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Unread 8th Mar 2012, 01:23 AM   #1001
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Re: Make $5000 per month and be a hero.
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Originally Posted by J smith View Post

Robert: you should probably talk to that lady owner again (but perhaps after you get some toher place to sign up) and explain to her that not ony is putting stuff in people's mailboxes a federal crime, but "doing it yourself" isn't free.
1,000 flyers is going to cost her $50-100 in paper alone, another 50 to 100 in ink (her printer probably isn't going to work any better after pirnting 1k flyers either) Then she has to get in her car and spend gas money and most important her time, to do what? Save? Save what?

Between ink, paper and gas costs she's already at $200 or more. How many flyers can she place in one minute? 2? 3? Let's say it's 2 flyers per minute, that's 500 minutes or over 8 hours. So not only is she spending over $200 but she also has to spend 8 hours of her time doing this.

And for what? So she can reach one tenth of the people your ad would? So, 8 hours of her time (and a lot of head ache) gets her 1,000 flyers or she can pay you an extra $400 and spend her day doing something more fun than driving around sticking flyers into mailboxes, and reach 10 times more people.

I just don't see how she can say no to that. I mean, if she agrees that doing 1k flyers is worth it, then you should have no problems closing her. Now if she says advertising doesn't work at all, that'd be different.

A question for Bob Ross:
"That's well over $10,000 to send out a mailing of 10,000 pieces. You can explain to them that by grouping local businesses together, using your special print source, and taking advantage of certain post office incentives... you can bring the cost down to around a thousand dollars each space. "

If you place 16 ads on a card, then wouldn't "around a thousand dollars each space" result in around 16,000 which is more than the original 10,000 which is the starting point in the paragraph I've quoted?

It's a nice idea to quote a higher price while you build up value, as that helps convince them that getting it at lower price is even more worth it. But I am curious as to what prices I should quote to prospects.

I was planning to go with a $500 per spot, $400 if you buy it now. But $500 is my target price, so if I wanted to quote a higher price before dropping it down, what price should I quote?
Granted I guess I can go with the whole: direct mail would cost you a buck each, doing this size postcard yourself would be at least 50 cents. Now I am offering it at 7 cents each, but right now, because I really want to get it out there I am offering it at just $500! And if you buy right now you get an amazing 20% discount on top of that!

Anyway, got a sample postcard design made, just need to get it printed up and then I am off cold walking

PS: Bob, going to buy your wso tomorrow. This is an awesome thread, thanks a lot for starting it!
Awesome reply

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Unread 8th Mar 2012, 01:59 AM   #1002
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Originally Posted by TWalker View Post

No Bob has suggested it is almost exclusively checks made out to your business name. Others suggest using a credit card scanner like squareup.com.
That's awesome!

Even pulling this gadget out in a meeting will give you so much cred.

Now I just need an Ipad

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Unread 8th Mar 2012, 02:41 AM   #1003
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Thanks bob ross
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Unread 8th Mar 2012, 03:17 AM   #1004
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I need to research more on my approach. These looks interesting. Thanks!
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Unread 8th Mar 2012, 07:34 AM   #1005
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A question for those who've got their postcards made/designed, as well as those who posted theirs in this thread. Has anyone actually been able to fit 8 full, equal sized ads + branding on their card?

The card TWalker posted above for instance has 8 ads + branding, but the 2 ads on the bottom right are clearly half sized. Also the ads vary in size to a decent degree, so much so that the business of the top right might feel they got screwed compared to bottom center.

The "Titan Value" postcard that was posted by someone earlier in this thread also has a similar design, as does the design I got from my graphic designer.

So, has anyone been able to fit all 8 ads + branding? And if so, could you post your card (or pm it to me)
And also, do you guys put your branding on both sides of the card, or just one side?
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Unread 8th Mar 2012, 07:52 AM   #1006
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What you do is charge different amounts for different sized ads.

Having a variety of price points allows those concerned about price to find a smaller, less expensive way to advertise on it, and it looks more aesthetically pleasing to the eye to have different sized ads laid out like BobRoss and Gregg have done.

You set the pricing and you can sell up to a more noticeable sized ad or offer someone a great "deal" for a smaller spot. Just be creative.
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Unread 8th Mar 2012, 09:42 AM   #1007
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Originally Posted by J smith View Post

A question for those who've got their postcards made/designed, as well as those who posted theirs in this thread. Has anyone actually been able to fit 8 full, equal sized ads + branding on their card?

The card TWalker posted above for instance has 8 ads + branding, but the 2 ads on the bottom right are clearly half sized. Also the ads vary in size to a decent degree, so much so that the business of the top right might feel they got screwed compared to bottom center.

The "Titan Value" postcard that was posted by someone earlier in this thread also has a similar design, as does the design I got from my graphic designer.

So, has anyone been able to fit all 8 ads + branding? And if so, could you post your card (or pm it to me)
And also, do you guys put your branding on both sides of the card, or just one side?
It shows you right in the wso how to do it.

As far as different size ads like umm just charge different prices. Then noone will be mad. Also says this is the wso I believe.
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Unread 8th Mar 2012, 09:50 AM   #1008
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Wow, amazing man..could you give me some picture as a proof?

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Unread 8th Mar 2012, 10:06 AM   #1009
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Originally Posted by thedog View Post

That's awesome!

Even pulling this gadget out in a meeting will give you so much cred.

Now I just need an Ipad

Not me, I use a Droid X (from ebay) with a 4.3" screen and pay $29.95 month for my smartphone cell service on PagePlus. I pay 1/3 of most peoples smartphone bills and I can take credit cards.
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Unread 8th Mar 2012, 02:10 PM   #1010
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Can someone help me craft a smooth answer to this objection. I know the answer but my explanation gets wordy, Need a short and effective way to answer-

If I start offering coupons won't I just train customers to expect a deal in order to come in?
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Unread 8th Mar 2012, 02:58 PM   #1011
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Originally Posted by Eddie Spangler View Post

Can someone help me craft a smooth answer to this objection. I know the answer but my explanation gets wordy, Need a short and effective way to answer-

If I start offering coupons won't I just train customers to expect a deal in order to come in?
your question is your answer...

coupon is a that thing that gets people come back for more.... people like getting things cheaper, it makes them happy...
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Unread 8th Mar 2012, 03:32 PM   #1012
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Originally Posted by believemarketing View Post

your question is your answer...

coupon is a that thing that gets people come back for more.... people like getting things cheaper, it makes them happy...
Dan Kennedy always talks about the danger of lowering prices too much.

IE We used to go to this Japanese restaurant every so often and pay full price, about 10-11$ per person.
Then they came out with 2 for 1 dinners every tuesday. So for 3 months we went there every week and dined in for 10.84$ TOTAL + tip, less than what it would cost to go to Subway.

Since they went back to the normal price, we never went back. We got into the "bad" habit (for them) of thinking their dinner is worth 2 for 1. When they canceled it, it's a sudden price increase of 100% for us and all of a sudden, you feel bad about it.

That's the objection people have about coupons. They feel that if they discount too much and too often, then people will just hold out and develop the habit of only coming in when there's a huge sale. Coupons work well but they have to be used wisely.
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Unread 8th Mar 2012, 03:33 PM   #1013
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Assuming a restaurant client

"You mean give them an incentive to come in twice a month instead of once a month ... that would be horrible"

Gotta be smiling and say the last part with a tinge of sarcasm

Originally Posted by Eddie Spangler View Post

Can someone help me craft a smooth answer to this objection. I know the answer but my explanation gets wordy, Need a short and effective way to answer-

If I start offering coupons won't I just train customers to expect a deal in order to come in?
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Unread 8th Mar 2012, 03:42 PM   #1014
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Originally Posted by Eddie Spangler View Post

Can someone help me craft a smooth answer to this objection. I know the answer but my explanation gets wordy, Need a short and effective way to answer-

If I start offering coupons won't I just train customers to expect a deal in order to come in?
Eddie,

Let your prospect know that what you are offering is to get new customers in the door.

That's your business.

Let him know that's it's his business to give them a great experience so they naturally want to come back...that's his job.

Best,
Ewen
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Unread 9th Mar 2012, 12:38 PM   #1015
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Originally Posted by Robert Domino View Post

Update:

But here's the kicker. My wife decided to have date night there anyway since we're actual customers there once in a while. Later during the dinner, we heard the waitress talk with the lady owner and say something like $600 is INSANE but it's a good idea so they should "print on bright paper and do like my uncle and drive around and put it in people's mailboxes".

I'm actually not upset at all. I know they're completely oblivious to the real costs of advertising. I can imagine this lady driving to 1,000 homes to drop off sheets of paper and then figuring out that even "free" has a cost in time, gaz, printing paper etc. It will probably bring them "some" sales, on a small scale, but nowhere near what 10,000 of these giant postcards could.
Seems like really "Small Thinkers." If they were dumb enough to go around stufing in mailboxes, they will get a rude surprise when the postmaster calls and asks them to pay for all the postage due. It's illegal to stuff in mailboxes.
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Unread 9th Mar 2012, 12:45 PM   #1016
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Originally Posted by Eddie Spangler View Post

Can someone help me craft a smooth answer to this objection. I know the answer but my explanation gets wordy, Need a short and effective way to answer-

If I start offering coupons won't I just train customers to expect a deal in order to come in?
Since we are in a depression, many customers are looking for an excuse to go out. It's not that they don't want to go out, they just feel like they have to watch their money more closely. They're still spending money, but at less places. Wouldn't you rather have them at your restaurant?

Last edited on 9th Mar 2012 at 12:45 PM. Reason: typo
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Unread 9th Mar 2012, 01:29 PM   #1017
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#1 - Has anyone done a .psd of the BobRoss layout front and back? If so, please contact me as I would like to purchase the editable file from you. Please email me turbowagon at yahoo dot com

#2 - Has anyone found an alternative to MelissaData for the initial carrier route demographics lookup? They dropped the "Average Household Income" and "Average Home Value" from the summary page making the tool far less useful. Thanks.
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Unread 9th Mar 2012, 01:55 PM   #1018
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Interesting post! It may work but I find it hard to believe that it will work for the clients, lets face it most people will simply view it as junk mail and throw it in the cash. Any business that has marketing capabilities will probably not purchase this service.
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Unread 9th Mar 2012, 04:45 PM   #1019
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What exactly is a "business that has marketing capabilities" and why wouldn't they purchase it?
$500 for a spot (or w/e people charge) to send it to 10k is 5 cents per postcard. You can't even ship them for that price if you do it yourself. Then there is a benefit of having multiple types of ads compared to just your ad (but much bigger) However sicne to do it yourself it'd cost 10 times as much, and results are very unlikely to be 10 times better, it actually makes sense to go with this. (after all I get verizon and comcast ads in Valpak)

And why wouldn't it work for a cleint? Depending on what business it is, they might only need 2-50 clients to get their money's worth (not even including life time values of clients, just from the initial transaction) Is it that hard to believe that a restaurant advertising some nice special deal will get 50 people out of 10k it was sent to? That's only 0.5% response rate, which is about average for a postcard.
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Unread 9th Mar 2012, 06:53 PM   #1020
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Originally Posted by J smith View Post


And why wouldn't it work for a cleint? Depending on what business it is, they might only need 2-50 clients to get their money's worth (not even including life time values of clients, just from the initial transaction) Is it that hard to believe that a restaurant advertising some nice special deal will get 50 people out of 10k it was sent to? That's only 0.5% response rate, which is about average for a postcard.
I whole heartedly agree. However, it seems like a lot of these small time owners "don't get it". Because they suck at marketing, their lifetime customer value might be $50 instead of $500 so they can't comprehend the value.

Even more so, they most likely think in terms of immediate sales, aka "I'll probably get 25 people paying 10$ and I'll lose money".. They don't have a referral system, they don't have a bounce-back offer, they don't have any systematic system to attract and retain customers.

I can see teaching them and making them see the light, but that's another can of worms. For this model to work without pulling your hair out, you seem to have to pluck the low hanging fruits.
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Unread 9th Mar 2012, 07:24 PM   #1021
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Originally Posted by Robert Domino View Post

I whole heartedly agree. However, it seems like a lot of these small time owners "don't get it". Because they suck at marketing, their lifetime customer value might be $50 instead of $500 so they can't comprehend the value.

Even more so, they most likely think in terms of immediate sales, aka "I'll probably get 25 people paying 10$ and I'll lose money".. They don't have a referral system, they don't have a bounce-back offer, they don't have any systematic system to attract and retain customers.

I can see teaching them and making them see the light, but that's another can of worms. For this model to work without pulling your hair out, you seem to have to pluck the low hanging fruits.
You seem to be off to a rough start, can you tell me What mediums do the small businesses in your area spend advertising on?
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Unread 9th Mar 2012, 09:02 PM   #1022
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Originally Posted by Eddie Spangler View Post

You seem to be off to a rough start, can you tell me What mediums do the small businesses in your area spend advertising on?
I don't want to derail the thread, so I won't get off topic too much after this.

To answer your question, now that I've done more research.. the small businesses in this zip code (in a 15 miles radius from where I live) don't appear to spend on anything except maybe the Yellow Pages, a few billboards, some yard signs. Some of them have Facebook pages, which aren't used to their maximum potential (they aren't tied in to in-store offers, people aren't encouraged to 'like' it, the offers posted are lame and won't get you off your butt to go visit them etc).

They can definitively use many services I have the expertise to provide. I'm just going to have to find the best way to put my foot in the door. I have zero salesmanship experience.

Bigger town has hundreds of small businesses and a lot of them already do heavy advertising (including radio, newspaper), so perhaps they would be a lot more receptive.
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Unread 9th Mar 2012, 11:12 PM   #1023
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Originally Posted by Robert Domino View Post

Dan Kennedy always talks about the danger of lowering prices too much.

IE We used to go to this Japanese restaurant every so often and pay full price, about 10-11$ per person.
Then they came out with 2 for 1 dinners every tuesday. So for 3 months we went there every week and dined in for 10.84$ TOTAL + tip, less than what it would cost to go to Subway.

Since they went back to the normal price, we never went back. We got into the "bad" habit (for them) of thinking their dinner is worth 2 for 1. When they canceled it, it's a sudden price increase of 100% for us and all of a sudden, you feel bad about it.

That's the objection people have about coupons. They feel that if they discount too much and too often, then people will just hold out and develop the habit of only coming in when there's a huge sale. Coupons work well but they have to be used wisely.
Great Point!

In the ItsBobRoss WSO, he discussed how one client used the *competetive advantages* and every day price displayed AS a coupon... while the New Customers came streaming in payin the 'every day low price' the business owner was laughing all the way to the bank ...

So it can happen...

I signed a Dog Groomer in town today who's grooming services includes Teeth Brushing... for $35 every day 6 days a week.

My Vet quoted me $800+ to clean my dog's teeth... and I have a Min-Pin! (22Lb Miniature Doberman Pincher)

Certainly they are not the *same* level of Teeth cleaning, but who do you think is going to be brushing my dogs teeth ($800 Vet Price) in just a couple weeks, and clipping his toenails ($19 Vet Price) with a bath for under $25???

I predict a second location in this groomer's future!!!

So - it's going through the numbers and getting the right fit.

My last call of the day - around 4:00pm today I walked into a place called Pro-Cut - hair stying... Asked about the owner, discovered the lone employee there was the store manager... started up my pitch using a direct mail piece that came to MY business (shortly after I started this campain - eerriieee...) and it was talking about Direct Mail for MY business... pointed out the $0.30 / $0.58 / $0.62 PER CARD depending on personalization and she was *jumping out of her skin* excited saying we NEED this...

I said no you don't need this - cause you will make a decision in 20 seconds or less about if you need this offer or not, and then it's in the trash or lost in a pile of paper (as I am pulling out my Giant PostCard)...

I then explained it's $0.88 to mail, $0.50 to print... and $13,000 for 10,000 copies delivered to their homes...

But... THIS is EXACTLY what you need! It will not be in the trash, it's bigger than anything in your mail box, and with the new Postal Service Delivery option I can deliver it to any house for under $0.08 per house!

Thought she was gonna *faint* on me!

I might just get a call from the owner of these four stores - There was only ONE person in there other than the Mgr, and that person was headed out the door...

The opportunities are out there...

Now 5 days of effort, 2 deals closed, several working... Next week is going to *explode*... cause I have sown the seeds this week while training my pitch.

I am using ItsBobRoss's pricing for first presentation, then delivering a tiered price list determined by 'square inch coverage' of $595 for the 11.25 size and above, $495 for 11.00 in or less, and $295 for the smallest space.

I changed my pricing after realizing I was giving my prospects No Options... just one price of $595 (Doh!) Closed the Groomer after calling and letting her know about the price change... She said come by and get the $$$, I am ready to reserve a space!

Till you get INTO your market, you can only guess what they need... but by working in the market you will discover what will work...

I'll see you OUT There tomorrow for sure!

To YOUR Success!

Patrick

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Unread 10th Mar 2012, 07:58 AM   #1024
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We filled our first edition in 3 1/2 weeks doing it part-time whenever we got around to it.

This is a viable business that can be done anywhere by anyone. But- if you don't think it can be done, it's not for you. Move on to something else you can believe in.

We have a Territory Rep who sold 7 ads in his first week...would have been more but his internet was down and he couldn't email anyone.

We have another Rep who made his first cold-call to a company who advertises in another program, and signed them up on the spot over the phone.

There is a TON of opportunity for this out there-
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Unread 10th Mar 2012, 11:22 PM   #1025
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Originally Posted by Robert Domino View Post

Update:

lol. Went back to the second place tonight as scheduled. The lady seemed mildly interested but almost had a stroke when I pitched the price down from 1$ for direct mail to 50 cents if you did it all yourself to 8 cents standard rate to 6 cents per card if you acted now.

Then the money objections started. "The economy is bad, we're not getting a lot of business", "$600 is almost a day's worth", "We don't advertise", "I can't discount any more".

Even though I believe I handled some of these objections pretty well, ie "that's exactly how you spark business, as these postcards have been very successful for restaurants". "you don't actually need to discount more since you're already offering specials. All you need to do is advertise the offers that are currently working well for you", it ended up with the good old "I'll have to think about it".

I don't want to be sarcastic but if they insist on not advertising, it's no wonder they aren't doing well. A better salesman might have closed them, since they expressly said that it was a good idea.

But here's the kicker. My wife decided to have date night there anyway since we're actual customers there once in a while. Later during the dinner, we heard the waitress talk with the lady owner and say something like $600 is INSANE but it's a good idea so they should "print on bright paper and do like my uncle and drive around and put it in people's mailboxes".

I'm actually not upset at all. I know they're completely oblivious to the real costs of advertising. I can imagine this lady driving to 1,000 homes to drop off sheets of paper and then figuring out that even "free" has a cost in time, gaz, printing paper etc. It will probably bring them "some" sales, on a small scale, but nowhere near what 10,000 of these giant postcards could.

With that said though, here's where I'm reaching out to people who have been doing this with a serious question. I had made a list of restaurants in a 15 miles radius and it amounted to 20 + national brands (ie McDonalds, Arbys, etc).

Out of those 20 restaurants, 8 of them are very small neighborhood type places in a very small town (3,000 homes.. yes, 8 small restaurants for 3,000 homes). And I pretty much struck out on 2 of the 12 bigger ones. That doesn't leave a lot of room for error. I would have to successfully close 50% of them to start filling up the card nicely. Even if I aim for only 10 advertisers on the first card, it feels like the pool of potential advertisers is low now.

Basically, my question is, with the numbers I've given, is this area too small to support the card? I wanted to do one here and then have something to show when I scale it up to the bigger city (which has 70,000 citizens) instead of these 20,000 spread out over 2 1/2 zip codes. From everyone's feedback restaurants are what get the best results, and I only have ~10-12 of those prospects left.

Sorry for the long drawn out post. It's not the rejection that worries me since I didn't set the bar high in the first place. What worries me is the low number of prospects. If you get a 10% response out of 1000 then you're doing great. But if I get 10% out of 20-25, that's horrible.

I wonder if I should stop wasting time with this low-baller area and immediately move on to the bigger city (people earn more there, there's more addresses per zip code, several of them already advertise in the newspaper aka more low hanging fruits). Or should I grind my teeth on this place and gain experience, "pay my dues", with low expectations, so I'm better prepared when I go to the other place?

Thanks for the feedback. I'm usually more of a "behind the scenes" person, like I've made some pretty good money with online affiliation. To take action in the real world is tough for me so I don't want to give up but at the same time, I don't want to struggle finding 5-6 advertisers and barely break even.

PS: There's obviously more than 10 prospects if you count the non-restaurants, but since these have gotten the best results according to Bob Ross and others I've asked, they're what I focused on in this message.

Hey I see what you're doing and there are lots of salesmen on this forum so trust me everyone has their own little way of selling.

But before I ever got into sales I use to do PU (pickup). Of women, when I was younger. Somewhat immature at the time yes, but the stuff actually worked great for getting a woman home with you.

And what was advised in PU is one of the same core principals I use today. Which is simple, DO NOT trigger resistance. And this has everything to do with positioning. When you approach a woman, you can position yourself as the courter, the one who benefits most, or you can position yourself as something valuable. People with high social status rarely approach anyone.

So my "approach" for women was actually not an approach at all. It was an approach that came off like I wasn't approaching anyone, if that makes sense (you can read more about this in the M3 Model of Seduction).
I'd open the girl up, and demonstrated active disinterest. This doesn't mean saying "I'm not interested", this means opening her up in a way that showed I wasn't interested. For instance, 0 flirting. Having evasive stand offish bodylanguage. Only locking eyes if she did something worthy of approval. And if she said something I didn't like, I didn't agree and say I liked it, I forced her to qualify to me that much more or made it known I was interested in other things. Once again not by saying it, but by actually focusing on other things the second she said something I didn't like.

There are deep psychological forces at work in every person you meet.

My brother is one of the best salesmen I ever met in my life. For the first 10 years of sales he was aggressive, overt, always trying hard to close people.

He closed some sales, but for the most part all he did was trigger resistance.

When you go into these business's I say don't qualify your service or product to them. Don't talk about how its the best or other business's have been successful using it. Say "did you know that x business down the road from you uses 9x12 postcard marketing and their seats are always full?" or "did you know one of the largest reasons people don't get business in advertising is because they always advertise next to their competitors?" Like instead of saying "my system rocks because I don't advertise your competitors". You should be able to see the difference there. If you can see it, realize that difference almost means everything in sales.

Don't let them know you were the one who sold the successful marketing. Casually position it as "someone else used x marketing and had x success with it". Use specifics and keep the focus OFF YOU and YOUR TIES TO THE SERVICE. Its all about that positioning to create the right effect with sales. And the more I learn about sales the more I learn its usually easier than most people understand. People just don't see it the right way. By that I mean anytime you are trying to convey value to someone, you must first detach yourself from that value. The value will still be associated to you, you just kill that obvious link to yourself. Don't be the salesman trying to sell the valuable product or service. Focus on the SERVICE. Get the focus off you. Its so much harder for me to put into words than it would be to show you in real life. But I think you get the picture.

I've had decent success just focusing on how to word things the right way, really thats all sales is ever about. Write down all the things you KNOW are going to TRIGGER RESISTANCE, and find out a different way to say them.

You can start at "and thats exactly how you spark business". I NEVER try to teach my client how to be good at marketing. All it does is reinforce the fact I'm trying to benefit off them. That will just cause another objection that I'll have to find a work around for. So its essentially the same as speaking in circles. Rather then tie benefits to yourself, tie them to the product. Then learn how to seperate yourself from the product. Thats all I can really say right now as I'm far too tired to make proper sense.
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Unread 10th Mar 2012, 11:38 PM   #1026
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Originally Posted by RedShifted View Post

Hey I see what you're doing and there are lots of salesmen on this forum so trust me everyone has their own little way of selling.

But before I ever got into sales I use to do PU (pickup). Of women, when I was younger. Somewhat immature at the time yes, but the stuff actually worked great for getting a woman home with you.

And what was advised in PU is one of the same core principals I use today. Which is simple, DO NOT trigger resistance. And this has everything to do with positioning. When you approach a woman, you can position yourself as the courter, the one who benefits most, or you can position yourself as something valuable. People with high social status rarely approach anyone.

So my "approach" for women was actually not an approach at all. It was an approach that came off like I wasn't approaching anyone, if that makes sense (you can read more about this in the M3 Model of Seduction).
I'd open the girl up, and demonstrated active disinterest. This doesn't mean saying "I'm not interested", this means opening her up in a way that showed I wasn't interested. For instance, 0 flirting. Having evasive stand offish bodylanguage. Only locking eyes if she did something worthy of approval. And if she said something I didn't like, I didn't agree and say I liked it, I forced her to qualify to me that much more or made it known I was interested in other things. Once again not by saying it, but by actually focusing on other things the second she said something I didn't like.

There are deep psychological forces at work in every person you meet.

My brother is one of the best salesmen I ever met in my life. For the first 10 years of sales he was aggressive, overt, always trying hard to close people.

He closed some sales, but for the most part all he did was trigger resistance.

When you go into these business's I say don't qualify your service or product to them. Don't talk about how its the best or other business's have been successful using it. Say "did you know that x business down the road from you uses 9x12 postcard marketing and their seats are always full?" or "did you know one of the largest reasons people don't get business in advertising is because they always advertise next to their competitors?" Like instead of saying "my system rocks because I don't advertise your competitors". You should be able to see the difference there. If you can see it, realize that difference almost means everything in sales.

Don't let them know you were the one who sold the successful marketing. Casually position it as "someone else used x marketing and had x success with it". Use specifics and keep the focus OFF YOU and YOUR TIES TO THE SERVICE. Its all about that positioning to create the right effect with sales. And the more I learn about sales the more I learn its usually easier than most people understand. People just don't see it the right way. By that I mean anytime you are trying to convey value to someone, you must first detach yourself from that value. The value will still be associated to you, you just kill that obvious link to yourself. Don't be the salesman trying to sell the valuable product or service. Focus on the SERVICE. Get the focus off you. Its so much harder for me to put into words than it would be to show you in real life. But I think you get the picture.

I've had decent success just focusing on how to word things the right way, really thats all sales is ever about. Write down all the things you KNOW are going to TRIGGER RESISTANCE, and find out a different way to say them.

You can start at "and thats exactly how you spark business". I NEVER try to teach my client how to be good at marketing. All it does is reinforce the fact I'm trying to benefit off them. That will just cause another objection that I'll have to find a work around for. So its essentially the same as speaking in circles. Rather then tie benefits to yourself, tie them to the product. Then learn how to seperate yourself from the product. Thats all I can really say right now as I'm far too tired to make proper sense.
Very good post. I agree 100%. Studying pick up/psychology goes a LONG way in sales. The key is that you must demonstrate value. Once you have demonstrated higher value always use negative reinforcement. Negative reinforcement has helped me close more deals than any other action. If you receive a poor response or no response, take it back. Once you take the offer off the table, most people tend to immediately respond with a decisive push because they assume/associate a higher value to the product/service/or person.
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Unread 10th Mar 2012, 11:47 PM   #1027
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Yes absolutely. Demonstrating higher value, build comfort/rapport/trust, mirror body language, breathing, voice tone and speed (I always speak slow with deep and polytone voice) force people to qualify.. and theres NLP too which is incredible for sales. Also used a lot in seduction. The M3 Model and NLP was really all I learned. But I gave it a real thorough go. Going out 4 nights a week just to practice on people till I noticed patterns forming.

That is the type of stuff you can really practice everyday and get good at. Learning eye patterns, verbal representations of nonverbal behavoir, I think thats honestly the only reason I'm as good as I think I am at sales. Lots of people see these things as almost witchcraft or cultish crap but the reality is people are hardwired animals. They all are the same. At this point in my life I have no doubt about that.
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Unread 11th Mar 2012, 12:10 AM   #1028
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Good point, RedShifted....

I've been a 'public speaker', I guess you could say (a minister) for over 30 years. One thing different about me is that I don't 'hide' behind the pulpit - not that it would help since I'm 6'4" and my weight is none of your business

I get right down on floor level with my congregation, within mere feet of them, sometimes walking around and even touching them on their shoulders, while I engage them "dialogically" during the sermon - making it literally "conversational".

When I'm speaking/proclaiming the Word, I can see every nuance of movement and facial expression - I 'know' when I'm 'connecting' and when I'm not - - I "read" them, and since I'm not 'hiding' behind the pulpit, they can 'read' me, too. When THAT happens (to put it in 'sales parlance'), it's so easy to "close the deal" because you know they are where you are.

When I was in sales (hard consumables, sometimes door-to-door), it was like that, too. It's amazing how much easier it is if you really like people, like what you're doing, and genuinely want to help people - instead of just looking at them as the 'enemy' standing between you and a paycheck !

These are skills that can be learned and cultivated, as long as you're not 'afraid' of moods and emotions, as all too many are,... but THAT is a whole different issue that may require a lot more introspection and even counselling.

Belief in your product and real caring can't be faked - don't forget... they can 'read' you just as easily as you can 'read' them

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Unread 11th Mar 2012, 08:46 AM   #1029
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Originally Posted by BUFFALOBT View Post

We filled our first edition in 3 1/2 weeks doing it part-time whenever we got around to it.

This is a viable business that can be done anywhere by anyone. But- if you don't think it can be done, it's not for you. Move on to something else you can believe in.

We have a Territory Rep who sold 7 ads in his first week...would have been more but his internet was down and he couldn't email anyone.

We have another Rep who made his first cold-call to a company who advertises in another program, and signed them up on the spot over the phone.

There is a TON of opportunity for this out there-
I am curious to know how/what do you pay your reps?
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Unread 11th Mar 2012, 10:25 AM   #1030
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Originally Posted by Jmoola View Post

I am curious to know how/what do you pay your reps?
$1,400 per filled edition of 14 ads($100/ad).

How? Commission only after the edition is mailed out.
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Unread 11th Mar 2012, 03:55 PM   #1031
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How did you go about finding this comission person? And are they happy with the comission? Granted, I guess $1,400 for 2 week's worth of part time isn't bad at all.
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Unread 11th Mar 2012, 07:53 PM   #1032
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Originally Posted by BUFFALOBT View Post

$1,400 per filled edition of 14 ads($100/ad).

How? Commission only after the edition is mailed out.
How were you able to locate your reps?
If through craigslist, how did you word your ad?
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Unread 11th Mar 2012, 09:37 PM   #1033
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Originally Posted by J smith View Post

How did you go about finding this comission person? And are they happy with the comission? Granted, I guess $1,400 for 2 week's worth of part time isn't bad at all.
This as you know is the hard part- finding good commission sales people.

We got lucky with our first one- he was a flyer delivery guy who fell in love with this business and asked if he could do it full time. He has a lot of experience in working with small business owners.
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Unread 12th Mar 2012, 10:28 AM   #1034
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Bob, this is a really good idea - I do direct one to one strategies for my clients and will be trying this out. At the mo, it's just singular to their present and past customers. This could be a pretty good step when they have seen the results of singular mailings to get my other clients on the full card as a way of prospecting. Cheers.
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Unread 12th Mar 2012, 07:48 PM   #1035
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Buffalobt, were you at all worried that the salesperson you've hired would just take the idea and run with it? I guess to me the selling is the hard part. So if he's doing it, why not get a bigger share of the profit by doing the whole thing himself.
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Unread 12th Mar 2012, 08:45 PM   #1036
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Originally Posted by J smith View Post

Buffalobt, were you at all worried that the salesperson you've hired would just take the idea and run with it? I guess to me the selling is the hard part. So if he's doing it, why not get a bigger share of the profit by doing the whole thing himself.
You would need to do one of these for yourself to understand just how time consuming it is to put it all together.

A good sales person is good at sales...maybe not so much at all the other stuff that goes into one of these.

That's exactly why we did one ourselves- to get a real understanding of what it takes to make it happen.

So no- I'm not worried about that at all.
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Unread 12th Mar 2012, 08:51 PM   #1037
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Interesting, any tips you can share? I got my "sample postcard" designed and printed, got Bob's premium wso, going throuhg it's content. Going to USPS's What the heck is EDDM and how do you use it" class/presentation tomorrow.

So I am really curious as to what else is involved that you find more time consuming/challenging than selling the ads.
Granted if you implement Bob's "triple threat" approach I can see how it could be time consuming.
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Unread 12th Mar 2012, 11:29 PM   #1038
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I was looking into this business. What businesses you suggest to approach that will like this kind of service? I am thinking pizza/delivery restaurants, oil/tire change shops, any other suggestions?
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Unread 14th Mar 2012, 10:51 AM   #1039
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Originally Posted by J smith View Post

A question for those who've got their postcards made/designed, as well as those who posted theirs in this thread. Has anyone actually been able to fit 8 full, equal sized ads + branding on their card?

The card TWalker posted above for instance has 8 ads + branding, but the 2 ads on the bottom right are clearly half sized. Also the ads vary in size to a decent degree, so much so that the business of the top right might feel they got screwed compared to bottom center.

The "Titan Value" postcard that was posted by someone earlier in this thread also has a similar design, as does the design I got from my graphic designer.

So, has anyone been able to fit all 8 ads + branding? And if so, could you post your card (or pm it to me)
And also, do you guys put your branding on both sides of the card, or just one side?
Designing mine with branding & postage on 1 side. That side has 7 decent sized spaces and 1 small space I will use for my ad or?. Back side has 8 decent sized as spaces.
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Unread 14th Mar 2012, 10:58 AM   #1040
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Originally Posted by michaelplies View Post

I was looking into this business. What businesses you suggest to approach that will like this kind of service? I am thinking pizza/delivery restaurants, oil/tire change shops, any other suggestions?
Massage, tanning, specialty restaurants like BBQ, Steak, Sushi, Chines buffet & delivery, Food delivery services, misc auto svcs, ladies boutiques, discount clothiers, anything you would see in a coupon book. You want to have your card comprised of strong offers that people are seeking, like restaurants, auto services, etc. These should be 3/4 of your ads. The better the offers the better the response.

Do some coupon keyword research, there are hundreds of possibilities.

I would buy the Premium WSO if still available. The info + access to Bob's mastermind forum is a real bargain!
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Unread 14th Mar 2012, 01:15 PM   #1041
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Originally Posted by DJVan View Post

Designing mine with branding & postage on 1 side. That side has 7 decent sized spaces and 1 small space I will use for my ad or?. Back side has 8 decent sized as spaces.

Originally Posted by J smith
The card TWalker posted above for instance has 8 ads + branding, but the 2 ads on the bottom right are clearly half sized. Also the ads vary in size to a decent degree, so much so that the business of the top right might feel they got screwed compared to bottom center.

The "Titan Value" postcard that was posted by someone earlier in this thread also has a similar design, as does the design I got from my graphic designer.

So, has anyone been able to fit all 8 ads + branding? And if so, could you post your card (or pm it to me)
And also, do you guys put your branding on both sides of the card, or just one side?
Mine has 16. If you don't want half sized just take 2 ads and make 1. Why would anyone feel screwed? They get the size they pay for...simple as that.
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Unread 14th Mar 2012, 04:13 PM   #1042
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Originally Posted by J smith View Post

Interesting, any tips you can share? I got my "sample postcard" designed and printed, got Bob's premium wso, going throuhg it's content. Going to USPS's What the heck is EDDM and how do you use it" class/presentation tomorrow.

So I am really curious as to what else is involved that you find more time consuming/challenging than selling the ads.
Granted if you implement Bob's "triple threat" approach I can see how it could be time consuming.
I'm not saying it can't be done J. My point is that there are people out there who may want to plug into a system, and not worry about all the other stuff.
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Unread 17th Mar 2012, 08:17 AM   #1043
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Uggghhhh my stuff is getting ripped off and leaked onto new websites....so I'm pulling all links of my mockup to protect my advertisers' info.

I mean I dont mind a couple graphics being stolen but NOBODY has the permission to post up images of my advertisers' names and info across the world.

Guess imitation is a form of flattery but I dont like it! Hope everyone else is well and kicking butt on the postcard business!

Professional graphic designer and entrepreneurial Jedi Knight in training...check out my portfolio
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Unread 17th Mar 2012, 01:27 PM   #1044
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Originally Posted by greggorio28 View Post

Uggghhhh my stuff is getting ripped off and leaked onto new websites....so I'm pulling all links of my mockup to protect my advertisers' info.

I mean I dont mind a couple graphics being stolen but NOBODY has the permission to post up images of my advertisers' names and info across the world.

Guess imitation is a form of flattery but I dont like it! Hope everyone else is well and kicking butt on the postcard business!
Even if they weren't doing this, these businesses' contact info are still exposed to the world by just being part of society with directories, ads, and the net. You can look at it as the copycats providing extra promotion. But the copycats should acknowledge that the designs were done by you. Are they posting up these graphics without your name on there? You can post these mockups with a huge watermark of your name and contact info that goes across the coupon designs where they may not want to reuse your images.

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Unread 17th Mar 2012, 10:04 PM   #1045
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Originally Posted by RedShifted View Post

It shows you right in the wso how to do it.

As far as different size ads like umm just charge different prices. Then noone will be mad. Also says this is the wso I believe.
Hey RedShifted, thanks a lot for all the information that you've shared with us.

I had a question though, and anyone who used e-mailing the owners as a strategy to warm the leads, hopefully can give me an idea what to do.

So my question is, how do I find the email of the person that I need to contact, once I know they are advertising on ValPak?
I've tried to go through Manta.com but usually they show only the phone number there. Tried their website, about 80% of those companies that are advertising on ValPak are big companies which usually have a contact form on their website, but I am not sure whether the owner will EVER read my message?

I really appreciate your help guys! Because I'm stuck at this point ...
Thanks.
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Unread 17th Mar 2012, 10:11 PM   #1046
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Thank you for sharing this, will definantly bookmark it!

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Unread 18th Mar 2012, 08:35 AM   #1047
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This is great! Would like to try this. Thanks!
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Unread 18th Mar 2012, 09:26 AM   #1048
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Originally Posted by agonce View Post

Hey RedShifted, thanks a lot for all the information that you've shared with us.

I had a question though, and anyone who used e-mailing the owners as a strategy to warm the leads, hopefully can give me an idea what to do.

So my question is, how do I find the email of the person that I need to contact, once I know they are advertising on ValPak?
I've tried to go through Manta.com but usually they show only the phone number there. Tried their website, about 80% of those companies that are advertising on ValPak are big companies which usually have a contact form on their website, but I am not sure whether the owner will EVER read my message?

I really appreciate your help guys! Because I'm stuck at this point ...
Thanks.
I do lots of email marketing for my editions, and I've had some pretty good luck. Key is to keep on sending- most of these business owners are too busy to really check out every email they get.

In regards to your specific question, visit the websites of the Valpak advertisers...if they have an email listed then use it. Pretty simple.

We have a "ZERO to $1,400 in 30 days" turnkey program for Territory Reps- if you want to just sell this and not deal with all the other stuff.
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Unread 19th Mar 2012, 06:57 AM   #1049
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Re: Make $5000 per month and be a hero.
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Just managed to check out ValPak pricing - They are competitive, and apparently they may have SMS coming too.

Has anyone else seen a USPS EDDM (Every Door Direct Mail) on TV? Caught one Saturday night...

Got a Graphics Artist locked in this past weekend for the first card.

Have one Salon who wants out because 'direct mail should be non compete on the card' (LOL) I requested to present to the Salon Technicians but was declined by owner... She has heard the non compete several times - and I found a *sweet* looking brand new shop Saturday... Ain't no big deal, but heads up that this stuff might happen, so be sure to head it off by explaining why this works before it happens!

Pushing hard, this is going to be a Great Week!

Thank You itsBobRoss
Thank You greggorio28

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Unread 19th Mar 2012, 09:09 AM   #1050
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Re: Make $5000 per month and be a hero.
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Originally Posted by ewenmack View Post

Eddie,

Let your prospect know that what you are offering is to get new customers in the door.

That's your business.

Let him know that's it's his business to give them a great experience so they naturally want to come back...that's his job.

Best,
Ewen
That is precisely how I'm positioning and presenting this.

It also opens the door to provide an additional service: capturing the contact info of people who bring in the coupon and marketing to them in the future. Of course, you can do that for them, creating another win-win proposition.
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