19 replies
These tips apply just as much to those of who you are applying for jobs as selling or buy something.

* When negotiating anything, the person is going to give you a number that is usually a RANGE of prices that they'll be prepared to pay. You negotiate around the edges of this range to get the maximum value per sale.

If they have $3,000 budgeted, you can expect them to be able to afford between $3,400 to $3,800+.

This is speaking strictly in terms of numbers and not qualifying the price with any sort of value, which can manipulate the price even more.

* When buying, low ball the price. If a car is priced at $1,000, offer $700. You will usually get the car for somewhere in the middle. Don't wait for them to make an offer, go first.

* When selling, HIGH ball the price. This is where it's advantageous to go first so you can anchor the conversation around a high dollar amount and then work your way down. Say you need to make a bottom figure of $700, then quote $1,500+

You are anticipating that the prospect will want to negotiate in advance, they walk away with a discount and you get more than you budgeted for.

If you went in at your minimum you will be forced to sell at below cost if they want to negotiate.

* This goes without saying, but never accept their first offer. Especially in applying for a job. This can make you look very bad. Recruiters have a budget assigned for GOOD candidates and are usually quite flexible in bending the rules if it makes sense.

* Make concessions on small details for more leverage on what you REALLY want. Pick one or two details of the deal that you don't really care about and exaggerate them into massive problems. Make these details the centre of your talk and reluctantly let them persuade you into giving in to their terms.
Give them the perception that they have won the psychological battle of the talk and give them ground early on.

This will pump their ego a bit (especially if you get them to convince you) and will lower their defences around the more important details. They will feel the need to 'meet you half way', and reciprocate by making concessions of their own around important things like salary and benefits.

* The person who mentions price first usually loses. This is why on most job applications there is an 'expected salary' column or is commonly one of the first questions a recruiter will ask you. They want to know what your range is, and once you do you give away your hand.

They do this so they can justify the salary back to you and eliminates negotiation before it can happen.

The best position to be in is knowing what they are prepared to pay whilst not giving away your expected salary.

Here are my best tips so far. Does anyone have anything to add?
#negotiation #tips
  • Profile picture of the author PaulintheSticks
    Originally Posted by PanteraIM View Post

    These tips apply just as much to those of who you are applying for jobs as selling or buy something.

    * When negotiating anything, the person is going to give you a number that is usually a RANGE of prices that they'll be prepared to pay. You negotiate around the edges of this range to get the maximum value per sale.

    If they have $3,000 budgeted, you can expect them to be able to afford between $3,400 to $3,800+.

    This is speaking strictly in terms of numbers and not qualifying the price with any sort of value, which can manipulate the price even more.

    * When buying, low ball the price. If a car is priced at $1,000, offer $700. You will usually get the car for somewhere in the middle. Don't wait for them to make an offer, go first.

    * When selling, HIGH ball the price. This is where it's advantageous to go first so you can anchor the conversation around a high dollar amount and then work your way down. Say you need to make a bottom figure of $700, then quote $1,500+

    You are anticipating that the prospect will want to negotiate in advance, they walk away with a discount and you get more than you budgeted for.

    If you went in at your minimum you will be forced to sell at below cost if they want to negotiate.

    * This goes without saying, but never accept their first offer. Especially in applying for a job. This can make you look very bad. Recruiters have a budget assigned for GOOD candidates and are usually quite flexible in bending the rules if it makes sense.

    * The person who mentions price first usually loses. This is why on most job applications there is an 'expected salary' column or is commonly one of the first questions a recruiter will ask you. They want to know what your range is, and once you do you give away your hand.

    They do this so they can justify the salary back to you and eliminates negotiation before it can happen.

    The best position to be in is knowing what they are prepared to pay whilst not giving away your expected salary.

    Here are my best tips so far. Does anyone have anything to add?
    Everyone negotiates differently and some don't negotiate at all. What's worked best for me is trying to get a good read on the person before starting the negotiation. Ask lots of questions. Are they a wheeler-dealer or a straight shooter? Many times high or low balling is not a good idea. My advice is to get a feel for who you're dealing with first.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8428376].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
    I don't negotiate anything especially on pricing. To me it tends to weaken my positioning.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8429829].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author PanteraIM
      Originally Posted by Rus Sells View Post

      I don't negotiate anything especially on pricing. To me it tends to weaken my positioning.
      Great thought. Thanks for posting.
      Signature

      you cant hold no groove if you ain't got no pocket.

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8430521].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Aaron Doud
      Originally Posted by Rus Sells View Post

      I don't negotiate anything especially on pricing. To me it tends to weaken my positioning.
      I think for positioning this is the way to go. You can offer discounts and such to get business but the price is the price. At least among American this works well. In some cultures where haggling is important it wouldn't work as well. But here I would suggest it myself for many businesses.

      Americans are used to paying the price listed with a few exceptions like cars and houses. But even with cars some brands basically have one price and that is that. Outside of a few small things like those everything else in America has one price and you buy it for that price if you want it.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8430537].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
        I am sensitive to how certain business deals go through based on cultural differences.

        In cultures where the price really isn't the price I never back off my price.

        Here's what I do. I usually know ahead of time I'll be dealing with some one who's cultural background is going to indicate there will be some haggle going on.

        I effectively bypass the negotiations straight away by deciding what I want to give to them for "FREE" but ad that cost into the cost for the base service.

        Then I just outright tell them, here's what you're paying for and here's what you are getting for free for doing business with me today.

        They feel like they won and in a sense they did without going through the haggling process. It works like a charm and it communicates instantly to them that you understand their business culture and they respect you for it.

        Originally Posted by Aaron Doud View Post

        I think for positioning this is the way to go. You can offer discounts and such to get business but the price is the price. At least among American this works well. In some cultures where haggling is important it wouldn't work as well. But here I would suggest it myself for many businesses.

        Americans are used to paying the price listed with a few exceptions like cars and houses. But even with cars some brands basically have one price and that is that. Outside of a few small things like those everything else in America has one price and you buy it for that price if you want it.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8430592].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Aaron Doud
          Originally Posted by Rus Sells View Post

          I am sensitive to how certain business deals go through based on cultural differences.

          In cultures where the price really isn't the price I never back off my price.

          Here's what I do. I usually know ahead of time I'll be dealing with some one who's cultural background is going to indicate there will be some haggle going on.

          I effectively bypass the negotiations straight away by deciding what I want to give to them for "FREE" but ad that cost into the cost for the base service.

          Then I just outright tell them, here's what you're paying for and here's what you are getting for free for doing business with me today.

          They feel like they won and in a sense they did without going through the haggling process. It works like a charm and it communicates instantly to them that you understand their business culture and they respect you for it.
          I've done that a few times when selling RVs. You know before giving price they they need to win so you skip the back and forth while going straight to the loss. But I've also seen the people who just want to haggle. You can literally charge them more but as long as they think they went back and forth enough they will buy. For them it isn't about the price it is about the battle.

          I've misjudged that type a few times and been stuck in a defeated position and lost the sale because I couldn't haggle. Always a hard lesson for a salesman like myself who prides himself on reading people.

          The thing to remember is among the hagglers there are really two separate types. The one wants to win while the other wants to battle. In a sales environment where haggling is common if you have trained sales people the battle people can be your most profitable.

          When I hear things like....
          "I always get the best price."
          "I'm going to drive a hard bargain."
          "His pencil better be sharp."


          All statements like that say to me is ok you want to battle and that means i need to make more money to justify the extra time it takes to close. Talk to any vet in auto sales and he will tell you the same thing. The hagglers don't get the best price and often pay more than the lay downs do. Of course you provide value in the form of the battle that justifies the price.

          But if you ever see an article that tells you haggling is the way to get the best price on a car you can tell they have never been a true sales professional. IMO there is no worse way to try and get a low price. Low prices are saved for lay downs who you can get in and out in 10 mins and for those who you know will buy the real profit makers like extended warranties and do in house financing. And if you read between the lines you just figure out how to buy a new car for under true cost.

          Of course an environment like RVs (or cars) lends itself to people haggling. So my experence in this is different than most others here. With what most people here sell, holding fast to their price would work fine and likely would be the best choice.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8430831].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author PaulintheSticks
      Originally Posted by Rus Sells View Post

      I don't negotiate anything especially on pricing. To me it tends to weaken my positioning.
      That seems a little extreme. I think negotiation is a fundamental part of healthy human relations. No one can ever get everything they want. Nor should they expect to.

      Btw, that doesn't mean you should negotiate your prices in business.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8430617].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author HorseStall
    I think the MOST important thing is you have to know your bottom-line before you enter any negotiations. If you go in not knowing its likely it will move while negotiating ;-) If you have a firm bottom-line you know when to walk away.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8429849].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author misterme
    Originally Posted by PanteraIM View Post

    * When negotiating anything, the person is going to give you a number that is usually a RANGE of prices that they'll be prepared to pay. You negotiate around the edges of this range to get the maximum value per sale.

    If they have $3,000 budgeted, you can expect them to be able to afford between $3,400 to $3,800+.
    I always assume there's more than what the buyer mentions because I believe buyers have three prices in mind. One is the low price they heard somewhere from a year ago for a stripped down no frills widget made in china sold in a clearance sale type of price they hope to get, the next is the realistically-it'll-probably-be-more-around-$X-price and then there's the if-we-need-to-spend-more-to-get-what-we-really-want-we'll-pay-this price.

    But they're going to tell you only the first one.

    *When buying, low ball the price. If a car is priced at $1,000, offer $700. You will usually get the car for somewhere in the middle. Don't wait for them to make an offer, go first...

    * When selling, HIGH ball the price. This is where it's advantageous to go first...




    * The person who mentions price first usually loses.
    Hey, but you said to go first!!!

    In my edumaceted experience, the one who mentions price first has the advantage. Here's why:

    Let's say the Seller's price is $1000 and the Buyer has in mind to pay $700.

    It's simply easier to drop price down from $1000 rather than trying to bring the price up from $700.

    Here's a typical scenario which happens when the Buyer states price first.

    "I don't want to pay more than $700." Now the Seller has to work at bumping the price up. And that's a bit of work to bring it up another 50% more.

    So many Sellers say things like "let's split the difference. Make it $850." But the Buyer now says "Still too high."
    And how horrible is that because the Seller just gave a 15 per cent discount away and now has to give even more.

    Here's a typical scenario which happens when the Seller states price first.

    "The price is $1,000."

    The Buyer inwardly gulps thinking "oh. I was hoping for $700 but that isn't anywhere close. I have to go to my realistically-it'll-probably-be-more-around-$X-price."

    This automatically bumps the Buyer up closer to or at the Seller's price.

    (Of course the Buyer may say "No. I can only do $700. Not paying a cent more" And there are sales techniques to handle that but in the total absence of those techniques just to isolate who has the advantage mentioning price first, I'm overlooking what the skilled sales professional can do in this example.)

    But I don't negotiate my price. If you drop your price for your service it signals your price was over inflated and full of it. And it further signals your lower price is untrustworthy too. And that you're probably not to be trusted in general.

    So dropping price has to be corresponding to less service or product in exchange for that lower price to keep it equitable.

    Originally Posted by PanteraIM View Post

    Here are my best tips so far. Does anyone have anything to add?
    * Only agree to exchange like for like. For one big common example of that, never exchange a promise for an action. Buyer says give me a discount this time and I'll give you my business next time.

    Nuh uh. He's offering a promise, in exchange he wants an action. That's inequitable. If he offers a promise, YOU offer a promise: Seller counters with "Order this time at my price and when you order with me next time I'll give you the discount."
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8433573].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author internetmarketer1
    Right, when you keep a price, keep it. Do no let businesses hackle you down. That is just not the way it works, especially when you have to outsource and pay others to do the SEO or anything that tit is you are outsourcing.

    It is vital, however, to try offering them some discounts if you are starting out, but if they take advantage of you, then it just isn't right.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8434036].message }}
  • {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8439934].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author natebunger
    Negotiating is good except for the price. You can offer discounts at times but the price should not be changed. There are people who tend to abuse this and will negotiate every time they make a deal. I agree that it will weaken my positioning.
    Signature
    ##ATTENTION##

    Do You Hate Writing Sales Copy?

    I create killer copy for squeeze pages, video scripts, email auto-responders and sales pages. Click here to see reviews.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8442951].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    Suppose we are talking about websites and related services and the prospect has a "budget" of $4500.

    Then suppose we do a consultation and find out their goals and pain points and figure out that the better to best solutions for them will be a minimum investment of $8500, or the $10,000.00 option, or the $15,000 option. But, even the least expensive investment will bring them enough more business in the first months to pay for itself and continue bringing that return for several years.

    Think they might find at least $4000 more than their "budget"?
    Signature

    "If you think you're the smartest person in the room, then you're probably in the wrong room."

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8443199].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author misterme
      Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

      Suppose we are talking about websites and related services and the prospect has a "budget" of $4500.

      Then suppose we do a consultation and find out their goals and pain points and figure out that the better to best solutions for them will be a minimum investment of $8500, or the $10,000.00 option, or the $15,000 option. But, even the least expensive investment will bring them enough more business in the first months to pay for itself and continue bringing that return for several years.

      Think they might find at least $4000 more than their "budget"?

      It's possible, yes, though you have other options to seal these deals.

      Of course I'm assuming your prospective clients are sold on the idea. Because it's not the price that's going to sell them on the idea.

      So for example, if they say they can't afford the 8500, try offering a payment plan to see if they mean they truly can't swing it or just can't do it all at once.

      Another thing would be a mini something service at about 4000 that gets their feet wet and gets them a measurable bump in business and which ties in and can lead to you doing a $4000 upgrade (or better) down the road. In other words the strategy is, get the client first, sell them later. It's the concept of customer acquisition is first priority instead of attempting to sell your top ticket items out of the gate because once you have the customer you can keep selling to them. Once they've made the purchase they're more likely to buy from you and buy bigger. So do what's needed to acquire a new customer.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8443335].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Aaron Doud
      Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

      Suppose we are talking about websites and related services and the prospect has a "budget" of $4500.

      Then suppose we do a consultation and find out their goals and pain points and figure out that the better to best solutions for them will be a minimum investment of $8500, or the $10,000.00 option, or the $15,000 option. But, even the least expensive investment will bring them enough more business in the first months to pay for itself and continue bringing that return for several years.

      Think they might find at least $4000 more than their "budget"?
      A couple things I have learned in the real world.

      For certain people the only thing that matters is the budget. So if you don't offer an option under their budget you won't even have a shot at upselling.

      Many business owners and managers simply don't care about ROI. Yes it would be in their interest to pay attention to it but most don't. Selling ROI may be great and if you can help show it to them it will help with your 2nd and 3rd sale to the company. But on the first one if you ignore the budget they simply will not hire you.

      They don't know you from Adam. They are not used to using ROI and likely never even have thought about it beyond the way TV and Newspapers BS it. So coming out and telling them why they should so a minimum of $8,500 or nearly their budget will not work. Now offering the $8,500 option is fine but one if not two of the options should be lower than their budget.

      The best way to sell them on the right product that costs more is to show them the one that meets their budget but not there needs. Don't show them that one and you will never make the sale.

      You should always offer them the correct product for their needs even if it is too much. In fact if you are sneaky you can build value into it is to hold it back like this.

      "Now that I have shown you a few options here which did you like best?"
      (If a more expensive option would be better they should choose the most expense under budget or one you showed just above budget).
      "Is there anything you wish was part of it that I did not have included"
      (They will list their desires, not the must haves but things you already spoke about that they had on their wish list)
      "When I was making up these proposals I actually made on that included everything on your wishlist. I knew budget was important so I put it off to the side and focused on these. (point to 3 you presented) And this one (likely the one they picked) is already a bit over the budget. So I knew it was best not even to bring it up."
      (they will likely ask to see it)
      "Oh I feel really bad now. I shouldn't have brought it up. It was just a draft. Nothing formatted like this. Just did it on a yellow note pad. Not even sure I brought it with. (fumble in your brief case) Ok here I found it. This I estimated to be about $8,500 worth of work. It had everything we spoke about and a few extras that in my experience will help get even more sales (or leads) for you."
      (lead them through it and what it has vs. the say $5,000 they like best)
      "I figured something like this I would bring up as an upgrade next year after you saw what the ones in your budget would do for you."
      (go to pull it away, they should stop you)
      "Oh.. Did you want to keep this for next year so you know what I will present as an upgrade then?"
      (likely will show interest in this today and be talking about how to make it happen. At this point you could make some other add on suggestions.)

      Now I haven't done this method myself with websites. But I have done it with RVs, Appliances, and other large ticket purchases like that. It's basically what I call "The Keep Away Method".

      You know that what they want to pay will not get them what they want. So during your presentations you focus on the good but also are very honest about what it doesn't have. Thus they will pick the one slightly above budget since you have set it up as the best "compromise" and a little over is no big deal.

      Now you actually talk about the one(s) that would fit all their needs and how you wish you could have shown them. But you're not that kind of sales person. You're not the type that tries to get people to spend more by showing them the best from the start and then trashing all the other options. You know the ______ will work great for them.

      They will ask to see the more expensive one(s). Once they want to it is open season. If they were sure they couldn't afford it they would show hesitation. But those who think they just might be able to afford it will want to see the "forbidden fruit" You kept it away and likely hinted at it. Maybe you even walked by it on the floor and said how you wish they had the budget for that.

      But you never let them truly see it. Even if they looked at it you only answered basic questions while leading them back to the ones that would fit the budget.

      That my friends is how you get a customer to beg you to take them out of their budget. I always appreciate when a salesman uses this and similar methods on me. It shows he respects my budget but also cares about getting me the best value. And the best value often costs more.

      If you show nothing but most expensive options they will think it is about what is in it for you not them.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8443384].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    In my example above, it does depend upon a number of things such as getting the prospect to see the value in what you do compared to the other vendors, getting the prospect to trust you and see you as being on their side to help them get what they want, determining if there is a fit between you two, your confidence and track record...

    Also, it depends upon your finances and if you can live without the deal. Or, if you decide you want to work with that prospect and offer smaller steps to get something going.

    Dan
    Signature

    "If you think you're the smartest person in the room, then you're probably in the wrong room."

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8443559].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Aaron Doud
    Agree completely sometimes you have to tell them you can't work with their budget. Or that even the basics won't be covered by it. I think on this forum too many people take any customer they get and that is not a good way to make money.

    It's why prices behind the scenes should be based on a $/hr basis.

    If what your business works for is $100/hr and the project will take 20 hours you would quote at least $2,000. If their budget is only $500 you might offer them a $500 solution but be clear to get the basics they want it will be $2,000.

    In those cases your lowest will be the for budget price and your target will be more but based on the basics. And of course you would still have at least one upsell of maybe $3k or $4k in this case.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8443764].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    Yeah, you want to work with quality, realistic clients and no more "Justin Nass" clients.

    As you sell on value, ROI, and position yourself, you don't just sell websites, you sell your business and marketing/advertising knowledge, skills, and abilities. Also, you sell your (or your teams) knowledge, skills, and abilities in design, website conversion, website navigation, graphic layout and art, website content, shopping carts that work, on page SEO, reputation management and plug ins, social media management plug ins...

    As Rus pointed out, you don't want to weaken your position by starting with price.
    His thread here lays it out very well: http://www.warriorforum.com/offline-...-your-ass.html

    This book (my new favorite that took me about a half hour to read) also lays it out very well:
    Breaking the Time Barrier

    Dan
    Signature

    "If you think you're the smartest person in the room, then you're probably in the wrong room."

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8444051].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Aaron Doud
    I haven't read that yet. I meant to convert it to kindle format so it was easier to read on my phone. Heard good things about it from a few people. Sounds like it is worth a read.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8444229].message }}

Trending Topics