A question for Alexa Smith and MYOB

277 replies
I was going to send both of you a PM with my questions, but figured others may benefit if I post this publicly.

My question is essentially on establishing a syndication network and how you manage it/distribute your articles.

Answering my question will obviously be much easier if you have a little background on what I am doing and my goals:

I am currently focused on just one niche and have extensive knowledge in this area. My site is filled with several hundred unique articles and growing daily.

My main goal is to to get my visitors on my list when they visit my site.

For the past couple of months, I have been writing several high quality articles a day and using SubmitYourArticle to distribute these pieces.

After coming here a few weeks back and reading the message both of you are giving about syndication, I became sold on the idea. For the last week I have been meticulously digging up blogs/newsletters in my niche that I can write for.

I will probably be writing about 25-30 articles in this niche each month. Most pieces will be around 1000 words.

I have read countless posts written by both of you, but there are some holes I need to fill in and would appreciate some clarity on the issues below:
  • I assume you contact your syndication networks through email? Do you ask for permission to put them on your lists, etc?
  • What kind of program do you use to handle these emails lists?
  • Do you send out one big broadcast each time you have written a new article? If I am going to be writing 30 articles a month - I obviously don't want to be blasting these articles out to my network each day, right?
  • Do you ever have problems with editors/blog owners asking for exclusive content?
  • I would like to keep using SYA to push my articles out there in the hope that they will end up on relevant sites. Should I use the same articles I send out to my syndication network, as I use on SYA?
Any answers you can provide on these issues would be extremely helpful.

Thank you so much!
#alexa #myob #question #smith
  • Profile picture of the author JRemington
    This is a potentially very useful thread. I'm glad he asked them publically rather than privately as I'm sure many others, just like myself, would like to know more about syndication. MYOB and Alexa are also very helpful.

    And we all owe them both a beer or two. I'd even pay for their taxi.
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  • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
    Banned
    I'm guessing Paul's answers will all be different from mine, because he's been doing this 14 years and I've been doing it under 3 years. So he'll be a lot more organised about it than I am, partly because he'll need to be and partly because he's probably not a technophobic incompetent like me, and will be able to use stuff that I wouldn't use ...

    Originally Posted by Joe Pace View Post

    My site is filled with several hundred unique articles and growing daily.
    Ooh, that's a lot!

    Originally Posted by Joe Pace View Post

    My main goal is to to get my visitors on my list when they visit my site.
    Mine also.

    Originally Posted by Joe Pace View Post

    I assume you contact your syndication networks through email? Do you ask for permission to put them on your lists, etc?
    You're asking about "website people" here, rather than "ezine people", I think? (I'm answering on that assumption, anyway).

    I have three standard emails: one for "new people" I'm trying to interest; one for people who have syndicated something from a directory and I'm now contacting them for the first time to thank them and offer them more; and one far shorter one for people who have already published something of mine when I'm just "sending them something new which they'll be either expecting or half-expecting because they already know me".

    Originally Posted by Joe Pace View Post

    What kind of program do you use to handle these emails lists?
    Program? What's a "program"? I keep all the information on a niche-by-niche basis in documents in my word-processor (which is automatically backed up all the time). I don't know from any "program" ...

    Originally Posted by Joe Pace View Post

    Do you send out one big broadcast each time you have written a new article?
    I tend to do this as "bcc's" so I can send it to however many there are, without them seeing each others' email addresses. I don't have these in an autoresponder or other emailing software (I bet Paul does, though, probably some self-hosted thing to make it easier!).

    Originally Posted by Joe Pace View Post

    If I am going to be writing 30 articles a month - I obviously don't want to be blasting these articles out to my network each day, right?
    I suppose ...

    I've never written this amount for one niche, or anything like it. I don't quite manage one article per week per niche, to be honest. I have 8 niches now and at the moment I'm writing about 6.5 articles per week. It's enough!

    Originally Posted by Joe Pace View Post

    Do you ever have problems with editors/blog owners asking for exclusive content?
    No, never. (Why would they want "exclusive content"?). The ones who have syndicated something from EZA have already shown that they're willing to syndicate previously published content. My answer is the same as it is for "guest blogging" here (I was probably the only person in the thread who answered "no" to a question to which everyone else said "yes" ).

    Originally Posted by Joe Pace View Post

    I would like to keep using SYA to push my articles out there in the hope that they will end up on relevant sites.
    "How's that working out for you?"

    Originally Posted by Joe Pace View Post

    Any answers you can provide on these issues would be extremely helpful.
    Maybe not so much? Sorry ... Paul may do better ...
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    • Profile picture of the author Joe Pace
      Ooh, that's a lot!
      Not much I know... I'm working on it! Quality takes time, right?

      I have three standard emails: one for "new people" I'm trying to interest; one for people who have syndicated something from a directory and I'm now contacting them for the first time to thank them and offer them more; and one far shorter one for people who have already published something of mine when I'm just "sending them something new which they'll be either expecting or half-expecting because they already know me".
      Thx - I assumed it was something like this, but you never know until you ask.

      I tend to do this as "bcc's" so I can send it to however many there are, without them seeing each others' email addresses. I don't have these in an autoresponder or other emailing software (I bet Paul does, though, probably some self-hosted thing to make it easier!).
      Apparently I am presumptuous and thought you used an autoresponder program to send all of your emails. So basically you do it the old school way.

      I've never written this amount for one niche, or anything like it. I don't quite manage one article per week per niche, to be honest. I have 8 niches now and at the moment I'm writing about 6.5 articles per week. It's enough!
      It isn't difficult, because I use DNA and don't have to do much research as I know the niche very well.

      No, never. (Why would they want "exclusive content"?). The ones who have syndicated something from EZA have already shown that they're willing to syndicate previously published content. My answer is the same as it is for "guest blogging" here (I was probably the only person in the thread who answered "no" to a question to which everyone else said "yes" ).
      So basically I have my answer: You offer the same article to everyone in each niche.

      "How's that working out for you?"
      A good number of links; relevancy is somewhat questionable, hence the desire to go to a type of syndication system like you use.

      I want everything to be legit with this site. No shortcuts. (I suppose using SYA is a type of shortcut).

      Maybe not so much? Sorry ... Paul may do better ...
      Actually, it was quite helpful - TY Alexa.
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      • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Joe Pace View Post

        Apparently I am presumptuous and thought you used an autoresponder program to send all of your emails. So basically you do it the old school way.
        I use Aweber for all my 8 lists in my 8 niches (customers and potential customers: actually I sub-divide a lot and have more than 8, really).

        But not for people in my syndication network (I'd never be able to - or want to - get them to "opt in" anyway. You'd need a self-hosted solution, I think - and though I may be wrong, I'm guessing that's how Paul does his).

        Originally Posted by Joe Pace View Post

        I use DNA
        It's what we're all made from, ultimately.

        I'm looking forward to seeing Paul's replies later ...
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        • Profile picture of the author Joe Pace
          Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

          I use Aweber for all my 8 lists in my 8 niches (customers and potential customers: actually I sub-divide a lot and have more than 8, really).

          But not for people in my syndication network (I'd never be able to - or want to - get them to "opt in" anyway. You'd need a self-hosted solution, I think - and though I may be wrong, I'm guessing that's how Paul does his).
          Right. I use GR and have 25 niche lists to handle. So it would be impossible to handle these lists without this software.

          But basically your syndication network is kept in a Word file (comma delimited?) and sent out using a regular old email client such as Thunderbird or the like?

          It's what we're all made from, ultimately.
          True.... unless my Dragon gets in a mood and just takes "suggestions".
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          • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Joe Pace View Post

            But basically your syndication network is kept in a Word file (comma delimited?) and sent out using a regular old email client such as Thunderbird or the like?
            The like; yes - exactly.

            Originally Posted by Joe Pace View Post

            True.... unless my Dragon gets in a mood and just takes "suggestions".
            Oh, that sort of DNA ... "Dragon Naturally Articulating", or something?

            I was thinking more of the double helix type of DNA.
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            • Profile picture of the author Joe Pace
              Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

              I was thinking more of the double helix type of DNA.
              It is actually DNS (Dragon Naturally Speaking)....

              I was trying to hold my baby and type at the same time
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              • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
                This should be an interesting thread.

                Alexa said:
                I tend to do this as "bcc's" so I can send it to however many there are, without them seeing each others' email addresses. I don't have these in an autoresponder or other emailing software (I bet Paul does, though, probably some self-hosted thing to make it easier!).
                She was referring to a different Paul, but I'll jump in anyway.

                For in-house lists - like folks who have stated they want notifications about new articles - I recommend WorldMerge. It works well with a number of different list formats, is easy to use, and allows you to personalize the emails if you like.

                It's well-supported, and has a lot of options for the power user. It's also ridiculously cheap ($59) for what you get. And no, that's not an affiliate link up there.

                There are other options. That's just the one I've used for a long time. It does the job well.


                Paul
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                • Profile picture of the author tpw
                  Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

                  This should be an interesting thread.

                  For in-house lists - like folks who have stated they want notifications about new articles - I recommend WorldMerge. It works well with a number of different list formats, is easy to use, and allows you to personalize the emails if you like.

                  It's well-supported, and has a lot of options for the power user. It's also ridiculously cheap ($59) for what you get. And no, that's not an affiliate link up there.

                  There are other options. That's just the one I've used for a long time. It does the job well.


                  Paul

                  I never BCC or CC any articles I send out.

                  I send one email to each publisher, with their email address in the To field, unless they receive from me because they joined one of my managed lists.

                  I want the publisher to "see" that I was addressing them specifically.

                  I do use software to ensure that I can individually address every email. The end result is that I send "more" emails, but those people who receive the mail from me feel better about the article I sent out, because they know that I wanted "them" to see it.


                  p.s. I do submit articles to some publishers, who request "exclusive rights", but only if those publishers offer me access to a large audience.
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                  Bill Platt, Oklahoma USA, PlattPublishing.com
                  Publish Coloring Books for Profit (WSOTD 7-30-2015)
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                  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
                    Bill,
                    I never BCC or CC any articles I send out.

                    I send one email to each publisher, with their email address in the To field, unless they receive from me because they joined one of my managed lists.
                    That's how WorldMerge does it. One email, individually addressed, to each person. You can do rather extensive personalization if you want to work it into your publisher database.


                    Paul
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                    Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

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                    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
                      I've been doing article marketing for 15 years and have several networks established for syndicating my content across 50 niches and would have happily added my comments if it had been an open question, but since the OP quite clearly only wants to hear from 2 specific warriors it would obviously be a waste of my time.
                      Dude, relax. I suspect it was phrased that way because Alexa and Paul are the most vocal on the subject.

                      I've been on both ends of the article syndication process for about the same time. Got started in '96. I left it alone for a while, and I'm interested in what the other folks who've been into it more heavily in recent years have to say. Doesn't mean I'm going to stay out because I wasn't "top of mind" on the subject.

                      Sheesh.


                      Paul
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                      Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

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                      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
                        Alexa,

                        You don't store the lists in the program. You load them for each project.

                        Let's say you have a list of affiliates, which includes the first and last name, affiliate ID, Paypal address, and preferred contact address. That's your database. Let's assume it's in comma-separated format, for this example. You could send to either the preferred or Paypal address. You can include any field anywhere in the subject or message body, by putting the field name in double square brackets.

                        So, say the fields were formatted this way:

                        "First","Last","MainEmail","Paypal","AffID"

                        The formatting could look like this:

                        Subject: [[First]] - New article for you

                        Message:

                        [[First]],

                        I've got a new article for you on "Cool Subject." It's available at http://exampledomain997.com/pulitzerclass

                        To get your affiliate commissions on any orders resulting from traffic from your site, change the link in the body and author's note to:

                        http://exampledomain997.com/mondoproduct/?e=[[AffID]]


                        Da Editor


                        To send that, you'd open a new project, choose the database type, load the database, paste in the subject and message, and hit "Send."

                        If you wanted to send a message to a different list after that, you'd just repeat the steps, but with a different message and the appropriate database.

                        You can use tab- or comma-delimited lists, a plain list of just one email per line, your Outlook addressbook, an Access database or Excel spreadsheet, and several less common formats. I use tab-delimited, and had a tool created for me that lets me do a lot of handy things with the data. You don't need anything fancy, though. You can manage the DBs with a text editor if you want.


                        Paul
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                        Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

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                  • Profile picture of the author David Keith
                    i also thought this to be an odd title. while i do respect the effort put in by the OP two hand pick to well qualified people to seek advice from in my opinion. There are hundreds of other very successful warriors that could add value to this discussion

                    --- end mini rant ---

                    Originally Posted by tpw View Post


                    p.s. I do submit articles to some publishers, who request "exclusive rights", but only if those publishers offer me access to a large audience.
                    i totally agree with this. if someone wants something special like exclusive rights or a higher commission, they have to bring something special to the table. but i also have issued exclusive rights to some content to people with high traffic or those with a large subscriber base.

                    on the same note. people often get too caught up in the idea that the internet is this huge place, and that you need thousands of publishers or articles to reach your audience. people incorrectly think that getting your article published by 500 (mostly low quality) article directories is the answer...its not.

                    the fact is that most would be much better off trying to build a solid relationship with a much smaller pool of publishers in their niche who have some existing leverage.

                    in my experience, once someone who is interested in syndicating articles written by others realizes you are putting out good content, its not usually that hard to convince them to get on a AR list to receive content periodically. of course the key is continuing to respect their time and only mailing that list once every 2 weeks or so.

                    also be sure that list is setup so that any responses go to an email address directly seen and answered by you on a daily basis.
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                • Profile picture of the author John Durham
                  Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

                  There are other options. That's just the one I've used for a long time. It does the job well.


                  Paul
                  Which I have found is a major key in business "Dont fix things that arent broke". If something works for you, even if you do it manually... dont fix it is my motto in general.

                  I still do manual things I did ten years ago and do better at it than some of the people who tell me I should be using advanced technology, but who dont make sales of any significance.
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                  • Profile picture of the author GlenH
                    This is possibly the best, most educational thread I've come across in all the years I've been a member here.

                    If you packaged up all the collective information and knowledge here, it would be almost priceless

                    My question is, there's been numerous mentions about some members using 'self-hosted' autoresponder systems to manage their large customer lists.

                    With the sizes of the lists I have, it's starting to get out of control cost wise with the likes of AWeber and others I use.

                    Is there any recommendation for a solid, reliable and well featured self-hosted autoresponder solution.

                    Thanks guys

                    --Glen
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                • Profile picture of the author GIDEONCG
                  Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

                  This should be an interesting thread.

                  Alexa said:She was referring to a different Paul, but I'll jump in anyway.

                  For in-house lists - like folks who have stated they want notifications about new articles - I recommend WorldMerge. It works well with a number of different list formats, is easy to use, and allows you to personalize the emails if you like.

                  It's well-supported, and has a lot of options for the power user. It's also ridiculously cheap ($59) for what you get. And no, that's not an affiliate link up there.

                  There are other options. That's just the one I've used for a long time. It does the job well.


                  Paul
                  I hope you get to read this Paul

                  I want to ask if I can use this wordmerge software to send query to prospective publishers that I am contacting for the very first time,the may be up to 50 or more without risking the mail being marked as spam.Also what is the mail deliverable rate that I should expect of the emails that I send using the wordmerge software.This is because if the software works well,I intend to use it to do most of the first contacting email query to publishes, only worried that it might be marked a spam or may not have adequate delivery rate

                  thanks for your responsen
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                  • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
                    Banned
                    Originally Posted by GIDEONCG View Post

                    I hope you get to read this Paul

                    I want to ask if I can use this wordmerge software to send query to prospective publishers that I am contacting for the very first time,the may be up to 50 or more without risking the mail being marked as spam.Also what is the mail deliverable rate that I should expect of the emails that I send using the wordmerge software.This is because if the software works well,I intend to use it to do most of the first contacting email query to publishes, only worried that it might be marked a spam or may not have adequate delivery rate

                    thanks for your responsen

                    If you intend for these publishers to put your work on their websites, you are going to need to build a relationship. Blasting out the same email to "50 or more" publishers at the same time is not how you accomplish this. A publisher in one of my niches told me that she has been seeing what you're suggesting quite a lot lately (I guess that particular niche was more IM penetrated than I thought ). They'll send a generic email that goes something like this:

                    Hello Sir/Madam,

                    I was reading your website today and was very impressed with the content. You really know how to engage with your readers! I'm a writer too, and have content in your niche that I know your readers will love. Here is an article that you can post, and I'll have many more down the line!

                    [Exerpt of Fiverr/iwriter article here]

                    Thanks, and let me know when you publish the article!

                    Silly McGuestposter
                    The publisher I was speaking with? She assumes this is bot spam and trashes it right away. If you're not approaching on an informed and personal level, on a case by case basis, you're just going to be regarded as another SEO guest post spammer and banned to the trash bin.

                    Not worth it if you ask me.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
                      Banned
                      Originally Posted by Joseph Robinson View Post

                      Hello Sir/Madam,

                      I was reading your website today and was very impressed with the content. You really know how to engage with your readers! I'm a writer too, and have content in your niche that I know your readers will love. Here is an article that you can post, and I'll have many more down the line!

                      [Exerpt of Fiverr/iwriter article here]

                      Thanks, and let me know when you publish the article!
                      Extraordinary.

                      This is ludicrous nonsense!

                      People who are trying this must be learning pretty quickly that it's a waste of time? Let's just be grateful for the fact that they don't pitch up here announcing "article syndication doesn't work".
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                      • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
                        Banned
                        Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

                        Extraordinary.

                        Let's just be grateful for the fact that they don't pitch up here announcing "article syndication doesn't work".
                        They call it "guest posting" :rolleyes::p.
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                    • Profile picture of the author GIDEONCG
                      [quote=Joseph Robinson;7083428]If you intend for these publishers to put your work on their websites, you are going to need to build a relationship. Blasting out the same email to "50 or more" publishers at the same time is not how you accomplish this.

                      thanks for you contribution and informed advice,what I am asking here is more on automation of the processes that have been discussed on this thread(and many others) by Alexa,MYOB,PAUL,JOHN McCABE AND MANY OTHERS .
                      PAUL particularly mentioned that he use word merge software for sending new articles to publishers that have already accepted to publish his work,this act as an email list,MYOB said he has an in house self hosted application for the same purpose

                      what I intend doing is to automate the initial contact process,and want to know if the software Paul said he is using can bypass the risk of my mail ending up as spam mails
                      NOW this question can only be answered by people who are familiar with this software or similar software,but for the benefit of others that will want to contribute,I will explain this for you

                      Let say I follow the advice of MYOB and ALEXA (discussed on this thread and other threads on article syndication),I subscribe to the newsletter of say 200 Ezine publishers ON my niche that accept articles so as to get familiar with their work(note they did not say 200, I am just scaling this up) ,after receiving one or two of their publications I could mention particular topic the write on for each of this publishers(this whole process could be outsourced)

                      NOW I head to the template or suggestion made by MYOB on this thread on the first contact query to publisher which is by far away from what Joseph just posted here

                      I have seen it ,here is it

                      "Dear {ezine publisher's name}, As one of your subscribers I see that you have published articles relating to underwater basketweaving. This is my specialty, and I think fellow subscribers might be interested in some articles I have published on this topic. Below is my latest article for your consideration for insertion in the next available issue:

                      {text of article body, with resource box}

                      Please advise if you would consider regular weekly or other periodic contributions. For your further review, some of my syndicated articles can be seen on Ezine Articles:
                      http://ezinearticles.com/?expert=Wally_Weaver

                      Regards,
                      Wally Weaver
                      wally@waterworld.com"


                      OK here comes the H bomb
                      I don't know if I should post this here but let go ahead.
                      word merge software can be use to personalize emails send to multiple contacts by using excel file fields for names,email address,etc
                      now I can include a field for the topic and particulate reference to each publishers publication that I have read

                      let see what Paul posted on this

                      OK I have seen it

                      Alexa,

                      You don't store the lists in the program. You load them for each project.

                      Let's say you have a list of affiliates, which includes the first and last name, affiliate ID, Paypal address, and preferred contact address. That's your database. Let's assume it's in comma-separated format, for this example. You could send to either the preferred or Paypal address. You can include any field anywhere in the subject or message body, by putting the field name in double square brackets.

                      So, say the fields were formatted this way:

                      "First","Last","MainEmail","Paypal","AffID"

                      The formatting could look like this:

                      Subject: [[First]] - New article for you

                      Message:

                      [[First]],

                      I've got a new article for you on "Cool Subject." It's available at http://exampledomain997.com/pulitzerclass

                      To get your affiliate commissions on any orders resulting from traffic from your site, change the link in the body and author's note to:

                      http://exampledomain997.com/mondoproduct/?e=[[AffID]]


                      Da Editor

                      To send that, you'd open a new project, choose the database type, load the database, paste in the subject and message, and hit "Send."

                      If you wanted to send a message to a different list after that, you'd just repeat the steps, but with a different message and the appropriate database.

                      You can use tab- or comma-delimited lists, a plain list of just one email per line, your Outlook addressbook, an Access database or Excel spreadsheet, and several less common formats. I use tab-delimited, and had a tool created for me that lets me do a lot of handy things with the data. You don't need anything fancy, though. You can manage the DBs with a text editor if you want.


                      Paul


                      now you can see this can be done but I want to know if the software could work for sending emails to people that have not yet accepted to be mailed
                      since what Paul said was that he use this software for people that have already accepted to be mailed

                      I hope that this tone of information will help you and all that will venture to provide answer to this question

                      thanks





                      A publisher in one of my niches told me that she has been seeing what you're suggesting quite a lot lately (I guess that particular niche was more IM penetrated than I thought ). They'll send a generic email that goes something like this:

                      sorry what she have been seeing is far from what I am suggesting, please not suggesting but asking

                      The publisher I was speaking with? She assumes this is bot spam and trashes it right away. If you're not approaching on an informed and personal level, on a case by case basis, you're just going to be regarded as another SEO guest post spammer and banned to the trash bin.

                      Not worth it if you ask me.
                      I need to know that is while I am asking


                      thanks for providing an answer
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  • Profile picture of the author grandstar
    I see I'm not the only one interested in syndication- the right way to distribute articles.

    Myob's contribution will be most appreciated
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  • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
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    • Profile picture of the author Justin Jordan
      Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

      It's really funny to see the way this thread was titled.

      I've been doing article marketing for 15 years and have several networks established for syndicating my content across 50 niches and would have happily added my comments if it had been an open question, but since the OP quite clearly only wants to hear from 2 specific warriors it would obviously be a waste of my time.

      Weird to pre-filter all possible answers except those from 2 people - should've just PM'd them.
      That's kind of a weird interpretation of the thread title, I think. I'd assume, and what seems to have been meant, is that the OP would like to hear from those two specifically, but that by no means precludes others from chiming in.

      As Paul did.
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      • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Justin Jordan View Post

        That's kind of a weird interpretation of the thread title, I think. I'd assume, and what seems to have been meant, is that the OP would like to hear from those two specifically, but that by no means precludes others from chiming in.

        As Paul did.
        I also took it this way, Andy. He meant: "Alexa, Myob and anyone else in that position".

        I do see that it was an odd title. (To be honest, it made me wonder for a split-second if Allen had brought out his "[YOU]" toy again so that everyone saw their own name! )

        My guess is that the OP had no idea that you've been doing article marketing for 15 years and have several networks established for syndicating your content across 50 niches. I didn't know any of that, myself, so I'll be pretty surprised if he did.

        Anyway, I'd love to know your answers to his questions, myself, so do carry on, please ...

        =============================================

        Paul,

        I've been looking at this WorldMerge gadget and have a question, if I may, which I can't find answered in their FAQ. Would I be able to input my niche-contacts for syndication into it by hand, on 8 or 10 separate lists for separate niches, or would I have to have them in some sort of "format" to "import"? (In other words, would it be a "technical" problem for me? I don't have them in Aweber, or anywhere like that).
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        • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
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          • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

            You always get there first so I don't need to post
            LOL - sorry; this is entirely fairly comment.

            Anyway, many thanks for breaking cover and for your interesting replies, which will clearly interest far more people than just the OP, here.
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    • Profile picture of the author Colin Palfrey
      Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

      It's really funny to see the way this thread was titled.

      I've been doing article marketing for 15 years and have several networks established for syndicating my content across 50 niches and would have happily added my comments if it had been an open question, but since the OP quite clearly only wants to hear from 2 specific warriors it would obviously be a waste of my time.

      Weird to pre-filter all possible answers except those from 2 people - should've just PM'd them.
      I'm guessing he just picked the names of 2 warriors he was sure were actually doing it.

      You know how it can be, you ask a question and get 2 answers that really help you, hidden between 500 guesses. Then there is a chance that you will follow the advice of the guesser instead of the expert because it sounded impressive.

      AndyHenry, he's probably busy adding your name to the thread title right now lol.
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    • Profile picture of the author johnben1444
      Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

      It's really funny to see the way this thread was titled.

      I've been doing article marketing for 15 years and have several networks established for syndicating my content across 50 niches and would have happily added my comments if it had been an open question, but since the OP quite clearly only wants to hear from 2 specific warriors it would obviously be a waste of my time.

      Weird to pre-filter all possible answers except those from 2 people - should've just PM'd them.
      C, mon Andy, not trying to get at you but just trying to be sincere. Why do you care now? This thread was most likely meant for people Joe Pace believe are responsive to his queries. A lot of times, help for information has been directly sent to you and your likes and no reply was ever gotten.

      I can testify that Alexa is one of the most reliable person on this forum. EVER! Many people leave or don't care after getting what they want or don't bother when they know there is nothing IN for them.

      Just saying the plain truth...

      John
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      • Profile picture of the author Joe Pace
        I'm sorry if the thread title bothered people (who knew?) - but this thread is about helping others. Please put your egos aside and understand why I made the post.
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  • Profile picture of the author Istvan Horvath
    Am I allowed to start a thread like: "Yo, Andy, tell me everything...!" ?
    <joke>

    Andy, I always liked your no-BS style posts and learned a lot from your contribution.
    I am afraid this time you misread the OP's intentions...

    Don't deprive us, please, of your wisdom on the topic
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  • Profile picture of the author Lori Kelly
    This is exactly why I joined this forum. To get valuable, free information. Thank you, OP for not PMing the questions and allowing the rest of us warriors to gain knowledge.

    I can't speak for the OP's reason for the title, but I too would love to hear from those of you who have expertise in this area.

    Edit - I will be more than happy to share what I learn about IM with others as soon as I am in a position to provide useful information. That too is what this forum is about, helping others.

    Thanks again.
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  • Profile picture of the author Matt281
    I was going to make a another topic to ask this but I'll just post it here. Quick question about syndication:

    I remember Alexa saying something along the lines of "as long as articles are indexed on your site first, putting it up for syndication shouldn't be a problem for the SERPS" (ie you're unlikely to get outranked by someone who takes your article off of EZA).

    How does this work when you edit/update the articles on your site?

    I ask this because the basic system I'm following (until I get fully into article syndication) recommends going back to articles you have that do really well in the SERPS (I'm mostly getting SE traffic now) and inserting some related long tail keywords.

    For instance, lets say you rank #2 for "how to replace a car battery", you'd go back in to that article and add subheadings like "how to replace old car batteries" and "cheap car battery replacement" for some extra traffic.

    Will this have any influence on how google views the originality of your content? Does it create any other problems?

    Thanks!
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    • Profile picture of the author David Keith
      Originally Posted by Matt281 View Post

      I was going to make a another topic to ask this but I'll just post it here. Quick question about syndication:

      I remember Alexa saying something along the lines of "as long as articles are indexed on your site first, putting it up for syndication shouldn't be a problem for the SERPS" (ie you're unlikely to get outranked by someone who takes your article off of EZA).

      How does this work when you edit/update the articles on your site?

      I ask this because the basic system I'm following (until I get fully into article syndication) recommends going back to articles you have that do really well in the SERPS (I'm mostly getting SE traffic now) and inserting some related long tail keywords.

      For instance, lets say you rank #2 for "how to replace a car battery", you'd go back in to that article and add subheadings like "how to replace old car batteries" and "cheap car battery replacement" for some extra traffic.

      Will this have any influence on how google views the originality of your content? Does it create any other problems?

      Thanks!
      if you are talking about just changing the article on your site and adding in more longtail kyewords, i am pretty sure it would not do you any harm. assuming you are talking about editing the original article post on your site and not adding another article that is 90% the same but with a few longtail keywords added.

      as far as syndication goes. i would not suggest trying to re-syndicate an article that has been only slightly altered with longtail keywords. that would essentially be article spinning and would fall much more in the realm of mass article submissions than article syndication as defined by the users in this thread.

      but i will say this is only an educated guess on this, i have never actually tested and tracked any results on this.
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    • Profile picture of the author tpw
      Originally Posted by Matt281 View Post

      I remember Alexa saying something along the lines of "as long as articles are indexed on your site first, putting it up for syndication shouldn't be a problem for the SERPS" (ie you're unlikely to get outranked by someone who takes your article off of EZA).

      I hope Alexa doesn't say that...

      I am afraid that I may have seen her imply such before, but I am not real sure.

      I know that Alexa has said before that you don't want to try to get your article on an article directory to the top of the results. I agree with that.

      I agree that it is better to have the article on your website come up at the top of the search results.

      But putting the article on your website is no guarantee that Google will rank your site the highest, because the article was found on your website, before it was found on other sites.

      It is a myth to believe that putting an article on your own website first will ensure that Google will always rank your copy of the article higher in the SERPs. Myth, myth, myth!

      The truth is that Google will rank your article on the website, with the highest credibility and link popularity value, at the top of the SERPs.

      If your website is the website that has the highest credibility and has your article, then your website will be at the top of the results.

      If your website is not the one with the highest credibility, the copy of the article on your site will not be at the top of the search results.
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      • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
        Banned
        Originally Posted by tpw View Post

        I hope Alexa doesn't say that...
        She doesn't.

        She says stuff like "The better your own on-page and off-page SEO and the longer-established your site, the less likely that is to be a problem" and so on.

        Originally Posted by tpw View Post

        I know that Alexa has said before that you don't want to try to get your article on an article directory to the top of the results. I agree with that.
        As do I.

        Originally Posted by tpw View Post

        But putting the article on your website is no guarantee that Google will rank your site the highest, because the article was found on your website, before it was found on other sites.
        No, indeed.

        My impression is that this tended to be an "issue" for people much more often a year or two ago than it is now, anyway. (Perhaps partly because of the "Panda update"?).

        I know when I started, I could put an article on my brand new site and have it indexed there, and then put it in EZA and the EZA copy would immediately outrank me. Now that was annoying. Understandable, but still annoying. It was temporary, of course, and the more you build up your own site the less it happens anyway.

        But it was because of that, that people used to think "Eew, well, the EZA copy ranks better than mine, so I'll send all my traffic there instead" and start building backlinks only to that copy (even if they lost 75% of their traffic there because their CTR was 25%!). Whereupon, of course, the ceiling descends on them, and lo and behold they end up with a site which can't even outrank an article directory, typically not realising that they've done it to themselves by accentuating the problem instead of resolving it. :rolleyes:

        Originally Posted by tpw View Post

        It is a myth to believe that putting an article on your own website first will ensure that Google will always rank your copy of the article higher in the SERPs. Myth, myth, myth!
        Indeed. This isn't the reason for doing so at all.
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        • Profile picture of the author tpw
          Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

          I know when I started, I could put an article on my brand new site and have it indexed there, and then put it in EZA and the EZA copy would immediately outrank me. Now that was annoying. Understandable, but still annoying. It was temporary, of course, and the more you build up your own site the less it happens anyway.

          But it was because of that, that people used to think "Eew, well, the EZA copy ranks better than mine, so I'll send all my traffic there instead" and start building backlinks only to that copy (even if they lost 75% of their traffic there because their CTR was 25%!). Whereupon, of course, the ceiling descends on them, and lo and behold they end up with a site which can't even outrank an article directory, typically not realising that they've done it to themselves by accentuating the problem instead of resolving it. :rolleyes:

          The only reason that EZA ever got that temporary bump on the front end of the process is because Google was counting links to our articles inside of EZA.

          When our articles were still new at EZA (60 days according to EZA), there were hundreds to 10's of thousands of internal EZA links to your article on EZA.

          That added boost of "new article" status on EZA artificially inflated the link value on the article within EZA.

          In the first 60 days of placement within EZA, the article was almost guaranteed to have more link popularity on EZA than on any other website on the net.

          And when the initial 60 days had expired, those hundreds or thousands of links to your article from within EZA to your article in EZA would disappear forever.

          Those who rise fast, die fast...
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        • Profile picture of the author Matt281
          Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

          She doesn't.


          My impression is that this tended to be an "issue" for people much more often a year or two ago than it is now, anyway. (Perhaps partly because of the "Panda update"?).

          I know when I started, I could put an article on my brand new site and have it indexed there, and then put it in EZA and the EZA copy would immediately outrank me. Now that was annoying. Understandable, but still annoying. It was temporary, of course, and the more you build up your own site the less it happens anyway.

          But it was because of that, that people used to think "Eew, well, the EZA copy ranks better than mine, so I'll send all my traffic there instead" and start building backlinks only to that copy (even if they lost 75% of their traffic there because their CTR was 25%!). Whereupon, of course, the ceiling descends on them, and lo and behold they end up with a site which can't even outrank an article directory, typically not realising that they've done it to themselves by accentuating the problem instead of resolving it. :rolleyes:



          Indeed. This isn't the reason for doing so at all.

          Thanks (and thanks to tpw too).

          I'm not worried about being outranked by EZA at this point, but rather authority sites that syndicate my content. Maybe the key is just to change the title to a related but not-the-same-keyword title?
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          • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Matt281 View Post

            I'm not worried about being outranked by EZA at this point, but rather authority sites that syndicate my content.
            It can happen.

            It's not a disaster when it does. The targeted traffic from relevant, real authority-sites tends to make it pretty worthwhile, anyway. And it's only one article, if it does happen. All part of life's rich tapestry.

            Originally Posted by Matt281 View Post

            Maybe the key is just to change the title to a related but not-the-same-keyword title?
            Meh ... I don't bother (and don't know if it'll help anyway). I used to change titles, a keyword and the first sentence. I spent about a year doing it that way. I don't know whether I actually gained anything from it.

            The thing is, if you do enough of this, you'll soon enough have a PR-5/PR-6 landing-page yourself (not that your articles will normally be on that page, of course), if Google keeps on doing "page ranks" at all, that is - but you have to take a long-term, cumulative-benefit perspective, anyway.
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            • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
              At this stage of the game I don't know if adding my two cents is going to
              amount to a hill of beans as Alexa, Paul, Bill and others have given some
              wonderful advice, but I'm going to stick my nose in anyway.

              Too many people get caught up in the "mechanics" of syndication and forget
              that the article itself needs to be of true benefit to the person reading it. Thus,
              the content is crap and all the mechanics in the world don't do squat.

              I've written countless thousands of articles online. I don't put my name on
              it unless I'm sure that it's as good as it can possibly be. The rest just comes
              when people are looking for information that's actually worth putting on their
              site.

              So by all means, take advantage of the syndication tips you've received. It's
              really not rocket science.

              But at the end of the day, if your content is crap, you're just wasting your
              time.

              My 2 1/2 cents on the subject.
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            • Profile picture of the author Joe Pace
              Alexa,

              I recall you saying there is a way you track your articles, so that you know where they are being published. You use some kind of little trick when you write them, so you can find the article easier.

              I can't find the thread where you talked about that... I apologize.

              Thx
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              • Originally Posted by Joe Pace View Post

                Alexa,

                I recall you saying there is a way you track your articles, so that you know where they are being published. You use some kind of little trick when you write them, so you can find the article easier.

                I can't find the thread where you talked about that... I apologize.

                Thx
                I remember that post - I believe she called it the punctuation method, and all she does is put a different punctuation mark somewhere in the title. This way she can tell immediately where it was syndicated. Nice little trick....
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  • Profile picture of the author DireStraits
    So I stealthily drop in to "thank" Andy for his insightful followup contribution (duly received and digested with interest thanks to instant email notifications ), but his posts are none to be found ... :confused:

    Oh well ... thanks anyhow. :p
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    • Profile picture of the author blalock61
      Originally Posted by DireStraits View Post

      So I stealthily drop in to "thank" Andy for his insightful followup contribution (duly received and digested with interest thanks to instant email notifications ), but his posts are none to be found ... :confused:

      Oh well ... thanks anyhow. :p
      He deleted his contribution and used it to start a new thread found by clicking here.
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      • Profile picture of the author myob
        Certainly I don't have the "definitive" marketing method. But I have often tried to share what has worked most astoundingly well for me. As far as the basics, it is really not much different from what Alexa has posted except perhaps in scale, volume and some process automation.

        The basic principle is the same: write quality articles, post on your website, submit to selected top article directories for syndication (I only use EZA currently), and market your articles to context-relevant targeted outlets. This is my entire article marketing model in one sentence.

        My rapidly growing syndication network currently consists of 62 niches with over 25,000 outlets which include websites/blogs, ezines/newsletters, and offline publications such as magazines, trade journals, newspapers, etc. New outlets are being added daily, and I start another niche about every 4 months. I actually do very little writing anymore, almost all of this is handled by my inhouse staff of full-time researchers/writers.

        As far as articles, each niche will receive an average of 1-2 articles per week although, even this varies as some niches will only need one article per month. Nearly all of my syndicated outlets receive articles automatically through RSS feeds, some through autoresponder list broadcasting, and others manually by email, fax or even mail. I do not provide any "exclusive" content; this only hampers production with no real additional benefit. I have a self-hosted autoresponder for the one reason my lists are so huge; any commercial autoresponder has these basic list management features.

        An excellent resource I use daily for finding niche ezine publishers is the Directory of Ezines (directoryofezines.com), and for offline publications Writers' Market (available through Amazon or major bookstores) provides listings by market for magazines. By far, the most powerful (but much more difficult) is to get your articles accepted on authoritative and high-ranking websites or blogs. Generally, initial solicitation contact for syndication is through email with a link to my articles showcased on EZA or relevant niche websites.

        I think it is significant to point out that neither Alexa nor I actually produce very many articles per niche. It really does not take many articles at all to drive convertible traffic when these articles are appealingly relevant to your target market. Wide syndication has a secondary benefit of providing quality backlinks.

        For example, one of my niches is in the medical field. My articles are syndicated in high authority medically oriented medical websites, blogs, ezines, and offline outlets such as clinical journals, health magazines, medical school newsletters, and faculty publications. This is the exact same article syndication marketing model I use in dozens of other niches; targeting real people who read these type of articles. The benefit of such authoritative positioning is buyers tend to nearly reflexively base purchase decisions on recommendations when faced with other competitive options.

        This is no "secret" or "magic" method. It is just best business practices and marketing. An excellent ebook which I very often recommend (and for very good reasons) is "Turn Words Into Traffic" by Jim Edwards. The author is a former syndicated newspaper columnist and VP of a SEO company. Although written about 15 years ago I believe, it is even more applicable today than ever before in light of the Panda update. The basics of sound writing and marketing principles seldom change.
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        • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
          I guess you can pencil me somewhere in the middle, as far as systems go.

          As the others have said, the basics don't change.

          Most of those in my network ar mainly interested in getting content, exclusivity is not an issue. These folks get new content via a self-hosted AR program I use as a group mailer.

          As Bill said, if the potential rewards are there, I will furnish exclusive content. Happens a few times a year...

          Paul (myob), thanks for the reminder on using Writer's Market. Can't believe I let that one slide.
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        • Profile picture of the author archetype
          Originally Posted by myob View Post

          Certainly I don't have the "definitive" marketing method. But I have often tried to share what has worked most astoundingly well for me. As far as the basics, it is really not much different from what Alexa has posted except perhaps in scale, volume and some process automation.

          The basic principle is the same: write quality articles, post on your website, submit to selected top article directories for syndication (I only use EZA currently), and market your articles to context-relevant targeted outlets. This is my entire article marketing model in one sentence.

          My rapidly growing syndication network currently consists of 62 niches with over 25,000 outlets which include websites/blogs, ezines/newsletters, and offline publications such as magazines, trade journals, newspapers, etc. New outlets are being added daily, and I start another niche about every 4 months. I actually do very little writing anymore, almost all of this is handled by my inhouse staff of full-time researchers/writers.

          As far as articles, each niche will receive an average of 1-2 articles per week although, even this varies as some niches will only need one article per month. Nearly all of my syndicated outlets receive articles automatically through RSS feeds, some through autoresponder list broadcasting, and others manually by email, fax or even mail. I do not provide any "exclusive" content; this only hampers production with no real additional benefit. I have a self-hosted autoresponder for the one reason my lists are so huge; any commercial autoresponder has these basic list management features.

          An excellent resource I use daily for finding niche ezine publishers is the Directory of Ezines (directoryofezines.com), and for offline publications Writers' Market (available through Amazon or major bookstores) provides listings by market for magazines. By far, the most powerful (but much more difficult) is to get your articles accepted on authoritative and high-ranking websites or blogs. Generally, initial solicitation contact for syndication is through email with a link to my articles showcased on EZA or relevant niche websites.

          I think it is significant to point out that neither Alexa nor I actually produce very many articles per niche. It really does not take voluminous submissions to drive convertable traffic when your articles are appealingly relevant to your target market. Wide syndication has a secondary benefit of providing quality backlinks.

          For example, one of my niches is in the medical field. My articles are syndicated in high authority medically oriented medical websites, blogs, ezines, and offline outlets such as clinical journals, health magazines, medical school newsletters, and faculty publications. This is the exact same article syndication marketing model I use in dozens of other niches; targeting real people who read these type of articles. The benefit of such authoritative positioning is buyers tend to nearly reflexively base purchase decisions on recommendations when faced with other competitive options.

          This is no "secret" or "magic" method. It is just best business practices and marketing. An excellent ebook which I very often recommend (and for very good reasons) is "Turn Words Into Traffic" by Jim Edwards. The author is a former syndicated newspaper columnist and VP of a SEO company. Although written about 15 years ago I believe, it is even more applicable today than ever before in light of the Panda update. The basics of sound writing and marketing principles seldom change.
          Amazingly helpful and informative post. The kind of info I'd be willing to pay for and can get here for free. Thanks
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        • Profile picture of the author plongmire
          Originally Posted by myob View Post

          Certainly I don't have the "definitive" marketing method. But I have often tried to share what has worked most astoundingly well for me. As far as the basics, it is really not much different from what Alexa has posted except perhaps in scale, volume and some process automation.

          The basic principle is the same: write quality articles, post on your website, submit to selected top article directories for syndication (I only use EZA currently), and market your articles to context-relevant targeted outlets. This is my entire article marketing model in one sentence.

          My rapidly growing syndication network currently consists of 62 niches with over 25,000 outlets which include websites/blogs, ezines/newsletters, and offline publications such as magazines, trade journals, newspapers, etc. New outlets are being added daily, and I start another niche about every 4 months. I actually do very little writing anymore, almost all of this is handled by my inhouse staff of full-time researchers/writers.

          As far as articles, each niche will receive an average of 1-2 articles per week although, even this varies as some niches will only need one article per month. Nearly all of my syndicated outlets receive articles automatically through RSS feeds, some through autoresponder list broadcasting, and others manually by email, fax or even mail. I do not provide any "exclusive" content; this only hampers production with no real additional benefit. I have a self-hosted autoresponder for the one reason my lists are so huge; any commercial autoresponder has these basic list management features.

          An excellent resource I use daily for finding niche ezine publishers is the Directory of Ezines (directoryofezines.com), and for offline publications Writers' Market (available through Amazon or major bookstores) provides listings by market for magazines. By far, the most powerful (but much more difficult) is to get your articles accepted on authoritative and high-ranking websites or blogs. Generally, initial solicitation contact for syndication is through email with a link to my articles showcased on EZA or relevant niche websites.

          I think it is significant to point out that neither Alexa nor I actually produce very many articles per niche. It really does not take voluminous submissions to drive convertable traffic when your articles are appealingly relevant to your target market. Wide syndication has a secondary benefit of providing quality backlinks.

          For example, one of my niches is in the medical field. My articles are syndicated in high authority medically oriented medical websites, blogs, ezines, and offline outlets such as clinical journals, health magazines, medical school newsletters, and faculty publications. This is the exact same article syndication marketing model I use in dozens of other niches; targeting real people who read these type of articles. The benefit of such authoritative positioning is buyers tend to nearly reflexively base purchase decisions on recommendations when faced with other competitive options.

          This is no "secret" or "magic" method. It is just best business practices and marketing. An excellent ebook which I very often recommend (and for very good reasons) is "Turn Words Into Traffic" by Jim Edwards. The author is a former syndicated newspaper columnist and VP of a SEO company. Although written about 15 years ago I believe, it is even more applicable today than ever before in light of the Panda update. The basics of sound writing and marketing principles seldom change.
          Ok i went and got all the resources mentioned above this week. Started writing longer articles, and built a ezine list that i send emails too.

          Just got an email from one of the ezines and they told me that they will be featuring my article in their next ezine.

          Just wanted to say, it works.

          tks for this thread,
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  • Profile picture of the author AlphaWarrior
    To Alexa and MYOB, in the articles that you email, do you put 2 or 3 backlinks in the content or do you just put them in a footer like the article directories?

    Thanks!
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    • Profile picture of the author myob
      Originally Posted by AlphaWarrior View Post

      ...in the articles that you email, do you put 2 or 3 backlinks in the content or do you just put them in a footer like the article directories?
      This would of course depend on the intent of your article. IMO, unnecessary backlinks within the article body could be distractive to authoritative intent. None of my articles have any undertones of being "salesy", even within the resource box. This may seem counter-intuitive, but amidst the noise and clamor of competing promotions posing as "articles", subtlety in contrast shouts the loudest. Providing valued content without any overt self-promotion gives you the best chance for wide syndication.

      Having said that, I often do have as many as 3-6 hyperlinks within the body of my articles particulary on high authority websites. Ostensibly, this gives readers expanded information of the topic or cited references, but more importantly for me it drives convertable traffic to my websites. And all articles have one simple call to action in the resource box, to go to my niche website. That is where the sales funnel process begins.
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      • Profile picture of the author missmystery
        Originally Posted by myob View Post

        This would of course depend on the intent of your article. IMO, unnecessary backlinks within the article body could be distractive to authoritative intent. None of my articles have any undertones of being "salesy", even within the resource box. This may seem counter-intuitive, but amidst the noise and clamor of competing promotions posing as "articles", subtlety in contrast shouts the loudest. Providing valued content without any overt self-promotion gives you the best chance for wide syndication.

        Having said that, I often do have as many as 3-6 hyperlinks within the body of my articles particulary on high authority websites. Ostensibly, this gives readers expanded information of the topic or cited references, but more importantly for me it drives convertable traffic to my websites. And all articles have one simple call to action in the resource box, to go to my niche website. That is where the sales funnel process begins.

        First off, this is a great thread. I have a question, what makes you decide to put your links in? I'm trying to get into the weight loss niche, and none of my articles are selling anything, but if a link to my site from this article would be beneficial without crippling syndication potential, I'm wondering what makes you decide when to and when to not include a link?

        (Eg.. perhaps you add links to all your ezine ones, or a particular directory)
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        • Profile picture of the author cjreynolds
          Originally Posted by myob
          Having said that, I often do have as many as 3-6 hyperlinks within the body of my articles particulary on high authority websites. Ostensibly, this gives readers expanded information of the topic or cited references, but more importantly for me it drives convertable traffic to my websites. And all articles have one simple call to action in the resource box, to go to my niche website. That is where the sales funnel process begins.
          So you're including 1 link to your blog/website in the resource box, and 2 - 5 links to relevant articles on your site, or other authority sites?
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          I just added this sig so I can refer to it in my posts...

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        • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
          Banned
          Originally Posted by missmystery View Post

          I have a question
          I think you're asking Paul ... and he'll doubtless reply anyway, but meanwhile please excuse an additional answer, here ...

          Originally Posted by missmystery View Post

          none of my articles are selling anything
          For myself, I don't look at articles as a way of selling anything. (Nobody's going to syndicate an article that looks as if it's selling something, and it isn't going to attract much traffic to my site, either).

          My articles are (from my perspective) just to attract traffic to my sites. From others' perspectives, they're to "entertain, educate and inform" (they have to be - otherwise others won't share them with their already-targeted traffic, publish them in their ezines/magazines/newletters/whatever and on their websites).

          So articles relate to niches, not to products, for me.

          Originally Posted by missmystery View Post

          if a link to my site from this article would be beneficial without crippling syndication potential, I'm wondering what makes you decide when to and when to not include a link?
          I always have a resource-box link to my landing-page (and sometimes an additional link, if there are two, to some other page of my site to which I don't mind getting some targeted traffic and for which I don't mind having extra backlinks on relevant sites, in the case of websites, that is).

          There's no point in letting an article go out without my link.

          Hoping I've been helpful rather than confusing ...
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          • Profile picture of the author myob
            Originally Posted by missmystery View Post

            First off, this is a great thread. I have a question, what makes you decide to put your links in? I'm trying to get into the weight loss niche, and none of my articles are selling anything, but if a link to my site from this article would be beneficial without crippling syndication potential, I'm wondering what makes you decide when to and when to not include a link?

            (Eg.. perhaps you add links to all your ezine ones, or a particular directory)
            Originally Posted by cjreynolds View Post

            So you're including 1 link to your blog/website in the resource box, and 2 - 5 links to relevant articles on your site, or other authority sites?

            Let me first briefly summarize my sales process, which will help you to better understand the reasoning for having links within the body of the article. In general, publishers will not allow links within the article itself, unless it can be shown that it is not self-serving or promotional. But it is standard practice to have at least one link in the resource box at the end of the article. Never let your article leave home without it.

            A very common mistake that article marketers make, however, is to try to sell products directly from their articles. This has a crippling effect not only on syndication potential, but ironically also on sales potential. Neither publishers nor their subscribers want to read "sales letters" thinly disguised as articles. Even so-called "product reviews" more often are causing jaded prospects to reflexively roll up their eyeballs. :rolleyes:

            A simple formula I use is to drive massive traffic to my sales funnel using articles. In its highest leveraged form, the article marketing model begins with article syndication; marketing articles to context-relevant outlets and publishers. But the sales process begins only after targeted readers click on the link within the resource box, or in some cases within the article body.

            To maximize sales, it is critically important for your articles not to appear "salesy", or even self-promotional at all. Providing quality and value begins the nearly simultaneous process of wide distribution through syndication, and the build-up of highly targeted and warm traffic to your website. This extended reach has a profound effect, as your reading audience can be just as receptive as if they were your own "subscribers".

            When allowed, I often have links within the article body for added reference, expanded explanation, or citations from authoritative sources. All of these links point to my website first, then the reader is forwarded to the original, off-site referenced source. What this does is provide added exposure to other resources on my website including ... the product I'm selling.
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  • Profile picture of the author WebDiva7
    I too am thankful the OP posted here instead of PM'ing.

    I have two questions, as it seems the subject of article syndication has come up more frequently as of late.

    1. How do you know when your article has been indexed? I can see whether my site is indexed but I have difficulty in figuring out if the actual articles are indexed.

    2. Do you write for people or clicks? From the reading of related posts, it seems you write for people, but does that mean you neglect the keyword theory all together? Like do you just start writing and put it out there or do you subscribe to the find a keyword and build your article around it method?

    TIA
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  • Profile picture of the author Istvan Horvath
    #2. Writing for people and cleverly using keywords are not excluding each other
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    • Profile picture of the author WebDiva7
      Thanks, Istvan.

      To be clear you are saying I shouldn't disregard keyword research but not make it obvious that I am using a keyword?
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      • Profile picture of the author Istvan Horvath
        Originally Posted by WebDiva7 View Post

        To be clear you are saying I shouldn't disregard keyword research but not make it obvious that I am using a keyword?
        Bingo!

        I have always been convinced that any content put out on the net should be for humans: real people, real readers. If it's good and visitors come and talk about it (i.e. link to it, refer others to it etc.), eventually search engines will come, too.

        Now, if you are in the quick buck "business model" then this might be viewed as time consuming.
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        • Profile picture of the author myob
          Originally Posted by Istvan Horvath View Post

          Bingo!
          I could not have said that better myself.
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        • Profile picture of the author minisitetycoon
          Originally Posted by Istvan Horvath View Post

          Bingo!

          I have always been convinced that any content put out on the net should be for humans: real people, real readers. If it's good and visitors come and talk about it (i.e. link to it, refer others to it etc.), eventually search engines will come, too.
          Yes I agree wholeheartedly, all online marketers are sharp and must be treated as intelligently as you think of yourself. Content from the heart and mind sells the best. Us humans like that. X )
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      • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
        Banned
        Originally Posted by WebDiva7 View Post

        you are saying I shouldn't disregard keyword research but not make it obvious that I am using a keyword?
        Very good description, too: much better to write for people than for search engines.

        I don't measure my "keyword density" but am sometimes horrified by forum comments that people should aim for 3%+ keyword density.

        At Ezine Articles, anything over 2% gets you an automated rejection from their software without even getting your article in front of a human editor, the very reasonable assumption being that if you mention the major keyword as often as twice in 100 words, it's probably going to be "clunky" to read and look more like "advertorial" than "information".
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        • Profile picture of the author onSubie
          Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

          Very good description, too: much better to write for people than for search engines.

          I don't measure my "keyword density" but am sometimes horrified by forum comments that people should aim for 3%+ keyword density.

          At Ezine Articles, anything over 2% gets you an automated rejection from their software without even getting your article in front of a human editor, the very reasonable assumption being that if you mention the major keyword as often as twice in 100 words, it's probably going to be "clunky" to read and look more like "advertorial" than "information".

          Out of curiosity, is this an example of over-using keywords to create a clunky advertorial that would be rejected by EZA?

          You used the following words excessively according your guidelines and EZA:

          people = 2x in less than 100 words
          keyword density = 2x in less than 100 words
          keyword = 3x in less than 100 words

          Would the above text be automatically rejected by software and never get to a human review?

          My question is, how does EZA determine which keywords you are targeting?

          Using a keyword more than 3 times in 100 words is far from unreadable.

          Are writers being unfairly punished for "overusing" words?

          All you have to do is read the game summary for a football game in a sports magazine to see the team name and city name used at a much higher than 3-4% density.

          Mahlon
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          • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
            Banned
            Originally Posted by onSubie View Post

            You used the following words excessively according your guidelines and EZA:
            I'll make sure not to submit that post to EZA, then. If I can ever overcome the sense of disappointment, futility and frustration ...

            Originally Posted by onSubie View Post

            My question is, how does EZA determine which keywords you are targeting?
            Curious way of asking it, by prefacing it with a "forum post critique". But thank you (I think). The answer is "by asking you": there's a box into which you type your keywords. (And it will suggest keywords for you, if you're not sure.)

            Originally Posted by onSubie View Post

            All you have to do is read the game summary for a football game in a sports magazine to see the team name and city name used at a much higher than 3-4% density.
            Thanks for the warning, Mahlon ... maybe I'll give football a miss for my next niche, after all, then ... :p
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            • Profile picture of the author onSubie
              Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

              Curious way of asking it, by prefacing it with a "forum post critique".
              I am terribly sorry- I did not intend it to sound critical in anyway. I thought what you wrote was bang on.

              If I was intending any criticism it would be at automated tools that can't actually read and are programmed on cold 'percentages'. But I wasn't actually being critical of them either. Just a point of curiosity about how the line is split between clear prose (as you posted) and keyword stuffed advertorials that are usually obvious to a human reader.

              I just thought the football analogy was a good one, if you have ever read a game summary played (for example) in Jacksonville, at the Jacksonville Stadium by the Jacksonville Jaguars.

              Mahlon
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              • Profile picture of the author myob
                Such a comparison to EZA's policy with sports writing or even prose is really not a valid analogy at all. In your example you are confusing style with function. In the instance of EZA, they are of course acutely aware of the abuse of key-word stuffing and have alogorithms in place for this specific detection. The higher writing standards expected even in sports reporting on the other hand, would factor SEO manipulation out systemically in favor of proper elements of style and readability.
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  • Profile picture of the author willN
    Maybe I am out of my depth here. But would it not be a simpler, more streamlined process to use an RSS feed from your website to feed articles for a particular niche? You would have to have a seperate feed for each niche, but your articles would be pushed to the interested parties automatically. I suppose there is something to be said about being personable, but this is an E-world after all.

    The only downfall I see with this method is that alot of folks might want to read the article before posting it. I believe I saw an RSS to Email application for fairly cheap a while back. I would have to search for it again though.

    Again I might be out of my depth, if so, just tell me to close my yap and listen

    Will
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    • Profile picture of the author myob
      Originally Posted by willN View Post

      Maybe I am out of my depth here. But would it not be a simpler, more streamlined process to use an RSS feed from your website to feed articles for a particular niche? You would have to have a seperate feed for each niche, but your articles would be pushed to the interested parties automatically. I suppose there is something to be said about being personable, but this is an E-world after all.

      The only downfall I see with this method is that alot of folks might want to read the article before posting it. I believe I saw an RSS to Email application for fairly cheap a while back. I would have to search for it again though.

      Again I might be out of my depth, if so, just tell me to close my yap and listen

      Will
      This process was indeed glossed over, Will, and thanks for bringing attention to an important point. An RSS feed is a tremendous time-saver, and one of the principal methods I use for article distribution (see post #28). I believe most if not all commercial autoresponders do have an RSS feed to email option.
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      • Profile picture of the author Joe Pace
        Originally Posted by myob View Post

        This process was indeed glossed over, Will, and thanks for bringing attention to an important point. An RSS feed is a tremendous time-saver, and one of the principal methods I use for article distribution (see post #28). I believe most if not all commercial autoresponders do have an RSS feed to email option.
        Paul,

        Just a fast question on the distribution method...

        When you send people your articles through email, how do you distribute the article?

        Do you attach it as a .txt file, include it in the email itself, or in some other manner?
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  • Profile picture of the author willN
    I read this whole thread too. I think my short term memory is going. At least I made a valid point even if it was made before. All to often I have no point at all.

    Thanks Myob

    Will
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      Originally Posted by willN View Post

      Maybe I am out of my depth here. But would it not be a simpler, more streamlined process to use an RSS feed from your website to feed articles for a particular niche? You would have to have a seperate feed for each niche, but your articles would be pushed to the interested parties automatically. I suppose there is something to be said about being personable, but this is an E-world after all.

      The only downfall I see with this method is that alot of folks might want to read the article before posting it. I believe I saw an RSS to Email application for fairly cheap a while back. I would have to search for it again though.

      Again I might be out of my depth, if so, just tell me to close my yap and listen

      Will
      Will, your yap is fine, but if it stays open too long, you tend to attract flies...

      RSS feeds are indeed an important component, although with the exception of promoting the feed, I tend to put this in the 'passive syndication' area. Don't get me wrong - passive syndication like having sites pick up the RSS feed or grab an article from a directory is wonderful. You just don't have much control over it once it's 'out there'...
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      • Profile picture of the author willN
        Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

        Will, your yap is fine, but if it stays open too long, you tend to attract flies...

        RSS feeds are indeed an important component, although with the exception of promoting the feed, I tend to put this in the 'passive syndication' area. Don't get me wrong - passive syndication like having sites pick up the RSS feed or grab an article from a directory is wonderful. You just don't have much control over it once it's 'out there'...
        I would think that a private feed for syndication would be adequate, then you could restrict access to said feed to those you have approved to post your content. Or am I incorrect in thinking that a feed can be protected? As far as the issue of control, couldn't the same thing be said about any article you post anywhere by any method?

        Will
        And I will gladly let the flies in if I can use them to get me a fish like the one your holding
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        • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
          Originally Posted by willN View Post

          I would think that a private feed for syndication would be adequate, then you could restrict access to said feed to those you have approved to post your content. Or am I incorrect in thinking that a feed can be protected? As far as the issue of control, couldn't the same thing be said about any article you post anywhere by any method?

          Will
          And I will gladly let the flies in if I can use them to get me a fish like the one your holding
          I hadn't really considered private feeds, as most of them require that the blog also be private. Interesting idea, though. Might be worth investigating setting up a private blog just for syndication.

          Thanks...

          FWIW, that big ol' girl didn't hit on a fly. She ate a sardine about six inches long...
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          • I've been following a lot of the posts on the syndication subject too and am becoming increasingly interested in the business model you two follow.

            One of the things I'm curious about is what happens when you stop creating articles or take a long break from your work? I noticed you both seem to agree that a niche needs articles once or twice a week (which certainly sounds reasonable to do), although Paul did mention that once a month was enough for certain niches.

            So, what happens to your income when you "turn off the flow" of content? Does it continue but slowly dwindle off? Does it dip suddenly and drastically? Or is it safe to say you're building a solid asset here that will continue to pay if you take an extended break from your work?

            Another thing I'm curious about is how you go about getting started in a new niche with this marketing model...particularly if you are someone who is newer at the process and a little more eager to get the income flowing. More specifically, do you write, post, and syndicate more articles coming out of the gate and then taper off after the first couple months, or do you typically just write 1 or 2 per week from the get-go?

            I'm very curious to check out the Jim Edward's book and will give it a read soon. As a writer and someone who has always believed in the potential of solid content, I'm really starting to like the sound of article syndication. One thing that has always turned me off about IM (as many people do it) is the feeling that I'm somehow gaming the search engines - not to mention my concerns of that being a viable long-term strategy.

            Thanks!
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            • Profile picture of the author myob
              Originally Posted by dru-man View Post

              One of the things I'm curious about is what happens when you stop creating articles or take a long break from your work? I noticed you both seem to agree that a niche needs articles once or twice a week (which certainly sounds reasonable to do), although Paul did mention that once a month was enough for certain niches.

              So, what happens to your income when you "turn off the flow" of content? Does it continue but slowly dwindle off? Does it dip suddenly and drastically? Or is it safe to say you're building a solid asset here that will continue to pay if you take an extended break from your work?

              Another thing I'm curious about is how you go about getting started in a new niche with this marketing model...particularly if you are someone who is newer at the process and a little more eager to get the income flowing. More specifically, do you write, post, and syndicate more articles coming out of the gate and then taper off after the first couple months, or do you typically just write 1 or 2 per week from the get-go?
              With an automated system in place, I can often take off for a month or two and have articles queued up in my blogs and autoresponders. Most commercial autoresponders have a scheduling feature, and of course with blogs you can set up a drip feed. I am also never without my smartphone and/or tablet pc. No one ever knows when I'm not working or just goofing off.

              Starting a new niche (assuming you have done all the preliminary market research, keywords, etc) is a matter of building a website, putting up some content, writing a few initial articles (I write a minimum of 10), and then begin submitting these to EZA. Within a month, you should start getting articles syndicated and generating income. From then on I would write at most about 3 articles a week. Most of my time would be in marketing these articles to niche ezine publishers, websites/blogs, and other outlets.
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          • Profile picture of the author Ryan David
            Hopefully you have a plan for what to do with the subscribers once you get them on your list. All the syndicated articles/networks in the world don't solve the problem of a bad business model.
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  • Profile picture of the author willN
    Now that is interesting. A private blog with a carefully distributed RSS feed for syndication. And if you want a public version of the blog, just feed to it from your private blog and disable re-feeding from the public side. I think I might try that also.

    Sorry for going a little off topic from the OP.
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  • Profile picture of the author Astron
    Alexa,

    May I ask you what percentage of your visitors comes from your syndicated articles? So without doing any SEO, excluding the search engine traffic? Also, roughly how many visitors do you get from your syndicated articles? I`m just curious about the potencials of article syndication if somebody does this for a living...
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Astron View Post

      May I ask you what percentage of your visitors comes from your syndicated articles? So without doing any SEO, excluding the search engine traffic?
      Typically something like 75%. But see also the comment nearer the end about the other 25%.

      It actually varies a little from niche to niche.

      In a couple of my niches, in which I do well from fairly non-competitive, longer-tail keywords, I get significant organic traffic without doing any SEO to speak of, simply because when articles are syndicated to other websites, they tend more or less by definition to be relevant websites, and that gives the backlinks enormous link-juice compared with all the non-context-relevant backlinks I used to get from all the mass submission to article directories and so on which wasted my time for so long.

      Originally Posted by Astron View Post

      Also, roughly how many visitors do you get from your syndicated articles?
      It varies enormously. The bottom line here is that I haven't yet been doing it for long enough (only two-and-a-half years successfully) to know the answer to this. In contrast to the "rinse-and-repeat" method of trying to use article directories for their own traffic and their own "backlinks", it's a business model which gradually builds and builds.

      Of course, there's also some luck involved with individual articles and what they'll bring in. It feel like the longer I do this for, the less I'm able to judge that (or perhaps I should say "the more aware I am that predictions with individual articles are guesswork"!) Fortunately it doesn't matter - it's the gradual accumulation that counts.

      You can get an article which (to your surprise) never brings in very much, and another (which might seem a marginally less interesting one, if anything) which can surprise you and pull in 30,000 new visitors.

      Originally Posted by Astron View Post

      I`m just curious about the potencials of article syndication if somebody does this for a living...
      Paul is a far better source of information on that, than I am. I'm a newbie by comparison. It's a real, asset-based business, though ... not a "rinse and repeat", not a "hit and run" ... it genuinely produces increasing residual income from work already done.

      For me, so far (and here I think my business is a little different from Paul's - and I don't know to what extent that should concern me! ), it's never "without SEO", though. It's just that other people are doing some of your off-page SEO for you, sometimes even behind your back.

      Even my short experience is enough to have confirmed over and over again that with this sort of article marketing, although SEO isn't by any means the primary objective at all, you can actually end up with far better SEO and (with careful keyword selection) some higher rankings across the board than you can from mass-submitting to irrelevant, poor quality directories, blog networks, or whatever. Having done both, in my experience there's simply no comparison at all - even in "pure SEO terms". So what I'm saying, simplifying it a lot, is that even the 20%-25% of my income that's still Google-dependent or partly Google-dependent is more than I ever managed to earn without article syndication, when SEO was the primary objective for me.

      I also agree with all Paul's points above: I don't normally comment on this in case it sounds a bit "complacent" but once you're up and running, it's actually easy to take a couple of months off and do very little without your income dropping at all; and it took me 1 - 2 months to start generating some real income from this, once I more or less "got it right" (after plenty of relative failures with other methods, of exactly the types that so many people comment on here).
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    • Profile picture of the author myob
      Originally Posted by Astron View Post

      May I ask you what percentage of your visitors comes from your syndicated articles? So without doing any SEO, excluding the search engine traffic? Also, roughly how many visitors do you get from your syndicated articles? I`m just curious about the potencials of article syndication if somebody does this for a living...
      As Alexa mentioned, my business model is a little different, but the basics are essentially the same. Rather than repeat much of what has already been posted, however, read my previous post #28. Our model really is about building assets in the form of syndicated outlets. These are real business assets, just as for example chainstores are building new outlets within their target markets. Each outlet can have hundreds or hundreds of thousands of potential buyers.

      I've been doing this for a very long time; nearly 15 years. Every day I have been averaging 3-5 new syndicated outlets for my articles. Over the years these outlets have grown to currently more than 25,000 spread over 62 different niches. Every article will be submitted to 200-600 relevant niche publications such as websites/blogs, ezines/newsletters, offline magazines, trade journals, newspapers etc.

      Almost all traffic is generated from my online/offline articles. Direct traffic from the search engines is relatively so insignifant as to be irrelevant for a marketing source. None of my sites rank within any practical position in the SERPs because of the intense competition for keywords/phrases by deep-pocket, entrenched advertisers.

      But I also agree with Alexa, this is never without SEO considerations, although with a slightly different strategy. I've got backlinks from high PR sites that would turn most SEO enthusiasts green with envy, and the effect is starting to show in ranking. As the competition for my niche key words continues, the top sites often change relative postitions in the SERPs. For now, there is just no better place I can imagine to be than consistently having articles on websites that rank among the top 5-10, no matter how Google dances.

      As far as the potential for article syndication, I dunno. Some people are doing much better than me with this method, but I generate an average 40,000 new subscribers per day in the aggregate across all my niches.
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      • Profile picture of the author BillyBee
        Originally Posted by myob View Post

        I've been doing this for a very long time; nearly 15 years. Every day I have been averaging 3-5 new syndicated outlets for my articles. Over the years these outlets have grown to currently more than 25,000 spread over 62 different niches. Every article will be submitted to 200-600 relevant niche publications such as websites/blogs, ezines/newsletters, offline magazines, trade journals, newspapers etc.
        Originally Posted by myob View Post

        Some people are doing much better than me with this method, but I generate an average 40,000 new subscribers per day in the aggregate across all my niches.
        Okay, I could tell you were quite successful, but I almost fell out of my chair seeing these numbers.

        What I like about this method is how simple it is. (Notice I didn't say easy. But I do like simple.)

        And it relies on nothing gimmicky. It's just pure quality content -- the kind that people have always consumed.

        This is extremely exciting -- thanks for this great thread.
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        • Profile picture of the author Joe Pace
          Alexa or Paul,

          I touched on this above but didn't yet get an answer...

          The devil is in the details and I was just wondering how you send your articles to your syndication network when you use email?

          I know it is important to make sure the articles are read by these people, so what is the most effective method to use:

          - .txt attachment?
          - include the article(s) directly in the email?
          - include a link to the article on your blog/site?

          Thx again for any clarity you can give me.
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          • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
            Banned
            Hi Joe ... I don't know that it matters, but I send the article directly in the email, because I don't like sending attachments when I can avoid it (I think there's a better open-rate for emails without them, and one article - and I'm only ever sending one at a time, myself - doesn't make an email "too long").

            I wouldn't send them a link to the article on my own site, for two reasons ...

            (i) I don't exactly want to "force it down their throats" that it's already published (they always are, of course, and I don't pretend otherwise, but equally I don't want to underline the point every single time, and I've often mentioned to them when setting the arrangement up that they're getting articles "not yet submitted to EZA"!);

            (ii) I don't have a resource-box on my site, but I do (effectively - though nobody calls it that: it's just the "last paragraph of the article") on theirs, so the text of the last sentence or two is actually different, anyway: from their sites, I have to draw the traffic to my landing-page, which I don't have to do on my own site.
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          • Profile picture of the author tpw
            Originally Posted by Joe Pace View Post

            Alexa or Paul,

            I touched on this above but didn't yet get an answer...

            The devil is in the details and I was just wondering how you send your articles to your syndication network when you use email?

            I know it is important to make sure the articles are read by these people, so what is the most effective method to use:

            - .txt attachment?
            - include the article(s) directly in the email?
            - include a link to the article on your blog/site?

            Thx again for any clarity you can give me.


            I am not Paul or Alexa, but I put it inside the email in text format (no attachment) and give them a link to where they can get it in HTML format.

            Of course, maybe you don't care what I do... In that case, I am leaving the information for anyone else who might care to know. :rolleyes:
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            Publish Coloring Books for Profit (WSOTD 7-30-2015)
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            • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
              Originally Posted by tpw View Post

              I am not Paul or Alexa, but I put it inside the email in text format (no attachment) and give them a link to where they can get it in HTML format.
              This how I do it also.

              The html version I offer has only very basic formatting applied, so as not to interfere with their CSS.
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        • Profile picture of the author myob
          Originally Posted by BillyBee View Post

          What I like about this method is how simple it is.
          Me too.
          (Notice I didn't say easy. But I do like simple.)
          I have never said it was easy, either. Just simple.
          And it relies on nothing gimmicky. It's just pure quality content -- the kind that people have always consumed.
          Yup!
          This is extremely exciting
          Very.
          thanks for this great thread.
          Yes, thanks.
          Signature
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      • Profile picture of the author Hardik Jogi
        Originally Posted by myob View Post

        As far as the potential for article syndication, I dunno. Some people are doing much better than me with this method, but I generate an average 40,000 new subscribers per day in the aggregate across all my niches.
        Are you sure paul that you average 40,000 new subscribers per day?
        So 40k*30 = 1.2 million new subscribers per month

        My profit is about $1 per subscriber per month.
        If you have same conversion like mine,
        you earn $40,000 per day --> $1.2 million per month! and then every month you add another $1.2 million in profits!!


        Also with which email autoresponder company you have your list with or have a big dedicated server with autoresponder software installed?
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  • Profile picture of the author Astron
    Many thanks for your detailed answer, very helpful! Maybe Paul will share his experiences as well
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  • Thanks so much for all the info you two have given (I seem to have worn out my 'thanks" button browsing through a lot of your older posts).

    Alexa, I understand your hesitance to answer my questions above as I was hesitant to ask for the very same reason. That said, it's a necessary question for anyone when looking at a possible business model, so thanks for taking the time to answer. That helps a lot.

    Can you give you give some advice on niches that work well? I noticed before that Paul likes especially competitive niches, as this is where the money is and he isn't worried about ranking in Google all that much. But can either of you give some insight on to how broad or specific to go?

    Also, are you both only focused on the listbuilding here, or do a few of your sites just go for that affiliate sale from the getgo? I suppose once you've got the syndication network set up it's a simple matter of testing and tracking what works best and perfecting as you go along...
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  • Profile picture of the author cashcow
    average 40,000 new subscribers per day ....
    Yikes!

    This is a great thread, thanks to everyone that has shared and to the OP for posting it!

    Definately a simple method ... but, as stated above, not easy. I think though it's probably one of the more long lasting methods talked about in the forum.

    Lee
    Signature
    Gone Fishing
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  • Profile picture of the author Astron
    Alexa,

    One last question if you don`t mind.. Do you actually know how many of your sales comes from your opt-in subscribers? You mentioned in one of your post before that you have opt-in boxes on every pages of your websites. But you do not force the visitors to subscribe, it`s just an option. I don`t plan do list building in the near future, I was just wondering how effective is that to have this option. Does it make a big difference?
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Astron View Post

      Do you actually know how many of your sales comes from your opt-in subscribers?
      It's not always easy to know this accurately, as an affiliate. (It used to be a little easier, when ClickBank gave affiliates more information). But I've always estimated it - on average across my niches - as 90% of the sales coming from my lists, and I have no "new information" that's changed my overall impression of that.

      Originally Posted by Astron View Post

      I don`t plan do list building in the near future, I was just wondering how effective is that to have this option. Does it make a big difference?
      It does to me: I wasn't able to make any money, to speak of, without lists. Without lists, you can't keep the traffic returning to your site (very few people "buy at their first visit", so you have to get them back somehow?); you can't offer people a range of other products at increasing prices (that's where a lot of the money is), and so forth. For me, it's an almost entirely list-based business model.
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  • Profile picture of the author Astron
    Thanks a lot for your fast reply OMG 90%? But you said that you do not use squeeze pages, you only have the opt-in boxes as an option on your websites. So how come that you have such a big (I guess) opt-in rate?

    Do you tell to your visitors in your resource box to visit your site to download the freebie by subscribing to your list? Do you concentrate on list building in the resource box, or you simply tell them to visit your site for more quality articles?

    I would really try to build list but I don`t wanna use squeeze pages. And I thought if I just put an opt-in box to the sidebar of my websites, then nobody will bother to subscribe, I thought it`s worthless, because my visitors can easily click away on one of my affiliate link in the article..

    Well, for example me, if I read an interesting article I click on the links inside the article to check out the offer..and I never bother with the opt-in forms on the sidebar even if it offers some free ebook or something.
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    • Profile picture of the author DireStraits
      Originally Posted by Astron View Post

      Thanks a lot for your fast reply OMG 90%? But you said that you do not use squeeze pages, you only have the opt-in boxes as an option on your websites. So how come that you have such a big (I guess) opt-in rate?

      Do you tell to your visitors in your resource box to visit your site to download the freebie by subscribing to your list? Do you concentrate on lisbuilding in the resource box, or you simply tell them to visit your site for more quality articles?

      I would really try to build list but I don`t wanna use squeeze pages. And I thought if I just put an opt-in box to the sidebar of my websites, then nobody will bother to subscribe, I thought it`s worthless, becouse my visitors can easily click away on one of my affiliate link in the article..

      Well, for example me, if I read an interesing article I click on the links inside the article to check out the offer..and I never bother with the opt-in forms on the sidebar even if it offers some free ebook or something.
      Hmm. If, as you suggest, people simply don't want whatever is being offered in exchange for their email address, how would that problem be overcome through the use of a squeeze page instead, anyway? :confused:

      Either someone wants what's offered or they don't; if they do, they'll have no choice but to opt in, whether that be through a squeeze page or an opt-in form integrated into your site.

      And why would they click away instead of opting in if what you're enticing them with is of relevance and interest to them? I wouldn't think "G'ah, I really want that free report, but instead I'll just click this and disappear".

      In the end, what you think/do and what your visitors think/do are two different things.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Astron View Post

      But you said that you do not use squeeze pages
      I don't ... I did split-test them (in each of 4 niches with the same findings in all) and built bigger lists with a squeeze-page than with my normal landing-page, but made less money over a 6-month period from the bigger lists. So I reverted to my normal landing-pages for all my niches. And will continue with that in future niches, because the customer demographics will be similar.

      Originally Posted by Astron View Post

      you only have the opt-in boxes as an option on your websites.
      Well, it depends what you mean by "only". They're on every page, and on the landing-page they're prominently displayed and incentivised, with a detailed explanation of all the advantages of "opting in", assurances that their email address will be safe and private with me, that every email will contain an unsubscribe link in case they change their minds, that in addition to the free report (or whatever - I don't actually call them that) they'll hear from me every 5 days with "more of the same" type of information they can find on this site, and so on ... not altogether unlike "squeeze-page wording" but a bit more wordy and a bit less "salesy", I suppose.

      It's undoubtedly true that I do make occasional sales to people who simply don't want to opt in. But they're a really small minority: I couldn't really build my business that way.

      Originally Posted by Astron View Post

      Do you tell to your visitors in your resource box to visit your site to download the freebie by subscribing to your list?
      Nooooo ... I suspect (but don't know for sure) that my syndication-rate would go down, if I did that. I'm happy just to attract targeted traffic without trying to "sell" them on anything before they arrive, and take my chances with them when they do arrive.

      Originally Posted by Astron View Post

      I would really try to build list but I don`t wanna use squeeze pages.
      Why not? They do work very successfully for thousands of marketers, you know ...

      The reason I do better without them myself (I'm pretty sure) is because of something connected to my traffic demographics, which probably wouldn't apply to most people.

      There's nothing intrinsically wrong with squeeze pages. And in some ways they're easier than what I do.

      Originally Posted by Astron View Post

      I thought if I just put an opt-in box to the sidebar of my websites, then nobody will bother to subscribe
      Well, like everything else, "the devil is in the detail" and it depends how you do it, I think ... but I really don't think you should start off by assuming this!

      Originally Posted by Astron View Post

      Well, for example me, if I read an interesting article I click on the links inside the article to check out the offer..and I never bother with the opt-in forms on the sidebar even if it offers some free ebook or something.
      (i) On your landing page, it can be more than just "on the sidebar", perhaps?

      (ii) I feel my "you are not your customers" speech coming on, but Michael already said it, just above ...

      And ... last point ... the fact that I make 90% of my sales to people who have opted in doesn't mean that anything like 90% of my visitors opt in, you know? It just means that 90% of the ones who buy are people who did opt in.
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      • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
        Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

        I don't ... I did split-test them (in each of 4 niches with the same findings in all) and built bigger lists with a squeeze-page than with my normal landing-page, but made less money over a 6-month period from the bigger lists. So I reverted to my normal landing-pages for all my niches. And will continue with that in future niches, because the customer deomgraphics will be similar.
        Astron, there's a huge lesson here, besides the obvious one about testing to see what yields the most profit rather than what results in the biggest list.

        That lesson is that you can use an opt-in, and the mechanics of your opt-in offer, as a filter. By doing things the way she does, Alexa has figured out how to get those likely to respond to the way she does things to respond, and to get the others to filter themselves out.

        This became even more important to the bottom line when autoresponder companies started charging by the number of emails in your database. People unlikely to buy from you, yet opted in from a squeeze page simply to get a freebie (instead of the content you offer) are not just dead weight anymore. They are an active drag on your bottom line.

        I know another marketer whose opt-in page is mainly plain text, and his opt-in bribe is a 112 page ebook. It does a good job filtering people, because his newsletters tend to be quite long and he sends them in plain text. If you respond to the opt-in process, you'll likely respond to the content-and vice versa.
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        • Profile picture of the author Astron
          Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

          If you respond to the opt-in process, you'll likely respond to the content-and vice versa.
          I like that The content, the articles on your website are part of the opt-in process too, since they represent your expertise, authority on the subject.

          So if you provide great content to your visitors, if you solve their problem partly then they will actually WANT to subscribe for more informations on the topic. ( weather the opt-in box is on above-the-fold or on the sidebar
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        • Profile picture of the author archetype
          Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

          Astron, there's a huge lesson here, besides the obvious one about testing to see what yields the most profit rather than what results in the biggest list.

          That lesson is that you can use an opt-in, and the mechanics of your opt-in offer, as a filter. By doing things the way she does, Alexa has figured out how to get those likely to respond to the way she does things to respond, and to get the others to filter themselves out.

          This became even more important to the bottom line when autoresponder companies started charging by the number of emails in your database. People unlikely to buy from you, yet opted in from a squeeze page simply to get a freebie (instead of the content you offer) are not just dead weight anymore. They are an active drag on your bottom line.

          I know another marketer whose opt-in page is mainly plain text, and his opt-in bribe is a 112 page ebook. It does a good job filtering people, because his newsletters tend to be quite long and he sends them in plain text. If you respond to the opt-in process, you'll likely respond to the content-and vice versa.
          Email marketing 2.0 kindof. It's not all about a mass of people, but more about the largest mass who are legitimately interested in your content....these people trust you....people who trust you buy. It's really powerful if someone opts in without a squeeze because many people will ignore a squeeze even if they are interested due to the desire to avoid sharing their address and getting crap they don't want pitched at them. I read lots and lots of sites. I only bookmark a few (never opt in unless I have to then I go straight to email and get out....cmon I get enough email), but the ones I bookmark are those that I trust through quality content and perspective. Then when I'm considering something I'm researching I'll always refer to back to those trusted sites for resolution. If there is something I've thought of buying and I have finally come to a decision I'll make it a point to use those trusted sites affiliate links or buy from them etc. Just kindof proof of the psychology involved there. In my life on the real sales floor I learned quickly not to pitch the customer just because they were standing there....wastes my breath and loses their trust.....I learned instead to have conversations which lead to avenues for a relevant pitch based on the needs/wants/lifestyle that the customer just personally offered to me. I've also learned that real world and online selling don't go exactly hand in hand, but the tenets are the same and this is a good example.
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  • Profile picture of the author Astron
    Thank you for taking time to answer again, really helpful! (to Michael too) I guess my problem is that I see this opt-in..squeeze page thing through "affiliate marketer eyes". I mean not like the "avarage" visitor, I know if somebody wants to sell me something, I know what is an affiliate link, I know if I opt-in to a list I will get emailed with additional offers (for more affiliate comissions) etc. So that`s why I lost track on about what works better and what not..Because sometimes it`s hard to imagine myself in the shoes of my visitors.

    By the way you mentioned a very important thing:

    "you can't offer people a range of other products at increasing prices, that's where a lot of the money is"
    I agree that this is one of the most powerful thing about list building. However sometimes it`s really hard to find related products. What I see on ClickBank is that you can find lots of different products on a subject, but you can`t cross-promote them because they are all about the same thing most of the time. Some example niches:
    Sleep disorder, woodworking plans, how to play on guitar, solar power, etc..I could list here a plenty more.

    So how can I promote additional products (more expensive /advanced products, memberships, etc.) if all the products are basically the same? Almost the same price, the same info...How do you overcome this? Of course it`s really easy to find related products in big markets like IM or weight loss, because there are a lot of subniches in these markets.. but in smaller niches I find it almost impossible because the available products are very similar. Do you promote physical products in addition, like Amazon or CJ products?
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    • Profile picture of the author tpw
      Originally Posted by Astron View Post

      What I see on ClickBank is that you can find lots of different products on a subject, but you can`t cross-promote them because they are all about the same thing most of the time. Some example niches:
      Sleep disorder, woodworking plans, how to play on guitar, solar power, etc..I could list here a plenty more.

      So how can I promote additional products (more expensive /advanced products, memberships, etc.) if all the products are basically the same? Almost the same price, the same info...How do you overcome this?

      Of course it`s really easy to find related products in big markets like IM or weight loss, because there are a lot of subniches in these markets.. but in smaller niches I find it almost impossible because the available products are very similar. Do you promote physical products in addition, like Amazon or CJ products?

      How about selling physical products too?

      For example, if you are in the woodworking niche, you could sign up for an affiliate program with Amazon and sell them the equipment to use with their woodworking projects.... "I use the xyz router, and this is why..."

      For example, in weight loss, "My friend used the abc supplements, and it helped by..."
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      Publish Coloring Books for Profit (WSOTD 7-30-2015)
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    • Profile picture of the author myob
      Originally Posted by Astron View Post

      ....So how can I promote additional products (more expensive /advanced products, memberships, etc.) if all the products are basically the same? Almost the same price, the same info...How do you overcome this? Of course it`s really easy to find related products in big markets like IM or weight loss, because there are a lot of subniches in these markets.. but in smaller niches I find it almost impossible because the available products are very similar. Do you promote physical products in addition, like Amazon or CJ products?
      As Istvan said before after a similar moment of epiphany:
      Originally Posted by Istvan Horvath View Post

      Bingo!
      It's starting to show more and more how simple this process really is and the sound marketing and logic flow of what we're talking about. I build my niche lists with initial sales of inexpensive Clickbank products. These buyers are then led on a journey of discovery with daily promotions and valuable content to incrementally higher end products using other related CB products and from affiliate programs such as Linkshare, Shareasale, Amazon, etc. Some of my subscribers for example started years ago through $17 Clickbank products and a few are now even buying 5+ figure Amazon products. Choosing the wider niches offers more options and diversity in product selection. I just like to keep everything simple.
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      “If I have seen further than others, it is by standing upon the shoulders of giants.” – Isaac Newton
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      • Profile picture of the author archetype
        Originally Posted by myob View Post

        As Istvan said before after a similar moment of epiphany:

        It's starting to show more and more how simple this process really is and the sound marketing and logic flow of what we're talking about. I build my niche lists with initial sales of inexpensive Clickbank products. These buyers are then led on a journey of discovery with daily promotions and valuable content to incrementally higher end products using other related CB products and from affiliate programs such as Linkshare, Shareasale, Amazon, etc. Some of my subscribers for example started years ago through $17 Clickbank products and a few are now even buying 5+ figure Amazon products. Choosing the wider niches offers more options and diversity in product selection. I just like to keep everything simple.
        I hate to repeat myself but you as well as Alexa and others are giving away info that so many people would pay for. While at the same time making sales since I see a warrior signed up just now lol. It's awesome and genius and perfect and just what I always imagined before the real world of IMing crushed my passion in favor of chasing the "established system"

        As still a relatively new IMer who has the jist but hasn't "taken off" by a long, long way this thread alone is shedding light on how syndication done the quality way works. I came to IMing because of a passion to "break the chains" and also because I love to read and write and saw it as an outlet for that while at the same time profitable. Not long into I realized I might have to give up my desire for sharing my real passions and already established knowledge in order to pick niches that were profitable yet attainable....and being the "free-spirited" type I thought "this sucks", but being the "alright I'm in and now I'm not letting this thing kick my @$$" type I wasn't about to give up. I kept digging and digging and getting more and more until finally I've been successful at getting pages positioned through SEO strategies (especially tiered linking).

        What I've found is that, though I'm someone with a resonable amount of potential as a writer (at least my Mom says so) the content I churn out has been ok....but below the standard I like due to picking topics I'm not comfortable with, but that I know I can SEO and sell.

        Now, it works of course and probably even more effectively in the hands of a much more dangerous marketer in terms of conversion (hey I'm learning...give me some time!!!) but I would much rather focus on content and writing stuff that I'm actually proud of while submitting it to places I'm actually comfortable submitting to.

        Many marketers hate/fear content becuase they are salespersons, not writers. In my case I love writing and have learned a bit about sales since it has been my full time profession for the last six years. Just like when I was selling on the floor I have always been attracted to the idea of doing it naturally.....without selling (or at least seemingly so) and the syndication method that the Warrior gurus have so selflessly offered does exactly that.

        So....this is how people generate traffic and income without spending all their time and effort using shady methods to get their newly made sites positioned above years old sites with hundreds or thousands of backlinks? By writing quality content that interested readers actually read and gain value from....regardless of how SEOable it is???? Well that's abso-freaking-lutely absurd.

        I'm sorry if I sound completely stupid, but I probably am.....and that's coupled with the fact that this is very refreshing and exciting and gives me a whole new approach to take with my personal IM journey.....and that's tripled with the fact that I might be a little drunk....proof that you should never drink and post (not that I'm a lot more coherent sober).

        Anyway....all that to say this. Been using EZA (as well as other sites of the like) for a while now and after tonight will be completely revamping the way I attack it. If it helps at all here is one semi-likeable real human being who's success you may eventually have been a part of. If that doesn't warm your hearts then maybe it will at least line my pockets....thanks again for taking your own valuable time to share.

        Now if I can just get off the forum and spend my time writing something I can actually market.....damn you ADHD!!
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Astron View Post

      sometimes it`s really hard to find related products. What I see on ClickBank is that you can find lots of different products on a subject, but you can`t cross-promote them because they are all about the same thing most of the time.
      (i) One can (to some extent) select niches in which that isn't the case (not always easily, I agree);

      (ii) One isn't limited to ClickBank for one's promotions: one of the (many) advantages affiliates have over vendors is our freedom to select/combine as we wish, and to build asset-based businesses which are not dependent on the continuing success and availability of any specific, individual product.

      Originally Posted by Astron View Post

      Do you promote physical products in addition, like Amazon or CJ products?
      I do. I've been slow in doing so (have been doing this for only 8 months of my business's 30-ish months' existence) but it's going well, and it's something I'll do more in future, partly for the reason we're discussing here and partly because I dislike being entirely dependent on any one company, and if by any chance ClickBank were to disappear tomorrow it would be pretty inconvenient for me and produce a big drop in income, at least for a couple of months, I think.
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  • Profile picture of the author Astron
    Many thanks for all the answers guys
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  • Profile picture of the author Serenity090
    Thanks Myob and Alexa for this wonderful discussion...

    I have Few Questions to Both Alexa and Myob Specifically...

    Best Way to Approach Potential Syndicators? How will you Convince Them for putting Your Content on Their Site, Especially if it's an Authoritative Site, Big Ezine or Offline Magazine?

    How will you develop a long term relation, so they syndicate every time you publish/write new articles?


    Would be thankful if someone can lead me to an older thread where this whole process is discussed in more details...
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    • Profile picture of the author myob
      The easiest way to get your articles syndicated is to first write articles worthy of syndication. I'm not being facetious here. You must write within the expectations of your targeted publishers. Submit your articles to EZA and begin building up a portfolio. Also, have a complete profile of your expertise and accomplishments on EZA as well. This is important for reasons given below.

      It may seem trite, but publishers do pay attention to these details and weight their choices significantly on author profile and status along with article quality and relevance. Using EZA as a showcase for your writing ability, you are prepared to approach potential syndicators.

      Keep in mind, there are lots of publishers looking for quality content just as you are looking for publishers. It's not essential to submit articles to EZA, but I highly recommend it especially when first starting out. My articles get picked up by new syndication sources about once or twice a week.

      For prospecting ezine publishers, it works best for beginners to first subscribe to the ezines and get familiar with the type of the articles that get published. Then it's usually just a matter of emailing the publisher with something like this;

      "Dear {ezine publisher's name}, As one of your subscribers I see that you have published articles relating to underwater basketweaving. This is my specialty, and I think fellow subscribers might be interested in some articles I have published on this topic. Below is my latest article for your consideration for insertion in the next available issue:

      {text of article body, with resource box}

      Please advise if you would consider regular weekly or other periodic contributions. For your further review, some of my syndicated articles can be seen on Ezine Articles:
      http://ezinearticles.com/?expert=Wally_Weaver

      Regards,
      Wally Weaver
      wally@waterworld.com"

      Approaching authority type websites is comparatively more difficult, but can be done with an impressive EZA portfolio and published articles in a few established ezines. Generally, contact information can be found on the website, and the approach is similar. This would never be a good time to be humble; you really need to show and tell them what you've got, ie Master Underwater Basketweaver, Diamond Expert at Ezinearticles (oooh, yeah!).

      Offline magazines are a different animal, and the submission and article requirements vary widely depending upon the publication. As a rule, however, the writing quality standards are much higher than seen online. A source I use frequently is "Writers' Market", which does list thousands of magazines and regional newspapers including how to query the editors and their writing style requirements.

      It is good practice to obtain a few recent copies to get an idea of their topic slant. What's great about offline publications is most of them actually "pay" for your work in addition to generally a much wider exposure. Most of them also have online components which does often contribute high PR backlinks. Most online article marketers are not using these very powerful offline publisher outlets.
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        John said:
        I know another marketer whose opt-in page is mainly plain text, and his opt-in bribe is a 112 page ebook. It does a good job filtering people, because his newsletters tend to be quite long and he sends them in plain text. If you respond to the opt-in process, you'll likely respond to the content-and vice versa.
        That would be me, I expect. Probably not a lot of people using that exact combination.

        For those who say that long opt-in pages don't work, I offer the following statistics: 62% of the people who land on that 2000+ word page sign up. Of those, 83% confirm their subscription. Those numbers can fluctuate a few points in any given month, but they're consistent in the long term.

        Black text on a white page. The only graphic is the button to submit the form. It's UGLY. But it does exactly what I want it to do. As John points out, it's a filter. It sets expectations that match what they're going to get if they subscribe.

        I've seen higher numbers, but not often for a general topic newsletter.

        I'm going to test another version soon. A simple border and some font changes, but nothing else. I wouldn't be surprised to see response rates go down on sign-ups, but it's worth the test to see if it affects response to later offers.

        This is much like any other form of content marketing, including articles. You need to be somewhat consistent in the relationship of what you offer to what you deliver.

        Test and track. If you're using articles to drive traffic, track which sources send you the most traffic, the most subscribers, and the highest converting subscribers. Those numbers aren't always in direct proportion to each other.

        Track your author's credits (bio) and links within the content. Some sites don't allow this using query strings (http://.../?a=x&b=z) because they look like affiliate links, so you may want to invest in a link tracking script that uses more standard looking URLs. Or just learn to create PHP redirects. Getting the author's credit/call to action right can make an enormous difference in your click-throughs.

        This may not be easy to do with some distribution models, but if you submit articles directly, it's worth merging the site and article info into the mailing or form submission. Or use a PHP variable substitution script to merge it into the text and HTML versions if they get the articles from a page on your site after you email them.

        The difference can be multiples, rather than small increments, so it's worth the effort.


        Paul
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        • Profile picture of the author wayne60618
          Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

          John said:That would be me, I expect. Probably not a lot of people using that exact combination.

          For those who say that long opt-in pages don't work, I offer the following statistics: 62% of the people who land on that 2000+ word page sign up. Of those, 83% confirm their subscription. Those numbers can fluctuate a few points in any given month, but they're consistent in the long term.

          Black text on a white page. The only graphic is the button to submit the form. It's UGLY. But it does exactly what I want it to do. As John points out, it's a filter. It sets expectations that match what they're going to get if they subscribe.

          I've seen higher numbers, but not often for a general topic newsletter.

          I'm going to test another version soon. A simple border and some font changes, but nothing else. I wouldn't be surprised to see response rates go down on sign-ups, but it's worth the test to see if it affects response to later offers.

          This is much like any other form of content marketing, including articles. You need to be somewhat consistent in the relationship of what you offer to what you deliver.

          Test and track. If you're using articles to drive traffic, track which sources send you the most traffic, the most subscribers, and the highest converting subscribers. Those numbers aren't always in direct proportion to each other.

          Track your author's credits (bio) and links within the content. Some sites don't allow this using query strings (http://.../?a=x&b=z) because they look like affiliate links, so you may want to invest in a link tracking script that uses more standard looking URLs. Or just learn to create PHP redirects. Getting the author's credit/call to action right can make an enormous difference in your click-throughs.

          This may not be easy to do with some distribution models, but if you submit articles directly, it's worth merging the site and article info into the mailing or form submission. Or use a PHP variable substitution script to merge it into the text and HTML versions if they get the articles from a page on your site after you email them.

          The difference can be multiples, rather than small increments, so it's worth the effort.


          Paul

          As someone who has gone through your process, I can honestly say it has a different feel to it than most. By that I mean, it would appear that you are rather unconcerned whether someone signs up or not vs, the over hyped, desperate squeeze page. One gets the sense that you just want to offer quality info - it's theirs if they want to subscribe but it doesn't mean my Mercedes won't go unattended if they don't
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          • Profile picture of the author myob
            There is a certain self-assured arrogance in simple elegance.
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            “If I have seen further than others, it is by standing upon the shoulders of giants.” – Isaac Newton
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      • Profile picture of the author art72
        Originally Posted by myob View Post

        The easiest way to get your articles syndicated is to first write articles worthy of syndication. I'm not being facetious here. You must write within the expectations of your targeted publishers. Submit your articles to EZA and begin building up a portfolio. Also, have a complete profile of your expertise and accomplishments on EZA as well. This is important for reasons given below.

        It may seem trite, but publishers do pay attention to these details and weight their choices significantly on author profile and status along with article quality and relevance. Using EZA as a showcase for your writing ability, you are prepared to approach potential syndicators.

        Keep in mind, there are lots of publishers looking for quality content just as you are looking for publishers. It's not essential to submit articles to EZA, but I highly recommend it especially when first starting out. My articles get picked up by new syndication sources about once or twice a week.

        For prospecting ezine publishers, it works best for beginners to first subscribe to the ezines and get familiar with the type of the articles that get published. Then it's usually just a matter of emailing the publisher with something like this;

        "Dear {ezine publisher's name}, As one of your subscribers I see that you have published articles relating to underwater basketweaving. This is my specialty, and I think fellow subscribers might be interested in some articles I have published on this topic. Below is my latest article for your consideration for insertion in the next available issue:

        {text of article body, with resource box}

        Please advise if you would consider regular weekly or other periodic contributions. For your further review, some of my syndicated articles can be seen on Ezine Articles:
        http://ezinearticles.com/?expert=Wally_Weaver

        Regards,
        Wally Weaver
        wally@waterworld.com"

        Approaching authority type websites is comparatively more difficult, but can be done with an impressive EZA portfolio and published articles in a few established ezines. Generally, contact information can be found on the website, and the approach is similar. This would never be a good time to be humble; you really need to show and tell them what you've got, ie Master Underwater Basketweaver, Diamond Expert at Ezinearticles (oooh, yeah!).

        Offline magazines are a different animal, and the submission and article requirements vary widely depending upon the publication. As a rule, however, the writing quality standards are much higher than seen online. A source I use frequently is "Writers' Market", which does list thousands of magazines and regional newspapers including how to query the editors and their writing style requirements.

        It is good practice to obtain a few recent copies to get an idea of their topic slant. What's great about offline publications is most of them actually "pay" for your work in addition to generally a much wider exposure. Most of them also have online components which does often contribute high PR backlinks. Most online article marketers are not using these very powerful offline publisher outlets.
        Thank-You^^^

        While there has been repeated mention of the simplicity of these methods, I will be the first to admit it too is a touch intimidating, as the writing skills within this thread challenge me to ask; "Am I worthy?"

        After all, in the wrong hands knowledge is dangerous.

        After searching for months to uncover proper methods to keep writing at the top of my agenda, I became the victim of my own ignorance; learning the wrong way to tackle the SERP's.

        All the while, I never realized; the methods I was employing was if fact a method of 'gaming' the search engines, and was taking me away from my passion... writing.

        As such, my writing has taken a backseat to the "all-so-elusive" projected need to learn SEO, traffic techniques, etc...

        As Alexa professes the 'technophobic' aspects of the IM trade/profession, have weaved a web of their own, and taken away a great deal of my time as well. Metaphorically speaking, learning these technical skills is likened to the attempt of learning 2 new languages.

        The underlying psychology throughout this thread has had a major effect on the way I will view my business from this point forth. There too, the comfort in knowing; "All Is Not Lost" regarding my previous explorations, research, and practices, as they too can be of great benefit in my future writings, and still be viewed as gains. (*Like the $87 wasted on AMR a day before finding this thread!)

        About a month ago, I had actually contacted a well-respected and successful copywriter, and truth be told...I was scared to ask him "how" he had reached his level of success?

        However, much like the immeasurable 'selflessness' in which Paul, myob, and Alexa have all but shown us the [innards] of their business model and remain humble doing so, he too passed up a sale, and sent me to an 'affordable solution" to my specific needs at the time.

        It is these simple measures (yet, seldom seen practices) that resonate like a silent whisper amidst the screams; "spin articles, automate, submit...to my methods, buy my bs and succeed" that that leave me awestruck and inspired.

        Truth be told, I ventured into IMing with a self-interest to market my writing; nothing else!

        I tried Helium, some Poetry sites, writing blogs that remain adrift the internet rarely to have been seen by human eyes, let alone 'targeted visitors' and I almost gave up!

        In absolution, I wanted to write for an audience that could benefit from my efforts, and if I made money at it seemed the only true way to gauge it's value.

        Yet, for the 6 months of hardcore studying all the components (i.e. auto-responders, list building pre-selling, up-selling, down-selling, SEO, building WP sites, buying domains, etc...) I find myself "write back" to where it all starts....feeding my desire to write!

        I think what impresses upon me most in this thread is the privilege to know; that others have pursued a similar hunger, tore through the fat, and found the sustenance of their own passions. And not only have afforded themselves the privilege to succeed themselves doing so, but most importantly took the time to share with those (like myself) a key ingredient to unlocking the door to a world of ambition.

        Ambition, which it in itself, has clearly suffered greatly by virtue of the smorgasbord of choices one faces learning the ins and outs of internet marketing.

        Now that my sentiments and gratitude has escaped me, I can honestly say that if there were such a drug to the natural high this thread has afforded me, might my employer see it as the twinkle in my eyes, as I bare a grin...and know; it's only a matter of time now, and I will be free to be me...(again!)

        My apologies if I took anything away from this thread...priceless!

        Art

        PS - I nearly forgot to ask; How many Pen Names (if any) do you guys use?

        And there too, is it necessary to build multiple EZA accounts for each author?
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        • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
          Originally Posted by art72 View Post

          Art

          PS - I nearly forgot to ask; How many Pen Names (if any) do you guys use?

          And there too, is it necessary to build multiple EZA accounts for each author?
          Generally, one per niche. Sometimes two, if I want to argue both sides of an issue or deal with multiple specialties within a broader niche.

          The rules are one EZA account per human, and as many pen names under that account as you need.
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        • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
          Banned
          Originally Posted by art72 View Post

          I nearly forgot to ask; How many Pen Names (if any) do you guys use?
          One per niche, here (taking care to use the same one on my own niche-site, for all my articles, on my autoresponder emails to my list, and so on).

          I use my own name only in this forum and a couple of other IM forums in which I post very rarely, but I also used to use it a couple of years ago for my writing service (i.e. when I had one), which made getting paid easier.

          Originally Posted by art72 View Post

          And there too, is it necessary to build multiple EZA accounts for each author?
          Not only unnecessary but disallowed: one account per person is their rule (but you can have as many pen-names as you want, within it: readers have no way of associating the different pen-names. Sometimes you'll see on an author profile something like "Diamond Author" or "Platinum Author" with a number of articles less than 10: this is a give-away that it must be a pen-name because the account level, when earned, is applied to all the pen-names including any subsequently created!).
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  • Profile picture of the author Joshua Rigley
    Banned
    @Paul (AKA myob): Just wanted to let you know that I subscribed to your IM list. I'm impressed with the quality of your posts, which doesn't happen much, and I've learned a lot from them. More than that, I think I've discovered one of your secrets for effective pre-selling.
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    • Profile picture of the author myob
      @Joshua,

      There is another Paul here that you Need to Know.
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      “If I have seen further than others, it is by standing upon the shoulders of giants.” – Isaac Newton
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      • Profile picture of the author Joshua Rigley
        Banned
        Originally Posted by myob View Post

        @Joshua,

        There is another Paul here that you Need to Know.
        Har har. As a matter of fact I am on his list and have read that book several times. Smart man. A bit wordy for my taste, and as a visual learner, I find his lack of graphics disturbing.

        I got a couple of questions myself, for either you or anyone who can answer them.

        I've often considered using Site Build It!, simply because it's a all-in-one solution that has a step-by-step program to follow. Plus I like their philosophy to internet marketing. Do you have any experience with them?

        Also, a couple of other things.

        I love writing, and am a fantasy fiction fanatic. I've even published my own story on Amazon. I'm also going to college soon to study music composition.

        I'm trying to find creative ways of monetizing these two niches, but I'm drawing blanks so far.

        For example, with the fiction market, it's very common for indie authors to charge the minimum price of $0.99 on Amazon, which leads to a $0.35 royalty per sale.

        I've considered publishing my short stories on my own site and charging $10 for them using the $7 secrets script or something like it. Problem is, I have no idea how I'd promote those stories. Most indie authors would consider it outrageous to charge anything more than $1 for a short story, or to publish directly on your website and ignore the Kindle and the Nook. I don't even know if any authors have tried anything like this.

        Another idea I had was to do a monthly membership fee and publish a couple of stories a month. I also thought of publishing stories for free on my blog and making others available only to members. I'm thinking this might be the most ideal business model for me to follow.

        The problem with that is that I don't know what benefits to offer paid members, as again, I don't have any good examples to model from.

        I'm beginning to despair and thinking that it may not be possible to create a living from writing fiction by applying "traditional" IM methods.

        As far as the music thing goes, that's a totally different story. Bleagh. Didn't mean to put a pun there.

        Thanks for your time.
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        • Profile picture of the author DireStraits
          Originally Posted by Joshua Rigley View Post

          I've often considered using Site Build It!, simply because it's a all-in-one solution that has a step-by-step program to follow. Plus I like their philosophy to internet marketing. Do you have any experience with them?
          I have to be honest, I don't use Site Build It but I've heard more or less the same thing from many: for anyone other than a completely clueless newbie, it's probably pretty overpriced and is a bit "outdated". I'd say there are much better offers out there.

          As I understand it (someone correct me if I'm wrong), you're looking at about $299/year per site, with Site Build It?

          On the other hand, there are services like TypePad (which I believe Alexa, here - a self-confessed technophobe - uses to build most of her sites, and is very successful and happy with it). They host your sites themselves, too (i.e. no additional web-hosting costs - you only need to buy domain names), have an easy-to-use, point-and-click site-creation/design and blogging interface based on MoveableType (but souped-up), some nicer and more modern themes to begin with, and it'd be like $180/year for your account, not per site, and you can have as many sites/blogs under your account as you wish.

          For anyone who already knows in the slightest "what they're doing", much of the other stuff that's included with Site Build It is really just pure fluff, I think, and just not necessary nor really that helpful.

          If you can create a decent-looking site with great content and put it online, what else do you really need that SBI offers? Effective SEO can't be conducted on a one-click basis unless you're paying to outsource it, and directory submission tools (if they're provided as part of SBI) really don't help much in this regard. There are other, free SEO tools available for everything you can think of, if you need any at all.

          Do you need step-by-step site/business-building instruction that probably only covers one specific "model"? You know you can always get guidance here, if you're careful and smart about who you take advice from. What else can Site Build It realistically help you with, that would justify the extra cost?

          Just something to think about, anyway. Other people's opinions may differ.
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          • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
            Banned
            Originally Posted by DireStraits View Post

            On the other hand, there are services like TypePad (which I believe Alexa, here - a self-confessed technophobe - uses to build most of her sites, and is very successful and happy with it). They host your sites themselves, too (i.e. no additional web-hosting costs - you only need to buy domain names), have an easy-to-use, point-and-click site-creation/design and blogging interface based on MoveableType (but souped-up), some nicer and more modern themes to begin with, and it'd be like $180/year for your account, not per site, and you can have as many sites/blogs under your account as you wish.
            ^^^ This.

            I pay a bit less than that because I pay annually in advance, which always gets you a discount.

            To be honest, the reasons I started using TypePad probably don't apply to most people here, and they are ...

            (i) Before I started, I read "Blogging for Dummies" and "Wordpress for Dummies", decided I clearly didn't want to use self-hosted Wordpress, but liked the recommendation for TypePad and the TypePad sites I saw;

            (ii) They have very good customer support for technophobic incompetents like me;

            (iii) It's a bit different from what "most people" do, and I like "different".

            I'm not sure to what extent you can compare it with SiteBuildIt, because TypePad doesn't purport to "teach you internet marketing", really - it's just a very good, very reliable, slightly expensive host with an in-built "blogging style" site-builder and good service. But far cheaper than SBI: as Michael says, you can have as many TypePad sites as you want for the $15 per month.

            The idea is that it has (almost) all the ease of use of Blogspot together with (almost) all the flexibility and features of Wordpress, as well as all the security, support and reliability of (for example) HostGator.

            My impression of SBI (at which I've also had a very good look, though without signing up) is that it probably does exactly what it says it does ... but a lot of that is very old-fashioned, unnecessary to learn, and it seems extraordinarily expensive for what it is.
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          • Profile picture of the author Ryan David
            Originally Posted by DireStraits View Post

            I have to be honest, I don't use Site Build It but I've heard more or less the same thing from many: for anyone other than a completely clueless newbie, it's probably pretty overpriced and is a bit "outdated". I'd say there are much better offers out there.

            As I understand it (someone correct me if I'm wrong), you're looking at about $299/year per site, with Site Build It?

            On the other hand, there are services like TypePad (which I believe Alexa, here - a self-confessed technophobe - uses to build most of her sites, and is very successful and happy with it). They host your sites themselves, too (i.e. no additional web-hosting costs - you only need to buy domain names), have an easy-to-use, point-and-click site-creation/design and blogging interface based on MoveableType (but souped-up), some nicer and more modern themes to begin with, and it'd be like $180/year for your account, not per site, and you can have as many sites/blogs under your account as you wish.

            For anyone who already knows in the slightest "what they're doing", much of the other stuff that's included with Site Build It is really just pure fluff, I think, and just not necessary nor really that helpful.

            If you can create a decent-looking site with great content and put it online, what else do you really need that SBI offers? Effective SEO can't be conducted on a one-click basis unless you're paying to outsource it, and directory submission tools (if they're provided as part of SBI) really don't help much in this regard. There are other, free SEO tools available for everything you can think of, if you need any at all.

            Do you need step-by-step site/business-building instruction that probably only covers one specific "model"? You know you can always get guidance here, if you're careful and smart about who you take advice from. What else can Site Build It realistically help you with, that would justify the extra cost?

            Just something to think about, anyway. Other people's opinions may differ.
            I think SBI is a great place to start if you've never made money online, despite all the downsides. I still have my first site I built with them and it produces substantial income to this day. For people that have been around for a bit, they kinda do the same thing that Corey Rudl's company used to do...they tell you to ignore everyone else and follow their steps. The upside with SBI, is that unlike Rudl's company, they aren't telling you that so they can have all your money to themselves.

            If you sign-up with SBI, you'll be committed to 1 site, you'll build a lot of content on it, learn a little about SEO, learn a little about affiliate marketing, learn a little about creating your own product, and you'll probably make anywhere from a little money to a lot of money.

            But at least it focuses you on the fundamentals. It's not the best platform, actually it kinda sucks. It's not the cheapest. But it does a nice job of keeping it's customers focused on just getting pages out and promoted on the web. Once you start seeing the light, you'll scout out better ways of doing it on your own.
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            • Profile picture of the author myob
              Originally Posted by Joe Pace View Post

              ...The last time I read everything, it seemed that the best route for me was to cancel my SYA subscription, write 6-8 great articles per month (in the one niche I am solely focused on), submit them to EZA and then use the rest of my time to find people to add to my syndication network. ...
              Stop right there. If you asked me, that would be my final answer.


              "No problem can be solved until it is reduced to some simple form. The changing of a vague difficulty into a specific, concrete form is a very essential element in thinking."

              - J. P. Morgan
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              “If I have seen further than others, it is by standing upon the shoulders of giants.” – Isaac Newton
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              • Profile picture of the author Joe Pace
                Originally Posted by myob View Post

                Stop right there. If you asked me, that would be my final answer.
                That's what I needed to hear - thx so much Paul and Alexa (and others who contributed to this thread).
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        I find his lack of graphics disturbing.
        Am I the only one who just heard echoes of James Earl Jones?


        Paul
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        .
        Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

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  • Profile picture of the author art72
    Thank You Alexa, Paul, Paul, Bill, owlaws, OP, and several others!

    In any and/or all absolution, I sincerely believe to have just learned more from this 90 post thread then that of any paid program, WSO, or training I have ever enlisted into, and subjected myself to undergo over the past 6 months!

    Yes...."epiphany" seems quite a befitting word to explain the eye opener this thread has been.

    Art

    PS - Also, Thank-You Alexa for your advice regarding a 'similar' subject matter, this thread solidifies everything you mentioned prior.
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  • Profile picture of the author art72
    While it appears self-explanatory to some degree, as to 'marketing' ones articles to redistribution sites, there looms this ever-burning need for me to reverse-engineer the syndication process, and leaves me to wonder;

    If high authority sites/blogs are republishing (or redistributing) our written articles as a measure of providing their users content, this either rules out the 'myth' that so many profess; claiming Google devalues rank for duplicate content?

    Or

    These sites are such giants...they don't care?

    While I had to reread a few posts, clearly those who have established a successful enterprise with article syndication repeatedly state there's no need to change title or body.

    Understandably, altering the last paragraph is a given as it affords the author's credit, and is the sole purpose of gaining exposure at the heart of article syndication.

    So, please forgive my inability to see the benefit to the site/blog owners who ultimately republish our work?

    I'm guessing the function from their perspective is relevant to giving their audience fresh content, and quality information.

    Doing so, I imagine (if the site has traffic volume) is beneficial in the sense it exposes their brand, their product, service or could be as subtle as people clicking their ads?

    Am I missing something here?

    Offline, it almost makes more sense to me as publishers have deadlines, 'X' amount of content required, and in "layman's terms" slots to fill.

    I see the benefit from the writer's perspective, can someone clarify the benefit to the high authority sites?

    Thanks,

    Art
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by art72 View Post

      If high authority sites/blogs are republishing (or redistributing) our written articles as a measure of providing their users content, this either rules out the 'myth' that so many profess; claiming Google devalues rank for duplicate content?
      That isn't duplicate content, within that context, Art. It's syndicated content. Anyway, it's "penalty-free", obviously. This one isn't really much of a "myth", as "myths" go, because almost anyone thinking it through can see it for what it is. Reuters and Associated Press and all the leading international news sites which syndicate their reports kind of clarify it, too?

      You've surely seen this little article before?

      Originally Posted by art72 View Post

      please forgive my inability to see the benefit to the site/blog owners who ultimately republish our work?
      They get it free, instead of paying for high quality content all the time. All they have to do is give us a backlink or two. And don't forget they're by no means all "competing marketers". There's all sorts of other stuff on the web, apart from just marketers.

      Originally Posted by art72 View Post

      Am I missing something here?
      Don't think so ... certainly nothing spectacular or fundamental, anyway ... :confused:

      Originally Posted by art72 View Post

      I see the benefit from the writer's perspective, can someone clarify the benefit to the high authority sites?
      I think you clarified it yourself, really ...
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      • Profile picture of the author art72
        Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

        Actually, I had not.

        Also, the reminder that not everyone is a competing marketer...sorta escaped my own common sense for a minute there:rolleyes:

        Great read - Thanks!

        To think, I have been busting my hump to re-write or create unique articles for each of my sites/campaigns... because prior I foolishly believed all-the-spun-up-hype.

        Live and learn!
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        • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
          Banned
          Originally Posted by archetype View Post

          So for a while now I've written articles (original not spun or even published on my sites) for EZA and included a link to my intended site for traffic/link-juice. I then build lots of links to those EZA articles which in theory passes link-juice to my site and moves it's position quickly without the worry of being penalized. It works and I have watched pages jump to page 1 search engine position with doing only a few weeks of this. It's called tiered linking...nothing new to IM or anyone here I'm sure, but it does work (even after Panda).
          Sure ... nobody's suggesting you won't benefit from it ... and EZA will love it because your efforts are driving readers to their site for them.

          The potential problem with it, in the longer term, is that by building backlinks to article directories, you're effectively sending your traffic there instead of to your own site. So if you have (say) a 30% click-through-rate from EZA, you're actually losing 70% of that traffic.

          The other potential problem with it is that, in reality, most of the things you can do to increase your CTR (and thereby reduce the traffic you lose) are things that will also reduce the chances of your articles being syndicated from EZA to any sites from which you can get any targeted traffic (not to mention more worthwhile backlinks).

          Added to which, in the long run, it doesn't pay to give EZA any initial indexation-rights to your articles. (Though, again, they'll like it!).

          Originally Posted by archetype View Post

          But here is my question. Upon beginning this today I decided to search some of my EZA article titles in google and to my surprise they have been used many, many times by content publishers. As I went through them though a very large majority were really crappy sites that just posted my title, a very short summary (one sentence) and then left a link to "read the rest of this article" which is just a link to the EZine article itself. The "read more" link happens to be buried in a sea of adsense in most cases.

          I'm assuming this is common with syndication? Is it something I should be concerned about? Could it hurt my efforts in anyway?
          No; it's not doing you any harm.

          Originally Posted by archetype View Post

          a few of the sites that actually did have alot of good content and had posted my article were run by owners who weren't aware (or didn't care) that copying and pasting the text from my article jacked up the HTML in the resource box so the link is broken and won't help me
          Then they've breached EZA's TOS and by extension your copyright. You can contact them about this and "encourage" them to rectify it, you know? It's not that difficult, because you can use more or less the same sort of fill-in-the-blanks email to try them. Once you've done one, the rest are far quicker. And this can be good for both traffic and backlinks.

          Originally Posted by art72 View Post

          To think, I have been busting my hump to re-write or create unique articles for each of my sites/campaigns... because prior I foolishly believed all-the-spun-up-hype.
          So did I, when I started.

          A little group of successful people here, and some textbook writers, and a lot of testing, between them, gradually taught me better.

          There's no quality control of internet "information", and there's a substantial industry with vested interests in people believing a lot of stuff that helps vendors to sell spinning and mass-submission software. "Digging for gold" is a little different from "selling shovels and digging-services in the gold rush" - not that there's anything intrinsically wrong with selling shovels or digging-services at all; it's just that undeniably some of them are full of holes and can produce realistic benefits only for their sellers.
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          • Profile picture of the author archetype
            Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

            Sure ... nobody's suggesting you won't benefit from it ... and EZA will love it because your efforts are driving readers to their site for them.

            The potential problem with it, in the longer term, is that by building backlinks to article directories, you're effectively sending your traffic there instead of to your own site. So if you have (say) a 30% click-through-rate from EZA, you're actually losing 70% of that traffic.

            The other potential problem with it is that, in reality, most of the things you can do to increase your CTR (and thereby reduce the traffic you lose) are things that will also reduce the chances of your articles being syndicated from EZA to any sites from which you can get any targeted traffic (not to mention more worthwhile backlinks).

            Added to which, in the long run, it doesn't pay to give EZA any initial indexation-rights to your articles. (Though, again, they'll like it!).
            Thank you. I def see the logic here and agree. I really doubt these really crappy second tier links are driving much traffic, but it still makes sense and I've decided why waste that effort when I could be doing something much simpler and more effective and that is conducive to more quality. I mean believe me, I'm not necessarily proud of littering the web with useless garbage to gain backlinks. I would much rather spend my time doing something that benefits me even more while promoting quality instead of garbage.

            Without a doubt, until now, I have seriously underestimated what driving traffic with article marketing could do, and especially in the sense that your site doesn't even have to be in a great position on the search engines to get traffic coming in. At the same time, the process that almost seems independent of SEO, is building you backlinks too, which is as genius as it is simple and logical. I'm really glad that I'm starting to understand what article marketing is really intended for. Once again thanks to all of you who have chosen to share how you do it.

            I also am learning here the part about getting it indexed for yourself first in every case. Just one of those things where, like many, I wasn't clear on how duplicate content actually worked, but I now see the importance of this too. Especially since EZA could outrank you for your own niche with your own article if they have it indexed first and you decide to publish it for yourself as well.

            Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

            Then they've breached EZA's TOS and by extension your copyright. You can contact them about this and "encourage" them to rectify it, you know? It's not that difficult, because you can use more or less the same sort of fill-in-the-blanks email to try them. Once you've done one, the rest are far quicker. And this can be good for both traffic and backlinks.
            I will def use this advice, and even more so once I get myself a little more solidly established on EZA and start reaching out to publishers to offer more content. Thanks
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        • Profile picture of the author BillyBee
          For Alexa and Paul (and any other Paul ... or any other expert who feels left out because they weren't named in the title of this terrific thread):

          In terms of where you send your article traffic to . . . Can you tell me a little bit about your destination sites for that?

          Are they content-rich blogs? Regular sites that happen to have a blog on it along with other tabs (pages)? Simple one-page landing sites? A sales letter designed simply for the opt-in? A site with a collection of articles with an opt-in box prominently displayed wherever the visitor happens to go?

          Just trying to get a better picture of the pre-sell process because it seems so vital. Is the whole goal of that page to get the opt-in? Or do you also have anchor text links that lead right to the vendor?

          I'll understand of course if you don't want to reveal any of your own example sites, but if you want to point out some other site that does the same thing (that is not yours) --- or tell me where I can look for good examples of this --- I'd greatly appreciate it.

          Thanks for all the help in this conversation!
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          • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
            Banned
            Originally Posted by BillyBee View Post

            In terms of where you send your article traffic to . . . Can you tell me a little bit about your destination sites for that?
            Hi Billy, mine are described a bit here and a bit more in post #73 of this thread, on the previous page.

            They're content-rich blogs, yes. "Blogs" in the sense that they're (technically) built from blogging software, though they don't really look like "blogs". (I'm not a Wordpress user and my sites look nothing like "typical Wordpress-theme sites").

            My sites do have all my relevant articles in them (which gradually builds up to quite a lot of content) though most of those are not what you'd call "prominently displayed".

            On the landing page, I'll typically have a big opt-in, something like a "welcome post" for first-time visitors, a product-review or two, a navigation system, and the usual sort of stuff for a niche blog, but enabling people attracted by my long, wordy articles to see that it's a long, wordy site ("customer demographic appeal" in play there), encouraging them to opt in, and not concealing that I'm promoting products too.

            I use plain, simple designs intended primarily for text sites. Dark text on light backgrounds. Clear type-faces/fonts. Nothing "loud" (except perhaps - a little bit - the opt-in on the landing-page, which I really want everyone to see quickly). No screaming bright red headlines. Some pictures/photos, not very many. Simple and effective: I'm not trying to win any website design awards (just as well, really). Sorry not to be able to show you one. There's absolutely nothing "difficult" or "clever" about them at all: they just don't look as "bloggy" as many niche sites I see.
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            • Profile picture of the author BillyBee
              Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

              Sorry not to be able to show you one.
              Not at all; your post was perfectly descriptive and all the help I needed. Thanks so much for that.
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            • Profile picture of the author myob
              Originally Posted by hardik jogi View Post

              Are you sure paul that you average 40,000 new subscribers per day?
              So 40k*30 = 1.2 million new subscribers per month

              My profit is about $1 per subscriber per month.
              If you have same conversion like mine,
              you earn $40,000 per day --> $1.2 million per month! and then every month you add another $1.2 million in profits!!

              Also with which email autoresponder company you have your list with or have a big dedicated server with autoresponder software installed?

              I hesitated at first to give these figures in answer to the question regarding what is the potential for article syndication, because it may be more distractive rather than instructive. Faced with all the shiny new objects and "push-button wealth", it is difficult for people to believe that something so simple really does have virtually unlimited upside potential. Although simple, it's not always easy. What you apparently have not seen as posted earlier in this thread is that it has taken me nearly 15 years to get to this level. Rather than repeat the steps I have already written, refer to post #28.

              These earnings are the result of one simple marketing model scaled up. Your mileage may vary, but the potential of this marketing model certainly is worth whatever the effort is required. And it can be done at almost no cost. There is one investment that is essential, however. This one investment will give you the best ROI and pay dividends for the rest of your life. Invest in yourself; to learn how to write well.

              In answer to your question about the math, you are a little low. Average earnings per actual subscriber works out to be around $21.20 per month. Most of my subscribers are soon sold off as leads for example to specialists in real estate, mortgage, insurance, medical, industry, technology, MLM, IM, etc because I don't have many affiliate products to sell them. Lead generation is an additional profit center.

              The internal processing of these subscribers varies widely, and is not relevant to this discussion because the sources are almost all from article syndication. As I also mentioned previously, I do have a self-hosted autoresponder for the one reason my lists are so huge. But any major commercial autoresponder has all the required list management and processing features for beginning and sustaining a comfortable income.

              As more syndicated outlets are added to my network, the number of new subscribers have been increasing each month. The rate of increase is also increasing. This is what happens by adding additional syndicated outlets; your potential customer base increases exponentially. Each outlet (ezine publisher, website, magazine, etc) may have a few hundred to hundreds of thousands of subscribers. And many of these subscribers often have subscribers of their own.

              This is what we mean by the potential power of syndication; your articles are leveraged exponentially across wide swathes of targeted eyeballs - buyers. Again, these outlets are no less real than brick and mortar chainstores building new outlets within their targeted neighborhoods. It's not rocket science, folks.
              Signature
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              • Profile picture of the author Joe Pace
                Originally Posted by myob View Post

                This is what we mean by the potential power of syndication; your articles are leveraged exponentially across wide swathes of targeted eyeballs - buyers. Again, these outlets are no less real than brick and mortar chainstores building new outlets within their targeted neighborhoods. It's not rocket science, folks.
                Paul,

                Here is a question that I would really like to pick your brain about...

                I know you said you have been doing this for 15 years, but let's take a "if I knew then, what I know now approach" and put yourself in my shoes (scary I know)...

                If you were just starting out today and wanted to dominate one particular niche, what would you focus on?

                Ie: If you were in the position I am to write about 30 high quality articles each month, what would you do?

                I am planning on submitting about 25 of them through SYA and EZA, then using my very best 4 to 5 articles per month to send out to my syndication network I plan on building.

                or...

                Would you scale back on the articles and put more focus on building the syndication network?

                Basically I am trying to get the best bang for my buck (time).

                I am just not sure where my time is best spent each day... writing the articles or trying to focus heavily each day on finding syndication outlets.

                Basically that is what I want to pick your brain about... thx Paul it is appreciated.
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                • Profile picture of the author myob
                  Pay attention to what you already have here in this thread, Joe. As I posted previously (#28), my article marketing model is one sentence long:

                  "Write quality articles, post on your website, submit to selected top article directories for syndication (I only use EZA currently), and market your articles to context-relevant targeted outlets."

                  Read post #28 again; that's really it. You've got a good start, so submit all your articles to EZA, and begin your syndicating. Now. It may be rather difficult to write any more than 1 or 2 good quality and well-researched articles per week. But that's really all you need for building up your syndication network.

                  The resources I mentioned in post #28 would be extremely helpful to you, as well as perhaps reading this entire thread again. It may seem too simple, but the information and resources contained within this thread alone is better than any WSO you can find.
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                  “If I have seen further than others, it is by standing upon the shoulders of giants.” – Isaac Newton
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                  • Profile picture of the author Joe Pace
                    Originally Posted by myob View Post

                    Pay attention to what you already have here in this thread, Joe. As I posted previously (#28), my article marketing model is one sentence long:

                    "Write quality articles, post on your website, submit to selected top article directories for syndication (I only use EZA currently), and market your articles to context-relevant targeted outlets."

                    Read post #28 again; that's really it. You've got a good start, so submit all your articles to EZA, and begin your syndicating. Now. It may be rather difficult to write any more than 1 or 2 good quality and well-researched articles per week. But that's really all you need for building up your syndication network.

                    The resources I mentioned in post #28 would be extremely helpful to you, as well as perhaps reading this entire thread again. It may seem too simple, but the information and resources contained within this thread alone is better than any WSO you can find.
                    I read the thread 4 or 5 times now, but sometimes it is difficult to "unlearn" what is pumped in your head on this forum.

                    The last time I read everything, it seemed that the best route for me was to cancel my SYA subscription, write 6-8 great articles per month (in the one niche I am solely focused on), submit them to EZA and then use the rest of my time to find people to add to my syndication network.

                    Then of course I started thinking about getting as many articles out there as possible each month... ie writing 30, etc, (instead of 6-8) and using SYA.

                    It is hard to "unlearn" some things that have been pumped in your head for yrs... ie the more articles you write and get out there, the more exposure, links, etc.

                    It is just difficult sometimes to make up your mind when you have nothing to go on (yourself) and don't want to waste time... then 2 months later wish you did things the other way. There is just a lot of fear and worry involved in wasting time, because you can never get it back.

                    Basically I just have to take a leap of faith and forget what I have read countless times and focus on the less is more idea and building my syndication network.

                    Thx for the patience, Paul. It means a lot.
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        • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
          Originally Posted by archetype View Post

          But here is my question. Upon beginning this today I decided to search some of my EZA article titles in google and to my surprise they have been used many, many times by content publishers. As I went through them though a very large majority were really crappy sites that just posted my title, a very short summary (one sentence) and then left a link to "read the rest of this article" which is just a link to the EZine article itself. The "read more" link happens to be buried in a sea of adsense in most cases.

          I'm assuming this is common with syndication? Is it something I should be concerned about? Could it hurt my efforts in anyway? I doubt it could help because the sites look thrown up and abandoned and I'm sure will never be seen by anyone except me when I look at who has picked me up from EZA.

          Unfortunately a few of the sites that actually did have alot of good content and had posted my article were run by owners who weren't aware (or didn't care) that copying and pasting the text from my article jacked up the HTML in the resource box so the link is broken and won't help me lol.

          I realize that this, for me, is the beginning of a method to eventually build a direct relationship with content publishers, but in the meantime what should I/could I do about such problems, or should I even worry about it?

          Thanks for any advice and also again for everything shared so far.
          First off, the crappy sites showing just your summary and the link to EZA are likely just poorly set up autoblogs scraping EZA's RSS feed. Personally, I don't count those as syndication. More like part of the price of admission.

          No, those links from those sites probably won't help you much, but they won't hurt you, either.

          As for the content sites that used your stuff, but messed up the links, it's a perfect opportunity to make contact with the publisher. Point out the broken link, politely ask them to fix it (even include some basic html code they can copy/paste), and then ask them if they would like to receive similar content before the directories ever see it.

          Some will fix your link and decline your offer. Some will accept. Many will ignore you. The ones who do accept are your key to both 'borrowing' their authority with their audience and piggybacking on their SEO efforts.
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          • Profile picture of the author archetype
            Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

            First off, the crappy sites showing just your summary and the link to EZA are likely just poorly set up autoblogs scraping EZA's RSS feed. Personally, I don't count those as syndication. More like part of the price of admission.

            No, those links from those sites probably won't help you much, but they won't hurt you, either.
            I think you're right about the scraper because some of these sites still had alot of the default wordpress text entries in them, like "this is an example of a post".

            Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

            As for the content sites that used your stuff, but messed up the links, it's a perfect opportunity to make contact with the publisher. Point out the broken link, politely ask them to fix it (even include some basic html code they can copy/paste), and then ask them if they would like to receive similar content before the directories ever see it.

            Some will fix your link and decline your offer. Some will accept. Many will ignore you. The ones who do accept are your key to both 'borrowing' their authority with their audience and piggybacking on their SEO efforts.
            I think it makes very much sense to use this as an opportunity to get the link fixed and leverage that offer for more content as well. I'm going to keep this in mind as I build my EZA profile to the point that I am more confident with it and then begin reaching out to publishers. Thanks for your advice.
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  • Profile picture of the author archetype
    So for a while now I've written articles (original not spun or even published on my sites) for EZA and included a link to my intended site for traffic/link-juice. I then build lots of links to those EZA articles which in theory passes link-juice to my site and moves it's position quickly without the worry of being penalized. It works and I have watched pages jump to page 1 search engine position with doing only a few weeks of this. It's called tiered linking...nothing new to IM or anyone here I'm sure, but it does work (even after Panda). Also, I try to do good keyword on on-page SEO with plenty of content too of course.

    After reading extensively on this post I want to try shifting my focus to article marketing since I love the idea that I can build traffic in a more natural way while building and providing better and more useful content too.

    But here is my question. Upon beginning this today I decided to search some of my EZA article titles in google and to my surprise they have been used many, many times by content publishers. As I went through them though a very large majority were really crappy sites that just posted my title, a very short summary (one sentence) and then left a link to "read the rest of this article" which is just a link to the EZine article itself. The "read more" link happens to be buried in a sea of adsense in most cases.

    I'm assuming this is common with syndication? Is it something I should be concerned about? Could it hurt my efforts in anyway? I doubt it could help because the sites look thrown up and abandoned and I'm sure will never be seen by anyone except me when I look at who has picked me up from EZA.

    Unfortunately a few of the sites that actually did have alot of good content and had posted my article were run by owners who weren't aware (or didn't care) that copying and pasting the text from my article jacked up the HTML in the resource box so the link is broken and won't help me lol.

    I realize that this, for me, is the beginning of a method to eventually build a direct relationship with content publishers, but in the meantime what should I/could I do about such problems, or should I even worry about it?

    Thanks for any advice and also again for everything shared so far.
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  • Profile picture of the author Astron
    Paul,

    You mentioned in an earlier thread that you sell a lot of psychical products (I.e. Amazon products) like medical equipments and other high priced items. I was wondering how can you use the article syndication method for this kind of products? I mean what kind of articles do you produce for items like a defibrillator an so on? I can only imagine product reviews for psychical products, but nobody will syndicate this kind of articles..
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    • Profile picture of the author milkyway
      Astron,

      Originally Posted by Astron View Post

      I mean what kind of articles do you produce for items like a defibrillator an so on? I can only imagine product reviews for psychical products, but nobody will syndicate this kind of articles..
      Just a few quick ideas for defibrillator:

      Danger of heart attacks; Heart attacks occur more frequently than you think; This simple tools helps to save XX% of people after a heart attack; Heart attack: First medical help until the emergency arrives

      (I'm not a physician, so please approach the topic with caution!)

      In short, everything that points out how a certain tool will be important to people. With an entertaining/informative article about a topic that relates to the reader's lifes.

      Cheers,

      Regine
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    • Profile picture of the author myob
      Originally Posted by Astron View Post

      Paul,

      You mentioned in an earlier thread that you sell a lot of psychical products (I.e. Amazon products) like medical equipments and other high priced items. I was wondering how can you use the article syndication method for this kind of products? I mean what kind of articles do you produce for items like a defibrillator an so on? I can only imagine product reviews for psychical products, but nobody will syndicate this kind of articles..
      Of course, some of those types of articles are not appropriate for general article directories such as EZA. If you do a google search, however, for example "medical technology journals", you will find millions of publications for medical equipment reviews. Also, I use "Writers' Market" to find publications to syndicate my articles. This same method applies to all niche markets in which I sell affiliate products; physical products are not any different in this approach. It always comes back to the simple basics of getting your articles in front of and read by your targeted readers and decision makers.
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    • Profile picture of the author Justin Jordan
      Originally Posted by Astron View Post

      Paul,

      You mentioned in an earlier thread that you sell a lot of psychical products (I.e. Amazon products) like medical equipments and other high priced items. I was wondering how can you use the article syndication method for this kind of products? I mean what kind of articles do you produce for items like a defibrillator an so on? I can only imagine product reviews for psychical products, but nobody will syndicate this kind of articles..
      I think the trick here would be to target medical stuff people actually buy. Defibrillators are probably not worth the effort, but scooter and electric wheelchairs might well be, or diabetic testing meters.

      If you're targeting these kind of niches, I'd work from the top down - find places that are addressing these kind of issues and see what articles and content they're using.
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  • I am currently building a website based on this model, and I'm curious what type of opt-in is working best, if you care to indulge. Are you offering an incentive, or do you just ask readers to sign up for a "newsletter" or more "quality content?"

    Does it just depend on the niche?

    Thanks!
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  • Profile picture of the author Gary M.
    This is a great thread. Honestly, probably the best one I've ever read here. Big thanks to everyone who contributed.

    From what I THINK I understand, you find additional outlets to syndicate your articles by:

    1. Finding out who has already picked up your articles from EZA (Alexa, do you mind explaining the punctuation trick I think you mentioned somewhere earlier?) and contacting them. So you basically just ask if they want to receive content from you before EZA?

    2. Finding related sites. Again, just ask them if they'd like to receive articles from you?

    3. Use writers market to find pulishers to ask in the same way as the above two methods?

    I am very excited to try this. I'm just (hopefully mistakenly) imagining that many of the people/sites/publications I'm reaching out to will ignore me like a spam message.

    Thanks again folks!
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    • Profile picture of the author myob
      From what I THINK I understand, you find additional outlets to syndicate your articles by:

      1. Finding out who has already picked up your articles from EZA (Alexa, do you mind explaining the punctuation trick I think you mentioned somewhere earlier?) and contacting them. So you basically just ask if they want to receive content from you before EZA?
      Alexa explains her method here
      Read the entire thread for additional valuable tips and insights.

      2. Finding related sites. Again, just ask them if they'd like to receive articles from you?

      3. Use writers market to find pulishers to ask in the same way as the above two methods?

      I am very excited to try this. I'm just (hopefully mistakenly) imagining that many of the people/sites/publications I'm reaching out to will ignore me like a spam message.
      Give publishers reasons why they should publish your articles, and show them what you've got.
      Some recent tips were discussed here
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      “If I have seen further than others, it is by standing upon the shoulders of giants.” – Isaac Newton
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  • Profile picture of the author Gary M.
    Thanks myob. You're all extremely generous.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kirk Ward
    Lordy, lordy, lordy ....

    I think my eyes have glazed over trying to read and absorb all this. I have to say this is one of the best damn threads I've ever read in this place.

    Now for a question, and please forgive me for not remembering it if it was answered. They say the second thing old pensioners lose is their memory. I'd tell you what the first was if I could remember it.

    Anyhoo ... the question.

    Dear Experts, how do you identify the targets you desire to add to your syndication network?

    I think I got the how and such of syndicating, but I missed or forgot the methods for identifying the folks that you would like to contact.
    Signature
    "We are not here to sell a parcel of boilers and vats, but the potentiality of growing rich beyond the dreams of avarice."

    Dr. Samuel Johnson (Presiding at the sale of Thrales brewery, London, 1781)
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  • Profile picture of the author Astron
    Kirk,

    If Paul allows me..This one is from one of his previous post about the Directory Of Ezine:

    "There are different methods of course for article marketing (in its highest form) but my preferred method is targeting niche ezine publishers, and is why I refer so often to the DOE. I've been using the DOE for nearly 10 years, not only for directly marketing my articles but also for solo ads.

    The DOE is an organized online directory of ezine publishers sorted by niche, and includes the number of subscribers, demographics, ad rates, and whether or not articles are accepted (most do). There is no cost for accepted articles.

    It is not necessary to use the DOE, however, especially considering the investment of $197 may be out of reach for some. You can also search for ezine publishers in the search engines for example ezines: niche, and I think relevant blogs can be found the same way.

    You can also buy a copy of Writers Market (or go to writersmarket.com) to locate offline magazines, which almost always includes an online component. Getting articles accepted with these publishers is a longer process (and you gotta be really good), but often these subscribers will be in the millions.

    Another source I often use just for testing solo ad ideas is solo-ads.com, where you earn free ad credits by reading other subscribers' ads. There is also a paid option of $25 for sending up to 3,000 subscribers."
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  • Profile picture of the author tedwood
    I've read through this thread and admire the information that has been so openly spread. However I have a question regarding linking back to the original. On one of the posts Alexa stated that she never links back to the original on the website. This makes me wonder because most of my websites are review sites and I don't currently have an e-mail list (bad I know but starting October/November).

    What I want to know is what's the use in getting the article/review that's on your website syndicated if the traffic isn't going to go back to the specific product?

    Surely someone who has just read a review on some new cool football boots on a relevant blog isn't going to want to be directed to a homepage only to have to try and find it.

    Wouldn't they rather be linked to the original even if it's the same text except it has a picture or something?
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      Originally Posted by tedwood View Post

      I've read through this thread and admire the information that has been so openly spread. However I have a question regarding linking back to the original. On one of the posts Alexa stated that she never links back to the original on the website. This makes me wonder because most of my websites are review sites and I don't currently have an e-mail list (bad I know but starting October/November).

      What I want to know is what's the use in getting the article/review that's on your website syndicated if the traffic isn't going to go back to the specific product?

      Surely someone who has just read a review on some new cool football boots on a relevant blog isn't going to want to be directed to a homepage only to have to try and find it.

      Wouldn't they rather be linked to the original even if it's the same text except it has a picture or something?
      Reviews kind of fall into a special category. For a review, I might direct traffic to a semi-squeeze page with something like "Now that you've read the review, here's a link to a source I trust (or to the vendor's page). If you aren't sure yet, or you'd like to know how to get them most from an XYZ, just enter your email below, and get the info you want in your inbox."

      Most of the time, the sequence will be more like:

      Article > review with prominent opt-in > vendor via affiliate link.

      What you don't want is for someone to read a review or article, click you link, take two seconds to tell themselves 'hey, this is what I just read' and click the back button.
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      • Profile picture of the author tedwood
        Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

        Reviews kind of fall into a special category. For a review, I might direct traffic to a semi-squeeze page with something like "Now that you've read the review, here's a link to a source I trust (or to the vendor's page). If you aren't sure yet, or you'd like to know how to get them most from an XYZ, just enter your email below, and get the info you want in your inbox."

        Most of the time, the sequence will be more like:

        Article > review with prominent opt-in > vendor via affiliate link.

        What you don't want is for someone to read a review or article, click you link, take two seconds to tell themselves 'hey, this is what I just read' and click the back button.
        Okay so in this instance are you saying that I should write an article that's totally different to the review. Then direct them to the review that also has an optin so I can follow them up later. That's going to mean a lot of extra content due to the fact I can have up to 40 reviews on some sites. What would the article content be if it's not the same and not re-written?

        Also if you're using this syndication method on your articles do you just use it to direct to the homepage or just relevant products which suit your article?
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        • Profile picture of the author DireStraits
          Originally Posted by tedwood View Post

          Okay so in this instance are you saying that I should write an article that's totally different to the review. Then direct them to the review that also has an optin so I can follow them up later. That's going to mean a lot of extra content due to the fact I can have up to 40 reviews on some sites. What would the article content be if it's not the same and not re-written?
          I could be wrong, but I assumed when John said ...

          Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

          Most of the time, the sequence will be more like:

          Article > review with prominent opt-in > vendor via affiliate link.
          ... that the article at the beginning of the process would normally be something "informational" rather than "promotional"?

          That is how it would be with my sites, anyway, and I was of the understanding that it's rare (if not unheard of) for Alexa to write anything too promotional with a view to syndicating it? (Correct me if I'm wrong? )

          Paul, I believe, manages to syndicate product reviews, but that's mainly to trade journals and the types of publications that are open to that sort of content from the start, and whose readership - for various reasons - might be more receptive to it?

          I think if you attempt to syndicate straight product reviews to the "average webmaster", you might be somewhat limiting your syndication potential, and that purely informational (non-promotional) articles would be more widely sought after.

          You can still try, of course.

          Also bear in mind that EzineArticles - if they were to play a part in your syndication strategy - won't accept anything too promotional, so you might very well have to leave them out of the equation altogether if this is your plan.

          Originally Posted by tedwood View Post

          Also if you're using this syndication method on your articles do you just use it to direct to the homepage or just relevant products which suit your article?
          Answering only for myself, I will usually send my visitors to a landing page (homepage) that contains an "introduction", links to my product presell pages (if it doesn't encompass a presell itself) and an opt-in, and each article's secondary link will be to another article of interest on my site (not the one they initially came from) in case they're not yet ready to buy or opt in and wish to read on (all of my article pages each have an opt-in in the sidebar, too).
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          • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
            Originally Posted by DireStraits View Post

            Answering only for myself, I will usually send my visitors to a landing page (homepage) that contains an "introduction", links to my product presell pages (if it doesn't encompass a presell itself) and an opt-in, and each article's secondary link will be to another article of interest on my site (not the one they initially came from) in case they're not yet ready to buy or opt in and wish to read on (all of my article pages each have an opt-in in the sidebar, too).
            Michael, you are not wrong. That's exactly what I meant.

            And this is how I usually do it, too.

            In the case of a site with mainly just product reviews, I might put together a "buying guide" or "selection guide" type of informational article, and work on getting it published widely.

            They're not common in the general arena, but some sites are open to straight up reviews. But the emphasis should be on "straight up", as opposed to "really a promo". Link the review back to a landing page as Micheal describes...
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by tedwood View Post

      What I want to know is what's the use in getting the article/review that's on your website syndicated if the traffic isn't going to go back to the specific product?
      Yes, I see your point, of course: if you have an article reviewing specifically "product X" you naturally want them clicking a link and landing on something to do with "product X".

      I don't do "product review" articles. I have some product reviews on my sites, but I don't consider them articles and wouldn't really expect anyone to syndicate them.

      Originally Posted by tedwood View Post

      Wouldn't they rather be linked to the original even if it's the same text except it has a picture or something?
      I wouldn't think so; no. No point in sending them to a copy of something they just read, surely? They'll be "outta there" in seconds, I'd think, saying to themselves "What's going on here? I just read this ...".

      Have been reading Michael's and John's comments above with interest and agreement. My own input here is no use to you, Tedwood, I'm afraid, because all my articles are about the niche, not the individual product.
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      • Profile picture of the author myob
        There is a powerful nuance of article marketing which is difficult to convey. Before you attempt to sell a product, first sell yourself to your target market. The articles I write seldom even mention a specific product, but rather focus on a specific problem, weakness, hazard, liability, industry legislation, or events affecting bottom line profit which can be remedied or optimized with a particular course of action. They are written to be readily and widely accepted for syndication.

        For example, if you sell security or alarm systems, position yourself as a security specialist by writing generic articles for businesses on crime statistics, how to secure their premises, protect their employees, internal procedures, community resources, etc. Having demonstrated your knowlege within this niche, you can then boldly claim in your resource box the esteemed "security specialist" title, with a more subdued reference to your website for "additional resources, tips, product reviews, etc."

        If done in a non-salesy approach, it will happen frequently that readers will visit your website, read and/or optin for product reviews, and even sell themselves through your affiliate links. And you'll know you've arrived when they email you and ask, "What product would you recommend?". That's how you beat the competition all to hell.
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  • Alexa, I believe it was earlier in this thread that you wrote: "I use Aweber for all my 8 lists in my 8 niches (customers and potential customers: actually I sub-divide a lot and have more than 8, really)."

    Do you mind clarifying on this a little? Why and when are these niches subdivided?

    Thanks,
    James
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  • Profile picture of the author tedwood
    Thanks for the advice myob that's given me a whole new perspective to niche marketing in general. In fact i've just done 1156 words that I intent to put on my website and then Ezine articles. This is honestly the first article i've done that's over 1,100 words. I hope that I get to reap the rewards from the harvest in the future from the seeds i've planted today.
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  • Profile picture of the author carolf
    the bad bit........ I dont understand much of this yet

    the good bit...... after a short time here I def fall into the cat of someone who is going to succeed because I know this is going straight to the top of my list of things I have to master.

    1 week ago, I had $80 in clikbank sales, about 1K wasted in crap websites.

    I week as a member here and I have a blog I am proud of, high quality articles on it, a plan, and more understanding of how to make money online then I could ever have dreamt of PLUS a thread like this jumps up and I know the surface isnt even scratched god its exciting xxxx
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by carolf View Post

      I def fall into the cat of someone who is going to succeed
      That's very much my impression.

      Originally Posted by carolf View Post

      I week as a member here and I have a blog I am proud of
      Yes indeed ... you have good reason for that, too.

      (I'm a regular visitor, too).
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  • Profile picture of the author jaiper
    Thank you! thank you all! I am really happy I found this thread. Guys, you have distilled here more knowledge and experience than you can find in many a high priced course! Real food for the intelect. It gives you a whole new sense of perspective, for us poor folks wading through piles of wsos full of gimmicks. DonĀ“t take me wrong, I think there are many wsos that are worth their weight in gold, but you do rarelly come across one that answers the question: what is this all about? And that, you have done brilliantly, Alexa, Paul, Steven, John, and all the others.

    It is the first time I felt compelled to rate, digg, bookmark, tweet, and whatnot a thread in this forum.

    It should be mandatory reading for the neophyte internet marketer. Once again, thanks.
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  • Profile picture of the author Astron
    Alexa,

    Would you mind to share roughly how many websites publish your articles in a particular niche? I know it`s not a numbers game..It`s more about the quality of the websites, how many visitors they send etc. I found about 100 potencial websites in my niche, I will be curious how many of them will actually publish my articles..
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  • Profile picture of the author Astron
    I contacted nearly 200 websites up to now, but only a fraction of them published my articles. Most of them has guest post / article submission guidlines: some of them want long articles, some of them short ones, some of them only on particular topics, in specific style, or only unique articles not published elsewhere etc. How do you guys overcome this? In a 100 websites how many of them publish your articles? Just wondering...
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      They vary enormously. In one niche I now have over 20 "regulars"; in other niches, fewer. (And ezines separately, but they're not really "sites" apart from some which do have a copy archived online, somewhere, but you can't really count that ... well, not in the same way, anyway).

      Many of my "regulars" I've originally found because they syndicated an article of mine from EZA, so I contacted them offering them more (which, in principle, they're always pretty likely to want, given that they were scouring EZA for publishable content in the first place).

      Others I've found just with blog-searches and site-searches through Google, and written to them offering them content, trying to make it sound as attractive as possible, and so on.

      But it's going to vary a lot, from niche to niche. And I think it's fair to say that in niches in which most of the high-traffic sites belong to competitors, it's not going to be so easy (something to take into account in niche selection, of course). But far from "all sites/blogs" belong to marketers, of course: many belong to enthusiasts, people running information services, people promoting ezine subscriptions (not necessarily "competitors" at all) and so on.

      I'm slightly concerned/interested by your comment "some of them only on particular topics". For myself, I only really want the ones that publish articles only on particular topics, the "particular topics" being in the same niche in which I'm trying to promote my opt-in and (affiliate) products. Otherwise the traffic isn't "targeted" (and the backlinks aren't "relevant" ones, and therefore not typically worth anything much to me).
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      • Profile picture of the author Astron
        Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

        I'm slightly concerned/interested by your comment "some of them only on particular topics". For myself, I only really want the ones that publish articles only on particular topics, the "particular topics" being in the same niche in which I'm trying to promote my opt-in and (affiliate) products. Otherwise the traffic isn't "targeted" (and the backlinks aren't "relevant" ones, and therefore not typically worth anything much to me).
        Thanks for the answer, very helpful!!
        I`m in a big and competetive niche which has plenty of subniches, but I only concentrate on 1 subniche now. I found in some of the submission guidelines that they only want articles in particular subniches / topics ( I guess because they have 1000s of articles, so they can be selective) Just like you said, it`s more difficult to find suitable websites in a competetive niche, I can confirm that Also, about 25-30 websites has specific submission guidelines..


        It sounds to me like you are treating these blogs as just another article directory - a place to dump an article for a backlink.

        How do I overcome it? I don't. I work with it. If they want short pieces, I give them short pieces. Long ones? Yup, they get long ones. Particular topics? Sure. If it's a topic I don't want to cover, I move on. Not published elsewhere? That depends on how bad I want to be included on that site. Most, I don't want it that bad, so I move on.
        Not at all. Nobody mentioned backlinks as well.. All I want is to syndicate my articles to as many websites as I can in my niche. Without modifying them for god knows how many different needs, guidelines. That`s not syndication. That is article writing for my competitors, putting unique articles on my competitor`s websites. Well, for good traffic I would do that in some cases, but again, I`m looking for article syndication opportunities.
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      Originally Posted by Astron View Post

      I contacted nearly 200 websites up to now, but only a fraction of them published my articles. Most of them has guest post / article submission guidlines: some of them want long articles, some of them short ones, some of them only on particular topics, in specific style, or only unique articles not published elsewhere etc. How do you guys overcome this? In a 100 websites how many of them publish your articles? Just wondering...
      It sounds to me like you are treating these blogs as just another article directory - a place to dump an article for a backlink.

      How do I overcome it? I don't. I work with it. If they want short pieces, I give them short pieces. Long ones? Yup, they get long ones. Particular topics? Sure. If it's a topic I don't want to cover, I move on. Not published elsewhere? That depends on how bad I want to be included on that site. Most, I don't want it that bad, so I move on.

      How many out of 100? It varies. Sometimes you get on a roll, and several say yes. Sometimes you hit a slump, and no one says yes. It happens.

      You have to keep your eyes on the prize. You want to be building a personal syndicate to which you can continue sending content. It's a cumulative endeavor built over time, not a digital one night stand...
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      • Profile picture of the author DaveHughes
        Okay, I have to say you guys have opened a whole new world to me.

        Back in the stone age (2007 or so), I had a blog devoted to MMORPG players, which I did just for fun. At its peak, it was linked to by most of the major corporate-owned blogs targeted at the same demographic, quoted on many of them, and had nice traffic.

        I had three different offers from people wanting to republish some of my posts on their site, and never...said...yes.

        Sigh.

        I still kick myself about that to this day.

        The way it became fairly well-known? I connected with most of the other leading bloggers in the niche, got to know them, and linked back and forth with them on a regular basis.

        And now...there it sits.

        Having said all of that, I think it's time I put some effort into this syndication model.
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  • Profile picture of the author onSubie
    Thanks MYOB. That was my assumption, I guess, as I spend much more time reading books and magazines than I do reading articles at EZA.

    This is an excellent discussion (started a while ago I see) and really emphasizes that real writers write and Internet Marketers "create content".

    With no intended judgement of where that line is drawn, of course!



    Mahlon
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    • Profile picture of the author davebross
      First, a hearty thanks to all for everything here!

      One more question for Paul/MYOB....

      You mention:

      "Most of my subscribers are soon sold off as leads for example to specialists in real estate, mortgage, insurance, medical, industry, technology, MLM, IM, etc because I don't have many affiliate products to sell them. Lead generation is an additional profit center."

      Would you elaborate on what you're doing here? I know you're not selling off your list subscribers, right?
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      • Profile picture of the author myob
        Originally Posted by davebross View Post

        Would you elaborate on what you're doing here? I know you're not selling off your list subscribers, right?
        This is one of several reasons why I hesitated at first to give these figures in answer to a specific question regarding what is the potential for article syndication. Figures of such magnitude always seem to be more distractive in explaining this model than instructive. The actual internal processing varies widely by niche, and is not relevant to this discussion because nearly all of my subscribers and sales really do come from using this article syndication model.

        As mentioned in the post from which you obtained the quote clip, I generate about 40,000 subscribers daily. After a 4 month selection, selling, and sorting process, about (80-90%) are either eliminated or sold as leads. Building lists need not be the only reason for article syndication. The upshot is that with perhaps millions of websites, blogs and ezines as potential publishers for any given niche, the leveraging power of article syndication is untapped. And the possibilities for marketing to targeted readers are seemingly equally as endless.
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        • Profile picture of the author davebross
          Thanks again Paul.

          I should have looked at your "Full Service Advertising in DOZENS of Targeted Niches" link for the answer to what I asked....and why it's just a distraction/off topic in this conversation.
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          • Profile picture of the author Caniac4ever
            I am mostly a lurker, but I couldn't help but post here. This thread is just amazing. A great big thank you to everyone that made it such a success!
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            • Profile picture of the author mrdomains
              Thanks to OP for kicking off what has grown to be a WF classic. I hope everyone interested in the article marketing/syndication topic is paying attention because this thread is pure gospel!

              One thing though that has only been touched on: your level of success in this (as in any other moneymaking adventure) will depend on if you treat it like a business or not. You can syndicate everywhere and have all the subscribers/visitors you want but unless you know who they are, and what they want (i.e. how did you get them), your journey will be a steady uphill struggle.

              If you read the thread you will notice how those who do well have a good grip on the numbers, organize and manage and evaluate their operations in detail, and apply testing more than guessing.

              Asset Management may be boring sometimes but it makes all the difference.
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    • Profile picture of the author stong
      That's an excellent set of guidelines. Thanks a bunch! Gonna do my best to market my articles from now on.
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  • Profile picture of the author Joshua Rigley
    Banned
    Paul, you keep mentioning that you "sell" your leads. I'm not sure if you've clarified yet, but what exactly do you meant by it? I'm a little surprised; most people make a point of telling their prospects that their information will be kept private and not given to 3rd parties, and I'd be pretty annoyed if someone did that to me.
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    • Profile picture of the author danr62
      Originally Posted by Joshua Rigley View Post

      Paul, you keep mentioning that you "sell" your leads. I'm not sure if you've clarified yet, but what exactly do you meant by it? I'm a little surprised; most people make a point of telling their prospects that their information will be kept private and not given to 3rd parties, and I'd be pretty annoyed if someone did that to me.
      Certainly you've heard of lead brokers before? This is where a website (or other data collection point) is setup with the only purpose of collecting the information of people interested in a type of product or industry.

      Think 1 800 dentist . com or zillow . com.

      These are not really any different from a list building type of landing page. The only difference from what I can tell is that it exists only to collect your information to be sold to businesses or marketing lists.

      For instance, zillow collects information on people looking to buy a home. If you want to view the details of a property on their site, you need to opt in first. Your information is then sold to a real estate agent that will be happy to call you about the property and other properties in the area.

      From my understanding, it's very lucrative.
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      Originally Posted by Joshua Rigley View Post

      Paul, you keep mentioning that you "sell" your leads. I'm not sure if you've clarified yet, but what exactly do you meant by it? I'm a little surprised; most people make a point of telling their prospects that their information will be kept private and not given to 3rd parties, and I'd be pretty annoyed if someone did that to me.
      Josh, another way to go about it is to a) not make a big deal about that and b) make it an option on the opt-in.

      A lot of big companies are using contests and sweepstakes to build their lists. These entry forms are basically squeeze pages. Your choices are fill out the form or leave, right?

      At the bottom, right above the submit button, you'll often find a series of check boxes.
      > I agree to the sweepstakes rules and privacy policy.
      > I want to receive updates and special offers from Company.
      > I want to receive updates and special offers from Company's partners.

      <Submit>
      Many times, these boxes are pre-checked, and you uncheck them to opt out. Actually read the privacy policy, and you aften find a clause stating that information may be sold.

      It's a bit different than the usual IM-type come-on, in that the person filling out the form genuinely wants to receive further offers, coupons and new product updates.
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    • Profile picture of the author myob
      Originally Posted by Joshua Rigley View Post

      Paul, you keep mentioning that you "sell" your leads. I'm not sure if you've clarified yet, but what exactly do you meant by it? I'm a little surprised; most people make a point of telling their prospects that their information will be kept private and not given to 3rd parties, and I'd be pretty annoyed if someone did that to me.

      There is an option for subscribers to request their names not be released to business partners. Nearly all of my marketing is ultimately targeted toward the high end business, professional, engineering, industry, scientific, medical, telecommunications and finance arenas. Based on their buying patterns, these are selectively sorted for being marketed as leads for offline professional sales for example; capital equipment, finance, investments, insurance, real estate, business/industrial/medical supplies, etc.
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  • Profile picture of the author keepgoin
    Another invaluable thread, thanks so much guys for the info, particularly about organising email lists - useful!

    Andy

    :-)
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    • Profile picture of the author J smith
      Wow, is this thread awesome or what? Glad I found it, so much useful information. (and I am still on page 2!)

      Q quick questions for Alexa, Paul and others who use this method. Also I guess it doesn't really matter (after all, traffic = money) but how do you monetize the traffic/email list you get? Do you push your own offers? cpa? Affiliates?

      Do you think it matters? I want to give this a try, but I kind of think that having say adsense as the main way to monetize the site would make it seem less of an authority site. (in a way it'd be similar with cpa offers too I guess, or other's affiliate products)

      Any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated!
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Alexa and MYOBs names next to each others? How did that happen? lol. I mean, sure myob used to be pretty cute before he turned into a tap dancing star... so I guess I can see it. Birds of a feather... but that was a year ago... He hasnt been a girl in a looong time! lol
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  • Profile picture of the author stong
    Hello good people, I'm here again for another question about this particular marketing technique that involves typing words into the computer and publishing them on webpages so people can read them and possibly buy my stuff after that.

    Okay, enough jesting. Here's my question:

    I've been thinking about article syndication a lot - specifically, where I'm going to spread them to. Ezinearticles has been nice for a baby step, but I'm growing impatient and the people that syndicate my articles from there don't exactly have high-ranking authority sites.

    What I'm planning to do now is to do a quick search for content websites in the niche I'm working on, and ask those websites if they would publish my article, as well as a little link that goes back to my website.

    Some of those sites are really nice, in that they opening welcome article submissions. However, what I've found is that they account for just 10% of the SERPs. The rest of them don't say anything about wanting more articles from me; some of them even look professional enough that they seem to have an entire team of content writers working in-house.

    What I want to know is: Is it okay if I knock on their doors with a friendly email, as well as a 'hey you know what I have some articles want to publish them (ohpleaseohplease)?' Will they bite? Do most of them accept articles even though they don't openly say so?

    I'll accept any good answers and advice, although I'd love to hear from the pros for this one.
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    • Profile picture of the author DireStraits
      Originally Posted by stong View Post

      What I want to know is: Is it okay if I knock on their doors with a friendly email, as well as a 'hey you know what I have some articles want to publish them (ohpleaseohplease)?' Will they bite? Do most of them accept articles even though they don't openly say so?
      Absolutely - go for it. If you don't ask, you don't get. What is there to lose?

      Don't be half-arsed with your approach, though - sell yourself and your content well. I tend to send quite lengthy, in-depth emails introducing myself, talking about my site and about theirs, why I think my articles are a good match for their audience, and really cease the opportunity to better my odds. Along with a link to my EzineArticles "portfolio" for that niche and pen-name, I'll also mention that if they don't feel my articles' style is suitable, I'd love to hear how they could be made so.

      For some sites, it's the only way it's going to happen because not all of them go out looking in article directories for content. However, that doesn't mean they're not open to receiving it. I'm not actively advertising for a million dollars and a trophy nymphomaniacal girlfriend right now, but if a kind donor or suitable candidate came knocking at my door, I wouldn't say no.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kelly Verge
    This is why I come to the Warrior Forum.

    I've dabbled in the past with article submission to the big article directories. However, I never really tried to understand the real difference in methods from those who suggest "minimum articles for backlinks" versus the genuine, strong content that others talk about.

    I've tried submitting 1000+-word quality articles to the article dirctories, but while I've had a few of them published, I've been very unimpressed with the numbers. At the same time, my clickthrough rates from the article directories for articles of this length (and caliber) are significantly lower than they are with my minimum-length teaser articles.

    Truthfully, I've had much better luck focusing on content creation on my own site, and have basically ignored doing anything else with my content. I haven't submitted anything to any article directory in nearly a year.

    Finally, however, I understand.

    Thank you for explaining how I can write the quality content I prefer writing, and use it for real syndication.

    Talk about an "aha!" moment.
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  • Profile picture of the author EvolBaby
    I just found this thread! Dang! I'm going to have to take a day off to read through it all and get the right references!

    I've been writing on the web since the mid '90s. Always made money at it and started doing more IM related writing for the past year. Was wondering about syndication and someone pointed me to this thread.

    My next step is to a more higher paying and easier work model. I'm really in the catbird seat regarding working from home as I practically invented working from home on a computer.

    I've learned so much the past year that syndication is definitely the next step to go. Thanks for this thread!
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    • Profile picture of the author discrat
      This may sound stupid but what is meant by Syndication ?? Is that where you take an article and go to a submit articles site and they blast it out to over a 1,000 article directories with your name and link in a resource box. Or is it when you go to one article directory and write an article and then you get publishers who use your article on one of their own sites ??

      Thanks
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      • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
        Originally Posted by discrat View Post

        This may sound stupid but what is meant by Syndication ?? Is that where you take an article and go to a submit articles site and they blast it out to over a 1,000 article directories with your name and link in a resource box. Or is it when you go to one article directory and write an article and then you get publishers who use your article on one of their own sites ??

        Thanks
        Your second try is closer to the truth, as it's being discussed in this thread.

        Many submission services have chosen to use the word 'syndication' as a synonym for spamming article directories.

        Posting an article on one to a handful of well-chosen directory with the aim of getting republished is one facet of article syndication. For most of the people who practice it and write about it publicly, it's often the first step in getting started.

        If you want to take it further, you start building your own private syndicate of publishers who welcome your new articles.

        What you want to end up with is a sequence like this:

        1. Publish the article on your own site and get it indexed.

        2. Package the article (usually either plain text or basic html) and send it to the members of your own syndicate.

        3. Lastly, post it to your hand-picked article directories. Set up a Google alert so you know when another publisher picks up and uses your article.

        4. Contact that publisher and offer to send them new articles before they are posted to the directories.

        You can also spend time (yours or a paid researcher's) to find sites, blogs, newsletters, ezines, etc. in your niche that publish other peoples' content. Actively contact them to see if they might be interested in seeing what you offer.

        Does that help?
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      • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
        Banned
        Originally Posted by discrat View Post

        This may sound stupid but what is meant by Syndication ?? Is that where you take an article and go to a submit articles site and they blast it out to over a 1,000 article directories with your name and link in a resource box.
        No - that's "mass submission".

        That isn't really article marketing at all. That's just "article directory marketing", which is a form of attempted SEO. People do it "for the backlinks", but typically not too successfully, because they're all non-context-relevant PR-0 backlinks, and these days their lack of context-relevance really matters.

        "Syndication" - in this context - means, more or less, "widespread re-publication in locations with already-targeted traffic".

        Originally Posted by discrat View Post

        Or is it when you go to one article directory and write an article and then you get publishers who use your article on one of their own sites ??
        Yes - that's "passive syndication": after doing everything else you want to do with it, you just dump your article in EZA - not much point in using other directories too, for most of us - and hope that people who "want content" will take and re-publish it. This does work - and is how I got started. But it isn't really the main part of article syndication, it's just "one part" of it.

        http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ifference.html

        http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...explained.html

        http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...-question.html

        http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...e-wonders.html

        http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...-articles.html

        http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...-articles.html

        http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...-articles.html

        http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...necessary.html

        PS - sorry: I posted at the same time as John, above, and hadn't seen his post.
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  • Profile picture of the author Astron
    I`ve got a question regarding the article topic brainstorming..

    I`m in a very small niche and I try to write 4-5 article weekly for article syndication. My problem is that I pretty much exhausted the article topics after a couple of dozens of articles.. I could write many articles on one topic (in different angle..) but I`m affraid my syndicator partners would turn away, they are looking for unique ideas, topics etc. every week. I don`t think that they would publish my articles if I can`t come up with new topics and I just "repeat myself". They could say: Hey it`s a good article again, but you already wrote one on this, and we don`t need 10 articles dealing with the same issue on our website...

    So how do you come up with article ideas every week in a small niche? Is it ok if I try to write many articles on a single topic? Otherwise I don`t know how can I keep providing articles for years, how can I syndicate hundreds of them.
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    • Profile picture of the author packerfan
      Originally Posted by Astron View Post

      I`ve got a question regarding the article topic brainstorming..

      I`m in a very small niche and I try to write 4-5 article weekly for article syndication. My problem is that I pretty much exhausted the article topics after a couple of dozens of articles.. I could write many articles on one topic (in different angle..) but I`m affraid my syndicator partners would turn away, they are looking for unique ideas, topics etc. every week. I don`t think that they would publish my articles if I can`t come up with new topics and I just "repeat myself". They could say: Hey it`s a good article again, but you already wrote one on this, and we don`t need 10 articles dealing with the same issue on our website...

      So how do you come up with article ideas every week in a small niche? Is it ok if I try to write many articles on a single topic? Otherwise I don`t know how can I keep providing articles for years, how can I syndicate hundreds of them.
      This doesn't make any sense, really. Just get creative. Let's say your "niche" is 1 eyed blue betta fish.

      You could write 1,000 articles about evolution that caused them to be 1 eyed, blue, their history.

      Another 1,000 on care tips.

      Another 1,000 on the psychology of children who have their 1 eyed blue betta fish die.

      Another 1,000 on how much more success or failure in life the fish owner's have.

      Another 1,000 on why 2 eyed green betta fish make great substitutes if you can't find the 1 eyed betta fish.

      Obviously I'm having a little fun with this, but really, no matter how small a niche is (I assure you it's a lot bigger than you think), there are an endless number of topics.

      Don't confuse highly searched keywords for "topics". Readers in your niche care about a lot of things. If you really understand your market, you'll never run out of things to write.
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    • Profile picture of the author stong
      Originally Posted by Astron View Post

      I`ve got a question regarding the article topic brainstorming..

      I`m in a very small niche and I try to write 4-5 article weekly for article syndication. My problem is that I pretty much exhausted the article topics after a couple of dozens of articles.. I could write many articles on one topic (in different angle..) but I`m affraid my syndicator partners would turn away, they are looking for unique ideas, topics etc. every week. I don`t think that they would publish my articles if I can`t come up with new topics and I just "repeat myself". They could say: Hey it`s a good article again, but you already wrote one on this, and we don`t need 10 articles dealing with the same issue on our website...

      So how do you come up with article ideas every week in a small niche? Is it ok if I try to write many articles on a single topic? Otherwise I don`t know how can I keep providing articles for years, how can I syndicate hundreds of them.
      What I've found is that you can always drill deeper for more topic ideas. There is always something to say about something, if you know what I mean.

      I'll try and use packerfan's blue betta fish idea as an example. Let's try the 'caring for blue betta fish' niche and we'll drill down from there:

      basics of caring for blue betta fish
      - how to ensure your fish is happy and healthy
      - different types of fish food
      - fish food A: pros and cons
      - fish food B: pros and cons
      - is fish food C really poisonous?
      - more about ingredient X in fish food C: why it's so deadly
      - what kind of fish food is best?

      These article titles about fish food are all from the top of my head, and it's just one small sub-niche on the topic of caring for blue betta fish, which is in itself a sub-niche of betta fish in general.

      I made a mistake before in not drilling hard enough, and consequently wrote a few articles that I cringe at nowadays before cannibalizing the whole thing and turning it into 4 unique articles. The fact is, if you think hard about it, there's always something to say.

      Hope this helps.
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      Originally Posted by Astron View Post

      I`ve got a question regarding the article topic brainstorming..

      I`m in a very small niche and I try to write 4-5 article weekly for article syndication. My problem is that I pretty much exhausted the article topics after a couple of dozens of articles.. I could write many articles on one topic (in different angle..) but I`m affraid my syndicator partners would turn away, they are looking for unique ideas, topics etc. every week. I don`t think that they would publish my articles if I can`t come up with new topics and I just "repeat myself". They could say: Hey it`s a good article again, but you already wrote one on this, and we don`t need 10 articles dealing with the same issue on our website...

      So how do you come up with article ideas every week in a small niche? Is it ok if I try to write many articles on a single topic? Otherwise I don`t know how can I keep providing articles for years, how can I syndicate hundreds of them.
      First off, your list of syndication partners is not the same as a list of auto-approve directories, and should not be treated the same. Regardless how good or creative your articles are, not every partner is going to use every article you send them.

      I'm going to give you a little different slant on things that you just got from packerfan and stong. Instead of, or in addition to, drilling down in your subject, look at 'spreading upwards' in your selection of potential partners.

      You may be focused on a very narrow niche, but I'm guessing that it's part of a bigger niche which is part of an even bigger market, right?

      Instead of trying to create 4-5 articles per week for a small number of partners within your very narrow niche, try to create one really good article per week and look for new partners to send them to.

      Take the betta fish example...

      Starting from the narrowest niche and working toward more broad topic areas:

      > 1 eyed blue betta fish
      > blue betta fish
      > betta fish
      > aquarium fish
      > aquariums in general

      At each level, you may find the perfect home for one of your best quality articles, one that will send you real human visitors for years.
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  • Profile picture of the author David McKee
    While we are on this topic, I would like to ask how many of you who syndicate articles use your real names, or a pen name when submitting articles to syndicators like Ezine Articles for example.

    For example, I did an expert search for all authors in the EZA with the first name "Alexis"

    I found 1 named Alexis Smith who had 1 article about piano music, however strangely enough, I found others who had suspiciously similar pictures, but different names: Alexis Riley, Alexis Bourdaine, etc. And these pictures looked suspiciously like some I have seen here in WF....

    So, just wondering if that is a strategy.

    -DTM
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    • Profile picture of the author myob
      It's really not uncommon to use multiple pen names for writing articles in widely unrelated niches. For example, I use several dozen pen names for the niches in which I market. Some of these "virtual personas" have become well known of themselves in not just EZA, but also as "authorities" in highly competitive arenas. This marketing strategy is effective particularly when you are targeting the same demographic for disparate niches.
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      • Profile picture of the author David McKee
        Originally Posted by myob View Post

        It's really not uncommon to use multiple pen names for writing articles in widely unrelated niches. For example, I use several dozen pen names for the niches in which I market. Some of these "virtual personas" have become well known of themselves in not just EZA, but also as "authorities" in highly competitive arenas. This marketing strategy is effective particularly when you are targeting the same demographic for disparate niches.
        But what would be the downside of just using your own name? Or would that tend to dilute your "niche expertise" because your name appeared across multiple categories.

        It is an interesting aspect that I have not heard discussed much before.

        Thanks for this insight, btw!

        -DTM
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      • Profile picture of the author art72
        Originally Posted by myob View Post

        It's really not uncommon to use multiple pen names for writing articles in widely unrelated niches. For example, I use several dozen pen names for the niches in which I market. Some of these "virtual personas" have become well known of themselves in not just EZA, but also as "authorities" in highly competitive arenas. This marketing strategy is effective particularly when you are targeting the same demographic for disparate niches.
        In regard to the "bolded" above, I find this humorously coinciding with an accusation my wife has made for years...

        She's constantly accusing me of having 'several personalities' in and throughout my writings, and by that my 'penmanship' and 'personality' changes within some 10-12 different styles on paper. So she has made this 'bizarre' correlation that I am writing in the tongues of several different people; each with their own unique character or persona.

        Who knows, this could be greatly beneficial in creating my 'various' pen names and 'protecting' my authority in several niches in the future.

        Until now, I never saw the point in acknowledging the benefits this could have in niche marketing.

        As usual, this thread is the thread that keeps sewing my interests with some awesome insights!!!

        Sometimes saying; "Thank-You" cannot begin to measure the 'value' delivered in this forum, this thread being a prime example of that mention!

        All the Best,

        Art
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by David McKee View Post

      But what would be the downside of just using your own name?
      For me, there'd be two ...

      (i) I'd be concerned that if customers in my (fictitious) cauliflower soup recipes niche saw that I'm also the expert in the (equally fictitious) domestic desalination niche, it might impact my credibility in both niches, as some might think that instead of "just being a cauliflower soup enthusiast", I'm "just a marketer who'll write about any niche in which I think people will buy stuff", and ...

      (ii) I wouldn't want anyone who knows my real name (which I use only here and very occasionally in a couple of other forums in which also I don't discuss my niches - and of course I had to use it for my writing business, when I did that, so that I could get paid) to know what my niches are.

      Originally Posted by David McKee View Post

      I found 1 named Alexis Smith who had 1 article about piano music, however strangely enough, I found others who had suspiciously similar pictures, but different names: Alexis Riley, Alexis Bourdaine, etc.
      I see exactly what you mean. Alexis Riley and Alexis Bourdaine are clearly the same person, and I think Alexis Smith probably is, also (judging by the subject of her one article being the same niche as Alexis Riley's?).

      I'm none of them, though.

      Even closer to my own name, there are also an "Alexa Smith", a "Courtney Alexa Smith" and an "Alexa M. Smith" all listed at Ezine Articles, and I'm none of those either (those are the ones I'm more used to "being asked about" in this context!). :p

      I do have 8 different pen-names at EZA, but none of them is anything like Alexa (or "Alexis").

      Even more concerningly, I'm not the "Alexa Smith" who owns alexasmith.com, whose website on that url has allegedly been "coming soon" for rather a long time and who doesn't respond to inquiries about buying the domain. I do actually know who she is, though: she's a model, but you certainly wouldn't confuse her photo with any of mine as she happens to be a black girl.
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  • Profile picture of the author plongmire
    I only use my own name in the one market I love to write and learn about...but I'm also a women...only on Friday nights...and a really buff dude...and no it isn't weight loss.

    But be careful that you use your own name on something you dont mind being attached to for a long time, and or something that could hurt you in future interviews, job interviews, or people you may know or know in the future.

    I am not saying that we are unethical in the things we write and promote, but it is always good to protect your brand. For me, I am the brand and protect what I write and post in my name and even pen names.

    But it is so easy to create pen names and use them that it is wise to have one for each niche.
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    • Profile picture of the author DCudmore
      First of all great thread.

      This concept is clear to me in all but one aspect, which I may have missed somewhere.

      When you write a new article and post it on your own website first, do you wait for it to get indexed before you send it out to your syndication list? or does google know you posted it first on your site even if it indexes your site later than someone elses?
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      • Profile picture of the author DireStraits
        Originally Posted by JTringer View Post

        First of all great thread.

        This concept is clear to me in all but one aspect, which I may have missed somewhere.

        When you write a new article and post it on your own website first, do you wait for it to get indexed before you send it out to your syndication list? or does google know you posted it first on your site even if it indexes your site later than someone elses?
        Simple answer: wait for it to be indexed on your site first.
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  • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
    Banned
    Originally Posted by Marcinao View Post

    1. How does your bio/source-boxes look like?
    Mine are a natural continuation of the article, followed by an implicit invitation for the reader to visit my site (with a clickable link) for "more of the same".

    It's non-salesy and non-promotional. But still, subtly, a "call to action".

    I'm deliberately avoiding "writing for clicks", because few people will syndicate my articles in front of their already-targeted traffic if I do that.

    As explained in this post (see point (iv), half-way through the post): http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ml#post3188316

    Originally Posted by Marcinao View Post

    I mean do you test different variations and check the amount of clicks?
    No, and if I did, I might even choose the ones that get fewer clicks in Ezine Articles. My articles are going there for publishers to find, not for potential customers, for all the reasons explained in this post: http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ml#post5075780 <--- this post answers your question, I think.

    What matters to me is (a) in how many relevant places with targeted traffic I can get my articles re-published, and (b) how many people click through from those sites, not how many click through from anywhere where I can actually measure them.

    Originally Posted by Marcinao View Post

    2. Where do you send your traffic?
    Almost always to the landing page of my site, which has a prominently incentivized opt-in at the top.

    Originally Posted by Marcinao View Post

    Your aim is to get people on your list...
    Definitely.

    Originally Posted by Marcinao View Post

    so is it only a squeeze page or maybe homepage of your blog with big shiny opt-in box? Did you test what has better CTR?
    Yes, I split-tested this in 4 of my niches.

    In all 4, the squeeze page converted better (more people opted in), and over the following 6 months the lists built from the squeeze pages earned me less money. Significantly less money.

    So it would have been a huge mistake for me to assume that the bigger list produced the bigger income.

    I don't believe this! Higher opt-in rate, fewer sales

    1 Page Squeeze Site for List Building

    What gets peopole to sign up?

    Squeeze Page on Landing Page a Turn Off?

    It's easy to talk of "conversions", in this regard, meaning "the number of people who opt in and join your list". Unfortunately, however, it isn't quite as simple as that: one has to look some way beyond this, and monitor longer-term income, in order validly and correctly to decide what sort of opt-in page to use.

    Originally Posted by Marcinao View Post

    BTW: do you create squeeze pages under a totally new domain or just a sub page?
    I don't use them any more, after all my testing.

    Originally Posted by Marcinao View Post

    I plan to implement articles syndication too and I want to be super prepared and most of all, do not loose any of this hard gained traffic. I assume none of us wants to Thanks!
    Good luck! (If you haven't already seen it, this post may possibly help: http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ml#post5035794 ).
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    • Profile picture of the author BillyBee
      This is still my favorite thread of all time. Thanks so much to Alexa and MYOB.

      Can you point me to any examples of what a site like this might look like?

      I do get the concept of using a relevant landing page instead of a squeeze page, but I'm curious as to how the entire site looks and is structured.

      Does it have a blog? Are there lots of other tabs with links that lead to other pages? Does it aim to be an authority site of sorts? Or is it comparatively simpler to keep visitors focused?

      I'm not expecting anyone to reveal their sites, but if you know of any other site that serves as a good example to give me a more concrete idea, I'd appreciate seeing it.

      Thanks again.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Marcinao View Post

      Exactly, I meant click through from these sites that re-published your article, not EZA. Do you measure it somehow?
      I don't know how to ... I don't really see a way to know this, when it's someone else's site. I can tell how many clicks I get from anywhere, of course (you can see this with Google Analytics or any equivalent) but not a click-through rate.

      Originally Posted by Marcinao View Post

      Can't find this one ...

      Originally Posted by Marcinao View Post

      I like that one (apart from the obnoxious pop-up, of course).

      Originally Posted by Marcinao View Post

      Do you try different homepage layouts on your websites?
      Not as much as I should, but my technical skills are limited, I don't like outsourcing, and after many and varied experiences over a few years, I'm a firm believer that website design is really unimportant to my business and for the most part to my customers. I'm a real skepchick on this subject. I think "website design" is of far more interest and significance to marketers than to customers. I've tested a few different styles, but evolved a basic one that works well for me, is easy to put up, and looks good (I think). I have a small opt-in box on every page and a big one, prominently incentivized, on the landing page.

      Originally Posted by Marcinao View Post

      I can focus on building a simple & clean website (I guess 4 sub-pages is enough), with great content and focused on building a list. No additional domains, squeeze pages, etc. Smaller list, but more money? Can it be better?
      Yes, exactly - I agree completely.

      About 4 pages is enough for me to start a site and attract traffic to it.

      As I'm gradually producing articles, the site will grow, because I'll publish every article there first (even though not always "prominently on display").

      Originally Posted by Marcinao View Post

      PS. If anyone can share a source of good writers with reasonable prices, I'd appreciate that.
      Here are two Warriors who are good writers and have surprisingly good prices: Dee Jones and James Logan. I'm sure both of them will know what you mean if you say you want "articles for syndication". The problem with answering this question is that there are so many good writers with good prices here that it's sooooo easy to offend all the people you don't mention, each time. :rolleyes: Anyway, these are two people both of whom, I think, should charge more than they do.
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      • Profile picture of the author Troy_Phillips
        Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

        I'm a firm believer that website design is really unimportant to my business and for the most part to my customers. I'm a real skepchick on this subject. I think "website design" is of far more interest and significance to marketers than to customers. I've tested a few different styles, but evolved a basic one that works well for me, is easy to put up, and looks good (I think). I have a small opt-in box on every page and a big one, prominently incentivized, on the landing page.


        You can sell a Pringle off of a dog turd if you target your audience correctly.
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      • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Marcinao View Post

        PS. I made a mistake here is the correct link How to Be Rich - Get Simple Tips On Personal Finance
        BTW: This guy is a "quite" well-known marketer.
        Thanks - interesting.

        I generally have my opt-in box (which is on every page) where he has that green box that says "Dream Job Secrets", and on my landing page, I have the text incentivizing the opt-in where he has "Forget about constant frugality".

        Originally Posted by Marcinao View Post

        One more question: how narrow are your niches?
        Well, they're "niches" rather than "markets". Sorry - perhaps not the most helpful of observations, because these things are a bit subjective ...

        Originally Posted by Marcinao View Post

        I wonder if sometimes you have problems with monetizing your list, because you don't want to promote over and over the same products to the same people. Of course you can produce your own stuff, but in general, what's your monetizing strategy?
        I've selected the niches so as not so run out of things to promote (among other factors). I get a high proportion of my income from ClickBank, but some from Amazon and other affiliate programs. I sell mostly information products but some physical ones, too.

        Originally Posted by Marcinao View Post

        (meanwhile you focus on getting new subscribers)? How do you do it?
        Kind of answered in these posts (I think!) ...

        http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ml#post5300985 ...

        http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ml#post5849674

        http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ml#post5791851

        http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ml#post6016248

        http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ml#post5687610
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  • Profile picture of the author JMarno
    Wow. My little blurb of admiration and thanks cannot begin to express how much I appreciate and have learned from this thread. Thanks so much to Alexa, Paul, Paul again, John, and all the others who asked as well as answered my questions without me having to ask.
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  • Profile picture of the author Lucian Lada
    I want to bump this thread again, because I have a few questions, which aim more towards Paul, but obviously everyone is invited to answer them:

    1. You've said that all your lists (or almost all) start as buyers, as you try to sell them a cheap CB product. My question is, how cheap? is a $9,99 product enough? I presume that the goal is not necessarily to make money out of the sales, but rather to separate the wheat from the chaff (buyers from non buyers).

    2. Do you drive the traffic from the articles that you syndicate directly to the pre-selling page, maybe telling them that the way to get more great advice/information from you is to buy your product (claiming something like "it takes me a lot of time and effort to write these emails, and there should be some kind of reward for it".)?

    3. I get that you promote to them products that are priced higher and higher. Does that mean they move from a list to another one? For example list no. 1 promotes products in the price range of $20-$60, when they buy they are moved to list no. 2 that promotes products in the price range of $50-$90 and so on?

    4. Do you offer a bonus to every single product that you promote? I was thinking that if, for example, I promote 3 different types of dog foods, one relevant bonus to all of them might do the trick, like how to feed them. (In any case, is there a plugin similar to CBListAutomator that does the same think for Amazon purchases? I have yet to find one.)


    Thanks in advance, and I hope I'm not asking you to reveal too many secrets.
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    • Profile picture of the author myob
      The system I use is actually quite simple in concept. For every niche I'm marketing, article syndication is the primary source of targeted traffic. These articles serve only to demonstrate or establish my "expertise" within the particular niche, and are never product-oriented or promotional. And because of the generic characteristic of these articles, they are readily accepted for syndication by literally tens of thousands of publishers. Leveraging articles in this manner through wide distribution is maximizing the full potential of article syndication.

      How this massive amount of traffic is processed may differ among professional article syndication marketers, and my own internal processing method is not recommended for even the moderately experienced. What I suggest is use this traffic to build lists of incentivized opt-in subscribers, then nurture them with value-added messages or freebies before hitting them up with your offers. Some of the best practices in list-building are discussed in this thread and elsewhere. Also, I strongly recommend this timeless classic: Turn Words Into Traffic by Jim Edwards. Although quite dated (older than Google), it is eerily more current than any similar marketing handbook I have read, especially regarding SEO relative to Google's recent and ongoing algorithm updates.

      In my marketing model, nothing is ever blatantly "sold"; only recommended on the strength of credentials perceived as a result of my article writing. No real credentials are claimed in any of my niches, but there is a subtlety of assumption reflected by the quality of the articles and the type of publications in which they appear. Coupled with quality articles accepted by quality publications is a kind of implied endorsement by the publisher. This is an unbeatable combination in even the most hotly competitive markets because of its virtually unlimited range, market reach, and highly convertible warm traffic.

      Traffic from articles is directed to niche-specific websites which offer additional, in-depth resources and a relevant, nominally priced Clickbank product ($20-$47). Buyers of these products are incentivized to optin for additional information and niche updates with a short report, generally covering how to maximize the benefits of the Clickbank product. This report also contains a number of other "recommended" Clickbank and Amazon products.

      Subscribers receive messages on a daily basis which includes niche information, tips, resources, jokes, and increasingly hard hitting promotions for the next product in line. Non-buyers are culled from lists every 90 days. The remaining active buyers continue to be processed, and promotions are incrementally increased to higher end products. As new buyers are added to the lists, the process begins again. This may seem like a "meat grinder", but in reality this model has proven to be quite effective in promoting hundreds of products up to and including Amazon products in the high five-figure price range. Nearly 60% of my subscribers have been buying regularly for five years or more.

      The important point to understand here is that article syndication can be an extremely powerful traffic-generation tool in its own right; completely independent of SEO considerations. As I mentioned in my opening sentence in this post, article syndication is a simple concept. Unfortunately in recent years it has been denigrated and misused by the misguided and nefarious article spinning crowd. Essentially everything Alexa and I as well as other professional article syndication marketers have written in this thread can be summarized right here: Quality articles published in quality publications drives quality traffic.
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Long
        Holy. Freaking. Cow.

        For those who know how to use and apply the information, the post below might be the single most useful post I've ever read here.

        I would have gladly paid hundreds of dollars to be able to read, learn and absorb this information (and I'm a notorious tightwad - realistically, I would have paid far more). It's literally worth hundreds of thousands of dollars in the right hands.

        If only I'd been smart enough to put all the pieces together sooner.

        I've bounced in and out of Article Marketing for nearly a decade - even wrote a book about it in 2009 where I espoused many of the same virtues described here - but even then, I never entirely put the complete puzzle together.

        This entire thread has been an eye-opener - I've learned more in the past few hours than I've learned in the past 5 years, but Paul's post below takes the cake.

        :: Gets on knees and bows to Paul :: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

        You, Alexa and all the other folks here have created a pivot point in my life. My adventures online have been interesting to say the least. This will be the definitive next act in my evolution.

        -Mike

        Originally Posted by myob View Post

        The system I use is actually quite simple in concept. For every niche I'm marketing, article syndication is the primary source of targeted traffic. These articles serve only to demonstrate or establish my "expertise" within the particular niche, and are never product-oriented or promotional. And because of the generic characteristic of these articles, they are readily accepted for syndication by literally tens of thousands of publishers. Leveraging articles in this manner through wide distribution is maximizing the full potential of article syndication.

        How this massive amount of traffic is processed may differ among professional article syndication marketers, and my own internal processing method is not recommended for even the moderately experienced. What I suggest is use this traffic to build lists of incentivized opt-in subscribers, then nurture them with value-added messages or freebies before hitting them up with your offers. Some of the best practices in list-building are discussed in this thread and elsewhere. Also, I strongly recommend this timeless classic: Turn Words Into Traffic by Jim Edwards. Although quite dated (older than Google), it is eerily more current than any similar marketing handbook I have read, especially regarding SEO relative to Google's recent and ongoing algorithm updates.

        In my marketing model, nothing is ever blatantly "sold"; only recommended on the strength of credentials perceived as a result of my article writing. No real credentials are claimed in any of my niches, but there is a subtlety of assumption reflected by the quality of the articles and the type of publications in which they appear. Coupled with quality articles accepted by quality publications is a kind of implied endorsement by the publisher. This is an unbeatable combination in even the most hotly competitive markets because of its virtually unlimited range, market reach, and highly convertible warm traffic.

        Traffic from articles is directed to niche-specific websites which offer additional, in-depth resources and a relevant, nominally priced Clickbank product ($20-$47). Buyers of these products are incentivized to optin for additional information and niche updates with a short report, generally covering how to maximize the benefits of the Clickbank product. This report also contains a number of other "recommended" Clickbank and Amazon products.

        Subscribers receive messages on a daily basis which includes niche information, tips, resources, jokes, and increasingly hard hitting promotions for the next product in line. Non-buyers are culled from lists every 90 days. The remaining active buyers continue to be processed, and promotions are incrementally increased to higher end products. As new buyers are added to the lists, the process begins again. This may seem like a "meat grinder", but in reality this model has proven to be quite effective in promoting hundreds of products up to and including Amazon products in the high five-figure price range. Nearly 60% of my subscribers have been buying regularly for five years or more.

        The important point to understand here is that article syndication can be an extremely powerful traffic-generation tool in its own right; completely independent of SEO considerations. As I mentioned in my opening sentence in this post, article syndication is a simple concept. Unfortunately in recent years it has been denigrated and misused by the misguided and nefarious article spinning crowd. Essentially everything Alexa and I as well as other professional article syndication marketers have written in this thread can be summarized right here: Quality articles published in quality publications drives quality traffic.
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      • Profile picture of the author tpw
        Originally Posted by myob View Post

        my own internal processing method is not recommended for even the moderately experienced. What I suggest is use this traffic to build lists of incentivized opt-in subscribers

        I am going to pry Paul.

        Hopefully, you will take the bait. :p

        How exactly do you "incentive" people to subscribe?
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        Bill Platt, Oklahoma USA, PlattPublishing.com
        Publish Coloring Books for Profit (WSOTD 7-30-2015)
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        • Profile picture of the author myob
          Originally Posted by tpw View Post

          How exactly do you "incentive" people to subscribe?
          Let me preface that by saying that generally readers of my syndicated articles are already warmed up and receptive to product recommendations. In this model, only buyers are invited to subscribe to my lists. Free loaders are not welcome, as explained above in my quoted post.

          I would not recommend using that method unless you are a very experienced marketer. If this is not used in combination with traffic resulting from a series of syndicated articles, conversions/opt-ins may be quite low.

          This is the reason why I recommended using the standard "incentivized opt-in" which is what I believe is a much more wide-spread or accepted practice; offering a freebie in exchange for subscribing to a list.

          Various methods of incentives to obtain subscribers are covered in this and many other threads. Marketing to freebie seekers is not my thing, but the idea I think is to send nice warm fuzzies over a period of time before hitting them up with your sales offer.
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          • Profile picture of the author tpw
            Originally Posted by myob View Post

            Let me preface that by saying that generally readers of my syndicated articles are already warmed up and receptive to product recommendations. In this model, only buyers are invited to subscribe to my lists. Free loaders are not welcome, as explained above in my quoted post.

            I would not recommend using that method unless you are a very experienced marketer. If this is not used in combination with article syndication traffic, conversions/opt-ins may be quite low.

            This is the reason why I recommended using the standard "incentivized opt-in" which is what I believe is a much more wide-spread or accepted practice; offering a freebie in exchange for subscribing to a list.

            Various methods of incentives to obtain subscribers are covered in this and many other threads. It's not my thing, but the idea I think is to send nice warm fuzzies over a period of time before hitting them up with your offer.

            Thanks.

            I was just checking to be sure, but you and I ARE on the same page.

            I have found only one method that can match article marketing for "warming up a prospect to your message," and that is recommendations from a trusted affiliate or mailing list manager.
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            Bill Platt, Oklahoma USA, PlattPublishing.com
            Publish Coloring Books for Profit (WSOTD 7-30-2015)
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  • Profile picture of the author Trivum
    Excellent info here. I've just come across this thread. Thanks.

    I've read through all of this (and several other related threads), but there were still a few questions that I don't think I've seen the answers to.

    1. Once someone is on your email list, do you send them your old articles (the same articles that are on your site and the same ones that have gone out to ezines)? ... If so, which articles do you send them -- very old ones or ones that are fresh? Either way, it seems that they could easily see your article somewhere else (especially if the niche is not that big)? I'm just wondering if that's ever a problem.

    2. Or do you send them articles that are only for the list (i.e. never put on your site and never sent to ezines)? ... Seems like a lot more work if this is the case.

    3. Another question about overlapping. When you have a new article, I guess you try to place it immediately in as many places as you can, is that right? ... I guess it's maybe not such a big deal if someone sees the same article in multiple ezines, but I was just wondering.

    4. When you send them an email, do you include the complete article, or do you just include a blurb and then link to the article on your site?

    5. And along those lines, when you send them an offer, do you link to it directly from the email? ... Also, do you ever send them an offer email that is only about the offer, or is it always tied in subtly in the body/end of the article?

    6. What do you do about a photo when using pen names? Do you just use your own with the pen name?

    Thanks again for all the great info and a great thread.
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    • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Trivum View Post

      1. Once someone is on your email list, do you send them your old articles (the same articles that are on your site and the same ones that have gone out to ezines)? ... If so, which articles do you send them -- very old ones or ones that are fresh? Either way, it seems that they could easily see your article somewhere else (especially if the niche is not that big)? I'm just wondering if that's ever a problem.
      For me, once they are on my list they are sent articles that have been posted from the beginning. This obviously requires an evergreen kind of niche; but I personally wouldn't enter any other kind. The article isn't the only thing they get with my emails though. I run mine in an almost newsletter like format, with different subjects handled throughout. So when they see the same article again, they still have reason to read.

      You don't have to worry too much about repeat viewers anyways. Fans that like you enough to subscribe usually do so fairly quickly, not after reading everything you've posted. The most likely scenario is that they see two or three articles more than once. Not too bad, and in my personal experience people don't complain when they see it.

      Originally Posted by Trivum View Post

      2. Or do you send them articles that are only for the list (i.e. never put on your site and never sent to ezines)? ... Seems like a lot more work if this is the case.
      It would be a lot more work, and why would we want to do that? The whole crux of article syndication is to leverage each and every article as much as possible. We want to do whatever we can to not limit a piece of content.

      Originally Posted by Trivum View Post

      3. Another question abo