How to build a sales force on a shoe string budget.

68 replies
I get a couple PM's about this semi regularly,
There are two other off liners who have asked me about this
that are currently looking for offices.

also i owe an explanation from another post about
" building not finding " a sales force.

So i figured i would start this thread and try to roll it all into one.

-

First, as we all know, i am a phone guy. I know this works for
phone rooms, because i have done it.

However i believe this will will work for door to door sales as well.
But i am not positive, because i have never built a door to door
sales force.

This is a model that i was taught and have added to, it has never failed once.
It is a model i will never stop using.

-

I will explain my "system" ( i hate that word ) but it is exactly that.

i will show you my system, and then show you how to build the
same system on a budget ... please understand i did not say at no cost
i said on a budget. It takes money to make money, i am just
going to show you how to get the best bang for your buck.

This is currently what happens if you come to my company for a sales job.

You get interviewed, get asked about past experience, asked for referrals,
and then you read a script into a recorder. ( not our real script )

Then sent home. Some one else listens to the recording.
if they like what they hear, the applicant gets to come back.

we don't bother with the referrals, we don't really care about them.

we care about the experience and the recording.

If you have "to" much experience, or have worked for a company where
we know they have sleazy sales tactics, we wont hire you.

If you can read a pitch cold, under pressure, and you don't sound horrible
we will give you a chance.

Next

You now have to go through training.

Training is 6 weeks.

( it is really 8 but we tell them 6 )

Week one they sit in a class room, with a trainer ... dry erase board and all.
They are then taught the products, Inside and out.

they are provided written material explaining the products, answering
questions, ect.

They are provided the scripts and rebuttals.

We also have a pbx system where the trainees can hear live sales
from any of the sales person on the floor.

During that week that are expected to memorize the scripts and rebuttals
we even break them up into pairs and make them pitch each other.

They are also expected to memorize the products.

During this process they are tested, those that don't look like they "have it"
are generally cut. those that fail the test get cut.

last phase at the end of the week , if they have passed all the written tests
and oral script test ( proving they memorized them and the rebuttals )

they have to record one pitch from memory.

that's it, week one of training is complete.

that doesn't mean they have a job yet. The final recording goes
to the floor manager. If the manager does not like the recording
they are cut, and no moving on.


Week 2 and 3 ---

These two weeks are designed to get rid of the whiners and quitters.

It is also designed to start teaching accountability, confidence and sales 101.

There is a training teacher / manager for each set of training.
this is where they meet the first one.

When the newbies get on the phone they generally sound like crap,
completely unsure of them selves....

So we give them the worst leads we have. Our leads are segmented
We alphabetize them as campaigns. The leads they are calling are called "D"
leads.

Every single sales person in this office .. has spent two weeks calling that list.
Same list, no exceptions. These companies ( the ones who have not been asked
to be removed ) have literally been called 1000's of times...

They have two weeks to make a sale, and move onto the next step of training.
With the "D" leads, if they don't they are fired.

Their teacher / manager is also on the phones selling ( not in a "D" camping )
They can listen to him, and when they are stuck, or he hears some thing wrong
he takes the time to teach them properly, and even TO a deal for them.

These guys are all sitting in a square next to each other, so they can feed of
each other and learn... and the teacher / manger ... is making sales while
helping them.. so it adds to the "i can do this" mentality.

The sales manager makes commission for each sale, he helps the trainees get.

( this is to ensure he does his job properly )

week 4.

same deal just with "C" campaign. These leads are slightly better...
which just means instead of being called 1000 times... they might have been
called 500.... lol. like i said slightly better.

The sales teacher /manager spends more time with them on technique
they should have already started sounding confident. and they got at least
one sale, or they would not have made it to this group.

again, trainer gets commission based on trainee sales.

again, no sales in this week, your cut. no moving on.


week 5 and 6 are exactly the same, no sales in those weeks ... your cut.
they also have trainers helping them.the only difference
is they leads campaigns get better each week.

with the exception, that during week 6 if you do not get at least
one sale, with out a TO, then you will be cut.

you have to show you can get sales with out relying on any crutches.

By week 6, we have weeded out all the liars, the ones who cant follow
directions, the ones who don't have what it takes. and they have
started to make more then one sale a week.

Week 7 and 8.

They are put onto the main floor. They think they have passed all training
and have are officially hired. In reality they are... and they aren't.

Now the floor manager, has eyes and ears on.

He has the ultimate say, if he thinks your not cut out for this
then your out.

Those final two weeks your on "A" leads... if you cant sell these leads
your wasting our leads and we don't want you.

also during those last two weeks, we have inhouse compliance monitors
they listen to them, all day every day for two weeks.

They have a list of things you can and cannot say.. all things you have been
already taught. They take notes .. cross over the line they make a report
and give it to the floor manager. 3 strikes... your out.

3 strikes your out, applies to every sales person .. no exceptions.

These compliance monitors are a group of retired ladies who
who have been taught .... there only job is to make sure...
we don't ( as a company ) get in trouble by selling in a way
that makes us vulnerable.


Now if your not fired in those two weeks ... you are now officially
one of the gang. and you have already paid the company back on
its investment in you ( via sales )

you are now on 90 days probation ( that has nothing to do with sales )
and everything to do with, showing up on time, coming back
from lunch.. not showing up drunk. ect.

after your 90 days are up. benefits kick in ect.


=

Ok, here is the bad news.

The odds of making it to the main floor are about 1 per 100.

the good news.

they are bad asses in the making. They don't want to go any where.
and you will make boat loads of return off of the initial training.

btw training for us is never really over, we do morning mojo meetings
that teach everyone each others style, gets the vibe humming
and the vets love show boating with advanced tactics.
#budget #build #force #sales #shoe #string
  • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
    Week one Trainer, does not have to be any one special ... as far as sales go.
    As a matter of fact I have found through trial and error, the best ones
    are middle school teachers.

    I interviewed hundreds, hired many, kept 4.

    three of those four that worked out longer then a few weeks were unemployed teachers.

    two of them were middle school teachers.

    Teacher unemployment is high. It should be easy to grab a few.

    The way to keep them, is to provide a commission based on sales, based on
    trainees that make it through the class.

    We pay her 1% off all trainee sales for 180 days. From start of class.
    For the first 60 days, it really doesn't amount to much.
    It is designed that way on purpose, it insures she does not push through unqualified people.


    The rest of the training managers get hourly ( min wage ) + a sliding scale commission.
    And 1% of all trainees that pass from their level, for 180 days.

    again, this is done on purpose, to insure no one gets bumped that should not.
    .

    Just to answer the question now, before i get PM ed to death,

    The sliding scale is 7% to 14%. You get 7 % if you only make quota.
    More if you exceed it. If you fail to make quota, you get minimum wage
    for the pay period. If you do that 2 weeks in a row, your fired.

    Our quota is weekly.

    No, i am not going to say what quota is.

    ============================

    Now lets build this on a budget.

    First. If you are new to phone rooms, I would stick with ONE product or ONE service.

    Next, i would take everything you know and write it down. Try to make a manual
    on all steps of the product or service.

    If you don't have this proper in your mind... you will never be able to teach the teacher.

    the teacher will learn from your notes, and then make her own.

    yours will not be good for teaching, your job, is to make sure she understands everything
    inside and out... remember, she does not need to understand sales .. she needs to be able
    to teach people about your product or service.

    Test her ... then test her some more, each time you will see you need to explain a part
    or clear up an understanding... this is good, it solidifies things in your mind.

    If you are not clear on what your doing.. you are doomed.
    If she is not clear on what your doing.. you are doomed.
    So this step .. imho .. is vital.

    Once you both have things clear, you now also have things in print.
    And you have some one ready to teach your product.

    Put an add in the news paper.. hiring sales people.

    Don't get creative, don't say in the add best sales since sliced bread

    Just say some thing simple like.

    HELP WANTED
    Phone Sales
    $700 - $1200 a week
    + Benifits
    555-5555 for interview.

    Trust me, your phones will blow up.


    Interview everyone that calls.

    DO NOT OFFER ANYONE A JOB ON THE SPOT.

    Segment your applications .. AFTER the interview

    good / bad / ugly ... you get the jist.

    You will know which ones feel right for each of the week
    training positions.

    Call them in, let your teacher teach them.

    Test them. If they pass, hire them on probation

    I forgot to mention, I like to hire in batches.
    Because i know i am a softy, i always let a few
    in that should never have made it through the door

    I feel its easier to fire some one, then it is not to give them a chance.

    I make up for it, by over hiring.

    Also, you should know.. I don't hire any more.. that's some one else s job now

    So, now you have 5 people. 1 trainer , and 4 people on the phones.

    Four people on the phones will make you money. You cant argue that.

    But after a month or so, after you get your act to together.. after
    you have made sales, payed out payroll a few times, garnered some trust
    in your crew, it is time to grow.

    Now, you offer the orig 4 sales people the idea of being training managers
    and explain to them what that entails, and offer them the position.
    and of course the extra money.

    If they jump on it. Put another add in the paper.

    And start the ball rolling.

    That's pretty much it. Fairly rudimentary process.

    ==

    If you need to do it on even more of a budget.

    Hire and teach the trainer.. .. then hire the sales people / trainers
    one at a time... slower to grow.. but nothing is wrong with that.


    =====

    I was in a rush, i will com back in and tidy this up in a little bit.
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  • Profile picture of the author Baadier Sydow
    Thanks for sharing this its top class information and super actionable.
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  • Profile picture of the author vndnbrgj
    Wow! That's a hell of an intricate system
    I can see how that weeds everyone out that wouldn't be a good fit.
    You get left with some hella-good phone guys.

    If any ever leave you, give them my number!

    Sidenotes:
    Do they just get a base pay during training?
    How much more could there be in a part 2???
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    • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
      Originally Posted by vndnbrgj View Post

      Wow! That's a hell of an intricate system
      I can see how that weeds everyone out that wouldn't be a good fit.
      You get left with some hella-good phone guys.

      If any ever leave you, give them my number!

      Sidenotes:
      Do they just get a base pay during training?
      How much more could there be in a part 2???
      Min wage for that first week.

      min + comm after.

      Part One just showed what i do..

      Part two is going to show how you can actually do it
      with out breaking the bank.. or your sanity.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Wow Ken, that sounds like an aweful lot... It sounds like a great system though.

    I have traditionally just given them a half day of training, an hour monitoring someone else, and stick them the phone to bang it out.... within a week they either produce profit or we let em go.

    Of course the leads I use are expendable. Info usa, or sales genie. I dont care if they burn through a million leads training, as long as they bang it out and start producing shortly thereafter.

    If your leads cost alot of money, I can see why you would want to do all that. I just use regular ones, and I have always just given people a little training and let them take off.

    Just trained some telemarketers for another warriors call center that way last month. Trained him for a week, live on the phone, just monitoring and guiding a couple of hours per day. At first he only got a couple of leads a day, but by the end of the week he was up to writing 8 phone appointments per day...and The call center owner informed me this week that he is still going strong.

    Alot of companies do what you are doing, so Im sure there are alot of good reasons to do it. I just personally dont. If a guy can do it he can, and he can make you money IN the training process has always been my motto. I would feel pretty risky investing 3 weeks into someone before I found out what they could do .

    I dont normally disagree with you because you are the most brilliant guy I have come across on this forum frankly, and Im not now...but I just have a different approach. I train em on the phone.

    Ps. Great insight and contribution!
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    • Profile picture of the author SJJPFTW
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post


      I have traditionally just given them a half day of training, an hour monitoring someone else, and stick them the phone to bang it out.... within a week they either produce profit or we let em go.
      That is how I started on the phones back in '99. I worked there for 3 years and I don't think the sales team was ever 100% the same from one day to the next lol
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      • Profile picture of the author John Durham
        Originally Posted by SJJPFTW View Post

        That is how I started on the phones back in '99. I worked there for 3 years and I don't think the sales team was ever 100% the same from one day to the next lol
        Im not disagreeing with Ken in any way. I think its a great system if you can pull it off. I dont think a reasonable person could presume that I dont agree, from my words. Just said I do it differently. furthermore, after having had numerous nights of conversation with Ken for 6 hours at a time, until 5am or even earlier... I know he has the wherewithall to pull something like this off, so it obviously works for him.

        Edit: We all depend on different systems. I dont depend on a sales person to be 100% every day, I rather depend on the idea that all pistons never fire at once, and so if you have a certain amount of pistons, you can average how many are going to fire each day to meet your quota....it may be different ones every day, but if you know your averages you know how many you need to hit your numbers consistently.

        Actually mine is exactly opposite, I dont like depending on superstars, so I try to design systems that a below average performer can maintain a minimum quota with, on an average day.

        Super stars are gravy...
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    • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      Wow Ken, that sounds like an aweful lot...
      Yes, it is a lot of work. to set up, more then anything, and to keep
      the cycle running. other then that. not so much.

      the way we keep the cycle going is we offer the sales people
      1% commission for 90 days for any new sales people they bring in.

      payed out ONLY if and when some one makes it thru probation.

      plus lots of help wanted ads.


      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      If your leads cost alot of money, I can see why you would want to do all that.
      that's exactly why, our leads cost us.

      matter of fact, that cost might be getting ready to go up, if i can pull
      off a plan i have.


      Plus one more reason, that has nothing to do with economics.

      its just plain hard as hell to find that one magic trainer.

      Splitting it up this way plays on different strengths, and nobody
      has to rely on one guy.
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  • Profile picture of the author SJJPFTW
    Great thread Ken! I really appreciate the time you have taken to share this here and I am sure I am not the only one.

    Keep up the great work.



    Oh forgot to ask, during this training are you paying them or they working for gratis?
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    @ Ken,

    I hear ya. I know how create get your leads and Im jealous because you are so damn smart. lol I have told a few people here that you have the most brilliant lead gen system but I swear not to tell and havent! Its brilliant. If a guy master your lead gen system for himself, even if he didnt have a big floor, he would be rich , and an army of ONE!
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  • Profile picture of the author Rearden
    Ken -- you still running a floor?

    Or are you solo now and got tired of dealing with people's (employee's) bullshit?

    Wondering if the time/stress differential is worth (or actually turns) the profit.
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    • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
      Originally Posted by Rearden View Post

      Ken -- you still running a floor?

      Or are you solo now and got tired of dealing with people's (employee's) bullshit?

      Wondering if the time/stress differential is worth (or actually turns) the profit.
      I have specific monetary goal in mind. Until i reach that goal.
      I will always have a phone room. It is the only way that i know
      how to make the type of money i need.

      That's not to say my eyes aren't open to new ... or better ideas.

      Sometimes people stick to what they know, for better or worse.
      I hope that i am smarter then that.
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by Rearden View Post

      Ken -- you still running a floor?

      Or are you solo now and got tired of dealing with people's (employee's) bullshit?

      Wondering if the time/stress differential is worth (or actually turns) the profit.
      Most people here would be happy with a million or two reardon, it would shock you if you knew what this guy is use to....you might not even believe it, which is a good reason not to throw numbers around because alot of people wouldnt believe some of the things these warriors accomplish around here.

      And I agree...if you want to make 100k per month thats one thing...but there is not a single marketing technique talked about at the WF that could achieve the kind of stuff Ken is talking about, other than a large call center.

      With Bowers call center that I use to manage, we did 50 million selling web pages in one year... and they were only 20 dollar per month web pages with no design fees. Telemarketers can accomplish things like an ant army...that no other form of marketing can touch that I know of.

      You could easily achieve a couple hundred grand per year by yourself as a telemarketer, just cold calling 15 hours per week...now just think if you had 100 of you.

      Now add to that 100 of you calling 40 hours per week instead of 15

      Now add to that a system like Kens that makes conversions 3 times higher...

      You are starting to get the picture of whats possible.

      Its hard to wrap your mind around , but a hundred telemarketers can create hundreds of millions of dollars.

      You have to be very special to be able to wrap your mind around something like that.
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      • Profile picture of the author payoman
        Cold calling really does seem to trump everything else.

        I admit, I haven't done much other stuff, but even the other day, I sent out an offer to a list of (70) leads (people who had expressed interest in a website over the phone with me in the last 12 months) and STILL didn't get a single call back.

        And that was from qualified, fairly high quality leads.

        Put that up against today, where I only did around 50 dials to completely cold leads from Google and I got 7 leads, 2 with strong interest.

        All I know is if I ever get into any other business, the first way I am going to try to sell the product or service is cold calling.
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      • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
        Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

        there is not a single marketing technique talked about at the WF that could achieve the kind of stuff Ken is talking about, other than a large call center.
        Well i guess the cat is out of the bag now.

        It will be interesting to me to see how the chips fall.
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  • Profile picture of the author d1ey0u
    Great read! It's still too early for me to hire a sales team, but eventually I would like to try this system to build a kick-ass sales team!

    I look forward to part 2.
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  • Profile picture of the author vndnbrgj
    When are you gonna give us part 2.

    You got me hungry for more.....
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    • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
      Originally Posted by vndnbrgj View Post

      When are you gonna give us part 2.

      You got me hungry for more.....
      few hours give or take... sorry about the delay. i got busy
      doing nothing, then it was late... lol

      its easy to burn through time reading posts and what not.

      I'll get on it soon as i get home from the office.
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      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
        I have extensive experience building a door to door (or in home) sales force.

        Would that help here, or should I use in in a different thread?

        Ken mentioned it at the beginning, but I didn't know if it was a passing mention, or if someone really wanted to know.
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        • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

          I have extensive experience building a door to door (or in home) sales force.

          Would that help here, or should I use in in a different thread?

          sure join in brotha...

          we can make this the one stop shop for building "a" or "the" dream team
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          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
            Okey Dokey.
            The direct sales force I built sold vacuum cleaners in people's home. The price was from $699 to $2,299 depending on the year. I was the distributor/owner.

            We ran ads and recruited from people's homes (that we showed vacuum cleaners to). The better salespeople were from the ads. The first several years, I worked according to the company manual; Hire in masses, they sell their relatives, they quit, we hire again. I hated it, I thought we were treating the new people like cattle, and figured out how to really grow a business.

            So we run an ad, telling them that it's sales, and I interview them in a group.
            Maybe 2 groups of 25 each. The next day, we trained one group. About half left after a short private conversation, never to return. But the group looks like the same group to everyone there.

            I did the training for 5 days. How to use the machines, a flip book presentation that they needed to learn (not exactly word for word, but the ideas had to come across). A big mistake I see all the time is getting the worst salesman to come in to train. I want them to see what selling looks like.
            I want them to see the scripted presentation work.

            At the end of four days, they are trained on the fifth day to get referrals. Yes, they would fill out referral slips with real names, and then would call them for a couple "practice calls" over the weekend. I would send an experienced sales rep with them, or go myself. It was really a training call, but I was there (or my rep) to help if a sale looked likely. The main thing we looked for was skill in getting referrals.

            The second week, we had the new rep make the referral calls, and we would go with them for the presentation. The difference was 1) We made the presentation while they watched and 2) We paid them as if they made the sale themselves.

            Why? Because we wanted sales. I wanted the new person to see sales being made. I wanted them to see that nobody yells at you, throws you out, or gets mad.

            Our pay system was completely commission, but...we guaranteed them ten sales.

            Let's say the sale was $1,500. The new rep may get $250 per sale. But we would do the demonstrations until they saw ten sales. Usually 16-20 presentations. All these presentations were generated either by referrals called by the new rep, or by a survey program that generated about one appointment for every 10 people calling in to get a gift (and thy already knew there was a presentation involved). The experienced rep may have been paid $600 on their personal sales, or the difference between the new guy sales and theirs. If the new guy left, their trainer got the leads.

            The huge benefit to the experienced guy, was that he was flush with appointments with people that would likely buy (family and close friends of the new guy). The new rep had ten sales before they went out on their own.

            The new guy made more money than any real "job" would produce, And they saw sales being made. There is no better training. They saw that people actually paid money for these vacuums. They saw that a sale was actually expected. Of course, during their first ten sales, we had training for 4 hours every afternoon. (the appointments were nearly always in the evening.) The 4 hour training lasted until they got their 10 sales, and then it was just an hour a day of meeting-getting appointments-advanced training before appointments.

            Training was 1-5. 5-6 was advanced training etc. First appointment at 6:30. Second at 8:30. We always double booked the 6:30 appointments, because sometimes they would fall through. We might reschedule once, but not twice. A morning appointment was at 11;00 AM. We had to be very careful that we didn't book an appointment during a lunch break. We wanted 120 minutes at least (we told them 30 minutes unless they had questions). All appointments had to be in their home. No exceptions.

            By the end of the first month, we had reps that were used to making sales, knew how to make them, and had plenty of appointments to go on.
            Or they quit. Or we let them go. But if they lasted 4 weeks, they usually stayed.

            I repeated this process three or four times, and them very seldom after that. I just didn't want a team of more that 6-8 people. I wanted to be able to work with them individually, and I really didn't need more money.

            I had several other distributors that paid me to do a weeks training for their new crew, and it paid well, but my main office's sales always suffered when I was away very long.

            I did this for about 25 years. I eventually moved out of the area, sold my office to my two office managers, and they promptly closed after a few months.

            There were several keys here;
            The new guys got to see sales made, and then we went with them on their sales until we thought it was no longer needed. They always got paid as though they made the sale themselves.
            There was never a surprise about what they got paid. If we gave a discount to the customer, I'd give the rep options. They could choose, not me.
            We really gave great gifts for presentations. At one point I was giving away a Black & white TV for a presentation (as long as they were qualified)

            Occasionally, we got bad apples in the group. They were let go at the first sign of trouble.
            To guarantee that we had enough appointments for everyone, we also did surveys (not every day, but if we saw a need) to generate appointments that day.

            If we got 10 referrals from a buyer (we never asked the non-buyers for referrals) and when 4 took a look at our vacuum cleaner, they got a gift with a cost of $200-$300, and a retail price much higher. We hand delivered these. These people always...always gave us more names and these people nearly always bought. Why? Because to them, everyone we saw...bought. So they thought that buying was the natural thing to do.

            We did use a person to schedule the appointments. And she answered the phone when our survey people called in. And we called referrals.

            But cold calling residential was a killer. These people burned out pretty quick (the cold callers), and the appointment quality was low. (not the fault of the caller, but these was no referral, and so a sale was less likely.)

            I refused to show married women alone, or married men alone. They simply almost never bought. Single men & single women were OK.
            Here's what we knew before we went out;
            Married or single (we would tell them 3 times when booking the appointment that they both had to be there or we couldn't proceed).
            What was their job, and for how long. (retired was fine. Unemployed was not)
            Home owner or renter. (renters bought, but credit was more of a challenge)
            Pets? Allergies? Kind of vacuum cleaner and age of vacuum.

            Anyway, It hummed along pretty well. Every new class we would have to overcome a few beliefs that they had;
            1) that they could sell in huge numbers to large companies.
            2) that people would really buy later (I'm crying as I type this) :rolleyes:
            3) that they thought they knew how to sell because they watched Glengary Glenn Ross or Boiler room.

            Most people that would quit did so the first few days of basic training. I would never coat the truth, or make promises. I wanted to quickly see what selling was like so they could (and I could) decide if it was for them. Oh, a pierced tongue, lip, mohawk, green hair, and tobacco chewing were not tolerated. Sorry, but it's my house. my rules. Most of our customers were middle aged straight blue collar worker bees. That's the reason I couldn't send out "Mr. I want to express myself with my unique blend of odors and fright wigs".

            Would I do it again? No. I'm happy as a speaker and selling my offline system.
            Is it different from a call center? Maybe the skills are the same, I don't know.

            Anyway, I hope this helps someone.
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    • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
      Originally Posted by vndnbrgj View Post

      When are you gonna give us part 2.

      You got me hungry for more.....

      There ya go bro.

      BTW, are you interested because you are thinking of opening
      a phone room ?
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  • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
    @ Claude Whitacre

    That is very insightful, i am sure it will help some one , thank you

    also i just have to ask... was it Kirby or Electriclux ? or some other?
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

      @ Claude Whitacre

      That is very insightful, i am sure it will help some one , thank you

      also i just have to ask... was it Kirby or Electriclux ? or some other?
      It was Tri-Star for 19 years, Rainbow for about a year, and then Thermax (Like a Rainbow) for 6 years or so. I was a distributor for them all.
      I would leave one company typically because they would raise my price more than I wanted, or some other silly reason. I stopped selling Themax vacuums when I decided to become more active in speaking.

      Before vacuum cleaners it was life insurance for a couple of years, and in 1981 it was life insurance again for a year or so (because financing was lost during the recession, and credit cards weren't as popular then)

      An interesting "vacuum cleanery side note"

      All in home sales of vacuum cleaners have roughly the same price point.
      Most in home vac people have a terrible reputation with finance companies, credit card companies, and consumer groups..and deservedly so.

      The internet and amazon.com & e-bay have made in home selling far harder. It's just so easy to find the exact same machine for 60% less from an online dealer. There are still in home vacuum cleaner guys, but it's just a whisper of what it was 10 years ago. And there hasn't been a single encyclopedia salesman for over 15 years. Times are achangin.

      added later; I want you guys to understand that the fact that I sold vacuum cleaners was completely unimportant. This model would work for many different businesses. I even acted as a consultant to a water purification company to show their distributors what I did.

      And the brand of vacuum cleaner is the least important part at all. When I speak at the annual vacuum cleaner dealer trade association meetings (usually in Vegas), everyone asks what brands I sell (I also own a successful retail store). They think thats a key....like what color sweater I wear.

      Here is another tidbit. The retail vacuum cleaner guys are completely different from the in home guys.
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  • Profile picture of the author vndnbrgj
    Its sounds like Kirby... but ran better than the distributorships around here.
    Or it could be Rainbow?...unless that is Electrolux

    Over here they knock doors for appts. with a lead in of a bottle of tide or something like that.
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  • Profile picture of the author kcom
    My guess is Filter Queen.
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  • Profile picture of the author vndnbrgj
    It is something I am considering...
    But I will have to see how my two current projects turn out.

    I wouldn't mind the 4 callers and a trainer to just set appts for me.
    Then I could just be closing...
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    • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
      Originally Posted by vndnbrgj View Post

      It is something I am considering...
      But I will have to see how my two current projects turn out.

      I wouldn't mind the 4 callers and a trainer to just set appts for me.
      Then I could just be closing...

      uggggg... if they are on the phone .. close em..

      no offense.. i just feel multi contacts and or road trip is just a waste of time.

      Actually .. just think about it for one second.. ( not that i am trying to change your MO )

      if you can handle everything over the phone.. you save time.. and money...
      and who can you pass that onto ? ... your customer...

      I know everyone has there own way... and everyone thinks theirs is the best....
      i just felt obligated to mention my thought on the subject.

      However... if you decide to hire app setters and need help... let me know
      i will be more then happy to help out if i can .

      You are one of the strait up guys around here...
      i would be more then happy to help you out.
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      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
        Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

        uggggg... if they are on the phone .. close em..

        no offense.. i just feel multi contacts and or road trip is just a waste of time.

        Actually .. just think about it for one second.. ( not that i am trying to change your MO )
        From my experience (remember, this is in home sales), it's far better to be the same guy making the appointment as selling. It's also far better to be the same guy closing as presenting. I'm done phone closing, (with someone else presenting) and it's effective, but not nearly as effective as when I did the whole thing.

        One of the best ways to kill a sale is to break the continuity.
        Changing venues or salesperson stops the momentum of the sale. In huge numbers it is more efficient, but each individual attempt at a sale will suffer.

        One of the stupidest things I did when I started selling in people's homes, is do the entire presentation in the living room, and them move to the kitchen table for the closing. It was like a slap in their face while you scream "Look out, I'm about to close you!"
        Staying in the same spot, increased my sales by about 25% alone.

        And the reason I liked setting my own appointments was that;
        1) I knew exactly what was said and so they couldn't lie about our appointment
        2) Rapport had been started already. New person = starting over establishing rapport.

        Anyway, if you haven't experienced all of this, it's kind of counter intuitive.

        At one time I had a real overabundance of appointments. I just couldn't run them all. So my remedy was to have a phone person call my referrals. She said exactly what I told her, and did a good job. But she quickly went through my list killing any lead that wasn't ready to see me. Me? I sell, I just don't know if I can help it. Her? You can say the same words without selling.

        Like Ken said: If they are ready, close them. People don't stay in heat for long. And once it's gone, it doesn't come back.
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        • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

          One of the best ways to kill a sale is to break the continuity.
          There are a few exceptions to that rule.

          One of them, in my eyes the most important one, is when you need
          a second voice for credibility or to help close the deal.

          Example:

          ( prospect ) I just cant do ( $ Amount ) today.
          ( rep ) well what can you do today?
          ( prospect ) i can do half
          ( rep) i cant authorize half, ill get fired.

          So if your telling me if i go ask my boss if i can get you started
          right now, for ( $ Amount ) you ready to get started today ?

          ( prospect ) yes
          ( rep) I am going to put you on hold for a min .. wish me luck

          Now we put them on hold for a few minutes.

          1 of 2 things happen. the rep gets a TO and they get on and close the deal

          or the more seasoned vets get's back on and says... ok we can do that
          and just close's the deal.

          putting them on hold for a few minutes breaks up the continuity.... on purpose

          So does putting on a TO,

          They generally get on the phone like this,

          Hi, name .. this is ( reps manager ) he says you want to get
          started today and your only issue is the cost, is that correct.

          ( prospect ) yes

          ( TO ) Let me ask you, how far apart are we ?

          They aren't expecting a second voice. It throws them for a moment
          breaking up continuity, and then builds credibility by saying the word manager.
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          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
            Ken;
            Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes!

            Of course, it's useful to have a second "authority figure" helping with the close. I did it for years. I held an entire days training class (for one of my vacuum companies) on how to come to the phone and ask for help. Remember, these are in home sales.

            I would occasionally have a rep in someone's home call me, I would ask them to ask the couple a question...and the idiot would hold his hand over the receiver so "they could talk in private"! I would have to explain that I couldn't help them if I couldn't hear the customer. Oh well.

            I absolutely made it mandatory that they called me (if I wasn't in a home myself)...no matter what. It was amazing what I could do to get a sale.

            I told my reps "No matter what they say. No matter the condition, no matter how impossible the sale is...you must call me...before you pack up to leave...while you are in front of the customer...and you answer my questions." Because of phone closing, their closing % would be 40% instead of 15%.

            I'll be up front here. More than 99% of my reps never got good enough that this phone closing didn't help. Great phone closing means (this isn't for you Ken) that you know what the people are thinking without seeing them, you know what the rep is thinking, and you have to figure out the best way...in a few seconds...to solve whatever problem exists. Very rare.

            I would grind my teeth as a rep would tell me...in front of the prospect that "They can't get it right now because.." and they would rattle of some slight problem that could easily be solved. Then I would solve the problem, and the rep would come back to the office and say "Wow! You sure pulled a rabbit out of your hat!" Harder to phone close when the customer and the rep are fighting you.

            Anyway, my post above was assuming that the rep was the smartest guy in the office. Have I called my office talking to my wife or the book keeper? Absolutely. And I would play all parts on the phone...My boss, me, the person putting me on hold. The only reason I didn't call "Time And Temperature" is that eventually you would get a loud Beeping sound because the phone was off the hook.

            Eventuallly I trained two reps (out of hundreds, over the years) that I would trust to help phone close, or talk to a customer that I was selling. Phone closing is like spinning plates, while on a unicycle, in the dark, with the wind blowing. It takes great clarity and concentration.

            The last few years I sold, I sold alone. Hiring and training got to be too much of a drain emotionally. So I didn't do "Fake phone closing" anymore.

            I would just make sure I was talking to people that I had a great chance of selling, so the skill kind of got forgotten. That's why I didn't mention it.

            As a side note, a few times (with an advanced rep on the line) I would be rude with the prospect so that it would be the rep and the prospect against me. And they bought as a way to spite me.

            I only used this idea when it was the only way I could think of to get the sale, and I had an advanced rep on the phone. That kind of techniquie would ruin a new rep.

            I can see where some of this would be different if the rep is with you and not with the prospect, in their home, but the principles are the same.

            Oh, and they had to call me Mr. Whitacre when they called in. And even if I answered the phone, they had to ask to speak to me. Phone closing was selling, but also a lot of theater, which I didn't enjoy.


            I can tell you your phone closing example, that you've done it a lot.

            Good discussion. I hope it helps someone.
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            • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

              I'll be up front here. More than 99% of my reps never got good enough that this phone closing didn't help. Great phone closing means (this isn't for you Ken) that you know what the people are thinking without seeing them, you know what the rep is thinking, and you have to figure out the best way...in a few seconds...to solve whatever problem exists. Very rare.
              yes.. rare, but teachable.

              at least in my experience.

              but then again, i was tought by .. "IMHO" the best.

              Claude, i am glad you participate here in WF,
              there are not too many people that truly understand what john, myself and a few others
              talk about...

              i am glad you are here, and i hope, some how.. it helps you as well.
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  • Profile picture of the author vndnbrgj
    Well, I was just thinking of how I could use them with my current biz model which is consulting.
    So, I currently set appts. and then present later when I know I can get an hour of their time.

    I would have to create a seperate biz model to use something like this.
    I like the idea of a directory or something simple.
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  • Profile picture of the author mugwande
    I have found this topic very interesting and i to say thanks because i have learn't something here.
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  • Profile picture of the author snakez0r
    I am trying to see how this can be classed as employing on a "shoe string budget" if you are required to have several trainers/sales managers to complete the process?

    How much total $$ would you be paying per employee trained from start to finish? Wages etc.

    This seems like a system that would work really well for a medium sized business, but I can't see it being practical for your average Warrior.
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    • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
      Originally Posted by snakez0r View Post

      I am trying to see how this can be classed as employing on a "shoe string budget" if you are required to have several trainers/sales managers to complete the process?

      How much total $$ would you be paying per employee trained from start to finish? Wages etc.

      This seems like a system that would work really well for a medium sized business, but I can't see it being practical for your average Warrior.
      ====================================

      If you need to do it on even more of a budget.

      Hire and teach the trainer.. .. then hire the sales people / trainers
      one at a time... slower to grow.. but nothing is wrong with that.

      =====================================

      I never said it was for the average warrior, i suspect the average
      warrior will never read it.

      I specifically wrote it for 4 people, mostly because i am lazy
      and did not want to piece meal it over and over via skype

      and only because i was asked about it.
      they will find it.. when and if they are ever truly ready.

      I applaud your honesty .. it is refreshing..
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      • Profile picture of the author snakez0r
        Haha, I applaud your honesty too Ken

        What are the typical costs involved training a newbie from day 1 to week 8? You seem like the kind of guy that would know his numbers!

        (I am genuinely interested)
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    @ Claude and Ken,

    To me, alot of being able to read peoples thoughts on the phone has to do with making thousands of calls - If its worth it to you to do that.

    After awhile you begin to see the same group of ten people over and over and over...and while they dont know you, you come to know THEM.

    You know that x type person is going to think z when you say y, and that they will turn around if you say q

    Then you BARELY have to rebut as long as you pay attention to their energy. You can guide it.

    It comes from caring enough about mastering your art that you are willing to do it thousands of times, and learn to recognize the behavior of those ten characters...thats when you are a JEDI

    The other thing you can do is listen to peoples advice and not argue with it, who ARE that...but just as few people are willing to listen, as they are to make thousands of sales calls.

    I asked my brother, who wasnt known for being a rocket scientist before he accomplished MLM success "Whats the difference between you and a failure".

    He said "I was just dumb enough to listen to exactly what the experienced people told me I should do, and I didnt add anything or try to re invent the wheel".
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      @ Claude and Ken,

      To me, alot of being able to read peoples thoughts on the phone has to do with making thousands of calls - If its worth it to you to do that.

      After awhile you begin to see the same group of ten people over and over and over...and while they dont know you, you come to know THEM.

      You know that x type person is going to think z when you say y, and that they will turn around if you say q

      Then you BARELY have to rebut as long as you pay attention to their energy. You can guide it.

      It comes from caring enough about mastering your art that you are willing to do it thousands of times, and learn to recognize the behavior of those ten characters...thats when you are a JEDI
      John; You call it "guiding energy", I call it "guiding intention". The words a prospect says are just a result of the direction they are going emotionally. Once you see past the words you see the direction they are headed. You can slightly redirect their momentum, and the rapport you established will gently guide them to follow your movement. I know you already know this, I just wanted to sound impressive.:rolleyes:

      And what Ken said earlier about a second voice providing authority certainly rings true. Occasionally, when I was phone closing, I would talk to the customer. But only if I thought the rep would screw it up on their own. And sometimes I would hear the prospect say something that took a little time to overcome (more than just a simple counteroffer), I would get them on the phone to explain it.

      I'm beginning to think about a small phone room (maybe 4 or 5) to sell tickets to my seminars. And I know a few marketing gurus that have phone reps selling $5,000 Bootcamp tickets to people who just ordered an inexpensive report. Right now, the only cold calling I do is to meeting planners. You guys are getting my juices flowing. And of course, I'm transferring all this to my personal selling. good stuff all around.
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      • Profile picture of the author sandalwood
        Wowee zowee bat people this is good stuff. We just merged our agency w/an insurance company out of CA making us the NV Directors. Daddy Warbucks (the money behind the new company) told us he expected no more than 2 or 3 people to move out of CA to come up here and expected us to hire all the new agents.

        We've done that before but what a PITA. These people walk in expecting us to make the appt, do the selling and write them a check. Even the licensed folks we interviewed. The mindset seems to be what are you the employer gonna do for me the new kid. It sure wasn't that way when I started in this biz.

        I am only speaking of our experience. You guys obviously have/had different experiences. I can't wait for the doors to open next week and our first gang of newbies to come in.

        Most of them want a job until they find out they have to work. They then leave and go look someplace else. Maybe we are making a mistake in telling them we expect some production and should just let them collect a draw against commish every month.

        Geez, I didn't give that any thought till now. It is our fault and I didn't even realize it.

        Anybody want a job in Northern Nevada collecting a check while we do the work?

        As I said, good stuff Ken.

        Tom
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    • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      To me, alot of being able to read peoples thoughts on the phone has to do with making thousands of calls - If its worth it to you to do that.

      After awhile you begin to see the same group of ten people over and over and over...and while they dont know you, you come to know THEM.
      I might not be able to explain things as eloquently as you ...

      but i do know, if you pound the phones for a year or so solid.

      at the end of a year, you will be a god among men.

      i am not trying to be sacrilegious, i am trying to say you will have seen
      and heard everything. .. and every possible angle.

      it sorta gives you a sixth sense.

      you can see , hear, and grasp the BS... before it ever leaves their lips..

      that is an edge... a real bona fide edge..

      one that turns players into kings ... of industry.

      ( cough cough ... Nathan )
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      • Profile picture of the author Marvin Johnston
        Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

        ... but i do know, if you pound the phones for a year or so solid. at the end of a year, you will be a god among men.
        That is a great statement. And it applies equally to anyone who gets out there and DOES SOMETHING.

        Of course, it also assumes they don't just do a years worth of their first day .

        Marvin
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  • Profile picture of the author Rearden
    Wow. This information in this thread is so great I almost feel like repackaging it, selling it as a WSO, and disappearing when people start asking for a refund because they discover the "Search" function.

    "ALMOST"...
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    • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
      Originally Posted by Rearden View Post

      Wow. This information in this thread is so great I almost feel like repackaging it, selling it as a WSO, and disappearing when people start asking for a refund because they discover the "Search" function.

      "ALMOST"...
      I don't think people actually use the search function,
      i would be willing to bet you a Buck, that you could get away with it... almost
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  • Profile picture of the author dnjoseph1
    Shout out to the OP for starting a great thread filled with so much value!

    I started with this strategy approximately a year ago. I found a local call center who "specialized" in cold calling and lead generation. They were to set appointments for me to go in and close. I had 2 ladies making my calls. They worked for 20 hours each week. This went on for 2 months. They generated 22 appointments for me. Horrible considering they talked to hundreds of business owners.

    I stopped in one day on a whim to drop off some paperwork, and to my surprise here's what I saw:

    1. Both of them had phone books calling from them (I provided them with phone numbers for specific niches)
    2. They were jumping from section to section to section in the phonebook while calling
    3. They weren't using scripts provided - instead they "were going with the flow"
    4. They were saying things that clearly wasn't true (I went in for one appointment and this guys started to ask me about his free advertising? Turns out they told him I would offer free advertising on a trial basis. Total BS)

    Needless to say I fired these guys (gals). And that ended my stint in cold calling. I'd love to pick this back up and totally outsource this whole process.
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  • Profile picture of the author 300SMG
    This an absolutely priceless thread. It can be tweaked and conformed to just about any sales type of position needed. Thank you to the OP as well as the replies afterwards.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    I would also add to what Ken is saying that , in several telemarketing rooms I have found that its hard for people to make the jump into credit card closing, and a TO works great.

    It has been the solution ALOT of times for me in piloting different programs.

    A: It takes the pressure off of the telemarketer to close...they dont have to gear down from pitching and being the prospects best friend to asking them for money.

    B: It takes the pressure off the closer, because they come on like an order taker, not a salesman. In fact I have always used low performing sales people as closers because its best if a closer has little personality and acts like a telephone operator with no agenda.

    C: Its good for the prospect because they think you are more legit since you have dedicated "processing people" and you dont just allow any random telemarketer to take their billing information.

    At the end of a call the telemarketer simply says "Okay thats about all I need from here... Now Bob, Im not authorized to take your billing information over the phone, but if you will hold just for a second I will transfer you to our processing department and they will take care o0f you and get you off the phone as quickly as possible okay? Great. Please hold".

    Then the telemarketer transfers the call to closer

    Closer picks up and says

    "Hi Mr. Brown, this is Dan from processing?"

    You doin okay today?

    Great.

    Mr. Brown it looks like you are going to be going with our xxx package today is that correct?

    Great, well I will try to get you off the phone as quickly as possible, this portion of the call btw may be recorded for both your protection and ours is that okay? Great.

    Im sure cindy covered this with you, but just to recap your total for getting started today is going to come to $99.95..., and we will just be billing you $9,99 per month after that, you can cancel at any time.

    Is that what you understood?

    Great.

    Now before we close Im going to give you a number you can call if you have any concerns or questions after our conversation have you got a pen handy?

    Okay, that number is going to be _______, and like I said you can call us anytime. If Im not personally available to help you, one of our friendly represetatives will be glad to answer any questions you may have.

    Now as far as billing goes we prefer to do all billing electronically via visa mastercard, or check by phone. Which of those will you be using today?

    Great have you got that in front of you...?

    And so on and so forth....

    The TO is just pretty much an order taker.

    I cant stress enough how this has turned several slow performing programs for me into winners that worked like clock work, when telemarketers had trouble closing credit cards, this changed it all!

    Its an easy going close and works for alot of reasons that Im not even listing here...point is that it works.

    Usually when Im piloting a new idea, we dont even transfer calls... I pick a telemarketer to test it with, tell the telemarketer to mute the phone when it comes time to transfer, then I jump in their seat, take it off mute, and go on with the closing pitch.

    If the program starts working we set up the dialer for transfers and do a TO department.

    Ive never had it not work.

    -JD.
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      John; That's completely different from what I thought the closer was doing.
      In your example (I've had plenty of those calls), I assumed that they were with the home office to guarantee that everything was clear and that there was no miss-representation. Just keeping the troops honest.

      Awesome script. I'm learning so much. Thank you.
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      • Profile picture of the author John Durham
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        John; That's completely different from what I thought the closer was doing.
        In your example (I've had plenty of those calls), I assumed that they were with the home office to guarantee that everything was clear and that there was no miss-representation. Just keeping the troops honest.

        Awesome script. I'm learning so much. Thank you.
        I believe that perception is precisely why it works Claude, among a couple of other reasons, but thats the main one. All I can say is that it DOES... Im not stretching it when I say that at least in 4-5 different instances, when I was piloting something, and the telemarketers werent getting it with a one call close, a TO system has been the answer to getting the machine going.

        Im enjoying your contributions as well!
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      • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        John; That's completely different from what I thought the closer was doing.
        In your example (I've had plenty of those calls), I assumed that they were with the home office to guarantee that everything was clear and that there was no miss-representation. Just keeping the troops honest.

        Awesome script. I'm learning so much. Thank you.
        Our closers are a bit different from johns.

        But at the same time they pretty much the same.

        Let me attempt to explain.

        First no one makes it onto the main floor with out being able to close
        their own deals, if they can only sell by using a TO we don't want them.
        That might sound harsh, or maybe it sounds dumb, but every
        decision here is based on numbers ... and our numbers say if you
        cannot independently close, we wind up losing money.

        Now as far as the TO's go, yeah they are glorified order takers...
        but they aren't. 99% of the time when a TO is called it is about the money,
        So their job is to reduce the price, or split the price or work
        out a payment plan in a way that does not lose credibility.

        What they aren't allowed to do is re pitch the prospect.
        Sometimes they reps get lazy and don't really have them tied down
        and committed before calling the TO in, when that happens,
        the TO's are instructed to hand the call back over to the rep. ... not to repitch.

        Not that they cant, but its a numbers thing, if all the TO's are tied
        up pitching, when some one really needs one, they wont be available.

        Our TO's are semi management... sorta. what i mean is this.
        Some of them want to be a manager, but they are a TO for now.
        Some are just burnt out, all of them are fairly aggressive cocky
        S.O.B's which is how we want them. They swagger around here
        like they own the place. Personally i find it rather funny.

        Besides TO ing, they run interference between compliance and the floor
        manager, they make sure the button ups are doing there job
        ( laziest group in the house ) and they help with anything any of the managers need.

        Our button up's are our real order takers.

        They are the ones that say ( we are recording this for your protection and ours )
        and then confirm price and payment information.

        Including getting them to confirm that all sales are final and there are no refunds
        ( which btw doesn't help at all with the merchant provider ) we do it any way.

        Some times they will kick with that statement... and that is what we want.
        They weren't sold properly or they would have become a charge back.
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

          Besides TO ing, they run interference between compliance and the floor
          manager, they make sure the button ups are doing there job
          ( laziest group in the house ) and they help with anything any of the managers need.

          Our button up's are our real order takers.

          The are the ones that say ( we are recording this for your protection and ours )
          and then confirm price and payment information.

          Including getting them to confirm that all sales are final and there are no refunds
          ( which btw doesn't help at all with the merchant provider ) we do it any way.

          Some times they will kick with that statement... and that is what we want.
          They weren't sold properly or they would have become a charge back.
          Hugely helpful. So is the main difference between you and John (as far as the closer is concerned) that you have closers and button ups as two separate functions, and John combines them? Or are you just calling the same people TOs and Button Ups?

          Both your and John's last post were very illuminating. Thank you both.



          Ken; "Besides TOing, they run interference between compliance and the floor
          manager, they make sure the button ups are doing there job
          ( laziest group in the house ) and they help with anything any of the managers need."

          That's a little confusing to me. Is Compliance another function, or a completely different department. And I understand that you are talking to a tiny audience here, so I know there will be a point where it gets a little too involved.
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          • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            Hugely helpful. So is the main difference between you and John (as far as the closer is concerned) that you have closers and button ups as two separate functions, and John combines them? Or are you just calling the same people TOs and Button Ups?

            Both your and John's last post were very illuminating. Thank you both.



            Ken; "Besides TOing, they run interference between compliance and the floor
            manager, they make sure the button ups are doing there job
            ( laziest group in the house ) and they help with anything any of the managers need."

            That's a little confusing to me. Is Compliance another function, or a completely different department. And I understand that you are talking to a tiny audience here, so I know there will be a point where it gets a little too involved.
            Our TO's are separate from our button ups.

            Our compliance ( also separate ) consists of a group of retired woman...
            they are fiercely loyal.. almost too loyal, if we did not have
            someone reigning them in , they would be bugging the heck out
            of the managers... also we have a pbx system with a "kill switch"

            I don't know how the rules work elsewhere, but in florida, if a rep
            says something really stupid... lets use a bold face lie as an example.

            the compliance can literally kill the call, making it incomplete
            therefore saving us from liability.. that's fl law, incomplete calls cant
            be used against you, because you never had a chance to fix
            the verbal mistake.

            well before we had the TO's overlooking the compliance
            they were nuking calls left and right, and everyone was getting written
            up... if it was up to them ( compliance ) everyone would be fired.

            that's what i meant about the TO's running interference...
            if they want to nuke a call, now they have to call in a TO
            and let them listen for a few minutes and then the TO makes the decision.
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  • Profile picture of the author ownergolan
    Great thread! few questions for you..

    Would it be much to ask what exactly are you selling, and why did you come around to that?

    also, what about lead generation? are you getting those list from brokers or just search?

    do you instruct the callers to focus on a specific niche, or they spread around ?

    most importantly, what about customer service and the actual work? do you open up a small division that handles the process of making the product ( i asuume web services) and delivering it, then also handles any problems from the clients?

    Cheers and thanx for the great insights.
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    Ill put in work, and watch my status escalate"
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    I agree that a TO shouldnt be pitching. If they cant take the order as is, then they let it go and its on the salesperson. By the time a call gets to a TO it should be ready to close.... I dont encourage TO's to pitch either. If it dont come easy, it aint sold. Let it go. Otherwise they get confused in their roles, and they lose that mundane "operator" style that make a good TO. If a TO has to pitch then the salesperson is taking advantage sending them wood, and I dont encourage them to pitch it.
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    • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      I agree that a TO shouldnt be pitching. If they cant take the order as is, then they let it go and its on the salesperson. By the time a call gets to a TO it should be ready to close.... I dont encourage TO's to pitch either. If it dont come easy, it aint sold. Let it go. Otherwise they get confused in their roles, and they lose that mundane "operator" style that make a good TO. If a TO has to pitch then the salesperson is taking advantage sending them wood, and I dont encourage them to pitch it.
      I find it very interesting how similar and how different you and I do things.
      This conversation has been a real eye opener for me.

      Glad you chimed in brotha
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      • Profile picture of the author John Durham
        Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

        I find it very interesting how similar and how different you and I do things.
        This conversation has been a real eye opener for me.

        Glad you chimed in brotha

        I view it like this Ken.

        One can lose weight by eating nothing but meat...

        One can also lose weight by cutting out all meat and only eating salad.

        One can lose weight by balancing salad and white meat.

        All of those types of diets work, but they all operate on different systems. I think its about operating systems.

        One room I had I let everyone TO to me in training, but then after training they had to do their own closes, and I only took a TO if absolutely necessary... So I believe in everything you are saying too. I dont really think of this in terms of comparisons.

        I dont disagree with one bit of the system you describe. There are different operating systems. I dont really have a "way" of doing things... I just do whatever it takes to make something work. I do it differently on different projects, and/or programs...

        For instance on your own program you have systems in place that work synergistically with the way you generate leads... During times when I used self generated leads I used systems that were synergistic with that.

        So there really isnt one way thats better than another when it comes to professionals as long as goals are being met... However a professionals way IS better than a failures way... So Alot of the advice around here is BS, but when it comes to two people like you and myself.... its just two people talking about the different paths to the result.

        I dont really do things differently from you, I just do different things for different projects.
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        • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
          Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

          .
          I wasn't suggesting that one way was better then then other.

          Your way over there, i am way over here, we have never met
          and our fundamentals are exactly the same.

          How did that come to be? I find that extremely interesting.

          I also see we do many things exactly the same, and others
          slightly different ... i am guessing the areas we deviate on are due
          to personal experience.

          I am weird, i don't believe in coincidences, and i am always
          scrutinizing what others do ... in order to improve.


          Originally Posted by vndnbrgj View Post

          I want to thank you again for putting all this out here.
          I really like the idea, just wasn't sure how I could make it work without creating a new system.

          So, like any other nut, I went on a cold calling spree!
          Figuring out the best model for me, that will enable me to use it.
          Just got off the phone with a company that offers a product that fits this perfectly!

          So, now I can look at implementation. I can't thank you enough!
          Thanks to John and Claude for their input as well.
          anytime.
          Glad it helps you out, the people i originally posted this info for
          haven't even said anything... so i am glad some one got some thing out of this.
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  • Profile picture of the author vndnbrgj
    I want to thank you again for putting all this out here.
    I really like the idea, just wasn't sure how I could make it work without creating a new system.

    So, like any other nut, I went on a cold calling spree!
    Figuring out the best model for me, that will enable me to use it.
    Just got off the phone with a company that offers a product that fits this perfectly!

    So, now I can look at implementation. I can't thank you enough!
    Thanks to John and Claude for their input as well.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    @Ken

    You arent weird my friend.
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  • Profile picture of the author snakez0r
    Would I be safe to assume that you don't know how much this hiring exercise costs on a per-employee basis?
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    • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
      Originally Posted by snakez0r View Post

      Would I be safe to assume that you don't know how much this hiring exercise costs on a per-employee basis?
      you would be wrong.

      easy math. min wage is what 7.25?

      times 8.

      and i said they have to get a min of one sale in order to move on to the
      next set of training... so safe to assume 1 sale per week

      minus the fact two weeks n the first set.. plus the classroom .. no sales there


      so 8 minus 2 = 6.

      so 8 weeks min wage. Plus min of 6 sales. at the bottome of the sliding scale.

      see ?

      easy math.

      BTW, my math really doesn't matter... what matters is yours.
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    • Profile picture of the author vndnbrgj
      Originally Posted by snakez0r View Post

      Would I be safe to assume that you don't know how much this hiring exercise costs on a per-employee basis?
      Cost is relative....

      What is his result???

      Highly trained professionals bringing in profits on a continual basis...

      So Snake.... How much would you pay for the same?
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      • Profile picture of the author snakez0r
        Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

        you would be wrong.

        easy math. min wage is what 7.25?

        times 8.

        and i said they have to get a min of one sale in order to move on to the
        next set of training... so safe to assume 1 sale per week

        minus the fact two weeks n the first set.. plus the classroom .. no sales there


        so 8 minus 2 = 6.

        so 8 weeks min wage. Plus min of 6 sales. at the bottome of the sliding scale.

        see ?

        easy math.

        BTW, my math really doesn't matter... what matters is yours.

        I was coming more from the standpoint that you wrote this advice as a model that YOU USE, and therefore would easily be able to say "This method costs a total of $X per employee hired" and you would have worked this out already because it is an easy equation once you have the results.

        I could make up profits and losses based on forecasts and assumptions, but you gave me the impression that you ALREADY have the proven results.
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        • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
          Originally Posted by snakez0r View Post

          I was coming more from the standpoint that you wrote this advice as a model that YOU USE, and therefore would easily be able to say "This method costs a total of per employee hired" and you would have worked this out already because it is an easy equation once you have the results.

          I could make up profits and losses based on forecasts and assumptions, but you gave me the impression that you ALREADY have the proven results.
          I see what you want.
          But that's not going to happen.

          Not now, not ever.

          First, you will never see me talking about money.
          What i make, or don't make, or even what i spend.
          Its too personal, and this is a public forum.

          Hopefully what i just said did not come off as rude.
          That was not my intent.
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  • Profile picture of the author soupstock
    try fiverr, there are tons of young students willing to make you a buck and help you sell things, i personally have gigs on there, but its rude to spam!
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  • Profile picture of the author TheyCallMeBE
    Seriously????

    Originally Posted by soupstock

    try fiverr, there are tons of young students willing to make you a buck and help you sell things, i personally have gigs on there, but its rude to spam!
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    • Profile picture of the author TheyCallMeBE
      Anyway, maybe JD can chime in on this...

      Would this method differ for building a workforce through a virtual call center? I'm not ready to make the investment in an office to build my call center but I have about $4k to play with which would probably be better for building a small team for a virtual call center. Are there certain things I should look out for by applying this same method online?

      I know for certain that a strong call center is one of the most sure fire ways of making great money. My main concern has always been employee turnover. This method looks great for weeding out the flakes.
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  • Profile picture of the author danysh
    This is an awesome thread. I am glad I have found it.
    I don't know if I will be going through the full system, but I am just trying to find people that can open a phone room for a company I work with.
    I thought of starting here rather than just Google it. Getting a solid advice from one of you guys will be worth much more than Google results
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