CB Code: I am in SHOCK

[talfighel]

Ok, so I am promoting the CB code through Clickbank on my website and I personally have opted into the newsletter too through my own link just to see what kind of emails they are sending out.

Today, Saturday August 1st, I got another email from CB code and I was shocked to see that this person, when he needs to sell his own product, is selling another item on clickbank to his list ( From leads that we all generated for him) and what is shocking is that all the leads that we affiliates have generated for him, he is using it to promote other stuff from our own leads.

This is plain wrong and I am shocked to see this.

I will no longer promote this offer on my website. This is THEFT.

Tal

[Shana_Adam]

Yes I do agree with that - but do they have the right?

[talfighel]

Originally Posted by Shana_Adam

Yes I do agree with that - but do they have the right?

Why would they have the right to do this? This is THEFT. The leads that I am generating for them should make ME sales on Clickbank for $40 or so everytime someone buys in the future from my affiliate link.

Tal

[Kay King]

Why would they have the right to do this? This is THEFT. The leads that I am generating for them should make ME sales on Clickbank for $40 or so everytime someone buys in the future from my affiliate link.

From leads that we all generated for him) and what is shocking is that all the leads that we affiliates have generated for him, he is using it to promote other stuff from our own leads.

Just guessing - but is that included in the TOS?

If you generate leads "for him" how are they your own leads? I don't use this product but I expect use of the leads is covered in terms users agree to. I'm one of those crazy people who reads the TOS before I sign up for anything - and I've backed out of buying or joining several times when I saw some of the terms I was expected to agree to.

kay

[Chris Grable]

Am I missing something? You drove traffic to his site... They opted into his/her list... right?

[Marian Berghes]

I don't really get it, you mean the he is selling the product by bypassing your affiliate cookie or what?

[Jeannie Crabtree]

Tal, I am finding this to happen with a portion of the ones I am promoting and I have signed up for for their newsletter.

I see it as a person has an obligation to assist his affiliates to make a sale, but once the people are on his list he also has the right to offer other things as well. There needs to be some balance.

We as affiliates have to decide if we are comfortable with the mix of what is sent out.
For one cb offer I have promoted a lot, Once I signed up for the newsletter, I found the promotion of other products is excessive and on a regular basis.

I'm taking him out of my autoresponders as it is to the point of being in direct competition with the things I would sell and offer my own newsletter. edit - He is not spending enough time promoting what I sent people to his list for.

Jeannie

[talfighel]

Originally Posted by Kay King

Just guessing - but is that included in the TOS?

If you generate leads "for him" how are they your own leads? I don't use this product but I expect use of the leads is covered in terms users agree to. I'm one of those crazy people who reads the TOS before I sign up for anything - and I've backed out of buying or joining several times when I saw some of the terms I was expected to agree to.

kay

Kay,

When you promote something and the leads that you generate from your own HOP link on clickbank for any item, the emails that the company is sending out should promote their product.

This guy is taking the leads that we generated for him, and promoting other products on clickbank with his OWN HOP link.

That is just plain wrong.

I think that you are mistaken for the fact that it is HIS list and he can do what ever he wants to and promote other stuff and steal our own commissions.

When we generate leads for him from our own HOP links, if a subscriber buys the CB code after 2 months, the referring affiliate should get the commissions. This is how other programs work.

Tal

[Jeremy Kelsall]

I no longer promote products that collect email addresses.

They overwrite my cookie
Don't set the cookie at all
Promote them stuff that I don't get credit for

Screw them.

[Intrepreneur]

Originally Posted by talfighel

That is just plain wrong.



Tal

I opnened my inbox today and found that almost every email that was from a page I was sent to were promoting another product to me.

I don't see why it's wrong, it's business.

[Alexa Smith]

It's NOT "theft". Not in any sense of the word. But it's very common and most regrettable, of course, from the affiliate's point of view.

You have (apparently) chosen to use your marketing skills, efforts, time, money and energy in driving traffic to a sales-page with an opt-in, thus opening up various possibilities of losing your commission payments. That's how affiliate sales "works". (What do you think they're building a list for? Build your own, instead.)

To me, as an affiliate, it's really difficult to understand why people choose to do this. I can see no advantages at all. The downside, however, is all too easy to understand, and hardly a cause of "shock", I think.

There are 100 other products without an opt-in on the sales page. Why not just promote one or two of those instead?!

[Chris Grable]

Originally Posted by talfighel

Kay,

When you promote something and the leads that you generate from your own HOP link on clickbank for any item, the emails that the company is sending out should promote their product.

This guy is taking the leads that we generated for him, and promoting other products on clickbank with his OWN HOP link.

That is just plain wrong.

I think that you are mistaken for the fact that it is HIS list and he can do what ever he wants to and promote other stuff and steal our own commissions.

When we generate leads for him from our own HOP links, if a subscriber buys the CB code after 2 months, the referring affiliate should get the commissions. This is how other programs work.

Tal

Maybe, I've never spent the time to think this through but it seems to me that this is one of the unavoidable aspects of affiliate marketing. I'm not very familair with the process but.... If they eventually purchase the original product will you still get the commission? Is he doing something to over write your cookie?

Is he providing value in the newsletter for which he should legitimately expect some ROI?

[talfighel]

If I knew that when I sent him traffic from my own ClickBank affiliate link and he was going to promote other products on clickbank and HE was going to get the commissions, I would not have gave him ANY traffic at all.

This is his page where I used to send traffic to with my own CLICKBANK affiliate link:

www.the-cb-code.com/

So you guys figure this out.

Tal

[Sham Salih]

lol. welcome to internet marketing.

You basically drive traffic to the CB Code website in hope to get a sale from the CB Product. In turn a vistor opt's in to the newsletter (by there own choice) because they are interested in the supposed material thats ment to come from the newsletter.

In turn the newsletter owner promotes other peoples offers to the people on HIS/HER list.

After all newsletters these days are just used to cross market products (well most newsletters anyway not all of them).

This is not theft because the vistor has opted to receive information from the product owner.

[talfighel]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall

I no longer promote products that collect email addresses.

They overwrite my cookie
Don't set the cookie at all
Promote them stuff that I don't get credit for

Screw them.

I am with you brother.

Tal

[talfighel]

Originally Posted by alexa_s

It's NOT "theft". Not in any sense of the word. But it's very common and most regrettable, of course, from the affiliate's point of view.

You have (apparently) chosen to use your marketing skills, efforts, time, money and energy in driving traffic to a sales-page with an opt-in, thus opening up various possibilities of losing your commission payments. That's how affiliate sales "works".

To me, as an affiliate, it's really difficult to understand why people choose to do this. I can see no advantages at all. The downside, however, is all too easy to understand.

There are 100 other products without an opt-in on the sales page. Why not just promote one or two of those instead?!

That is what I am doing right now. I had to change the link to another product on ClickBank with no opt in form.

Tal

[talfighel]

Originally Posted by Sham Salih

lol. welcome to internet marketing.

You basically drive traffic to the CB Code website in hope to get a sale from the CB Product. In turn a vistor opt's in to the newsletter (by there own choice) because they are interested in the supposed material thats ment to come from the newsletter.

In turn the newsletter owner promotes other peoples offers to the people on HIS/HER list.

After all newsletters these days are just used to cross market products (well most newsletters anyway not all of them).

This is not theft because the vistor has opted to receive information from the product owner.

I am not new to IM. I have been online for few years now and am earning a full time income. I learn new things all the time.

Tal

[Sham Salih]

or you could just create a landing page with your own opt in so you can build your own newsletter base and pitch out affiliate products.

edit : never intended to say you where new or anything its just a saying . + I also learn new things about IM all the time

[talfighel]

Originally Posted by Sham Salih

or you could just create a landing page with your own opt in so you can build your own newsletter base and pitch out affiliate products.

I already have my own list of almost 12,000 opt ins. I am not a newbie here.

I just did not know that they do something like this. Thought that their job was to promote their product and when someone opts in and buys after even 2 months, I as an affiliate SHOULD get the commission.

Never knew that this was a way for them to build their own list and promote other products at some point and rip off their affiliates who did bring them these leads from their own clickbank HOP link.

TF

[Kay King]

I see your point and I understand it - I'd be frustrated too. But I still think if you read the TOS you'll find it's something you may have agreed to.

The practice isn't as unusual as you seem to think - and I agree with Jeremy. If your visitors are sent to a signup on someone else's site they are going on that person's "list". You hope he is including your hoplink in followup emails - but you don't know that. You may assume the signup is just a way to enable sending emails pushing the sale of that one product - but you don't know that.

I won't promote any product on CB that has a signup. I have contacted sellers in the past about this and several sent me links to alternate sales pages where no signup was included. Others openly told me that the signup is used to build their own list if the visitor doesn't buy from the sales page.

When you promote something and the leads that you generate from your own HOP link on clickbank for any item, the emails that the company is sending out should promote their product.

I agree that would be best - but I know it's not always the way it's done. When you are sending customers to someone else's page and they sign up on his opt-in - you are building his list. He controls his list.

The best sellers are clear in their affiliate info that they send followups with your link in an attempt to make the sale for you. Some do that - many don't.

kay

[cscarpero]

Happens all the time. If you don't like it, don't promote it.

I'm getting away from promoting the CB money making products anyway as savvy affiliates know how to "self deal." Hey, I do it myself!

The health type niches are a lot better about this.

[Sham Salih]

The best sellers are clear in their affiliate info that they send followups with your link in an attempt to make the sale for you. Some do that - many don't.

I think it would be a little difficult for the product owner though , Remember some products have 100s of affiliates. it would be a little difficult to cross match the HOP link that the vistor was sent with and the affiliate HOP link

A little impractical IMO because the product owner would have to send out 100s of the same emails to cater for all the affiliates.

[David_Thompson]

If you don't want to have the vendor follow up with your leads
then you will have to bypass the squeeze page and just go for
the salespage...

There are other ways to do all this...

--David

[Mike Hill]

That is why you first build your own list and capture the names and emails before sending them off to a promotion. When you direct link to an affiliate program from your advertising you are missing out on the lifetime value of each person that subscribes onto their list.

Once they subscribe to their list no matter how they got their the owner can promote other products, nothing wrong their. It is up to you to send followup for that product you are promoting so if you haven't built a list before sending them over then you are SOL...

You can also create your own landing pages, email follow-up series etc... and link to their payment page. There are a lot of mixed feelings about that but it's not illegal from what I can see (I'm not a lawyer). The product owner should be capturing his customers information anyway sometime after they purchase.

Mike Hill

[Steven Wagenheim]

Okay, this needs to be said because I've seen more hypocrisy in this thread
than I can even believe exists in this profession. No wonder I sometimes hate
this business.

Let's take a real world example...mine, so that you know I am speaking
from experience and not theory.

I generate an opt in list for 2 products I promote. No, I won't give the names
because I don't want there to be even a hint of self promotion in them.

What I can say (and he will come here and verify this I am sure) is that
Willie Crawford actually promotes one of them, gladly. He really believes in
it.

He has made quite a few sales for me of this product.

I play by Clickbank's rules and make sure my affiliates don't get cheated,
meaning the hop links are registered correctly and I make follow up
emails to the list trying to get them to buy...sometimes as many as 10 to
20 followups or MORE.

However, it is absolutely professional suicide to just rely on that ONE
product for making a sale to these people. Maybe they're just not interested
in that product but maybe they ARE interested in another product that I
have.

Therefore, I have every right to make pitches to that same list for other
products that I promote. Otherwise, I am not making the most out of my
list. I mean after all, isn't this as marketers what we are taught to do?

1. Get them into our list
2. Get them into our sales funnel with a lead in product
3. Sell them other products down the road

Please correct me if I'm wrong because unless I'm mistaken, this is taught
in every marketing 101 book that I've ever read.

Therefore, those of you who say that you won't promote any products
where the merchant is building a list, that means that you don't create
your own lists, correct?

Or if you do, that means that you don't have an affiliate program for that
product, correct? Because if you do and you feel the way that you do,
why should an affiliate promote your product?

To me, it's the same thing.

Now, if a person is building a list off of affiliates to promote Product X and
nowhere in that list does he ever promote product X, then that's wrong.

But to say that he can only promote Product X to that list is the biggest
load of BS I've ever heard in my life.

If that were the case, then you can take everything you've ever learned
about sales funnels and recruiting affiliates and toss them in the trash.

They don't apply.

Unbelievable...I'm almost speechless.

[Trader54]

Originally Posted by talfighel

Ok, so I am promoting the CB code through Clickbank on my website and I personally have opted into the newsletter too through my own link just to see what kind of emails they are sending out.

Today, Saturday August 1st, I got another email from CB code and I was shocked to see that this person, when he needs to sell his own product, is selling another item on clickbank to his list ( From leads that we all generated for him) and what is shocking is that all the leads that we affiliates have generated for him, he is using it to promote other stuff from our own leads.

This is plain wrong and I am shocked to see this.

I will no longer promote this offer on my website. This is THEFT.

Tal

You joined this forum in 2004?

You are in shock and call this "theft?"

Where have you been all this time?

[Frank Bruno]

Its your job as a marketer to know exactly what your promoting and how the vendor is selling an item your promoting. You should have did your DD before promoting so you could make an educated decision if you want to promote the product or not.

Frank Bruno

[waken]

This is what a large percentage of internet marketers are doing. Nothing new. And it depends on how you look at it. It could be ethical and unethical.

Generally speaking, if they re-pitch the same product with your aff code attached, and with their own code when pitching other related products, they are in essence, ethical.

But if they never attach your aff code when pitching whatever products to the list (including the one that you initially drive traffic to..) then, they are a bit careless or technically faulty because they would have expect and assume or rely to the cookie to stay at visitors computer for as long as it's made and credit the last person who left the cookie there.

Meantime, if they were to attach their own id when pitching whatever products to the list, it's obvious that these are nasty merchants.

But it's nothing new. I have come across a lot of these so-called gurus and internet marketers that are nothing more than a sucker.

P.S. But whatever it is, don't mention the product name. It's against the forum rule.

The main overriding rule for this forum is this:

If you have a problem with another Warrior, a Guru, or God, take it up with them directly. Not here. No exceptions.

[Dan C. Rinnert]

Originally Posted by Sham Salih

I think it would be a little difficult for the product owner though , Remember some products have 100s of affiliates. it would be a little difficult to cross match the HOP link that the vistor was sent with and the affiliate HOP link

A little impractical IMO because the product owner would have to send out 100s of the same emails to cater for all the affiliates.

Not necessarily, if you use Aweber. Check out this recent thread:
Protect Your Affiliates when using an opt-in form on your salespage

[Kelly Verge]

I promote a product where they've recently added an opt-in to their sales page. It's pretty in-your-face, and the free offer is somewhat of a no-brainer. When they promote their product to their list, I suspect that no commission is paid. My sales dropped off almost immediately.

Once I saw what they had done, I signed up for their list, read through their emails, then set up my own opt-in with my own content that basically replaced what they were offering. Now I get opt-ins on my list and I'm promoting their product via email. My sales are higher than before they added the opt-in, plus I now have a list to whom I can promote other products.

When someone from my list hits their sales page, it's unlikely that they'll be interested in opting in for their freebie since I've just given them the same thing.

My traffic, my list. =D

[Alexa Smith]

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

However, it is absolutely professional suicide to just rely on that ONE product for making a sale to these people. Maybe they're just not interested in that product but maybe they ARE interested in another product that I have.

Therefore, I have every right to make pitches to that same list for other
products that I promote. Otherwise, I am not making the most out of my
list.

Of course, Steven. Nobody is suggesting that you shouldn't do that at all (as far as I can see?). But there are many of us here who are not willing to be affiliates for your product, on that basis. That's our right, too, you know?

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

Therefore, those of you who say that you won't promote any products where the merchant is building a list, that means that you don't create your own lists, correct?

As a vendor, no. (I'm not actually a vendor yet, but when my product is launched, it will be without an opt-in on the sales page, because I can hardly sell a product that I wouldn't even want to be an affiliate for, can I? Well, I suppose I could, theoretically, but I won't be doing so.) I'll also be an affiliate for my own product, probably, and build a list from my affiliate-page, in the normal way, rather than from the sales page.

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

if you do and you feel the way that you do, why should an affiliate promote your product?

Absolutely. Completely agree with you, here.

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

Now, if a person is building a list off of affiliates to promote Product X and nowhere in that list does he ever promote product X, then that's wrong.

Indeed. And are you supposed to "just trust them"? I trust in God. Everyone else I deal with on the basis that I won't be an affiliate for them if they have an opt-in on the sales page, and that way I don't have to judge their honesty, which is a problem I don't need.

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

But to say that he can only promote Product X to that list is the biggest load of BS I've ever heard in my life.

As far as I'm concerned, he can do anything he likes. But without expecting me to be an affiliate for his product. There are 100 others that don't do that. Why should I give myself problems and worries when for the same money I can just be cautious and maximise my chances of actually getting paid (which, with Clickbank, is never exactly a cake-walk, anyway, you know?).

[Jeremy Kelsall]

Steve,

I don't want to go through and quote as there is really only one point that I want to make...

Sure, you do it by the books....

But, I've opted into a couple of these lists and the email that I get 10 minutes later is for someone elses product or for a completely unrelated product that the original seller is pushing...

Sure, there are people doing it the "right way", but there are plenty of morons out there trying everything in the book that they can to "get over". That is just the way it is.

Do they have the right to do it? Maybe, but as affiliates we have the right to say "screw you" and not sell their stuff.

Well, I guess I have 2 points...

There is another mind-set in this thread that says "well, if it happens to you - it's your fault because you are promoting someone elses product" - THAT IS BS.

There are a lot of people that are just getting started with things like Bum Marketing and such that have no interest or know how to create their own products yet. So, because they are new it's ok for some of these people to do what they are doing?

Understandably, if they add visitors to their list, at some point they are going to pitch other products...But, should they do it in the first or second email? Shouldn't they at least try to sell the product that you sent the visitor for before bailing on it?

[Jeremy Kelsall]

Originally Posted by Kelly Verge

I promote a product where they've recently added an opt-in to their sales page. It's pretty in-your-face, and the free offer is somewhat of a no-brainer. When they promote their product to their list, I suspect that no commission is paid. My sales dropped off almost immediately.

Once I saw what they had done, I signed up for their list, read through their emails, then set up my own opt-in with my own content that basically replaced what they were offering. Now I get opt-ins on my list and I'm promoting their product via email. My sales are higher than before they added the opt-in, plus I now have a list to whom I can promote other products.

When someone from my list hits their sales page, it's unlikely that they'll be interested in opting in for their freebie since I've just given them the same thing.

My traffic, my list. =D

Now that is the way to do it

[JayXtreme]

I only collect names AFTER the sale for this very reason...

The affiliate page on all of my products is blank, I'm not going into the right or wrong of it, just that I don't personally feel comfortable with it.

I've made thousands of pounds promoting affiliate products that have opt-ins on the sales page... and most of them didn't have an effective follow up. My money came from the pre-selling I did beforehand.

Sure, I probably made sales from the follow up.. but not even close to what should be.

Some merchants are happy to leach off of the hard-working affiliate, only to justify it in their own mind with some random BS.... it comes down to ethics, I suppose.

I'd much rather do everything in my power to give the affiliate cash first. An affiliate doesn't want to know what might happen in/from the follow up..... he/she wants to know how fast they can turn a result with YOUR product(s).. an opt-in can dramatically increase that, whether we care to admit it or not.

I make the majority of my income as an affiliate, so I'm in both sides of this.. so when it comes to looking after my affiliates...I operate in the way I would like it if I was an affiliate for my own product.

Peace

Jay

[mikeyman120]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall

I no longer promote products that collect email addresses.

They overwrite my cookie
Don't set the cookie at all
Promote them stuff that I don't get credit for

Screw them.

Solve it like this.

Send your traffic to your own squeeze page instead of direct to the vendor. Once they opt in to your list do you think they are about to opt into the vendors list a few seconds later. I think most will say "I already subscribed so I am not subscribing again".

You then do the follow up to them with your affiliate link in the email.

You get the credit.

Besides most people don't order on the first visit. They need to see your sales message 7-9 times before they are ready to order so the follow up by the vendor helps you. That's how I see it. I don't know about them overwriting cookies though. I don't think that happens with clickbank sites. At least I hope it doesn't.

Mike

[JayXtreme]

Originally Posted by Kelly Verge

I promote a product where they've recently added an opt-in to their sales page. It's pretty in-your-face, and the free offer is somewhat of a no-brainer. When they promote their product to their list, I suspect that no commission is paid. My sales dropped off almost immediately.

Once I saw what they had done, I signed up for their list, read through their emails, then set up my own opt-in with my own content that basically replaced what they were offering. Now I get opt-ins on my list and I'm promoting their product via email. My sales are higher than before they added the opt-in, plus I now have a list to whom I can promote other products.

When someone from my list hits their sales page, it's unlikely that they'll be interested in opting in for their freebie since I've just given them the same thing.

My traffic, my list. =D

w00t!!!

Kickin the numbers HARD, Kelly....



I love that kinda action talk!

Peace

Jay

p.s. Anyone wanting to know HOW to overcome this... Kelly just told ya how..

"Where is the chase?...... and.. can we cut to it!" - JayXtreme

[CDarklock]

Originally Posted by talfighel

This is plain wrong and I am shocked to see this.

Why is it shocking to suggest that if your prospect doesn't buy, and the vendor has to sell that prospect himself, you don't get your commission?

You didn't do your job!

The job of an affiliate is to presell the prospect, so the vendor doesn't have to do it himself. If you didn't do that very well, the vendor has to treat it like any other cold prospect, and it's every bit as much work. You get paid because you render a service, and if the service isn't rendered, you don't get paid.

[Jeremy Kelsall]

Originally Posted by CDarklock

Why is it shocking to suggest that if your prospect doesn't buy, and the vendor has to sell that prospect himself, you don't get your commission?

You didn't do your job!

The job of an affiliate is to presell the prospect, so the vendor doesn't have to do it himself. If you didn't do that very well, the vendor has to treat it like any other cold prospect, and it's every bit as much work. You get paid because you render a service, and if the service isn't rendered, you don't get paid.

That would be valid almost if some of these vendors "free report" wasn't more appealing than the actual product

[Michael Lee]

I agree with Steven. Here's my take on this issue. If they subscribe and the vendor promotes the product (promoted by the affiliate) FIRST through several follow-ups, then I see nothing wrong if the vendor promotes other products AFTER the autoresponder follow-up sequences to that main product is over.

But what the vendor must NOT do is override the affiliate cookie of the affiliate. The vendor must NOT also promote other products while the autoresponder sequence is being sent.

Aweber allows you to send only to those who have finished an autoresponder sequence through their "Search Leads" function, so I think this is what vendors could do.

[misterwrecker]

I don't feel that all affiliate pages with opt in boxes should be avoided. Of course there are going to be people "being greedy" and cutting off your affiliate link so they can get the whole sale.

I have successfully promoted products where there was an opt in box. The thing is the only way you will know what the merchant will do is to go on his list (like you did) and see how he is operating.

There are a lot of honest people out there and we shouldn't all paint them with the same brush.

[Alexa Smith]

Originally Posted by misterwrecker

Of course there are going to be people "being greedy" and cutting off your affiliate link so they can get the whole sale.

Clearly.

Originally Posted by misterwrecker

There are a lot of honest people out there and we shouldn't all paint them with the same brush.

I don't paint any of them with any brush at all. I just don't promote products with an opt-in box on the sales-page, and that way I don't have to try to assess their honesty or lack of it at all. Problem solved.

If anyone can tell me an advantage of being an affiliate for a product with a sales-page opt-in, when compared with otherwise the same product without one, I'm all ears (but I've been asking this question here occasionally over the last 9 months or so, and nobody ever has done so far).

[Fernando Veloso]

So,

- I promote produt A
- I send traffic to produt A sales page
- They place a new opt-in
- Visitors opt-in and get the free stuff
- 10 minutes pass and the owner of product A sends a email promoting product B with his HOP

And some of you think this is ok? Jesus...

[Steven Wagenheim]

To Jeremy and Alexa:

I completely agree with everything you've brought up, which is why, quite
honestly, I don't expect affiliates to promote my stuff and for the most part,
they don't. I think my gravities are like 1 or 2. I make most of my sales from
my own efforts, because I build a list.

Point is...I trust me to close the deal sooner than I trust an affiliate.

Why?

Because most affiliates don't presell like I do and like Jay does and some
others. Hell, every affiliate product I promote I have a review blog for and
send people to the blog before I even send them to a sales page.

Because of that, I will promote products that have opt ins because I
believe in my ability to close the sale even before they get there.

But absolutely. Everybody has the right to promote and not promote
whatever they want and you don't want to promote products that have
opt ins first, by all means don't.

My point was simply that not every merchant that uses opt ins is a crook
out to cheat affiliates out of their money.

I sure don't.

[mikeyman120]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall

I no longer promote products that collect email addresses.

They overwrite my cookie
Don't set the cookie at all
Promote them stuff that I don't get credit for

Screw them.

Hey all,

I have a bunch of clickbank sites and this doesn't happen when I test it. If you send someone to a clickbank site through your link and then someone clicks a new link that is www.domain.com it will not overwrite your cookie. You will still get the credit. The CB code is a clickbank product so you should be ok as far as you getting the sale if then person orders through an email.

As far as them selling something else while they should be promoting the product that will make the affiliate the profit well that is wrong. But like Michael mentioned above after the auto responder sequence is over you can then move onto other products. Seems ok to me.

Mike

[Jeremy Kelsall]

Originally Posted by Fernando Veloso

So,

- I promote produt A
- I send traffic to produt A sales page
- They place a new opt-in
- Visitors opt-in and get the free stuff
- 10 minutes pass and the owner of product A sends a email promoting product B with his HOP

And some of you think this is ok? Jesus...

Certainly not all of them do it that way - But, I've personally found quite a few that do...

They sell a $47 product on clickbank - Throw up an opt-in that gives away a "how to make 10K while you sleep report" so, you opt-in. They then send you an email promoting Guru Y's $997 course with their affiliate info...

I'm honestly surprised noone has created a product out of the process yet lol

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by Fernando Veloso

So,

- I promote produt A
- I send traffic to produt A sales page
- They place a new opt-in
- Visitors opt-in and get the free stuff
- 10 minutes pass and the owner of product A sends a email promoting product B with his HOP

And some of you think this is ok? Jesus...

Absolutely not okay. IMO, this is pretty low.

But to expect that merchant to NEVER promote anything other than
that product to his list is unfair.

What if it's a new product and he's finding out that it just doesn't
convert? In other words, it's sucking wind for him.

Is he just supposed to say, "Oh well, guess I can't make any money with
this list."

As I said, it is YOUR right to boycott any sales pages that have opt ins
first.

It is also the right of the merchant to sell other products besides the main
one he's promoting as long as he fairly tries to promote that product to
his list in order for his affiliates to earn their commissions.

If they don't, they stop promoting for him so how does this help him?

It doesn't. It's counter productive and it's illogical.

But some people just don't get that.

[JayXtreme]

Originally Posted by mikeyman120

Hey all,

I have a bunch of clickbank sites and this doesn't happen when I test it. If you send someone to a clickbank site through your link and then someone clicks a new link that is www.domain.com it will not overwrite your cookie. You will still get the credit. The CB code is a clickbank product so you should be ok as far as you getting the sale if then person orders through an email.

I think we sorta understood this little bit... but thanks for saving us all ayways..

[Scott Ames]

Originally Posted by talfighel

Thought that their job was to promote their product and when someone opts in and buys after even 2 months, I as an affiliate SHOULD get the commission.

TF

I agree that should happen. I'm not sure in what way they could track all that however. If someone opts into their list and they promote something, how can they make sure you get your commission. No cookie in that case. They would have to have something that tells the order system that you were the affiliate. Then, what happens if the same email signs up as a lead from your efforts and also signs up or buys from another affiliates efforts? Who gets credit?

If there is software that would track a customer and their origination for x number of months I think a lot of vendors that are honest would use it. I know I would. It would ensure affiliates got paid and keeping affiliates happy is the way to riches.

[Alexa Smith]

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

To Jeremy and Alexa:

I completely agree with everything you've brought up, which is why, quite
honestly, I don't expect affiliates to promote my stuff and for the most part, they don't. I think my gravities are like 1 or 2. I make most of my sales from my own efforts, because I build a list.

Point is...I trust me to close the deal sooner than I trust an affiliate.

I hear you there, Steven. Having had the pleasure of being on one of your mailing-lists myself, I would also trust you a lot more than the average affiliate to close the deal! Funnily enough, I'm one of the potential affiliates who would definitely not be put off by a gravity of 1 or 2. It's very high gravities that put me off. But this is a whole different subject perhaps for another day!

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

My point was simply that not every merchant that uses opt ins is a crook out to cheat affiliates out of their money.

No, of course; I accept that entirely.

[Jeremy Kelsall]

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

My point was simply that not every merchant that uses opt ins is a crook
out to cheat affiliates out of their money.

I hope I didn't give the impression that ALL MERCHANTS were doing this...If I did, then I want to make it clear - That is not what I meant.

Totally agree with you there Steve.

Jeremy