can you beat a keyworded domain?

65 replies
  • SEO
  • |
im trying to rank for a certain keyword but the keyword already has the .com taken. i bought a domain and created a website in a related niche but it doesnt have the keyword in the domain, however the sites like 5 days old and on the 4th page of google.

ive built some good content and im getting around 40 visitors a day which isnt too bad, so my question is would i be able to out rank the keyworded domain with enough backlinks pointing to my site?
#beat #domain #keyworded
  • Profile picture of the author seoweb2000
    You need aged backlinks, so as your backlinks get older you will move up.
    Try doing social bookmarking your site from many different accts, dont spam and book mark internal pages too.
    Build blogs on blogger.com and wordpress.com, plus other Wp Mu sites and build backlinks to your site.
    Make sure to link out from your site to some high pr site in your niche
    Over time you will see results. gl
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2497139].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author itsHERO
      Originally Posted by seoweb2000 View Post

      You need aged backlinks, so as your backlinks get older you will move up.
      Try doing social bookmarking your site from many different accts, dont spam and book mark internal pages too.
      Build blogs on blogger.com and wordpress.com, plus other Wp Mu sites and build backlinks to your site.
      Make sure to link out from your site to some high pr site in your niche
      Over time you will see results. gl
      Thanks for the method!
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5150372].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author jclz3d
    Of course you can, with the right amount of off-site SEO you can beat any keyworded domain. The keyword domain is not the be all end all..
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2497166].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author dt1968
    Can you get the keyworded domain in .org or .net? That would make things easier for you although with enough links you can outrank the .com keyworded domain with your current site.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2497756].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author marketguy
    Originally Posted by kvnkane View Post

    im trying to rank for a certain keyword but the keyword already has the .com taken. i bought a domain and created a website in a related niche but it doesnt have the keyword in the domain, however the sites like 5 days old and on the 4th page of google.

    ive built some good content and im getting around 40 visitors a day which isnt too bad, so my question is would i be able to out rank the keyworded domain with enough backlinks pointing to my site?
    although it is possible, my advice would be to get a .com domain with the keyword in it. as an example, if you keywords are "blue wooden shoes" you could get a domain like bluewoodenshoesguide(dot)com. google does not care if you add a word.
    Signature


    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2497769].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author outwest
      Originally Posted by marketguy View Post

      although it is possible, my advice would be to get a .com domain with the keyword in it. as an example, if you keywords are "blue wooden shoes" you could get a domain like bluewoodenshoesguide(dot)com. google does not care if you add a word.
      this is totally untrue

      Google might look for kw in the URL, but unless its an EMD
      kw in the domain does not help at all

      even EMD the boost you get from them is not very much

      you think you can just take your main kw and add letters to it, words in front of it, in back of it, and google will boost you in the serps for that?

      I find that ludicrous, where is the proof of this
      this is taking EMD to a whole new level because the kind of domains you are creating are certainly NOT EMDs

      there is a lot of misinformation being spread on this board, I wish you guys who are obsessed with kw in the domain , would be screened somehow by a moderator
      Signature
      Tech article writing .Native English Speaker(with Proof)
      specializing in SmartPhones , Internet security, high tech gadgets, search engines, tech shows, digital cameras.

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5146909].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
        Originally Posted by outwest View Post

        this is totally untrue

        Google might look for kw in the URL, but unless its an EMD
        kw in the domain does not help at all

        even EMD the boost you get from them is not very much

        you think you can just take your main kw and add letters to it, words in front of it, in back of it, and google will boost you in the serps for that?

        I find that ludicrous, where is the proof of this
        this is taking EMD to a whole new level because the kind of domains you are creating are certainly NOT EMDs

        there is a lot of misinformation being spread on this board, I wish you guys who are obsessed with kw in the domain , would be screened somehow by a moderator

        Where is your proof that it doesn't work?
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5147303].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author outwest
          Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

          Where is your proof that it doesn't work?
          No thats not how it works

          You have to prove it does work

          I could say buy a monkey and feed it bananas boosts your serps,
          Then if the other board members pooh pooh this statement ...........
          so I can then challenge other board members by saying PROVE THIS DOESNT WORK?

          thats ridiculous

          I have a competitor in my new niche, he ranks 1,2 on Google for about 500 kws
          this is all from THE SAME DOMAIN..........all those kws are pages on his domain and they are all 1,2 in that niche, all the same website

          obviously the guy isnt putting his kws in the domain, how could he?
          yes the kw is IN THE URL, since these are pages
          that does boost your ONPAGE SEO ranking, KW IN URL.........but google doesnt care about kw in domain

          Go look at Market Samurai
          Onpage SEO factors on the SEO analysis

          Do you see kw in DOMAIN as a ranking factor? NOPE
          its not there
          Kw in url, kw in Title, Kw in Header, Kw in Description

          Where is the KW IN DOMAIN ....listing? Y or N? its NOT IN THE LIST

          If this is indeed a ranking factor why is it not in the list? of Market Samurai Ranking Factors?

          Everything else is there
          PR
          Domain Age
          Backlinks to Domain
          Backlinks to Page
          Indexed Page count
          Index in Yahoo or DMOZ

          they are all there along with onpage SEO Factors
          kw in url
          Kw in Header
          Kw in Title
          Kw in Description

          Where is the Kw in the Domain listing ???
          If that is indeed a ranking factor?

          They do not list it, because IT IS NOT A FACTOR
          Signature
          Tech article writing .Native English Speaker(with Proof)
          specializing in SmartPhones , Internet security, high tech gadgets, search engines, tech shows, digital cameras.

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5147475].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
            Originally Posted by outwest View Post

            No thats not how it works

            You have to prove it does work
            I'm just saying that you crapped all over his idea for no reason at all and acted as if it was complete BS, but you have nothing to back that up.

            Originally Posted by outwest View Post

            I have a competitor in my new niche, he ranks 1,2 on Google for about 500 kws
            this is all from THE SAME DOMAIN..........all those kws are pages on his domain and they are all 1,2 in that niche, all the same website

            obviously the guy isnt putting his kws in the domain, how could he?
            yes the kw is IN THE URL, since these are pages
            that does boost your ONPAGE SEO ranking, KW IN URL.........but google doesnt care about kw in domain
            This does not prove that having a keyword in a domain name does or doesn't work. Just because you have one keyword in the domain does not mean that you cannot rank for 100 other terms. It is not a limiting factor.

            By the way if you think that keywords in a domain play no role in ranking, have a look at the top 10 here.

            penny stocks - Google Search

            6 of the top 10 have the word in the domain (and are not all EMDs) and 1 has it in the URL.

            Originally Posted by outwest View Post

            Go look at Market Samurai

            Onpage SEO factors on the SEO analysis

            Do you see kw in DOMAIN as a ranking factor? NOPE
            its not there
            Kw in url, kw in Title, Kw in Header, Kw in Description

            Where is the KW IN DOMAIN ....listing? Y or N? its NOT IN THE LIST

            If this is indeed a ranking factor why is it not in the list? of Market Samurai Ranking Factors?

            Everything else is there
            PR
            Domain Age
            Backlinks to Domain
            Backlinks to Page
            Indexed Page count
            Index in Yahoo or DMOZ

            they are all there along with onpage SEO Factors
            kw in url
            Kw in Header
            Kw in Title
            Kw in Description

            Where is the Kw in the Domain listing ???
            If that is indeed a ranking factor?

            They do not list it, because IT IS NOT A FACTOR

            Really? That is your proof. Because Market Samurai doesn't say so?

            Since when did the guys that made Market Samurai get a hold of Google's ranking algorithm? Well, if it is not in Market Samurai than it can't possibly be a ranking factor.

            By the way, the guys behind Market Samurai also tell you that the number of competing listings is one of the biggest factors you should consider when determining the level of competition a keyword has. So you should go back to using that too because Market Samurai says so.


            Oh and one other thing. The same people that make Market Samurai also make a tool called Domain Samurai for finding keyword rich domains, so yeah, I think they do consider it a ranking factor. If they didn't, they would not have built a whole freaking tool around it.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5147586].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author outwest
              Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post




              Oh and one other thing. The same people that make Market Samurai also make a tool called Domain Samurai for finding keyword rich domains, so yeah, I think they do consider it a ranking factor. If they didn't, they would not have built a whole freaking tool around it.
              You serious? They probably own a domain name service they steer you to.

              I trust Market Samurai much more than I trust your opinion

              I think the reason they put SEOC (competing sites) in there is because a lot of people THINK that information is important (and they do) because they have been fed all this misinformation

              so in order to sell the software they say HEY WE HAVE COMPETING SITES DATA
              all the people who think thats important (and there are probably more that DO think its relevant, than DONT)
              Those people are tickled pink that Market Samurai provides this data

              If kw in domain is important, again I ask why does Market Samurai not include that information in its stats? Believe me if it was widely known or commonly thought that this information is relevant THEY WOULD PUT IT IN THEIR STATS,
              Signature
              Tech article writing .Native English Speaker(with Proof)
              specializing in SmartPhones , Internet security, high tech gadgets, search engines, tech shows, digital cameras.

              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5147674].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
                Originally Posted by outwest View Post

                You serious? They probably own a domain name service they steer you to.

                I trust Market Samurai much more than I trust your opinion

                I think the reason they put SEOC (competing sites) in there is because a lot of people THINK that information is important (and they do) because they have been fed all this misinformation

                so in order to sell the software they say HEY WE HAVE COMPETING SITES DATA
                all the people who think thats important (and there are probably more that DO think its relevant, than DONT)
                Those people are tickled pink that Market Samurai provides this data

                If kw in domain is important, again I ask why does Market Samurai not include that information in its stats? Believe me if it was widely known or commonly thought that this information is relevant THEY WOULD PUT IT IN THEIR STATS,
                It is pretty obvious you are just becoming a troll in this forum.

                Did you look at the SERP I pointed out, which is pretty damn competitive by the way, with all the keyword rich domains at the top?

                I love how you use information that favors your point of view and ignore anything that doesn't. So since for some reason you feel Market Samurai is an authority on getting good rankings... They don't have anything about the URL in their software, so that must not be a ranking factor. However, they highly stress the importance of the number of competing pages, but we can just ignore that?

                And again the Samurai guys built a whole piece of software that is devoted to nothing but finding keyword rich domains. And no it does not point you to a domain service they own.
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5147862].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author madzstar
                Yes u can and yes u will. Eerything has said that needs to b said. go with wat every1 said and ull be the best!
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5148028].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
                  creditcards.com outranks Visa, MasterCard, Discover, and Bank of America for 'credit cards'.

                  Citibank, created a subdomain 'creditcards' on their site. Wonder why they did that?

                  What is really silly about this whole conversation is just a few weeks ago outwest thought keyword rich domains were the greatest thing ever based on the exact same type of evidence.

                  http://www.warriorforum.com/adsense-...es-proves.html

                  Now that evidence is ridiculous.
                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5148084].message }}
                  • Profile picture of the author outwest
                    Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

                    creditcards.com outranks Visa, MasterCard, Discover, and Bank of America for 'credit cards'.

                    Citibank, created a subdomain 'creditcards' on their site. Wonder why they did that?

                    What is really silly about this whole conversation is just a few weeks ago outwest thought keyword rich domains were the greatest thing ever based on the exact same type of evidence.

                    http://www.warriorforum.com/adsense-...es-proves.html

                    Now that evidence is ridiculous.
                    A few weeks ago? try almost 3 months ago

                    I dont know why I posted that , I dont even remember making that post

                    creditcards.com
                    is AN EMD. That is also AN EMD .COM which IMO if EMDs do have any power its the EMD.COM that has teh power, not the net, org, info, etc etc etc etc and all the other extensions.

                    creditcards.com has about 250,000 backlinks 14 yr old domain
                    Visa? has about 5000 backlinks...............hmmm could that be the reason Visa is number 2 instead of number 1. Gosh, couldnt be. must be that creditcards.com has the EMD

                    EMDs are NOT What we are discussing
                    we are discussing adding a 1 before or after the EMDs or adding all kinds of other words before and after that EMD and saying THAT is equally important
                    Signature
                    Tech article writing .Native English Speaker(with Proof)
                    specializing in SmartPhones , Internet security, high tech gadgets, search engines, tech shows, digital cameras.

                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5148165].message }}
                  • Profile picture of the author hammertorch
                    Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

                    creditcards.com outranks Visa, MasterCard, Discover, and Bank of America for 'credit cards'.

                    Citibank, created a subdomain 'creditcards' on their site. Wonder why they did that?

                    What is really silly about this whole conversation is just a few weeks ago outwest thought keyword rich domains were the greatest thing ever based on the exact same type of evidence.

                    http://www.warriorforum.com/adsense-...es-proves.html

                    Now that evidence is ridiculous.
                    now thats one hell of a proof, thanks mike for clearing this out.
                    @Outwest it's now your time to shine show us your proof too...
                    Signature
                    Live a laptop life style by working home base
                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5148170].message }}
                    • Profile picture of the author outwest
                      Originally Posted by hammertorch View Post

                      now thats one hell of a proof, thanks mike for clearing this out.
                      @Outwest it's now your time to shine show us your proof too...
                      what proof did he show? An old post of mine 3 months old where I now changed my view? Thats proof I used to be misinformed? So?
                      I made that post before I started using Market Samurai I mean REALLY using it, since that Post I have researched bout 30,000 kws and OBSERVED who is ranked where, and OBSERVED how many of those were EMDs (Rank #1,2,3) and also OBSERVED how often (ALL THE TIME) that
                      domains with the kw NOT in the Domain Easily outranked the EMDs..........as I said I see this all the time. And I am not talking about EMDs with no backlinks. Many times these EMDs had way more backlinks than the sites outranking them (that had no kw in the domain )

                      How is this possible. ? After a while you start to notice that KW IN DOMAIN MEANS NOTHING
                      ................The ONLY time I have observed where KW in the domain makes ANY difference is
                      EMD.com...............................but then again even in those instances that is not necessarily true. Because if a guy is going to go out and buy the EMD.com he is sure as HELL going to put a BOATLOAD of backlinks and anchor text target that kw. So THE BACKLINKS may very well be why he is ranking NOT THE EMD

                      Now I see the light
                      You guys are still in the dark
                      Signature
                      Tech article writing .Native English Speaker(with Proof)
                      specializing in SmartPhones , Internet security, high tech gadgets, search engines, tech shows, digital cameras.

                      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5148191].message }}
                      • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
                        Mastercard.com has somewhere around 38 million backlinks and is still behind creditcards.com.

                        And I also pointed out creditcards.citi.com which is not an EMD.

                        Yet it is still on the first page with far less backlinks than most of the other listings.

                        Also the 'penny stocks' SERP is another example. timothysykes.com is #9 with far more backlinks than any other listing on the first page, yet it is outranked by mostly keyword rich domains.
                        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5148267].message }}
                      • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
                        Originally Posted by outwest View Post

                        I made that post before I started using Market Samurai I mean REALLY using it, since that Post I have researched bout 30,000 kws and OBSERVED who is ranked where
                        Well at the time of making this other ridiculous thread...

                        http://www.warriorforum.com/adsense-...emds-myth.html

                        You stated you had studied 10,000 KWs. Now it is 30,000 KWs. So in the last 6 weeks you have extensively studied the rankings of an additional 20,000 KWs. That is roughly about 475 KWs a day. Even if you work 12 hours a day, that is still about 40 KWs an hour.

                        There is no way you have studied that many KWs. Nice try though.
                        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5148325].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Osman_M
    Ofcourse you can. I did just a week ago. Somebody had already picked the .com for the keyword and I went ahead and picked up the .net. I beat him in 2 days.

    Currently, Im number 1 for that keyword!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2497820].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author kvnkane
    ok thanks for the tips guys. what do you think if i used a hyphen? such as wooden-shoes.com would the keyword be ok?
    Signature

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2500656].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Barry Unruh
    No, I'm sure Wikipedia ranks for all their keywords because.....wait a minute......
    Signature
    Brain Drained...Signature Coming Soon!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5146723].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author lovboa
    Banned
    Why is everyone saying "Yes, you can, Yes it's beatable" as if having the keyword in the domain is even relevant to whether the site can be beaten or not.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5146799].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Bryan V
    Usually EMD type sites are more focused on and off-page, so you may be dealing with someone who's hitting this KW harder. Keywords in the domain may help, but you need to analyze their backlinks to get an idea of what it's going to take to knock em down.
    Signature
    Perhaps an attic I shall seek.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5146874].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Matt Baker
    Do you mean a keyword rich domain? Yes of course you can beat that kind of domain..it possible and it happened many times.
    Signature

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5147501].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author LetterCraft Inc.
    You're going to find it hard (I didn't say impossible) to beat if it's an established EMD. If not, you're in with a decent chance.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5147528].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author outwest
      Originally Posted by Dev!l View Post

      You're going to find it hard (I didn't say impossible) to beat if it's an established EMD. If not, you're in with a decent chance.
      depends on what you mean by established

      if it has low backlinks, age of the domain has no effect
      Signature
      Tech article writing .Native English Speaker(with Proof)
      specializing in SmartPhones , Internet security, high tech gadgets, search engines, tech shows, digital cameras.

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5147543].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author outwest
    Fact is you have NO PROOF IT DOES WORK EITHER

    so stop acting so self righteous
    Hell the guys who are in love with EMDs they can barely point to instances to prove THOSE WORK

    I can see SOME justification for thinking EMDs work since google USED to put more emphasis on them

    but changing the EMD by adding all kinds of other words in front or behind it is ludicrous to think thats the same thing as an EMD..........................those variations Change the domain to something that is NOT AN EMD

    You show me documentation where google loves to see the kw in the domain, I would like to see it. Go ahead post it.
    EMDs , fine, they were important before, but just having the kw in any form in the domain>? show me articles saying this is important
    Signature
    Tech article writing .Native English Speaker(with Proof)
    specializing in SmartPhones , Internet security, high tech gadgets, search engines, tech shows, digital cameras.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5147648].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Barry Unruh
      Originally Posted by outwest View Post

      You show me documentation where google loves to see the kw in the domain, I would like to see it. Go ahead post it.
      Here you go:

      Originally Posted by Matt Cutts

      Now if you are still on the fence, let me just give you a bit of color. that we have looked at the rankings and the weights that we give to keyword domains, & some people have complained that we are giving a little too much weight for keywords in domains. So we have been thinking about at adjusting that mix a bit and sort of turning the knob down within the algorithm, so that given 2 different domains it wouldn't necessarily help you as much to have a domain name with a bunch of keywords in it.
      Not sure about you, but that basically states they are giving a preference, even if slight.

      Ask and ye shall receive...

      Search and you could have found! And before you scream that is ancient history...it is this year.
      Signature
      Brain Drained...Signature Coming Soon!
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5148220].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author outwest
        Originally Posted by Barry Unruh View Post

        Here you go:



        Not sure about you, but that basically states they are giving a preference, even if slight.

        Ask and ye shall receive...

        Search and you could have found! And before you scream that is ancient history...it is this year.
        You are assuming
        that (assuming Matt cutts word is God)
        that he is talking about ANY KWS in the domain being relevant
        as opposed to EMDs

        he really does not make that distinction in the youtube video you pulled your quote from


        All he says in the video is "kws in the domain"
        he makes no distinction

        so from that you assume ANY KWS in the domain

        Ok lets say you are google algo writers
        IF you are going to give weight to kws in the domain , would you give weight to ANY DOMAIN WITH THE KW in it, even with a 1 in front of it, whatever

        so you are talking

        Corvette Cars
        One guy goes and buys Corvettecars.com
        Next guy next day buys 1corvettecars.com
        Next day someone buys corvettecarsSite.com
        Next day ................... SomeCorvettecars.com
        Next Day BuyCorvettecars.com
        Next Day ...................CorvettecarsRock.com

        within a month you have 200 domains new domains that all have the kw in the domain
        so you are going to do what with those domains? How in the hell are you going to rank them any higher than anyone else? for what reason? it takes two seconds to create a new domain variation with the kw in it? Why should that be a ranking factor of any kind?

        Its ludicrous to think they would even attempt to give anything but the EMD.com a boost
        otherwise it becomes a joke
        Signature
        Tech article writing .Native English Speaker(with Proof)
        specializing in SmartPhones , Internet security, high tech gadgets, search engines, tech shows, digital cameras.

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5148386].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
          Originally Posted by outwest View Post

          so you are talking

          Corvette Cars
          One guy goes and buys Corvettecars.com
          Next guy next day buys 1corvettecars.com
          Next day someone buys corvettecarsSite.com
          Next day ................... SomeCorvettecars.com
          Next Day BuyCorvettecars.com
          Next Day ...................CorvettecarsRock.com

          within a month you have 200 domains new domains that all have the kw in the domain
          so you are going to do what with those domains? How in the hell are you going to rank them any higher than anyone else? for what reason? it takes two seconds to create a new domain variation with the kw in it? Why should that be a ranking factor of any kind?

          Its ludicrous to think they would even attempt to give anything but the EMD.com a boost
          otherwise it becomes a joke
          Why is that ludicrous? Look at the opposite view. It is ludicrous to think that ONLY the EMD would get any kind of a boost. Why would they give out a ranking boost for something only a handful of people can take advantage of? That doesn't seem like a level playing field.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5148472].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author outwest
            Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

            Why is that ludicrous? Look at the opposite view. It is ludicrous to think that ONLY the EMD would get any kind of a boost. Why would they give out a ranking boost for something only a handful of people can take advantage of? That doesn't seem like a level playing field.
            What I am saying is how can they rank boosts in serps
            lets say they have 200 domains for xyz kw, with variations of the kw in the domain?

            who gets the biggest boost if any?
            It becomes meaningless after a certain point if its so easy to go get a kw in the domain in ANY variation

            Now the EMD.com
            Yes I can see that getting a boost

            why?
            Because there is only one
            and its USUALLY ...THE COMPANY

            Dell computers? dell.com
            Microsoft............Microsoft.com
            Intel? Intel.com

            there can only be one EMD.com and its usually a heavy hitter AUTHORITY site, though not always so yes I can see THAT getting a boost, because there is limited supply, and those sites carry weight

            all the other 123kw.com's
            no I cant see any reason to give those sites a boost since they can be reproduced in mass, there is infinite number of webmasters who could jump in line

            so who gets a boost then? the first to register? its absurd
            Signature
            Tech article writing .Native English Speaker(with Proof)
            specializing in SmartPhones , Internet security, high tech gadgets, search engines, tech shows, digital cameras.

            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5148549].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author paulgl
            Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

            It is ludicrous to think that ONLY the EMD would get any kind of a boost. Why would they give out a ranking boost for something only a handful of people can take advantage of? That doesn't seem like a level playing field.
            Mike, that is one of the best takes I have ever read on the subject, and
            one that I never even thought of. Gotta hand it to you on that one.

            Paul
            Signature

            If you were disappointed in your results today, lower your standards tomorrow.

            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5148563].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author outwest
              Originally Posted by paulgl View Post

              Mike, that is one of the best takes I have ever read on the subject, and
              one that I never even thought of. Gotta hand it to you on that one.

              Paul
              you guys fail to see the forest for the Trees
              Signature
              Tech article writing .Native English Speaker(with Proof)
              specializing in SmartPhones , Internet security, high tech gadgets, search engines, tech shows, digital cameras.

              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5148580].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author outwest
    i Used to think Mike knew his stuff but after this series of responses I realize he doesnt
    Signature
    Tech article writing .Native English Speaker(with Proof)
    specializing in SmartPhones , Internet security, high tech gadgets, search engines, tech shows, digital cameras.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5147815].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author shakil754
    In my experience google does look at the domain to see if it contains the keyword or not BUT the other factors that are equally important are On Page and Off Page seo.

    By that I mean you have to have your site structure that google loves. I always go for a silo structure and make sure that the site is well optimized.

    Then its a question of building backlinks and over time your ranking will improve
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5147825].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author hammertorch
      I don' know but i guess although we do really have different opinions, but i guess i really would have to agree with Mike on this....

      upon searching on google, for example try to search the keyword "warriorforum" and you can check what's next in the ranking in google. So I think mike has a point in adding a word after the keyword domain, but again this is just my opinion.
      Signature
      Live a laptop life style by working home base
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5147993].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author outwest
    who would be trying to rank for warrior forum? thats a ridiculous example

    I can rank number 1,2 or 3 or very high with a domain that has a 1 to the keyword, does that prove anything? nope

    Prove a domain WITHOUT the name in the kw would not rank equally high?


    Just because you guys can go find domains with kw variations ranking high, how do you know WHY they rank high?


    Certainly the domain has ZIPPO to do with it

    but
    since they are ranking high..........and since they have a 1 or whatever added to the kw in the domain name you say SEE SEE LOOK THATS PROOF

    Really?
    Prove that the domain name having the kw in it, HAS ANY RELEVANCE to why the site ranks where it ranks?
    Signature
    Tech article writing .Native English Speaker(with Proof)
    specializing in SmartPhones , Internet security, high tech gadgets, search engines, tech shows, digital cameras.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5148027].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author SunnyDelight
    of course you can. With the right SEO strategy you can. It takes more than a keyword rich domain to rank. But it is a plus to have keywords in your domain when trying to rank hugh in google.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5148139].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author SunnyDelight
    of course you can. With the right SEO strategy you can. It takes more than a keyword rich domain to rank. But it is a plus to have keywords in your domain when trying to rank high in google.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5148143].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author outwest
    Oh so now Matt cutts if he says something thats the law right?>
    Signature
    Tech article writing .Native English Speaker(with Proof)
    specializing in SmartPhones , Internet security, high tech gadgets, search engines, tech shows, digital cameras.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5148348].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
      Originally Posted by outwest View Post

      Oh so now Matt cutts if he says something thats the law right?>
      While I do not listen to everything he says, he is just as reliable as Market Samurai.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5148391].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Barry Unruh
    No, Matt Cutts is not the law, but you asked for any proof Google gave a preference to EMD's coming straight from a source at Google, so I provided it for your entertainment and education. (As Mike eloquently pointed out, just a few months ago you believed EMD's were crucial to business success.)

    What you seem to misunderstand from everyone responding to you is the fact NO ONE is claiming EMD's give a big advantage. Everyone recognizes the preference has decreased in power.

    Most of us agree there is not a compelling reason to focus on only EMD's since you can rank a non-EMD site almost as easily. The difference is very slight, as even Matt Cutts pointed out in his quote.

    Most of the teachers I trust in the field have been pointing that fact out repeatedly over the last many months, but still agree there is a "slight" advantage.

    What you seem to misunderstand is you have an inability to take criticism and to learn...but that's just my observation...and it is not the law either.
    Signature
    Brain Drained...Signature Coming Soon!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5148418].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author outwest
      Originally Posted by Barry Unruh View Post

      No, Matt Cutts is not the law, but you asked for any proof Google gave a preference to EMD's coming straight from a source at Google, so I provided it for your entertainment and education. (As Mike eloquently pointed out, just a few months ago you believed EMD's were crucial to business success.)

      What you seem to misunderstand from everyone responding to you is the fact NO ONE is claiming EMD's give a big advantage. Everyone recognizes the preference has decreased in power.

      Most of us agree there is not a compelling reason to focus on only EMD's since you can rank a non-EMD site almost as easily. The difference is very slight, as even Matt Cutts pointed out in his quote.

      Most of the teachers I trust in the field have been pointing that fact out repeatedly over the last many months, but still agree there is a "slight" advantage.

      What you seem to misunderstand is you have an inability to take criticism and to learn...but that's just my observation...and it is not the law either.
      First of all that video is not new in fact I think it came out before Panda whatever the big one in May I think. (wasnt it May) or June whatever everyone cried about

      Also he said nothing about EMDs in that quote or that video, go watch the video

      There is a very good possibility that with the new Panda updates EMDs are no longer given any weight, considering the video is about 6 mos old
      Signature
      Tech article writing .Native English Speaker(with Proof)
      specializing in SmartPhones , Internet security, high tech gadgets, search engines, tech shows, digital cameras.

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5148426].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Barry Unruh
        Originally Posted by outwest View Post

        Also he said nothing about EMDs in that quote or that video, go watch the video

        There is a very good possibility that with the new Panda updates EMDs are no longer given any weight, considering the video is about 6 mos old
        I have watched the video, and read the text of the video.. Please look at this line once again:

        "we have looked at the rankings and the weights that we give to keyword domains"

        I'll agree he did not say EXACT...and he actually states we should not worry about it...but you keep arguing a point for the sake of argument without any substantial proof. Do I have any proof? Not at all, because I already stated the advantage is slight.

        I have in other threads made it clear I will choose an EMD if it makes sense for the market and it is available. The one thing you have made clear in this thread is quite simple. You must either be 100% right, or......oh wait, there was not another option.

        And since you asked for proof of our position, from Google...I now respectfully ask you to post yours. No more "I think"...Your proof sir...from Google's own mouth, but of course..you don't have it in any more clarity than we do. Which yes...does mean I realize there is just as much chance Matt is blowing smoke as telling the truth.

        And on that note...I'm done with this thread, because it is truly a waste of my time. I'll come back and read your entertaining explanations...because that part is fun...ny
        Signature
        Brain Drained...Signature Coming Soon!
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5148596].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author dukestravels1972
    Slightly off-topic here. But can someone tell me if using a hyphen to separate words in a keyword domain is just as good as having the desired (but taken) keyword domain url?

    I took a chance and bought a two word keyword that is separated this way, because allinurl searches "in quotes" for it came up with both in top 5.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5148421].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author KimboJim
    EMDs add some power to the domain, but a lot of people exaggerate its power. Google uses about 100-200 different factors when figuring out who should by one top. While and EMD is one of those factors, I don't think it's all that important. Will it help? Yes. Will it guarantee you a top spot or make that domain invincible? Absolutely not.

    The biggest factor is a good mix of NoFollow and DoFollow backlinks. Just keep pushing those to your website, and you'll be at the top in no time (that is, if you have good content).
    Signature
    Ready for some great content at a low cost?
    PresentPLR Newest Pack: LED Grow Lights
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5148622].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author xnice
    If you have enough back links, you can beat any keyword domain. Normally the EMD has a little back links, you can pass them anytime. Forget about what people say, you can make a case study by yourself and see results.
    Signature
    Need Quality Backlinks: Check Out How To Buy Quality Backlinks in 2018?
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5148639].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author outwest
      Originally Posted by xnice View Post

      If you have enough back links, you can beat any keyword domain. Normally the EMD has a little back links, you can pass them anytime. Forget about what people say, you can make a case study by yourself and see results.
      you guys are I assume talking about EMDs which
      I do not dispute , have SOME benefit, (although very small)

      what I am objecting to is these guys saying ANY KW IN ANY COMBINATION in the domain, even 1kw.com has anything worth mentioning as far as a boost (comparable to an EMD boost, which is small)

      If you start butchering the domain to where its no longer an EMD? ya that helps in the rankings a LOT, LOL
      NOT
      Signature
      Tech article writing .Native English Speaker(with Proof)
      specializing in SmartPhones , Internet security, high tech gadgets, search engines, tech shows, digital cameras.

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5148656].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
        Originally Posted by outwest View Post

        you guys are I assume talking about EMDs which
        I do not dispute , have SOME benefit, (although very small)
        Wait, now EMDs do have a ranking benefit?

        But just a week ago you started a thread saying they are worthless.

        http://www.warriorforum.com/adsense-...ml#post5112518

        You should run for office. You flip-flop as much as most politicians do.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5148754].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author xnice
        Originally Posted by outwest View Post

        you guys are I assume talking about EMDs which
        I do not dispute , have SOME benefit, (although very small)

        what I am objecting to is these guys saying ANY KW IN ANY COMBINATION in the domain, even 1kw.com has anything worth mentioning as far as a boost (comparable to an EMD boost, which is small)

        If you start butchering the domain to where its no longer an EMD? ya that helps in the rankings a LOT, LOL
        NOT
        I do not know how your exp. about this. But I say the truth: "any keyword in any combination" will worth. EMD keyword with some extra words; good SEO onpage; some small backlinks packages, some guys can dominate many spots at low competition keywords. But they did not do this because the income can not pay all of fee. If the income is good enough, you can see a lot of sites with EMD keyword.
        Signature
        Need Quality Backlinks: Check Out How To Buy Quality Backlinks in 2018?
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5148796].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author outwest
    I am willing to concede that teh EMD.com
    has some benefit, albeit small

    When you guys talk about EMDs you are talking
    .COM, .NET, .ORG. .INFO, .CO.UK. etc etc etc and NOI am not willing to concede that all those domain extensions are given boosts by google , even with the EMD.

    Only the .COM and I willing to concede any small boost
    however any benefit, of any EMD.something, can easily be overcome with high PR backlinks of a competitor

    you guys who rely on EMDs
    IMO
    are having a case of tunnel vision

    First of all , Any normal kw , with any decent amount of search traffic, MOST of the time the EMDs are all gone. What do you EMD worshippers do then? go to the next kw? or do you have the courage to actually TRY TO RANK on SEO, Backlinks etc?

    you think that the EMD will get you a boost that you dont have to backlink the site as much.
    if the competition is so low that an EMD alone, gives you that much of a boost

    you could most likely rank the same with ANY domain name

    what about my example of creditcards.com?
    you guys SCREECHED that this site was number one while mastercard and visa etc were not

    Creditcards.com has 250,000 backlinks

    The number 2 site has 5000 backlinks

    Gosh, the EMD ....MUST be why Creditcards.com is number one then right? isnt that proof?

    haha
    Backlinks Rule
    EMDs have very little benefit
    the sooner you learn that the better
    Signature
    Tech article writing .Native English Speaker(with Proof)
    specializing in SmartPhones , Internet security, high tech gadgets, search engines, tech shows, digital cameras.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5148967].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
      I never said that an EMD or keyword rich domain was more important than backlinks. I don't focus on domains much at all myself. I think I own maybe 3 EMD's and maybe another 4-5 keyword rich domains.

      I simply said that keywords in the URL do boost rankings. Does it guarantee a number 1 ranking or is it unbeatable? Of course not.

      Originally Posted by outwest

      what about my example of creditcards.com?
      you guys SCREECHED that this site was number one while mastercard and visa etc were not

      Creditcards.com has 250,000 backlinks

      The number 2 site has 5000 backlinks

      Gosh, the EMD ....MUST be why Creditcards.com is number one then right? isnt that proof?
      Once again, you only read what you want to read. MasterCard has about 38 million backlinks. Still not #1.

      Originally Posted by outwest

      When you guys talk about EMDs you are talking
      .COM, .NET, .ORG. .INFO, .CO.UK. etc etc etc and NOI am not willing to concede that all those domain extensions are given boosts by google , even with the EMD.

      Only the .COM and I willing to concede any small boost
      So I guess now you are going to try arguing that .com's rank better than anything else...
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5149130].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author outwest
        Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

        I never said that an EMD or keyword rich domain was more important than backlinks. I don't focus on domains much at all myself. I think I own maybe 3 EMD's and maybe another 4-5 keyword rich domains.

        I simply said that keywords in the URL do boost rankings. Does it guarantee a number 1 ranking or is it unbeatable? Of course not.



        Once again, you only read what you want to read. MasterCard has about 38 million backlinks. Still not #1.




        So I guess now you are going to try arguing that .com's rank better than anything else...
        Go back and look at mastercard

        first of all 38 million backlinks? that could be part of the problem, spammy backlinks

        second go look at them in Market Samurai
        Onpage SEO for the kw Credit Cards is N N N N (this is for Mastercard) #3

        While the number one site(creditcards.com ) is Y Y Y Y

        Are you saying you dont know ONPAGE SEO carries a lot of weight?
        Signature
        Tech article writing .Native English Speaker(with Proof)
        specializing in SmartPhones , Internet security, high tech gadgets, search engines, tech shows, digital cameras.

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5149423].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
          Both cardratings.com and Capital One have about the same or more backlinks and even better onpage factors than creditcards.com, yet they are both ranked farther back.

          Go look at the 'penny stocks' SERP again.

          The site that is #2, which is wikipedia, will be all N's too. Yet the site that is #9, timothysykes.com is all Y's, has far more backlinks, but is barely on the first page.

          You can nitpick a single SERP to draw any conclusion you want.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5149789].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author outwest
    u cant outrank wikipedia very easily
    I have that problem on one of my main kws for my new brick and mortar offline buss

    the first site is wikipedia
    16000 backlinks
    no way

    but
    thats ok its avg 100 bucks per order profit and being number 2 would be fine with me
    but that wont be easy either
    Signature
    Tech article writing .Native English Speaker(with Proof)
    specializing in SmartPhones , Internet security, high tech gadgets, search engines, tech shows, digital cameras.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5150191].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author awddude
    When I do my keyword research I often see look at the domain age of the top 10

    It's usually a bunch of 10 year old sites, with 1 or 2 very new sites. When I look at the new sites, I notice it's because they have better optimization.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5150199].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Alexis Barnabe
      Open Site Explorer

      AS a matter of fast its hard to beat a keyword domain name. I can tell you that!
      Signature

      Unleash your potential!
      For a killer website and a catching-eye unique web Design, choose Kezber, an
      Internet Marketing company.

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5150361].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author mosthost
        Originally Posted by Alexis Barnabe View Post

        Open Site Explorer

        AS a matter of fast its hard to beat a keyword domain name. I can tell you that!
        It looks like the links outgunned the EMD in your example.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5150477].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author outwest
    Links always outgun domain name
    Signature
    Tech article writing .Native English Speaker(with Proof)
    specializing in SmartPhones , Internet security, high tech gadgets, search engines, tech shows, digital cameras.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5150642].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author lovboa
    Banned
    @ outwest, mike friedman

    It seems you 2 are never going to come to an agreement...sigh
    But thanks for the valuable info from both sides of the table
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5151987].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author outwest
    Well my emd for my resort still sits at number 12 on Google woooohoooo

    while the other resorts without the kw even in their url much less their domain, continue to trounce the emd...........wohoooo go emd's
    Signature
    Tech article writing .Native English Speaker(with Proof)
    specializing in SmartPhones , Internet security, high tech gadgets, search engines, tech shows, digital cameras.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5152004].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
      Originally Posted by outwest View Post

      Well my emd for my resort still sits at number 12 on Google woooohoooo

      while the other resorts without the kw even in their url much less their domain, continue to trounce the emd...........wohoooo go emd's
      That is a really bad example because your EMD resort site is awful. Last time I saw it you had a Wordpress site, but never even filled out the About page. It was still that silly About default page that comes with Wordpress.

      It also was a PR 0 site with nowhere near the number of backlinks as the top sites.

      The content was bad.

      In fact, I would say the fact that it even got to #12 is a testament to the fact that EMDs do carry some ranking weight.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5154666].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author michael scott
    outwest, you just don't seem to get it no matter how much people try to explain it to you. EMDs are not the most powerful thing to rank #1, it's how you utilize the benefit. It's no different than having an optimized page title, content, or anchor text - it's just one of the elements Google looks for when ranking a page. You seem to think just because someone owns an EMD they have an automatic entitlement to page 1 but this is obviously not true when your competition is full of high PR links and good on-page SEO. By having the EMD, it only gives you a bit of a head start. But since you're still #12 even with an EMD boost, then maybe your SEO just plain sucks.

    You've gone back and forth claiming EMDs are useless and months later claiming how your competition is stomping you because they have a EMD.... but I think you're just frustrated. The correlation data that MikeFreedman pointed out is obvious. Those are real examples of SEOs who know what they're doing. I suggest you go back to learning SEO from the very basics first before you continue building more sites.

    Also, if you're still thinking partial match keywords suck, check out page 2 for "car insurance" on google. Again, it's the difference between real knowledge vs. a pseudo intellect. Now stop complaining and start studying.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5152525].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author outwest
      Originally Posted by michael scott View Post

      outwest, you just don't seem to get it no matter how much people try to explain it to you. EMDs are not the most powerful thing to rank #1, it's how you utilize the benefit. It's no different than having an optimized page title, content, or anchor text - it's just one of the elements Google looks for when ranking a page. You seem to think just because someone owns an EMD they have an automatic entitlement to page 1 but this is obviously not true when your competition is full of high PR links and good on-page SEO. By having the EMD, it only gives you a bit of a head start. But since you're still #12 even with an EMD boost, then maybe your SEO just plain sucks.

      You've gone back and forth claiming EMDs are useless and months later claiming how your competition is stomping you because they have a EMD.... but I think you're just frustrated. The correlation data that MikeFreedman pointed out is obvious. Those are real examples of SEOs who know what they're doing. I suggest you go back to learning SEO from the very basics first before you continue building more sites.

      Also, if you're still thinking partial match keywords suck, check out page 2 for "car insurance" on google. Again, it's the difference between real knowledge vs. a pseudo intellect. Now stop complaining and start studying.

      Here is the bottom line
      I USED to think EMDs mattered a lot and they USED TO

      however presently so many of you guys focus so much on EMDs to the point of actively searching for kws based on whether the EMD Is available or not, which I think is nuts

      I dont think Google values EMDs nearly as much as they used to. When I say EMDs mean nothing, Of course they give a little boost. I admit that.

      What I dont agree with is searching for EMDs directly, because I know you guys who do this, if the EMD is not available, go on to the next kw, since you are so intent on the EMD

      What if the EMD is not available, and the top 3 on google top 10 competition only have less than 30 backlinks. You could TROUNCE the competition with ANY domain name. But you guys would see right past that and say OH OPS EMD NOT AVAILABLE thats not a good one, Right?

      Or do you have the courage to actually RANK a site and compete based on
      1. backlinks
      2. onpage SEO
      etc etc etc etc etc

      Thats my whole point, The slight advantage that EMDs may offer, is trumped very quickly by high PR backlinks and other factors

      Your contention is
      OOH NO NO NO, a good EMD is VERY DIFFICULT to outrank
      (assuming I guess you are saying they have very thick backlinks etc etc etc)

      Ok but then most of you guys who look for EMDs look for them specifically because you think you DONT have to backlink them as much, correct?

      I dont know I just dont see EMDs being worth the trouble
      I dont feel like buying a new domain for every kw that comes into my mind

      And there is also the guys who go PAST the EMD concept and start *******izing the EMDs by adding x's , 1s, etc etc, extra words, which I think is just totally useless

      but hey so what if we disagree, does everyone have to agree with you?
      Signature
      Tech article writing .Native English Speaker(with Proof)
      specializing in SmartPhones , Internet security, high tech gadgets, search engines, tech shows, digital cameras.

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5152561].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Kris79
    Yes, you can outrank BMD but you must pay attention.
    First of all it's more important how many and what quality backlinks they have.
    If they have poor quality backlinks and you can have better, you will outrank them.

    But there is a catch to it: if they have KW in domain name, they probably targeting that KW harder, meaning their backlinks have KW as anchor text.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5155275].message }}

Trending Topics