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*** Video Ranking - somebody PLEASE prove me wrong. ***

by shockwave
31 replies
I'll probably get crushed for this, but I gotta put it out there just to see if I'm the only one who thinks this way or if I'm way off.

So, I've read through a few WSO's from some very prominent peeps here in WF (but I won't name drop) in regards to ranking videos and renting sites/videos to offline clients even if there is not significant traffic for the keywords being optimized.

I've even read one WSO that said something along the lines of don't go by what the Adwords Keyword tool says. This position was mainly based on the fact that just because a keyword doesn't show traffic counts, doesn't mean it's not worth optimizing for.

.....and this is where my first red flag goes up.

Yes, I understand that if you optimize/dominate the 1st page of Google for a phrase that doesn't show any traffic volume that it can still be valuable. This seems like more of an attempt to sell a WSO (and possibly try to bypass some objections) at that point.

What I see, time and time again, is really impressive results of 1st page domination with video and niche sites......until you dig a little deeper.

What you really find is that ranking videos and/or niche websites is actually pretty easy given that the examples that are used are "typically":

1. Longtail keyword phrase
2. Low competition
3. Hardly any traffic counts

......this, in my book is misleading.

Truth be told, I myself have SEVERAL videos for some specific niches in the contractor trades where I'm KILLING IT on the 1st page of Google that could reap some big money - if my prospective offline client is (dare I say) "uneducated" about what it all really means.

I would like to see some REAL examples of this kind of domination from the "experts" selling WSO's for high competition keywords and significant amounts of traffic. And by significant, lets say something over 500 EXACT MATCH searches per month.

I hope I'm the crazy one here - somebody please school me. Any takers??
#prove #ranking #video #wrong
  • Profile picture of the author jstarx
    Yes its possible, Ive done it , and I dont think Im the expert your looking for here. But get one of these WSO's, read the reviews, and try it yourself. I've done it a few times, and all my videos got on page one. Dont feel like going into examples or looking up the "exact search count" on the keywords, but they were the main keyword for my clients. But bottom line is , if your client is a dentist in cincinatti ohio, and you make a video titled , "dentist cincinatti ohio" and do the steps in the WSO, it will get on page one. MOST local businessess dont have high competition keywords or over 500 exact searches monthly unless its a large city. Honestly if your interested, just spend the 10 bucks or whatever and try it yourself, thats what i did. hope that helps
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    • Profile picture of the author shockwave
      Originally Posted by jstarx View Post

      Yes its possible, Ive done it , and I dont think Im the expert your looking for here. But get one of these WSO's, read the reviews, and try it yourself. I've done it a few times, and all my videos got on page one. Dont feel like going into examples or looking up the "exact search count" on the keywords, but they were the main keyword for my clients. But bottom line is , if your client is a dentist in cincinatti ohio, and you make a video titled , "dentist cincinatti ohio" and do the steps in the WSO, it will get on page one. MOST local businessess dont have high competition keywords or over 500 exact searches monthly unless its a large city. Honestly if your interested, just spend the 10 bucks or whatever and try it yourself, thats what i did. hope that helps
      Hi Jstarx - thanks for your response. I'm not saying that it's impossible to rank videos on the 1st page - as I mentioned, I have several videos setting on the 1st page. In fact, I have a few of my own examples where there are literally 6 videos and 1 or 2 websites ALL ON THE FRONT PAGE - now that's DOMINATION!

      ......but the reality is, that I could have never done that with some serious keywords that have heavy traffic.

      What I'm challenging the "gurus" to is to show one or a few examples of complete domination (like 5-6 or even more) positions on the 1st page for a SIGNIFICANT traffic, exact match, keyword phrase. I seriously doubt, we will find any of these guys taking my challenge - been pretty quiet here so far hasn't it? I thinks it's because they KNOW they are selling theories rather than solid, time-tested techniques. This is the same thing that happens in the SEO world all the time.

      My point is this: I think as time goes on, clients are going to get a bit more educated on the value of traffic keywords vs. non-traffic keywords and what that really means in terms of getting new business. What you don't want to do is find yourself in a position of having to explain yourself to your client when somebody who's smarter than you, that does what you do, calls you out on it. Luckily for me, this has not happend to me...but it is how I get new clients!

      If you're a noob, here's my advice:

      Rule #1: Don't believe everything you read. I don't care if somebody says they know what the hell they are talking about, and show some pretty screenshots about how good they did and how much money they made - challenge that theory. Test it yourself.

      Rule #2: If in doubt, remember rule #1

      - end rant.
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      • Profile picture of the author J R Salem
        Originally Posted by shockwave View Post

        Hi Jstarx - thanks for your response. I'm not saying that it's impossible to rank videos on the 1st page - as I mentioned, I have several videos setting on the 1st page. In fact, I have a few of my own examples where there are literally 6 videos and 1 or 2 websites ALL ON THE FRONT PAGE - now that's DOMINATION!

        ......but the reality is, that I could have never done that with some serious keywords that have heavy traffic.

        What I'm challenging the "gurus" to is to show one or a few examples of complete domination (like 5-6 or even more) positions on the 1st page for a SIGNIFICANT traffic, exact match, keyword phrase. I seriously doubt, we will find any of these guys taking my challenge - been pretty quiet here so far hasn't it? I thinks it's because they KNOW they are selling theories rather than solid, time-tested techniques. This is the same thing that happens in the SEO world all the time.

        My point is this: I think as time goes on, clients are going to get a bit more educated on the value of traffic keywords vs. non-traffic keywords and what that really means in terms of getting new business. What you don't want to do is find yourself in a position of having to explain yourself to your client when somebody who's smarter than you, that does what you do, calls you out on it. Luckily for me, this has not happend to me...but it is how I get new clients!

        If you're a noob, here's my advice:

        Rule #1: Don't believe everything you read. I don't care if somebody says they know what the hell they are talking about, and show some pretty screenshots about how good they did and how much money they made - challenge that theory. Test it yourself.

        Rule #2: If in doubt, remember rule #1

        - end rant.
        I know which wso you are referring to. Its ok to have doubts, but if the strategy works for him, then thats all well and fine.

        You could try and make it work the way you're asking, and then have a wso in the making!
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      • Profile picture of the author SirThomas
        edited out
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        • Profile picture of the author rotten72
          Have you received any hate PM's yet? I get some of those But I don't give a flying FURK cause I'm rotten!

          You are spot on about a lot of BS! The most important thing is it to get business for the client. This means you need to pick keywords that people are actually searching for. As far as finding terms with over 500 exact match searches, you might not be able to find too many unless you are using a major US city.

          Nice job Shockwave. Always remember to put the client first.
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          • Profile picture of the author shockwave
            Originally Posted by rotten72 View Post

            Have you received any hate PM's yet? I get some of those But I don't give a flying FURK cause I'm rotten!

            You are spot on about a lot of BS! The most important thing is it to get business for the client. This means you need to pick keywords that people are actually searching for. As far as finding terms with over 500 exact match searches, you might not be able to find too many unless you are using a major US city.

            Nice job Shockwave. Always remember to put the client first.
            Thanks man. No, no hate PM's yet, and if they come, I'm ready. The bottom line is you can't get around this reality.

            I will absolutely pay $ for good quality info, but when they rehash, add a bunch of fluff - that's the part that burns me.
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    • Profile picture of the author rotten72
      Originally Posted by jstarx View Post

      Yes its possible, Ive done it , and I dont think Im the expert your looking for here. But get one of these WSO's, read the reviews, and try it yourself. I've done it a few times, and all my videos got on page one. Dont feel like going into examples or looking up the "exact search count" on the keywords, but they were the main keyword for my clients. But bottom line is , if your client is a dentist in cincinatti ohio, and you make a video titled , "dentist cincinatti ohio" and do the steps in the WSO, it will get on page one. MOST local businessess dont have high competition keywords or over 500 exact searches monthly unless its a large city. Honestly if your interested, just spend the 10 bucks or whatever and try it yourself, thats what i did. hope that helps
      This is the problem! You are willing to do shiit work for a client, take their money and then they get nothing in return. You NEED to understand what they are paying you for. That is to make them money! First page rankings for bunk keyword phrases are worthless.

      After you have a client and you are making them money, you can, and I do go after some of those keywords. But you still need to do your market research first.

      Here is real market research from one of the suggestions from Google. I ran an adwords campaign for a month. My ad was shown 50% of the time and I ONLY got 1 impression. This means there were only 2 searches all month.



      Would you pay what you charge for your services if you were the client?
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      • Profile picture of the author shockwave
        Originally Posted by rotten72 View Post

        This is the problem! You are willing to do shiit work for a client, take their money and then they get nothing in return. You NEED to understand what they are paying you for. That is to make them money! First page rankings for bunk keyword phrases are worthless.
        I'm gonna have to back Rotten up on this one - it is a more articulate way of saying what I've been trying to get to all along. - Atta boy Rotten!

        So with that said....
        Hear Ye! Hear Ye! Let this proclamation be heard loud and clear: From this day forward, if you are selling a WSO that is full of B.S. and hype - I will call you out on it in front of everybody on this forum.

        You will no longer be allowed to milk the hard earned greenbacks of the noobs in this forum who know no better.

        Whether it be only myself or many of my fellow patriots, we will not allow you to harness us with your yoke of mental oppression!
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        • Profile picture of the author jrod014
          Originally Posted by shockwave View Post

          I'm gonna have to back Rotten up on this one - it is a more articulate way of saying what I've been trying to get to all along. - Atta boy Rotten!

          So with that said....
          Hear Ye! Hear Ye! Let this proclamation be heard loud and clear: From this day forward, if you are selling a WSO that is full of B.S. and hype - I will call you out on it in front of everybody on this forum.

          You will no longer be allowed to milk the hard earned greenbacks of the noobs in this forum who know no better.

          Whether it be only myself or many of my fellow patriots, we will not allow you to harness us with your yoke of mental oppression!

          NICE! keeping the gurus honest.

          Quick tip for local keyword ideas.

          One thing I like to do is visit compete.com and enter some competitor websites to get an idea of what keywords the competition is receiving traffic from.

          I don't have a pro account but the free version just displays the first few keywords and if you have a local client, its more than enough.

          The google keyword tool is good to get ideas but I've found that data to be unreliable.
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        • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
          Hey! I eagerly anticipate the following....



          Before you start calling people out you should
          take a look at the forum rules, you'll fair much
          better around here. This isn't a free speech
          forum. Just a suggestion!

          Originally Posted by shockwave View Post

          I'm gonna have to back Rotten up on this one - it is a more articulate way of saying what I've been trying to get to all along. - Atta boy Rotten!

          So with that said....
          Hear Ye! Hear Ye! Let this proclamation be heard loud and clear: From this day forward, if you are selling a WSO that is full of B.S. and hype - I will call you out on it in front of everybody on this forum.

          You will no longer be allowed to milk the hard earned greenbacks of the noobs in this forum who know no better.

          Whether it be only myself or many of my fellow patriots, we will not allow you to harness us with your yoke of mental oppression!
          Signature
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          • Profile picture of the author shockwave
            Originally Posted by Rus Sells View Post

            Hey! I eagerly anticipate the following....



            Before you start calling people out you should
            take a look at the forum rules, you'll fair much
            better around here. This isn't a free speech
            forum. Just a suggestion!
            Hey Rus! lol! that's a sweet pic. Yeah, after reading many WSO's with so many "you're so great" and "oh this is pure gold" type of comments I figured either:

            a) either they are scared to call someone out.
            b) it's simply not allowed in the forum.

            I mean after all, they can't all be pure gold. Just for clarification, I'm not out to bash someone for honest mistakes or for putting out new theories. But if they are not tested and of real value, then selling them as "the path to gold" is B.S. - and for that, I will take my chances.
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            • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
              Shockwave,

              I'm just curious about something.

              Your very first thread located here freely admits of your own omission that your a noob, then again here you ask a relatively silly question about pinging.

              So how is it that all of the sudden your the expert who's going to start calling out others on the forum for supposedly bilking people for money.

              To me, you have come here to try and position yourself as an expert without substantial contribution to the forums first. Setting yourself against others here with an established reputation is not an ideal way to accomplish this.


              Originally Posted by shockwave View Post

              Hey Rus! lol! that's a sweet pic. Yeah, after reading many WSO's with so many "you're so great" and "oh this is pure gold" type of comments I figured either:

              a) either they are scared to call someone out.
              b) it's simply not allowed in the forum.

              I mean after all, they can't all be pure gold. Just for clarification, I'm not out to bash someone for honest mistakes or for putting out new theories. But if they are not tested and of real value, then selling them as "the path to gold" is B.S. - and for that, I will take my chances.
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              • Profile picture of the author shockwave
                Originally Posted by Rus Sells View Post

                Shockwave,

                I'm just curious about something.

                Your very first thread located here freely admits of your own omission that your a noob, then again here you ask a relatively silly question about pinging.

                So how is it that all of the sudden your the expert who's going to start calling out others on the forum for supposedly bilking people for money.

                To me, you have come here to try and position yourself as an expert without substantial contribution to the forums first. Setting yourself against others here with an established reputation is not an ideal way to accomplish this.
                Rus,

                Yep, I'm busted....I'm a noob and I know nothing about pinging. Noob to posting this forum, and silly questions about pinging.

                Did you find any threads where I claim to be an expert? Do you have any clue what I do or do not know? How my track record or experience in SEO other than any question I've asked in this forum?

                I get where your coming from though man. Who is this new guy who hasn't shown anyone he really knows what the hell he's talking about? Who does he think he is "calling someone out"?

                Well, I only call B.S. when I see it. Otherwise, I sit back, shut up and take notes. You probably won't hear me or see me unless something really needs to be addressed.
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                • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
                  While you may not have come right out and said your an expert, you are trying to position yourself as one by saying you will call people out for BS.

                  Calling people out is kind of what experts do sometimes.



                  Originally Posted by shockwave View Post

                  Rus,

                  Yep, I'm busted....I'm a noob and I know nothing about pinging. Noob to posting this forum, and silly questions about pinging.

                  Did you find any threads where I claim to be an expert? Do you have any clue what I do or do not know? How my track record or experience in SEO other than any question I've asked in this forum?

                  I get where your coming from though man. Who is this new guy who hasn't shown anyone he really knows what the hell he's talking about? Who does he think he is "calling someone out"?

                  Well, I only call B.S. when I see it. Otherwise, I sit back, shut up and take notes. You probably won't hear me or see me unless something really needs to be addressed.
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                  • Profile picture of the author shockwave
                    Originally Posted by Rus Sells View Post

                    While you may not have come right out and said your an expert, you are trying to position yourself as one by saying you will call people out for BS.

                    Calling people out is kind of what experts do sometimes.
                    Sometimes. And other times, it is the regular guy who keeps the experts honest. Is it not?
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                    • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
                      I know you'll never admit I'm correct cause god forbid you loose a little face.

                      Your just another member I can put on my ignore list until I see some real contribution to the forums.

                      Originally Posted by shockwave View Post

                      Sometimes. And other times, it is the regular guy who keeps the experts honest. Is it not?
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          • Profile picture of the author krzysiek
            Originally Posted by Rus Sells View Post

            Hey! I eagerly anticipate the following....



            Before you start calling people out you should
            take a look at the forum rules, you'll fair much
            better around here. This isn't a free speech
            forum. Just a suggestion!
            Hi Russ,

            No disrespect intended here but was that "This isn't a free speech forum" line a joke? I am not implying you have made such a rule, but if INDEED that is the case then wow - that would be such BS. The way I interpret that line (if it is actually enforced, even mildly, as a rule) is that even if a WSO is sh*t, you cannot call it out to be so, as you're breaking the rules? That is complete crap. If a WSO is not worth it's weight, it should be called out.

            I sincerely hope such a 'rule' is not actually in force in this forum, because if it is, then it has not severely hindered the power that "testimonials" have over me on this forum.
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            • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
              Kryzsiek,

              This is a privately owned web site and so the owner has full right to censor whatever speech he so chooses. I'd exercise the same rights on my own sites. Wouldn't you?

              Many are of the misconception that because this is a forum it means free speech.

              In regards to the WSO section any one has a right to post a negative or positive review about a product if they have made a purchase.

              Originally Posted by krzysiek View Post

              Hi Russ,

              No disrespect intended here but was that "This isn't a free speech forum" line a joke? I am not implying you have made such a rule, but if INDEED that is the case then wow - that would be such BS. The way I interpret that line (if it is actually enforced, even mildly, as a rule) is that even if a WSO is sh*t, you cannot call it out to be so, as you're breaking the rules? That is complete crap. If a WSO is not worth it's weight, it should be called out.

              I sincerely hope such a 'rule' is not actually in force in this forum, because if it is, then it has not severely hindered the power that "testimonials" have over me on this forum.
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        • Profile picture of the author Harbourmaster
          Originally Posted by shockwave View Post

          So with that said....
          Hear Ye! Hear Ye! Let this proclamation be heard loud and clear: From this day forward, if you are selling a WSO that is full of B.S. and hype - I will call you out on it in front of everybody on this forum.
          It seems to me that your time here (short as it is) might be better spent by reading and asking intelligent questions, rather than ranting and making silly proclamations that will only serve to get you into trouble...

          Aloha, Ken
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          • Profile picture of the author shockwave
            Originally Posted by Harbourmaster View Post

            It seems to me that your time here (short as it is) might be better spent by reading and asking intelligent questions, rather than ranting and making silly proclamations that will only serve to get you into trouble...

            Aloha, Ken
            Hi Harbourmaster: I'll let the mods determine my fate. And I will kindly agree to disagree with you on this point.
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      • Profile picture of the author krzysiek
        Hi Rotten,

        Ad-words noob here! I like how you have tested the search term to actually determine THE AMOUNT of traffic coming in. Great way to test it than just relying on Google.

        So, I suppose what you have done is put a low bid amount, to get your ad showing (but not being clicked, I assume) to just get a view of the traffic.

        But, given that it is showing in position #11, doesn't this mean that it is positioned so low that it wouldn't even be showing for most searches? Is there room for up to >= 11 positions for ads? I am going to have to try this out, though!

        Originally Posted by rotten72 View Post

        This is the problem! You are willing to do shiit work for a client, take their money and then they get nothing in return. You NEED to understand what they are paying you for. That is to make them money! First page rankings for bunk keyword phrases are worthless.

        After you have a client and you are making them money, you can, and I do go after some of those keywords. But you still need to do your market research first.

        Here is real market research from one of the suggestions from Google. I ran an adwords campaign for a month. My ad was shown 50% of the time and I ONLY got 1 impression. This means there were only 2 searches all month.



        Would you pay what you charge for your services if you were the client?
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  • Profile picture of the author krzysiek
    Hi Shockwave,

    I didn't read the whole thread here but I do know a little about what you're talking about. I am referring to the part where some people say "don't forget there are other keywords out there that show 0 traffic in Google Keyword Tool".

    That is correct, there are some keywords out there that will generate traffic, and show up as "0" on Google's tool. However, one needs to decide if what they are doing (ie - their form of advertising, such as video, website, etc) will give the business owner / client extra business by targeting that specific keyword.

    What I mean is, if I target a keyword that shows up as "0" on Google but is getting about 10 searches a month - if I rank a nice looking & converting website on Google at spot #1 or #2 (should be easy due to the extra low comp.) then that might result in an extra client or two for the dentist (or other high paying profession) per month. That's if the site is nice and does its job to convert the visitors into callers.

    On the other hand, with a video: I doubt 10 visitors per month is anything worth going after, because there is a limited amount of text information you can put across to the people viewing the video to "sell" them. I think videos are more suited to the "higher" searched terms.

    But to be honest, some business owners would probably just be happy to "see" "their" video on the top of Google for "some" keyword and maybe this is the idea the fellow behind the WSO you are talking about is doing. But for me, I wouldn't do it unless I could somehow calculate some measurable effects on performance of the campaign - as in the end, we want MORE callers, not just viewers.

    That being said: I have not looked into the conversion rates of websites vs. videos. If videos for some reason have a MUCH higher natural conversion rate (which to me they don't, I usually like to see a website etc) then it might be worth it to target these ultra low comp. keywords.

    Oh by the way: Good job for standing up. I don't do it often on here, but a lot of Warriors kiss other Warriors' asses when their WSO's are not even that great. I wish it was a more 'balanced' forum like some others that I am a part of, where if the product "sucks" it is made clear in the thread. I have bought a lot of WSO's based on comments in the thread and then later thought that it wasn't really 'all' that.
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    • Profile picture of the author shockwave
      Hi krzysiek,

      Thanks for your input.
      some business owners would probably just be happy to "see" "their" video on the top of Google for "some" keyword
      I agree with that one most definately. I've showed this to a client and they were crazy excited - but then I had to make sure I established realistic expectations about what that REALLY meant.

      I think that is another of our world. We are "consultants" because we not only can read/understand the data, but we can interpret it in a meaningful way to the client.
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  • Profile picture of the author k60mall
    Hey Shockwave

    I also don't think you can totally dominate the first page for highly competitive key phrases but you can rank videos which is one of the ways to get a listing.

    I sold a wso early this year with Holly Cotter and what we were teaching was to rank videos for local terms which do have good search volumes. What you must remember is that a Plumber couldn't handle the business if they got hundred of leads per month, what that type of business is after is maybe 20 to 30 per month to make a good living.

    Yes, online product type of companies do want a large search volume to generate enough sales from most of the tyre kickers you get who are looking for say acne cream.

    Just an example of one listing is a video for psoriasis treatment i got for a client to prove videos do rank well and it can be for competitive key phrases with hight search volume.

    Google
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    • Profile picture of the author rotten72
      Originally Posted by k60mall View Post

      Hey Shockwave

      I sold a wso early this year with Holly Cotter and what we were teaching was to rank videos for local terms which do have good search volumes. What you must remember is that a Plumber couldn't handle the business if they got hundred of leads per month, what that type of business is after is maybe 20 to 30 per month to make a good living.

      Google
      You, as a consultant, need to remember that hundreds of searches for a specific term does not mean hundreds of customers. And when we are dealing with local businesses, in most cases, we are only talking hundreds of searches a month.The top 2 spots on Google get more than 50% of all the clicks. And if you get a 5% conversion rate you are Furking god!
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    • Profile picture of the author philboy uk
      Originally Posted by k60mall View Post

      Hey Shockwave

      I also don't think you can totally dominate the first page for highly competitive key phrases but you can rank videos which is one of the ways to get a listing.

      I sold a wso early this year with Holly Cotter and what we were teaching was to rank videos for local terms which do have good search volumes. What you must remember is that a Plumber couldn't handle the business if they got hundred of leads per month, what that type of business is after is maybe 20 to 30 per month to make a good living.

      Yes, online product type of companies do want a large search volume to generate enough sales from most of the tyre kickers you get who are looking for say acne cream.

      Just an example of one listing is a video for psoriasis treatment i got for a client to prove videos do rank well and it can be for competitive key phrases with hight search volume.

      Google

      Hi Keith

      Have you found some of your videos dropped in rankings over the past few months ?

      ta
      Phil
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  • Profile picture of the author shockwave
    k60mall - Thanks and I salute you! Now THAT is what I'm talking about. No fluff, high traffic, exact match! (not even a geo-modifer). That most certainly took some effort, but you got the job done.

    This is the kind of stuff I'm talking about. REAL RESULTS for your client.

    I agree that 20-30 per month is good for someone like a plumber. But what I'm calling out is the B.S. "look at how easy I dominate this page" stuff, when the kw phrase literally has NONE or even very little competition.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
    This thread is....

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    • Profile picture of the author jrod014
      Originally Posted by Rus Sells View Post

      This thread is....

      LOL! Awesome!
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    • Profile picture of the author White80
      You can get quite a bit of stuff for free online, I myself am on with that stuff for the time being. That is the beauty of content marketing!
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  • Profile picture of the author traficmaster
    you guys never disappoint me
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