !
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              • Profile picture of the author Derek Pankaew
                Originally Posted by Skateboard Express View Post

                Hi Derek - thanks for sharing your landing page example. Would you be able to give an example of adword text that you would run. I saw your Resveratrol example earlier in the thread that leverages the words "scam" and "exposed" but it'd be great to see another technique for product promotion that uses different angles than that. Thanks !
                Y'know ... Probably not ;/ At least nothing that I'm running atm, and RezV's really the only campaign I've killed before.

                This is a great thread about how to write good ads for different buyer mindsets:

                http://www.**********.com/affiliate-...campaigns.html

                (You may have to signup for an account. It's free - An affiliate marketing forum.)

                Another source for ad examples is to just type in your main keyword and look at other people's ads. What may work in one niche may not work in others, so what people are running is usually a good indication of what works.

                Great advice for making money , i have one question , do you build the landing page or direct to the afiliated website?
                Already answered in more detail. Short answer is build landing pages.

                EDIT: Wow that's funny, that link in particular got automatically blocked out by Warrior Forum. Well, if Allen doesn't want that forum linked from here I'll respect that and just leave the link blanked as is.
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                • Profile picture of the author SoundsGood
                  Originally Posted by Derek Pankaew View Post

                  EDIT: Wow that's funny, that link in particular got automatically blocked out by Warrior Forum.
                  Really? That's just plain wicked.
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                  • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.
                    Originally Posted by SoundsGood View Post

                    Really? That's just plain wicked.
                    lol..nice one
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                  • Profile picture of the author Derek Pankaew
                    Originally Posted by SoundsGood View Post

                    Really? That's just plain wicked.
                    LOL xD

                    Originally Posted by dh5114 View Post

                    Anyway, thanks for info...

                    This place is HUGE and one can easily get lost here ... and what's the worst part - switch from doing it to reading it. This is what I'm currently fighting with.

                    Just a quick question - why are you so against CB? I mean, 90% of online courses talk about getting started with CB. What's so bad about it that CPA is so much better?

                    Thanks, Damir
                    #1 - Low EPCs. A 1% conversion on a $20 payout is considered "good" in ClickBank, and that's a 0.20 EPC. Conversely, I get anywhere from $1.00 to $3.00 EPCs on CPA offers.

                    #2 - Small money. Most people doing ClickBank are considered successful if they make $100 a day. In CPA, making $1,000 a day is pretty common.

                    Originally Posted by bandonflyer View Post

                    Derek,

                    Thanks for the great post...

                    A couple of questions.

                    1) What is your method for testing an offer? Do you go large and wide (huge keyword list) from the beginning? Or do you start with a small set and see if it is worth it first?

                    2) How many clicks do you allow for before you make a decision on whether or not the conversion numbers are statistically valid or not?

                    3) Do you build a website for every offer you promote? Or do you start with direct linking and then move to a custom website?

                    4) What would you say is an "adequate" PPC budget per day to get started in PPC affiliate marketing?

                    Thanks...
                    Hey Bandon,

                    I don't mind answering questions, but I've already answered all those questions except #1. I'm not going to re-type what I said, but the answers are somewhere in the thread already.

                    #1 - It really depends. I do like to feel out the pulse of a market for a bit before devoting a lot of time. It's kind of a case by case basis. Sometimes I launch with 1,000+ keywords, sometimes I launch with 20.
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            • Profile picture of the author dsm091
              Originally Posted by Derek Pankaew View Post

              Yeah, absolutely.


              Not clear on what exactly you're doing - So your display URL and your destination URL are different?

              In my experience that doesn't work - Let me know if I'm reading you correctly.
              Well I just checked my ad status again and the landing page is relevant. I am continually getting a good score on my ads 8 out of 10. I buy a domain and forward the url inside of godaddy to my affiliate link. The url's display the same but it is actually being forwarded to my affiliate landing page. THis is not clickbank. It is a private affiliate I got into. I am thinking google sees the real landing page and sees the content and likes it so it doesnt mind. Nothing shady going on. But I will take your advice and build the landing pages. It seems to sell better with your own landing page anyway. You are the one kicking a$$ at 5k a month. I will take your advice.

              Jayson
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Francis
    Interesting how much per click do you pay? 5 cents?
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  • Profile picture of the author thebrokemarketer
    Thank You for the great tips!

    I'm also a big fan of SEO with article marketing and press release marketing. Organic traffic is key
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  • Profile picture of the author sixsense
    Great advice for making money , i have one question , do you build the landing page or direct to the afiliated website?
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  • Profile picture of the author bandonflyer
    Derek,

    Thanks for the great post...

    A couple of questions.

    1) What is your method for testing an offer? Do you go large and wide (huge keyword list) from the beginning? Or do you start with a small set and see if it is worth it first?

    2) How many clicks do you allow for before you make a decision on whether or not the conversion numbers are statistically valid or not?

    3) Do you build a website for every offer you promote? Or do you start with direct linking and then move to a custom website?

    4) What would you say is an "adequate" PPC budget per day to get started in PPC affiliate marketing?

    Thanks...
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  • Profile picture of the author ManAbout
    Derek, I glanced through the thread, but don't think I saw this mentioned. How much are you spending on Adwords to get a profit of $5000 a month?

    I have heard people here make comments like, "the guys who make $1000 a day spend $10,000 a day on advertising".

    Just wondering...
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    • Profile picture of the author Derek Pankaew
      Originally Posted by ManAbout View Post

      Derek, I glanced through the thread, but don't think I saw this mentioned. How much are you spending on Adwords to get a profit of $5000 a month?

      I have heard people here make comments like, "the guys who make $1000 a day spend $10,000 a day on advertising".

      Just wondering...
      It's about double. So I spend $5,000 and make back $10,000 for a net of $5,000.

      The ROI is actually slightly higher than 100%. Probably about 110% ish.

      Most affiliate marketers I know generally make 100% - 300% return for traffic from AdWords as well.
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      • Profile picture of the author ManAbout
        Originally Posted by Derek Pankaew View Post

        It's about double. So I spend $5,000 and make back $10,000 for a net of $5,000.

        The ROI is actually slightly higher than 100%. Probably about 110% ish.

        Most affiliate marketers I know generally make 100% - 300% return for traffic from AdWords as well.
        OK, that seems to make more sense.

        What do you think is holding you back from making more per month? Is it lack of capital? So, if you had $10,000, would you be making $20,000 with it? Or is it because you are still learning?
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        • Profile picture of the author Derek Pankaew
          Part of it is ethics, I'd say. Most 6 figure affiliates I know are promoting rebills, which isn't something I want to do.

          That said, just time. Just keep building campaigns and keep testing and I'll get there pretty quickly I'm sure.

          Capital's not an issue - I got lucky in that department and got a mentor to fund me. He gets a good return on his money & knows that I know what I'm doing. I get the funding I need. Everybody wins.
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          • Profile picture of the author emjayce
            Hi Derek

            This is an awesome thread! I just finished reading through it from start to finish.

            I have a couple questions for you on keyword research...

            1.) How many keywords do you start with when testing a campaign - a handful, 100's, or 1000's? I have found it to be difficult to effectively test a campaign with 100's or 1000's of keywords like some of the gurus recommend because not enough money gets spent on any of them to uncover which one's convert - any insight on this?

            2.) What kind of keywords would you say convert best? ex. product keywords, solution to problem keywords, etc...

            Your insight would be much appreciated.

            Cheers,



            Matt
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            • Profile picture of the author Derek Pankaew
              Originally Posted by emjayce View Post

              Hi Derek

              This is an awesome thread! I just finished reading through it from start to finish.

              I have a couple questions for you on keyword research...

              1.) How many keywords do you start with when testing a campaign - a handful, 100's, or 1000's? I have found it to be difficult to effectively test a campaign with 100's or 1000's of keywords like some of the gurus recommend because not enough money gets spent on any of them to uncover which one's convert - any insight on this?

              2.) What kind of keywords would you say convert best? ex. product keywords, solution to problem keywords, etc...

              Your insight would be much appreciated.

              Cheers,



              Matt
              Hey Matt,

              1) It really depends. I've launched campaigns with thousands of keywords, I've launched campaigns with just one keyword.

              Say I'm doing ink cartridges. I'd probably get a list of all the printer product names and bid on all those product names. That would probably get me 1,000 keywords.

              Then I'll add in all the brands. Compaq printers, HP printers, etc plus all their longtails.

              Then I'd get generic keywords like ink cartridges, toner replacement, etc. Plus their longtails.

              Then I'd grab names of all my competitors that also sell ink. InkWorld.com, CartridgeReplacement.com, etc and bid on those.

              So, all in all that could be a 3,000 keyword campaign.

              Or, I'll sometimes just launch a campaign with one keyword. One I tried that didn't convert was waterboarding.

              Ad copy was something like

              Is Waterboarding Wrong?
              Share Your Opinion & Get a Free
              Gift Card. Is Waterboarding Wrong?
              MyDomain.com

              My campaign had one keyword: [Waterboarding] (exact match)

              So it really depends. In general I tend to launch campaigns with a medium amount of keywords, 20 to 100 or so. I expand it once it's making money.

              2) Totally depends. Watch the ads in your niche for a couple weeks and see if the same people are consistently bidding on the same keywords. If the answer is yes, then it's making someone money.

              All keywords convert to a certain extend. It's just a question of whether or not it's at a profitable ROI. In general, "buying" keywords are better than "generic" or "research" keywords.

              So "Best **** Review" is a much better keyword than "**** Pics."

              Good luck =)
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  • Profile picture of the author ManAbout
    Derek, How are you getting around not having your Adwords account suspended for running affiliate offers?

    I have been hearing a lot of stories about affiliate marketers getting their Google accounts suspended left, right and centre.
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    • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.
      Originally Posted by ManAbout View Post

      Derek, How are you getting around not having your Adwords account suspended for running affiliate offers?

      I have been hearing a lot of stories about affiliate marketers getting their Google accounts suspended left, right and centre.
      uhm...Google would lose A LOT of money. Where did you hear this?
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    • Profile picture of the author Derek Pankaew
      Originally Posted by ManAbout View Post

      Derek, How are you getting around not having your Adwords account suspended for running affiliate offers?

      I have been hearing a lot of stories about affiliate marketers getting their Google accounts suspended left, right and centre.
      lol what?

      I've *never* heard of an affiliate getting banned from AdWords, *except* when they were advertising gambling without a gambling AdWords account.

      If you're talking about recent stuff, there has been a lot of buzz around fake blogs and ****, Google Money Tree and ResV. Accounts don't get suspended, people just get QS slapped.

      Originally Posted by johnx60115 View Post

      Hi, correct me if I'm wrong but if you have 5,000 keywords in one campaign, I'm assuming that those are a combination of broad, phrase, and exact which gives you roughly 1,667 different keywords. Are you implying that you write 1,667 ads?

      Also, is there a limit to the amount of adgroups you can have in one campaign? If I have one keyword 3 different ways (broad, phrase, exact) per adgroup, will Google allow over say 2000 adgroups? I'm just wondering if you've encountered any problems doing this from Google as they have to manually (or however they do it) approve your ads.
      1) Yes. The key is writing your ads in a way that makes it easy to just stick your keyword in there. Often times I'll really only write 10 or so different ads and that will be enough to work for several thousand keywords.

      2) I've never hit the limit. I've heard there is one, but I've never actually gotten an error for too many adgroups.

      Originally Posted by xanol View Post

      Derek, If a newbie were to get started, are there offers other than zip submits/email submits that you would recommend? The thing that bugs me about those is the scrubbing, constant rotating, and volume needed to make real money.
      I actually wouldn't recommend newbies start off with submits for those reasons; and because the margins are so low. You need to get $0.05 cent clicks to make money on submits and most newbies don't have the skillset to do that.

      That said, no I can't recommend an offer ;/ Look through your network offer list, pick something and try it. Again, if there were an offer I could recommend I'd be doing it myself and wouldn't post it, and generally I probably won't post offer recommendations. I can share my process for finding offers though, which is basically looking over the offer lists and top offer lists and making a guess at what I think might work.
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      • Profile picture of the author thecableguy
        Hi Derek

        Couple of questions:

        When you have a large keyword list of hundreds or thousands of keywords for a certain cpa offer do you send them all to the same landing page or create keyword specific landing pages for the better performing keywords?

        And if you do create multiple landing pages would you create them on the same domain, sub-domain or new domain?

        Will making the landing page the "homepage" of the domain matter as far as quality score, or is a sub-page or sub-directory okay?

        Thanks

        Alan
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      • Profile picture of the author ManAbout
        Originally Posted by Derek Pankaew View Post

        lol what?

        I've *never* heard of an affiliate getting banned from AdWords, *except* when they were advertising gambling without a gambling AdWords account.

        If you're talking about recent stuff, there has been a lot of buzz around fake blogs and ****, Google Money Tree and ResV. Accounts don't get suspended, people just get QS slapped.
        .
        I think it's happening in situations where affiliates draw attention to their account. i.e contact Google when their ads are not running.

        Google responds with an "incompatible business practices" message.
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  • Profile picture of the author PeterParker
    Great info inthis tread will be trying to learn PPC
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  • Profile picture of the author johnx60115
    Hi, correct me if I'm wrong but if you have 5,000 keywords in one campaign, I'm assuming that those are a combination of broad, phrase, and exact which gives you roughly 1,667 different keywords. Are you implying that you write 1,667 ads?

    Also, is there a limit to the amount of adgroups you can have in one campaign? If I have one keyword 3 different ways (broad, phrase, exact) per adgroup, will Google allow over say 2000 adgroups? I'm just wondering if you've encountered any problems doing this from Google as they have to manually (or however they do it) approve your ads.
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    • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.
      Originally Posted by johnx60115 View Post

      Hi, correct me if I'm wrong but if you have 5,000 keywords in one campaign, I'm assuming that those are a combination of broad, phrase, and exact which gives you roughly 1,667 different keywords. Are you implying that you write 1,667 ads?

      Also, is there a limit to the amount of adgroups you can have in one campaign? If I have one keyword 3 different ways (broad, phrase, exact) per adgroup, will Google allow over say 2000 adgroups? I'm just wondering if you've encountered any problems doing this from Google as they have to manually (or however they do it) approve your ads.
      keyword permutations are insane, you can get some simple keywords
      alternative|natural|herbal remedy|cure|treatment|remedies|cures|treatments for candida|yeast infection and permutate those (make any possible combination) and have thousands of keywords right there.

      Yes..there is actually a limit because i once got a warning-msg after uploading thousands of keywords for amazon.

      But if you get such a warning your account is literally a mess with so many keywords/adgroups that its literally impossible to manage/handle it anymore.

      I found that overall too many KWs and adgroups is bad...because if you have a high percentage of bad performing keywords in your account it will push down the quality of your WHOLE account.

      KEEP IT MANAGEABLE!!! <-- very important.
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  • Profile picture of the author xanol
    Derek, If a newbie were to get started, are there offers other than zip submits/email submits that you would recommend? The thing that bugs me about those is the scrubbing, constant rotating, and volume needed to make real money.
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  • Profile picture of the author BrockSoft
    Thanks.

    Here are my 2 cents:
    1. Don't do direct linking.
    2. Test 2 adword ads at all times.
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  • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.
    ah..nice. I was just accepted into MaxBounty also.
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    • Profile picture of the author SoundsGood
      Originally Posted by GeorgR. View Post

      ah..nice. I was just accepted into MaxBounty also.
      How is MaxBounty compared to Neverblue and MarketLeverage?
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      • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.
        Originally Posted by SoundsGood View Post

        How is MaxBounty compared to Neverblue and MarketLeverage?
        they have MANY zip/email submits and many coupons. Payouts are about the same as on Neverblue. Both are good programs, IMHO and the AMs seem to be nice!

        G.
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  • Profile picture of the author jkgulick
    Thanks Derek! Do you ever use bully tactics?
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    • Profile picture of the author slay2k
      This thread broke my posting cherry, you are awesome !!

      Quick question about the Excel to Editor process, if you don't mind ?

      In doing the import / paste into the Editor, what do you use for the Max CPC settings for each Ad Group ? Do you set some arbitrary cap or do you already have individualized numbers before the import even happens ?

      And assuming individualized numbers, do you just use Google's Traffic Estimator tool to get the CPC for 1 - 3, then paste those into the software ? Or do you use other tools that automate things somehow ?
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    • Profile picture of the author Derek Pankaew
      Originally Posted by jkgulick View Post

      Thanks Derek! Do you ever use bully tactics?
      Meaning PPC Bully/Content Bully or meaning deliberately "attacking" competition by, say, bidding 1 cent below their bid and making them pay more while your bid stays constant?

      1) No.

      2) No.

      Originally Posted by khalifamueen View Post

      hiii
      if my account gets bad quality score for my keyword and overall acount gets bad , what to do then ? can i open another acount ? or i have to delete this acount first ? and if opened new account and cancel the old one , do i get new setting and new history ?
      any help from you would be appreciated
      thanks alot
      Open a new account. AdWords ToS allows you to have as many accounts as you want so long as it's linked to an MCC account.

      That said, I know a lot of people who just open accounts and don't link it. I do it just to be safe.

      Originally Posted by capone2009 View Post

      I don't get it. Everyone says that PPC to CPA is so profitable. But I thought you need this "pixle" beeing placed on your site, so that you get your commission.
      But when I promote via PPC I can't put html code in my ad, so only the destination url.
      Could someone explain that for me?
      Nah - Just use SubIDs and Prosper 202. No need for tracking pixels. Just Google Prosper202 and watch the documentation videos.

      Pixels are pretty inaccurate and also less flexible. I don't use pixels at all.

      - Derek
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  • Profile picture of the author capone2009
    I don't get it. Everyone says that PPC to CPA is so profitable. But I thought you need this "pixle" beeing placed on your site, so that you get your commission.
    But when I promote via PPC I can't put html code in my ad, so only the destination url.
    Could someone explain that for me?
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  • Profile picture of the author roley
    Originally Posted by Derek Pankaew View Post


    Phase One, the Pre-Run scan. Before you get any traffic, the AdWords bot scans your site and decides how relevant your landing page is. It gives you a score that is generally between 6 and 8.
    My question on this is. Lets say you have a LINK on your webpage/homepage to a product BUT you dont have a PAGE on your site that is specifically for that LINK meaning there is too little to be said about that product so you have just put a link on the homepage or menu to that product which on a merchants website?

    Will adwords say ok because you dont have an article that goes into some great essay on that product we are going to say your homepage is not relevant?

    Like I cant imagine every website going through adwords has a PAGE for every product, that would insane
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    • Profile picture of the author Derek Pankaew
      Originally Posted by roley View Post

      My question on this is. Lets say you have a LINK on your webpage/homepage to a product BUT you dont have a PAGE on your site that is specifically for that LINK meaning there is too little to be said about that product so you have just put a link on the homepage or menu to that product which on a merchants website?

      Will adwords say ok because you dont have an article that goes into some great essay on that product we are going to say your homepage is not relevant?

      Like I cant imagine every website going through adwords has a PAGE for every product, that would insane
      Nah, it's fine to link to the homepage. You probably won't get conversions though if it's not targeted ...

      Originally Posted by roley View Post

      Hey do you also suggest having One Campaign per Adgroup

      meaning If you are going to promote 1 website and that website has 3 categories on it

      Nike
      Puma
      Addidas

      Would you create 3 campaigns with the titles above, and 3 adgroups with the titles above if you was dealing with only 3 keywords with the titles above?
      Campaigns are mostly how you want to organize things. 1 AdGroup is important because that allows you to write one ad per keyword.

      I'd probably just stick them in 1 campaign if the volume is low.

      Originally Posted by roley View Post

      Can you clarify this point?

      Do you mean Google wont allow you to link to one of your pages on your website which has affiliate links on? i.e Customer clicks ad and arrives on your website with affiliate link which needs to be clicked

      Or are you saying Google wont let you link directly to a merchants website using an affiliate link. I.e Customer clicks ad and arrives at merchant
      Can't direct link to the merchant page.
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  • Profile picture of the author roley
    Originally Posted by Derek Pankaew View Post

    Tip #3 - One Keyword Per AdGroup
    Hey do you also suggest having One Campaign per Adgroup

    meaning If you are going to promote 1 website and that website has 3 categories on it

    Nike
    Puma
    Addidas

    Would you create 3 campaigns with the titles above, and 3 adgroups with the titles above if you was dealing with only 3 keywords with the titles above?
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  • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.
    Phase One, the Pre-Run scan. Before you get any traffic, the AdWords bot scans your site and decides how relevant your landing page is. It gives you a score that is generally between 6 and 8.

    Phase Two, this is your on the run score. Your QS is calculated in real time on a per click basis.

    Phase One quality score is only important for getting your ad to run. Often times if your QS is too low, you ad won't even show. The key here is keyword relevance. Have your KW in your title tag, H1 tags and body text. It's all about your landing page.

    Once you get a 7 or 8 in phase 1, then phase 2 is all about CTR. Your landing page becomes just 20%-30% of the equation. Most people put way too much emphasis on it at this point.
    Derek,

    you just nailed it - this is one of the most important Adwords tips ever.

    I have seen some of my sites getting 7 to begin with and CRASHING down to 3 Quality score after impressions - due to

    a) Offer or Ad not attractive which means: LOW CTR ----> QS drop down.


    This essentially means your great campaign for whatever keyword you had with LOW bids and good QS is over. This means going from $0.15 bids for a "good" keyword to $0.80++ bids - which basically means the end for this campaign/adgroup depending on your payouts/conversion.

    I cannot emphasize enough that its EXTREMELY important to maintain/get good CTR, at least by OPTIMIZING your ad wording.

    HOWEVER, here is the trap:

    The problem mentioned here (quality score dropping to the bottom) is especially evident bidding on HIGH TRAFFIC, less specific keywords.

    If the keyword is less specific to begin with you WILL get a lower CTR as opposed to a more targeted keyword....and it wont take longer than a few hours/maybe a day and your formerly nice ad/good QS is history.

    I myself am working with adwords for a long time already, but i 100% admit that i made this mistake quite often, working a LOT on the landing page....but not keeping attention to the "Phase 2" and the ad CTR.....the ad CTR can "kill" any of your ads/campaigns....and its great you mention this!

    The solution: Yes, STILL make a good landing page, but choose LESS traffic keywords, more specific keywords. MONITOR, monitor, split test and GET THE CTR UP.

    If you see really bad CTR, even after re-wording ads....then its time to move those to content network.

    What you say: The "dynamic" calculated QS which is calculated "on the run" is MORE important than the initial QS.
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  • Profile picture of the author troon
    Where is the link for info on Derek's CPA course?

    Thanks!
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    DOMAIN FOR SALE ===> PPCBank.com

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  • Profile picture of the author mrsray
    Tip #0 - Don't Be Afraid to Pay for Traffic ... that's been me until I read this post ... THANKS for the thread guys!
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    If you do not build your dream, someone else will hire you to help them build theirs.

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  • Profile picture of the author mamzy24
    Banned
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    • Profile picture of the author Derek Pankaew
      Originally Posted by mamzy24 View Post

      Thanks Derek for all the info. i was thinking what if you iframe your landing page will you then be able to campaign on google search?
      "No" - You can iFrame and it'll stay up for a couple days, two weeks max, but you'll get slapped 95% of the time.

      Direct linking is more or less blackhat now in Google Search. You can do it, but you'd have to use some shady methods.
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  • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.
    some CPA networks dont allow iframes, some do. Some need approval of the AM.
    Iframing is bad for Adwords - even if you CAN/DO iframe...you need other content on the site to get good quality score. If you just make an empty site with an iframe and no other content you will have a hard time getting any good QS on that page.
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    • Profile picture of the author Derek Pankaew
      Deleted this post - Originally said I wasn't taking mentoring clients. I've recently launched my training program, so the post no longer applies.
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  • Profile picture of the author Matt Wolfe
    This thread has been amazing! Much more valuable than any ebook I've purchased on the subject. I've had two failed attempts at PPC but this thread has givin me the confidence to jump back in.
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  • Profile picture of the author sree94
    Derek,

    Would you care to tell us how many different products you promote/niches you are in?

    I am currently running adwords for a product, but I can barely afford to promote one keyword for that!
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  • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.
    Not sure whether i mentioned it here in the forum...

    But a REALLY quick way for CPA landing pages is Xsite Pro. Especially since you can re-use the templates and then make one site after the other just copying the sites and change texts/keywords.
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    • Profile picture of the author Learnanew
      Originally Posted by GeorgR. View Post

      Not sure whether i mentioned it here in the forum...

      But a REALLY quick way for CPA landing pages is Xsite Pro. Especially since you can re-use the templates and then make one site after the other just copying the sites and change texts/keywords.
      Darn George, just coming back here to report this and you stole the words right out of my mouth.
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  • Profile picture of the author harrysidhu
    How many ads are you running to make your 5000 dollar profit?
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  • Profile picture of the author mediaguy
    Ok have any one had experience with content management systems with Google Adwords?
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  • Profile picture of the author Phil Essex
    Staggering content for a free thread! I make a living internet marketing but never used PPC - somehow I just figured I didn't have enough knowledge and after reading your thread am now sure I don't LOL - however I had a teacher who said "The more you know - the less sure you are and the better your prescribing gets.."

    Just had to op in with my respect for your freely given expertise.

    Best Regards

    Phil Eugene
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  • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.
    I need to chime in in regards to something very important Derek said earlier in the thread.

    He was asked about the adwords budget, and he says he has a "mentor" paying his adwords budget!!

    I just want to remind you guys, it is 100% easier to get good cash flow going if "...someone would pay your/my adwords budget" <--- sadly, some people dont have this luxury!

    There are some profitable niches were you need substantial daily adwords budget, and YES - you CAN spend $1000/day and *MAKE* $2000 NET with this.

    But the majority of people (incl. me) does not have a "mentor" (sic!) paying their adwords budget - we need to start with whatever we can afford to pay and then derive our budget form the earnings. For such people its usually 100% out of reach to make a killing in very saturated markets (****, Weight Loss, Financial...) UNLESS you are able/willing to spend substantial. The most profitable niches ARE in those markets, sadly. I just want to remind you of this because if someone who is able to spend $300++ day on adwords its a whole different story compared to someone who only can spend $50.
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    • Profile picture of the author malcasid
      Originally Posted by GeorgR. View Post

      I need to chime in in regards to something very important Derek said earlier in the thread.

      He was asked about the adwords budget, and he says he has a "mentor" paying his adwords budget!!

      I just want to remind you guys, it is 100% easier to get good cash flow going if "...someone would pay your/my adwords budget" <--- sadly, some people dont have this luxury!

      There are some profitable niches were you need substantial daily adwords budget, and YES - you CAN spend $1000/day and *MAKE* $2000 NET with this.

      But the majority of people (incl. me) does not have a "mentor" (sic!) paying their adwords budget - we need to start with whatever we can afford to pay and then derive our budget form the earnings. For such people its usually 100% out of reach to make a killing in very saturated markets (****, Weight Loss, Financial...) UNLESS you are able/willing to spend substantial. The most profitable niches ARE in those markets, sadly. I just want to remind you of this because if someone who is able to spend $300++ day on adwords its a whole different story compared to someone who only can spend $50.
      Wow Derek is lucky to have someone paying for his AdWords budget!
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      • Profile picture of the author harrysidhu
        say i go into a really popular niche like weight loss and bid to get top spot will that get me a lot of buyers if the landing page is good what im trying ot say is that will i make a profit whats the best strategy you think is to ppc because i have made money but nothing major because im not spending major.
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    • Profile picture of the author Derek Pankaew
      Originally Posted by GeorgR. View Post

      I need to chime in in regards to something very important Derek said earlier in the thread.

      He was asked about the adwords budget, and he says he has a "mentor" paying his adwords budget!!

      I just want to remind you guys, it is 100% easier to get good cash flow going if "...someone would pay your/my adwords budget" <--- sadly, some people dont have this luxury!

      There are some profitable niches were you need substantial daily adwords budget, and YES - you CAN spend $1000/day and *MAKE* $2000 NET with this.

      But the majority of people (incl. me) does not have a "mentor" (sic!) paying their adwords budget - we need to start with whatever we can afford to pay and then derive our budget form the earnings. For such people its usually 100% out of reach to make a killing in very saturated markets (****, Weight Loss, Financial...) UNLESS you are able/willing to spend substantial. The most profitable niches ARE in those markets, sadly. I just want to remind you of this because if someone who is able to spend $300++ day on adwords its a whole different story compared to someone who only can spend $50.
      Haha - Yeah, I did get totally lucky.

      That said, my first month or so I didn't have funding. I was using my own money. I only got the funding because I could show my stats, show my campaigns and prove that I'm profitable.

      That was the first RezV campaign I did that I paid for myself. Made about $3,000 net. Using that campaign as a case study was how I was able to get the funding secured in the first place.

      (It wasn't my PPC mentor funding my stuff - Different guy.)

      Without funding would have been much tougher, but I'd still be able to re-invest that 3K and keep growing. It would have just been slower.

      say i go into a really popular niche like weight loss and bid to get top spot will that get me a lot of buyers if the landing page is good what im trying ot say is that will i make a profit whats the best strategy you think is to ppc because i have made money but nothing major because im not spending major.
      In my opinion you shouldn't do highly competitive niches until you really know what you're doing. IMO Resveratrol is a suicide niche for newbies right now. The front page changes every 2 weeks. Nobody stays on the front page. Not a good sign.

      Weight loss might have settled down now that ****'s on the way out. That said, it's still a tough market.

      You don't need to spend major to get profitable. My top 2 campaigns were profitable right out of the gate. My losers I scraped before I lost more than $200.

      I did *not* spend 5K to find out I'm not making money. More likely than not that just means you don't know what you're doing yet.

      For now, I'd stick to profitable but not insane stuff.
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  • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.
    harry,

    NOONE can guarantee you to make profit!

    And..much luck getting "top spot" w/ ****, Credit report, things like that.

    TOP SPOT for Credit report keywords is EIGHTEEN EURO/CLICK
    TOP SPOT for **** and related is THREE/FOUR EURO++/CLICK

    As to be more specific, i promoted a very good EPC weight loss product for two days, i had several landing pages where i i am *convinced* the landing pages are great. However, i still spent more than i made. I "only" spend about 0.80/click...but i just expected better conversions so i suspended the ads.

    You will never know your conversion rate before hand, all you can do is test and observe.
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  • Profile picture of the author promo_guy
    Hi Derek

    Great tips mate, I've actually copied/pasted much of your responses from this thread lol

    I'm very close to starting my first campaign, hopefully by Friday. I know you say "stick to provitable but not insane stuff" - can you give your thoughts on what to look for (as a noob) that could provide decent profit without losing your shirt in the process?

    For example, even a tip like "avoid weight loss, loans, ringtones" would be good, but even more helpful might be "go for email/zips" or "teeth whitening" or whatever.

    I'll have no more than about $100/day to spend. I know that's not a lot but I don't think I could make the progress with much less (some may disagree).

    I'm thinking search + site placement and sticking with one niche at first...is that a good idea? The one niche idea? Or would you say to go for 3 at least? or whatever

    cheers and thanks for sharing advice on watching EPC...great stuff
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  • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.
    HERE'S THE PROBLEM:

    if you look at the stats (copeac, NB, MB)...ALL of the supposedly best converting products are exactly in those insane niches. Weight Loss/****/CC/DEBT/Mortgage/Credit/Dating/Ringtones.

    Its anything BUT easy to do those niches on PPC...you are right, "insane" is the best expression if i see a €18 (!)bid for "free credit report".

    Now, according to the given stats and EPC and bids, those niches MUST make money, otherwise there wouldnt be such high bids, right?

    I would like to know whether you're currently doing some of those niches (mind you, i am not an adwords newbie either ...

    Furthermore: I see that Copeac actually very often allows iframing. This could also highly boost conversions. Did you do some testing? What does your typical landing page look like?

    Also...whats your opinion in regards to zip/email submits on first/scond page as opposed to "trial" sales offers....or real sales offers?

    I honestly have/had a ***load of campaigns/adgroups running over the few days, all various kinds w/ really nice landing pages....but its still not-conclusive. I had campaigns which went very well, about 20% conversion...and today the SAME campaign i got 70 clicks according to stats and NO single conversion. Just one example.

    I really also want to get the good offers like credit reports, things like that...but its more than difficult in those niche(s).
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  • Profile picture of the author Richard Chapman
    I am just gettin into PPC and this will help abundle. Thanks guys, keep it going
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    • Profile picture of the author xanol
      GeorgR, Derek,

      That's sort of the problem I'm having too...

      I find very few offers that are in between crappy zip submits and offers with insane CPC's (****, Debt, etc..)

      Do we just need to dig deeper, or think out side the box to lower ad spend?

      For example,

      Let's say you want throw 500 clicks at a landing page for testing, and your budget is $200.

      That averages out to $0.40/click.

      Do you have to go really long tail for this to be possible? More testing budget?
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  • Profile picture of the author Harry Behrens
    Wow, Derek, this has been unbelievably helpful. A while ago I posted asking about what product I could use to get my friends to try PPC and now I think I'll just direct them to this thread

    A couple questions about ad testing, if it's cool with you...

    1) Do you actually do A/B testing of ads, and if so, how do you manage it for thousands of keywords and ad groups (assuming 1 ad group per keyword)? Do you just focus on the most productive or do you work your butt off at all of them?

    2) When (and if) doing A/B testing of two ads, by how much percentage and for how long does B need to beat A before you decide to scrap A, keep B and bring a new challenger into the mix?

    3) What do you do when an A/B isn't showing conclusive results for a good while, as in neither A nor B seem to pull out ahead *or* they both get spikes and seem to pull out ahead of the other at random times without a clear winner?

    I ask because I've found this surprisingly more common that one would think it'd be.. of course I have my own answers to these... but I'd appreciate the POV of someone who does 10x the volume that I do.

    Thanks for any help, I really appreciate what you're doing here, as do a whole lot of people. I am downloading and learning Prosper202 even as I type this
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  • Profile picture of the author Rachael
    Hi Derek and Georg

    What would you advise on using to get LPs for CPA offers ? Currently, this is what slowing my campaign launches.
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  • Profile picture of the author rimam1
    Interesting, I've been doing SEO to get traffic to my site, but my conversions haven't been all that impressive.

    Maybe I'll run a PPC campaign and see how it goes. I'll do no more than $10/day for 5 days and see how much I can sell. I'm glad you said not to be afraid of PPC. It's nice to know that SEO is always an option, but if I can convert traffic on the cheap, I'm more inclined to using PPC.
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  • Profile picture of the author James Schramko
    Derek,

    I think with your methodical approach you really should be cranking into image ads on the content network - this is where you can really get some volume and less competition.

    I'll add to that, it is worth building a huge list - then you can leverage that 5k a month into much much more with the use of auto responders and email offers....

    Well done
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  • Profile picture of the author lizzers
    Wow, great idea about the Excel editing...i'll have to try that
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  • Profile picture of the author internote007
    Hi Derek,

    Great stuff here. I'm looking for a mentor so please pm me if interested.
    thanks
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  • Profile picture of the author internote007
    Derek, I forgot to add that I'm looking for a one to one mentor only.
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  • Profile picture of the author blackhawkup
    Banned
    Ok Derek Can You Please Explain::----)))))>>>>>>-

    How do you seperate your keywords using the match types..
    i know you use one keyword per ad but do you group that one keyword using all three match types under 1 ad..for instance

    ad1
    keyword
    "keyword"
    [keyword]

    or do you make them all seperate for instance

    ad1
    keyword

    ad2
    "keyword"

    ad3
    [keyword]

    can you please explain
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    • Profile picture of the author James Schramko
      Originally Posted by rpjackson View Post

      Ok Derek Can You Please Explain::----)))))>>>>>>-

      How do you seperate your keywords using the match types..
      i know you use one keyword per ad but do you group that one keyword using all three match types under 1 ad..for instance

      ad1
      keyword
      "keyword"
      [keyword]

      or do you make them all seperate for instance

      ad1
      keyword

      ad2
      "keyword"

      ad3
      [keyword]

      can you please explain
      You might consider:

      ad1
      keyword
      -"keyword"
      -keyword

      ad2
      "keyword"
      -[keyword]

      ad3
      [keyword]
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  • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.
    there is just a very interesting thread going on in the main forum..its about "untargeted" marketing. In short: The big affiliates who sell "weight loss" do actually NOT target weight loss keywords or sites having to do with "weight loss". (Or ****, Colon Cleanse, Credit Score, whatever)

    This should become clear if you see how much those bids are. The key here is a 100% reversed "out of the box thinking" in regards to marketing. Target the right audience, yes, but NOT diving into those extremely oversaturated and expensive markets.

    Rachael, as for LPs:

    There are several methods which i all use and test.

    1) Use my own tool to clone/make sites
    2) Use MS exprssion web and make simple landers
    3) Use Xsite Pro to make landing pages
    4) Use wordpress and use pages on wordpress as landers
    (usually i use the "review style" pages when i do this on wordpress)

    A good idea is..look at what other people already do and check their landing pages. If you see an offer/landing page of one of your competitors, and you see their site is established and older...they must be doing something right otherwise they would not advertise those keywords and have the site up for so long.

    You can assume such established affiliates ALREADY did a lot of split-testing and you could assume what works for them also might work for you.
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  • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.
    at this point...i'd say dont bother with broad matches. You can try those later, but phrase/exact...then test a little...then try broad if you feel brave.
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  • Profile picture of the author gdschlegel
    @Derek

    Awesome info... thanks for sharing your experiences!

    I'm also in the process of launching campaigns in the google content network... I hear that CPA offers work well.
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  • Profile picture of the author troon
    Using Excel spreadsheets is a waste of time IMHO. Inexpensive tools like AdGrenade and PPC Clicker will help you put up your campaigns in no time. These are great tools to implement many of the suggestions here in this thread (e.g., one ad group per key word, etc.).
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  • Profile picture of the author heathcliff
    The video on ppc keyword toolz?

    Anyone watch this video? At the 10 minute mark when filling out ad, if you are promoting clickbank product would you put your cb id/hoplink in the destination url?? Instead of just the website domain?

    Correct me if im wrong. Sorry im a newb.

    Thanks
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  • Profile picture of the author Neil S
    Hi Derek, just signed up for your course. Experienced SEO person looking to get going with PPC. Looking forward to it!
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    • Profile picture of the author globalbiz001
      I wanted to get yoru initial thoughts on Derek's Adwords course. How is it so far?
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  • Profile picture of the author bimawarrior
    Nicely written info Derek!

    I do One adgroup for one keyword too for several of my campaigns, then expand the most profitable and active adgroups from there.

    It surely works and give great CTR. 10% is not impossible

    Btw, good luck with your mentoring!
    I bet anyone who want to lean PPC will benefit from your experience!
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