Please give me feedback on my fitness sales page

by Matt79
31 replies
UPDATE: I split up my sales pages in to a male and female version.
Here is the female version, what do you think of my intro?
http://www.fitnesshc.com/fitness_program_female.php

Here is the male version:

http://www.fitnesshc.com/fitness_program_male.php

This is my first sales page. I started it a long time ago, its been a while now and I'm ready to focus on it. But I've been staring at this thing for too long and now my brain is mush. I would like your fresh input on how to make it better.

Weight Loss | Lose Weight With The 12 Week Body Transformation System
#feedback #fitness #give #page #sales
  • Profile picture of the author Monja
    Personally, I love the examples. What I usually hate about sales pages (not just yours) is that they are super long. Who reads that? Who wants to read the same over and over again (haven't ready yours so not meant bad in any way).
    The thing is - I go there, see if you can solve my problem (looking at videos and/or pictures), I try to find if you are "real" (e.g. looking at before and after pics) and then I check out the price - that's it usually.
    I know that was more general now but I wonder if not many others feel the same about lengthy sales pages (pitches)
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    • Profile picture of the author donza
      Originally Posted by Monja View Post

      Personally, I love the examples. What I usually hate about sales pages (not just yours) is that they are super long. Who reads that? Who wants to read the same over and over again (haven't ready yours so not meant bad in any way).
      The thing is - I go there, see if you can solve my problem (looking at videos and/or pictures), I try to find if you are "real" (e.g. looking at before and after pics) and then I check out the price - that's it usually.
      I know that was more general now but I wonder if not many others feel the same about lengthy sales pages (pitches)
      I agree. Super long sales pages are like a stop sign for me. DO NOT BUY THIS PRODUCT IT IS CRAP. I think it's because I distrust anyone who tries to force me to spend a prolonged time learning about a product before I can buy it. Its like they have no faith in their product. Also the writing is usually such formulaic crap I actually find it painful to read.

      To the OP this is not a condemnation of your product I know you have just followed the proven formula for selling these types of products. I

      Cheers Don
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      • Profile picture of the author Enfusia
        Originally Posted by donza View Post

        I agree. Super long sales pages are like a stop sign for me. DO NOT BUY THIS PRODUCT IT IS CRAP. I think it's because I distrust anyone who tries to force me to spend a prolonged time learning about a product before I can buy it. Its like they have no faith in their product. Also the writing is usually such formulaic crap I actually find it painful to read.

        To the OP this is not a condemnation of your product I know you have just followed the proven formula for selling these types of products. I

        Cheers Don
        In the words of Claude Hopkins: "Every word must tell and every word must sell".

        The sales page must be the precise minimum amount of words to extract the maximum amount of desired action from your prospect, whether that be buying, sign ups, clicks or likes.

        Making a long sales page just for the sake of having a long sales page is erroneous.

        Patrick
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        • Profile picture of the author rimam1
          Hey Matt,

          GREAT job on at least doing something. Lots of people never even get to that point.

          I'm in the same market, and I'll tell you this... the best thing you can do for yourself is to hire a copywriter. The problem with advice on a forum is that you'll get a bunch of people telling you different things. You'll start feeling bad about yourself and won't really know which way to go.

          Here's what I would do if I were you:

          1). Start selling your product. That's it. If you're able to sell some products, then you know that your copy is at least capable of converting people. It might be wise to test your sales from "warm" prospects (friends, people on your email list, etc.) versus "cold" prospects (paid ads, SEO, etc.)

          At the end of the day, your customer's money is the only thing that matters.

          2). Hire a copywriter. If you can't sell anything, you need a copywriter. If you do sell some products, but aren't profitable, you need a copywriter. Check this sales letter out and tell me if you don't want to buy one of these things (I know I do):

          Inversion Table Therapy - Best Selling Inversion Table

          A good copywriter will help you identify your target market, your USP, your hook, and then help you speak your customer's language to directly address their problems.

          I hired a copywriter and the headline alone was worth what I paid him. Not only that, he helped me uncover a pretty cool USP. Plus, he's a WarriorForum member and all around great guy (PM me if you want to know who)

          Again, great job though. Getting critiqued is not the best feeling, but good job on creating something and having the courage to ask for feedback.

          Best,
          Raza
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  • Profile picture of the author shawnlebrun
    Matt, as someone who has sold millions of dollars worth of products and services in this niche... I've found it pretty tough to speak to the wants/needs of both men and women on the same page.

    They're both after different things... they have different mindsets, they have different beliefs... they have different objections, etc....

    Trying to talk to both at the same time is like trying to talk to no one.

    I'd split it up and talk to the men one way and the women another way, ala Mike Geary and his abs program.

    I remember when I was selling my programs over the years, the more specific I was with my customer avatar, the higher my conversions.
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    • Profile picture of the author Enfusia
      Originally Posted by shawnlebrun View Post

      Matt, as someone who has sold millions of dollars worth of products and services in this niche... I've found it pretty tough to speak to the wants/needs of both men and women on the same page.

      They're both after different things... they have different mindsets, they have different beliefs... they have different objections, etc....

      Trying to talk to both at the same time is like trying to talk to no one.

      I'd split it up and talk to the men one way and the women another way, ala Mike Geary and his abs program.

      I remember when I was selling my programs over the years, the more specific I was with my customer avatar, the higher my conversions.
      Very true! Tough nut to crack. It's really speaking 2 different languages.

      Patrick
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      • Profile picture of the author Enfusia
        Hey Matt,

        Here's what I see that's just above the fold, that's all I have time for at the moment.

        1. Your Pre headline. You've limited your customers to 30 and 40 year olds. The 50 year + has money to line your pockets too.

        You start out with negative copy telling them they can't do something. That's just not going to get a lot of people placing orders.

        Your headline: no one wants to learn anything it sounds like work.
        It does not make a big promise to get me interested enough to read your hook.

        Your Hook;
        You're leading with a guarantee. Your guarantee is not a benefit. It also makes me question my satisfaction before I know what your offering.

        In short if this letter was on Click Bank it would likely have a gravity of pretty close to zero.

        Just wanting to be helpful.

        Patrick
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        • Profile picture of the author Matt79
          Originally Posted by Enfusia View Post

          Hey Matt,

          Here's what I see that's just above the fold, that's all I have time for at the moment.

          1. Your Pre headline. You've limited your customers to 30 and 40 year olds. The 50 year + has money to line your pockets too.

          You start out with negative copy telling them they can't do something. That's just not going to get a lot of people placing orders.

          Your headline: no one wants to learn anything it sounds like work.
          It does not make a big promise to get me interested enough to read your hook.

          Your Hook;
          You're leading with a guarantee. Your guarantee is not a benefit. It also makes me question my satisfaction before I know what your offering.

          In short if this letter was on Click Bank it would likely have a gravity of pretty close to zero.

          Just wanting to be helpful.

          Patrick
          Thanks, I'm trying to make it better. It's hard to do when you're always rewriting everything even the words don't make sense to me sometimes!
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          • Profile picture of the author Enfusia
            Originally Posted by Matt79 View Post

            Thanks, I'm trying to make it better. It's hard to do when you're always rewriting everything even the words don't make sense to me sometimes!
            Well, in the immortal words of Henry Ford "Do what you do best and for everything else hire an expert".

            You're obviously the expert at how to get people into shape, so focus on that. For the other entire career of copywriting that could easily take a decade full time to get good at and longer than that to be great, hire an expert.

            Patrick
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  • Profile picture of the author shawnlebrun
    One other thing Matt, and it's a biggy.

    There's nothing, zip, zilch... that's in your letter that I haven't
    seen or read a thousand times before.

    Why YOU and not Mike Geary or Tom Venuto or Rob Poulos or Isabel De Los
    Rios or.... I think you know where this is heading.

    Anytime you're entering the fitness biz... you're going up against some heavy
    hitters who literally spend millions a month on advertising.

    If you're gonna make a dent, you're gonna have to aim for the fringes
    and maybe target a niche within the fitness niche.

    But again, why you and not all the others. What makes you different/better.

    I'm not asking that to be negative or mean... I'm just asking it because it's
    what I spent years trying to uncover in my own fitness businesses.

    What makes you the best perceived option for your clients?

    this post i did a week or so ago may help...

    http://www.warriorforum.com/copywrit...-your-usp.html

    but again, you really need to nail your USP in this niche... because you're going up against some heavy hitters and if you're going to make a splash... you gotta stand out.
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    • Profile picture of the author Richard Phillip
      Originally Posted by shawnlebrun View Post

      One other thing Matt, and it's a biggy.

      There's nothing, zip, zilch... that's in your letter that I haven't
      seen or read a thousand times before.

      Why YOU and not Mike Geary or Tom Venuto or Rob Poulos or Isabel De Los
      Rios or.... I think you know where this is heading.

      Anytime you're entering the fitness biz... you're going up against some heavy
      hitters who literally spend millions a month on advertising.

      If you're gonna make a dent, you're gonna have to aim for the fringes
      and maybe target a niche within the fitness niche.

      But again, why you and not all the others. What makes you different/better.

      I'm not asking that to be negative or mean... I'm just asking it because it's
      what I spent years trying to uncover in my own fitness businesses.

      What makes you the best perceived option for your clients?

      this post i did a week or so ago may help...

      http://www.warriorforum.com/copywrit...-your-usp.html

      but again, you really need to nail your USP in this niche... because you're going up against some heavy hitters and if you're going to make a splash... you gotta stand out.
      This. I totally agree. I would niche down to get to someone's specific needs/wants/desires and go after them.

      "Fit into your wedding dress, guaranteed!"

      For example.

      R.
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  • Profile picture of the author maximus242
    You know whats the problem with this letter? Boring. B-O-R-I-N-G Boring.

    P.S. Headline = Sucks
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  • Profile picture of the author MIB Mastermind
    The headline is weak.

    There's no hook to draw me in to the body copy.

    You really need to nail down a USP and better define your target market. It's a whole lot
    easier to talk to one group of people at a time.

    VSL's are killing it in this niche, at a later date when you have some metrics to work with, I would consider testing this.
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  • Profile picture of the author Matt79
    Message received, headline sucks and I don't have an obvious USP. That's priority to work on. Basically what most of you are saying I should probably have two different pages one specifically for women and one specifically for men. And the main page be general but directed the visitor towards the gender specific version? Is that correct?

    Originally, I was thinking that my USP was the huge video library of over 200 videos of various workouts performed by me, and a set done by regular people. The entire weight loss of my two case studies was filmed, and you can see their progress by their excerises from going from beginner to advanced during the course of the program.

    I also offer a monthly webinar where I plan to host to talk to all the clients and answer various questions.

    The truth about weightloss is that it's simple burn more calories than you consume. There are too many gimick products and diet pills out htere and you don't need that stuff.
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    • Profile picture of the author Raydal
      Originally Posted by Matt79 View Post

      The truth about weightloss is that it's simple burn more calories than you consume. There are too many gimick products and diet pills out htere and you don't need that stuff.
      I truly sympathize with you because I agree with your
      gernarla analysis with the weight loss market. But at
      the same time you have to work with people where
      they are. The gimmicks work and that's why there
      are so many out there. People want to take a pill
      and wake of at their ideal weight. The question is:
      How do you get them to accept the bitter pill of
      reality that they must (here comes that dirty word)
      change?

      The truth about copywriting is that you have to make
      the simple complex and the complex simple. If you
      have a "simple" product then you have to make it
      complex or else why buy a program that is so simple?

      -Ray Edwards
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  • Profile picture of the author Loren Woirhaye
    A short letter with an iron-clad satisfaction guarantee
    is a good thing. I am not saying that long letters
    cannot serve a purpose - but with the internet
    writers and marketers are liberated from the substantial
    printing and mailing costs of direct mail and there
    are a lot of bloated internet sales letters as a result.

    Many of the best copywriters invest the most effort
    in writing the headline and the order form/guarantee.
    This is because people determine whether they are
    really interested from the bold headline, then go
    down to look at the offer. Make a killer (and risk free)
    offer to the right market and you've got a winner.

    The problem with a lot of popular niches is they are
    saturated with me-too product offerings. Your
    offering can stand out by having the edge in
    one or more categories (I recommend trying to
    find a small advantage in several as an authentic
    big advantage is often difficult to identify or
    non-existent).
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Pescetti
    Unless you have the financial backing to create a transcending brand (think Beach Body/P90X/Insanity,) you have to break down your vision - so it appeals to each demographic in your broader market.

    Having one sales letter aimed at men and women - without a USP that sizzles or brand recognition is a recipe for heartache.

    Break up your vision.

    Start out with male and female versions of your letter.

    But don't stop there.

    You're talking about overall health and healing the metabolism as much as fitness and weight loss.

    Create gender-specific letters/vsl's aimed at men and women who are focusing on elevating their health; not necessarily losing or regulating their weight.

    Your stance and insights has an appeal that can create big, money-making impacts in numerous niches - under the umbrella of health, fitness, weight loss and athletic performance.

    Mark
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  • Profile picture of the author Matt79
    Hi Everyone, I broke up my sales page into two different ones, here's a female version:

    The 12 Week Body Transformation System

    I'm trying to be creative with the letter. Let me know if I'm on the right track or off base.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mark Pescetti
      Originally Posted by Matt79 View Post

      Hi Everyone, I broke up my sales page into two different ones, here's a female version:

      The 12 Week Body Transformation System

      I'm trying to be creative with the letter. Let me know if I'm on the right track or off base.
      Let me ask you a question Matt:

      Are you determined to do this all on your own?

      You're not on the right track yet.

      You're not hitting the emotions that will grab a woman's attention.

      Instead...

      You're trying to be clever.

      But there isn't a brand or central theme (USP?) that is even remotely coming through.

      My advice?

      Totally start over.

      Beginning with the concept and brand.

      You can still use "The 12 Week Body Transformation System," but it's more of a tag than a brand.

      What's your brand?!?!

      For example:

      "Mirror, Mirror Fitness

      Transform your reflection in just 12 weeks.

      To every woman who fantasizes about her optimal body!

      Feeling amazing about yourself when you look in the mirror can make or break your entire day.

      It's so important for you to feel confident, attractive, appealing, sexy and wanted - even if you're married and absolutely love your life.

      There's nothing in the world like receiving positive attention for how you look.

      And no...

      It's not just about your appearance.

      It's about being so comfortable in your skin that who you really are shines through for all to see.

      However...

      When your reflection doesn't make you feel good about yourself, everyone can see it in the way you walk, talk... the look on your face.

      It's just shows when you don't feel confident. You can't help it.

      I created my exclusive 12 Week Reflection Transformation System for women just like you - who passionately want to feel confident about the way you look...

      So the real you can always shine through."

      That's what I mean about weaving your brand (as a central theme) throughout your copy.

      That being said...

      The reason why I asked if you're determined to do this whole thing on your own is:

      You also have to make sure your brand visually resonates with your audience.

      Right now...

      You have a plain looking site that just doesn't cut.

      You're in an incredibly competitive market. That's a HUGE understatement. And you know that.

      You can't just come to the table with a bare bones concept.

      You need to flesh it out.

      And from what I can see, you need a graphic/web person to help you out on that front.

      Keep moving forward.

      mark
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      • Profile picture of the author Shazadi
        Originally Posted by Mark Pescetti View Post

        You're not hitting the emotions that will grab a woman's attention.

        Instead...

        You're trying to be clever.
        Bingo. Your headline is amusing, sure, but I didn't want to read anything beyond it. Why? Because there were no benefits promised. I didn't even see anything that aroused my curiosity.

        Also, who the hell are you? Aside from seeing "Matt Straight" hidden in the upper corner of the page, I don't see your name. You literally never introduce yourself in this letter. What the heck? Can't believe nobody else picked that out. Would YOU buy a fitness program from a nobody? (Not saying that you are, but as it stands, that's how it comes across.)

        Your testimonials are actually solid, so you have the "bones" of good copy. But you need to seriously reconsider how you present yourself, how to describe the unique qualities of your program and explain why people should work with you versus thousands of other trainers. It doesn't tap into the emotions of people who are trying to get fit (or fitter) either.

        Here's a tip that I'm sure you know: A lot of those programs DO work, if people can stick with them. So what makes yours more enjoyable? Why would someone want to train with you rather than Joe Schmo? Differentiate yourself. Start by stating your name. :rolleyes:
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  • Profile picture of the author BurtL
    By posting on here you're going to get a lot of "opinions" on how to make it better.

    You will see a common theme that people are suggesting that's what you need to work on, ie your USP. Then you're going to get conflicting opinions, I suggest take those with a grain of salt.

    If you can afford copywriting services I recommend that. But double check their references. Hire someone and just go with it, listen to what they say.
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  • Profile picture of the author shawnlebrun
    Matt,

    want to learn what resonates with the female weight loss market?

    It's not being clever. They're not in the mindset for clever.

    When many of them feel down and depressed about their weight... clever is
    not the right "key that fits the lock"

    I'll give you a hint.

    There's a reason why, at one point in time, Richard Simmons has sold more weight loss
    programs to women than another other person on the face of the Earth.

    Think compassion, empathy, understanding.... and move away from "clever"
    and you'll be a lot "warmer"
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    • Profile picture of the author katherineolga
      I am a girl, I need to lose weight.

      I hit a wall at the headline. I like headlines that tell me what I am going to achieve with it. I know, it's assumed I will lose weight - but the headline should start to paint a picture about a dress I want to fit into, a class reunion coming up, the fact that I want to look good in a bikini...

      Also, the colors in the page are too masculine. I like pink. After I hit a wall at the headline I thought, I like pink better than blue.

      After I made the pink comment, I scrolled a bit and decided that I would like to see a bunch of "after" pictures of people looking fantastic in their dresses and bikinis or in a wedding dress looking svelte.

      I didn't stop to read any of the text.
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  • Profile picture of the author Matt79
    Thanks for your input everyone, it's back to the drawing board again.
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  • Profile picture of the author Matt79
    Couple of questions before I start over. The part where I describe what the program is about and the case studies.

    I intially had 1 sales page for both men and women, and based on suggestions people said to make it more specific.

    So I did this: The 12 Week Body Transformation System

    Is this sufficient? or do I need elaborate more on this?

    And I had it coded so that affiliates and directly send visitors to specific sales pages with some code.

    Is the male version just as bad as the female?

    http://www.fitnesshc.com/fitness_program_male.php
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    • Profile picture of the author Mark Pescetti
      Originally Posted by Matt79 View Post

      Is the male version just as bad as the female?

      The 12 Week Body Transformation System
      It's good information, but there's nothing groundbreaking about it.

      I started doing Plyometrics when I was 14 or 15.

      If you're appealing to anyone with a fitness background, you'll just get a big, "So what?!?!"

      That being said...

      If you're going after fitness newbies, it's great, absolutely true information.

      Is this the right beginning? No.

      Have you already tested your basic brand and got good results? Is there a reason you're hanging on so tightly to the bland-brand you have?
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      • Profile picture of the author Matt79
        Originally Posted by Mark Pescetti View Post

        Have you already tested your basic brand and got good results? Is there a reason you're hanging on so tightly to the bland-brand you have?
        No not yet. The 12 week body transformation is basically what it is 12 weeks to sustainable weight loss. Everything else is done, the backend, filming etc... right now i'm working on the branding/sales pages.
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  • Profile picture of the author shawnlebrun
    Matt,

    the male version is just as bad. the headline is confusing as heck.

    But truthfully... asking here on the Forum what you should do may not be the best place... and I only say that because you may get so many different opinions... you may find yourself even more confused.

    And honestly, that's what makes this place great... the ability to voice your opinion.

    but it can also lead to confusion as to what you should do. If you get 12 different answers... that could lead to confusion.

    My advice to those starting out? Skip the asking and guessing, and go to where letters are currently working and bringing in money.

    I'm a HUGE believer in modeling in life... in all areas.

    so, go to Clickbank, check out the top gravity scorers in the fitness market and see what they're doing. At least this way, you know these letters are currently working and bringing in sales.

    that will help cut out the guesswork as to what you should do. Modeling is a great way to shortcut your way to at least having an idea of what's working.

    again, asking on here is fine and all, but if you start getting too many conflicting ideas... you may be back at square one because of confusion.
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    • Profile picture of the author Matt79
      Originally Posted by shawnlebrun View Post

      so, go to Clickbank, check out the top gravity scorers in the fitness market and see what they're doing. At least this way, you know these letters are currently working and bringing in sales.

      that will help cut out the guesswork as to what you should do. Modeling is a great way to shortcut your way to at least having an idea of what's working.

      again, asking on here is fine and all, but if you start getting too many conflicting ideas... you may be back at square one because of confusion.
      Thanks Shawn,

      You know what? That's what I did months ago. Seeing that all the high gravity weight loss sites all had video sales letters, that's what I created. If you notice all of my videos on the site now, that's all part of 1 big VSL.

      Everyone said the video was good, just a little too long. So I ripped it apart in to smaller videos (as per suggestions on the forum), adding text and I ended up making a traditional sales letter.
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