I remember when a WSO...

130 replies
I remember when a WSO didnt require anything but a good offer to make money.

No need to JV with people.
No list needed.
No silly tricks.

Just a sold product, a decent sales letter and a special price.

Anyone else remember the "easy" days?
#remember #wso
  • Profile picture of the author mr2monster
    I remember when a WSO was a Warrior SPECIAL offer....
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    • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
      Originally Posted by mr2monster View Post

      I remember when a WSO was a Warrior SPECIAL offer....
      Me too. Even when they where free.

      Tamil,

      I know. What prompted my post was someone giving a list of things to do when running a WSO and it made me reflect when we didnt need to do anything. Much less silly tricks.
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      • Profile picture of the author hogoku
        hi,

        may i know what is the difference in the various terminology? like War Room Member, Senior Warrior, etc....Is it associated with the length of time a person is in this forum??

        What is the advantage of becoming a War Room Member? What is WSO?

        Still learning the ropes here. Would be great if anyone could help me become wiser.


        Thanks much!
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  • Profile picture of the author TamilYoung
    Even now, WSO's are great for making money. If you are able to make up a quality product and more importantly place it right with a great salescopy, you can make some great money. Yeah, those are the nostalgic days where we can bump in a product and make easy sales. May be it is not that easy today, but still with the right strategy, we can pump in a lot!
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  • Profile picture of the author hassan007
    Actually these days online marketers focus more on the makeup of sales page and the charming story on it....

    Videos are exaggerated many of the times....

    This work becomes tough to compete at times.....

    I remember the time back in 2006.... When there was no hard competitions, people buy easily and it was really easy to make money....
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  • Profile picture of the author Fraggler
    Originally Posted by GarrieWilson View Post

    I remember when a WSO didnt require anything but a good offer to make money.

    No need to JV with people.
    No list needed.
    No silly tricks.

    Just a sold product, a decent sales letter and a special price.

    Anyone else remember the "easy" days?
    Only to have had the foresight to set those things up when it was the 'easy days'...

    Never to late to start?
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  • Profile picture of the author E. Brian Rose
    To quote my pal, Billy Joel, "The good ol' days weren't always good".

    Sure, it was a breeze to put together a good offer and make a bunch of sales, but when your product ran its course, it ran its course. Today, products can live a lot longer and find life outside of the Warrior Forum. This is mainly due to the number of folks willing and able to JV partner with you.

    Back in your good ol' days, there wasn't much JVing going on here. It was more like every man for themselves.

    Today, your potential is so much greater and it can be much easier to make sales than it was back in the day, if you are willing to lay the groundwork first. A wee bit of networking and you can build yourself an army of affiliates. Then, when you launch a product, all you have to do is shoot out an email that assembles the troops.

    I believe the next line of the song went, "Tomorrow's not as bad as it seems." Lay the groundwork and you will have a fantastic tomorrow!

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    • Profile picture of the author Alan Petersen
      Originally Posted by E. Brian Rose View Post

      To quote my pal, Billy Joel, "The good ol' days weren't always good".

      Sure, it was a breeze to put together a good offer and make a bunch of sales, but when your product ran its course, it ran its course.
      Ah, no, after it's WSO run, that's when it would be launched to the general public. Usually on ClickBank for a higher price. Now WSO buyers are the general public.

      It's all good, but I can see why Garrie is reminiscing about the old days.
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
    Sure, it was a breeze to put together a good offer and make a bunch of sales, but when your product ran its course, it ran its course. Today, products can live a lot longer and find life outside of the Warrior Forum.
    Oh, Brian, Brian, Brian. You newbies have no clue what someone like Garrie means when they look back at "the good old daze."

    Of course, based on his join date, Garrie is a bit of a newbie to some of us.

    When they first started, there were no "Made for WSO" products. Weren't allowed. If you couldn't show where you were actively selling the product outside the forum, you didn't get to sell it here.


    Paul
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    • Profile picture of the author Henry White
      Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

      ...

      When they first started, there were no "Made for WSO" products. Weren't allowed. If you couldn't show where you were actively selling the product outside the forum, you didn't get to sell it here.


      Paul
      Proof that change isn't always progress.
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      • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Henry White View Post

        Proof that change isn't always progress.
        I'd tend to agree with this. So what led to the change?
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    • Profile picture of the author Michael Meaney
      Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

      If you couldn't show where you were actively selling the product outside the forum, you didn't get to sell it here.
      Obviously I wasn't around to experience that rule, but it's a shame that it's not in force anymore. It might have prevented the minority of newbie "marketers" that are creating wsos in the hope of making a quick buck, without considering the value of what they are selling. Since I wasn't here my assumptions could be completely wrong, I'm sure there's always been a certain number of unsuccessful newbies selling wsos to other newbies.
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      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
        I've only been a member here for 5 years. This December will be my 6 year
        anniversary.

        I don't remember the "good old days" but I do remember that when I first joined,
        I waited 6 months to run my first WSO because I wanted to build up some
        credibility and trust among the members first. Of course busting into this place
        like a bull in a China shop didn't help, something I regret to this day. But it's
        water under the bridge and I can't undo what's been done.

        But today, somebody joins, pays the War Room Member fee and the next day,
        they run a WSO.

        Where's the trust?

        Where's the credibility?

        It's no different from going to a classified newspaper and taking out an ad.

        Anybody can do it. Just pay the fee.

        But I don't judge. I'm so far out of the loop with this stuff these days that I
        don't really concern myself with it anymore. But boy, it would be nice to walk
        into the WSO forum and see a bunch of sellers with years on the forum and
        a few thousand "relevant and helpful" posts behind them so at least you can
        have a "decent" idea that the person you're going to buy from is still going to
        be here tomorrow and can be trusted, more or less.

        It's the same reason I buy my major appliances from Sears and not from John
        Doe's Appliances.

        Anyway, that's my 2 cents on the subject.

        Sig removed for obvious reasons.
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  • Profile picture of the author sloanjim
    Seems like there's a complete rebellion against W.S.O.'s these days. Maybe some changes are needed?
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Jim,
      Seems like there's a complete rebellion against W.S.O.'s these days. Maybe some changes are needed?
      Maybe, but there's hardly a complete rebellion. A relatively small number of people are making a ton of noise. Most of the ones who believe they have real problems haven't bothered to report them using the process in place for dealing with them.

      The majority of the noise is either people who hate the emails they get after buying, the number of people plugging WSOs via email mercilessly, or the OTOs that go with some offers.

      There are also a fair number from people who've read the other gripes, never bought anything there, and think they're somehow going to get some sort of "points" with someone by bashing.

      Occasionally someone has a legitimate gripe, and we deal with those when we see them.

      Now... If you have specific suggestions for improvements you think are needed, PM me. You've been around long enough to know I'll listen.


      Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author sloanjim
    Hmm..not what I remember. Pre 2003 was easier for sure....My guess everyman and his dog is now an I.M expert. Pre 2003 there was definitley much less competetion. It's getting very saturated out there now.
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  • Profile picture of the author Frank Ayres
    The thing that annoys me the most with WSOs currently is when you see one you really want to buy and it is just a pre sale advert!

    It is so frustrating not being able to buy it when you see it and 9 times out of 10 i forget all about it when it does go onsale and they lose a sale from it, wish it could go back to days of no pre sale WSOs
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  • Profile picture of the author sal64
    ... and then along came a little man with idea.

    He said hey, I can make money selling wso's about how to make money selling wso's.

    And he did...

    and he spawned a new niche...

    The rest is history.

    Sal

    PS: I also remember when being gay meant that you were happy.
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    • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
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      • Profile picture of the author sal64
        Originally Posted by BIG Mike View Post

        I'm fairly certain I was the first person to sell one of these, but could be wrong - that was probably six or seven years ago.
        Ah ha! So you're to blame!

        You were a lot small in those days... LITTLE Mike.
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  • Profile picture of the author DianaHeuser
    Thanks Mike,

    That was a really interesting read. Now to get hold of Paul Short and see if that report of his is still available.

    Di
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  • Profile picture of the author WillR
    Originally Posted by GarrieWilson View Post

    I remember when a WSO didnt require anything but a good offer to make money.

    No need to JV with people.
    No list needed.
    No silly tricks.

    Just a sold product, a decent sales letter and a special price.

    Anyone else remember the "easy" days?
    You know what's funny.

    We will all be sitting here in 5 years time thinking back to how easy things were TODAY. So I guess the lesson is, get out there and start selling peeps. It's only going to get harder and harder as time goes on.

    But the more competition there is, the easier it is to stand out and differentiate yourself from all the others.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
      Originally Posted by BIG Mike View Post

      Enjoy how we ran WSO's Old School
      I just got something HUGE out of that.
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    • Profile picture of the author Marcus Rockey
      But the more competition there is, the easier it is to stand out and differentiate yourself from all the others.[/QUOTE]

      I love this post, thanks, you are right on the money. No pun intended :rolleyes:
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  • Profile picture of the author sal64
    The biggest lesson is in your warning at the start.

    Seems to be too many one-basket entrepreneurs these days.
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    • Profile picture of the author Chris Worner
      Originally Posted by sal64 View Post

      Seems to be too many one-basket entrepreneurs these days.
      Don't you mean one hit wonders?

      -Chris
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  • Profile picture of the author Marcus Rockey
    Well I don't remember the good old days, i'm too young!

    I wish!

    I am soon going to release my first WSO and am confident that there are no tricks and certainly no JV's present. I have really focused on value.

    Sales letters are a hot topic but my strategy is NOT to make a fancy sales letter either but keep things in keeping with the product itself. I believe that content should speak for itself without the need for bells and whistles. There's enough of that about already.

    Perhaps my WSO we be like times of old. Perhaps not. Will wait and see.

    Interesting post though, thanks for starting the debate.

    Marcus
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
    Originally Posted by GarrieWilson View Post

    I remember when a WSO didnt require anything but a good offer to make money.

    No need to JV with people.
    No list needed.
    No silly tricks.

    Just a sold product, a decent sales letter and a special price.

    Anyone else remember the "easy" days?
    No need to pay to have a WSO listed.



    Things have changed. That's not all good. That's not all bad. It just is.

    All the best,
    Michael
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    "Ich bin en fuego!"
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  • Profile picture of the author John Romaine
    Originally Posted by GarrieWilson View Post

    No need to JV with people.
    No list needed.
    No silly tricks.

    Just a sold product, a decent sales letter and a special price.
    All of these things you mention will make it easier for those doing the right thing to succeed.

    NO hype. NO BS. Just good SOLID products, support and customer care.
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  • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
    Of course, based on his join date, Garrie is a bit of a newbie to some of us
    But this isnt my original account so you can't go by join date.

    I was arround when we had the crappy software. Joined when Host4Profit first came online. Of course you go further back.
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Garrie,
      But this isnt my original account so you can't go by join date.
      [chuckle] I know. That's why I included the caveat. I was pulling your chain a bit.

      By "crappy software," I presume you mean the Uni-Sol system. That would make you a pre-2002 switch-to-Snitz member, which is where I draw the "old-timers" line.


      Paul

      PS: IIRC, the original account was just "Garrie."
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      • Profile picture of the author R Hagel
        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        That would make you a pre-2002 switch-to-Snitz member, which is where I draw the "old-timers" line.
        Me too. Mainly because I wanted to make sure I didn't fall into the "older than dirt" category myself.

        Becky
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        • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
          Me too. Mainly because I wanted to make sure I didn't fall into the "older than dirt" category myself.
          Careful there, Leroy. We had members back then who haven't yet hit the big 3-0. (Anyone here remember Laksman?)


          Paul
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          • Profile picture of the author R Hagel
            Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

            Careful there, Leroy. We had members back then who haven't yet hit the big 3-0.
            I thought the Uni-Solers aged kind of like dogs -- for every year they were a WF member, you added seven years to their biological age.

            Hmm. Maybe I'm remembering that wrong.
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            • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
              I thought the Uni-Solers aged kind of like dogs
              Honestly, Becky... Is that really your stone to throw?


              Paul "G,D,&R"
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    • Profile picture of the author lgibbon
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      Originally Posted by GarrieWilson View Post

      But this isnt my original account so you can't go by join date.
      I remember, aiusa or something similar wasn't it?
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        Les,
        I remember, aiusa or something similar wasn't it?
        See. I knew there was a reason we kept you around. To keep me on my toes.

        Maybe ais-usa?

        Or was that Mike? I'm never sure.


        Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
    It was either aisusa or ais-usa. I forget which one.

    The forum has come a long way and for the most part - for the better.

    Just so people know, my OP wasnt complaining.
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    • Profile picture of the author Henry White
      Originally Posted by GarrieWilson View Post

      ...

      Just so people know, my OP wasnt complaining.
      All the more interesting that so many are, don't you think?
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        Henry,
        All the more interesting that so many are, don't you think?
        Not really. Predictable, but not all that interesting. It's become the fashion for people to post angry nonsense whenever the WSO section gets mentioned. If you ask them for specifics about their complaints, all they can usually come up with is OTOs, too many affiliates emailing too often, and ending up on too many lists from one purchase.

        Beyond that, it's almost all vague generalities that they seem to be parroting from other people with similarly vague gripes.

        In order:

        1: The OTOs are none of our business, unless they are required in order to do what the offer promised for the original product. In that case, the original offer is fraudulent and will be removed if it's reported.

        2: Affiliates emailing their lists is none of our business. If you get too much from one of them, unsubscribe. Nothing we can, or should, do anything about.

        3: We have instituted a new rule that restricts sellers from sharing lists, even with "JV partners" on a specific product. The new rule is "one purchase, one customer list."

        4: Vague generalities? Not gonna get much traction with that...


        Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author Kim Standerline
    lol I can remember it took me absolutely ages to get my first wso approved because I hadn't got it "just" right, it was an ebook I'd had written for a client on SEO if I remember and he bunked out on me so I sold the PLR rights to it.

    It was when I very first realised the huge value there is in PLR

    Kim
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Paul,
      Just out of curiosity, why did that rule change?
      When we switched to the new forum software and Allen put in the WSO section as a separate part of the place, a lot of policies changed. Things got bigger, and it just sort of slid in the current direction.

      I really don't have all those details down pat, because I didn't have much to do with it for a long time. Michael Tracey handled it so well it was silly for any of the other mods to even look in there. Unless they were buying or selling, of course.

      When it came to the WSO section early on, Michael was The Boss.


      Paul
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        Paul,
        Now it makes sense why it would have gone away a that point.
        Lots of things have changed, a lot. For example, at one point you were required to use your real name and a real, working email address in every post. Everything was in one big basket (forum section), and there was no PM function. And nothing was visible until Allen or I approved it.

        The old rules wouldn't work with a group the size this one has become. We're only a few days away from 5 million posts, and not much further from a half million members.


        Paul
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        • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
          Paul,
          Last time I checked it was around 1 million.
          That was October, 2009. We hit 2 million in August of 2010.

          Figure out the rough daily post average from that...
          Alexa has been busy.
          She accounts for less than 3 days worth of that.


          Paul
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      • Profile picture of the author E. Brian Rose
        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post


        When it came to the WSO section early on, Michael was The Boss.


        Paul
        Michael was Bruce Springsteen? That's awesome!
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        • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
          Brian,
          Michael was Bruce Springsteen? That's awesome!
          Michael was cooler than Springsteen.

          Still is, unless he's turned into an old grump.


          Paul
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      • Profile picture of the author John Romaine
        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        ...and it just sort of slid in the current direction.
        Slid : to move along in continuous contact with a smooth or slippery surface: to slide down a snow-covered hill.
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Short
      Originally Posted by Kim Standerline View Post

      ... it was an ebook I'd had written for a client on SEO if I remember and he bunked out on me so I sold the PLR rights to it.

      It was when I very first realised the huge value there is in PLR

      Kim
      Thankyou, Kim. I have one and a half of such unpaid projects that I've been cursing about for weeks and you provided me with a solution. You just made my day!

      Paul
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      I write stuff for marketers and my current clients keep me comfortably
      busy. But if you make me the right offer, I'll write stuff for you too.
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  • Profile picture of the author LegitIncomes
    As the forum grows, more and more people see the WSO forum, and the money being made in that forum.

    So, here's what happens: Along with all of the very good WSOs, put out by people with years of experience, you have hundreds of people like "Joe".

    "Joe" hasn't made any money online, but he wants to, and he wants to really bad. He thinks the WSO forum is an easy way to make money, so even though he's only got 5 posts to his name, and no experience with a successful online business, he rushes a product out as fast as he can. It's terrible, everything about it sucks. The product, the way it's put together, the sales page, etc... it all sucks!

    And this happens over and over and over again. Every "Joe" does this.

    Now, if "Joe" would have just taken his time, and created a quality product by doing real research, interviewing those who are successful, etc... he could have had a great product! But, "Joe" is way too lazy for that.
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    • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
      Banned
      Originally Posted by LegitIncomes View Post

      As the forum grows, more and more people see the WSO forum, and the money being made in that forum.

      So, here's what happens: Along with all of the very good WSOs, put out by people with years of experience, you have hundreds of people like "Joe".

      "Joe" hasn't made any money online, but he wants to, and he wants to really bad. He thinks the WSO forum is an easy way to make money, so even though he's only got 5 posts to his name, and no experience with a successful online business, he rushes a product out as fast as he can. It's terrible, everything about it sucks. The product, the way it's put together, the sales page, etc... it all sucks!

      And this happens over and over and over again. Every "Joe" does this.

      Now, if "Joe" would have just taken his time, and created a quality product by doing real research, interviewing those who are successful, etc... he could have had a great product! But, "Joe" is way too lazy for that.
      I'm changing my freaking name :rolleyes:.
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        "Joe,"
        I'm changing my freaking name :rolleyes:.
        Have you stopped getting drunk and beating your wife yet?


        Paul

        PS: For the humor-impaired, or anyone who missed it, Joe had a similar reaction when I used that as an example earlier, with a similar hypothetical "Joe." I have no reason to think this Joe does anything of the sort.

        Now, the rumors about him, the three Cowboys cheerleaders, and the inflatable donkey, on the other hand...
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      • Profile picture of the author LegitIncomes
        Originally Posted by Joe Robinson View Post

        I'm changing my freaking name :rolleyes:.
        LOL
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  • Profile picture of the author cloudstrife
    Very interesting thread here. I feel like I am in rarefied air with all you veterans. I am now reading through Big Mike's old WSO. While I was not here back then, this feels like looking into a time machine.
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  • Profile picture of the author Pete Lauder
    In August 2008, the WSO section moved to its present address, here is the WayBack archive of the section.

    I love the bit at the top "General Offers"

    This section is for offers that didn't quite cut it as a Warrior Special Offer.

    Thanks for the trip down memory lane.

    Pete
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    • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

      Now, the rumors about him, the three Cowboys cheerleaders, and the inflatable donkey, on the other hand...
      That one I'll take credit for. Ah, the joys of summer.

      Originally Posted by Pete Lauder View Post

      In August 2008, the WSO section moved to its present address, here is the WayBack archive of the section.

      I love the bit at the top "General Offers"

      This section is for offers that didn't quite cut it as a Warrior Special Offer.

      Thanks for the trip down memory lane.

      Pete
      All the stars were a little hard on the eyes lol. It's crazy; but I don't recognize a single name from those threads. I did see one that looked promising though...:p

      How 2 get all 10 spots on google's front page
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    • Profile picture of the author Kim Standerline
      lol

      Who do I see a third of the way down the page selling her membership script. Gosh its come on a lot since then

      Kim

      Originally Posted by Pete Lauder View Post

      In August 2008, the WSO section moved to its present address, here is the WayBack archive of the section.

      I love the bit at the top "General Offers"

      This section is for offers that didn't quite cut it as a Warrior Special Offer.

      Thanks for the trip down memory lane.

      Pete
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      • Profile picture of the author LegitIncomes
        Originally Posted by Kim Standerline View Post

        lol

        Who do I see a third of the way down the page selling her membership script. Gosh its come on a lot since then

        Kim
        I recognize a few: yourself, myself, Angela Edwards, & Jeremy Kelsall.
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        • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
          Originally Posted by LegitIncomes View Post

          I recognize a few: yourself, myself, Angela Edwards, & Jeremy Kelsall.
          That's all?

          Rookies...


          Paul
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          • Profile picture of the author R Hagel
            Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

            Honestly, Becky... Is that really your stone to throw?
            I was trying the ol' magician's misdirection trick -- trying to point at everyone else so no one would look at me.

            Paul "G,D,&R"
            Got enough of a headstart there, or should I give you a few more minutes?



            Kim,

            Originally Posted by Kim Standerline View Post

            lol

            Who do I see a third of the way down the page selling her membership script. Gosh its come on a lot since then

            Kim

            Wait, what? Dontcha know you're supposed to create products with a shelf life of about 90 day? Some IM'er you are. Sheesh.

            Becky
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            • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
              Becky,
              Got enough of a headstart there, or should I give you a few more minutes?
              Nope. I'm good. Got the engine running and the proxies fired up.

              Here's my list of the names I recognized from that page. I'm betting there are a few that some of you will feel silly for not having noticed...

              TimG, ndcole78, John Rhodes, Kim Standerline, CLawson44, azsno, Boricua, David Pankhurst, Tim Whiston, George Sepich, John Motson, Carlos Garcia, sparrow, alyonafrendo, jimh1626, Adeel_Chowdhry, Amir Darwish, Angela V. Edwards, Sylvia Rolfe, Jeremy Kelsall, Shane Natan, Fabian Tan,
              and Josh Kulp,

              I should probably recognize more of them. At least 15 of those people are still members.


              Paul

              PS: Kim... Did you really forget Cherilynne?
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              • Profile picture of the author Paul Short
                Paul (Myers) some of the people I remember the most are the ones who are no longer here. Let's take a trip down nightmare lane: misato, driver, that guy who got all the sympathy and kept faking his death, etc. Those were the days

                Paul (S)
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                • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
                  Paul,
                  Paul (Myers) some of the people I remember the most are the ones who are no longer here. Let's take a trip down nightmare lane: misato, driver, that guy who got all the sympathy and kept faking his death, etc.
                  I'm not sure who you mean with the third one. It would surprise me more to find the first two weren't still here than that they were. They weren't the worst of it, though. Not by a long shot.

                  If you want to figure out how weird it can get, folks, consider a guy who adopts the persona of Misato Katsuragi. Google it for the details.

                  We've had our share of odd ducks over the years...


                  Paul
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                • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
                  Banned
                  Originally Posted by Paul Short View Post

                  that guy who got all the sympathy and kept faking his death
                  Say whaaa? The people want to hear this story .
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                  • Profile picture of the author R Hagel
                    Originally Posted by Joe Robinson View Post

                    Say whaaa? The people want to hear this story .
                    And they will... if they buy the WSO (be sure to buy the Joe Kumar OTO upsell).
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                    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
                      Becky,
                      (be sure to buy the Joe Kumar OTO upsell).
                      He was one of our crop of young freaks from Hong Kong and Singapore.

                      I loved the gag Gary pulled on him to make him admit he'd sent him emails under a fake name. Told him the true story of how telegraph operators could tell who was sending Morse code, based on the speed, length, and spacing of the dots and dashes. Then convinced him he had software that could do the same thing with the contents of an email.

                      Kumar fell for it. Gary sent that story out in his newsletter, and Joe became the laughingstock of the industry. Went from just being hated to hated, pitied, and ridiculed, in one weekend.


                      Paul
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                  • Profile picture of the author Paul Short
                    Originally Posted by Joe Robinson View Post

                    Say whaaa? The people want to hear this story .
                    It would have made a great movie - the protagonist was almost blind, a drug addict, had the kids taken away, had an Eastern European bride, lived in motels and crack houses, faked his death... yet somehow managed to gain the sympathy of a lot of respected warriors in the form of donations, etc. But people wised up when he was charged with pedo... and then it started to get weird. lol
                    Signature
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                    • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
                      Originally Posted by Paul Short View Post

                      It would have made a great movie - the protagonist was almost blind, a drug addict, had the kids taken away, had an Eastern European bride, lived in motels and crack houses, faked his death... yet somehow managed to gain the sympathy of a lot of respected warriors in the form of donations, etc. But people wised up when he was charged with pedo... and then it started to get weird. lol
                      Well after all that, the truth was in fact stranger than what was going through my head.

                      I love the way you ended that with...."and then it started to get weird."
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                    • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
                      Banned
                      Originally Posted by Paul Short View Post

                      It would have made a great movie - the protagonist was almost blind, a drug addict, had the kids taken away, had an Eastern European bride, lived in motels and crack houses, faked his death... yet somehow managed to gain the sympathy of a lot of respected warriors in the form of donations, etc. But people wised up when he was charged with pedo... and then it started to get weird. lol
                      Just mentally plotted out an entirely movie trailer too! anybody want to jump start their acting career...?

                      Edit: I changed my mind. Reading about Joe Kumar, I think that movie would be way more interesting. I'm doing that.
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                • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
                  Originally Posted by Paul Short View Post

                  that guy who got all the sympathy and kept faking his death
                  Forgive my ignorance but how did this person "keep" faking his death?

                  I mean after he died the first time, he'd be dead, so he wouldn't actually recieve the sympathy. Then when he resurfaced and died again, didn't anyone think it was odd?...and then he kept doing it :confused:.

                  Come on Paul, we need more information, I can't get my head round that one.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
                    Banned
                    Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

                    Forgive my ignorance but how did this person "keep" faking his death?

                    I mean after he died the first time, he'd be dead, so he wouldn't actually recieve the sympathy. Then when he resurfaced and died again, didn't anyone think it was odd?...and then he kept doing it :confused:.

                    Come on Paul, we need more information, I can't get my head round that one.
                    I get the feeling that it was a rumor started by another account saying "Oh noes! XXXX is dead!" Then a miraculous comeback later. Process could be repeated, or if they wanted to die for good, have someone (like a fake significant other) come on the main account and say "I regret to inform you that XXXX, in a cruel twist of fate, actually has passed this time. Please help pay for the funeral by buying his last WSO. Oh, and since he is dead, no refunds."

                    Lies like these are always interesting to me. It's fascinating to see what lengths some people will go to to keep up a story.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
                      Originally Posted by Joe Robinson View Post

                      I get the feeling that it was a rumor started by another account saying "Oh noes! XXXX is dead!" Then a miraculous comeback later. Process could be repeated, or if they wanted to die for good, have someone (like a fake significant other) come on the main account and say "I regret to inform you that XXXX, in a cruel twist of fate, actually has passed this time. Please help pay for the funeral by buying his last WSO. Oh, and since he is dead, no refunds."
                      That's sounds more plausible than the weird s*** going round my brain at the moment.
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    • Profile picture of the author kindsvater
      From my forum archives, one of the original "WSO" offers from 2001 ...


      http://kindsvater.com/war102.pdf

      .
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  • Profile picture of the author Rick Britton
    Guess I will find out soon as I will be launching my first
    Signature

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  • Profile picture of the author Ryan David
    When I first posted/read here it was back in 2006. I remembered being totally amazed that Derrick Gehl posted messages because I thought he was famous. Ditto with Willie Crawford. Did Corey Rudl ever post here?

    I also remembered Ken Calhoun, Alice Seba, and Ross Goldberg (later on) posting a lot. Don't think I've seen them in a long time.

    Maybe there are waves of new members that take over and become prolific posters. Right now it seems like 2010'ers post a lot
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    • Profile picture of the author Ryan David
      Lies like these are always interesting to me. It's fascinating to see what lengths some people will go to to keep up a story.
      One of the WSO's I remembered quite a few years back was a guy that advocated selling mortgage leads to real estate agents by advertising houses on ebay? It was something like that. Then a bunch of attorney's/agents chimed in and said that was illegal or something. Then his whole "success story" was called into question when someone else said it was a lie.

      That's off memory so not sure how it happened, but something like that. Maybe 2006 or 2007.
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Ryan,
      Did Corey Rudl ever post here?
      Yep. Corey, Jonathan, Marlon, Yanik, Stephan, Declan, Armand, John Reese, Ken Giddens, Mike Fortin, and pretty much all the rest of them were regulars, once upon a time.

      Most of them left when the haters started bashing anyone and everyone who had any kind of name recognition. I got so disgusted with the senior members putting up with it, and some even joining in, that I bailed for a few months myself.

      I mean, seriously... how can you badmouth Yanik??!

      That crap was the primary reason for Rule #1.


      Paul
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Short
        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        Ryan,Yep. Corey, Jonathan, Marlon, Yanik, Stephan, Declan, Armand, John Reese, Ken Giddens, Mike Fortin, and pretty much all the rest of them were regulars, once upon a time.

        Most of them left when the haters started bashing anyone and everyone who had any kind of name recognition. I got so disgusted with the senior members putting up with it, and some even joining in, that I bailed for a few months myself.

        I mean, seriously... how can you badmouth Yanik??!

        That crap was the primary reason for Rule #1.


        Paul

        If I remember correctly, Gary Halbert (RIP) even posted here a couple times back in the day.

        Paul
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        busy. But if you make me the right offer, I'll write stuff for you too.
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        • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
          If I remember correctly, Gary Halbert (RIP) even posted here a couple times back in the day.
          Yep. No-one was really surprised by that, either.

          But, of course, the freaks came out as soon as they saw a chance to make themselves feel big by slamming someone who was well-known. So Gary left the place, too.


          Paul
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          • Profile picture of the author Mohsin Rasool
            Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

            Yep. No-one was really surprised by that, either.

            But, of course, the freaks came out as soon as they saw a chance to make themselves feel big by slamming someone who was well-known. So Gary left the place, too.


            Paul
            Hi Paul,

            Can you give me tip how you handle situations like that..
            i never want to leave WF when my name get big in business.
            Now i am thinking how will i handle that slamming and bashing...
            any tips?

            -Mohsin
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            • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
              Mohsin,

              That's what Rule #1 is for. Along with the simple realization that the bashers don't matter.

              I really should get more aggressive about just deleting the negative stuff. It's winding up again lately, and it just spreads, like any other poison.


              Paul
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            • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
              Banned
              Originally Posted by Mohsin Rasool View Post

              Hi Paul,

              Can you give me tip how you handle situations like that..
              i never want to leave WF when my name get big in business.
              Now i am thinking how will i handle that slamming and bashing...
              any tips?

              -Mohsin
              I'd say rule #1 does a great job of preventing that kind of bashing here at least. On the rest of the internet? Just throw this up lol:

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      • Profile picture of the author mattlaclear
        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        I mean, seriously... how can you badmouth Yanik??!

        That crap was the primary reason for Rule #1.


        Paul
        It's funny I bet most gurus can go years without ever being badmouthed in the real world. But online it's a different story.

        It's a jealousy I simply do not understand.

        I thought striving for success and overcoming obstacles was a good thing. Has the world really changed that much where the successful are hated?
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  • Profile picture of the author coalminer
    It would be an eye opener and a good kick-up
    the butt if a few newcomers could read this thread...
    The newcomers who are about to launch their first WSO
    just to make a quick buck and know jack sh*t that is..
    Nicky
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    • Profile picture of the author sal64
      Originally Posted by coalminer View Post

      It would be an eye opener and a good kick-up
      the butt if a few newcomers could read this thread...
      The newcomers who are about to launch their first WSO
      just to make a quick buck and know jack sh*t that is..
      Nicky

      Who is this Jack Sh*t everyone refers to and do I need to know him?

      Is he related to that guru from the Himalaya's - Hoogivesa?

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      • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
        Banned
        Originally Posted by sal64 View Post

        Who is this Jack Sh*t everyone refers to and do I need to know him?

        Is he related to that guru from the Himalaya's - Hoogivesa?

        Brothers actually. You know their parents, fulla and loada right? Very popular these days.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mohsin Rasool
    I remember the days when Posting WSO was free
    When image TAG was not allowed in the threads.
    When there was no wso bumps...
    And simple wf like post can be enough as salesletter!
    And also there were no review copies.
    -Mohsin
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  • Profile picture of the author Lightlysalted
    It's definitely much harder to make money now, I actually have to work for it!!!!
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  • Profile picture of the author Ryan David
    Corey, Jonathan, Marlon, Yanik, Stephan, Declan, Armand, John Reese, Ken Giddens, Mike Fortin, and pretty much all the rest of them were regulars, once upon a time.
    I have seen Marlon post here somewhat recently. I definitely remember Jonathan Mizel, Fortin, Ken Giddens, Armand, and John Reese. When I first started online, Armand and Jim Edwards seemed like they were involved with everything but haven’t really heard anything about them (then again, haven’t really sought it out).

    I got started just like a month after Corey Rudl died, but listened to all his old interviews. He had one with Ken McCarthy from 2001 where he talked about developing little niches selling ebooks, it basically was exactly what Frank Kern ended up doing a number of years later. He also mentioned in that interview that he saw a day where advertising/internet would be so intertwined that if you’re watching “Friends” you could click on the couch and find retailers selling the couch. Cool Stuff.
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Ryan,

      Yep. Marlon still posts here. Jonathan, too, once in a while. And Jeff Walker.

      Jim Edwards is doing a lot of interesting stuff. Still active in the business. Just not through the channels a lot of the guys are. Same with Jimmy Brown. They were regulars here for a long time, too.

      Corey was something of a visionary when it came to this stuff. He really "got" the power of interactive advertising, in ways most people still don't.


      Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
    Wow, Misato......that person was such a DRAMA-KING / QUEEN (depending on what day it was). A lot of names being mentioned that I haven't heard about in a quite some time. I remember Marlon posting here (still does from time to time). And the old sh!t-weasel, Halbert, posting here. Long before John Reese, Mike Filsaime, Jeff Walker, Frank Kern, or the hamster king used to post here.......before the Hillbilly marketer was even making moonshine.....lol

    Yes, the WSO forum has changed quite a bit since I first logged onto the Warrior forum circa 1998-99. I remember leaving for a few years and when I came back it had changed even more.

    It's getting bigger and bigger, maybe it's time to double the length of the first page? lol

    Just like the old Bob Dylan Song "times they are a changin".......

    RoD
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  • Profile picture of the author sal64
    I suspect that the sheer volume of WSO's puts immense pressure on the Admin to the point where it would be almost impossible to sift through each one before approval.

    The old rule that it has to be a genuine product is a good one, and in my view, it makes sense for the seller.

    I also like the idea of trust and reputation. Has anyone ever toyed with the idea of splitting it up into 2 sections? Not sure how it would be done, but it has appeal.

    The challenge I see is that there is a cross over between the WSO section and the classified ad section... with the latter infesting the former.

    Self interest not withstanding, I think there is merit in a unique section for those of us who have also contributed on here.

    Maybe a Trusted Warrior merit badge awarded to members who have contributed heaps on here... not just post counts. Something like eBay's Top Seller badge?

    I think that a minimum of 2,067 posts and 1,058 thanks would be a good starting point... just kidding for all the humorless members.

    If there was some way of separating the genuine quality from the new stuff, I'd be up for it.

    Thoughts?
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  • Profile picture of the author Adam Fletcher
    It's been a few years since I last posted here but I remember the good days (in 2006-2008, certainly not as far back as some of the longer standing members here). I bought some amazing WSO's from some really smart people... many seem to have moved on but I still see many names I recognise here.

    Many of the names in this thread bring back memories. I haven't bought from the WSO area for 3 years so I cannot comment on the current state of affairs there but it's good to see some of the long time members are still active and doing well.

    I do feel sorry for the newbies to the forum... there is a whole lot of posts and WSO's to go through, I just hope they take action on the information instead of just buying the next hot offer. For about a year I bought many WSO's without taking real action, it wasn't until I stood back and started taking action that I began to do well.

    Thanks,
    Adam
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  • Profile picture of the author Melkor
    I remember selling Garrie's eBayXtreme to the general public - now that was fun
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    • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
      Originally Posted by Melkor View Post

      I remember selling Garrie's eBayXtreme to the general public - now that was fun
      lol I still get benefit from that. I am working on a new version but have been for a while.
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  • Profile picture of the author DoWhatWorks
    Hi GarrieWilson,

    Thanks for putting a smile on my face. :-)

    Over the years, I've come and gone from the Warrior Forum and I just recently rejoined, but I do remember the time you harken back to. :-)

    -Terry


    Originally Posted by GarrieWilson View Post

    I remember when a WSO didnt require anything but a good offer to make money.

    No need to JV with people.
    No list needed.
    No silly tricks.

    Just a sold product, a decent sales letter and a special price.

    Anyone else remember the "easy" days?
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  • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
    Banned
    Man, why can't more threads end up like this? The title would lead you to believe a bitchfest was coming, and instead there is meaningful discussion, laughs, and reminiscing.
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    • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
      Originally Posted by Joe Robinson View Post

      The title would lead you to believe a bitchfest was coming...
      Maybe that's why so many people have opened it? People love bitchfests.
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      • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
        Banned
        Originally Posted by GarrieWilson View Post

        Maybe that's why so many people have opened it? People love bitchfests.
        Being 110% honest, that's why I opened it . I was literally thinking to myself "Somebody whining about WSO's? Which picture am I going to post this time?"

        Pleasantly surprised that it didn't turn out that way though.
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      The post count discussion brings to the fore just why the member moderation system is so important.

      We're probably averaging somewhere around 6000 posts a day at this point. There is simply no way the mods can read all of those. But I'd wager there aren't a dozen in a day that aren't read by at least one person besides the OP...


      Paul
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      • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        The post count discussion brings to the fore just why the member moderation system is so important.
        I think most people welcomed it too.

        More forums should have it.

        -g
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      • Profile picture of the author mattlaclear
        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        The post count discussion brings to the fore just why the member moderation system is so important.

        We're probably averaging somewhere around 6000 posts a day at this point. There is simply no way the mods can read all of those. But I'd wager there aren't a dozen in a day that aren't read by at least one person besides the OP...


        Paul
        Are you getting a bit feeble in your old age Paul where you can't handle a measly 6000 posts a day on your own without soliciting our free labor?
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  • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
    I remember my first WSO. I think it was in 2007, the year I joined.

    I wrote an ebook on generating free traffic, priced it at $27 for PLR, launched it, and about 48 hours later I had 50+ sales. No list traffic, no JVs, just people hanging out in the WSO section.

    It's definitely getting harder... But if there's one thing I've learned in Internet marketing, you have to change with the times or go extinct. The WSO forum isn't the honey hole it used to be, unless you have affiliates promoting for you or you already have a list.
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  • Profile picture of the author ahlexis
    I remember when a WSO was complete. It cost more, but there was no need to grab an OTO to get an expanded version or additional companion products, because everything was inside as one complete package.

    I kind of miss those days . . .

    I think THIS is kind of cool, though:

    Posted from Warrior Forum Reader
    Didn't know it was there until now.
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  • Profile picture of the author CTonline09
    Yes but now we have courses teaching people to make money online by creating courses that teach people how to make money online without ever actually having made money online in the first place apart from selling a course that tells you how to make money online LOL!

    Sorry for any confusion!

    Newbie comes in, copies an idea without actually implementing the idea, they get a good sales page written, get a good jv competition going, get good affiliates and next week they have $5,000+ grand.

    That's the majority of WSO's today!
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    • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Colin Thompson View Post

      That's the majority of WSO's today!
      I disagree. An annoying minority? Definitely; but just looking through a few pages of the forum shows it is not the majority.

      I'd wager it is also safe to say that those WSOs aren't the ones pulling in $5k in short order either.
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        Jerrel,
        People constantly say that things were better in the old days.
        Who said they were better?

        They were different, but there are good and bad things to all the changes. Overall, I'd say they're better now than they've ever been.


        Paul
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    • Profile picture of the author sal64
      Originally Posted by Colin Thompson View Post

      Yes but now we have courses teaching people to make money online by creating courses that teach people how to make money online without ever actually having made money online in the first place apart from selling a course that tells you how to make money online LOL!

      Sorry for any confusion!

      Newbie comes in, copies an idea without actually implementing the idea, they get a good sales page written, get a good jv competition going, get good affiliates and next week they have $5,000+ grand.

      That's the majority of WSO's today!
      Man that's a pretty poor generalization.

      Unless you have purchased the majority of WSO's, you cannot credibly make that claim.

      As far as the old chestnut goes...

      There is a difference when a product claims How I Made $$$$ and How To Make $$$.

      The latter is just as valid a product as far as I am concerned. Especially if it is based on sound research and the content is relevant and applicable.

      If someone who has never made money with PPC but researches and interviews experts etc and creates the definitive works... then I see no problem with that.

      Sal
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  • Profile picture of the author Marcus Rockey
    What a great thread.

    Is running an offline business that much different to running one on-line? The core principles are the same.

    We could wait, build up a reputation before running a WSO but in my mind that is not proactive. Direct experience, from making mistakes and learning from them is forward thinking, rather than planning our strategy over and over, taking time to 'test the ground.'

    Of course, having real experiences in business is essential. If we have those we have something to offer to the world of WSO's. Period.

    People start new businesses every day and make it work straight off the cuff. What is there to wait for. Surely experienced business people understand that fresh blood, making a real go of it with experience they have gained on-line, offline and life in general is all the qualification one should need.

    I am for supporting one and other to move forward, based on cooperation and genuine care. If someone wants to join WF on day 1, release a product on day 2 then good for them, but please make it good, relevant and an expression of experiences and how to help one and other to make money on-line.

    To our success

    Marcus
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  • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Lacer
    People constantly say that things were better in the old days. Why don't people just focus on the future? What can we do to improve it, instead of just looking back in the past?
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrick
    Hello Paul and other Mods or Admins,

    Why don't you change the title of the WSO thread to Warrior Forum Marketplace, or something else ?

    I am not saying this coz I don't like WSO's or it is something which I hate it or anything, but a WSO is supposed to be a Special Offer given by a person, which he is selling outside at a higher cost. But the section is definitely not what it says. LOL. Its exactly the opposite of it.

    Don't you think you are deceiving newbies ?

    PS. Again, don't take my post negatively.
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    • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
      Originally Posted by schwarzes View Post

      Hello Paul and other Mods or Admins,

      Why don't you change the title of the WSO thread to Warrior Forum Marketplace, or something else ?

      I am not saying this coz I don't like WSO's or it is something which I hate it or anything, but a WSO is supposed to be a Special Offer given by a person, which he is selling outside at a higher cost. But the section is definitely not what it says. LOL. Its exactly the opposite of it.

      Don't you think you are deceiving newbies ?

      PS. Again, don't take my post negatively.
      Paul, you might be onto something here.......Warrior Forum Marketplace does have a nice ring to it. I like it.

      RoD
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  • Profile picture of the author Russel Mogul
    Technology (yes even in IM)is all about innovation and being able to adapt. Your initial post reminds me of people who moan about the current state of music and relive the days of vinyl stores etc....
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Hill
    Time to anti-up and get better at marketing. With more competition in the WSO section it forces you to improve your marketing skills and create a better product. The WSO section is not the only game in town so I don't know why people are complaining about it being so hard, etc...

    Easy sales all come down to your own marketing skills. Don't have any? Don't have a list? Don't have a name in the internet marketing space yet?

    Then do this:

    1. Create a high quality product
    2. Offer 100% commissions on it
    3. Build a list of paying customers
    4. Create an exclusive coaching program limited to a select few
    5. Market that coaching program to your list of buyers
    6. Create a product out of your coaching and sell it for those who did not get into your coaching program or who could not afford the price.

    Trouble is everyone wants easy money... The Truth is no one wants to sacrifice... No one wants to formulate a plan beyond creating one product at a time.

    You need to plan your attack and think 2 products ahead. Plan a strategy and follow through with it. That's how money is made in areas with a lot of competition. It's not about price... it's about VALUE!!!

    Mike Hill
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Don't you think you are deceiving newbies?
      Show me.

      When someone reports a product that's being sold here for the same or higher price as/than to the general public, we close it, or if there's some question about additional bonuses or other stuff that's available here and not elsewhere, we remove the payment buttons and ask the seller.

      If you are aware of a product that's being sold here for the same as or more than to the general public, report it. And include the outside site, so we can verify it.


      Paul
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      • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        Show me.

        When someone reports a product that's being sold here for the same or higher price as/than to the general public, we close it, or if there's some question about additional bonuses or other stuff that's available here and not elsewhere, we remove the payment buttons and ask the seller.

        If you are aware of a product that's being sold here for the same as or more than to the general public, report it. And include the outside site, so we can verify it.


        Paul
        I'm not sure, but this post might have been referring to the numbers of products created just to be WSOs. They're not sold anywhere else because the creator bought a WSO that told him how to make a killing creating WSOs. Most of the products that I've seen and feel to be of low value fall into this category.

        Many of these so-called WSOs are regurgitations of what the creators have read, with no experience added as the creator has no experience with the actual method. This has become standard practice for some and it's usually easy to spot those sellers as they are found elsewhere in the forum asking questions that anyone with actual experience would know.

        Of course, that's why most of us "older Warriors" repeatedly tell folks to check someone out before they buy. Look at their history and run it through your in-built BS meter. Ignore any glowing reviews unless it's someone you personally know and respect - testimonials from random strangers shouldn't factor into it.
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        • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
          Tina,
          I'm not sure, but this post might have been referring to the numbers of products created just to be WSOs.
          That would be a more fair concern. Still, if it's only available here, it's still "special" in that sense. They fall within the rules as they stand now and have for years. Unfortunately, the mix of those includes both really good and really bad products.

          There are lots of things I don't like. The rules don't, however, include "The mods have to like it."


          Paul
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          • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
            Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

            Tina,That would be a more fair concern. Still, if it's only available here, it's still "special" in that sense. They fall within the rules as they stand now and have for years. Unfortunately, the mix of those includes both really good and really bad products.

            There are lots of things I don't like. The rules don't, however, include "The mods have to like it."


            Paul
            I agree that these are allowed under the rules. I can't say as they feel very "special", though.

            I'm hoping the "how to make a killing with WSO" products die out soon. I think the saddest thing about these is that they are creating a whole segment of people who are almost being set up to fail.

            These products teach how to throw together a product but they don't tell you how to earn a reputation on the forum. Not to mention that it is never a wise choice to rely on a single marketplace for your business.
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    • Profile picture of the author AdwordsMogul
      Originally Posted by Mike Hill View Post

      ...
      You need to plan your attack and think 2 products ahead. Plan a strategy and follow through with it. That's how money is made in areas with a lot of competition. It's not about price... it's about VALUE!!!

      Mike Hill
      I agree with you a 100%. Although, it's not the easiest thing to do sometimes in certain financial circumstances.

      Nevertheless, that's the only way to eventually start moving forward and building a real business.
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Hill
        Originally Posted by AdwordsMogul View Post

        I agree with you a 100%. Although, it's not the easiest thing to do sometimes in certain financial circumstances.

        Nevertheless, that's the only way to eventually start moving forward and building a real business.

        This isn't directed at you AdwordsMogul but there is one thing you said that I want to address and maybe others in this situation can see the light sort of speak.

        Although, it's not the easiest thing to do sometimes in certain financial circumstances.
        If people are in certain financial situations then of course things aren't easy. There are a lot of pressures from every angle but, that being said, the only one who put a person in any kind of financial situation (good or bad) is themselves.

        They are the one's who made decisions to get them to where they are today. Nothing in life is "happenstance" ... your quality of life is created by the decisions you make, whether you know at the time it will influence your future the way you intended or not.

        Creating a product doesn't cost anything but skill and time to learn those skills well enough to be able to teach with some authority.

        Marketing is the best skill anyone can learn so long as they take the time to use those skills in the correct way. Meaning, have a plan!
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
    I kind of miss the days where being a Warrior was special.

    I mean no one shared the links to the forum (even the WSO part) outside the forum. While nothing kept anyone from the outside from joining, it was a much more of a private family feel where most of us got access by buying one of Allen's products - not through an email blast of the hour by people who have no idea what community, win-win, or contribution mean.

    Mark
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