Writing Compelling Landing Page copy without hiring an expert copywriter

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A stellar powerful persuasive landing page copy that racks up your conversion rates usually is

50% research,

35% the headline,

10% your style of writing,

And 5% grammatical accuracy;


Research…


How do you begin carrying out research when you’re writing the copy for your landing page?

Well, basically like Ken McAfee of Wordtracker said if you’ve found the keywords you’ve found the marketplace.

So you begin by identifying the main niche your offer/product is in or by finding the generic name for the problem it so solves/cures for instance a weight loss product simply does what? Help lose weight.

Next up you gather up a list of reasons why people would want to use that product. Or as in my for instance, why would people want to lose weight?

And this is where most beginner copywriters will miss it!

They’re on a cross-road now: one road leads to the obvious reason and the other; the clandestine reason(s)…

If they take the obvious reason which is they just wanting to become slim - (still on the weight loss example) your copy would generally focus and sell them on becoming slim.

Although with this method you might get a couple or more conversions since nothing is certain in this business only when you test...

But a more trodden and proven path to high conversion rates is the other road – the clandestine reason(s)

Now there’s always a psychological/emotional reason(s) why they’d want to lose weight and it’s usually different for every one…

(In an article written by online marketing expert Sean D’Souza – Precise Client Attraction...he pointed out a lot of reasons why overweight women want to lose weight – I recommend reading that article.)

For example:

A set of women might want to lose weight because

• they want to be able to perform activities slim people can

(can you see that’s a whole different angle? )

…while another might want to avoid

• a life-long of health issues (perhaps they’ve heard a doctor say obese people are prone to early heart attacks or other life threatening diseases)

(Capitalizing on the emotion fear in your copy would be instrumental here – you can literally scare them into taking actions)

…while another might want to feel:

• more self-worth and attractive.
(Yet another “hook”!)

These are all examples of hidden emotional reasons why most overweight women would want to lose weight…their pain points.

Are you already seeing three THEMES your copy might be based on?

Since you’re going to have to select just one…you have to select the one you think would resonate with a lot of people – also you could write the copy based on all 3 for 3 separate landers and split test…

Now you might be wondering how do I come up with a list of emotional reasons as to why a customer might want to use my product?

Not of the top of your head…

Take Action: You need to do some competitive research by spying on the most popular content in the niche, use sites like Reddit, Google Trends, Alltop…writers are always writing about what people in their niche care about.

Go through a lot of articles just to understand what the customer really cares about; or straight up you could Google for instance “the problems of overweight people” (still on the weight-loss example) to see if any insight turns up, it’s work I know!

Also Forums, yes forums can provide valuable insights into a customer’s pain points…you can Google the niche’s name + “forum” for example weight loss “forum”.

Now that you’ve gathered up a list of psychological reasons why your prospect would want to use your product, it’s time to write the copy.

Research Done; Copy Time!

Writing the Headline

People decide whether or not to read an article by just glancing the headline only and usually it doesn’t matter if the rest of the article is terrible or not. It’s like an attention grabbing device;

If you haven’t read these free 2 books about “writing headlines” I’m going to show you here then you shouldn’t dare begin writing one single headline…trust me!

Why Headlines Fail by Sean Souza – an awesome quick read book to get you started writing powerful headlines…

And headline Hacks by Jon Morrow – a collection of top headline templates…

Google and Download those free books to learn how to write your headlines.

Now when your headline begins to attract attention – getting people to read the first few sentences of your copy, It’s (headline) done its job, it depends now on the style of writing you choose to bring everything together.


Tell a Story

Stories are great converters! Nothing beats the good ‘ole classic story of transformation; transformation from an unpleasant situation (person) to a pleasant situation (person), what hurdles the subject of your story had to overcome and how instrumental was the product (your offer) in the victory.

Stories are all over the web, here’s an example –the simple trick video – did you see how the writer successfully implemented story-telling into his copy.

If you don’t know how to start writing stories for your landing page – you can begin by learning from the experts at places like copyblogger.com and psychotactics.com/blog – they’ve got lots of articles on the subject of story-telling.



Only Emphasizing the Customers’ Pain

What if your copy only focused on the pain of your intended prospects? No pitching benefits of any kind, just hammering them with their pain and at closing ask them to solve their problem by sending them to the offer’s sales page!

I’ve used this method a couple of times and seen it bring in a lot of conversions – here’s the article that inspired that style of writing - How to sell without selling by Ben Settle.


The Ryan Deiss Video Sales Letter Formula

The Ryan Deiss 12 point video sales Formula which was formulated originally by David Frey is yet another style to write your landing page copy – it starts off with the headline – then identifying the prospects problems and promising to solve it – unto aggravating the problem…

Here’s an article which fully goes into details the 12 point video sales letter formula…How Ryan Deiss Writes, Produces and Publishes Video Salesletters and How You Can Do It Too -google that!

You Can’t Fail With This!!

You have the WhatRunsWhere – which means you’ll never run out of landing page copy ideas…of course by having available to you other marketers' top performing landing pages.
#compelling #copy #copywriter #expert #hiring #landing #page #writing
  • Profile picture of the author angiecolee
    TL; DR.

    Ya gotta tighten up, dude.
    Signature

    Aspiring copywriters: if you need 1:1 advice from an experienced copy chief, head over to my Phone a Friend page.

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  • Profile picture of the author splitTest
    This is great, gio. Thanks!
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  • Profile picture of the author Self Made
    Great post, will take some of these points and try and practice them , copyrighting is something that Im working on just outsorcing most of it now!
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    • Profile picture of the author marciayudkin
      if you've found the keywords you've found the marketplace
      You lost me there. This is so not true.

      There are some niches where you can find the keywords to get traffic yet the niche is not profitable. A friend of mine, for example, wasted years targeting the "frugal" niche. Lots of enthusiasm and traffic, but he never made money on that niche.

      Marcia Yudkin
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      Check out Marcia Yudkin's No-Hype Marketing Academy for courses on copywriting, publicity, infomarketing, marketing plans, naming, and branding - not to mention the popular "Marketing for Introverts" course.
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      • Originally Posted by marciayudkin View Post

        You lost me there. This is so not true.

        There are some niches where you can find the keywords to get traffic yet the niche is not profitable. A friend of mine, for example, wasted years targeting the "frugal" niche. Lots of enthusiasm and traffic, but he never made money on that niche.

        Marcia Yudkin
        That was a quote from an internet marketing great, and i think it is absolutely correct but you seem to be looking at it from a different angle...basically when you discover the keyword you've found the marketplace for that keyword for example you discovered the frugal keyword - it is a marketplace online or a niche. It being profitable depends entirely on a different thing - if you ask what are the top niches online - by just telling dating - you have discover the dating marketplace.
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        • Profile picture of the author Alex Cohen
          A stellar powerful persuasive landing page copy that racks up your conversion rates usually is

          50% research,
          35% the headline,
          15% your style of writing,
          And 5% grammatical accuracy;
          Besides the obvious fact that these percentages were dreamed up in Fantasyland, they add up to 105%.

          Alex
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          • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Alex Cohen View Post

            Besides the obvious fact that these percentages were dreamed up in Fantasyland, they add up to 105%.

            Alex
            Hilarious. Anyway... I would argue that the headline is vital - get that wrong and you're dead in the water. But that (and the lousy grammar) aside... here's a clue on where this guy's coming from -
            People decide whether or not to read an article by just glancing the headline only and usually it doesn't matter if the rest of the article is terrible or not.
            Sigh. Look - this sub-forum is about copywriting. NOT copyrighting, article writing, content writing, ghost writing or even blog writing.



            I wonder if the new owners will sort this out or will we still be invaded by all these sub-species?
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            • Profile picture of the author Alex Cohen
              Originally Posted by The Copy Nazi View Post

              Sigh. Look - this sub-forum is about copywriting. NOT copyrighting, article writing, content writing, ghost writing or even blog writing.

              I wonder if the new owners will sort this out or will we still be invaded by all these sub-species?
              It would be nice.

              On a positive note, the new CEO is interested in WF community suggestions:

              Originally Posted by mattbarrie View Post

              Hello everyone!

              This is Matt Barrie, Chief Executive of Freelancer.com.

              I am pleased to announce that Warrior Forum has joined the Freelancer family.

              We are excited and looking forward to working with you to better support the community.

              Allen Says founded Warrior Forum in 1997 and I've personally watched the community grow to over 730,000 members, becoming the world's largest Internet marketing forum.

              We will be allocating substantial resources to further grow Warrior Forum! We will be dedicating engineers to build features and customer experience specialists to interact with the community in order to understand intimately what you like. They'll be working closely with the moderators moving forward.

              The most important thing, however, is that we listen to you- the community. We'll be going through the suggestions section and would love to hear more about your ideas and feedback. I am really keen to hear from you!

              Also please feel free to email me at matt@freelancer.com with any suggestions, ideas, and thoughts or just to touch base and introduce yourself.

              Effective immediately we are making a few permanent improvements to pricing:
              * All WSO listings will now be reduced from $40 to $20
              * All current War Room members will have their 20 year membership extended to lifetime, immediately. Moving forward new memberships will be $20 per year.

              Thank you for your support of Warrior Forum in the past and I look forward to working with you to take Warrior Forum to the next phase!

              Regards,
              Matt Barrie
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            • Originally Posted by The Copy Nazi View Post

              Hilarious. Anyway... I would argue that the headline is vital - get that wrong and you're dead in the water. But that (and the lousy grammar) aside... here's a clue on where this guy's coming from -

              Sigh. Look - this sub-forum is about copywriting. NOT copyrighting, article writing, content writing, ghost writing or even blog writing.



              I wonder if the new owners will sort this out or will we still be invaded by all these sub-species?
              That's just erroneous! You're taking what i said and making it say what was not intended...if the body article is terrible you're not going to get any conversions now are you? All i was trying to lay across was an article with a good headline and a terrible body will attract attention than an article with a terrible headline and a good body.
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              • Profile picture of the author Cool Hand Luke
                Originally Posted by giotheinternetboy View Post

                That's just erroneous! You're taking what i said and making it say what was not intended...if the body article is terrible you're not going to get any conversions now are you? All i was trying to lay across was an article with a good headline and a terrible body will attract attention than an article with a terrible headline and a good body.
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                • I stand corrected!

                  but this thread's got over 200 views which means i did something right...i'm only having problems with the copywriting gurus and their egos!
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                  • Profile picture of the author John Krone
                    Originally Posted by giotheinternetboy View Post

                    I stand corrected!

                    but this thread's got over 200 views which means i did something right...i'm only having problems with the copywriting gurus and their egos!
                    Fiver dude! Nail was smashed on head.
                    It's about connecting to the reader, (not your English teacher or math teacher).
                    John
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          • Originally Posted by Alex Cohen View Post

            Besides the obvious fact that these percentages were dreamed up in Fantasyland, they add up to 105%.

            Alex
            I do not appreciate your comment; you should have pointed that out instead of the sarcasm...the first copywriter who haven't written a typo in his entire life throw the first rock at me!

            By the way i'm a programmer and designer, writing copy is me trying to go full stack with my direct response company...i've had success with this method and that's why i thought to share with other warriors.

            Though i stand corrected!!
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            • Profile picture of the author Alex Cohen
              Originally Posted by giotheinternetboy View Post

              I do not appreciate your comment; you should have pointed that out instead of the sarcasm...the first copywriter who haven't written a typo in his entire life throw the first rock at me!
              Vitamin C, Coenzyme Q, and green tea have all been shown to thicken skin.

              By the way i'm a programmer and designer, writing copy is me trying to go full stack with my direct response company...i've had success with this method and that's why i thought to share with other warriors.
              You may have had success writing copy, but those quoted percentages are just a figment of the imagination.

              The offer, for example, is a major part of any sales letter. And second only to the headline in importance. Yet it's not even reflected in your percentage chart.

              Alex
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              • Profile picture of the author John Krone
                Originally Posted by Alex Cohen View Post

                You may have had success writing copy, but those quoted percentages are just a figment of the imagination.
                The offer, for example, is a major part of any sales letter. And second only to the headline in importance. Yet it's not even reflected in your percentage chart.
                Alex
                Alex, your numbers are true, in the "traditional" sense. Gio's point I believe was challenging the premise of tradition. He was focused on the "50% research", being his main point. The remainder of his percentages were fillers.
                The fact that he miscalculated, demonstrates even more so, that those numbers (what ever they may be) came secondary, even as he was typing them out.

                Here's an easier view: Imagine 2 landing pages. One has crappy headline, crappy body, crappy offer. It converts .001 percent. The second, has great landing page with compelling headline, compelling body and compelling offer. It converts .02 percent.
                Both pages would follow your percentage rule, however they convert at drastically different rates.
                Gio's point, is that - with more research, both sites gain impact. So, your numbers were only measuring metric within the page. His was measuring metrics within the population of site visitors.
                The irony, is that his "5% accuracy importance" line, is what threw his total off.

                The offer, not mentioned by Gio, was given high priority by you. But wouldn't this also be true? A reader may perceive the offer as valuable or invaluable, depending on how well our copy hooked their emotions, memory, hopes and challenges. The same offer, preceded by different copy gives different results. The experience, of the copy pre-frames the value of the offer.

                Even though an offer may seem great to the writer - unless it is perceived as great by the reader, then it looses actual impact. Perception is reality. Gios' point was to hook into the readers real purpose for being there, or else the rest (including the offer) really doesn't matter. (as in example-site one).

                So you're correct, in the traditional sense of - that is how most writers and metrics measure a page. Though Gio was right in the sense that tapping into a readers true thoughts and emotions, are the most important steps of all.
                It's maybe why he whittled traditional percentages down - tuned into the bigger, often forgotten picture.
                John
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                • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
                  Banned
                  I've no idea what any of this means. I'm guessing you're a college boy. Mind grabbing, heart touching content it ain't.
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                  • Originally Posted by The Copy Nazi View Post

                    I've no idea what any of this means. I'm guessing you're a college boy. Mind grabbing, heart touching content it aint.
                    What this means is the same exact copy strategy i've used with varying success...

                    "it ain't?"

                    I might not be experienced as you but this works old man!
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                    • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
                      Banned
                      Originally Posted by giotheinternetboy View Post

                      What this means is the same exact copy strategy i've used with varying success...

                      "it ain't?"

                      I might not be experienced as you but this works old man!
                      I wasn't talking to you pup. I was talking to John. And FYI "it ain't" is vernacular American. As in -

                      Ain't Gonna Happen

                      Ain't That The Truth

                      Say It Ain't So

                      There Ain't No Such Thing as a Free Lunch

                      You Ain't Seen Nothing Yet
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                  • Profile picture of the author John Krone
                    Originally Posted by The Copy Nazi View Post

                    I've no idea what any of this means. I'm guessing you're a college boy. Mind grabbing, heart touching content it ain't.
                    Hi CN,
                    Not sure what parts are unclear to you. His original message was also long and that must be clearly understood first. In order to see how the two fit together.

                    Feel free to specify.
                    John
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                • Profile picture of the author Alex Cohen
                  Originally Posted by John Krone View Post

                  The offer, not mentioned by Gio, was given high priority by you. But wouldn't this also be true? A reader may perceive the offer as valuable or invaluable, depending on how well our copy hooked their emotions, memory, hopes and challenges. The same offer, preceded by different copy gives different results. The experience, of the copy pre-frames the value of the offer.
                  Nope. If an offer is good enough (irresistible) the importance of the other copy elements is reduced in comparison.

                  Assigning percentages to copy elements is ridiculous anyway. Not everything in life can be quantified... especially an activity that is both scientific and artistic.

                  Alex
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                  • Profile picture of the author John Krone
                    Originally Posted by Alex Cohen View Post

                    Nope. If an offer is good enough (irresistible) the importance of the other copy elements is reduced in comparison.
                    Assigning percentages to copy elements is ridiculous anyway. Not everything in life can be quantified... especially an activity that is both scientific and artistic.
                    Alex
                    Alex, your first statement "if an offer is good enough" implies that an offer's value is agreed upon by both writer and reader. Value is based on perception. Good enough in who's eyes? The true value is a perceived. The writer might see it as incredible value, but the reader may see it as unbelievable or no value.

                    If I take an Apple ipad and strip off the name Apple, replacing it with an unknown name. It has the exact same quality as an Apple ipad. The exact same cost and functional value. But as you know, it would never sell for as much, because the value is determined by perception. Apple's name is perceived as high value. That's why a buyer would pay more for an Apple ipad. That perception was created PRIOR to the sale. Not in the offer itself. Value = what someone will pay. What they think it's worth. The copy preceding the offer, alters perception of the value of the offer. Perception is reality.

                    If that wasn't true, then all we'd ever have to do - is give our products for free. That doesn't work either. I'm sure you've ran across that before. I've sold videos for $197, that I later couldn't give away for free. It was because of the perception and relationships I had created differently in the two cases. Free was not irresistible but $197 was.
                    Free items are perceived as less valuable. That's been proven often.

                    Tapping into the readers idea of value, is what Gio's "50% research", figure was all about. Better yet, getting them to perceive our offer as valuable, makes it valuable. Perception is reality.
                    John
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                    • Profile picture of the author Alex Cohen
                      Originally Posted by John Krone View Post

                      Alex, your first statement "if an offer is good enough" implies that an offer's value is agreed upon by both writer and reader. Value is based on perception. Good enough in who's eyes? The true value is a perceived. The writer might see it as incredible value, but the reader may see it as unbelievable or no value.
                      You're right... and thank you for supporting my point.

                      At best, applying percentages to copywriting is in the eye of the beholder. And in my opinion, the percentages stated by the OP were dreamed up in Fantasyland.

                      At worst, applying percentages to copywriting is ridiculous.

                      Alex
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  • Profile picture of the author @i
    awesome post, really interested in writing my own landing page at the moment super tricky because there is so much info but i dont want too have it too long. Anyway great post, will really help me out
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  • Profile picture of the author elmo033057
    Originally Posted by giotheinternetboy View Post

    A stellar powerful persuasive landing page copy that racks up your conversion rates usually is

    50% research,

    35% the headline,

    10% your style of writing,

    And 5% grammatical accuracy;
    I just read an article the other day that said that 97% of the percentages on the Internet are bogus, especially when they come from marketers. At least I'm 97.5% sure that's what it said.

    Wait.

    Where'd I get those percentages again?

    *********************************************

    As far as posting on this forum and coming out the other side alive without getting your pee-pee smacked by active and skeptical members is concerned, I would like to defer to the words of Woody Allen:

    "Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow death...No, wait! Run! I shall run through the valley of death....Get through the valley much quicker that way!"

    Elmo
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  • Profile picture of the author Don Grace
    Oh good lord...

    To the OP... You must realize (or not due to lack of experience) that a few of us here make kick ass livings writing copy exclusively, so the points made (As confrontational as you perceive them to be) come from years of experience. So when someone comes into this sub-forum "acting" like an expert who's sold millions online giving "copy saving" advice it will always be met with expert criticism. Man, we get that stuff here on a regular basis so if you can't back up your stuff with hard numbers and proof... step off the soap box.

    Point is... as crusty, salty, and grizzled some responses may be, they are valid and from guys who know what they're talking about. And they're doing a service to newer guys by pointing out flaws so hopefully noobie copywriters do not take crappy advice from folks who are "faking it till making it". (To be clear none of this is a personal accusation directed at you personally because I have no idea what you've accomplished. It's a generalization of the majorities of yahoos coming in here spouting off verbal diarrhea which is all too common).
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    • Originally Posted by Don Grace View Post

      Oh good lord...

      To the OP... You must realize (or not due to lack of experience) that a few of us here make kick ass livings writing copy exclusively, so the points made (As confrontational as you perceive them to be) come from years of experience. So when someone comes into this sub-forum "acting" like an expert who's sold millions online giving "copy saving" advice it will always be met with expert criticism. Man, we get that stuff here on a regular basis so if you can't back up your stuff with hard numbers and proof... step off the soap box.

      Point is... as crusty, salty, and grizzled some responses may be, they are valid and from guys who know what they're talking about. And they're doing a service to newer guys by pointing out flaws so hopefully noobie copywriters do not take crappy advice from folks who are "faking it till making it". (To be clear none of this is a personal accusation directed at you personally because I have no idea what you've accomplished. It's a generalization of the majorities of yahoos coming in here spouting off verbal diarrhea which is all too common).
      I'll agree i was being rather spontaneous when i type out those percentages but i'll let you know where i'm coming from - i "ran" my little direct response marketing company for a few years and reached the peak of the media buying business (though i no longer).

      While Alex brought out his big Copywriting gun wanting to shoot down a "faking it til making it" writer as me, HA! (as Mr Grace put it) saying - "Nope. If an offer is good enough (irresistible) the importance of the other copy elements is reduced in comparison."

      Well he needs understand - Media Buying101 - selecting an offer is the first step to a successful campaign, you don't even select an offer without the help of your affiliate manager!

      I started a few threads in the media buying sub-forum; in those threads i covered everything about selecting the best selling offer from the world appealing industries online and when i got to the thread where i posted about designing landing pages....i thought to post the copy creation here, gave it a sassy headline and got the so called gurus here showing off!

      Like i said before i've used this method to some varying degree of success, i've built successful campaigns capitalizing on the emotions of the prospects, harmonizing my ads' and lander's with its one true voice completely rejecting the copy written by top guys like you provided by the affiliate networks i worked with.
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      • Profile picture of the author Alex Cohen
        Originally Posted by giotheinternetboy View Post

        While Alex brought out his big Copywriting gun wanting to shoot down a "faking it til making it" writer as me, HA! (as Mr Grace put it) saying - "Nope. If an offer is good enough (irresistible) the importance of the other copy elements is reduced in comparison."

        Well he needs understand - Media Buying101 - selecting an offer is the first step to a successful campaign, you don't even select an offer without the help of your affiliate manager!
        Don't make assumptions. I've played both the CPA and affiliate marketing games... and bought tons of media.

        Here's what YOU need to understand: The term "offer" has two uses.

        1. Yes, in the CPA and affiliate marketing games, an offer is what you select and drive traffic to.

        2. In the copywriting game, the offer is part of the copy. It includes establishing value, creating urgency, offering a guarantee, bonuses, and of course stating the price. (There can be other pieces as well.)

        So obviously, my comments about the offer were in the context of the second use. Well, it should have been obvious.

        Alex
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        • Originally Posted by Alex Cohen View Post

          Don't make assumptions. I've played both the CPA and affiliate marketing games... and bought tons of media.

          Here's what YOU need to understand: The term "offer" has two uses.

          1. Yes, in the CPA and affiliate marketing games, an offer is what you select and drive traffic to.

          2. In the sales piece writing game, the offer is part of the copy. It includes establishing value, creating urgency, offering a guarantee, and of course stating the price. (There can be other pieces as well.)

          So obviously, my comments about the offer were in the context of the second use. Well, it should have been obvious.

          Alex
          Then you don't get my drift...may be it's because i'm quite unorthodox and perhaps didn't put it in the conventional way you're trained to but if you know the David Frey's 12 step sales letter formula I REFERRED TO AS MY THIRD STYLE OF WRITING...

          1. Get attention
          2. Identify the problem
          3. Provide the solution
          4. Present your credentials
          5. Show the benefits
          6. Give social proof
          7. Make your offer (establish value)
          8. Inject scarcity (creating urgency)
          9. Give a guarantee (offering a guarantee)
          10. Call to action (state the price)
          11. Give a warning
          12. Close with a reminder

          You'll find out that what you actually referred to as an offer in the "sales piece writing game"...were actually steps in this style of writing i recommended.

          My whole point and what exactly i was trying to pass across when i left the offer out KNOWING the styles of writing i'd recommend would have it taken care of - was as in 1 & 2 in the above list...

          If you're running say a weight loss product, and your headline just says "another me too weight loss product" it's going to be a total disaster!

          But coming fresh out of research tapping into emotions of the prospects, writing poignant headlines racks up the conversion rates! Also as in 2 in David Frey's steps - identify the problem - what i like to do is identify the problem and aggravate it, yeah twist the knife! I wouldn't be able to do that if i was obscured of the prospects emotions...

          One last thing MY GUIDE IS FOR PRE-SELL LANDING PAGES COPY WHICH RE-DIRECTS THE PROSPECTS TO THE PRODUCT SALESPAGE - which means if you went with the other styles of writing like telling a story or emphasizing the customers' pain only where you wouldn't include the "offer" - you'd still have them redirected to the salespage where they'd get the "offer".

          So you see i do know what i'm talking about! And boy it works!
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          • Profile picture of the author Alex Cohen
            Originally Posted by giotheinternetboy View Post

            7. Make your offer (establish value)
            8. Inject scarcity (creating urgency)
            9. Give a guarantee (offering a guarantee)
            10. Call to action (state the price)
            You got two of the four correct.

            Alex
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            • Originally Posted by Alex Cohen View Post

              You got two of the four correct.

              Alex
              Kindly point that out will ya?
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              • Profile picture of the author Alex Cohen
                Originally Posted by giotheinternetboy View Post

                Kindly point that out will ya?
                Establishing value is a technique used by copywriters to convince a prospect that the value he will receive when he buys exceeds what he's being asked to pay.

                Sometimes the price is stated in the offer section, sometimes in the call to action section, sometimes both, and sometimes neither. The call to action's purpose is to get the prospect to click the buy button.

                Alex
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  • Profile picture of the author sethczerepak
    Hi Gio,

    Welcome to Warriorforum

    Good to have you.

    It looks like you might have read a book or product on how to position yourself as an authority and you decided to hit the ground running. Good for you. Just like to point out some things you can learn from this thread going forward...

    1) Reputation starts with Rapport, continues with respect and THEN it grows through contribution.

    You started with contribution. Unfortunately, your post shows that you have a lot to learn about this craft. You would have been better off building rapport by listening and learning from the pros on here.

    I'll point out a few things at the end of this thread. But you should know that you've read in those "how to position yourself as an expert without being one first" books and in products online, much of it was probably written by people just like you. They smelled the money from this niche, they read a few books and decided to become "fake it till you make it" experts.

    The result...a lot of "spontaneous" (<---your word), untested content like this coming from people who haven't take the hard hits on the chin out in the blood stained battlefield. You stepped right out into the war, which takes balls. But you need thicker armor and some more wisdom before you can expect to skate by with untested "spontaneous" claims.

    Originally Posted by giotheinternetboy View Post

    I stand corrected!

    but this thread's got over 200 views which means i did something right...i'm only having problems with the copywriting gurus and their egos!
    2) No, you're having problems with "guardians" who are protecting the integrity of this forum by calling things as they see them. EGO is one thing, passion for protecting the copywriting gene pool is another.

    As for the 200 views, this ain't (<---compliments of the Copy Nazi )a numbers game my friend. Unless you want to join the thousands of online marketing and social media gurus who mislead hundreds with erroneous claims about how you "NEED" to be on Facebook, Pinterest, Twitter due to the billions of users on there, ignoring the fact that TRUSTED media is more important than popular media and that quality comes before volume.

    While I can only speak for myself, it suspect that a lot of these responses, again, are people who want to keep the newbies, who are here to LEARN and not to swing their d***s around knocking things over and making a mess as they try to plant their flag in the ground, from being led to the isle of make believe by the siren song of "fake it till you make it." In other words, even a turd draws a million flies, but I bet you a $1 they ain't makin' no honey.

    Originally Posted by marciayudkin View Post

    You lost me there. This is so not true.

    There are some niches where you can find the keywords to get traffic yet the niche is not profitable. A friend of mine, for example, wasted years targeting the "frugal" niche. Lots of enthusiasm and traffic, but he never made money on that niche.

    Marcia Yudkin
    3) Marcia has a point. And again, quality first, volume later. A man in the middle of the Pacific ocean is surrounded by water, but if he drinks it, he spends the last few hours of his life seeing sharks in tu-tus dancing around a naked Cadillac as he poops green foam and dries up from the inside out. Money moves because of human need and because of value, follow that and you'll find the gold.

    Originally Posted by giotheinternetboy View Post

    That was a quote from an internet marketing great, and i think it is absolutely correct but you seem to be looking at it from a different angle...basically when you discover the keyword you've found the marketplace for that keyword for example you discovered the frugal keyword - it is a marketplace online or a niche. It being profitable depends entirely on a different thing - if you ask what are the top niches online - by just telling dating - you have discover the dating marketplace.
    4) Please do share who this "internet marketing great" is and let us make up our own minds. Again, hundreds of people in this space have never made money in other niches and some are making only a fraction of what they claim to be. This forum might not be the MENSA club, but there are some sharp tools in this shed my friend so we know the difference between rain and pee pee down our backs.

    No scientist would, respectfully anyway, expect his peers to believe his theories because "many studies have shown it to be true."

    Originally Posted by Alex Cohen View Post

    Besides the obvious fact that these percentages were dreamed up in Fantasyland, they add up to 105%.

    Alex
    4) 45% of statistics are made up on the spot. My advice, stick with the other 55%.

    Originally Posted by The Copy Nazi View Post


    I wonder if the new owners will sort this out or will we still be invaded by all these sub-species?
    Two words. Natural selection .

    Originally Posted by Don Grace View Post

    Oh good lord...

    To the OP... You must realize (or not due to lack of experience) that a few of us here make kick ass livings writing copy exclusively, so the points made (As confrontational as you perceive them to be) come from years of experience. So when someone comes into this sub-forum "acting" like an expert who's sold millions online giving "copy saving" advice it will always be met with expert criticism. Man, we get that stuff here on a regular basis so if you can't back up your stuff with hard numbers and proof... step off the soap box.

    Point is... as crusty, salty, and grizzled some responses may be, they are valid and from guys who know what they're talking about. And they're doing a service to newer guys by pointing out flaws so hopefully noobie copywriters do not take crappy advice from folks who are "faking it till making it". (To be clear none of this is a personal accusation directed at you personally because I have no idea what you've accomplished. It's a generalization of the majorities of yahoos coming in here spouting off verbal diarrhea which is all too common).
    5) Verbal Diarrhea. brilliant. I too would like to add that this is not personal. I hope to see you learn from this and add a valuable contribution to this niche. I really do. We need more genuine experts. But you've got two ears and one mouth, and that means more opportunities to be silent and to listen before speaking. I'd suggest you make the most of those opportunities (<---Thomas Edison said that BTW, I suspect he knew what he was talking about).

    Originally Posted by giotheinternetboy View Post

    I'll agree i was being rather spontaneous when i type out those percentages but i'll let you know where i'm coming from - i "ran" my little direct response marketing company for a few years and reached the peak of the media buying business (though i no longer).

    While Alex brought out his big Copywriting gun wanting to shoot down a "faking it til making it" writer as me, HA! (as Mr Grace put it) saying - "Nope. If an offer is good enough (irresistible) the importance of the other copy elements is reduced in comparison."

    Well he needs understand - Media Buying101 - selecting an offer is the first step to a successful campaign, you don't even select an offer without the help of your affiliate manager!

    I started a few threads in the media buying sub-forum; in those threads i covered everything about selecting the best selling offer from the world appealing industries online and when i got to the thread where i posted about designing landing pages....i thought to post the copy creation here, gave it a sassy headline and got the so called gurus here showing off!

    Like i said before i've used this method to some varying degree of success, i've built successful campaigns capitalizing on the emotions of the prospects, harmonizing my ads' and lander's with its one true voice completely rejecting the copy written by top guys like you provided by the affiliate networks i worked with.
    Ummm...what?


    I think the word "spontaneous" nails your problem my man. This stream of "make it up as you go along consciousness stuff" is going to lead you off a cliff and into obscurity. And those passive aggressive jabs like "so called" aren't getting you anywhere. So you got a case of sneakerbreath, we've all done it, myself included. But that doesn't mean you have to eat your socks for desert.

    Again, rapport, respect, contribution.

    Great copywriting is a blend of:

    1) Targeting the right audience (See Dan Kennedy's work on this. See Ali Brown's chapter in Entrepreneur's book on Information Marketing. See Robert Skrob's work on this and Gary Halbert's writings about why you need a hungry crowd).
    2) Using the most trusted media (Check out Dan Kennedy's book on trust based marketing, see the stats about direct mail vs online. You'll see that trusted media beats popular and that the media channel can make a big difference in the copy's success).
    3) A Well POSITIONED offer (see Jack Trout's books on positioning. See Dan Kennedy and Bill Glazer's work on this).
    4) A well TIMED messages (See Michael Masterson's "Great Leads," and Eugene Schwartz's work on this and "The 24 Hour Marketing Miracle by yours truly).
    5) A kigass copywriting message based on a well-POSITIONED hook (see Kyle Leon's stuff on Click bank and how he stood out in the most saturated, lowtrust niche. See John Carlton's one legged golfer ad and "The End of America")

    Get these right, and the copywriting comes NATURALLY out of those. Get them wrong and writing becomes like giving a root canal to Tasmanian Devil (for the read and writer alike).

    I don't have exact stats because it differs from one niche to the next. But you'll find the real experts talking about all those common threads when they write. If you stick with this, you'll discover that these are the common threads.

    But even reading the expert's books doesn't teach you everything. You've gotta get out there and get some red hand prints on your back before you're ready to become a Warrior.

    That's it. You can debate and defend me on this or you can learn something. Frankly, it means nothing to me either way. But if you stick with this, you'll learn them the hard way, and someday, you'll log onto this forum, see a thread like this and sigh "oh boy, another one of these..." and then you'll understand that there's a difference between being an EGO driven "so called" guru, and being passionate about keeping the marketing gene pool pure.

    Best of luck to you, and hope to see you here again.
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    • Originally Posted by sethczerepak View Post

      Hi Gio,

      Welcome to Warriorforum

      Good to have you.

      It looks like you might have read a book or product on how to position yourself as an authority and you decided to hit the ground running. Good for you. Just like to point out some things you can learn from this thread going forward...

      1) Reputation starts with Rapport, continues with respect and THEN it grows through contribution.

      You started with contribution. Unfortunately, your post shows that you have a lot to learn about this craft. You would have been better off building rapport by listening and learning from the pros on here.

      I'll point out a few things at the end of this thread. But you should know that you've read in those "how to position yourself as an expert without being one first" books and in products online, much of it was probably written by people just like you. They smelled the money from this niche, they read a few books and decided to become "fake it till you make it" experts.

      The result...a lot of "spontaneous" (<---your word), untested content like this coming from people who haven't take the hard hits on the chin out in the blood stained battlefield. You stepped right out into the war, which takes balls. But you need thicker armor and some more wisdom before you can expect to skate by with untested "spontaneous" claims.



      2) No, you're having problems with "guardians" who are protecting the integrity of this forum by calling things as they see them. EGO is one thing, passion for protecting the copywriting gene pool is another.

      As for the 200 views, this ain't (<---compliments of the Copy Nazi )a numbers game my friend. Unless you want to join the thousands of online marketing and social media gurus who mislead hundreds with erroneous claims about how you "NEED" to be on Facebook, Pinterest, Twitter due to the billions of users on there, ignoring the fact that TRUSTED media is more important than popular media and that quality comes before volume.

      While I can only speak for myself, it suspect that a lot of these responses, again, are people who want to keep the newbies, who are here to LEARN and not to swing their d***s around knocking things over and making a mess as they try to plant their flag in the ground, from being led to the isle of make believe by the siren song of "fake it till you make it." In other words, even a turd draws a million flies, but I bet you a $1 they ain't makin' no honey.



      3) Marcia has a point. And again, quality first, volume later. A man in the middle of the Pacific ocean is surrounded by water, but if he drinks it, he spends the last few hours of his life seeing sharks in tu-tus dancing around a naked Cadillac as he poops green foam and dries up from the inside out. Money moves because of human need and because of value, follow that and you'll find the gold.



      4) Please do share who this "internet marketing great" is and let us make up our own minds. Again, hundreds of people in this space have never made money in other niches and some are making only a fraction of what they claim to be. This forum might not be the MENSA club, but there are some sharp tools in this shed my friend so we know the difference between rain and pee pee down our backs.

      No scientist would, respectfully anyway, expect his peers to believe his theories because "many studies have shown it to be true."



      4) 45% of statistics are made up on the spot. My advice, stick with the other 55%.



      Two words. Natural selection .



      5) Verbal Diarrhea. brilliant. I too would like to add that this is not personal. I hope to see you learn from this and add a valuable contribution to this niche. I really do. We need more genuine experts. But you've got two ears and one mouth, and that means more opportunities to be silent and to listen before speaking. I'd suggest you make the most of those opportunities (<---Thomas Edison said that BTW, I suspect he knew what he was talking about).



      Ummm...what?

      Billy Madison - Everyone is now dumber - YouTube

      I think the word "spontaneous" nails your problem my man. This stream of "make it up as you go along consciousness stuff" is going to lead you off a cliff and into obscurity. And those passive aggressive jabs like "so called" aren't getting you anywhere. So you got a case of sneakerbreath, we've all done it, myself included. But that doesn't mean you have to eat your socks for desert.

      Again, rapport, respect, contribution.

      Great copywriting is a blend of:

      1) Targeting the right audience (See Dan Kennedy's work on this. See Ali Brown's chapter in Entrepreneur's book on Information Marketing. See Robert Skrob's work on this and Gary Halbert's writings about why you need a hungry crowd).
      2) Using the most trusted media (Check out Dan Kennedy's book on trust based marketing, see the stats about direct mail vs online. You'll see that trusted media beats popular and that the media channel can make a big difference in the copy's success).
      3) A Well POSITIONED offer (see Jack Trout's books on positioning. See Dan Kennedy and Bill Glazer's work on this).
      4) A well TIMED messages (See Michael Masterson's "Great Leads," and Eugene Schwartz's work on this and "The 24 Hour Marketing Miracle by yours truly).
      5) A kigass copywriting message based on a well-POSITIONED hook (see Kyle Leon's stuff on Click bank and how he stood out in the most saturated, lowtrust niche. See John Carlton's one legged golfer ad and "The End of America")

      Get these right, and the copywriting comes NATURALLY out of those. Get them wrong and writing becomes like giving a root canal to Tasmanian Devil (for the read and writer alike).

      I don't have exact stats because it differs from one niche to the next. But you'll find the real experts talking about all those common threads when they write. If you stick with this, you'll discover that these are the common threads.

      But even reading the expert's books doesn't teach you everything. You've gotta get out there and get some red hand prints on your back before you're ready to become a Warrior.

      That's it. You can debate and defend me on this or you can learn something. Frankly, it means nothing to me either way. But if you stick with this, you'll learn them the hard way, and someday, you'll log onto this forum, see a thread like this and sigh "oh boy, another one of these..." and then you'll understand that there's a difference between being an EGO driven "so called" guru, and being passionate about keeping the marketing gene pool pure.

      Best of luck to you, and hope to see you here again.
      Epic Seth, really! Kinda read your post from bottom to center and from there pick up any paragraph...!

      Must have been the same way you read my post (the main topic of discussion) before you wrote yours. Or did you even read at all? I doubt because you said i didn't give the name of the "internet marketing great" (read the main post and find out) who i said he is.

      This blunder of yours clearly gives away your stand - guys like you (no offense) come in here already loyal to the "guardians" as you put it, read their posts and don't bother about getting into the bone of contention. Then come up with an epic post how dumb i am!

      Glad to see y'all sticking together!

      Lastly i'm no expert, never said i was, only posted what i happen to discover to be working, i openly gave links to the writers who'd inspired it...

      And as for your statement "there's a difference between being an EGO driven "so called" guru, and being passionate about keeping the marketing gene pool pure."

      If they truly cared about "being passionate yada yada yada" why aren't they "taking their time out" to contribute when people start threads asking politely to critique their copy or they think threads they've started years back which has drifted to the abyss of page 2 and 3 will be found. You tell me, you can obviously see the self indulgence.

      And as for you Seth you dropped some really sick stuffs (sick is good!) about copywriting numbering them from 1-5...where were you some one asks to review their work? Yeah probably don't have time but must have spares when you have to show off how smart you are and how dumb am i!

      I ain't going to be dropping any more threads on copywriting not one; my hands are full; i'm currently working with somebody on here, she's ask me to build landing pages and her ads (doing for just a token of $50 - gotta be open here)- i will be using the same strategy i explained above...and promise you i won't be back ready to gloat except i absolutely have to!

      To all the viewers; don't get caught up with all these razzmatazz...conversion$ is all that matters, they pay the bills...why the "guardians" can have the trophy for the best copywriter in the world i can only care about conversion!

      Thank you!
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      • Profile picture of the author sethczerepak
        Originally Posted by giotheinternetboy View Post

        ...doing for just a token of $50 - gotta be open here)- i will be using the same strategy i explained above...and promise you i won't be back ready to gloat except i absolutely have to!

        Thank you!
        No, by all means...please do gloat about your $50 writing job.

        And the dude you mentioned is hardly an internet marketing great. He's a dude promoting his own keyword research product, so of course he's gonna say the money is in the keywords.

        Enjoy your Sock Sundae my friend, you earned it.
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        • Profile picture of the author Chriswrighto
          Gio,

          This thread became ridiculous the moment you decided to become offended by what people's views were.

          If you wish to be humble about things, read Seth's post again.

          Honestly man... Internet marketing is about cooperation. Not attacking people who really do know their stuff.

          Chris

          P.S. Seth is one of the 'guardians'. Although I prefer Avengers... Marvel Fanboy. :p
          Signature

          Wealthcopywriter.com :)

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          • Originally Posted by Chriswrighto View Post

            Gio,

            This thread became ridiculous the moment you decided to become offended by what people's views were.

            If you wish to be humble about things, read Seth's post again.

            Honestly man... Internet marketing is about cooperation. Not attacking people who really do know their stuff.

            Chris

            P.S. Seth is one of the 'guardians'. Although I prefer Avengers... Marvel Fanboy. :p
            I was humbled and about 2 times i said i stood corrected, anyways let's not say anymore.

            Thanks Chris!
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          • Profile picture of the author sethczerepak
            Originally Posted by Chriswrighto View Post

            P.S. Seth is one of the 'guardians'. Although I prefer Avengers... Marvel Fanboy. :p
            X-Men, then I get to be Wolverine
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            • Profile picture of the author Chriswrighto
              Originally Posted by sethczerepak View Post

              X-Men, then I get to be Wolverine
              Sounds good.

              I can imagine Alex as Professor X:



              And CN as Magneto:



              :p
              Signature

              Wealthcopywriter.com :)

              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9146015].message }}
              • Originally Posted by Chriswrighto View Post

                Sounds good.

                I can imagine Alex as Professor X:



                And CN as Magneto:



                :p
                And i'm guessing i'd be Apocalypse

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              • Profile picture of the author angiecolee
                Originally Posted by Chriswrighto View Post

                Sounds good.

                I can imagine Alex as Professor X:



                And CN as Magneto:



                :p
                I want to play!

                Is there someone who sets stuff on fire? 'Cause I'm good at that.

                Not metaphorically. Literally.
                Signature

                Aspiring copywriters: if you need 1:1 advice from an experienced copy chief, head over to my Phone a Friend page.

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                • Profile picture of the author Chriswrighto
                  Originally Posted by angiecolee View Post

                  I want to play!

                  Is there someone who sets stuff on fire? 'Cause I'm good at that.

                  Not metaphorically. Literally.
                  Well there's this guy...



                  But you strike me as Jean Grey...



                  Heh.
                  Signature

                  Wealthcopywriter.com :)

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                • Profile picture of the author sethczerepak
                  Originally Posted by angiecolee View Post

                  I want to play!

                  Is there someone who sets stuff on fire? 'Cause I'm good at that.

                  Not metaphorically. Literally.


                  Magneto called him a "God among insects..." lot to live up to.
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                  • Profile picture of the author jimbo13
                    Essentially his OP has merit.

                    Spend time researching the market and see what really is going on not what you think.

                    So his keyword example is no different from someone using Amazon reviews to see what words/ phrases are are being used by the market.

                    If you see more than one theme then section your campaigns to reflect this.

                    Use that information to write your headline.

                    Run this theme through your story as stories sell better than lists of facts.

                    Ask for an action to take place.

                    It might not be groundbreaking or new to many of people who come to this Forum but that doesn't make it invalid.

                    Seems he was derided from the off hence back and forth.

                    Dan
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                    • Profile picture of the author Alex Cohen
                      Shows the importance of starting off on the right foot, doesn't it?

                      The first section in the OP consisted of made-up statistics. Why would anyone who takes writing persuasion seriously read on? I didn't.

                      Alex
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        • Originally Posted by sethczerepak View Post

          No, by all means...please do gloat about your $50 writing job.
          I meant i won't be here to gloat about the results i'd get with the same strategy you so despise and rubbish...not the $50 writing job.
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          • Profile picture of the author BrianMcLeod
            Originally Posted by giotheinternetboy View Post

            I meant i won't be here to gloat about the results i'd get with the same strategy you so despise and rubbish...not the $50 writing job.
            It's not your "strategy" that's ruffling feathers, Gio.

            Do you think what you've posted is NEW? Do you not realize that many of the people you purport to be teaching here PERSONALLY KNOW and WORK WITH the experts you hold up as both proof and a shield?

            You, like a marching army before you, think what you've posted here matters... and so you defend it like a beachhead against enemy attack.

            Good luck with that.

            The Copywriting subforum is a self-cleaning oven.

            And you're getting crispy around the edges.
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            • Originally Posted by BrianMcLeod View Post

              It's not your "strategy" that's ruffling feathers, Gio.

              Do you think what you've posted is NEW? Do you not realize that many of the people you purport to be teaching here PERSONALLY KNOW and WORK WITH the experts you hold up as both proof and a shield?

              You, like a marching army before you, think what you've posted here matters... and so you defend it like a beachhead against enemy attack.

              Good luck with that.

              The Copywriting subforum is a self-cleaning oven.

              And you're getting crispy around the edges.
              Never said it was mine...i only brought it together just in case someone might need it on here...someone like splittest.

              i was only trying to help out...think i took time out to punch over a thousand or so words for this!
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          • Profile picture of the author sethczerepak
            Originally Posted by giotheinternetboy View Post

            I meant i won't be here to gloat about the results i'd get with the same strategy you so despise and rubbish...not the $50 writing job.
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      • Profile picture of the author perryny
        Originally Posted by giotheinternetboy View Post

        I ain't going to be dropping any more threads on copywriting not one
        At least he learned a new word from Mal, so this thread wasn't a total loss ...
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      • Profile picture of the author John Krone
        Originally Posted by giotheinternetboy View Post

        Epic Seth, really!
        Glad to see y'all sticking together!
        Dude! Don't put me in with this crowd!

        I want zip to do with that rather large growing pile, of brain clouding ego spiced with sarcasm. How can it not seep into their copy too?

        You made a great insightful post. If someone doesn't give a thoughtful, intelligent response, then they're really not interested in learning or teaching. That's all you need to know. If they do, they have my respect.
        Signature
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        This Crash Course shows you how.
        Johnkrone.com
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        • Profile picture of the author Cool Hand Luke
          Originally Posted by John Krone View Post

          Dude! Don't put me in with this crowd!

          I want zip to do with that rather large growing pile, of brain clouding ego spiced with sarcasm. How can it not seep out of their copy too?

          You made a great insightful post. If someone doesn't give a thoughtful, intelligent response, then they're really not interested in learning or teaching. That's all you need to know. If they do, they have my respect.
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  • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
    Banned
    I'm having problems with the copywhiting goowoos and their egos, man.

    Anyone hungry?


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  • Profile picture of the author clever7
    As an ignorant reader I would like to say that I liked the OP’s ideas and I also liked your criticism.

    I will keep visiting this interesting section of the WF. Thank you!





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